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Alright guys, we are here today for the first ever episode of

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The Sovereign Music Podcast.

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And we're here with a very special guest today because this guy is

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actually one of my personal friends that I've met within the music and

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also the tech space and you know, he's taken quite a big dive, you

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know, into what he's doing with his musical talent, his tech talent

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and we talk a lot about other things such as spirituality

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and earthy movements and vibrations.

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So it's glad for me first of all to introduce Nat Nye to The Sovereign

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Music Podcast and this is again the first ever episode.

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So here we go.

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Introduce yourself, bro.

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Let the people know who you are, what you're about and what you do.

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Well, first and foremost, I want to say give thanks to my brother.

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It's an honor to be on the first, the premiere episode of The Sovereign

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Podcast and also we're connected because I'm a Scat's London community

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builder and yeah, the coin scum movement as well.

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I'm glad to play my little role and testify on my journey on this Bitcoin

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journey, this Stacks Bitcoin journey.

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So yeah, yeah, I go by Nat Nye, the lyrical alchemist, my artist.

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I'd say my artist first and foremost, my artist before anything

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else because that's my purpose.

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I work through the arts.

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I get to deliver my purpose.

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My purpose is to enlighten and empower for transformative change in the

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world and the arts is my medium to do so.

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But we've got other mediums and I find that artists need to be empowered

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and this is why Bitcoin connects with me because it's the movement

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for empowerment and artists working with Bitcoin can be empowered

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so that we can have self-autonomy.

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Otherwise, we have to play so much chess games and we have to compromise

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a lot in order to navigate our way in the industry.

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I can see how we can build our own with Bitcoin.

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Yeah, yeah, definitely.

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So we'll get into that talk a little bit later again, right?

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Like, because for those of you who are joining us for the first time

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or coming from, let's say, the traditional music world, part of the

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reason for us doing this podcast is to bring technology and musicians

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together and exploring what technology musicians are actually using

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to get their music out, distribute and also to receive return on their

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music and also to build communities for their fans.

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So we've seen a lot happen obviously to the music industry over the

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past five, ten, fifteen years.

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So when did you first actually get into music?

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What was the thing that was it from a young age thing or was it

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something that came to you later on?

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So I've always loved music, always loved it, but the practice of music

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actually really comes through spoken words.

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So my foundation as an artist, as a proper artist, not the little

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plating that you do when you're young, as a proper artist, is through

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spoken word and through like, I love hip hop, I love rap.

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So I'm always, I'm listening to that every single day.

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It's not a day that I don't work by the way, I'm not listening to

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something I have to do, I have to act into something.

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And my style is very much influenced by rap, very much influenced.

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The instrumental can vary, but my style, my spoken word style is very

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much influenced by the rap.

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So I put that into the style and yeah, naturally as a spoken word artist,

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you have waves where people think that it might just break to mainstream

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and it doesn't.

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The tide rises, it gets higher and higher and higher, people get excited,

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the wave gets, and then it comes back down.

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So most spoken word artists either go into theater or they go into music

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or they go into different branches.

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For me, music is just a part of my soul.

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And I just think like you put something over a beat, then it's just going to

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hit, it's just going to connect to people in a deeper way than generally

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speaking, than a cappella.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Generally speaking.

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And I suppose as well as there's two sides to that, isn't it?

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Because when you've got the beat, like a lot of what we see, let's say

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in the past, I'd say 10 years maybe, a lot of people are paying attention

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to lyricism that are, let's say music lovers, but the average person

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is still kind of like the beat.

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You know, but I think it can kind of work both ways because the beat

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kind of gets people sucked in.

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Maybe the beat is the infectious part, right?

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And then the words, it's the way that the words hit when they're a cappella

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and the fact that people listen to what you're actually saying.

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And obviously in the case of spoken word, it's not battle rap.

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Yeah.

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So people can figure it out a lot easier, you know, or resonate with it,

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shall I say, a lot easier.

