Alright guys, we are here today for the first ever episode of
The Sovereign Music Podcast.
And we're here with a very special guest today because this guy is
actually one of my personal friends that I've met within the music and
also the tech space and you know, he's taken quite a big dive, you
know, into what he's doing with his musical talent, his tech talent
and we talk a lot about other things such as spirituality
and earthy movements and vibrations.
So it's glad for me first of all to introduce Nat Nye to The Sovereign
Music Podcast and this is again the first ever episode.
So here we go.
Introduce yourself, bro.
Let the people know who you are, what you're about and what you do.
Well, first and foremost, I want to say give thanks to my brother.
It's an honor to be on the first, the premiere episode of The Sovereign
Podcast and also we're connected because I'm a Scat's London community
builder and yeah, the coin scum movement as well.
I'm glad to play my little role and testify on my journey on this Bitcoin
journey, this Stacks Bitcoin journey.
So yeah, yeah, I go by Nat Nye, the lyrical alchemist, my artist.
I'd say my artist first and foremost, my artist before anything
else because that's my purpose.
I work through the arts.
I get to deliver my purpose.
My purpose is to enlighten and empower for transformative change in the
world and the arts is my medium to do so.
But we've got other mediums and I find that artists need to be empowered
and this is why Bitcoin connects with me because it's the movement
for empowerment and artists working with Bitcoin can be empowered
so that we can have self-autonomy.
Otherwise, we have to play so much chess games and we have to compromise
a lot in order to navigate our way in the industry.
I can see how we can build our own with Bitcoin.
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
So we'll get into that talk a little bit later again, right?
Like, because for those of you who are joining us for the first time
or coming from, let's say, the traditional music world, part of the
reason for us doing this podcast is to bring technology and musicians
together and exploring what technology musicians are actually using
to get their music out, distribute and also to receive return on their
music and also to build communities for their fans.
So we've seen a lot happen obviously to the music industry over the
past five, ten, fifteen years.
So when did you first actually get into music?
What was the thing that was it from a young age thing or was it
something that came to you later on?
So I've always loved music, always loved it, but the practice of music
actually really comes through spoken words.
So my foundation as an artist, as a proper artist, not the little
plating that you do when you're young, as a proper artist, is through
spoken word and through like, I love hip hop, I love rap.
So I'm always, I'm listening to that every single day.
It's not a day that I don't work by the way, I'm not listening to
something I have to do, I have to act into something.
And my style is very much influenced by rap, very much influenced.
The instrumental can vary, but my style, my spoken word style is very
much influenced by the rap.
So I put that into the style and yeah, naturally as a spoken word artist,
you have waves where people think that it might just break to mainstream
and it doesn't.
The tide rises, it gets higher and higher and higher, people get excited,
the wave gets, and then it comes back down.
So most spoken word artists either go into theater or they go into music
or they go into different branches.
For me, music is just a part of my soul.
And I just think like you put something over a beat, then it's just going to
hit, it's just going to connect to people in a deeper way than generally
speaking, than a cappella.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Generally speaking.
And I suppose as well as there's two sides to that, isn't it?
Because when you've got the beat, like a lot of what we see, let's say
in the past, I'd say 10 years maybe, a lot of people are paying attention
to lyricism that are, let's say music lovers, but the average person
is still kind of like the beat.
You know, but I think it can kind of work both ways because the beat
kind of gets people sucked in.
Maybe the beat is the infectious part, right?
And then the words, it's the way that the words hit when they're a cappella
and the fact that people listen to what you're actually saying.
And obviously in the case of spoken word, it's not battle rap.
Yeah.
So people can figure it out a lot easier, you know, or resonate with it,
shall I say, a lot easier.
But what you said also brings me on to that second question, which was
like what was for you kind of like, let's say some of, or one of your
big break moments, like one of the moments that you've had since you've
been doing spoken word, since you've been doing music that was like,
hey, this is going to be, lead me on to the next thing.
It's going to be it, right?
You know, whether that be like, you know, you went into a record deal,
whether you took the deal, you did take the deal, doesn't matter.
Like what was, what was that point where you thought, hey, this could
kind of be a make or break moment.
Such a good question.
That's a real, real good question.
Because for me, I came into this kind of aware of what I go on.
I wasn't unaware.
So my influences, do you know David Jay, the vocal pugilist?
Sounds familiar.
I wear a hat, dress up, real smart.
It sounds so familiar, you know, but no, not the top of my head anyway.
Not the top of my head.
Okay.
So yeah, Godfather, you used to call him the Godfather.
And I was influenced a lot by him when I first saw him.
I was like, wow.
Basically I went to three different shows in the, stand innovation each
time and three different demographics as well.
So you have the Pan-African look, the R&B like sweet way, black crowd,
like the woman, and then the next one where it's just multi, like
multicultural, white people, Asian people, black people, everybody there.
And each of them blown away by him.
I was influenced by him a lot.
So I knew what the industry was.
So at the time I was connected with Ramp House.
Yeah.
I was an associate poet there.
And I guess because of the opportunities that they provide, like main space
Ramp House, we performed that, we had our own event there, then festivals.
So it was going to do the festival circuit with them.
I guess that was where I fought that.
Yeah.
This is, but at that time I was like, I don't need no Ramp House.
I don't need no institution.
Go solo.
Yeah.
Really quickly there.
No, you do need your institution.
So, so, so again, like, sorry, with that as well.
So you just, you just go right into like the next question again.
But what was that?
Like, what was, what was, let's say that ceiling or, or maybe the problem.
What was, what was, let's say, can you, if you could identify maybe one
or two key problems that you found with that big break moment where you was like,
Hey, I'm on the cusp of being able to, to blow this into something new.
Like, what was the thing?
Because as you said, at that time, when this happens, generally for musicians,
producers, whatever you're on top of the world, Hey, you know, I've got this
record deal or I've got this distribution deal, or I'm going to perform here.
Or, you know, I'm down with this crew or whatever it is.
Right.
So what was that, that, that feeling like when you started and what were
the things that kind of became these barriers kind of to, to, to you taking
that next step or maybe that production pushing it further?
Yeah.
I think, okay.
So self-responsibility and accountability mindset.
And, and, and just not knowing like, this is a business.
It's we're artists, but it's a business.
Number one is a business and businesses are dependent on your
relationships. So to think that you can go and do things by yourself.
And so you're like, it's kind of like a delusion thing.
You need to have relationships and you need to have relationships with
organizations and institutions and yeah, be it that institution might be
distribution, it might be whatever the institution might be relevant,
record label, but a record label that can do you, do something for you.
Something for you.
Yeah.
Or if it's management, they can do something for you.
It's not like admin basically.
Yeah.
They can end up being like, it's like they have to be able to open.
Okay.
