Hi, Rob. Great to be back in the studio with
you. You're very fortunate because I think you're
back in cottage country in Canada. Where exactly
are you? Sago, Mark. I am between Toronto and
Montreal, just across the bay from Te Andenega
in the Mohawks of Bay of Quinte, where my family
is from. Great. Well, actually, I went to university
in Kingston, so it's not far from there for those
who even know where that is at the top end of
Lake Ontario. Of course, I'm over here still
in East London, basking in the English heat.
Nothing but cool temperatures and rain for the
past few weeks. And today, of course, you know,
we hit, I think, 31 degrees. So natural gas continues
to be the core energy source here for air conditioners,
if you're lucky to have one. I mean, wind and
solar are on the horizon. Well, speaking of energy,
Mark. Yes, you are. We're very fortunate today
to have with us. Chief Crystal Smith of the Haisla
Nation, a very busy woman who wears many hats.
She's a mother, first and foremost. She's a grandmother,
and she is the Chief Councillor of the Haisla
Nation on the West Coast to British Columbia.
As well as her role as Chief, she also sits on
the board of CEDAR LNG, and we will talk more
about CEDAR in the podcast. She sits on other
boards as well, things like First Nations LNG
Alliance, Cool Power, and the list goes on and
on. So we are very fortunate that she's spending
a few minutes with us today. And welcome to our
podcast, Drumbeats. Welcome, Chief Crystal. It
is great to have you with us today. Thank you
for having me. Super. It's really a pleasure
to have you here. Chief Crystal, to begin the
podcast, why don't you tell us a little bit about
yourself and your personal story and how you
came to be Chief Councillor of the Haisla Nation?
I was born here in BC. I was born in Vancouver
alongside my identical twin sister, but raised
here in community for the majority of the...
My 45 years, I've lived in our beautiful territory
here in Kitimat Village. I'm the oldest sibling
of four of us. I have two... beautiful, amazing
daughters, Ashley, who will be 22 in September.
And I've got Emily, who is 17, going into her
last year of high school. And I'm also a very,
very proud grandmother to Xavier, who is five,
six, six years old. And I've got a two -year
-old grandson named Luca. So in terms of becoming
a part of our elected representatives, was actually
the executive assistant from 2009 to 2013, and
actually was the EA to our first female chief
counsellor, Dolores Pollard, and quickly was
learning in my role what was changing for our
nation in terms of the economic opportunities
that surrounded us. After her term from 2009
to 2011, I was then the executive assistant to
the chief counselor, our previous chief counselor,
Ellis Ross, and learned very quickly in terms
of how drastically fast our environment around
us was changing. and what the opportunities for
our people participating in major projects in
our territory was, and had had a conversation
with him after he spoke at an event in Vancouver
and expressed my interest to become more a part
of the decision -making team as opposed to the
support staff that supported them, and had decided
to run in the 2013 election. And was successful
in getting a four -year term, which 2013 was
the first year we implemented our new custom
election code that gave us four -year terms as
opposed to the old two -year terms. In 2016,
Ellis unfortunately decided that he was going
to run for... unfortunate for us, that he decided
he was going to run for provincial politics and
left his chair as the chief councillor about
eight months early. So I had, along with our
elected council at the time, had decided that
I would be the interim acting chief councillor
for the remaining eight months of that term.
And then in 2017, decided to take the plunge
and become elected and was successful in 2017.
And I've gone through two elections for this
seat and was successful in both. Chief, I'm interested
in going a little bit back to your childhood
and wondering what was life like growing up in
Kitimat and what were the opportunities like?
Did you always dream of being Chief Councillor?
Had you considered going? No, no. I find that
question a little bit funny today as I reflect.
I did not vision that I would be anywhere near
a part of our elected leadership here in our
community. I grew up with my grandparents. Lived
on the front in our community. That's right beside
the ocean. I grew up right on the waterfront
here. And basketball was a large part and still
is a huge, large part in our community. So I
started playing when I was nine and played up
until about three years ago. So obviously it's
a large part of my memory. That's a large part
of my life here in community is the time that
I dedicated to playing and representing our community.