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But what you said also brings me on to that second question, which was

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like what was for you kind of like, let's say some of, or one of your

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big break moments, like one of the moments that you've had since you've

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been doing spoken word, since you've been doing music that was like,

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hey, this is going to be, lead me on to the next thing.

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It's going to be it, right?

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You know, whether that be like, you know, you went into a record deal,

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whether you took the deal, you did take the deal, doesn't matter.

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Like what was, what was that point where you thought, hey, this could

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kind of be a make or break moment.

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Such a good question.

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That's a real, real good question.

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Because for me, I came into this kind of aware of what I go on.

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I wasn't unaware.

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So my influences, do you know David Jay, the vocal pugilist?

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Sounds familiar.

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Sounds familiar.

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I wear a hat, dress up, real smart.

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It sounds so familiar, you know, but no, not the top of my head anyway.

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Not the top of my head.

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Okay.

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So yeah, Godfather, you used to call him the Godfather.

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And I was influenced a lot by him when I first saw him.

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I was like, wow.

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Basically I went to three different shows in the, stand innovation each

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time and three different demographics as well.

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So you have the Pan-African look, the R&B like sweet way, black crowd,

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like the woman, and then the next one where it's just multi, like

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multicultural, white people, Asian people, black people, everybody there.

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And each of them blown away by him.

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I was influenced by him a lot.

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So I knew what the industry was.

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So at the time I was connected with Ramp House.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I was an associate poet there.

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And I guess because of the opportunities that they provide, like main space

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Ramp House, we performed that, we had our own event there, then festivals.

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So it was going to do the festival circuit with them.

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I guess that was where I fought that.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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This is, but at that time I was like, I don't need no Ramp House.

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I don't need no institution.

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Go solo.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Really quickly there.

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No, you do need your institution.

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So, so, so again, like, sorry, with that as well.

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So you just, you just go right into like the next question again.

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But what was that?

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Like, what was, what was, let's say that ceiling or, or maybe the problem.

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What was, what was, let's say, can you, if you could identify maybe one

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or two key problems that you found with that big break moment where you was like,

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Hey, I'm on the cusp of being able to, to blow this into something new.

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Like, what was the thing?

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Because as you said, at that time, when this happens, generally for musicians,

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producers, whatever you're on top of the world, Hey, you know, I've got this

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record deal or I've got this distribution deal, or I'm going to perform here.

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Or, you know, I'm down with this crew or whatever it is.

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Right.

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So what was that, that, that feeling like when you started and what were

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the things that kind of became these barriers kind of to, to, to you taking

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that next step or maybe that production pushing it further?

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Yeah.

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I think, okay.

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So self-responsibility and accountability mindset.

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And, and, and just not knowing like, this is a business.

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It's we're artists, but it's a business.

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Number one is a business and businesses are dependent on your

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relationships. So to think that you can go and do things by yourself.

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And so you're like, it's kind of like a delusion thing.

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You need to have relationships and you need to have relationships with

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organizations and institutions and yeah, be it that institution might be

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distribution, it might be whatever the institution might be relevant,

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record label, but a record label that can do you, do something for you.

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Something for you.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Or if it's management, they can do something for you.

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It's not like admin basically.

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Yeah.

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They can end up being like, it's like they have to be able to open.

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Okay.

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If you've got connections to this and that market that is relevant to

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you or you know, these type of things.

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So if you're going to go well now I'm like, right.

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I'm there was never really a space open for someone like me.

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Like to be honest, not really a space open.

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Really.

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I've been able to like I said, perform at certain festivals.

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I've been able to be at certain buildings, perform at the V&A and

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you know, Tate and all of that.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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American Embassy have done Princess Anne reception, world reception for

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her and those little things.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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But the industry don't want an artist like myself.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I don't want it.

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Yeah.

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There's like, there's like, and you hear this quite a lot.

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There's like, you know, and even recently in something that I've been

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doing as well, it's the same thing going on with some of the other

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artists I'm working with.

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And it's you're getting the industry have a way of pigeonholing people.

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Yeah.

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Right.

