1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,760 Welcome to Drum Beats, the must listen to podcast for investors interested in Indigenous 2 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:07,080 investment in Canada. 3 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:12,120 Born from the Canadian Indigenous Investment Summit, the show focuses on the intersection 4 00:00:12,120 --> 00:00:16,760 of Indigenous economic strategies and investment opportunities. 5 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:21,800 I'm Mark McNacca and my co-host Robert Branton are joined today by Chief Derricka, Chief 6 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:27,120 of the Chiactan First Nation and the Deputy Chairperson of the First Nations Finance Authority, 7 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:28,360 referred to as FNFA. 8 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:33,920 He has been involved in economic development and finance, working to secure capital competitive 9 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:38,560 rates, close funding gaps, and explore new ways to bring global investment into Canada 10 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:41,400 through FNFA and other channels. 11 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:46,000 His work supports the growth of First Nations economies and strengthens the role in Canada's 12 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:48,160 financial investment market. 13 00:00:48,160 --> 00:00:52,560 Join us as we explore how these critical conversations are reshaping economic development across 14 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:53,560 Canada. 15 00:00:53,560 --> 00:01:00,600 Chief Derricka, it is such a great honour for you to be with Rob and I again. 16 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:02,720 Thank you very much for joining us today. 17 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:03,800 Good morning, Chief. 18 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:06,600 It's great to see you and thanks for taking the time to be with us today. 19 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:08,840 Yeah, it's great to see you guys again. 20 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:11,240 Really good to touch base with you and Rob again, Mark. 21 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:15,960 It's looking forward to this year's summit and looking forward to today's podcast to 22 00:01:15,960 --> 00:01:21,080 kind of give some insights and some input on what's going on in Canada. 23 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:24,200 Wow, a lot, right? 24 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:28,960 For a country that's not necessarily in the news, but just coming back to last year, not 25 00:01:28,960 --> 00:01:35,760 too long ago, about nine months ago when you came over for the first summit, that was really 26 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:43,680 great and it was a different time and a different world that we're in. 27 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:50,320 US presidency has changed and that's changing all kinds of dynamics. 28 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:55,520 Canada is going to be having an election soon at the federal level at some point. 29 00:01:55,520 --> 00:02:00,840 I think one of the other things is just in terms of the Indigenous peoples in Canada, 30 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:07,200 you can speak to this better than I, you can see such a divergence between Canada and other 31 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:12,440 countries just even the past number of months of how things are progressing. 32 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:13,880 Yeah, absolutely. 33 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:18,840 There's so many, so much opportunities that are coming down, lack of a better term, the 34 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:19,840 pipeline. 35 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:23,000 And for resources, for economic, right? 36 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:25,040 For resources, for economic. 37 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:27,040 Who paid you to say that? 38 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:28,040 Right? 39 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:29,040 No doubt. 40 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:30,040 Perfect timing, wasn't it? 41 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:31,040 Yeah. 42 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:32,040 That was good. 43 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:33,040 That works, right? 44 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:36,840 And I think they're there, right? 45 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:38,840 Part of it is these equity ownership stakes. 46 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:45,240 Part of it is governance and projects or it's a blend between two. 47 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:50,800 And we're looking at larger scale investments now and First Nations are de-risking these 48 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:53,560 projects and I think that's going to speed up processes. 49 00:02:53,560 --> 00:03:00,160 And we see, as you mentioned, the landscape of politics is changing the investment climate 50 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:01,160 as well. 51 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:05,720 Seeing that, as you mentioned, down south from us, we're going to have to start looking 52 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:09,400 at investing heavily into our own economies. 53 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:12,880 And that's going to be through a lot of the First Nations engagement. 54 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:15,640 Yes, which is actually a great opportunity. 55 00:03:15,640 --> 00:03:22,480 Somebody was talking about Canada goes through these moments that the country really has 56 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:26,480 to be almost put in a corner to make changes. 57 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:33,160 So if you come back to when Confederation first occurred and then during World War II, 58 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:38,520 there was a pivot away from being part of what was then the British Empire as part of 59 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:46,320 the Lenin-Lease program to be a conduit for all the resources necessary for the war in 60 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:48,160 Europe. 61 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:52,120 And then we had free trade back in the early 90s. 62 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:55,840 You were probably too young to remember that, but there wasn't always... 63 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:57,500 Yeah, I was a little young. 64 00:03:57,500 --> 00:04:02,680 It started out as free trade just between Canada and the US before it became NAFTA. 65 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:12,160 And I remember those discussions and Canada had been formed under our first prime ministers, 66 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:17,920 MacDonald and Laurier with a tariff barrier to protect the domestic economy. 67 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:21,520 And this was a huge, huge debate in the 90s. 68 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:24,560 And Canada went through a terrible time. 69 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:30,600 There's very few Canadian retailers left because they couldn't compete with the US. 70 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:37,280 And we went from a protected economy to an open global trading economy. 