WEBVTT 00:00:08.750 --> 00:00:11.429 Thank you for joining us today, Ernie Daniels, 00:00:11.429 --> 00:00:13.390 President and CEO of the First Nations Finance 00:00:13.390 --> 00:00:16.410 Authority. You're originally from Salt River 00:00:16.410 --> 00:00:18.850 First Nation in the Northwest Territories, just 00:00:18.850 --> 00:00:21.129 along the border with Alberta, which is fascinating 00:00:21.129 --> 00:00:23.670 as a former Bank of Canada Governor Mark Carney 00:00:23.670 --> 00:00:26.190 also hails from the adjacent town of Fort Smith. 00:00:26.410 --> 00:00:29.030 Is there something unique about this little enclave 00:00:29.030 --> 00:00:32.229 that attracts talent to the Bank of Canada? I 00:00:32.229 --> 00:00:36.369 think you can say that. And so I try to encourage 00:00:36.369 --> 00:00:40.950 our youth to, you know, keep their future open, 00:00:41.030 --> 00:00:44.909 their goals and aspirations. You may be even 00:00:44.909 --> 00:00:47.710 prime minister. You never know. It's interesting. 00:00:47.969 --> 00:00:51.090 I never did meet Mark personally, but his father 00:00:51.090 --> 00:00:57.049 was a principal at our school. Oh, wow. So it's 00:00:57.049 --> 00:01:03.149 the Bank of Canada Mafia, right? If I could say 00:01:03.149 --> 00:01:06.980 something else, it's... In Fort Smith, there 00:01:06.980 --> 00:01:09.760 used to be two residential schools, two hostels. 00:01:09.819 --> 00:01:15.140 And one of them was set up to host exceptional 00:01:15.140 --> 00:01:17.959 students. And a lot of those students went on 00:01:17.959 --> 00:01:20.879 to be leaders in the government in the Northwest 00:01:20.879 --> 00:01:24.439 Territories. Excellent. So can you tell us a 00:01:24.439 --> 00:01:27.480 little bit more about your upbringing and some 00:01:27.480 --> 00:01:29.540 of your background and how often you get back 00:01:29.540 --> 00:01:32.400 to your community now? What motivated you initially, 00:01:32.680 --> 00:01:34.560 you know, as we're talking about giving examples 00:01:34.560 --> 00:01:37.239 for the youth of today to pursue a career in 00:01:37.239 --> 00:01:39.340 the financial industry? Thank you. Really appreciate 00:01:39.340 --> 00:01:42.459 that question. It's not very often I do talk 00:01:42.459 --> 00:01:44.859 about myself, and I don't think a lot of us are 00:01:44.859 --> 00:01:47.939 used to that. I was born and educated in the 00:01:47.939 --> 00:01:49.459 Northwest Territories, a member of the South 00:01:49.459 --> 00:01:52.180 River First Nation, which is located in and around 00:01:52.180 --> 00:01:54.359 the town of Fort Smith, the municipality of Fort 00:01:54.359 --> 00:01:57.219 Smith, Northwest Territories. Just a bit about 00:01:57.219 --> 00:01:59.680 Fort Smith, like, just to give you an idea what 00:01:59.680 --> 00:02:03.239 my... upbringing was. It's a home of the largest 00:02:03.239 --> 00:02:05.879 free -roaming herd of bison in the entire world. 00:02:06.200 --> 00:02:09.699 Wow. It's the only place in the world where the 00:02:09.699 --> 00:02:13.159 endangered whooping cranes nest, and they nest 00:02:13.159 --> 00:02:15.580 in our traditional lands of Salt River First 00:02:15.580 --> 00:02:19.939 Nation, which is pretty good. It's in Wood Buffalo 00:02:19.939 --> 00:02:23.740 National Park, which is really close to Portsmouth. 00:02:24.039 --> 00:02:27.099 The Slave River is the main water source. It's 00:02:27.099 --> 00:02:31.169 a huge river. It has four sets of rapids, and 00:02:31.169 --> 00:02:34.090 it hosts some of the best whitewater kayaking 00:02:34.090 --> 00:02:38.949 in the world. And it's also, the rapids are home 00:02:38.949 --> 00:02:42.050 in the summer to nesting white pelicans, and 00:02:42.050 --> 00:02:43.909 it's a main contributor to Great Slave Lake. 00:02:44.069 --> 00:02:46.969 So it's very, very interesting. I come from a 00:02:46.969 --> 00:02:50.949 large family, seven boys, one girl. So we were 00:02:50.949 --> 00:02:54.270 big into sports. So team sports, team events 00:02:54.270 --> 00:02:57.509 were all important, I think. Those team sports 00:02:57.509 --> 00:03:01.930 really help you as you get into future life and 00:03:01.930 --> 00:03:06.229 all the activities and things that you end up 00:03:06.229 --> 00:03:08.610 doing. You need a good team if you want to win. 00:03:08.889 --> 00:03:11.229 And so that's what I've been really fortunate 00:03:11.229 --> 00:03:15.870 to be involved in. I'm a musician myself as well. 00:03:16.430 --> 00:03:19.310 Played in a rock and roll band in the 70s with 00:03:19.310 --> 00:03:24.009 my brother and my cousin. So we had a pretty 00:03:24.009 --> 00:03:27.300 good band going back then. It's a small town, 00:03:27.379 --> 00:03:30.139 like 2 ,500 people, still 2 ,500 people today. 00:03:31.120 --> 00:03:33.379 In my early years, there was no road access, 00:03:33.500 --> 00:03:36.819 so everybody got to know everybody. We knew everybody. 00:03:37.139 --> 00:03:40.280 Everybody knew what everybody was doing. I do 00:03:40.280 --> 00:03:42.860 remember early years, without running water, 00:03:42.979 --> 00:03:44.979 we had to go and get our water from the town 00:03:44.979 --> 00:03:48.259 pump and those kind of things. It was really 00:03:48.259 --> 00:03:52.439 good when we got water. I think it was a good 00:03:52.439 --> 00:03:57.310 backdrop to grow up in. really feel what living 00:03:57.310 --> 00:04:00.590 without was, like living without water and those 00:04:00.590 --> 00:04:03.270 kind of things. And really appreciating when 00:04:03.270 --> 00:04:05.669 you do have that, because, you know, some of 00:04:05.669 --> 00:04:08.330 our communities in Canada suffer from a lot of 00:04:08.330 --> 00:04:11.189 water issues. So I have a really good appreciation 00:04:11.189 --> 00:04:14.610 of that. So it's really helped me in all my endeavors 00:04:14.610 --> 00:04:18.009 and my career and everything I've done. It's 00:04:18.009 --> 00:04:21.319 been a really good springboarding for that. Great. 00:04:21.360 --> 00:04:23.480 Well, so what instrument did you play or were 00:04:23.480 --> 00:04:25.100 you the lead singer? Sorry, we're going to go 00:04:25.100 --> 00:04:27.160 through this in a bit more detail. No, I wasn't 00:04:27.160 --> 00:04:29.500 the lead singer. I was a drummer, talking about 00:04:29.500 --> 00:04:32.680 drums, like the drum beat. Yes. I was a drummer 00:04:32.680 --> 00:04:36.620 and I did background vocals. It was fun times. 00:04:36.920 --> 00:04:40.199 And okay, now you talked about team sports. So 00:04:40.199 --> 00:04:42.600 what type of team sports were you playing? So 00:04:42.600 --> 00:04:45.959 we played hockey. Of course, you know, just about 00:04:45.959 --> 00:04:48.259 all Canadian communities have hockey in their 00:04:48.259 --> 00:04:51.560 background. We played fastball, played baseball 00:04:51.560 --> 00:04:55.800 when we were really young. With fastball, we 00:04:55.800 --> 00:04:58.560 traveled around a lot because our team was primarily 00:04:58.560 --> 00:05:01.759 Indigenous people. So there was six of us from 00:05:01.759 --> 00:05:09.670 our family on the team. So we travel into the 00:05:09.670 --> 00:05:11.730 United States for tournaments and to Western 00:05:11.730 --> 00:05:14.509 Canada and went to a lot of the national tournaments. 00:05:14.629 --> 00:05:17.170 So those things played, I don't know if you ever 00:05:17.170 --> 00:05:22.730 heard of the sport broomball, but yeah, we played 00:05:22.730 --> 00:05:26.009 that, you know, recently, like I went recently, 00:05:26.069 --> 00:05:28.850 but maybe about 30 years ago, I took up golf 00:05:28.850 --> 00:05:31.870 and fell in love with it and still continue. 00:05:32.490 --> 00:05:36.310 to play today something i enjoy great great well 00:05:36.310 --> 00:05:38.410 it sounds like ernie it sounds like you spent 00:05:38.410 --> 00:05:40.850 all of your school your young school years in 00:05:40.850 --> 00:05:43.970 uh salt river yeah fort smith yeah yeah salt 00:05:43.970 --> 00:05:46.649 river really didn't have a physical reserve at 00:05:46.649 --> 00:05:49.389 the time that they they were promised back in 00:05:49.389 --> 00:05:53.470 1921 but the federal government uh failed to 00:05:53.470 --> 00:05:58.629 deliver and just up in i think 1990 or 2000 is 00:05:58.629 --> 00:06:01.639 when We did treaty land entitlement and got a 00:06:01.639 --> 00:06:03.660 reserve. And so we're trying to build up our 00:06:03.660 --> 00:06:06.720 reserve and it's, it's a chore. Like if you don't 00:06:06.720 --> 00:06:11.220 have physical assets and on a reserve, it's really 00:06:11.220 --> 00:06:13.439 difficult to get the support from the federal 00:06:13.439 --> 00:06:16.139 government because their, their funding arrangements 00:06:16.139 --> 00:06:19.250 are just not. made for those type of situations. 00:06:19.370 --> 00:06:21.230 And it's unfortunate. We have a lot of nations 00:06:21.230 --> 00:06:24.509 that encounter that in Canada today. So it's 00:06:24.509 --> 00:06:26.269 one of the things that the government needs to 00:06:26.269 --> 00:06:28.829 look at. It's really changing their funding arrangements 00:06:28.829 --> 00:06:30.829 to help these nations get off the ground and 00:06:30.829 --> 00:06:33.730 going because otherwise it's a struggle. Yes. 00:06:33.790 --> 00:06:36.949 Moving on a bit, you know, to your career, you 00:06:36.949 --> 00:06:40.569 know, and you've led, I guess, FNFA since 2012. 