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Like, whereas whatever's popping, you know, we often hear that because

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it's not sound like whoever or whatever's popping that it doesn't have an audience.

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And I think obviously, again, we'll get into this maybe a little bit in

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a little bit, but I think the online thing has obviously brought a lot

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more, not only eyes, but a lot more niche pockets for everybody.

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Because, you know, as we often say, there's something for everyone, isn't there?

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Right.

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You know, there's always, there's always a buyer and there's always a seller.

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So, so in the end of the day, like what you're saying is that that experience,

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one of the biggest challenges of that experience is being able to kind of

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grab hold of, let's say, an audience for your niche and then the traditional

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industry also being able to, let's say, see your vision or get behind your vision.

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Maybe.

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And that seems to be something that's, you know, been forever plague of the

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music industry because in the end of the day, as you said at the beginning,

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music industry and music businesses, they are businesses.

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They want to make money, right?

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So they will go pretty much like with anything that is the latest money

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making vehicle and we see that all the way from, you know, let's say Elvis

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and rock and roll all the way around to where we are now, you know, with

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the current music landscape and it's like, I know a lot of the time we want

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to call it the powers that be, but I don't think it's more the powers that be.

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I think it's just the way that you should expect the business to work.

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And when you understand that it is a business, you understand that there

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may be a label or maybe a distributor or maybe a production house for you,

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but it's just much easier to find them now because we're not coming from,

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let's say this era of where we've had to do everything, you know, yellow pages

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and phone book era, right?

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Yeah.

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Let's say, yeah.

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So, so yeah, it's interesting to hear that, that just the pigeonholing

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thing is even still an issue, you know, in the wider, wider thing, but then

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you've got also more people now, you know, in totalitarianism, you know,

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totalitarian, right?

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Sorry, in total, you know what I mean?

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Right?

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So you've got totally more people across the board in terms of fans and artists.

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So although there's more, let's say niches to be, to be explored, there's

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more people exploring niches and then when something blows up or gets steam,

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it really gains traction.

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And now everybody's just focused on that, like mesmerization, right?

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So everyone's just focused on this particular niche.

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So if you're a guy that's over here doing something, you know, you still

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00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:32,300
got to get your ball rolling up to that point that it even gets recognized,

245
00:14:32,300 --> 00:14:35,900
you know, in that big sea of artists.

246
00:14:36,300 --> 00:14:42,000
So it's very interesting that that's like a train of thought that you're

247
00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:44,700
going down with, you know, the way that you see things.

248
00:14:44,700 --> 00:14:48,300
And then as well, I like the fact that it's like accountability, right?

249
00:14:48,300 --> 00:14:51,500
Because we all got to take accountability for decisions that we

250
00:14:51,500 --> 00:14:55,600
decide to make in the end of the day on where we want to go on our

251
00:14:55,600 --> 00:15:00,100
own individual journeys, you know, facts, see that in music or business

252
00:15:00,100 --> 00:15:01,600
and family and life, whatever it is.

253
00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:01,800
Right?

254
00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:08,400
So, so, so yeah, so, so one of the other things I'll ask, right,

255
00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:14,300
going from there is if, if you're finding it difficult to, let's say,

256
00:15:14,300 --> 00:15:17,800
find a niche, find this place, find people to help you, right?

257
00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:20,600
Because, you know, there's no iron team, as we say, right?

258
00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:29,300
So, so, so obviously these things are things that you're either

259
00:15:29,300 --> 00:15:30,600
spending time or money.

260
00:15:31,100 --> 00:15:37,300
And as a musician, you know, I would say that all of us, we don't,

261
00:15:37,700 --> 00:15:41,600
we don't necessarily want, let's say, the pop star position or the

262
00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:46,500
fame position, but all of us would like to somehow fund or be able

263
00:15:46,500 --> 00:15:50,700
to fund and endeavor to, to, to, to, you know, use these talents and,

264
00:15:50,700 --> 00:15:52,300
and, and get some kind of return.