If you've got connections to this and that market that is relevant to
you or you know, these type of things.
So if you're going to go well now I'm like, right.
I'm there was never really a space open for someone like me.
Like to be honest, not really a space open.
Really.
I've been able to like I said, perform at certain festivals.
I've been able to be at certain buildings, perform at the V&A and
you know, Tate and all of that.
Yeah.
American Embassy have done Princess Anne reception, world reception for
her and those little things.
Yeah.
But the industry don't want an artist like myself.
Yeah.
I don't want it.
Yeah.
There's like, there's like, and you hear this quite a lot.
There's like, you know, and even recently in something that I've been
doing as well, it's the same thing going on with some of the other
artists I'm working with.
And it's you're getting the industry have a way of pigeonholing people.
Yeah.
Right.
Like, whereas whatever's popping, you know, we often hear that because
it's not sound like whoever or whatever's popping that it doesn't have an audience.
And I think obviously, again, we'll get into this maybe a little bit in
a little bit, but I think the online thing has obviously brought a lot
more, not only eyes, but a lot more niche pockets for everybody.
Because, you know, as we often say, there's something for everyone, isn't there?
Right.
You know, there's always, there's always a buyer and there's always a seller.
So, so in the end of the day, like what you're saying is that that experience,
one of the biggest challenges of that experience is being able to kind of
grab hold of, let's say, an audience for your niche and then the traditional
industry also being able to, let's say, see your vision or get behind your vision.
Maybe.
And that seems to be something that's, you know, been forever plague of the
music industry because in the end of the day, as you said at the beginning,
music industry and music businesses, they are businesses.
They want to make money, right?
So they will go pretty much like with anything that is the latest money
making vehicle and we see that all the way from, you know, let's say Elvis
and rock and roll all the way around to where we are now, you know, with
the current music landscape and it's like, I know a lot of the time we want
to call it the powers that be, but I don't think it's more the powers that be.
I think it's just the way that you should expect the business to work.
And when you understand that it is a business, you understand that there
may be a label or maybe a distributor or maybe a production house for you,
but it's just much easier to find them now because we're not coming from,
let's say this era of where we've had to do everything, you know, yellow pages
and phone book era, right?
Yeah.
Let's say, yeah.
So, so yeah, it's interesting to hear that, that just the pigeonholing
thing is even still an issue, you know, in the wider, wider thing, but then
you've got also more people now, you know, in totalitarianism, you know,
totalitarian, right?
Sorry, in total, you know what I mean?
Right?
So you've got totally more people across the board in terms of fans and artists.
So although there's more, let's say niches to be, to be explored, there's
more people exploring niches and then when something blows up or gets steam,
it really gains traction.
And now everybody's just focused on that, like mesmerization, right?
So everyone's just focused on this particular niche.
So if you're a guy that's over here doing something, you know, you still
got to get your ball rolling up to that point that it even gets recognized,
you know, in that big sea of artists.
So it's very interesting that that's like a train of thought that you're
going down with, you know, the way that you see things.
And then as well, I like the fact that it's like accountability, right?
Because we all got to take accountability for decisions that we
decide to make in the end of the day on where we want to go on our
own individual journeys, you know, facts, see that in music or business
and family and life, whatever it is.
Right?
So, so, so yeah, so, so one of the other things I'll ask, right,
going from there is if, if you're finding it difficult to, let's say,
find a niche, find this place, find people to help you, right?
Because, you know, there's no iron team, as we say, right?
So, so, so obviously these things are things that you're either
spending time or money.
And as a musician, you know, I would say that all of us, we don't,
we don't necessarily want, let's say, the pop star position or the
fame position, but all of us would like to somehow fund or be able
to fund and endeavor to, to, to, to, you know, use these talents and,
and, and get some kind of return.
So what, what challenges did you face, let's say, or have you faced
over time in monetizing your actual efforts, you know, so, so, so
going back to those days when you were, you know, going with Radhouse,
you were doing this, that what was your outlook on how you monetized
then compared to what we've seen with monetization and how you
would then think about monetizing in today's age?
That's an excellent question.
And yeah, so for me in them days there as well, I wasn't busy
mind at all.
I'm an artist.
I was like, that kind of mindset.
Yeah, yeah.
It's like, what about artists?
Anti-capitalism type, like, you know, certain vegans, we, we,
mutual vegans, we got, like, that's still got that kind of mentality.
Like they put our art first and then everything else comes after.
But, you know, when you see like, actually, for me, I look at
results, like, I'm the lyrical alchemist and I go by that in
multifaceted ways and basically it's connected to science and
with science you need to have results.
So when I'm doing my thing or whatnot in any fashion, it's like,
okay, what is the results?
So when I'm holding a craft and developing it and doing certain
shows, performing, et cetera, connecting with people, money is a part of that.
So, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I've seen like...
Man's got to get a boss, man's got to get a trade, get a cab.
Take, gap prices are high.
You understand, right?
So, yeah.
You know what I'm saying?
So like, there's certain shows I'll be doing and it's like, oh my God, you're amazing.
Da da da da da.
And I appreciate it.
I do, I do appreciate it.
But when I'm looking at the coins in my hand afterwards and like, that's
not really a match, it's not really matching, they're amazing.
It's like getting the compliments, but the money is not matching that.
So it got to a point where monetization, I've had to shift.
I've had to be more business-minded.
I'm still on that journey, still working on it as well, because for me,
this is a message and that kind of...
But now I'm like, basically, can you be a prophet without money in this capitalist world?
Activism costs no one.
It costs no one.
So...
Freedom of expression, but it's not free to express, bro.
It's not free to express.
As you said, like, you know, you have to fund everything.
Or you have to find the money all the time and the energy, which is basically what money quantifies.
You have to find it somewhere.
You have to find it to rehearse.
You have to find it to put...
Even to create what you're creating and then to deliver it.
You have to find that to deliver it in the studio or to even deliver it on stage,
wherever it be, you have to find it.
So I'm still on that journey of valuing what I do.
So maybe six, seven years ago or something like that, I started to shift in terms of mindset.
So if someone asks me to perform one or asks me for a commission or whatever,
I'm able to somewhat get a greater value than, yeah, yeah, I'll do it.
And then...
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, don't worry, bro.
I love this.
I love this, man.
Don't worry, man.
Just stick me to Cypher, bro.
I'm cool.
Done.
Like, yeah, no, I'm like, yeah, I need to get some form of value for it.
And also knowing if you're dealing with the corporate world, you deal with them differently
to how you deal with the community or your bridgeheads.
Of course, like, your bridgeheads are more tempted to do things for free,
but you have to understand that if you, if night come approaching today,
you're not going to charge them the 200.
You're going to charge them a couple of bills even.
You're going to charge them appropriately.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.
And a lot of people, I think this is, again, just sorry, just to go back to the points
that you was making before.