00:06:41.170 --> 00:06:43.029 You know, you talked about the importance of 00:06:43.029 --> 00:06:44.990 teamwork. What were some of your key milestones 00:06:44.990 --> 00:06:47.990 or turning points in your career? that you've 00:06:47.990 --> 00:06:51.350 led you to where you are today? If I can go just 00:06:51.350 --> 00:06:54.829 a little bit before the FNFA, because that's 00:06:54.829 --> 00:06:58.110 where a bulk of my work experience came from. 00:06:58.230 --> 00:07:00.750 I graduated high school, and when I came out 00:07:00.750 --> 00:07:03.189 of high school, I wasn't too sure on a future, 00:07:03.310 --> 00:07:06.410 what I wanted to do or anything. So a job came 00:07:06.410 --> 00:07:09.769 available, working with Environment Canada. It's 00:07:09.769 --> 00:07:12.490 a long name that a lot of people kind of look 00:07:12.490 --> 00:07:14.949 at me, but what is that? So it's a hydrometric 00:07:14.949 --> 00:07:18.959 surveys technician. So what it did was we took 00:07:18.959 --> 00:07:21.620 inventory of rivers and lakes throughout the 00:07:21.620 --> 00:07:23.540 entire Northwest Territories when it was one 00:07:23.540 --> 00:07:27.939 big territory. Wow. So I got to see a lot of 00:07:27.939 --> 00:07:30.660 northern Canada in the wilderness, you know, 00:07:30.680 --> 00:07:33.660 into some really beautiful places. I got to see 00:07:33.660 --> 00:07:36.040 a lot of wildlife, but actually really learned 00:07:36.040 --> 00:07:38.939 a lot from that as well because it was highly 00:07:38.939 --> 00:07:42.050 technical and very mathematical. When you're 00:07:42.050 --> 00:07:45.129 measuring cubic feet per second on rivers like 00:07:45.129 --> 00:07:47.689 the Slade River and other rivers, it was very 00:07:47.689 --> 00:07:49.870 unique. But there was no opportunities there 00:07:49.870 --> 00:07:52.329 to advance because, you know, you got 300 people 00:07:52.329 --> 00:07:56.509 waiting for the supervisor to retire. It's a 00:07:56.509 --> 00:08:01.189 chance of moving up. So that's when I started 00:08:01.189 --> 00:08:04.269 looking for other opportunities. And I was really 00:08:04.269 --> 00:08:07.120 fortunate that in... In Fort Smith, at the time, 00:08:07.120 --> 00:08:09.220 the government in Northwest Territories was setting 00:08:09.220 --> 00:08:12.220 up a new program called Public and Business Administration. 00:08:12.560 --> 00:08:15.279 It was at the time, Tabatcha College. Tabatcha 00:08:15.279 --> 00:08:19.319 is a Dene name. I took that. And lo and behold, 00:08:19.579 --> 00:08:23.259 I was amazed on how well I did with accounting. 00:08:23.660 --> 00:08:26.199 I never took accounting before. And so that's 00:08:26.199 --> 00:08:30.360 when I decided to become an accountant. So that's 00:08:30.360 --> 00:08:32.759 what I did. I went to the CGA program. You know, 00:08:32.779 --> 00:08:35.629 now they're all merged in Canada. Yeah, so I 00:08:35.629 --> 00:08:37.850 did DAC while working at the same time, which 00:08:37.850 --> 00:08:40.909 was really, really difficult. Did some accelerated 00:08:40.909 --> 00:08:43.250 accounting courses, but managed to get through 00:08:43.250 --> 00:08:46.710 that. And at the time when I got my designation, 00:08:47.009 --> 00:08:50.370 there was another First Nation individual and 00:08:50.370 --> 00:08:52.590 myself that graduated when the North was here. 00:08:52.610 --> 00:08:55.730 But I think there was just a handful of Indigenous 00:08:55.730 --> 00:08:58.049 professional accountants in Canada at the time 00:08:58.049 --> 00:09:01.009 when I got my designation. So we were breaking 00:09:01.009 --> 00:09:04.210 new ground for sure and becoming really... you 00:09:04.210 --> 00:09:06.269 know, more professional other than lawyers, because 00:09:06.269 --> 00:09:07.909 there's a lot of lawyers, a lot of professional 00:09:07.909 --> 00:09:13.730 lawyers and indigenous lawyers. Sorry, Rob. Can't 00:09:13.730 --> 00:09:18.090 have too many of those. So not enough accountants, 00:09:18.090 --> 00:09:20.570 not enough of us to do the finance work that 00:09:20.570 --> 00:09:24.909 really is important, right? So then I got that 00:09:24.909 --> 00:09:26.509 and I went into public practice for a while. 00:09:26.610 --> 00:09:29.710 Then I actually worked for a few development 00:09:29.710 --> 00:09:33.309 corporations. More in the real estate acquisition 00:09:33.309 --> 00:09:36.669 of existing businesses and really unique kind 00:09:36.669 --> 00:09:38.970 of things in the Northwest Territories. A little 00:09:38.970 --> 00:09:41.250 bit different than Southern Canada. We actually 00:09:41.250 --> 00:09:45.409 partnered with Plumbers Lodges out of Winnipeg 00:09:45.409 --> 00:09:48.070 to buy up all the lodges on Burberry Lake. It 00:09:48.070 --> 00:09:52.610 was a unique experience. And yeah, so during 00:09:52.610 --> 00:09:55.309 that time, I obviously started getting a lot 00:09:55.309 --> 00:09:58.129 of experience and it was being noticed by government 00:09:58.129 --> 00:10:01.289 Northwest Territories. And I was appointed to 00:10:01.289 --> 00:10:03.529 the Northwest Territories Development Corporation. 00:10:03.710 --> 00:10:05.990 It was a crown corporation of the government. 00:10:06.009 --> 00:10:08.610 It was more of an economic development vehicle 00:10:08.610 --> 00:10:11.629 to try to get economic activities in all the 00:10:11.629 --> 00:10:13.769 communities in the territories, including Nunavut, 00:10:13.769 --> 00:10:17.169 which was part of a territory then. So that was 00:10:17.169 --> 00:10:22.330 really unique. Also got appointed to the chair 00:10:22.330 --> 00:10:25.409 of the Legislative Assembly Building Society. 00:10:25.750 --> 00:10:30.129 So it's a mouthful. Back in the 90s, the government 00:10:30.129 --> 00:10:33.330 in Northwest Territories used to go from community 00:10:33.330 --> 00:10:36.370 to community to have their legislative assembly. 00:10:36.629 --> 00:10:38.690 So they'd be traveling around. They never had 00:10:38.690 --> 00:10:41.009 a permanent home. And if they were in Yellowneck, 00:10:41.090 --> 00:10:43.570 they operated out of a hotel. So they decided 00:10:43.570 --> 00:10:47.049 to build a building, a beautiful structure. And 00:10:47.049 --> 00:10:49.769 I was fortunate enough to get on that board. 00:10:50.269 --> 00:10:53.629 I wasn't the chair right away. A former commissioner 00:10:53.629 --> 00:10:56.730 was the chair, and I got to know him really well. 00:10:57.129 --> 00:11:00.029 And when he decided to leave, he recommended 00:11:00.029 --> 00:11:02.409 I become the chair. And so I became the chair. 00:11:02.549 --> 00:11:06.149 But it was my first introduction to the financial 00:11:06.149 --> 00:11:10.850 markets. We actually raised money, the society 00:11:10.850 --> 00:11:14.850 did, by issuing some investment vehicles to residents 00:11:14.850 --> 00:11:17.429 of the Northwest Territories to buy an investment 00:11:17.429 --> 00:11:20.110 into this building. So it was a very unique structure 00:11:20.110 --> 00:11:23.230 that was set up. So it really showed me the power 00:11:23.230 --> 00:11:26.309 of leveraging and utilizing revenues from... 00:11:26.490 --> 00:11:29.289 your people, your population, and so forth. That 00:11:29.289 --> 00:11:33.049 was a good introduction to that. Then I found 00:11:33.049 --> 00:11:36.129 my way to Ottawa. I don't know if you know about 00:11:36.129 --> 00:11:38.389 the Royal Commission on Aboriginal People that 00:11:38.389 --> 00:11:43.309 was done in the 90s and kind of wrapped up the 00:11:43.309 --> 00:11:46.269 90s. There was a recommendation out of there 00:11:46.269 --> 00:11:49.789 to set up a healing foundation. So the government 00:11:49.789 --> 00:11:53.399 had set up... aboriginal healing foundation funded 00:11:53.399 --> 00:11:57.440 it with 350 million dollars to address the legacy 00:11:57.440 --> 00:12:00.340 of the physical and sexual abuse across the country 00:12:00.340 --> 00:12:03.259 so the whole purpose was to fund communities 00:12:03.259 --> 00:12:08.019 to do healing programs and so i got recruited 00:12:08.019 --> 00:12:11.179 and i was really interested it would be the first 00:12:11.179 --> 00:12:13.740 time that i'd be working with the budget of that 00:12:13.740 --> 00:12:17.379 size and so that's what intrigued me and uh i 00:12:17.379 --> 00:12:20.320 was fortunate enough to be selected as a director 00:12:20.320 --> 00:12:23.799 of finance And we started working with that and 00:12:23.799 --> 00:12:27.679 got more into the markets, the capital markets, 00:12:27.840 --> 00:12:31.980 kind of like, but not fully. We set up a strip 00:12:31.980 --> 00:12:35.720 bond portfolio to try to grow the $350 million, 00:12:36.240 --> 00:12:39.980 set up a program with the money to increase a 00:12:39.980 --> 00:12:43.659 certain amount with a little bit more risk, more 00:12:43.659 --> 00:12:46.360 in the balanced portfolio kind of arrangement. 00:12:47.019 --> 00:12:49.460 And it worked really well. We earned $100 million 00:12:49.460 --> 00:12:54.299 in addition to the $350 million and went a long 00:12:54.299 --> 00:12:57.360 ways. We managed to keep our administration to 00:12:57.360 --> 00:13:01.679 15 % of the fund. And really, it was highly successful 00:13:01.679 --> 00:13:05.820 and had no failures. And really, it did a lot 00:13:05.820 --> 00:13:10.220 of healing. And I got to travel around and listen 00:13:10.220 --> 00:13:13.360 to the stories and listen and meet people. So 00:13:13.360 --> 00:13:17.320 I started to develop. a really good network of 00:13:17.320 --> 00:13:20.320 contacts and individuals. It's really important 00:13:20.320 --> 00:13:24.240 if you're moving forward. So those were really 00:13:24.240 --> 00:13:29.559 key milestones for me in that area. And then 00:13:29.559 --> 00:13:32.519 while I was in Ottawa, I kind of like to build 00:13:32.519 --> 00:13:34.740 things. So the Healing Foundation was pretty 00:13:34.740 --> 00:13:38.379 well built and set and they were just funding 00:13:38.379 --> 00:13:41.480 it or monitoring the funds. So I wanted to do 00:13:41.480 --> 00:13:43.679 something different. And an opportunity came 00:13:43.679 --> 00:13:46.200 with the Aboriginal Finance Office Association, 00:13:46.580 --> 00:13:50.679 which is set up to provide educational and capacity 00:13:50.679 --> 00:13:54.419 products to First Nation or Aboriginal finance 00:13:54.419 --> 00:13:57.879 managers across the country. So very unique organization. 