265
00:15:54,100 --> 00:15:58,000
So what, what challenges did you face, let's say, or have you faced

266
00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:03,300
over time in monetizing your actual efforts, you know, so, so, so

267
00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:07,300
going back to those days when you were, you know, going with Radhouse,

268
00:16:07,300 --> 00:16:11,200
you were doing this, that what was your outlook on how you monetized

269
00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:16,000
then compared to what we've seen with monetization and how you

270
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,500
would then think about monetizing in today's age?

271
00:16:18,700 --> 00:16:19,800
That's an excellent question.

272
00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:23,600
And yeah, so for me in them days there as well, I wasn't busy

273
00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:24,700
mind at all.

274
00:16:25,300 --> 00:16:26,200
I'm an artist.

275
00:16:26,300 --> 00:16:28,400
I was like, that kind of mindset.

276
00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:30,400
Yeah, yeah.

277
00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:31,900
It's like, what about artists?

278
00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:38,100
Anti-capitalism type, like, you know, certain vegans, we, we,

279
00:16:38,100 --> 00:16:41,700
mutual vegans, we got, like, that's still got that kind of mentality.

280
00:16:41,700 --> 00:16:44,800
Like they put our art first and then everything else comes after.

281
00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:49,100
But, you know, when you see like, actually, for me, I look at

282
00:16:49,100 --> 00:16:54,100
results, like, I'm the lyrical alchemist and I go by that in

283
00:16:54,100 --> 00:16:58,800
multifaceted ways and basically it's connected to science and

284
00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:00,600
with science you need to have results.

285
00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:05,500
So when I'm doing my thing or whatnot in any fashion, it's like,

286
00:17:05,500 --> 00:17:06,800
okay, what is the results?

287
00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:11,600
So when I'm holding a craft and developing it and doing certain

288
00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:17,000
shows, performing, et cetera, connecting with people, money is a part of that.

289
00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:18,800
So, yeah, yeah, yeah.

290
00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:19,700
I've seen like...

291
00:17:19,900 --> 00:17:22,200
Man's got to get a boss, man's got to get a trade, get a cab.

292
00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:25,000
Take, gap prices are high.

293
00:17:25,100 --> 00:17:26,200
You understand, right?

294
00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:26,700
So, yeah.

295
00:17:26,700 --> 00:17:27,300
You know what I'm saying?

296
00:17:27,300 --> 00:17:31,200
So like, there's certain shows I'll be doing and it's like, oh my God, you're amazing.

297
00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:31,900
Da da da da da.

298
00:17:32,300 --> 00:17:34,800
And I appreciate it.

299
00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:36,000
I do, I do appreciate it.

300
00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:40,000
But when I'm looking at the coins in my hand afterwards and like, that's

301
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:42,700
not really a match, it's not really matching, they're amazing.

302
00:17:42,700 --> 00:17:46,700
It's like getting the compliments, but the money is not matching that.

303
00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:52,400
So it got to a point where monetization, I've had to shift.

304
00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:54,200
I've had to be more business-minded.

305
00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:57,400
I'm still on that journey, still working on it as well, because for me,

306
00:17:57,400 --> 00:17:59,900
this is a message and that kind of...

307
00:17:59,900 --> 00:18:10,100
But now I'm like, basically, can you be a prophet without money in this capitalist world?

308
00:18:10,100 --> 00:18:12,100
Activism costs no one.

309
00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:14,100
Activism costs no one.

310
00:18:14,100 --> 00:18:15,100
It costs no one.

311
00:18:15,100 --> 00:18:16,100
It costs no one.

312
00:18:16,100 --> 00:18:16,600
So...

313
00:18:16,900 --> 00:18:20,100
Freedom of expression, but it's not free to express, bro.

314
00:18:20,100 --> 00:18:21,300
It's not free to express.

315
00:18:21,300 --> 00:18:24,600
As you said, like, you know, you have to fund everything.

316
00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:29,800
Or you have to find the money all the time and the energy, which is basically what money quantifies.

317
00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:31,400
You have to find it somewhere.