71 00:04:37,280 --> 00:04:42,200 I think we've become slightly more dependent on the US over time, but these changes take 72 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:46,240 place and now we're in a great spot because we're faced with that again and the indigenous 73 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:48,680 peoples have a seat at the table. 74 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:50,800 You have your rights. 75 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:53,560 You have your approach of how you want to do business. 76 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:57,940 You're coming in as equal partners, if not the lead partner, depending on what's happening. 77 00:04:57,940 --> 00:05:02,800 So I think this is just a great moment for Canada to be the country that it could be. 78 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:03,800 Right? 79 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:04,800 Yep. 80 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:05,800 No, I completely agree. 81 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:06,800 I think you're right. 82 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:10,600 I think that ideology that, yeah, we've been kind of back into a corner. 83 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:11,600 Canada has. 84 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:14,400 We kind of have to now go to the global market. 85 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:19,280 And we've been trying to do that for several years now on the First Nations front. 86 00:05:19,280 --> 00:05:23,680 But I think now it's now become bigger than just the First Nations. 87 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:25,240 It's a Canadian issue. 88 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:28,160 And actually, it's a good time. 89 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:31,560 I was on a panel the other night, two nights ago, and there was a lot of the discussion 90 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:36,960 was around supporting the economic growth of Canada and a lot of it's through First 91 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:41,440 Nations in that understanding what's going on in the political landscape. 92 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:42,960 We do have to look to global markets. 93 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:48,120 We do have to look to new initiatives and different avenues to accessing capital and 94 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:54,680 getting capital to Canada to really meet the investment climate and the needs of all Canadians 95 00:05:54,680 --> 00:06:00,480 and our economy to be doing what we have to do to protect our own assets in our own country. 96 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:02,580 Yes, absolutely. 97 00:06:02,580 --> 00:06:04,280 Agree completely, Chief Derek. 98 00:06:04,280 --> 00:06:10,400 Why don't you tell us a little bit about the First Nations Finance Authority? 99 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:16,560 You wear several hats and one of them is your involvement with the FNFA. 100 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:18,480 Yeah, the FNFA. 101 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:24,600 I've been fortunate enough to be a part of the FNFA for oh, five, six years now. 102 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:26,840 And was the deputy chair for the last couple of years. 103 00:06:26,840 --> 00:06:30,680 And now in February, I'll be stepping into the chair role as well at the First Nations 104 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:31,680 Finance Authority. 105 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:33,800 And in that work really excites me. 106 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:42,720 I think a lot of the capacity and the ability to support First Nations growth as well as 107 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:47,200 First Nations economic growth is coming through the First Nations Finance Authority. 108 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:51,920 We've surpassed over $2 billion in loans out to First Nations. 109 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:56,300 And now we just did a $650 million debenture about a month ago. 110 00:06:56,300 --> 00:07:01,940 And we know that with the investment climate in the direction it's going, we will be looking 111 00:07:01,940 --> 00:07:05,920 at doing debentures of that stature more regularly now. 112 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:10,840 And then looking at, you know, we need to, we have been accessing the global markets, 113 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:17,200 but we will be needing to continue to expand that Rolodex of our investors globally to 114 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:18,360 meet our demand. 115 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:26,000 We know the excess amount of resource projects and renewable energy projects that will have 116 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:30,240 to be done in Canada in the short future. 117 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:35,040 And with the political will that we will have federally and provincially, I think the opportunity 118 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:37,120 is absolutely there. 119 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:42,880 And part of the FNFA, the First Nations Financial Management Board, and these institutions where 120 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:49,320 I do work nationally is all about building that capacity for the First Nations, building 121 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:56,040 the internal controls, accessing the capital at a competitive rate, and being able to really 122 00:07:56,040 --> 00:08:00,280 capitalize and be involved in these opportunities that are going to be coming. 123 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:05,920 Because it's not just drinking from a fire hose anymore, it's drinking from the actual 124 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:06,920 fire hydrant. 125 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:09,640 And that's what we're seeing right now. 126 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:15,360 And really, we need the capital to be able to keep up with the pace and the demand and 127 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:21,240 being able to meet the economic growth needs of not only First Nations, but Canada. 128 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:24,660 Where are the investors coming from for the adventures, Chief? 129 00:08:24,660 --> 00:08:31,000 So we can't necessarily completely disclose who, but we have access from all international 130 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:37,240 markets from the Swiss, the Chinese, to the South American, to all over the world. 131 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:42,520 And really, now what I'm really looking forward to for this summit as well is now bridging 132 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:47,400 that economic gap and that capital gap from the UK to Canada. 133 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:51,560 And hopefully, that can be done through the First Nations Finance Authority. 