But as I was growing up, you know, it wasn't
a time where most, if not, were not proud to
be Indigenous. You know, we would have a very
difficult history in our country. And that was
reflected through racism, simply because of,
you know, the impacts that colonialism had in
our community around residential schools, the
60 scoops. It left a huge mark in our communities
when it came to the social impacts that we grew
up, that I grew up witnessing in our communities.
You know, a large part of it was alcoholism.
And, you know, I often remember growing up hearing
about statistics about how, you know, our community
school wasn't as up to par. And if we went into
high school, that our students were failing and
there was no supports being provided to us. So
there wasn't an environment that was... around
our youth at the time that really fostered success.
It was more hearing the negative aspect of everything
which meant to be Indigenous. So as I grew up,
I was fortunate enough to have my stepfather
who was very focused on education. He had gone
to university earlier in his life and was very
successful. He talked to my twin and I about
how important it was to finish high school and
further education. But when you grow up with
that type of expectation already set from society,
you don't have the inspiration to aim higher.
And I felt that tremendously. So in growing up
in our community, I would often walk by our old
band office. And I think that's probably my only
option is to work there. So I often pictured
myself either working as the front desk receptionist
or as a janitor one day. The only other opportunities
that were here in our territory were being a
teacher at a local school or working in what
was referred to as ALCAN. So I, I chose the,
I envisioned myself working in the band office
and I, you know, eventually I found myself as
an executive assistant here, here in our administration
office. It doesn't sound like, yeah, you were
driven with sort of leadership goals. Were you,
were you always captain of the basketball team
or were you? And yet here you are, chief councillor
in Canada, you have a number of other boards
doing really interesting things in economic development
space with Indigenous participation and ownership.
And so that's a bit of an inspiration, I would
think, to a lot of people who might not see themselves
as born leaders, but who become and develop into
leaders like yourself. Yeah, it's been an interesting
journey for sure. I remember when I was first
elected as a council member and I had already
established these relationships with some of
our external advisors that we had with the nation.
And I remember two of them reaching out to me
to say congratulations. And I had mentioned that
I was going to be chief councillor one day and
I had some very colourful choices. of words for
them and, and thought, yeah, I'd never, I'd never
be that brave to take on that role because I
I'd seen what our two previous chief counselors
had to endure, um, not only externally, but,
but more importantly, internally within our community,
uh, and, and never would have thought or, or
had taken on, uh, such, such a role. And it,
you know, We're very fortunate to have the community
behind us when it comes to the success that our
nation has seen this far in terms of participating
within the economy. And a large part of that
is their blessing. to be able to pursue these
economic opportunities. And without their support,
our community would not be where we're at today.
So I absolutely am fortunate to be in this position
during this time, but I definitely give credit
to our members that allowed this success to happen.
Well, there might be a book on leadership lessons
then coming from Chief and you and others about
how Indigenous leaders rise up to the challenges
and where they come from in the community because
I think you know it's a long -standing debate
how are leaders made and I think the other thing
that you talked about when you're when you're
growing up and there was some research actually
it was just in the London Times earlier in the
week and it talked that the the greatest determinant
of success of a community is do people feel that
there's opportunities when they're growing up
And that's just what you were talking about when
you were growing up. You didn't feel that the
way, you know, you, you hope to be the receptionist,
right? That was the aspiration at the time. And
you're now giving your, your daughters and grandchildren
and all the other members of the community and
along with your, your council and community as
a whole, this whole way of looking at the world
in front of them, which will allow them to stand
on your shoulders and achieve even greater success.
So that's, that's, you know. Great story to share.
Thank you for sharing that with us. Chief Crystal,
wondering if you want to talk a little bit about
the Haisla nation itself. You're on the west
coast of British Columbia. And what can you tell
our audience about your nation? Well, for one,
our surrounding territory is absolutely beautiful.