318
00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:32,500
You have to find it to rehearse.

319
00:18:32,500 --> 00:18:33,500
You have to find it to put...

320
00:18:34,300 --> 00:18:37,400
Even to create what you're creating and then to deliver it.

321
00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:41,400
You have to find that to deliver it in the studio or to even deliver it on stage,

322
00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:43,500
wherever it be, you have to find it.

323
00:18:43,900 --> 00:18:48,900
So I'm still on that journey of valuing what I do.

324
00:18:48,900 --> 00:18:56,200
So maybe six, seven years ago or something like that, I started to shift in terms of mindset.

325
00:18:56,200 --> 00:19:00,800
So if someone asks me to perform one or asks me for a commission or whatever,

326
00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:05,700
I'm able to somewhat get a greater value than, yeah, yeah, I'll do it.

327
00:19:05,700 --> 00:19:06,200
And then...

328
00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:07,800
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

329
00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:08,800
No, don't worry, bro.

330
00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:10,000
I love this.

331
00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:10,700
I love this, man.

332
00:19:10,700 --> 00:19:11,300
Don't worry, man.

333
00:19:11,300 --> 00:19:12,500
Just stick me to Cypher, bro.

334
00:19:12,500 --> 00:19:13,200
I'm cool.

335
00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:13,700
Done.

336
00:19:13,700 --> 00:19:17,300
Like, yeah, no, I'm like, yeah, I need to get some form of value for it.

337
00:19:17,300 --> 00:19:22,000
And also knowing if you're dealing with the corporate world, you deal with them differently

338
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:24,700
to how you deal with the community or your bridgeheads.

339
00:19:24,700 --> 00:19:27,300
Of course, like, your bridgeheads are more tempted to do things for free,

340
00:19:27,300 --> 00:19:32,500
but you have to understand that if you, if night come approaching today,

341
00:19:32,500 --> 00:19:34,900
you're not going to charge them the 200.

342
00:19:34,900 --> 00:19:36,700
You're going to charge them a couple of bills even.

343
00:19:36,700 --> 00:19:39,300
You're going to charge them appropriately.

344
00:19:39,300 --> 00:19:40,400
Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.

345
00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:44,900
And a lot of people, I think this is, again, just sorry, just to go back to the points

346
00:19:44,900 --> 00:19:45,800
that you was making before.

347
00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:51,000
Again, in those early days, and again, just to say what the early days are,

348
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,600
because I know there's going to be some young bucks like back in the day,

349
00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:55,200
that's what I'm saying to you.

350
00:19:55,200 --> 00:20:01,400
So early days, we're talking about like pre-streaming, pre-streaming era.

351
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:05,500
So like in the pre-streaming era, if Nike had come to somebody,

352
00:20:05,500 --> 00:20:10,800
it's yo, you know what, dude be like gassed, like, out of this world,

353
00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:15,200
hey, you know, give me a pair of Jordans and I'm signing away my mask.

354
00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:16,800
You know what I'm saying to you, right?

355
00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:21,200
So, so, and it was, I think the culture back then,

356
00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:26,800
it was a lot easier for people to not understand and to jump into those situations

357
00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:35,300
because the stack was always like, the stack to somebody who's brand new

358
00:20:35,300 --> 00:20:41,200
would always be, hey, I kind of find a way to record a demo

359
00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:47,000
and then I take that demo to a label or an A&R and then I get signed,

360
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:50,300
in which point they're kind of, you know, in that trap already.

361
00:20:50,300 --> 00:20:53,400
If they don't know what they're signing, right?

362
00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:56,800
So, so, and when they're signed, it's even worse

363
00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:59,000
because the endorsement deals that come in,

364
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:02,400
like, you know, the big brands like we'll say Nike and everybody else,

365
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:05,000
these are all now coming in through the label, right?

366
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:07,000
So they're not coming to the person directly.

367
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:08,100
They're not even dealing with that.

368
00:21:08,100 --> 00:21:10,800
So, so when they get a pair of Jordans, they have to do it.