134 00:08:51,560 --> 00:08:52,560 But that's not the only way. 135 00:08:52,560 --> 00:08:56,680 I think there's other ways that this can be done as well. 136 00:08:56,680 --> 00:09:01,240 And there's other exciting things that I've been working on back home and meeting with 137 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:07,280 individuals like the Hungerford Group, who have a new seven generations capital that 138 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:10,120 I believe will be coming to hopefully coming to the summit. 139 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:14,280 And hopefully, I'll be able to talk a bit about my experience with them as well, because 140 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:18,680 we began to discuss how we can work together in that avenue as well. 141 00:09:18,680 --> 00:09:21,200 Because again, it's really diversifying. 142 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:25,880 It's looking at the various ways that we can get global capital to Canada. 143 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:30,240 And that's not just through the Finance Authority, that's through organizations like Seven Generations 144 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:33,600 Capital, that's through conventional avenues as well. 145 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:36,760 So it's really now, I think you're right. 146 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:40,280 We've been backed into a corner and now we have to act. 147 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:41,280 Yes. 148 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:42,760 Very, very true. 149 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:47,000 And I think just coming back for our listeners and some of them, of course, didn't attend 150 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:49,440 the conference and have a chance to meet you before. 151 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:57,440 So your nation is based in British Columbia and the FLFA is based in Ottawa, is it? 152 00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:03,040 So yeah, my community, Chiactan First Nation or Chiacto, that's our Halkomelem name, we're 153 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:08,920 based in Chilliwack, British Columbia, about an hour and a half east of Vancouver. 154 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:13,440 We are in a very advantageous location, if you want to put it that way, for First Nations 155 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:17,940 community work, urban in that sense, where we've been able to capitalize on building 156 00:10:17,940 --> 00:10:22,960 our own economy and make sure we're building up our own capacity. 157 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:27,680 And the FNFA, First Nations Finance Authority, is a national institution and we have two 158 00:10:27,680 --> 00:10:32,560 offices, one in Ottawa and then one in Kelowna, British Columbia as well. 159 00:10:32,560 --> 00:10:35,920 And our board represents seats from all across the country. 160 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:40,160 So we have representation from each province or we try to make sure we get representation 161 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:43,440 from each province because we do land right across the country. 162 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:48,320 So we make sure we have that representation on the board so that we do have that acknowledgement 163 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:52,000 and that voice from each of our individual regions as well. 164 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:57,360 And all the institutions now that are really the critical factor to supporting First Nations 165 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:02,600 involvement in a lot of these projects is our national institutions that are supporting 166 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:05,360 the national economic growth of First Nations. 167 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:08,160 And that to me is making the biggest impact. 168 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:13,720 Which is huge because when we talk about the number of Indigenous nations across the country, 169 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:16,240 remind me, is it 500, 600? 170 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:18,600 Yeah, we're over 600. 171 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:25,920 So I think it depends on who you ask, but last was 603, 607 or depends on some are more 172 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:26,960 independent now. 173 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:28,920 So yeah, it's over 600. 174 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:33,440 And in BC alone though, we have 203 or 200 and someone as well. 175 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:36,840 So it's a different dynamic as well, right? 176 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:41,280 Considering that treaties were settled from the East Coast making their way west. 177 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:46,840 And by the time we got to BC or the settlers got to BC, it wasn't their priority. 178 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:47,840 Got lazy. 179 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:48,840 Yeah, I got lazy. 180 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:49,840 You're right. 181 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:50,840 Yeah. 182 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:54,520 And we ended up with far too many individual Indian Act bans. 183 00:11:54,520 --> 00:12:00,200 And it's created, you know, a lot have said it's created confusion, but I think it's also 184 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:01,200 an opportunity. 185 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:03,000 And I see it as an opportunity. 186 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:08,600 And we see some of the projects specifically here in BC now, we're bringing together, you 187 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:13,400 know, 30, 40 communities to work actively together on these projects. 188 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:14,720 And it's possible. 189 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:15,720 It's being done. 190 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:16,720 Yeah. 191 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:17,720 Yes. 192 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:22,120 And you know, when Rob and I have been talking about the conference and the summit and what 193 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:26,200 we did this year and last year and what we're going to be doing this year, one of the things 194 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:31,500 we've talked about is demystify, de-risk and develop. 195 00:12:31,500 --> 00:12:42,640 So demystifying is to explain to people, you know, how do you work with indigenous peoples? 196 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:43,740 What's the process? 197 00:12:43,740 --> 00:12:44,840 What's behind it? 198 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:45,840 Right. 199 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:49,480 And we hear a lot of negative news, not so much now, but in the past. 200 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:53,580 And you know, people remember, nobody remembers the good news, right? 201 00:12:53,580 --> 00:12:55,960 They remember all the bad news and stuff that came out. 202 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:58,960 So they have concerns about that. 203 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:02,200 But the whole process now is about how do you de-risk? 204 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:06,800 And that's by working with the indigenous peoples as partners, right? 