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Welcome to Drumbeats, the must listen podcast for investors interested in Indigenous investment

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in Canada. Born from the Canadian Indigenous Investment Summit, the show focuses on the nexus

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of Indigenous economic strategies and investment opportunities. I am Mark McNacca and my co-host

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Robert Brent today discuss the proposed launch of the Centre for Indigenous Corporate Partnerships,

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an initiative led by Boston Consulting Group based on the work over the years in Australia.

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Join us as we explore how these crucial conversations impact economic development

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within Indigenous communities in Canada and beyond. Hello Rob, great to see you today and I

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guess it's good morning because you're on the other side of the pond. That's right, hi Mark,

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Sego, I'm back in Toronto spending more and more of my time here at Sames. Great, you went for the

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sun did you because we've had you know two weeks of no sun and was reported it's you know 50% less

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than we had last October, November. Yeah, no I've found it here and amongst the Swifties because

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that's the biggest news in Toronto at the moment. Oh the concert's coming up is it? She's in town.

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Oh okay here I thought you're working. Are you going?

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No, no unfortunately I don't have tickets for this one. Okay, okay well anyway I guess it's

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great to be back there and while we share a hockey team I think we're both Toronto Maple Leaf fans.

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Absolutely. You know they've won a few games Winnipeg's been burning up the league but as we

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know you know regular season doesn't count if you're a Maple Leaf fan right? Definitely does not.

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Good so when you've been over in Toronto I understand you've been at a couple conferences

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or events talking about the Indigenous world and the investment. Yeah absolutely I was at the

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energy roundtable conference yesterday an annual gathering in Toronto senior energy

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executives and the stakeholders saw it was a very good conference. Yes and that was primarily

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Canadian energy producers or North American. Yeah I know most of the focus is on Canada for sure.

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Okay and what were some of the issues coming up related? Well I was really enjoyed Chief

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Crystal Smith's presentation and discussion. You remember we spoke to her a couple months ago.

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Yes leader L.G. Fantastic. Yeah and so she was providing an update work is

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proceeding at pace on the Cedar LNG project. Okay good and so still a lot of good things

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happening out in British Columbia. Good and more people seeing that as an example of how to make

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progress. Yeah and you saw that on a number of the panels and then the very senior executive CEO level

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types and all talking about the importance of their Indigenous partnerships and a recognition

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that those sorts of partnerships are the way forward in talking about the benefits that come

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from those partnerships and statements about future intent and the fact that a lot of these

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energy producers, distributors and other stakeholders are not going back to the days when

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big projects could get done without Indigenous involvement. Yes and I'm sure it was a subject

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of discussion at the conference with President-elect Trump and a focus on unburdening the oil and gas

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industry with regulations in the US. Were there any implications you know perceived for the role of

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Indigenous, the Indigenous peoples in Canadian oil and gas industry and how that's going to

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affect with things south of the border because we basically almost have a common market in

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terms of energy in North America? Yeah and there was some suggestion that there have been discussions

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already with President-elect Trump's team, his transition team and some thoughts on what their

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energy policy might be. Some suggestions that they would like to see a North American energy

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policy and a superpower created with at least the US and Canada when you add up production

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in oil and gas between the two countries it accounts for something like 25% of I think it's

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global production and so if the two countries ever worked together with a common policy that would

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be a really influential force in the global market. Well given that oil and gas was included in the

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free trade originally between Canada, US and NAFTA and it was obviously there would be no

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differentiation in pricing into markets what are some of the other barriers that remain between

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the two countries? I wasn't familiar there actually was that many. It's not so much barriers as it is

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differences in approaches and differences in regulation and policy and if they could coordinate

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and there's some suggestion that the Trump administration is or will put some pressure

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on Canada to come alongside and join follow-its plan to deregulate make approvals processes easier

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to try to streamline permitting processes and if Canada and US worked in lock steps then that would

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create a North American superpower and energy. Yes. Or to rival some of the other energy blocks.

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Well I don't think anyone doesn't expect pressure to be applied if that's where President-elect

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Trump wants to go and you know they are Canada's biggest trading partner and you know we always talk

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about our American cousins and because we share a lot and we share the continent and the resources

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cross borders right it's hard to tell where the border stops sometimes unless you're flying over

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a plane and you've seen somebody's cut down a bunch of trees and that tells you where the border is

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but given that objective from President Trump or what we think is an objective in terms of this

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energy superpower in North America what is the impact the the indigenous peoples are

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seeing from that because by the very nature of an economic reconciliation in Canada

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they have a seat at the table now. Yeah so how that plays out I mean everybody

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bemoans the lengthy approvals processes and permitting processes and everybody would like

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to streamline it and there are lots of attempts to streamline the fact is in Canada these projects

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will not get built developed without indigenous consent I think it's fair to say now it's not

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just without some consultation I think it's consent and and material involvement and sometimes that

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takes time to get the indigenous communities outside. Correct and how about some of the indigenous

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community south of the border do they see what is happening in Canada as something they can

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learn from and progress with in the US I think that this has to be one of the key policy challenges

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to have an energy superpower in North America because it's now the law of the land in Canada.