369
00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:12,800
It doesn't matter whether they want to do it or not, right?

370
00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:17,300
Because the labels say, well, look, you know, if you want to get paid, bro,

371
00:21:17,300 --> 00:21:19,800
you're going to have to do this Nike advert for the pair of Jordans

372
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:23,500
and hey, you know, we were unable to get you more.

373
00:21:23,500 --> 00:21:27,500
And probably in the background, the labels maybe cut 50k off of that deal,

374
00:21:27,500 --> 00:21:28,700
you know what I'm saying to you, right?

375
00:21:28,700 --> 00:21:31,600
So, so, yeah, so, so, so sorry.

376
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:34,500
So, yeah, so carry on to what you were saying there

377
00:21:34,500 --> 00:21:39,000
because I didn't want to stop your flow, but what you were saying about just,

378
00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:42,700
again, during that time, you were looking at the money

379
00:21:42,700 --> 00:21:46,000
or the return that you were getting and just not adding it up.

380
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:48,400
Yeah, it wasn't adding it up, but, you know, it's all a mindset thing

381
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:53,800
because your journey as well, actually, you've been aware of certain things.

382
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:58,200
So when you're ready to share them nuggets there, what not, what not.

383
00:21:58,200 --> 00:21:59,900
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

384
00:21:59,900 --> 00:22:03,500
There's ones and ones of us who's like aware of certain things

385
00:22:03,500 --> 00:22:07,700
and or just naturally more business minded, savvy than someone like myself.

386
00:22:07,700 --> 00:22:12,800
Like, and we'll be selling the CDs on the roadside.

387
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:16,400
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll be doing that and then earning quite a bit from it as well.

388
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:19,500
Big up to the man, they are still serving the CDs on the roadside.

389
00:22:19,500 --> 00:22:21,700
But we see you still, there's a couple of men doing it.

390
00:22:21,700 --> 00:22:26,300
Like I had to pull up one you at Stratford, you know, he was sending his thing and that.

391
00:22:26,300 --> 00:22:31,300
I support, you know, I really support guys who do that line,

392
00:22:31,300 --> 00:22:34,900
but I can't do that support of I'm going to randomly buy your thing

393
00:22:34,900 --> 00:22:38,900
and I haven't listened to it anymore because there's we had that whole era of that.

394
00:22:38,900 --> 00:22:40,200
Yes, we did.

395
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:42,700
Just anyone doing it, you understand what I'm trying to say to you.

396
00:22:42,700 --> 00:22:46,100
Like, to a man with one leg, one arm trying to sell you a CD,

397
00:22:46,100 --> 00:22:51,600
you know, I just say to you, like, I'll buy it because no man has got one arm or whatever.

398
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,000
You go back and listen, like, this is trash, bro.

399
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,900
Like, I can't believe I just gave this for the 10 pound or whatever for this thing.

400
00:22:56,900 --> 00:23:01,100
Right. So, so, so, yes, I'm sorry.

401
00:23:01,100 --> 00:23:02,600
I get carried on from there.

402
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:09,300
Like, so, so, so from coming from that time of of you seeing this happen,

403
00:23:09,300 --> 00:23:13,000
what was the change or what was the turning point for you where you said,

404
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:18,700
hey, I can still do this in my own way,

405
00:23:18,700 --> 00:23:24,100
but then also be able to let's say monetize, you know, in my own fashion.

406
00:23:24,100 --> 00:23:25,200
Like, what was the point?

407
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:30,900
Was it like when you discovered YouTube or or maybe, you know,

408
00:23:30,900 --> 00:23:33,100
use one of those guys selling the fucking CDs, right?

409
00:23:33,100 --> 00:23:35,200
Yeah, just say to you, what was the point?

410
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:40,100
So, okay, Nipsey Hussle.

411
00:23:40,100 --> 00:23:40,800
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

412
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:43,100
Nipsey Hussle, I got into Nipsey Hussle.

413
00:23:43,100 --> 00:23:44,900
My regent didn't tell me about Nipsey Hussle.