205 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:11,440 And then it's developed, then you go out and develop the project, which might take five, 206 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:13,640 10 years, as you know, very well. 207 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:14,640 Yeah. 208 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:16,040 And hopefully we can do it sooner. 209 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:19,960 You know, Rob and Mark, I think it's really important to acknowledge some of the work 210 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:21,440 that is being done right now. 211 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:25,360 And we're really creating a template for what is possible, right? 212 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:31,000 And I think that's, and over these first couple of projects, of course, are the hardest ones 213 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:32,960 to get across the line, I think. 214 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:36,700 But I, you know, from that, I think we're going to see, you know, a process that's been 215 00:13:36,700 --> 00:13:40,600 established that works, you know, one that we're involved in right now. 216 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:46,640 We have 40, 40 some odd communities involved, and we've been able to set up more of a smaller 217 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:52,160 committee that is stick handling the negotiations on behalf of the larger collective group. 218 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:57,120 So acknowledging that to investors and making sure that the individual is looking to get 219 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:03,400 their capital to Canada, know that there is a de-risking factor to this. 220 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:09,680 We do have the sophistication now and the ability to set up these working groups and 221 00:14:09,680 --> 00:14:16,200 committees that are able to be the negotiators alongside, you know, the professionals that 222 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:20,720 are needed to really de-risk and do the due diligence on these projects. 223 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:26,640 But we have a process and a system that works for bringing together, whether it's, you know, 224 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:31,200 one community, 10 communities, 30 or 40 communities, we now know how to do it. 225 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:35,340 And I think it's only going to get easier and it can only get better and quicker. 226 00:14:35,340 --> 00:14:42,080 And I think we will be able to work in tandem to make sure that at the end of the day, sometimes 227 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:45,320 that permitting process is what takes the longest as well. 228 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:48,360 And if we're at the table, we can help with that as well. 229 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:49,360 Yes. 230 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:55,040 And we've had some other guests on the podcast who've talked about how much smoother it goes 231 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:58,840 if you go in there and work with the Indigenous peoples right from the beginning, they become 232 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:01,160 your partner, they'll carry the ball in many cases. 233 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:02,160 Absolutely. 234 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:05,680 And they're going to make things happen, right, because they have a vested interest then. 235 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:10,640 And I guess coming back a bit to the treaties, because I understand, you know, between 1701 236 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:18,080 and 1963, there were 70 treaties signed between the British Crown and King Charles is also 237 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:25,800 the King of Canada represented by the Governor General and 70 treaties between 364 First 238 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:27,360 Nations. 239 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:30,560 But now there's a new treaty process. 240 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:33,360 And how does that differ from the historic approach? 241 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:36,200 Yeah, I think it's challenging. 242 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:41,760 The new treaty process is more of a jurisdiction based process. 243 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:45,480 Of course, there's a land component, there's a cash settlement component to the treaty 244 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:52,560 process, but a lot of it hinges on more or less the divulgence of jurisdictions to the 245 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:54,360 First Nations communities. 246 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:59,880 And you know, historically, the treaties were more based on land or based on a relationship 247 00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:05,480 that was defined in an agreement and meant to be lived out. 248 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:10,600 You know, the intentions may have been good at the time, but I don't think they were 249 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:11,640 fully enacted. 250 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:16,480 And that's why you see a lot of the different court cases or the specific claims or the 251 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:21,440 various legal actions that have had to take place over the last several decades in Canada 252 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:26,920 with First Nations, because it's been challenging the implementation of the treaties in Canada 253 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:29,600 has been really open to interpretation. 254 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:33,400 And I think that's part of the challenges with historic treaties. 255 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:37,680 But the reality with historic treaties is a large land base came with it most of the 256 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:41,680 time, you know, wasn't necessarily their entire traditional territory. 257 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:46,840 No, but it's still they had, you know, at least an established land base where now if 258 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:53,880 you look in BC, that's part of the problem is no very little treaties have been signed. 259 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:57,980 And what has happened with settlement is now we see most of the time in treaties or you're 260 00:16:57,980 --> 00:17:01,880 negotiating for what we call provincial crown land. 261 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:05,920 And most of that land is not in in and around urban settings. 262 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:09,800 Most of it is in mountains or in uninhabited areas. 263 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:15,000 So we're having the challenge of negotiating for some territorial land back, but it's not 264 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:20,400 necessarily going to help us boost economies yet, like maybe one day. 265 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:27,960 And part of what my advocacy is, is it's looking at a different approach to a treaty relationship. 