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It is the courts in Canada have backed up indigenous claims and indigenous rights in recent years

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the UN declaration on the rights of indigenous peoples gradually being adopted across Canada

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and indigenous communities across Canada standing up and saying we're not going to allow development

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in the round near through our territories without a meaningful say in the States I don't think they

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have a strong court case lot to to stand behind and we are seeing instances of those US tribes calling

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us in Canada and and wanting to understand more about the way we're doing things now and wanting

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to take more of their material involvement and equity stake in some of these and some of their

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developments in a way that they haven't historically. Interesting well I guess it's a space that we'll

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be able to we'll be watching very closely as President-elect takes office in January and what

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will be the impact on energy and all kinds of other areas and you know given that Canada is

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very much a commodity driven economy that's obviously we're going to be very focused on that

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as we go into 2025. I also understand you're at another conference at BCG Boston Consulting Groups

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or it was it was a meeting could you talk a little bit about that? Yeah that was a workshop

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BCG to their credit has started an initiative in in Canada based on something they have rolled out

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in Australia over the last 20 years and that is initiative that involves corporate non-indigenous

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corporates we're open this case corporate Canada getting together and supporting by providing pro-bono

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services to indigenous communities across Canada to help with economic and social initiatives

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and so BCG and a couple of others Jay Wright from Arterra Wines now retired or rewired as he says

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Chief Clarence Louie of the Soryus Band in British Columbia and Brad Baker at BCG founded something

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they're calling the Center for Indigenous Corporate Partnerships and like I say it's modeled on

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something that BCG have done in Australia for over 20 years and over that time helped more than

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well it's into the hundreds of indigenous communities in Australia and garners some support

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in corporate Canada to establish this center and it was a really interesting gathering they had

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maybe 40 people together bankers indigenous leaders yes and others interested professional

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service advisor of these folks and some big names involved from the banks first nations

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and so I was a part of that because I am interested in that myself and we'll see if McCarthy Tatrell

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will get involved yes and so just coming back I think it's called the Center for Indigenous

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Corporate Partnerships CICP that's right and in terms of makeup it's interesting

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you were describing it was there and like yourself an indigenous person represent the corporate world

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or coming from that world is that what you found for most of the corporate partners

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that more and more the the represents who are working with the indigenous communities are

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of indigenous background themselves uh no we're still a minority but organizations in corporate

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Canada they're all finding that this issue is rising in importance they're dealing more and more

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with indigenous communities across Canada they're looking to hire a lot of this is in response to

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the truth and reconciliation commissions call to action especially for corporate Canada and sadly

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in the last week we lost Senator Murray who was the chair of the truth and reconciliation

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yes a great loss for all of Canada and really took Canada on that journey of you know leading

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through the truth and reconciliation process which was initially modeled on South Africa's approach

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to apartheid and he is famous throughout Canada was very well respected and was a very difficult

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time and process but he was able to bring us everyone together united through that process so

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that is obviously very very sad and it was it was very sad I mean for I got to meet him once

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I heard him speak a couple of times soft spoken matter of fact straight talker but when he spoke

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people listened and had he had an integrity about him and almost in the way that Nelson

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Mann delated when he spoke people listened and Murray Sinclair was a lawyer and then a judge

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and the senator somebody I was looked up to and respected and so there were tributes across the

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country on his passing which was way too soon but his work lives on and the path that he and the

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commission laid out and those calls to action live on and this new center is in response to to

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that call to action to corporate Canada to get involved and to do something yes and his firm

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was actually Cochran Sinclair out of Manitoba if I recall correctly is that yes I mean he did so

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many things he was a senior judge for many years and then Canadian Senate practicing lawyer involved

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in notable decisions and cases and throughout throughout his career yes so a great loss to

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Canada and I think indigenous peoples around the world because the influence of the truth and

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reconciliation committee really set a standard in terms of the approach yeah I think his his the

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work of that commission and the work that he and others continued to do after the commission reported

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to bring to light the issue of some of the past injustices that still have an effect today and

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recommendations on how we can do better going forward a lot of that work was was very influential

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and without it I'm not sure we were seeing some of the initiatives we've seen in this space in

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recent years okay so a great name that will resonate through history so Rob coming back to

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CSIP and sounds like a great gathering of different individuals there and you mentioned earlier you