00:13:58.500 --> 00:14:02.940 And I was there for seven years. When I got there, 00:14:02.980 --> 00:14:05.779 there was membership was about 400, in between 00:14:05.779 --> 00:14:08.919 400 and 500 people. We had an annual conference 00:14:08.919 --> 00:14:12.990 that was drawing about six, 700 participants 00:14:12.990 --> 00:14:17.049 regularly. And when I left in 2011, there were 00:14:17.049 --> 00:14:22.190 1 ,700 members and our conference was attracting 00:14:22.190 --> 00:14:28.389 1 ,300 participants. So did something right there. 00:14:28.649 --> 00:14:32.629 We really listened to the needs of our finance 00:14:32.629 --> 00:14:35.309 managers, try to deliver the products to them 00:14:35.309 --> 00:14:38.370 that would really help them do their job much 00:14:38.370 --> 00:14:43.200 better. And then I got a phone call from the 00:14:43.200 --> 00:14:46.919 former president and CEO of First Nation Finance 00:14:46.919 --> 00:14:49.700 Authority, Deanna Hamilton. She was the individual 00:14:49.700 --> 00:14:53.620 that really spearheaded the birth of FNFA and 00:14:53.620 --> 00:14:55.919 getting it to the point where it was at that 00:14:55.919 --> 00:14:59.039 point in time. It was legislated and just on 00:14:59.039 --> 00:15:02.120 the verge of doing great things. So she came 00:15:02.120 --> 00:15:04.960 and she said she was retiring and she would like 00:15:04.960 --> 00:15:08.940 me to consider replacing her. That's how I ended 00:15:08.940 --> 00:15:12.100 up here and came at the right time. You know, 00:15:12.120 --> 00:15:15.539 timing is always really good when you're advancing 00:15:15.539 --> 00:15:17.799 in your career. And so I did come at the right 00:15:17.799 --> 00:15:21.399 time. It was structured more to finance First 00:15:21.399 --> 00:15:24.320 Nations that were doing property taxing. So that's, 00:15:24.320 --> 00:15:26.120 you know, that's not a lot of First Nations. 00:15:26.759 --> 00:15:29.480 But when I got here, they were just finishing 00:15:29.480 --> 00:15:34.399 up the major amendment to the Act was the financing 00:15:34.399 --> 00:15:38.159 other revenues that First Nations had. So when 00:15:38.159 --> 00:15:41.460 that regulation came in in 2011, it was a major 00:15:41.460 --> 00:15:45.059 change for the organization. I think that's not 00:15:45.059 --> 00:15:47.120 a milestone for me, but it's a milestone for 00:15:47.120 --> 00:15:50.019 the organization and really a milestone for Indigenous 00:15:50.019 --> 00:15:52.879 communities, First Nations across Canada. So 00:15:52.879 --> 00:15:56.299 from that point on, we worked very hard, Steve, 00:15:56.460 --> 00:16:00.639 very instrumental in helping build that path 00:16:00.639 --> 00:16:02.519 to the capital markets. We have to get the capital 00:16:02.519 --> 00:16:05.639 markets believing in what we're doing, which 00:16:05.639 --> 00:16:10.120 is... It wasn't an easy task. We started lending 00:16:10.120 --> 00:16:15.580 in 2012, and finally in 2014, we had enough to 00:16:15.580 --> 00:16:18.279 go to the capital markets and issued our first 00:16:18.279 --> 00:16:21.700 venture in 2014. And it was the first time in 00:16:21.700 --> 00:16:26.100 the history, in the entire world, where a boring 00:16:26.100 --> 00:16:30.120 pool of First Nations garnered an investment 00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:33.460 -grade credit rating that allowed us to issue 00:16:33.460 --> 00:16:37.360 our bond. So that was a major milestone for sure. 00:16:37.480 --> 00:16:41.399 It set the stage for what was to come. And, you 00:16:41.399 --> 00:16:44.179 know, I think I always look back to that point 00:16:44.179 --> 00:16:47.320 is, you know, we really proved to government 00:16:47.320 --> 00:16:50.200 and to First Nations that we can do this. This 00:16:50.200 --> 00:16:53.059 can be done. Since then, you know, 10 years later, 00:16:53.240 --> 00:16:57.000 we've issued 11 debentures, had three or four 00:16:57.000 --> 00:17:00.019 successive credit rating increases. So we're 00:17:00.019 --> 00:17:04.559 now at AA with S &P and Moody's. I'm not too 00:17:04.559 --> 00:17:07.099 sure what Steve will tell you, but credit rating 00:17:07.099 --> 00:17:09.579 with Morningstar DVRS is because their rating 00:17:09.579 --> 00:17:11.779 numbers are a little bit different. But I think 00:17:11.779 --> 00:17:14.259 it's very close to a double A. And in the meantime, 00:17:14.440 --> 00:17:17.140 we were able to be awarded the Governor General's 00:17:17.140 --> 00:17:20.279 Award for Innovation back a few years ago. So 00:17:20.279 --> 00:17:23.279 we were actually the first financing organization 00:17:23.279 --> 00:17:26.839 to be a recipient of the Governor General's Award. 00:17:27.019 --> 00:17:31.000 It was because our model was so innovative, there 00:17:31.000 --> 00:17:34.009 wasn't anything else. like that for First Nations 00:17:34.009 --> 00:17:37.009 globally and in Canada. To me, it was another 00:17:37.009 --> 00:17:40.809 milestone, a huge milestone. You know, the work 00:17:40.809 --> 00:17:45.250 that we did and how we had to work with the capital 00:17:45.250 --> 00:17:48.210 markets and how we had to also work with the 00:17:48.210 --> 00:17:51.309 First Nations to really believe in us, believe 00:17:51.309 --> 00:17:54.529 in what we're doing. It took a lot of work in 00:17:54.529 --> 00:17:57.250 those early years. And I think those are personal 00:17:57.250 --> 00:18:00.789 milestones that we were able to do that and to 00:18:00.789 --> 00:18:03.460 get the First Nations to. really believe in us 00:18:03.460 --> 00:18:06.059 because I believe that without the First Nations 00:18:06.059 --> 00:18:08.700 believing us, we got nothing. We can't go forward. 00:18:08.859 --> 00:18:12.859 We need them because they're putting their revenues 00:18:12.859 --> 00:18:17.019 forward to support the financing that they really 00:18:17.019 --> 00:18:20.000 want us to go out and get. And so I felt really 00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:23.180 good about that. And since then, we've actually 00:18:23.180 --> 00:18:26.079 been recipients of a number of awards. We won 00:18:26.079 --> 00:18:29.839 the financing for the future. Ward was back a 00:18:29.839 --> 00:18:32.940 few years ago as well, just around, just after 00:18:32.940 --> 00:18:35.380 COVID, I think. It was announced in London, England 00:18:35.380 --> 00:18:39.019 as well. We were up against organizations from 00:18:39.019 --> 00:18:42.059 all across the globe and we came out on top in 00:18:42.059 --> 00:18:46.339 the category we're in. Impressive. Yeah. It's 00:18:46.339 --> 00:18:50.099 a fantastic story, Ernie. I love hearing about 00:18:50.099 --> 00:18:53.240 your... Personal background, too. It's inspiring 00:18:53.240 --> 00:18:56.519 when leaders like yourselves talk about humble 00:18:56.519 --> 00:18:59.460 upbringings and what you've learned through your 00:18:59.460 --> 00:19:02.920 travels. And maybe you've dispelled some preconceived 00:19:02.920 --> 00:19:05.559 notions about what accountants get up to in their 00:19:05.559 --> 00:19:11.299 spare time as well. But for the audience who's 00:19:11.299 --> 00:19:14.619 not familiar with FNFA, can we go back a little 00:19:14.619 --> 00:19:18.609 bit and talk about just what? the FNFA's purposes 00:19:18.609 --> 00:19:22.849 and how it was established. Established in 2005 00:19:22.849 --> 00:19:27.210 by federal legislation. Yeah, the receiver was 00:19:27.210 --> 00:19:30.710 sent in 2005. And the purpose was to establish 00:19:30.710 --> 00:19:34.390 not only FNFA, but some other organizations as 00:19:34.390 --> 00:19:36.589 well that came out of that, like the First Nations 00:19:36.589 --> 00:19:39.349 Financial Management Board, First Nations Tax 00:19:39.349 --> 00:19:42.750 Authority, I guess indirectly the First Nations 00:19:42.750 --> 00:19:46.119 Major Projects Coalition. And so a really important 00:19:46.119 --> 00:19:49.279 act that spawned organizations doing amazing 00:19:49.279 --> 00:19:52.579 things all these years later. In the FNFA's case, 00:19:52.920 --> 00:19:57.039 what was the purpose of establishing? The first 00:19:57.039 --> 00:20:01.299 iteration of the FNFA was in the early 1990s. 00:20:01.299 --> 00:20:04.019 It was started here in West Bank First Nation. 00:20:04.240 --> 00:20:07.420 And Steve at the time was working for the Municipal 00:20:07.420 --> 00:20:09.900 Finance Authority of BC, which is the model that 00:20:09.900 --> 00:20:13.410 FNFA is built after. So Deanna Hamilton, who 00:20:13.410 --> 00:20:16.650 I mentioned earlier, was working with West Bank 00:20:16.650 --> 00:20:19.509 because they were doing property taxation with 00:20:19.509 --> 00:20:22.809 non -members on the reserve. And some other individuals 00:20:22.809 --> 00:20:25.809 looked at how can we raise money from the property 00:20:25.809 --> 00:20:28.490 taxes that we're collecting, like other municipalities, 00:20:28.849 --> 00:20:32.549 because they didn't have that access to do that. 00:20:32.690 --> 00:20:34.849 So they looked at Kelowna and they looked at 00:20:34.849 --> 00:20:38.789 other surrounding municipalities and found out 00:20:38.789 --> 00:20:41.539 that they belong to this municipal. Finance Authority 00:20:41.539 --> 00:20:46.059 of BC. And so it's a cool boring model. And that's 00:20:46.059 --> 00:20:50.140 how the FNFA was born in the early 90s. And they 00:20:50.140 --> 00:20:53.539 fought for legislation for almost 20 years. That 00:20:53.539 --> 00:20:56.940 really started the thought of this. So in 2005, 00:20:57.539 --> 00:21:00.759 when they got to Parliament in 2006, received 00:21:00.759 --> 00:21:04.200 Royal Assent, the second iteration of FNFA came 00:21:04.200 --> 00:21:08.059 into force. And unlike the other institutions 00:21:08.059 --> 00:21:12.200 that operate under the Act, We're not a crown 00:21:12.200 --> 00:21:15.619 corporation or we're not affiliated with the 00:21:15.619 --> 00:21:18.380 government in any way. The other institutions 00:21:18.380 --> 00:21:21.319 have directors that are appointed by the government, 00:21:21.500 --> 00:21:24.500 save a few directors point from other organizations. 