266 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:32,440 And a lot of the work that I do is trying to look at and more of an economic treaty 267 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:39,920 first, looking at how do we first start enabling and building and providing the capacity and 268 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:45,640 the toolkit to First Nations to ensure they're able to build up revenue streams, build up 269 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:50,400 an economic base, both on and off reserve and both, you know, involvement in resource 270 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:54,340 projects or territorial taxation, whatever it may be. 271 00:17:54,340 --> 00:17:59,140 And then when the nations are ready, they can begin to talk about the jurisdictions. 272 00:17:59,140 --> 00:18:03,320 And when I say jurisdictions, I mean, a lot of them are in the program jurisdiction basis, 273 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:07,040 what, you know, what the government is trying to divulge. 274 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:12,340 It's through health or children and family services or justice or whatever it may be. 275 00:18:12,340 --> 00:18:18,640 That is a lot of the treaty negotiations now, because quite frankly, we have some of the 276 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:24,320 national institutions that provide First Nations with the land jurisdictions are finally there. 277 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:29,440 You know, through Land Code, through tax commissions, through the First Nations Finance Authority. 278 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:38,720 So that's why for nations like mine, we haven't been as keen on talking about the new BC Treaty 279 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:44,760 Commission process, because it's more of a program jurisdiction based discussion and 280 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:47,860 not necessarily an economic discussion. 281 00:18:47,860 --> 00:18:51,560 So what I do is look at the economic treaties now. 282 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:56,000 And then we could talk about the program treaties after. 283 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:57,680 Right. 284 00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:01,000 And that obviously varies across the country. 285 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:02,560 Totally. 286 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:06,720 So many projects across the country, Chief, maybe you could give us an idea of some of 287 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:11,520 the major projects that FNFA in particular has been involved in. 288 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:15,800 Yeah, I mean, we've seen seen a lot of them over the last couple of years. 289 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:19,880 So maybe I'll put on my First Nations Finance Authority hat first and, and seeing from a 290 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:25,160 national lens, we've seen very successful large investment projects that we've been 291 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:26,480 able to support. 292 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:29,840 One was being the Clearwater, make that deal. 293 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:34,460 They involved a number of First Nations on the East Coast purchasing one of the largest 294 00:19:34,460 --> 00:19:37,600 seafood industries in North America. 295 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:43,320 And since then, what we've seen is that industry and that company, its growth, they've had 296 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:46,880 their best years since the First Nations have purchased this company. 297 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:50,920 And it's also de-risked some of the industry as well. 298 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:57,360 And we've also seen the stigma that came along with prior to the First Nations purchasing 299 00:19:57,360 --> 00:20:03,400 that, that industry, it was always a fight for fish rights or fight for access. 300 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:10,500 And now since owning and controlling the market, it's really calmed the societal differences. 301 00:20:10,500 --> 00:20:12,960 And we see that in just one of the deals. 302 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:20,280 Another deal is the Heysla LNG project and really what we've seen in that, and I'm sure 303 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:25,320 we'll hear more about this in London as well, which is exciting to hear from Chief Crystal, 304 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:27,560 who's coming out from Heysla, I believe. 305 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:31,160 And I'm really looking forward to getting to see her again, because I've got to see 306 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:33,560 her over the years as well. 307 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:37,280 And being able to hear firsthand as well the impacts that her community is going to feel 308 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:43,280 from that, but from the finance authority side, that was a massive deal for us to be 309 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:44,280 a part of. 310 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:53,440 A $400 million loan out from us and in Korea, it'll be up to a billion dollar deal. 311 00:20:53,440 --> 00:21:00,400 And really being able to see the Heysla take a significant ownership, I believe 50% or 312 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:05,000 51% of the ownership of the CDRLNG project. 313 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:08,640 That's the impact that that's going to have in their community is massive. 314 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:09,640 It's massive. 315 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:16,680 And it also enabled the Heysla to do their due diligence, to enable them to listen to 316 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:22,080 their community's needs and to be able to reflect that in the project and be able to 317 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:26,080 now have a community that I believe they're, they need to do a referendum. 318 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:32,240 And I believe they had 90% of their community vote in favor of this project because of, 319 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:34,840 yeah, like unheard of, right? 320 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:42,440 And really that to me is the biggest de-risking factor that any proponent can take today and 321 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:48,000 say that deal shows exactly what is possible when working early and working often with 322 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:53,240 First Nations because when you get 90% of a community voting in favor of a project, 323 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:55,920 that is as clear as a mandate as you're ever going to get. 324 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:59,320 And that will speed up the process, that will speed up the permitting, and that will speed 325 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:04,680 up all the bureaucracies that you have to go through to get projects like this underway. 