Again, in those early days, and again, just to say what the early days are,
because I know there's going to be some young bucks like back in the day,
that's what I'm saying to you.
So early days, we're talking about like pre-streaming, pre-streaming era.
So like in the pre-streaming era, if Nike had come to somebody,
it's yo, you know what, dude be like gassed, like, out of this world,
hey, you know, give me a pair of Jordans and I'm signing away my mask.
You know what I'm saying to you, right?
So, so, and it was, I think the culture back then,
it was a lot easier for people to not understand and to jump into those situations
because the stack was always like, the stack to somebody who's brand new
would always be, hey, I kind of find a way to record a demo
and then I take that demo to a label or an A&R and then I get signed,
in which point they're kind of, you know, in that trap already.
If they don't know what they're signing, right?
So, so, and when they're signed, it's even worse
because the endorsement deals that come in,
like, you know, the big brands like we'll say Nike and everybody else,
these are all now coming in through the label, right?
So they're not coming to the person directly.
They're not even dealing with that.
So, so when they get a pair of Jordans, they have to do it.
It doesn't matter whether they want to do it or not, right?
Because the labels say, well, look, you know, if you want to get paid, bro,
you're going to have to do this Nike advert for the pair of Jordans
and hey, you know, we were unable to get you more.
And probably in the background, the labels maybe cut 50k off of that deal,
you know what I'm saying to you, right?
So, so, yeah, so, so, so sorry.
So, yeah, so carry on to what you were saying there
because I didn't want to stop your flow, but what you were saying about just,
again, during that time, you were looking at the money
or the return that you were getting and just not adding it up.
Yeah, it wasn't adding it up, but, you know, it's all a mindset thing
because your journey as well, actually, you've been aware of certain things.
So when you're ready to share them nuggets there, what not, what not.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
There's ones and ones of us who's like aware of certain things
and or just naturally more business minded, savvy than someone like myself.
Like, and we'll be selling the CDs on the roadside.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll be doing that and then earning quite a bit from it as well.
Big up to the man, they are still serving the CDs on the roadside.
But we see you still, there's a couple of men doing it.
Like I had to pull up one you at Stratford, you know, he was sending his thing and that.
I support, you know, I really support guys who do that line,
but I can't do that support of I'm going to randomly buy your thing
and I haven't listened to it anymore because there's we had that whole era of that.
Yes, we did.
Just anyone doing it, you understand what I'm trying to say to you.
Like, to a man with one leg, one arm trying to sell you a CD,
you know, I just say to you, like, I'll buy it because no man has got one arm or whatever.
You go back and listen, like, this is trash, bro.
Like, I can't believe I just gave this for the 10 pound or whatever for this thing.
Right. So, so, so, yes, I'm sorry.
I get carried on from there.
Like, so, so, so from coming from that time of of you seeing this happen,
what was the change or what was the turning point for you where you said,
hey, I can still do this in my own way,
but then also be able to let's say monetize, you know, in my own fashion.
Like, what was the point?
Was it like when you discovered YouTube or or maybe, you know,
use one of those guys selling the fucking CDs, right?
Yeah, just say to you, what was the point?
So, okay, Nipsey Hussle.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Nipsey Hussle, I got into Nipsey Hussle.
My regent didn't tell me about Nipsey Hussle.
A long, long, long time before Nipsey's name blew up.
And I was looking into it, like, I was looking into him and he's very, very business minded.
He was very, very entrepreneurial.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I saw what he did.
You see what he did with the mixtapes, too.
Yeah, with the mixtapes, yeah.
That blew my mind.
I was like, my days.
I tried to do, I didn't do it anywhere close to successful or anything.
But I thought, let me just, I've got this EP, this sort of ethereal sound, spoken word type joint.
Yeah.
And then I thought, four tracks.
And I was like, let me put £10 on that, on Bandcamp.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'll have the CD, I'll send him the CD for £10.
And so people at the time were like, raw, how can you sell only four tracks for £10?
And it was just literally inspired by Nipsey Hussle.
Yeah, yeah.
It got me a little, a little sudden, sudden little change.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It was okay.
Yeah.
But from that point on, I started to, and really and truly, the realisation of all of my knowledge
is going to be happening now, to be honest, because it's been a journey.
I tried that and it got me a little sudden, it got me by, but I haven't executed.
And the reason why I haven't executed properly, because the streaming didn't appeal to me,
because it's fractions of a penny.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And social media, I've always had a struggle with social media.
I'm a person-to-person type person.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So online, I've always had a struggle with navigating online,
like being consistent and consistently posting every day,
or even disconnecting online, like on a consistent basis.
Yeah.
Always had an issue with that.
I more prefer this, that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Talking to the man there, that, actually.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Always preferred that.
So the realization of my knowledge and applying it into my art is really happening,
or it's about to happen.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's putting everything together.
And to be honest, it's crypto, where I've felt, right, this is where things can really,
I can gain equity for my artistic output.
For yourself, yeah.
Yeah, for myself.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
To get value from what I'm doing, because I'm a perfectionist, which is a problem.
I mean, I thought about it earlier today, like perfectionism is a hindrance to progress.
If you want to get to here, you can't be thinking about shining or wiping the last bit.
Yeah, last bit.
Yeah, you've got to get to there.
There's one little mark on the floor, so we're not going to open today, you know,
actually, to say to you, like, so yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So for me, I'm like, right, now with the streaming and such, even that needs relationships.
You need to have certain relationships with big art, as artists,
you need ones with big platforms to be able to get in there.
To build up from grassroots now, it can still be done,
but that time reading truly was 2008 to 2013, 2014, I feel like, where you could have had organic growth.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Now you have to play the algorithm game and you have to build relationships.
If you want to get on Spotify, you need to have relationships with playlists.
You can put them on a top playlist and such.
Otherwise, you become the 90% of people that, you know, I can't remember the stat,
but every single day, there's an insane amount of content uploaded.
Yeah, that amount, that amount, like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
90% of it doesn't get heard.
It's like zero views or zero streams.
So, or I think it's up from zero to 10, and that's it.
So the mainstream artists basically eat up everything else.
And then you have the rest, like the independent artists who are business savvy,
and you said earlier about building communities and stuff.
They are the ones who get their little section of it.
So the mainstream artists dominate, and then you have the independent artists
that are business savvy that get their section of it.
And then they're able to, then once you're able to really master the team,
they're able to, off their community, they're able to gain even more
on a personal level in terms of real money than the even the mainstream artists.
That's what I need to do now.
I need to get my ducks in a row and then execute upon the knowledge.
Yeah, yeah.
I know we're going to get into it, but with things I love about crypto and Bitcoin,
it applies to, and to be successful in that world, it applies to being successful as an artist.
The same rules apply. You have to have a community.