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know BCG has done this in Australia it's kind of actually interesting because I think Canada is

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in terms of now that it's it's the law of land is moving ahead but these are great learnings

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brought over from Australia where indigenous rights have been an ongoing issue as well so it's good

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to see that practices those best practices coming across and absolutely was an interesting group

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of people in the room and in different companies and firms represented you had everything from

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the banks I mentioned RBC and Scotiabank were represented they had Mark the big marketing

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agency the Asian group Denso had some great Canadian retail names like Canada Goose there you go and

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you know we had the banks we had that and we had the Smith School of Business at Queens University

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so that's the business school I went to so that's great to see them taking the leading role and

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Queens always had a reputation for you know feeding Ottawa with thinkers on policy issues

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so that's really good to see as well yeah they're one of the early founders of this group helping BCG

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with the concept so they are fully behind it and their entrepreneurship school in particular

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is very excited about this initiative so well done to Queens excellent and so coming back to

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who are the indigenous participants that were there the community some nations that were

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represented include the Hiawatha nation which is near Toronto just east of Toronto constant

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lake First Nation northern Ontario First Nation and also the Cree from northern Quebec

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two of their nations from northern Quebec were represented we also had Cedar Leaf capital in

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the room oh the new the new firm that was just listed on the TSE well they just got regulatory

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approval they're not a listed company but they are a now a regulated investment dealer they're

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indigenous owned yes and majority indigenous owned by three different First Nations groups

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got the Squamish from British Columbia English River First Nation from Saskatchewan excellent

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and Rama from Ontario those three First Nations through their development corporations are eco

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partners and then Scotiabank has a 30 interest and so Scotiabank has helped Cedar Leaf get off

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the ground they're going to be an advisory service initially in capital markets focused on that

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capital markets yes and their CEO Clint Davis who is an in-eck from Labrador mm-hmm wow he was there

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and a couple of his colleagues from Cedar Leaf were there as well I hope we can get Clint

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and maybe some of the some of their shareholders on in the future podcast yes I'm sure that's great

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and what do they see as the priorities for CICP in terms of over the next year as they try and

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formulate this project this initiative the initial priority is to get corporate Canada

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supportive and involved and so up till now it's been a small group of founders I mentioned from

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BCG Osler's Canadian law firm also early involvement and so now they're trying to spread the word

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and create a structure to facilitate the pro bono work different participants will be able to provide

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okay we as to oversee that pro bono work to work with communities look at what to those

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indigenous communities need and then provide from the network within the CICP the services that make

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most sense so I think they've had one pilot completed at Constance Lake First Nation and

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there's another active pilot at the moment that Hiawatha First Nation yeah in both of those

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so Hiawatha and Constance Lake both in Ontario and both communities that needed some support

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developing strategic plans and and had some other issues needed the support and the expertise

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that CICP members could provide and so BCG and and some others provided some personnel

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who spent time in the communities helping develop and deliver some programs in economic

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development and and in health care great so sounds like a you know a strong initiative and I guess

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they're focusing on building these partnerships in a way to channel the expertise of the corporate

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partners in support of indigenous schools what exactly are the benefits that they see as the

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value for communities coming from this for the communities themselves yes well there's a lack of

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capacity in those in a lot of communities not not everyone but so the communities are lacking in

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personnel who have this expertise in a lot of the cases they don't have the resources to buy

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that expertise yet and so this partnership with CICP provides that people provides the expertise

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provides a place where local indigenous people can learn alongside the experts from Canada so

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there's a bit of talent development that's a part of this and then execution to get to get some

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things done okay and you know how is this perceived by those indigenous communities and nations who

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are in that group talking about because on one hand this is corporate Canada who you know hasn't

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had a great relationship with the indigenous peoples over time once again saying oh we'll come

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and help you as opposed to develop their own capabilities and capacity and you you're in

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both places Rob you're a proud Mohawk and you're sitting in one of the biggest law firms in Canada

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with McCarthy Tetral so is this seen as a positive initiative or are they concerned

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that they're not there as equal partners yeah so it's a delicate and sensitive

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issue first of all the CICP would only get involved when asked by a community to come in

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help so nobody is obligated to work with CICP and when CICP members do get involved they're

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going it's going to have to be done in a very respectful way and the idea is not for experts

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to come in and tell the local communities how things have to be done there will be a period

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of education for whoever goes into a community and they're gonna have to understand what a bit

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about that community and what the needs of that community are and what that community is trying

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to achieve and then to work side by side and try to develop solutions together and then to execute

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those solutions together it will be done has to be done in a very cooperative respectful way

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yes you can see the benefit that the corporate partners would get from that from a you know

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a way to take meaningful action on I guess what's referred to as the call to action 92