326 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:09,760 And it will in fact produce the investors return that they're wanting to see and the 327 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:11,960 de-risking factor that investors want to see. 328 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:18,600 So I think those are two very real recent live and tangible examples of what's going 329 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:20,920 on across Canada. 330 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:25,200 And then even if you look back, you know, on an individual, so that's the macro, if 331 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:30,000 you're looking at a micro level from an individual community like mine, there's a lot of the 332 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:31,560 land back strategy. 333 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:37,480 So we're now I mentioned in treaties, typically we can only negotiate for provincial crown 334 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:38,680 land. 335 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:43,040 So what we're trying to do now is purchase land in and around our reserves. 336 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:48,680 So we're creating urban reserves so that we can actually develop our own economies in 337 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:50,320 these urban settings as well. 338 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:56,920 So I just did say the additional reserve process usually takes anywhere from three to 30 years. 339 00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:01,200 I hadn't done all the legal side done in six months and the bureaucracy side done in three 340 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:02,880 months. 341 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:08,680 And because of our capacity, because of our jurisdictions and because of political will. 342 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:15,920 And that to me is another investment opportunity that I think is going to be a fantastic avenue 343 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:20,800 for capital to be helping support First Nations economic growth and in turn support Canada's 344 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:21,800 economic growth. 345 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:26,040 Because what we do when we get these lands is we need to provide critical infrastructure, 346 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:30,280 we need to provide housing, we need to be providing, you know, the things that most 347 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:35,440 Canadians take for granted is what First Nations are catching up on and having to invest in. 348 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:36,440 Right. 349 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:37,440 So that's great. 350 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,480 And you've mentioned about Clearwater. 351 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:48,280 So at the summit, you know, we're going to have Chief Terry Paul over to talk about that 352 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:49,480 deal. 353 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:53,360 And as you know, with Chief Crystal Smith, we've had her as well. 354 00:23:53,360 --> 00:23:57,060 So that's she's been on a podcast and she's coming over. 355 00:23:57,060 --> 00:24:02,440 So we are going to cross the country, hopefully on the three oceans, right? 356 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:04,680 The Atlantic, the Pacific and the Arctic. 357 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:08,480 And I think so that's really good. 358 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:14,180 Second point is, can you explain a bit about what Crown lands are? 359 00:24:14,180 --> 00:24:18,520 Because you know, I think it's a very Canadian concept. 360 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:26,980 Okay, in the UK, yes, the King and the Royal Family have their lands, but the Crown 361 00:24:26,980 --> 00:24:35,600 concept is not really well understood and it's caused a long term issue in the timber 362 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:40,560 trade between Canada and the US because the Americans certainly don't understand what 363 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:45,800 Crown lands are because they think, you know, if it's government owns, it's worth nothing. 364 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:47,280 You know, it only has value. 365 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:53,160 Can you talk a little bit about what that definition is of Crown lands and how that 366 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,560 works provincial and federal? 367 00:24:55,560 --> 00:25:02,640 Yeah, you know, it's a good question, Mark, around Crown lands in Canada and provincial 368 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:03,640 Crown lands. 369 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,680 So you're right, it's very confusing. 370 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:10,120 It can cause a lot of bureaucracies. 371 00:25:10,120 --> 00:25:17,160 And typically what happens in with Crown land is it's, you know, it's forestry, it's mining, 372 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:23,600 it's national parks or provincial parks or it's land that's protected in a certain nature, 373 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:25,680 depending on what it is. 374 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:30,640 And some of the challenges that we have with the, it's underlying title of the Crown essentially, 375 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:31,640 right? 376 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:35,800 Like the Crown has the underlying title to the land and then there's provincial Crown 377 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:40,600 lands, so the province has jurisdictions through their ministries, whether it's waterlands, 378 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:47,640 natural resources, forestry, you know, you name it, various ministries can have different 379 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:52,760 easements or assessments or different overlaps of jurisdictions over one piece of land. 380 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:57,360 So it creates a lot of confusion, you're right, or it creates a lot of bureaucracies to get 381 00:25:57,360 --> 00:25:58,360 through. 382 00:25:58,360 --> 00:26:06,920 And a lot of the time when you're talking about tenures for resource projects or for 383 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:13,620 mining projects or renewable energies or whatever it may be, you're dealing with a lot of overlapping 384 00:26:13,620 --> 00:26:19,520 interests that touch various ministries, both provincially and federally, depending on what 385 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:20,600 you're doing. 386 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:25,240 So it does cause a lot of bureaucratic hoops to jump through. 387 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:31,760 If and a lot of why it's such a strategic advantage to working with First Nations, because 388 00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:37,800 Canada with UNDRIP, United Nations Declarations on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, and specifically 389 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:43,200 now in BC with DRIP UP, which is the act respecting the Declaration of the Rights of Indigenous 390 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:50,320 Peoples, it puts a lot of the decision-making authority in the hands of First Nations, which 391 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:56,320 is a lot of the studies are showing that a lot of Canadians are supportive of that in 392 00:26:56,320 --> 00:27:01,840 a sense because we try to be stewards of the land and try to make sure that when projects 393 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:06,200 are done, they're from an Indigenous lens and thinking about that seven generations. 