Yeah, yeah.
You have to. You have to deliver for that community.
You have to. You have to communicate with that community.
You have to.
If you want a successful project in crypto, if you've got your own, you have to communicate.
You have to have a community. You have to constantly communicate.
You have to have good energy. Wag me. You have to have the wag me.
Artists, you have to have the wag me.
You're saying to the community, we're all going to make it because
I'm delivering something that you're not saying you need, right?
You're supplying me with the funds we're able to get. Wag me.
Yeah, we're all going to make it.
I think it's a sharing thing, right? And there's a sharing of value in it, right?
And then again, we'll get into this a little bit later and then we'll get up to some of the podcast apps
where you'll be able to find the podcast later, like Founding,
and the Lightning Network podcast 2.0 algorithms,
where some of you maybe are listening to this on those at the time.
But yeah, it is literally a value creation, value share.
Some people, the people I'd say that are the consumers of your music
that are paying or paying to stream it, those people are sharing the value that they've created,
which is the demon monetary value, and you are sharing your artistic value
or your value or opinion or your creative value in what you have created.
So it's an exchange of value, essentially.
And it's an equitable one at that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're not going to say to you.
For both parties, it works, especially when the artist, as you said,
has got this community that they monetized with, that they're either giving rewards or something back to,
or maybe lessening the load on their monetary contributions.
So at times, I think, you know, V for V for me,
at times when the artist is unable to give back to the community,
the community is supporting the artist.
And at times when the artist is able to now give back to the community,
the artist is supporting the community.
And a lot of that community are going to be other people that are artists,
that are creators, that are not just fans, that maybe want to create something, to do something new.
So, you know, artists meeting the artist even is a very cool thing, you know,
that a lot of, let's say, more reputable or more known artists tend to do like it means, right?
Saying, you know, hey, and that provides value to the listener,
because the listener has this kind of almost like morale boost or moment of happiness
where they're able to meet their favorite artist and talk to them and share ideas
and maybe connect on a more personal level.
And you've already connected on, let's say, a vibrational level,
because you are putting out music that this person is listening to.
And this person is listening to you because they are thinking what you're saying or what you're making, right?
And you vibrate on it, so you're frequency.
So, yeah, man, it's a key thing.
And with kind of like what you've got coming or what you've got doing,
are you pulling away from, let's say, the old hard copies model,
or do you see that hard copy physical stuff can still blend with the digital realm?
100%.
I was at this venue the other day and they had a vinyl player and I put on the headphones
and I was like, wow, no, I need a vinyl.
Yeah, we love a bit of vinyl.
Yeah, I think Kane Mayfield, he's got a vinyl, right?
Yeah, Kane's got a vinyl for the Dust record.
For those of you who don't know, there's a fantastic artist and hopefully we'll be able to get him on a further season.
But Kane Mayfield, man, fucking this Dust project that he's put out, like hard money, hard copies, you know,
definitely, definitely, definitely got a plan.
And that being said, I think there's a lot of us in that space that, you know, we kind of understand where the chips fall
and that we can do multiple of these things.
We can have the hard copy stuff in with the digital stuff and then also the ownership and the distribution.
So, yeah, sorry, go on, you were saying, yeah, so with yourself and the hard copy stuff.
For me, it's just all about value.
Like, I see what a lot of us in our space and the ones that we know in there, what we do is of a certain quality.
And I feel this is what I'm saying in terms of value, that what I produce, I don't want it to be like a McDonald's
or even less than that, like a Penny Sweet.
You know that Penny Sweet?
Put it in the Penny Sweet.
This is, do you remember that after eight?
Yeah, after eight.
I used to save those chocolates.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
After eight was like the thing where you see when your mum or your nan breaks out the after eights, bro,
you're like, you're just plotting, you understand, right?
Because that's the thing, that's the chocolate that don't, the chocolate that don't come out of the cupboard.
It doesn't come out.
It don't come out of the cupboard, bro, until it's like Christmas or whatever.
And then you go for the special, the special thing that you get, the box of quality or the roses or something.
Exactly. So that's what I'm producing.
So it needs to be valued like that.
So vinyl gives me that feel, like Bitcoin gives me that feel, Stacks gives me that feel, gives me that feel.
Like what I'm putting here is I've put so much energy, love and respect into this thing here.
And so it needs to be distributed in that fashion.
So for me, yeah, as soon as I can, I want to have the vinyl, I want to have the ordinals, I want to have the Stacks NFTs,
I want to have it in those different fashions.
And yeah, I'll use the streaming platforms as a means for like window shopping.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like get the...
But where I'm going to get the value for what I do is in those means.
And also, I think it's just important for artists to understand value of themselves and what they're producing and how that should be represented.
Because when you are following the mainstream fashion, like for a start, like you're relying on the middlemen who are giants.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And they basically select.
And what a lot of people don't think about is the difference in budget.
If they can afford to, if they're really behind you and they give you 500k plus a milli, they give you that level of budget,
then and they're pushing you, they're making sure they link you up to this one, that one, that one, that one, that one,
getting you what would be the type of deals, getting you set up for award shows, getting you hooked up with the right type of artists that can take you up, level up collaborations, all that kind of stuff.
You've got that boost, then it increases your chances of being successful.
Whereas if you haven't got that, even if you're signed, you're not guaranteed to get that.
They can shelf you, which they do to most artists, to be honest.
It's better for you to, or for me, I want to go down that journey.
I never did want to have no interest in going down that journey.
For me, it's more about cultivating that community and giving them the value and that they are the biggest advocates for what I do.
Then they can share the news so that we can grow this together.
Together, yeah.
Ultimately, where I see it is I'm a vessel for the message anyway.
Yeah.
That being said, what do you see, because I feel a bit over there, we'll come to that back in a second,
but what do you see as the major change in monetization models that we see currently?
Because you touched on it there with saying, hey, these are Spotify's, the Apple Music is more like, really for you,
these are more like the marketing platforms and maybe distributing the dairy milk.
Because even the Cadbury's and the chocolates and the Sweeties example, you know what I'm trying to say to you.
You've got, as I said, the quality shoot or the after rates and the roses, and that was the special stuff.
The scarce stuff, limited.
You can only get that in the Easter, the Christmas, whatever.
You've got the everyday stuff like, and then no diss to Mars or anything like that.
But you've just got a bog stand in Mars, bro.
I'm trying to say to you, the dairy milk on an everyday basis.
So with that in the music, in essence, what you're saying then is the quality stays the same throughout,
but there is a certain music or certain amount of your music or your art that you're working on that is meant for marketing,
let's say, or for the wider crowd.
And then there is that niche that the people who want what you're providing,
the people who want that value, who are exchanging the value with you, that they're looking for.
And that's what you're saying then basically is that, hey, you're trying to hit a two prong approach.