It always has been. We're right at the head of
the Douglas Channel. Very fortunate in our geographical
location, we have a port, deep sea port that
doesn't freeze throughout the year. So in terms
of economic opportunity, they're very fast in
terms of that fact. But we've got about 2 ,000
Haisla members that are currently on our band
list. We've got about 1 ,000 of them that reside
here locally on reserve. And then the rest reside
elsewhere in the province and the world. We're
growing continuously through van transfers and
through births. So we've grown about twice in
size since I've been in my elected position.
So it is great to have and to see so many of
our people wanting to come home. And the territory
you've not signed, you're not a signatory to
any treaties? No, no. Actually, within that process,
we had been participating, going through treaty
negotiations when I first came to work with our
nation in 2005, 2006. However, with the blessing
of our community, we actually stepped away from
those negotiations because we had felt that.
we were able to achieve a lot of the self -determining
goals that we had. We were able to see that we
were able to do that without participating within
the treaty process. So we have been away from
that table for nearly 10 years or so. Does that
present any risks to partners? We'll be talking
about Pembina later in the conversation. Does
that cause them any concern that there's no treaty?
You know, I wouldn't necessarily say it would
cause any risk to Pemina. I think for the most
part, when I take a look at and witness some
of the work they have been doing, a large part
of the work that they have been doing is with
treaty nations. However, in regards to working
in B .C., we've been able to accomplish a large
part of that self -determining outside of the
treaty through making the decisions to do everything
that gives us the ability to make the decisions
outside of treaty on our own already. And I think
in terms of the importance and values that both
the province and the feds are placing in UNDRIP
and all of these you know, respecting Indigenous
rights, I think alleviates a lot of that risk
that would potentially be associated with a partnership
with a community like mine. Excellent. Great
to hear. And your nation has a history of industrial
development in your territory. Do you want to
speak a little bit about, you've talked about
the Alcan and now Rio Tinto. Aluminum smelter
on your territory. LNG Canada, a shell -led consortium
on your territory. Maybe you could say a little
bit about that history. So our community has
experienced industrial development for the past
70 years. Like I mentioned, our geographic location
is one that definitely allows for many opportunities.
to happen here. The aluminum smelter was built
70 years ago and has successfully ran for the
past 70 years in our territory through a modernization
that happened with their technology in 2009.
We also had, at the time, a pulp and paper mill
that was operational. Unfortunately, it closed
down in 2000. I would say 2007 or 2008, it shut
down. And then we had a methanol plant that was
operating here as well. Now the difference between
those and today's opportunity is our nation did
not have a part in participating in any of those
industries when it came to having a say in how
those... those were built and how they operated
or a share in those opportunities, whether it
was through contracts, through the construction
or through operations and very limited opportunity
when it came to employment for our members. So
while our region had suffered economically in
terms of those, the two operations shutting down.
We didn't see much of an impact in terms of taking
care of our own membership because there was
just simply not enough employment opportunities
within the mill or the methanol plant. So LNG
is not something that is new to our territory
as well. We own a parcel of land on the west
side of the Douglas Channel called Bish Cove.
And in the early 80s, our leadership at the time.
saw an opportunity that it would be utilized
for industrial development. And at the time,
we had a import facility of LNG being proposed
for that site, which unfortunately did not happen.
However, our people had zoned that parcel of
land for industrial purposes. Later, it would
become an expert facility. where many different
companies had come in and proposed a facility
for that site. At one time, within the last 10,
15 years, we had about five LNG facilities being
proposed for our territory, LNG Canada being
one of them, and the Kitimat LNG facility, which
was led by Chevron, being two of the more prominent,
longer -standing proposals for our territory.
And we were fortunate enough to be a large part
of LMG Canada's, you know, how they were designing
the facility when work would be done. We had
a very large responsibility in participating
within that project and having our say when it
came to our cultural relevance in our territory.
very active with LNG Canada and Coastal Gas Link
and we're fortunate to see a positive FID in
2018 and we're nearing the completion of the
construction and hopefully within the next year
or so we will see the first cargo leave our territory
of LNG heading to Asia and to see the plant operating.