00:21:24.799 --> 00:21:27.619 In our case, our directors are appointed from 00:21:27.619 --> 00:21:32.480 our members because they have all the risk involved 00:21:32.480 --> 00:21:35.960 in this, all the benefits. And so they make up 00:21:35.960 --> 00:21:39.150 the board. So that's how we're very unique. We're 00:21:39.150 --> 00:21:42.410 a First Nation -led organization. You know, it 00:21:42.410 --> 00:21:46.150 was much driven by the priorities of our First 00:21:46.150 --> 00:21:48.910 Nation members that we serve. Primary function 00:21:48.910 --> 00:21:53.369 is to find and secure financing in domestic and 00:21:53.369 --> 00:21:56.250 international capital markets for First Nations. 00:21:56.529 --> 00:21:59.910 And the financing we secure, primarily through 00:21:59.910 --> 00:22:03.450 the issuance of debentures, is securitized by 00:22:03.450 --> 00:22:06.309 the own source revenues of qualifying First Nations. 00:22:06.890 --> 00:22:09.710 So where historically the financing support we 00:22:09.710 --> 00:22:13.430 provided was primarily for infrastructure as 00:22:13.430 --> 00:22:16.369 roads, we're now venturing into more economic 00:22:16.369 --> 00:22:20.390 development types of investments. And I keep 00:22:20.390 --> 00:22:24.930 going back to, you know, we seem to be evolving 00:22:24.930 --> 00:22:29.809 each year into the different types of investments 00:22:29.809 --> 00:22:32.730 we're making, the inroads we're making into the 00:22:32.730 --> 00:22:35.700 capital markets. where we now have international 00:22:35.700 --> 00:22:39.740 investors buying our debt. So our debt is well 00:22:39.740 --> 00:22:42.839 known in the world, which is unique in itself. 00:22:43.160 --> 00:22:45.579 On what parts of the world? Can you say what 00:22:45.579 --> 00:22:49.740 parts of the world? Yeah, Steve can actually 00:22:49.740 --> 00:22:52.400 add to this as well. But I know we have investors 00:22:52.400 --> 00:22:55.980 from Korea, Europe, the United States, and I 00:22:55.980 --> 00:22:58.259 believe we had investors from the Middle East 00:22:58.259 --> 00:23:00.309 as well. I don't know how much, I don't think 00:23:00.309 --> 00:23:04.490 we could say who, but it's just, you know, the 00:23:04.490 --> 00:23:07.470 banking syndicate we work with do a really good 00:23:07.470 --> 00:23:10.009 job of getting investors in front of us so that 00:23:10.009 --> 00:23:13.650 we can present to them. And Steve's been doing 00:23:13.650 --> 00:23:15.750 a really good job with that. It's great to see 00:23:15.750 --> 00:23:19.509 an Indigenous -led institution attracting capital 00:23:19.509 --> 00:23:22.049 from around the world because there's not enough 00:23:22.049 --> 00:23:26.190 capital in Canada to meet the demands if we're 00:23:26.190 --> 00:23:28.569 going to close. whether it's the infrastructure 00:23:28.569 --> 00:23:33.029 gap or some of the other gaps that exist in First 00:23:33.029 --> 00:23:35.789 Nations, other Indigenous communities, might 00:23:35.789 --> 00:23:38.769 have to attract capital from outside of Canada. 00:23:38.890 --> 00:23:42.730 And you're already doing it. So congratulations. 00:23:43.450 --> 00:23:47.789 Oh, thank you. For our listeners, sorry, Steve 00:23:47.789 --> 00:23:51.690 Byrne is the Chief Operating Officer of FNFA, 00:23:51.849 --> 00:23:55.180 and he'll be joining us on another podcast. Yeah, 00:23:55.220 --> 00:23:59.680 you've overseen tremendous growth over your tenure 00:23:59.680 --> 00:24:02.980 of 10 years, starting with the very first bond 00:24:02.980 --> 00:24:06.960 issuance. And now you've said 10 and over $2 00:24:06.960 --> 00:24:11.180 billion raised, over $2 billion invested. How 00:24:11.180 --> 00:24:13.480 many members do you have and what does it take 00:24:13.480 --> 00:24:17.759 to become a member of a pretty special club, 00:24:17.779 --> 00:24:20.339 it seems? Yeah, very good question. So I'll start 00:24:20.339 --> 00:24:23.799 with how we become a member. One of the other 00:24:23.799 --> 00:24:25.940 institutions that operates under the First Nations 00:24:25.940 --> 00:24:28.259 Fiscal Management Act is called the First Nations 00:24:28.259 --> 00:24:31.079 Financial Management Board. And their mandate 00:24:31.079 --> 00:24:36.460 initially in 2011 when we were working with them 00:24:36.460 --> 00:24:40.079 was their mandate is to develop standards for 00:24:40.079 --> 00:24:45.259 financial management. They were based on COSO, 00:24:45.400 --> 00:24:49.420 the Committee for Sponsoring Organizations, back 00:24:49.420 --> 00:24:53.970 in probably around... just before 2010, they 00:24:53.970 --> 00:24:56.430 were working on that. So they developed standards 00:24:56.430 --> 00:25:00.410 for like a model, a level, a certain level of 00:25:00.410 --> 00:25:02.750 financial management. So all First Nations have 00:25:02.750 --> 00:25:05.710 to adopt that. Then they went through an assessment 00:25:05.710 --> 00:25:09.470 of looking at their financial history and rating 00:25:09.470 --> 00:25:12.589 them with certain financial ratios that were 00:25:12.589 --> 00:25:15.970 recommended at the time from the capital markets. 00:25:16.289 --> 00:25:22.099 And so based on that, if the First Nations develop 00:25:22.099 --> 00:25:25.140 this, what they call a financial administration 00:25:25.140 --> 00:25:29.099 law that has these standards and pass the financial 00:25:29.099 --> 00:25:31.940 ratios. They're awarded the financial performance 00:25:31.940 --> 00:25:34.700 certificate from the FMB. That was the ticket 00:25:34.700 --> 00:25:38.839 to get to FNFA. So First Nations, all First Nations 00:25:38.839 --> 00:25:41.940 have to meet the standards. So the one group, 00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:45.740 we have a boring group that's all the same standards. 00:25:45.859 --> 00:25:48.599 So once a First Nation has a performance, they 00:25:48.599 --> 00:25:52.390 come to us. We do our due diligence and assess 00:25:52.390 --> 00:25:56.250 their ability to finance debt going into the 00:25:56.250 --> 00:25:59.809 future. So we're more future -looking. PASP is 00:25:59.809 --> 00:26:03.190 really done by the FMB, which we rely on. But 00:26:03.190 --> 00:26:08.069 at the same time, we are looking for the nations, 00:26:08.150 --> 00:26:10.470 looking at what revenues they have that can support 00:26:10.470 --> 00:26:14.930 loans. And so that's how members become a member 00:26:14.930 --> 00:26:18.920 with us. We have about 100 in the... 70 members 00:26:18.920 --> 00:26:23.460 now, I believe it is. Steve Burnham, he may correct 00:26:23.460 --> 00:26:25.900 me on that because it changes pretty regularly. 00:26:26.380 --> 00:26:29.640 And of that, there's almost 100 that are bordering 00:26:29.640 --> 00:26:33.880 of that group. And one of the first steps, I've 00:26:33.880 --> 00:26:35.599 got to go even further back. One of the first 00:26:35.599 --> 00:26:38.359 steps that a nation has to do, it's supposed 00:26:38.359 --> 00:26:40.819 to be a formality step, but it's the longest 00:26:40.819 --> 00:26:45.299 step in the process. It's requesting to the minister 00:26:45.299 --> 00:26:49.039 of CERNA. Crown Indigenous Relations Minister 00:26:49.039 --> 00:26:52.240 that you want to work under the Act. So the whole 00:26:52.240 --> 00:26:55.599 purpose of that is to signify that First Nations 00:26:55.599 --> 00:26:58.720 are voluntarily working under their Act. They're 00:26:58.720 --> 00:27:01.200 not being forced to work under the Act. And so 00:27:01.200 --> 00:27:04.460 with anything, with government, it takes an easy 00:27:04.460 --> 00:27:08.099 process, I guess, can take months. So once they 00:27:08.099 --> 00:27:11.440 have that, then we work with them and we get 00:27:11.440 --> 00:27:14.099 financing to them pretty quickly if they need 00:27:14.099 --> 00:27:18.990 it. We set up our own due diligence, and we haven't 00:27:18.990 --> 00:27:21.130 had a failure to date, which is really good. 00:27:21.809 --> 00:27:24.089 So you would start, you would have a number of 00:27:24.089 --> 00:27:27.670 nations who are allowed to work or permitted 00:27:27.670 --> 00:27:30.210 then to work under the Act, and then there's 00:27:30.210 --> 00:27:32.789 a subset who meet certain criteria who become 00:27:32.789 --> 00:27:37.869 members of EFA authority. That's correct. Yes, 00:27:37.869 --> 00:27:41.109 there's about three. There's an excess of 350. 00:27:42.960 --> 00:27:45.220 First Nations that are scheduled under the Act. 00:27:45.339 --> 00:27:47.500 So there's always going to be a lag between the 00:27:47.500 --> 00:27:50.299 certified First Nations, I mean, the scheduled 00:27:50.299 --> 00:27:52.880 First Nations, the certified, and the Boring 00:27:52.880 --> 00:27:55.960 members. If we all have the same amount, then 00:27:55.960 --> 00:27:58.880 that means everybody's included, right? So, yeah. 00:27:59.380 --> 00:28:02.880 Yeah, curious about, do you have different size 00:28:02.880 --> 00:28:07.839 communities and nations wanting to join? Is the... 00:28:08.400 --> 00:28:11.500 price of admission the same for every community? 