Hey, out here, some stuff is going on over here.
This is some Cadbury's, some dairy milk, and come to the tuck shop.
I was trying to say to you.
And when they come to the tuck shop, it's a bit more like Willy Wonka's factory when they set up.
So they're like, hey, I need a fucking gone ticket.
So yeah, so just like, sorry, again, the question is just where do you see or how do you see
what you're doing now different from current monetization?
So, yeah, I like this analogy still.
So what I'm going to do, my uncle, yeah, he said to me, basically,
and profound thing a couple of weeks ago, you're saying to me, whatever trade or industry you're in,
it's to be successful.
It's about your willingness to be uncomfortable.
Not necessarily your ability to work hard or your actual talent.
It's your willingness to be uncomfortable.
Work well under pressure.
And it's to put yourself in situations where, you know, like so for me, like I said earlier,
social media has been an issue.
So that's where I'm uncomfortable.
So for me, I know they're in that world.
I need to push myself in that way to be successful.
I've only got what, 2,000 followers on IG.
And the vast majority of the people in there, I've actually met or they've seen me perform live.
So you have a more of a direct connection with the people that are following.
I have a more direct connection with the people I'm following.
However, because I've not been so prolific over the years and the algorithm means that 2% of them see me anyway,
it means I need to rebuild that back up.
So because of that, my talk shop is now open.
And this is my plan.
I don't mind saying it.
I want everyone to get something they get.
And, you know, this is sovereign music.
So we want everyone to be sovereign.
So for me, the ideal scenario is that my lab is open.
And so what I'm putting out on social media, what I'm putting out on streaming platforms will be my open lab.
So you will get to see what I do in draft form, essentially.
OK, OK, OK.
You get the journey of it.
So you might even, I might even just do something that I just read or whatnot.
I don't like that look.
But it might be off paper, but you won't see it type thing.
And then people get to informed on the journey of it.
You tell me what they like or whatnot.
And then I add to it if it connects with me and such and such.
And so that was the output that up on the plan is to basically flood that, flood that on social media, flood that on streaming platforms.
Kind of like who's done this?
People are so I was going to say it's that following the story of how you're building, you know, into what you're building.
Yes. And funnily enough, another good artist that we can mention here is Kehlani, right?
She's done the same thing.
She's her thing is is.
And this is, by the way, this is not the bashful Kehlani that you guys know about, you know, the bashful Kehlani.
This is this is an artist. She's a musician that is in Bitcoin space in the Stacks cryptocurrency blockchain ecosystem.
And she literally I think her thing was called My Story or something, her first thing that she started doing.
And she's built up this discord and she's built all of her thing around her creating.
So her writing, her writing schedule, her studio schedule, what she's maybe writing.
And about the difficulty in writing about certain things.
And, you know, she she she she she again, I don't want to give away too much, but you go check out Kehlani.
Again, this is your thing.
So I'm not going to do any super shout outs for people who search for Kehlani Bitcoin Kehlani, you know, Stacks ecosystem.
And she she basically kind of took this stance where it was something terrible had happened in her life, in her family.
And she basically told the story of that through music, but then also broke down how difficult it was for her to be able to put that story into her music and why she did it.
And she made that into kind of almost what her content is.
So when you when you go and watch her channel or you jump to Instagram or whatever, her content is constantly about what she is doing to create.
And then she will maybe release that as an artwork or a single or a video or something at some point.
But literally, she is taking every single person that's watching through this journey or today I came up with a song title.
And by the time it's finished, hey, this is the release of that song title that three months ago, you know, I was talking about.
Right. Yeah. So so, yeah, so I can definitely resonate that and that definitely gets a lot of people again, because it's a value exchange.
So it makes people resonate with, hey, maybe I'm in my bedroom trying to create music as well.
And there's something that I wanted to talk about that I thought was difficult to talk about.
And now I've seen her experience, then it makes it much easier for me to come to terms with what I'm trying to do.
The key thing out of that is authenticity. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cool.
That is it. Yeah, 100 percent. And I've been just being real like like.
And that's the thing being a perfectionist now. And you want everything to be shined and clean.
And we want everyone to see the perfect. They come see you now.
They're oh, my God, how did you even do that? But authenticity makes mistakes, bro.
Authenticity makes mistakes. That's it.
And people want to connect with something that's authentic, especially nowadays, actually, because we've moved from the era
that no one is saying that the era of like it was kind of like any kind of celebrity you see of that time, anyone who's made it into mainstream,
you kind of get a package that is perfect. Even if it's gangster rap, it's still a perfect package.
You don't get to see actually that downside is you get these superhero type characters.
But that we shifted from that social media area now is where like you have to show yourself.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. All sides of yourself.
And I think I think that kind of came through with the DVD era as well, because the DVD era was like, you know, you know,
whether you want to say it's the American ones or the UK ones or whatever, the DVD era was not just man them freestyle in front of the camera.
It was like people go into where these guys live, you know, going almost like MTV Cribs and some of the DVDs,
because it's got going to where these guys live, taking the camera to them. Right. You know, like, you know, me and then, as I said to you before, you know,
we used to do this big street verbals, right. You know, and that was before S.D.
That was like before there was YouTube existed. You understand. And I think at the time there was maybe one or two.
There was no load of the mics. There was no load of the decks yet.
Like there was maybe one or two. I think I think that there was I mean, Risky Rhodes, I think that came later, didn't it?
But there was a few other guys that were doing similar things, right.
And it was all kind of taken from the Americans of the smash, Maggie and the cocaine city and whatever, you know.
But but but one of the things that I think we found unique about what we were doing at that time is we were just going everywhere.
You understand. So we just pull up on the ends.
Yo, brother, you call you man. Good. Boom, boom, boom.
And a lot of the times, we were pulling up to ends. It was a madness because we were pulling up and we were rolling.
And we got the whip, the whips tinted and, you know, man skidded up on man.
There's loads of occasions where we skid up in a man's estate or whatever.
And they're like, you know, who's that kind of thing?
Yeah. Man are all getting ready. You understand that.
Man are all getting ready to draw for certain things or whatever. We have found that.
You know, but it's all love. Yeah. We come to see what's going on in your ends.
You understand what I'm trying to say. Who's the guys that are doing this thing?
Who's the guy that are rapping, producing, whatever?
And just and just showing that side. So, again, like you said, like showing that that authenticity, we never when we were doing street rap,
we never wanted to ever have it that we were like to structure.
Don't get me wrong. We were organizing with people say, yeah, we're going to come on this day or whatever.
After listening to the second episode, but it was never we didn't want it to be so stiff that if we was in our ends
and some of you rolled up on the street and said, yo, brother, record me that we wouldn't do it.
Yeah. Yeah. But then there's also quality control.