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okay and I can see how within those corporates you know certainly a lot of the younger people

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will see this as definitely what should be done to repair relations and strengthen economic

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relationship over term over time so you can see a you know a lot of winning points for corporate

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Canada for it and we're going to have to have these difficult conversations just as we're

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speaking earlier about the truth and reconciliation committee and the work that was done this is an

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ongoing process in Canada absolutely from the corporates from their perspective the and from

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CICP's perspective the idea is to create long-term partnerships so not coming into a community

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telling them how they need to do things and then leaving the ideas and the way it has worked in

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Australia is that these are seen as long-term relationships and partnerships and from those

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corporates being involved in this way does part of it is being good corporate citizen part of it

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is self-interest because as people are starting to appreciate it's the indigenous economy in Canada

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that does well then yes we're all going to benefit from that from the corporates perspective it's

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also a way to build expertise and learn more about how to work with indigenous communities

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we've talked about how this is a new space for a lot of them and a lot of corporations

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believing that they're going to have to learn how to deal in a better way with indigenous

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communities so this is a learning and talent development tool for the corporates as well

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yes I can see it as a from our own perspective from McCarthy's perspective if we get involved I

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can see that this is one would be a way to help recruit indigenous lawyers and other staff if

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we're involved in this partnership initiative yes I think it'll help us retain some employees who

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more and more want to see their organization be involved with some sort of social impact and

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wanting to believe that they're making a difference and then it's also just good

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what relationship building networking amongst the the corporates themselves who are all involved

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in sharing knowledge and know how our firm and I know many others are involved in different

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initiatives already providing program services providing funds for different causes including

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indigenous causes but what makes CICP different I think is it's it's not just putting money

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into a cause it's it's taking our skill set and our knowledge and know how and our relationships

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and putting those to use yes in a way that hopefully will benefit these indigenous communities

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across Canada yes and I think you know that engagement and learning of how to make this a

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success and we come back to the earlier part of the call we're talking about you know energy

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superpower in North America that would also empower everybody to you know see this as a platform for

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success across the continent you know obviously the world's changing in terms of how America is

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going to approach the world and relationships and I think this certainly gives you know Canada a

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point of difference to contribute to the conversations in you know in a meaningful way

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and I think the development of the talent pool will be really really important so I think that's a

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that's a great opportunity yeah if it works it'll raise up some future indigenous leaders it'll

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improve the way the corporate Canada works with indigenous communities yeah and that will benefit

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the indigenous economy and the Canadian economy as a whole not to mention the social benefits that

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come from improved economic conditions one of the speakers yesterday and one of the early

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founders of this initiative I mentioned chief Clarence Lilly from the Soilus tribe in British

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Columbia yes well known amongst other things for their very very good wines that would commend

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their wines to to anybody out there okay but chief Lilly talked about the economic horse

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has to pull the social cart yes and through Linton our economic condition facilitate and allow

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prove the social conditions as well and allows more social programs and he made the point that

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in every indigenous community we should see more people involved in the economic arm of what's

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going on in their community and if more people involved in that they're involved in the social

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side yes yes as anywhere and I think in in particular in this issue to you know really

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make economic reconciliation happen okay so Rob that's really sounds like you're having a very

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productive time back in Toronto with those two events and you know different perspectives on

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the same issue about economic reconciliation I'm sorry that you won't be able to get to this

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Taylor Swift conferences conferences let's call a conference that's how you get it through

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I need to go to this conference can this be you know signed off anyway I'm sorry you can't get to

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one of the concerts but I'm sure Toronto is chocolate block art the next week but I think those

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are you know great insights into how you know economic reconciliation is progressive so you

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know it's not a question that if it's happening today you have corporate can line up they know

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they have to deliver and be part of the solution to make things happen because no better metaphor

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that the trains left the station so if you're not on those opportunities won't present themselves and

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you know the indigenous peoples have suffered for long so unless they've got willing partners

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they're not going to bring along somebody who's unwilling you just won't get to play the game

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and you'll be set on this significant economic opportunity that's really shaping the future

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of Canada yeah well said and nice talking to Mark looking forward to speaking to Chief Terry Paul

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next week yes that sounds great as well and look forward to catching up when you're back in London

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and you can bring some of that wine you were talking about okay my best great thank you everyone

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today's discussion highlighted the Centre for Indigenous Corporate Partnerships

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a new initiative in Canada inspired by BCG's work over the past decade in Australia

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this initiative is aimed at developing connections between indigenous businesses and major corporations

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helping bridge economic gaps and create new opportunities see you next time for more impactful

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leadership and initiatives shaping Canada's indigenous investment landscape I'm Mark McNacca

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thank you for listening