Yeah, that's fantastic and there have been some
big days. 2018, getting LNG Canada to their FID
decision, positive decision. And then recently
CEDAR, LNG and its positive decision. You've
got a lot to celebrate. Curious about the LNG
arrangement. You talked about how involved Heysel
Nation was. Was that through, that wasn't through
equity, was that through a contractual arrangement?
That was through, so with LNG Canada, we have
our impact benefit agreements with them. So in
terms of that conversation, we didn't have, through
that project, we do not have any equity through
LNG Canada. However, we established very... important
relationships at the beginning to have our opportunity
to be active participants to that project. Maybe
we could just spend some time talking about what
it was like to be in the community. At the time,
you had Alcan there, huge projects, some other
huge investments. You mentioned when they shut
down, it wasn't a big issue for the community
because you hadn't benefited. from it. That's
absolutely amazing. Could you talk a bit more
about what that was like seeing these massive
investments in their physical, right? You could
see them on your territory and you hadn't benefited
from that. What was kind of the view in the community?
Because obviously that shaped how you approached
the Cedar LNG investment. Yeah, so it was a Yurikan
pulp and paper mill and methanol, they're Methanex
plants that that shut down. And through the development
of all the projects in our area, because we had
no share and no say in terms of how they were
developed and how they were built, ultimately
not having a say in the impacts that they would
have in our territory or without having any opportunity
to assist with the mitigation of those impacts.
With the operation of the industry, I remember
growing up in our community and the hooligan,
which is a huge staple of our cultural food here
in our territory, it would run in the Kitimat
River. They were abundant in many different areas,
rivers here in our territory. And I remember
growing up and listening to my grandparents talk
about how we were losing them and never really
understood why. I could just sense the urgency
in my grandparents as they spoke about it and
how they were able to taste and to smell effluent
in the Ulican that they would catch. There were
a tremendous amount of impacts in terms of the
impact on our culture through those operations.
And for the fact that, you know, we even up to
where they were still operating, would hear about
the limited opportunity and the lack of desire
of any of those operations that would want to
see any of our people become successful through
employment in their operations. So when Methanex
shut down, I believe we had maybe a handful,
if not two or three members working within their
facility. So when Methanex shut down, we had
our departments actively looking for not only
employment and how their skills would be able
to be transferred to any other opportunity that
we saw in our territory. But we were very fortunate
to have a boat. 20 joint venture partners that
would have operations that they would have projects
in other parts of BC, if not Canada. So we quickly
would have our staff either provide training
opportunities to enhance their skill set, or
they would be able to transfer their existing
skills to our JVs. And the same occurred when
when your can shut down, you know, I wasn't a
part of our elected leadership at the time. However,
I remember coming into this office and hearing
that the urgency around the members that did
have employment there about what their futures
would look like. But again, very small, maybe
a handful to 10 members that had employment there
that essentially lost everything. They lost their
retirement savings when ERCAN decided to shut
down. But we quickly again. the nation came to
work for those members to find opportunity. But
I remember a few, I believe it was council members
of the District of Kitimat asking us to save
Iroquois. And at the time, we simply asked, why?
Yes. We're able to meet our people's needs that
are having issues with employment. And we went
from there. And it did largely shape how we worked
with industry. It shaped what we would never
accept as a part of economic development in our
territory and the impacts that it did have on
our environment. We pushed for decisions. held
companies responsible for for to be able to never
see what happened with your canon with methanix
in our territory again wow thank you very much
uh chief crystal we're going to have you back
for a second podcast to go into cedar lng which
is the world's first indigenous majority owned
And I think it's one of Canada's largest Indigenous
-led infrastructure projects and certainly one
of the biggest infrastructure projects in the
country. So we'll continue with that on our next
podcast. Thank you very much. Rob, would you
like to wrap up the podcast? Well, I just want
to thank Chief Crystal once again for her time
this morning. Really interesting, personal and
community. history and background that helped
set the scene for the discussion about Cedar
LNG. So thank you again for joining us. Thank
you for having me. Thank you.