00:28:11.619 --> 00:28:16.059 Or does it depend on projects you have? So are 00:28:16.059 --> 00:28:18.440 there different sizes for different shapes of 00:28:18.440 --> 00:28:22.079 communities? Guess what I'm asking. Yeah, so 00:28:22.079 --> 00:28:25.240 yeah, not all mentions are the same and they're 00:28:25.240 --> 00:28:28.119 not all created equal in some location in most 00:28:28.119 --> 00:28:32.559 cases and really opportunities. So we have our 00:28:32.559 --> 00:28:37.440 interest rate is the same for Every size of First 00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:39.880 Nation, that does not change. They borrow as 00:28:39.880 --> 00:28:42.759 a group. They go through the same process as 00:28:42.759 --> 00:28:45.559 one another because they're in a borrowing group. 00:28:45.680 --> 00:28:49.220 They're taking risk of the other members, but 00:28:49.220 --> 00:28:52.759 they're also benefiting. So there's a risk -reward 00:28:52.759 --> 00:28:54.920 kind of thing because if something goes wrong, 00:28:55.059 --> 00:28:58.259 then it's a borrowing pool. You support your 00:28:58.259 --> 00:29:02.579 members in that pool. And it's been working really 00:29:02.579 --> 00:29:05.559 well so far. You know, more and more nations 00:29:05.559 --> 00:29:08.079 are coming to us with different types of projects. 00:29:08.240 --> 00:29:11.759 Depending on the complexity of the project, we 00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:16.259 obviously have to do more due diligence for some 00:29:16.259 --> 00:29:18.819 things. And then like some other things that 00:29:18.819 --> 00:29:21.759 are pretty easy, like if you have a revenue sharing 00:29:21.759 --> 00:29:24.839 agreement with Canada that flows or with a province 00:29:24.839 --> 00:29:28.880 or that flows pretty regularly to build an administrative 00:29:28.880 --> 00:29:32.240 building, well, that's pretty easy. But then 00:29:32.240 --> 00:29:36.230 if you get into... A complex project like the 00:29:36.230 --> 00:29:39.069 seven Mi 'kmaq communities that purchase clearwater 00:29:39.069 --> 00:29:42.569 seafood is a little bit more complex. So there's 00:29:42.569 --> 00:29:45.029 different natures of that. And then again, if 00:29:45.029 --> 00:29:47.930 you get into oil and gas, natural gas projects, 00:29:48.230 --> 00:29:52.009 there's a lot more due diligence. So it's just 00:29:52.009 --> 00:29:55.470 a type of the project, but everything else is 00:29:55.470 --> 00:29:58.009 pretty well the same for the nations in terms 00:29:58.009 --> 00:30:01.670 of how we operate. We operate like a lockbox 00:30:01.670 --> 00:30:06.700 mechanism. where we have a custodian that receives 00:30:06.700 --> 00:30:10.759 the, we intercept the money through the revenue 00:30:10.759 --> 00:30:14.259 streams to our custodian. We get paid first and 00:30:14.259 --> 00:30:16.359 the balance goes back to the First Nation and 00:30:16.359 --> 00:30:19.180 it's been working really well. That's kind of 00:30:19.180 --> 00:30:22.200 the uniqueness of this. And are you typically 00:30:22.200 --> 00:30:27.079 lending alongside an equity component? So are 00:30:27.079 --> 00:30:32.880 you, have you got equity investors? What's for 00:30:32.880 --> 00:30:36.299 equity, if you were going to put? Steve can give 00:30:36.299 --> 00:30:40.960 you more details on this. But we actually, when 00:30:40.960 --> 00:30:43.460 we're going out and issuing, like we're raising 00:30:43.460 --> 00:30:45.819 the money and then reland it to the nations. 00:30:46.480 --> 00:30:49.500 So we have a relanding rate. Obviously, we got 00:30:49.500 --> 00:30:52.220 to cover our costs of operating. We do manage 00:30:52.220 --> 00:30:55.039 pools of money because we operate a sinking fund 00:30:55.039 --> 00:30:58.019 on the bonds. We have a debt reserve fund that's 00:30:58.019 --> 00:31:03.519 been set up to 5 % of. the loan amount for each 00:31:03.519 --> 00:31:06.339 of the loans that a borrower would borrow from 00:31:06.339 --> 00:31:08.920 us. And we do have support from the federal government 00:31:08.920 --> 00:31:11.519 for the credit enhancement fund that helped us 00:31:11.519 --> 00:31:14.700 at the beginning. And so we manage those pools 00:31:14.700 --> 00:31:17.920 of money. And so we do invest those. Steve can 00:31:17.920 --> 00:31:21.599 give you more details on that. It's pretty well 00:31:21.599 --> 00:31:25.380 for the benefit of the members. The sinking fund 00:31:25.380 --> 00:31:27.640 is there to retire the bonds at the term of the 00:31:27.640 --> 00:31:31.500 bond. So we are earning other principal payments 00:31:31.500 --> 00:31:35.319 that they're making to us. And so, yeah, you're 00:31:35.319 --> 00:31:38.859 not just lending, you're providing some advisory 00:31:38.859 --> 00:31:43.579 services as well, investment services. Are our 00:31:43.579 --> 00:31:46.539 nations, other than the sinking fund, are nations 00:31:46.539 --> 00:31:51.900 placing some funds with you to invest? Yeah. 00:31:51.940 --> 00:31:54.420 So, you know, for the first six, seven years, 00:31:54.500 --> 00:31:57.339 we really worked on getting the loan program 00:31:57.339 --> 00:32:01.170 going. We also, what's another milestone for 00:32:01.170 --> 00:32:03.230 the organization is setting up our own commercial 00:32:03.230 --> 00:32:05.990 paper program. Before we were operating on a 00:32:05.990 --> 00:32:09.269 facility, credit facility from a consortium of 00:32:09.269 --> 00:32:11.549 banks. But now we operate our own commercial 00:32:11.549 --> 00:32:15.809 paper where we raise $600 million a month. And 00:32:15.809 --> 00:32:19.029 that's to fund communities that are in between 00:32:19.029 --> 00:32:21.369 our debenture issues or construction projects. 00:32:21.849 --> 00:32:24.710 So we do have that available and we have a credit 00:32:24.710 --> 00:32:27.500 rating for that, which is... I forget the rating 00:32:27.500 --> 00:32:30.480 for that, but it's in kind of the middle of the 00:32:30.480 --> 00:32:33.579 pack, like more your AA kind of thing. That allows 00:32:33.579 --> 00:32:37.259 us to do that regularly. The advisory services 00:32:37.259 --> 00:32:41.799 is more to assist the First Nations in looking 00:32:41.799 --> 00:32:44.519 at their debt, maybe restructuring some of their 00:32:44.519 --> 00:32:47.559 debt. And, you know, prior to the FNFA coming 00:32:47.559 --> 00:32:51.740 on, a lot of our nations were paying double -digit 00:32:51.740 --> 00:32:55.559 interest rates on their debt, like 11%, 12%. 00:32:56.119 --> 00:33:00.440 Or even back a few years ago when the interest 00:33:00.440 --> 00:33:02.660 rates were really low, they were still paying 00:33:02.660 --> 00:33:07.299 crime plus, which is really, really high. Sometimes 00:33:07.299 --> 00:33:10.599 we finance a high interest rate debt because 00:33:10.599 --> 00:33:14.079 it does free up cash flow for the nations. And 00:33:14.079 --> 00:33:18.119 in turn, they turn that money into infrastructure 00:33:18.119 --> 00:33:22.059 because every time our nation has any revenues 00:33:22.059 --> 00:33:24.559 that they have that they can utilize for their 00:33:24.559 --> 00:33:26.980 communities, They're building infrastructure. 00:33:28.480 --> 00:33:31.119 You're aware of the infrastructure gap. So that's 00:33:31.119 --> 00:33:35.500 that. And our investment services, we just started 00:33:35.500 --> 00:33:39.319 focusing on that maybe two and a half years ago. 00:33:39.400 --> 00:33:44.339 We were operating a pool investment product for 00:33:44.339 --> 00:33:47.019 our members. We were working with MFABC at the 00:33:47.019 --> 00:33:50.779 start. And now we're working on our own. So we're 00:33:50.779 --> 00:33:53.900 offering a pretty good rate for nations that 00:33:53.900 --> 00:33:57.079 have really idle cash. that's available. We're 00:33:57.079 --> 00:34:00.180 not like a trust company that can manage large 00:34:00.180 --> 00:34:03.119 trusts like settlement funds that our nations 00:34:03.119 --> 00:34:07.339 have. But yeah, we do have a lot of nations investing 00:34:07.339 --> 00:34:10.800 with us right now, which is really good. It's 00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:14.360 been a busy period. What does the future look 00:34:14.360 --> 00:34:18.539 like for FNFA? I think the future looks pretty 00:34:18.539 --> 00:34:22.739 good ever since the government of Canada recognized 00:34:22.739 --> 00:34:26.380 the UNDRIP. at the UN. I was actually there in 00:34:26.380 --> 00:34:30.599 person and witnessed Minister Caroline Bennett 00:34:30.599 --> 00:34:33.820 at the time announced that Canada was going to 00:34:33.820 --> 00:34:37.360 adopt the UN Declaration. It was a huge turning 00:34:37.360 --> 00:34:42.579 point for nations in Canada. And with that, Canada 00:34:42.579 --> 00:34:46.699 has actually passed a bill last year to implement 00:34:46.699 --> 00:34:50.760 UNDRIP and really focus on economic reconciliation. 