394 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:11,960 So that's why it's so integral now to work with First Nations in and around any projects 395 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:16,440 that are provincial crown land and pretty much any project that's going to be done in 396 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:22,760 Canada, whether it's resources or renewable energies or mining or whatever it may be, 397 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:26,280 is going to have an aspect of provincial crown land. 398 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:30,640 Meaning, you will have to navigate the Canada energy regulating process. 399 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:34,000 You will have to navigate provincial permitting processes. 400 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:39,640 You will have to navigate certain bureaucratic processes that require First Nations free 401 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,280 prior and informed consent. 402 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:46,400 And I think one of the things that people don't really appreciate about Canada is the 403 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:51,840 fact that our provinces control the natural resources in the country. 404 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:55,440 That's not a federal jurisdiction for the most part. 405 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:57,280 Yes, exactly. 406 00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:00,600 It's a jurisdiction that's divulged from Canada to the provinces. 407 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:01,600 Yeah. 408 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:02,600 Correct. 409 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:08,560 And coming back in Confederation in 1867, one of the objectives of the British North 410 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:13,800 America Act, and we now have our own constitution, but the structure of that was looking at the 411 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,240 American experience with the Civil War. 412 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:25,240 And the idea was, let's have a strong federal government and weak provinces. 413 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,400 We didn't want strong states and Canada has provinces. 414 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:33,080 Actually, we've ended up with the reverse because the gay government has very limited 415 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:36,840 powers, foreign affairs, defense. 416 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:41,280 But we don't even have the same health standards across the country. 417 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:45,280 If you're trying to go from BC to Ontario, you need to make sure you've got your health 418 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:50,040 coverage because it's at the provincial level, I suppose the American experience. 419 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:54,440 So I think that's one of the other dynamics people need to understand. 420 00:28:54,440 --> 00:29:02,560 And I think that reinforces this, what I would call localization, because you have to work 421 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:04,920 with the local communities. 422 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:11,280 Those people as otherwise, everybody, you're from BC, right? 423 00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:16,080 That will come into your story in different places where necessarily in other places it 424 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:17,080 might not. 425 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:21,640 So you're a Canadian, oh, but I'm from Manitoba, I'm from BC, and I'm from Quebec. 426 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:24,680 And that all tells a different story, right? 427 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,280 Big time, big time. 428 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:32,840 And every province has a different political outlook on resource projects. 429 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:39,040 I think now, as we mentioned before, things are changing on the political side, understanding 430 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:43,680 that we need to invest in resources or renewable energy. 431 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:50,180 So whatever it may be, and British Columbia is very in an advantageous position to open 432 00:29:50,180 --> 00:29:51,280 up that investment. 433 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:56,180 And I think now what we've heard from our provincial partners is that the appetite is 434 00:29:56,180 --> 00:29:58,320 open now for those investments. 435 00:29:58,320 --> 00:29:59,320 And I think you've seen it in Alberta. 436 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:03,160 Alberta has been very open to resource projects and still are. 437 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:08,000 And you see it a bit more in the Prairie provinces as well with various projects that are going 438 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:09,000 on. 439 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:13,480 And you see a huge success in some of the First Nations partnerships that are heavily 440 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:17,640 involved in mining industry in Saskatchewan and in Manitoba. 441 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:19,320 And they're doing extremely well. 442 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:20,320 Yes. 443 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:23,080 In fact, we're having Denison Mines is coming over. 444 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:25,080 We have a strong, fantastic contingent. 445 00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:29,760 Yes, they're going to be talking about English River and their projects. 446 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:33,560 And there's a lot going on across the country without a doubt. 447 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,680 What about, you know, we do have provincial barriers. 448 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:41,480 You know, you can trade more freely in the European Union than you can in Canada. 449 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,400 And again, this is one of these moments, maybe these barriers are being addressed. 450 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:45,640 What about the indigenous peoples? 451 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:49,780 Do they, do you have a view on what should be done? 452 00:30:49,780 --> 00:30:55,000 Are you trying to break down those provincial barriers as well to have more trade opportunities? 453 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:57,880 It doesn't really impact the same way. 454 00:30:57,880 --> 00:30:59,840 Well, yes and no. 455 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:02,720 Like there, there is some projects that do, right? 