There's also quality control. There's also quality control.
So, so again, so going on from that, right.
So, so how did you when did you start to connect, let's say, the technology side of things?
Because again, although like, you know, this is for yourself, obviously, we know about the crypto, the Bitcoin.
When did you start to connect that I can now use this technology, not just the YouTube, not just for fun, but I can use computing.
Because it's the Internet. So I can use computing to to now take my feet to the next level and use this independently.
What was the kind of the moment for you? Was it the Lily Allen MySpace moment?
Was it the you know, again, was it YouTube? Was it was it?
I think MySpace is the I got you got shout out. Yeah, yeah. MySpace is the OG daddy, right?
It's the daddy. But yeah, for me, that's never been my strength. So I didn't even.
Yeah, I did. I didn't make the most of it. Like, if I could go back to my younger self now, I was more interested in performing.
That's what I was interested in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Real life performances. Yeah.
But if I could go back to my younger self, I would be like, no, like balance.
Like you need to focus on on using MySpace. Definitely. Because MySpace was hot.
Yeah, yeah. And then yeah, YouTube as well back then.
So the realization for me has come very, very late, to be honest.
It's come and it's because I'm purpose driven and I'm like things have to connect with me.
So if I if I was utilizing these these technology forms back then, I'd be in a much stronger position than I am now.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a fact. But yeah, it is it is web free. It is web free.
Yeah, yeah. It's really connected. Because I know when we first met, you were like, because you also and definitely shout that out as well.
Shout out Stella as well. Yes. Yes, my other hook.
So maybe we could explore that a little bit like when you discovered like web free and then you started to put on events, didn't you, for artists and creators to teach them about web free, you know.
So let us know a little bit more about that. Yeah. So OK. So yeah. OK. So basically, before that point, I'm still on a journey of learning.
And yes, streaming didn't really connect with me because the fractures of the penny. I go deep into everything I go into. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I did it really connect. Oh, if I'm putting a million, three thousand out of a million, that's a lot of work for that.
But basically, it got to Patreon came out and Patreon was interesting.
Bangcamp. That's where I went to actually. Bangcamp. Yeah. And you know, I was talking to this clip by the same day, Bangcamp is like, you know, really kind of the spot, which it was like it's like it's like the best monetization for musicians in the web too world, isn't it?
Yes. So yeah, yeah. Bangcamp is where I went to, but I didn't. I put my first EP on there. That's where I put my EP. But I didn't again, I didn't utilize it as much as I should have, like anywhere close to it.
It's kind of dormant, but I did use it and Bangcamp was, Bangcamp is good. I rate Bangcamp. But Patreon came out. That was interesting. I didn't use that either.
There was a UK version of that startup that Stella and I were both involved in.
And it didn't work out because, you know, the mentality is different. And for me, I've got this huge vision, this massive vision.
And I just see things way beyond the industry. Like we've been doing music for thousands of years before the music industry even existed.
So I'm like, they are not the standard bearers for me. They're the standard bearers.
They're not the arbiters of what you want to do.
They're not the arbiters of what I want to do. I see that. I'm like, yo, I'm the lyrical alchemist.
I'm around at a time when we build pyramids with poetry, with lyrics, like the power of music. Music is like, it's so downplayed the level of power it has.
But we know it when it comes on, when a certain beat comes on, depending on where you're at.
You can't listen to, well, I say you can't, but classical music is not going to make you feel the same way in the gym.
Yeah, of course, of course, because all the vibrations have different, I guess, different vibrations, different resonance.
And it connects with you. You're going to access to what you're going to do with the music.
So the way I'm like, I just see that we can build our own industry.
So this startup kind of offered that, but they're like the people, the money people behind it, they don't have that mindset.
They're more seeing how they can do what a patron's going to expect from streaming and earn money from it.
And that's it. I'm like, we can build a whole ecosystem. It didn't work out.
But when the NFT team blew up, when that got crazy, and I dig deeper into it and be like, this is not what NFTs is.
Everyone's thinking that NFTs is the profile picture. But that's not what NFTs is.
It's the contract that says ownership. So I'm like, in my head, like, wow, this is, so the word I was looking for,
the phrase I was looking for earlier is that. And in terms of the Ferrero Rocher and the...
The Ferrero Rocher, Manu Truer, the Ruffalo and that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Is that basically it's fine art. There's a difference between fine art and the rep.
It's the Fortons.
It's that. So I can see how NFTs can... and now Audionauts has come out. I can see how that can really give you all Audionauts as well.
I can see how that can place value on what you do. So now, I think it's like two years ago, we reconnected.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you're Bitcoin Wiz.
I was flirting with the other blockchains. I was flirting with them. I was thinking Ethereum.
I don't really like the idea of the transaction speed and the transaction cost as well.
I was thinking I want to make this accessible to as many people as possible. And certain people, if they pay a certain amount,
and then they have to pay on top of that just for... Just to access it or... Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course.
Then I didn't want to do that. So then other ones were paying to me like Tezos or Nier.
So I was flirting with Tezos and I was flirting with Nier and Algorand. I was flirting with them both.
Because fast transaction speeds and it's like pennies for... What does this say? Transaction fees.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. TX fees, yeah. Yeah, like pennies. So it's not really...
It's not impacting the cost consumer to pay. It's like a delivery fee.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's nothing. So I was flirting with them. But again, everything is purpose driven for me.
So when I went to a Nier conference and the founder of Nier was there and everyone was asking questions.
I asked my question, I was like, yo, what is your dream? What is the view this is in 30 years?
And he gave me this kind of neutral response. I didn't think worse of him. I didn't think better of him.
It was just like, okay, that's not... But every time I hear Bitcoin is now, it's like we are here to change money.
And that passion behind that really just connects with me. So linking with you now and you breaking down like, yo, we've got an L2 here that could basically work.
Like put you in a Bitcoin ecosystem and the emphasis and the priority of Bitcoin.
So anyone that links to you is going to know about Bitcoin. But know about the importance of Bitcoin.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not just a way that you can generate more fear. That's not your message at all.
You're just basically saying if you want to have autonomy, if you want to have sovereignty, if you want to be free, then where else are you going to get that from?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's literally what it is. And funnily enough, I'm glad that you mentioned that L2 stacks and then Bitcoin and then what you can do L2.
So again, especially for the maxis watching, I would do some differentiation.
So and then I'll ask you the question I'm going to ask. But for me, layer 2s like stacks, rootstock, the layer 2s help with the rights side of things.
Yeah. Right. And the contractual side of things. Yeah. Layer 1 or layer 2s or lightning specifically as a layer 2.
Yeah. Right. Helps with the streaming, the direct payments, you know, side of things.
And that being said even further, right, for those of you who are not, let's say, web free native, crypto native, you don't understand Bitcoin.