00:34:51.420 --> 00:34:54.380 So with economic reconciliation, a lot of opportunities 00:34:54.380 --> 00:34:57.039 are coming forward. Some of the things that we're 00:34:57.039 --> 00:35:00.880 working on is to try to close this infrastructure 00:35:00.880 --> 00:35:04.440 gap. Canada right now, the estimated amount that 00:35:04.440 --> 00:35:08.780 a recent study with AFN, the Assembly of First 00:35:08.780 --> 00:35:12.920 Nations, and Indigenous Services Canada did jointly 00:35:12.920 --> 00:35:17.039 indicated that the infrastructure gap was $349 00:35:17.039 --> 00:35:22.869 .2 billion. That just shows you the severe underfunding 00:35:22.869 --> 00:35:28.050 to our communities that led to this. It didn't 00:35:28.050 --> 00:35:31.429 really keep up with our population growth. And 00:35:31.429 --> 00:35:35.869 really, First Nations had no control over infrastructure 00:35:35.869 --> 00:35:38.070 that was being built in our communities. They 00:35:38.070 --> 00:35:41.329 were more or less prescribed. And that was the 00:35:41.329 --> 00:35:45.110 reason why we ended up in this situation. And 00:35:45.110 --> 00:35:49.639 just with the experience that we have, the FNFA 00:35:49.639 --> 00:35:52.699 has with leveraging First Nations oil and source 00:35:52.699 --> 00:35:55.800 revenue into the capital markets and getting 00:35:55.800 --> 00:35:58.780 more money today at today's dollar, not tomorrow's 00:35:58.780 --> 00:36:03.039 inflated dollar. We actually have been working 00:36:03.039 --> 00:36:06.199 on this since... I actually went back and looked 00:36:06.199 --> 00:36:10.880 at my notes yesterday. 2017 is when I started 00:36:10.880 --> 00:36:15.400 presentations to the Senate INAN Committee on... 00:36:16.030 --> 00:36:18.590 monetizing federal government transfers to close 00:36:18.590 --> 00:36:21.309 the infrastructure gap. I don't know how else 00:36:21.309 --> 00:36:24.130 the government is going to do this. They're rolling 00:36:24.130 --> 00:36:27.610 out some infrastructure programs, but not enough. 00:36:27.889 --> 00:36:30.869 And they're doing it kind of over time, like 00:36:30.869 --> 00:36:33.909 four or five years, or in two years they will 00:36:33.909 --> 00:36:38.869 do this. But it's still, like we call it a pay 00:36:38.869 --> 00:36:42.969 -as -you -go model that the government of Canada 00:36:42.969 --> 00:36:46.360 uses to fund infrastructure. So whatever you 00:36:46.360 --> 00:36:49.480 have in your budget, that's what you build. So, 00:36:49.500 --> 00:36:53.139 you know, as individuals, we buy a house. And 00:36:53.139 --> 00:36:56.039 there's not a lot of us can go and we don't have 00:36:56.039 --> 00:36:58.260 the money in our bank and go and pay like $500 00:36:58.260 --> 00:37:01.280 ,000 or even a million dollars to buy a house 00:37:01.280 --> 00:37:05.239 today. So we mortgage it. And we mortgage it 00:37:05.239 --> 00:37:07.599 based on our ability to pay that back, which 00:37:07.599 --> 00:37:11.320 is primarily our salary. And so based on that 00:37:11.320 --> 00:37:14.880 concept, we win. pursuing the government and 00:37:14.880 --> 00:37:19.360 really advocating that they set aside a certain 00:37:19.360 --> 00:37:21.920 amount each year, monetize that, and increase 00:37:21.920 --> 00:37:25.380 it over time so we can go out and leverage into 00:37:25.380 --> 00:37:27.960 the capital markets that amount to build more 00:37:27.960 --> 00:37:32.460 today at today's price. How would that differ 00:37:32.460 --> 00:37:35.380 from what's happening now? At the moment, you 00:37:35.380 --> 00:37:39.199 have members who are pooling their future revenues, 00:37:39.280 --> 00:37:43.909 streams, and borrowing against that. in a way, 00:37:43.949 --> 00:37:47.210 what would this... Well, it's really no different. 00:37:47.409 --> 00:37:50.289 So the only difference is the source of revenue. 00:37:50.570 --> 00:37:53.750 First Nations, their borrowing capacity with 00:37:53.750 --> 00:37:57.530 their own source revenue is not even close to 00:37:57.530 --> 00:38:03.250 where it would be to close a $350 billion infrastructure 00:38:03.250 --> 00:38:06.630 gap. Even at $30 billion, it would be difficult 00:38:06.630 --> 00:38:10.210 for First Nations' own source revenues to build 00:38:10.210 --> 00:38:12.969 that infrastructure to close that gap. And it's 00:38:12.969 --> 00:38:16.150 the government's responsibility for infrastructure 00:38:16.150 --> 00:38:19.829 because they have an annual budget of about $2 00:38:19.829 --> 00:38:23.449 .5 billion for infrastructure for all nations 00:38:23.449 --> 00:38:26.809 across Canada in one given year. So a majority 00:38:26.809 --> 00:38:30.130 of that goes to maintenance because the buildings 00:38:30.130 --> 00:38:33.409 are, existing buildings are deteriorating. Schools, 00:38:33.889 --> 00:38:37.070 you hear about the water, the drinking water 00:38:37.070 --> 00:38:41.449 stuff and problems in Canada. So all of that. 00:38:41.789 --> 00:38:44.489 A majority goes there. Then there's very left 00:38:44.489 --> 00:38:47.650 for new construction. I'll give you an example. 00:38:48.849 --> 00:38:52.630 When we got the federal officials interested 00:38:52.630 --> 00:38:54.929 in this monetization, it was with Health Canada, 00:38:55.170 --> 00:38:58.889 and they were separate from Indigenous Services 00:38:58.889 --> 00:39:03.289 Canada at the time. They were looking at building 00:39:03.289 --> 00:39:07.989 a number of health centers in Ontario in different 00:39:07.989 --> 00:39:10.530 communities. In each of the health centers at 00:39:10.530 --> 00:39:14.030 the time, was going to cost around $10 to $12 00:39:14.030 --> 00:39:17.449 million. A couple of years later, that price 00:39:17.449 --> 00:39:22.889 was $20 million. And so every time they delay, 00:39:23.090 --> 00:39:26.590 the price of construction just goes up and the 00:39:26.590 --> 00:39:29.289 budgets stay the same. And you're not building 00:39:29.289 --> 00:39:34.670 enough to really satisfy the needs for the well 00:39:34.670 --> 00:39:36.650 -being of the First Nations in our community. 00:39:36.809 --> 00:39:39.449 And that's what it's really about. the well -being, 00:39:39.469 --> 00:39:41.570 the quality of life for our communities. And 00:39:41.570 --> 00:39:46.010 the government is not keeping up. It's their 00:39:46.010 --> 00:39:48.130 responsibility. Under the arrangements of the 00:39:48.130 --> 00:39:50.530 treaties and so forth, the funding arrangements 00:39:50.530 --> 00:39:53.789 that they have with Canada, they have to do that. 00:39:54.170 --> 00:39:58.150 So expecting First Nations to make up that, it's 00:39:58.150 --> 00:40:01.789 going to be difficult without a revenue stream, 00:40:01.929 --> 00:40:04.090 a revenue source from the government of Canada. 00:40:04.289 --> 00:40:06.909 And so that's what we're advocating for. You 00:40:06.909 --> 00:40:09.119 don't have to be all your budget. But it can 00:40:09.119 --> 00:40:12.639 be one that we can start. You know, we can really 00:40:12.639 --> 00:40:16.099 grow this to where we actually end up closing 00:40:16.099 --> 00:40:19.940 this gap or won't close it fully because $350 00:40:19.940 --> 00:40:23.960 billion is a lot. Because I can't see Canada 00:40:23.960 --> 00:40:28.360 doing it. They've indicated in some of the mandate 00:40:28.360 --> 00:40:30.179 letters, the prime minister did with some of 00:40:30.179 --> 00:40:32.019 the mandate letters to some of the ministers. 00:40:32.750 --> 00:40:35.889 And in the budget announcements, the speech from 00:40:35.889 --> 00:40:37.809 the throne, that they want to close the infrastructure 00:40:37.809 --> 00:40:41.489 gap by 2030. So we're in 2024, nearing the end 00:40:41.489 --> 00:40:44.409 of 2024. That leaves us five years left. It's 00:40:44.409 --> 00:40:46.789 not happening. There's an election coming up. 00:40:46.829 --> 00:40:48.730 There's a possibility of a change in government. 00:40:49.230 --> 00:40:51.690 That's going to change everything. We don't know 00:40:51.690 --> 00:40:53.530 what that's going to be. So they're not going 00:40:53.530 --> 00:40:56.030 to close this gap by 2030. But we can make some 00:40:56.030 --> 00:41:00.010 steps towards it. We can do it. So that's what 00:41:00.010 --> 00:41:03.110 we're advocating for. And one of the other things 00:41:03.110 --> 00:41:05.650 that we're working on, which is pretty significant, 00:41:05.789 --> 00:41:08.829 I'm sure you're aware of that in the last budget, 00:41:08.949 --> 00:41:11.789 the prime minister, they announced this loan 00:41:11.789 --> 00:41:15.889 guarantee program that would help indigenous 00:41:15.889 --> 00:41:19.170 organizations take equity interest into large 00:41:19.170 --> 00:41:22.909 resource projects. Yeah, $5 billion initially. 00:41:23.510 --> 00:41:27.530 Yeah, so it's a small amount, but it's a good 00:41:27.530 --> 00:41:31.329 number to start with. The issue for FNFA. with 00:41:31.329 --> 00:41:33.849 the loan guarantee is that we would not be able 00:41:33.849 --> 00:41:36.630 to participate in that. And the reason why we 00:41:36.630 --> 00:41:41.510 wouldn't is because most of the entities would 00:41:41.510 --> 00:41:44.269 be limited liability corporations, special purpose 00:41:44.269 --> 00:41:48.110 vehicles that would either be a collaboration 00:41:48.110 --> 00:41:51.730 of Indigenous organizations, whatever the number 00:41:51.730 --> 00:41:55.110 is, to take the equity interest. And our eligibility 00:41:55.110 --> 00:41:58.750 under the Act right now limits us to working 00:41:58.750 --> 00:42:01.590 with an Indian. And you're not banned. So it 00:42:01.590 --> 00:42:04.530 has to be a First Nation ban. Can you work for 00:42:04.530 --> 00:42:07.989 their economic development arms? We can indirectly. 00:42:08.409 --> 00:42:12.389 And that's the First Nation would be the borrower. 00:42:12.489 --> 00:42:16.210 And they in turn would relend that to the, on 00:42:16.210 --> 00:42:19.969 whatever terms they decide, to the relevant corporations. 