456 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:07,160 There is, you know, linear projects that are coming from Alberta through to British Columbia, 457 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:11,680 where we have to break down those barriers to the provinces working together. 458 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:18,440 And I know recently, I understand the premiers did meet and did talk about how they can work 459 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:19,440 together. 460 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:22,160 Now, how real was that discussion? 461 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:23,160 I don't know, right? 462 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:28,160 I'm not privy to those ones, but I do think from our First Nations lens, absolutely, I 463 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:34,800 think there needs to be cross provincial discussions that help support the indigenous inclusion 464 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:39,760 and, you know, by border inclusion from province to province as well. 465 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:45,400 Because, you know, that is one of the only ways to opening up some of our corridors and 466 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:54,920 resources is having to work from some of the, you know, interior of our provinces, our middle 467 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:59,200 provinces that they're going to have to get to the coast somehow, right, for some of the 468 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:00,200 resources. 469 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:07,320 And that will require, you know, provincial discussions, you know, in multi-provincial 470 00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:11,620 leadership discussions to how will they work together to make sure that those resources 471 00:32:11,620 --> 00:32:15,960 are getting from province to the coast. 472 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:18,680 And that will require indigenous inclusion as well. 473 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:19,680 Great. 474 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:21,760 So we're really looking forward to coming back to London. 475 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:26,480 And this time, you're coming back with your freedom of the city. 476 00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:27,480 That's right. 477 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:33,320 Yeah, I guess I missed the sheep walk, but I'll have to come back for that one. 478 00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:35,360 You'll have to come back for that. 479 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:41,560 And you get to carry your cutlass or sword through the city and no one will register 480 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:42,840 any complaints with you. 481 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,640 And it's, we don't talk much about that day. 482 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:51,440 And these days, and I'm sure you're never inebriated, but if you were, you would have 483 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:53,720 the freedom to wander wherever you did in the city. 484 00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:57,320 I don't know once you get outside the square mile, what they do with you, probably lock 485 00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:58,320 you up. 486 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:04,920 But I'll make sure I bring my little booklet and make sure if I'm right. 487 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:06,120 And I'll stay in the London city. 488 00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:09,440 I'll make sure I stay there and I'll have it with me and it won't leave. 489 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:10,440 Yes. 490 00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:11,600 Well, don't worry. 491 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:12,600 Your name's on the list. 492 00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:14,720 So you don't need to carry your booklet. 493 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:19,720 You just tell them you have the freedom of the city and you will be looked after. 494 00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:20,720 That's awesome. 495 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:21,720 Yeah. 496 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:22,720 That's absolutely great. 497 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:24,840 Rob and I have really enjoyed having you on the program today. 498 00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:25,840 Great to have you here. 499 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:26,840 Yes, chief. 500 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:28,880 We really appreciate your time today. 501 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:33,840 I know you have a very busy schedule, so much appreciated and looking forward to welcoming 502 00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:38,520 you back in London in just a couple of months now. 503 00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:40,880 No, I really appreciate it, Rob and Mark. 504 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:44,040 I really enjoyed getting to know you guys over the last couple of years and getting 505 00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:46,400 to work with you and your team. 506 00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:51,840 And I think you guys are great advocates for what we're trying to achieve in Canada and 507 00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:52,840 with First Nations. 508 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:56,800 And I really think, I really do believe that these next couple of years are going to be 509 00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:03,800 transformational for Canadians, for Indigenous people of Canada and for the global investment 510 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:04,800 market. 511 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:05,800 Yes. 512 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,440 Thank you very much for being with us today. 513 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:09,440 Thanks chief. 514 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:10,440 Yeah. 515 00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:11,920 Thanks Mark and Rob. 516 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:15,840 Thank you to Chief Derek Gap for sharing his insights with us and thank you for viewing 517 00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:16,960 and listening. 518 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:20,480 If you enjoyed this conversation, be sure to subscribe and leave a review by following 519 00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:24,000 our YouTube channel at Drum Beats Podcast. 520 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:27,840 Don't forget to follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and other platforms shown on the 521 00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:28,840 description below. 522 00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:32,960 Visit our website for more resources and upcoming discussion. 523 00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:37,720 Check your calendars for the upcoming 2025 Summit taking place on the 10th of April. 524 00:34:37,720 --> 00:34:39,400 Thanks for listening to Drum Beats. 525 00:34:39,400 --> 00:35:06,400 Until next time.