As you know, the sovereign music podcast is presented with coins from coins from and also supported by 2140.com.
So if you go to coins from.com, there is a whole glossary that teaches you all of these terms that we've been using, web free Bitcoin, cryptocurrency, blockchain, so on and so forth.
And you can find a whole bunch of learning right there.
And there's also 2140.com, which is a supporter of the podcast and an online magazine that brings culture, money, music all together in one place.
So so with that being said, what I want to ask you, the next question is, is how do you feel about music rights?
Like, have you ever had any problems or come up against any friction dealing with rights like your royalties payments or, you know, just understanding how to to gain your rights for your music?
Well, yes, like the number one thing, not number one thing, but one of the important things that any artist do in the UK is sign up to PRS.
I'm signing up to PRS. I made use of it properly yet.
But you have to sign up to PRS. That's essential.
And the time you perform, you're missing out on whatever because if you're not on PRS, and that's about getting your rights and then you've got your mechanical rights as well that you need to that is attached to the PRS.
But yeah, the NFTs essentially that gives us that, your automated fashion.
Yeah. So so so in other words, with the with the PROS like PRS for the Americans, ASCAP, you know, PPL, you know, these these organizations, do you think that is your view that that that that the future will be that the PROS work with the technology?
Or is it that PROS die, and we only have the technology, self sovereign.
That's such a good question. That's a really good question.
The way I think, I think PROS will still exist.
I don't think they'll completely die.
But the way AI is moving as well.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
The way, like, they're saying basically five years time that the AI will be intelligent as the whole of humanity.
Very hard to see how services, but I think humans always we always find a way to adapt always.
So I don't think it will completely die.
They will find ways to work with the technology, technology, in fact, their survival, if HMV, HMV is still alive, like it's not completely dead, but blockbusters, if they found ways to put themselves position themselves in streaming, they would still be as strong as they were.
But, you know, you have to move.
Yeah, yeah, no, definitely.
And I think what you said before, you mentioned something earlier, you know, we'll get into it. But, you know, with Jim and what he's doing, you know, and we'll have Jim on the show at some point.
So, you know, Jim and what he's doing, like that is something that's come up in his discussions on Bitcoin live, you know, a few times, you know, like technologies that the PROS can use.
And I think that lightning is only one way of maybe the PROS being able to track or use but it's not like, and it's not as, as granularly, granularly sorry, trackable as maybe some of the other L2s or even working with L1 technologies could be.
So it's really the PROS are going to have to play catch up at some point because the artists are doing their own thing.
And just today I tweeted out, you know, we tweeted out on the main profile that Apple had just given into this case, haven't they, right, to allow people to use their own links on their pages.
So, so what Apple, this is only for Europe. So what Apple will be introducing is you can put your website link on your page, and you can also direct people to purchases by direct, right.
So to me that already says that we're, you know, the artist is winning the game, right, the artist is winning here because, because Apple or Spotify or any of the streaming platforms would have never previously allowed you to sell off of their platform.
And it's a fact that Apple have now conceded to saying, hey, we're going to allow developers or music musicians to put their, their website links and take people away from Apple to go and buy from them directly.
And what I read in the article, it also, they're also allowing people to like almost directly advertise so you can, you're allowed to put the messages of this is what you're buying, and this is how much it costs also within that framework.
Yeah, so, so that's going to be really interesting, right, because now I'd say for the average Apple music artist is going to be the ones who are going to benefit the most are the people who have already got a website, who have already got, you know, a channel set up, you know, or funnel set up to be able to get people as a direct community member.
So it's big things man and, yeah, this is getting to what I was saying that Apple, they know how to adapt to it. They constantly adapt.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But the PR rose are going to work for artists that just haven't got the mental capacity to do it.
To handle it, yeah, to do it.
Yeah, right. And that's kind of like the benefit of being early in the crypto space as a whole, in that you can offer service to those that just do not have the mental capacity to do, even the AI stuff, people that have the mental capacity to simply.
Even though they can use the AI to do the AI stuff for them. Yeah, because they don't get it yet, they understand.
So you can provide that service for them. And that's why the PR rose are important in the old will continue to survive because there's going to be, there's X amount of independent artists but there's also Y amount of independent artists that it's literally, it's just too much for them.
That's why the PR rose who position themselves well, can be like, we'll handle that for you.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So you just go to check on your art.
Yeah, 100%.
And so, as soon as we get into a bit of time, a bit over time, but it's fucking great talking to you, always good talking to you bro.
Like, if you were to given, if you were given a single platform or solution that dealt with all of these difficulties. Would you test it out, would you put music on it, would you use it. Yeah, even if it meant you having to do a bit of studying to learn how it actually works.
Because what we hear a lot of the time is that we tell people, you know, use this use that everyone's got their preference what you use.
But sometimes it's like, hey, this, hey, that, and people are like, yeah, I haven't got time for that this works.
I say it goes back to what you just said a minute ago the PR PR rose are providing these services so that musicians are not running around chasing their own bag, basically.
But you know if you say to a guy, hey, here's a way that you can do it without the PR rose.
Are they prepared to actually say, well, I need to do a little bit of study that may gain me an extra, you know, percentage or extra control. Are they prepared to do that.
So in your mind, if again, I hit you today and I say to you, yo, now I've got this platform, you know, you're gonna have to study a little bit to understand how this shit works.
But, you know, you can use this and become fully independent and also have greater earning potential. What do you think?
I'll be like 1000% yes. And this is why this is one that the different tenants of crypto.
Again, it's so important because it relates like for self sovereignty, you want to have a non custodian wallet.
And if you don't, then you're going to be operating with a bank 3.0.
And so just to break that down there, right. So, so non custodial wallet or bank 3.0.
Let's just quickly maybe for the viewers just explain what is a non custodial wallet and why shouldn't they or for you from your perspective, why wouldn't you prefer bank 2.0 or 3.0.
So basically, and yeah, Bitcoin is created for self autonomy, essentially, ownership and control of your money.
A lot of people don't understand and appreciate that when their money is in the bank, they haven't got control over it.
And it's because for most like 99.9% of times, if you want to draw out your money, you can, if you want to shift your money around, you can.
But people don't know are aware that the interest that is developed on your money, the bank is basically utilizing your money to make money elsewhere.
And giving you a fraction of it as a little reward for them doing whatever they want to do with your money.
But you're basically what people don't realize is that all the pennies in the bank that they're putting in the bank is really just them loan in the bank one.
And even the thing of getting credit and it's all a game.
But anyway, the exchanges represent that to me as well.
And we know this when there's hacks, we know this, we see this when there's the FTX situation.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And by the way, just to make it clear, people who might have seen that FTX situation outside of this space, the FTX situation is not a technology thing.
It is just a scammer that faked that he was using the technology to scam people out of their money.