00:42:20.329 --> 00:42:23.150 I was thinking about this for a while. And I 00:42:23.150 --> 00:42:25.309 was thinking, well, you know, how can we actually 00:42:25.309 --> 00:42:28.420 participate? Because I was at a roundtable. an 00:42:28.420 --> 00:42:31.679 economic roundtable that Minister Hyde to Indigenous 00:42:31.679 --> 00:42:36.159 Services Canada minister was hosting. And she 00:42:36.159 --> 00:42:39.679 invited all the banks, plus all the institutions 00:42:39.679 --> 00:42:43.780 and other players in the economic, whatever their 00:42:43.780 --> 00:42:47.460 mandates were. And then somebody from one of 00:42:47.460 --> 00:42:49.280 the banks got up and because the announcement 00:42:49.280 --> 00:42:51.659 of the loan guarantee just came out and everybody's 00:42:51.659 --> 00:42:53.719 pretty happy. The banks are happy, right? No 00:42:53.719 --> 00:42:56.300 risk, right? And so they were announcing that. 00:42:56.590 --> 00:42:58.829 You know, with this loan guarantee program, they 00:42:58.829 --> 00:43:02.449 can actually reduce their rate from prime by 00:43:02.449 --> 00:43:06.989 one or two percent. Well, really, one and a half 00:43:06.989 --> 00:43:09.449 percent. But I was sitting there thinking, well, 00:43:09.510 --> 00:43:11.590 we're already two and a half to three percent 00:43:11.590 --> 00:43:15.949 below. So I think it's a missed opportunity if 00:43:15.949 --> 00:43:20.630 we're not able to provide financing to interest 00:43:20.630 --> 00:43:25.269 collaborations of First Nations to take equity 00:43:25.269 --> 00:43:27.679 interests. especially where there's a loan guarantee 00:43:27.679 --> 00:43:30.960 because there's no risk there. So what we're 00:43:30.960 --> 00:43:34.199 doing now, and we have government of Canada working 00:43:34.199 --> 00:43:37.059 on this, we have interest from many different 00:43:37.059 --> 00:43:40.519 ministers is to amend our act that would allow 00:43:40.519 --> 00:43:43.219 us to lend to a special purpose vehicle where 00:43:43.219 --> 00:43:47.079 there's a loan guarantee. If it's a 1%, a one 00:43:47.079 --> 00:43:49.739 and a half percent saving on a billion dollar 00:43:49.739 --> 00:43:54.000 plus project for our nations, that means a lot. 00:43:54.320 --> 00:43:58.719 in terms of revenue that they can do. And like 00:43:58.719 --> 00:44:01.320 I mentioned earlier, with the revenues that our 00:44:01.320 --> 00:44:03.880 nations have, they're putting it back into infrastructure 00:44:03.880 --> 00:44:06.679 in their communities. They're going to create 00:44:06.679 --> 00:44:10.380 economic development. Like the impacts that we've 00:44:10.380 --> 00:44:12.800 made with our investment, we're almost up to 00:44:12.800 --> 00:44:16.099 $3 billion. We may be issuing before the end 00:44:16.099 --> 00:44:19.000 of the calendar year again or early into next 00:44:19.000 --> 00:44:21.820 year. Our estimate is that we've created over 00:44:21.820 --> 00:44:25.869 17 ,000 jobs. The economic impact is around $6 00:44:25.869 --> 00:44:34.369 billion. So when you think about that, the 17 00:44:34.369 --> 00:44:37.190 ,000 jobs are not all going to Indigenous people. 00:44:37.409 --> 00:44:40.829 They're going to non -Indigenous people. So there's 00:44:40.829 --> 00:44:43.829 a benefit for every individual Canadian, for 00:44:43.829 --> 00:44:46.349 every investment that is made on the First Nation 00:44:46.349 --> 00:44:51.829 Reserve. And the economic impact shows that... 00:44:52.349 --> 00:44:56.630 Your non -Indigenous businesses are also benefiting 00:44:56.630 --> 00:45:00.010 from the investment that's going on unreserved. 00:45:00.170 --> 00:45:02.610 We don't have building supply companies in our 00:45:02.610 --> 00:45:05.489 communities. We don't have, you know, car dealerships. 00:45:05.489 --> 00:45:08.170 We don't have these supply. We don't have all 00:45:08.170 --> 00:45:12.090 the professional, the trades people that we need 00:45:12.090 --> 00:45:15.969 to construct our infrastructure and so forth. 00:45:16.070 --> 00:45:19.989 So the economic benefit that we've been providing. 00:45:20.889 --> 00:45:23.210 You know, it's a big amount for us, like $3 billion, 00:45:23.429 --> 00:45:26.610 but in the grand scheme of things, it's a small 00:45:26.610 --> 00:45:29.969 amount. It's making an African difference to 00:45:29.969 --> 00:45:33.530 Canadians. And so, you know, I always say, well, 00:45:33.650 --> 00:45:36.769 Canadians elect who becomes the government. That's 00:45:36.769 --> 00:45:38.170 what we're trying to do. We're trying to target 00:45:38.170 --> 00:45:42.150 Canadians. So we, you know, and also investors 00:45:42.150 --> 00:45:45.369 of how we're attracting investors is we try to 00:45:45.369 --> 00:45:48.000 profile. Some of the projects that communities 00:45:48.000 --> 00:45:50.940 are taking, we're doing videos, really getting 00:45:50.940 --> 00:45:54.920 the First Nation communities to tell the story 00:45:54.920 --> 00:45:58.380 themselves of what this infrastructure or what 00:45:58.380 --> 00:46:01.920 this investment means to them. By association, 00:46:02.239 --> 00:46:07.059 it helps us a lot, but it also helps the community 00:46:07.059 --> 00:46:10.659 achieve what they want. But it helps us to get 00:46:10.659 --> 00:46:15.180 that wider breadth of investors out there. individual 00:46:15.180 --> 00:46:18.099 investors, pension planners and so forth are 00:46:18.099 --> 00:46:21.340 made up of individuals. Their money is being 00:46:21.340 --> 00:46:24.920 invested into that. And it's really worthwhile 00:46:24.920 --> 00:46:28.880 for us to show what their investment dollars 00:46:28.880 --> 00:46:33.500 are doing in our communities, building a better 00:46:33.500 --> 00:46:36.280 quality of life for our communities. And so that's 00:46:36.280 --> 00:46:39.480 what it's all about. That's what drives me. That's 00:46:39.480 --> 00:46:41.719 what gets me up every morning. And that's why 00:46:41.719 --> 00:46:44.820 I'm still working at this because... You know, 00:46:44.820 --> 00:46:48.760 I see that indigenous person myself. I'm very, 00:46:48.860 --> 00:46:51.239 very, very proud of that, that, you know, we're 00:46:51.239 --> 00:46:54.820 able to do this to help communities and make 00:46:54.820 --> 00:46:58.480 it really easy for them to access the capital 00:46:58.480 --> 00:47:01.320 markets in the way that we're doing. I personally 00:47:01.320 --> 00:47:05.260 don't believe that our nations really understand 00:47:05.260 --> 00:47:09.159 the power that First Nations Finance Authority 00:47:09.159 --> 00:47:11.800 has to access the capital markets like the way 00:47:11.800 --> 00:47:15.219 we do. And I don't believe government also realizes 00:47:15.219 --> 00:47:19.820 that. And we should be one of the vehicles that 00:47:19.820 --> 00:47:22.920 they should be looking at to try to achieve some 00:47:22.920 --> 00:47:26.119 of their objectives. Absolutely. When you think 00:47:26.119 --> 00:47:29.420 of your track record, the institution's track 00:47:29.420 --> 00:47:32.219 record over the years, the multiplier effect, 00:47:32.460 --> 00:47:35.159 what you could do with 200, what you could turn 00:47:35.159 --> 00:47:38.460 that into, the fact that that then attracts the 00:47:38.460 --> 00:47:42.170 private capital that's needed. It sounds like 00:47:42.170 --> 00:47:45.989 a no -brainer. Yeah, so that's what I'm counting 00:47:45.989 --> 00:47:48.869 on. And, you know, we're going to do the best 00:47:48.869 --> 00:47:51.369 we can to make sure that message is out there 00:47:51.369 --> 00:47:53.929 to every Canadian, you know, starting from there. 00:47:54.349 --> 00:47:57.670 Yeah, we're working for First Nations. But at 00:47:57.670 --> 00:48:00.590 the same time, you know, it really encouraged 00:48:00.590 --> 00:48:02.710 Canada to invest in their communities because 00:48:02.710 --> 00:48:06.750 it does impact the economy. And they benefit. 00:48:07.090 --> 00:48:09.909 There's tax dollars that are being paid too. 00:48:11.539 --> 00:48:14.239 I think the investment that they make will be 00:48:14.239 --> 00:48:17.300 very small compared to the benefit that they 00:48:17.300 --> 00:48:20.179 will get by investing to this. So some of the 00:48:20.179 --> 00:48:22.920 other initiatives that we're working on is also 00:48:22.920 --> 00:48:27.420 in the insurance area. So we've been financing 00:48:27.420 --> 00:48:29.539 infrastructure in our communities for a number 00:48:29.539 --> 00:48:32.360 of years now. And we've also, you know, we're 00:48:32.360 --> 00:48:35.139 working on closing this infrastructure gap. Right 00:48:35.139 --> 00:48:38.090 now, a lot of our communities have... difficulty 00:48:38.090 --> 00:48:41.050 getting insurance for their assets. And if they 00:48:41.050 --> 00:48:44.110 can, it's very expensive because they're dealing 00:48:44.110 --> 00:48:46.650 one -on -one with insurance brokers. This whole 00:48:46.650 --> 00:48:50.030 notion of a borrowing pool is another idea that 00:48:50.030 --> 00:48:53.190 we came up with is to, well, let's pool all the 00:48:53.190 --> 00:48:57.389 insurance purchasing power of Indigenous organizations 00:48:57.389 --> 00:49:00.369 across the country and use that as a leverage 00:49:00.369 --> 00:49:03.469 to try to get cheaper insurance and really insurance 00:49:03.469 --> 00:49:07.409 that we need. We're working on that. We're just 00:49:07.409 --> 00:49:10.070 building the case right now where we're doing 00:49:10.070 --> 00:49:13.489 a feasibility study and then looking at the structure 00:49:13.489 --> 00:49:16.530 of that. It would be independent from us. But, 00:49:16.610 --> 00:49:18.329 you know, at the same time, we're funding these 00:49:18.329 --> 00:49:20.590 organizations. We really want the community to 00:49:20.590 --> 00:49:23.590 succeed, but we really we want to take some of 00:49:23.590 --> 00:49:25.690 the risk out of it. And so insurance is one of 00:49:25.690 --> 00:49:28.050 those areas. Stay tuned for that. We will get 00:49:28.050 --> 00:49:31.110 there at some point in time. And one of the other 00:49:31.110 --> 00:49:34.329 areas in insurance is surety and bonding insurance. 