So it's not it's nothing to do with technology or all the technology didn't scam anybody.
It didn't break it. It was him. It wasn't hacked.
And hacks generally happen again, just to kind of make the distinction between between the non-custodial custodian.
You say exchanges exchanges crypto exchanges are generally using a custodial model.
So they hold on to your funds, whereas a non-custodial model means that you are holding the ownership, the action, the administration rights over your funds,
even though you might be trading them through a platform, which is an exchange.
That's a decentralized exchange.
And then we have a centralized exchange, which is essentially what you were just describing.
The centralized exchange is the bank. And that's the thing. FTX at the time was trusted.
At the time, some SPF was put out as the crypto god.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he was gassed. He was gassed.
He was gassed funny. And the media did that. And, you know, you can go into conspiracy and all that kind of stuff.
But the point is, is that when you have a non-custodial wallet, that is down to you.
So if anything happens to it, you have to only look at yourself.
If you forget your key phrase, if you forget your password and that's it, then that's on you.
You can only look at yourself in the mirror and be like that.
And there's a sense of security when you have a big platform or an exchange that has got that.
But if that's gone, that's gone. And you have no control over it.
And I see it the same as being an artist now.
Like if Spotify tomorrow crashes and it's highly unlikely, but we saw you can see big giants fall all the time.
If Spotify crashes, then what happens to all the everyone's music on there?
Yeah, and any road is that you may not have claimed from there.
Especially if you go to bankruptcy or something like that.
And it's a similar thing we see with deplatforming as well. Do you understand that?
The platforms can stop you from putting out what you want to put out or use the algorithm to downplay what you've put out.
We see that hell of a lot on YouTube, don't we?
So that's what everybody probably understands on YouTube.
So to answer your question, yes, 100 percent.
Because if I have greater independence on what I'm doing, then I feel much more comfortable looking in the mirror and say,
OK, this is what I did wrong, this is what I did right, or whatever.
And there's a full understanding of what's happening with it as well.
And with NFTs now, the good thing about NFTs is that you retain value as an artist as long as it's in there.
So the selling on of the NFT, so your initial community, they buy the NFT, they get a value from it from the secondary sale.
But then you will always get a percentage from it.
And that's such a blessed thing.
In an autonomous way as well.
In an autonomous way. As an artist, that is so blessed.
Can you imagine, that's not been a situation where you sell a vinyl, you sell a CD, where you can retain the value of that in the future.
Especially if somebody goes and sells it at a secondary sale or whatever.
Visual artists as well, this is game changing for them because how many times do visual artists sell their artwork for this amount?
And then it can go on if they become successful.
They don't ever get that value.
They go up to millions and they don't get any cut of that vinyl sale at the end of the sale.
So yeah, that's it, man.
All right, cool. Listen, Nat, it's been fucking great, bro.
It has been great. As always, my brother.
As always. So, two Nats combined.
The two Nats combined, didn't it? Nat and Nat, yeah.
It's dangerous out here.
So before we wrap up, what I want you to do is just let the people know what it is that you're working on now that's coming next.
Or any kind of shows that you've got coming up, events coming up.
Also where they can find and to connect with you directly.
So I was meant to mention, and because I talk in your fashion, so because you did art earlier.
So yeah, from when we connected and such and then I come a member of the Stats London community.
And I have been running a show, the Web Free F.R.E.E. Music and Poetry Show.
We do that every fortnight Monday.
And at the moment it is grassroots and like I said, I'm just getting my ducks in a row and such.
And this one is actually a really special one. My vision for this is going to be massive.
You know, carving at this stage.
But there is going to be a point when it is going to get like risen on a whole other level.
And where we get artists involved. At the moment, it's conversations, a lot of conversations, being reasonings.
You cover a few, dropping a whole lot of jewels.
Like the last one was really good. We had a whole different demographic coming through.
Everyone is in a dropping gems vibe.
But I do want music to be on there. I do want some poetry on there.
I do want some art in general, as we shared on there as well.
And I do want that space where there is that.
So that's every, you can find that on the Stats London Twitter platform STX LDN.
Every other Monday, the X platform.
X, formerly known as.
The platform formerly known as well.
And yeah, like I'm inspired by you.
And I'm grateful for these inspirations because me, I'm inspired by people around me more than I am by icons.
As great as they are and they do inspire me.
But it's more the people around me that I see personally what they're doing.
Basically, like I'm saying, I'm just sorting out certain things, getting them in the row.
And then we're going to start going far.
So fast, hard and like I'm saying, I'm going to be sharing the journey of it.
Sharing the artistic journey.
So the things that is going to be most successful to people is what I have rough and raw.
And then when that's, you get that, when it's polished.
And I've gathered a critical mass.
And you're going to get the polished in the form of NFTs and ordinals and such.
And we're in a compilation.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I shouldn't even say too much, but it's a compilation basically that I'm involved in and I'm looking forward to it.
Stella B, she's got a visual art, so she's going to be coming more into the form.
And the two of us, we've got our own projects.
So I'm going to be pushing more and more as an artist.
So you can follow me on Natnye, N-A-T-N-Y-E, like New Year's Eve.
TLA, The Lyrical Alchemist, Natnye, TLA on all socials.
And soon enough, you're going to see the journey.
And yeah, my whole journey as an artist is, like I said, purpose driven.
And the way the world is right now, I'm not really feeling it.
And a lot of us are not really feeling it.
And what is being proposed is incoming.
We're not really feeling it.
So this is why I'm championing Bitcoin.
This is why I'm in this space as well.
And I find myself distracted a lot putting out little fires because, you know, linked to what I was saying earlier, I'm an activist.
I'm finding myself giving stuff in the community and such and such.
But really, now is the time for building.
This is what we're here for.
We've got to build.
We've got to build the world we want to live in.
All the arts is generated towards that and the action behind it being a part of the Bitcoin movement as well.
And it's all about building.
What world are we building?
And that's where my focus really is on now.
Building.
And in order to build, you need money.
What's good money? Bitcoin.
So it's about getting the value from what I'm doing because I can't do it starving.
I can't do it less than.
You need resources.
Yeah, I need to be sovereign.
That's it.
So this music podcast, I'm grateful for being the premier, the first.
Let's hope.
On here.
Let's hope.
Nat Cole.
So listen, guys, sovereign music podcast, you heard it from the man himself.
Episode one, season one.
We're going to be catching up with Nat now like a hell of a lot, I suppose, over this time.
He's going to be putting stuff out.
But let's hope for coming through and watching the podcast.
And again, you can find us everywhere.
Underscore sovereign music on Twitter, but everywhere else, sovereign music podcast.
And again, the main podcast you can catch up with on coinscrumb.com forward slash sovereign dash music dash podcast.
Big up, people.
We'll see you on the next one.
Thank you.