00:49:34.909 --> 00:49:39.730 The government of Canada has procurement contracts 00:49:39.730 --> 00:49:43.610 of $19 billion or so that they give out. They 00:49:43.610 --> 00:49:48.630 have a set -aside of 5 % for Indigenous contractors. 00:49:49.070 --> 00:49:53.530 They've never reached the 5%. 5 % is never reached. 00:49:53.809 --> 00:49:57.050 And there's one primary reason why, amongst some 00:49:57.050 --> 00:50:00.610 others, but one of the primary reasons is the... 00:50:01.150 --> 00:50:04.210 our contractors can't get access to the surety 00:50:04.210 --> 00:50:08.369 and bonding. It's very expensive. We usually 00:50:08.369 --> 00:50:11.789 have to deal with a non -indigenous organization 00:50:11.789 --> 00:50:15.389 that can do that. And so it's them up. And so 00:50:15.389 --> 00:50:21.070 again, the positive impact of a First Nation 00:50:21.070 --> 00:50:25.969 company getting up to this 5 % and having this 00:50:25.969 --> 00:50:29.090 bonding, again, it's another economic driver. 00:50:29.519 --> 00:50:32.940 you're creating jobs and it's not only we can 00:50:32.940 --> 00:50:35.420 do the provincial governments so we're working 00:50:35.420 --> 00:50:38.400 on uh again another kind of concept with the 00:50:38.400 --> 00:50:42.159 kind of the pool pooling together contractors 00:50:42.159 --> 00:50:45.219 that come together and setting up a backstop 00:50:45.219 --> 00:50:48.420 much like the first instance market housing was 00:50:48.420 --> 00:50:50.880 set up with the 300 million dollar backstop to 00:50:50.880 --> 00:50:53.579 try to create a housing market across our nations 00:50:53.579 --> 00:50:57.599 which is a very difficult task though we We thought, 00:50:57.659 --> 00:51:00.579 well, you know, if we had a $100 million backstop, 00:51:00.780 --> 00:51:02.940 we don't have to get the $100 million right away. 00:51:02.980 --> 00:51:06.280 It can come over two or three years. We can use 00:51:06.280 --> 00:51:10.920 that to create this insurance pool where members 00:51:10.920 --> 00:51:13.460 are monitoring and policing each other and they 00:51:13.460 --> 00:51:17.840 have access to bonding. You could, yeah, if you 00:51:17.840 --> 00:51:22.059 could crack that nut, that would be really, really 00:51:22.059 --> 00:51:27.829 impactful. So those are some of the things we're 00:51:27.829 --> 00:51:31.690 working on. Things get thrown at us every year. 00:51:32.329 --> 00:51:36.050 Our organization is growing and evolving at the 00:51:36.050 --> 00:51:39.730 speed that I never envisioned when I first started 00:51:39.730 --> 00:51:43.110 here. It's almost a different organization from 00:51:43.110 --> 00:51:46.150 year to year. We get this long guarantee thing 00:51:46.150 --> 00:51:48.409 thrown at us last year. So I don't know what's 00:51:48.409 --> 00:51:50.889 coming next year, but we're trying to be ready 00:51:50.889 --> 00:51:53.920 for that. We're making sure that we have staff 00:51:53.920 --> 00:51:56.659 in place that can, you know, do the due diligence, 00:51:56.840 --> 00:51:59.519 do the research, do all this groundwork that 00:51:59.519 --> 00:52:03.559 we need done, and to try to move ourselves forward. 00:52:03.719 --> 00:52:07.340 It's kind of, again, it goes back to creating 00:52:07.340 --> 00:52:09.280 a better quality of life for our communities. 00:52:09.400 --> 00:52:12.260 And so this is one way of doing it that I feel 00:52:12.260 --> 00:52:15.219 really, really good and really happy to be proud 00:52:15.219 --> 00:52:18.019 of. And also, you know, if I can talk about being 00:52:18.019 --> 00:52:21.659 on the Bank of Canada for a second. Yeah, you're 00:52:21.659 --> 00:52:24.159 the first First Nation member to be appointed 00:52:24.159 --> 00:52:27.900 to the board. That's a real honor. Yeah, so it 00:52:27.900 --> 00:52:30.260 is a real honor. And, you know, I'm learning 00:52:30.260 --> 00:52:32.179 a lot from there, really learning how important 00:52:32.179 --> 00:52:35.099 the role of the Bank of Canada is. You know, 00:52:35.119 --> 00:52:37.000 they're not seen as one of these organizations 00:52:37.000 --> 00:52:40.400 that really have an important role, but they 00:52:40.400 --> 00:52:44.300 really do. But, you know, for me, it's not for 00:52:44.300 --> 00:52:47.599 me personally to go on the board. It's for the 00:52:47.599 --> 00:52:51.570 future. It's to set that opportunity for other 00:52:51.570 --> 00:52:54.409 people to come on and go on the bank's board. 00:52:54.570 --> 00:52:57.949 I want to advocate for a female Indigenous person 00:52:57.949 --> 00:53:00.050 to get on the board. We have a lot of talented 00:53:00.050 --> 00:53:06.730 young, not young, but my age, young females that 00:53:06.730 --> 00:53:10.239 can actually... can actually be on the board. 00:53:10.340 --> 00:53:13.179 So that's what I think. And so that's what I 00:53:13.179 --> 00:53:15.840 want to kind of leave behind. I know the bank 00:53:15.840 --> 00:53:17.940 is embarking and they're going to be announcing 00:53:17.940 --> 00:53:22.280 in a few weeks in Ottawa their economic reconciliation 00:53:22.280 --> 00:53:26.280 framework. So that was one of the primarily reasons 00:53:26.280 --> 00:53:30.079 why I got chosen to be on the board and just 00:53:30.079 --> 00:53:32.559 my background in the capital markets and doing 00:53:32.559 --> 00:53:35.900 the work that we did at FNFA here. really, really 00:53:35.900 --> 00:53:38.980 helped that. So that's, you know, for me, it's 00:53:38.980 --> 00:53:41.500 not about me, but it's about what I leave behind 00:53:41.500 --> 00:53:44.139 for somebody else to come in that I can leave 00:53:44.139 --> 00:53:48.179 that opportunity. And that's what I like. Again, 00:53:48.300 --> 00:53:50.179 congratulations on that appointment. I think 00:53:50.179 --> 00:53:51.780 it's how you're talking about these opportunities, 00:53:51.960 --> 00:53:53.739 although they're specifically with the Indigenous 00:53:53.739 --> 00:53:56.519 community, there's benefits for all of Canada. 00:53:56.820 --> 00:53:59.800 And Canada is not operating at its full potential 00:53:59.800 --> 00:54:02.559 if the Indigenous communities, you know, don't 00:54:02.559 --> 00:54:04.199 have the infrastructure and can't participate 00:54:04.199 --> 00:54:07.349 fully. So I think that story is very important. 00:54:07.449 --> 00:54:10.429 And Bank of Canada appointment, and then congratulations 00:54:10.429 --> 00:54:16.250 on being named recipient of the 2024 BC CEO Award. 00:54:16.409 --> 00:54:19.150 So you're clearly recognized, and that's one 00:54:19.150 --> 00:54:21.010 of the reasons we have you on the program, for 00:54:21.010 --> 00:54:24.150 your leadership, what you're bringing to Indigenous 00:54:24.150 --> 00:54:29.530 communities across the country and in BC. And 00:54:29.530 --> 00:54:32.889 I think that just sets a standard. And as we 00:54:32.889 --> 00:54:36.719 talked earlier in the program, showing the young 00:54:36.719 --> 00:54:40.000 people today, there are no limits. Aspire to 00:54:40.000 --> 00:54:42.880 whatever you want to be. It takes, as you've 00:54:42.880 --> 00:54:46.119 demonstrated and told us, hard work. It takes 00:54:46.119 --> 00:54:49.159 good fortune. But if all those things come together, 00:54:49.340 --> 00:54:52.300 no one can say there's a limit to how far anyone 00:54:52.300 --> 00:54:55.219 can go. Yes, thank you. Really appreciate that. 00:54:55.360 --> 00:54:59.760 It is true. And, you know, I, along with Chief 00:54:59.760 --> 00:55:03.579 Clarence Louie, who is the chief of a Soyuz Indian 00:55:03.579 --> 00:55:08.070 Band, he... Every summer he's involved in an 00:55:08.070 --> 00:55:11.690 internship program with a number of Indigenous 00:55:11.690 --> 00:55:17.110 First Nation students, young people. For I don't 00:55:17.110 --> 00:55:19.869 know how many years in a row, I was invited to 00:55:19.869 --> 00:55:23.550 speak to this internship. And it's some of the 00:55:23.550 --> 00:55:26.949 things that I tell them. When an opportunity 00:55:26.949 --> 00:55:30.530 comes to you, you have to look at it. You need 00:55:30.530 --> 00:55:32.550 to look at it. And sometimes you have to take 00:55:32.550 --> 00:55:37.300 a chance. Really, never burn a bridge. Keep your 00:55:37.300 --> 00:55:40.780 opportunities. Relationship building is so key 00:55:40.780 --> 00:55:44.599 in how we achieve our success. And being really 00:55:44.599 --> 00:55:48.300 confident and take a chance. The worst thing 00:55:48.300 --> 00:55:53.039 that could happen is that you fail, but you also 00:55:53.039 --> 00:55:56.900 learn something from it. And it creates, you 00:55:56.900 --> 00:55:58.579 know, when the next opportunity comes around, 00:55:58.679 --> 00:56:01.219 you... I understand, but you learn something 00:56:01.219 --> 00:56:03.880 from every opportunity. And so that's what the 00:56:03.880 --> 00:56:06.320 message that I try to get. Well, really appreciate 00:56:06.320 --> 00:56:10.760 your time, Ernie. You've got a busy, busy schedule, 00:56:10.980 --> 00:56:14.199 clearly, and a lot on the go, but really appreciate 00:56:14.199 --> 00:56:17.219 the time you've taken to explain FNFA, a bit 00:56:17.219 --> 00:56:22.719 about what the institution does and educate our 00:56:22.719 --> 00:56:26.480 listeners, not only here in Europe, but in Canada 00:56:26.480 --> 00:56:30.320 as well. It's a fantastic story, and thank you 00:56:30.320 --> 00:56:32.219 again for your time. Yes, thank you.