414
00:23:44,900 --> 00:23:48,000
A long, long, long time before Nipsey's name blew up.

415
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:53,500
And I was looking into it, like, I was looking into him and he's very, very business minded.

416
00:23:53,500 --> 00:23:54,700
He was very, very entrepreneurial.

417
00:23:54,700 --> 00:23:55,400
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

418
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:56,300
And I saw what he did.

419
00:23:56,300 --> 00:23:57,800
You see what he did with the mixtapes, too.

420
00:23:57,800 --> 00:23:58,900
Yeah, with the mixtapes, yeah.

421
00:23:58,900 --> 00:24:00,200
That blew my mind.

422
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:01,400
I was like, my days.

423
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:06,200
I tried to do, I didn't do it anywhere close to successful or anything.

424
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:14,100
But I thought, let me just, I've got this EP, this sort of ethereal sound, spoken word type joint.

425
00:24:14,100 --> 00:24:14,500
Yeah.

426
00:24:14,500 --> 00:24:17,200
And then I thought, four tracks.

427
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:19,900
And I was like, let me put £10 on that, on Bandcamp.

428
00:24:19,900 --> 00:24:20,500
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

429
00:24:20,500 --> 00:24:22,800
I'll have the CD, I'll send him the CD for £10.

430
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:28,900
And so people at the time were like, raw, how can you sell only four tracks for £10?

431
00:24:28,900 --> 00:24:31,800
And it was just literally inspired by Nipsey Hussle.

432
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:32,700
Yeah, yeah.

433
00:24:32,700 --> 00:24:36,900
It got me a little, a little sudden, sudden little change.

434
00:24:36,900 --> 00:24:37,700
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

435
00:24:37,700 --> 00:24:38,400
It was okay.

436
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:38,800
Yeah.

437
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:46,000
But from that point on, I started to, and really and truly, the realisation of all of my knowledge

438
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:50,200
is going to be happening now, to be honest, because it's been a journey.

439
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:56,400
I tried that and it got me a little sudden, it got me by, but I haven't executed.

440
00:24:56,400 --> 00:25:01,000
And the reason why I haven't executed properly, because the streaming didn't appeal to me,

441
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:02,800
because it's fractions of a penny.

442
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:05,100
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

443
00:25:05,100 --> 00:25:08,900
And social media, I've always had a struggle with social media.

444
00:25:08,900 --> 00:25:10,300
I'm a person-to-person type person.

445
00:25:10,300 --> 00:25:10,900
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

446
00:25:10,900 --> 00:25:13,800
So online, I've always had a struggle with navigating online,

447
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:18,100
like being consistent and consistently posting every day,

448
00:25:18,100 --> 00:25:22,300
or even disconnecting online, like on a consistent basis.

449
00:25:22,300 --> 00:25:22,700
Yeah.

450
00:25:22,700 --> 00:25:24,000
Always had an issue with that.

451
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:25,300
I more prefer this, that.

452
00:25:25,300 --> 00:25:26,200
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

453
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:27,700
Talking to the man there, that, actually.

454
00:25:27,700 --> 00:25:29,000
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

455
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:29,900
Always preferred that.

456
00:25:29,900 --> 00:25:36,400
So the realization of my knowledge and applying it into my art is really happening,

457
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,200
or it's about to happen.

458
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:38,900
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

459
00:25:38,900 --> 00:25:39,900
It's putting everything together.

460
00:25:39,900 --> 00:25:48,500
And to be honest, it's crypto, where I've felt, right, this is where things can really,

461
00:25:48,500 --> 00:25:51,900
I can gain equity for my artistic output.

462
00:25:51,900 --> 00:25:52,600
For yourself, yeah.

463
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:53,600
Yeah, for myself.

464
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:54,300
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

465
00:25:54,300 --> 00:25:59,700
To get value from what I'm doing, because I'm a perfectionist, which is a problem.

466
00:25:59,700 --> 00:26:06,900
I mean, I thought about it earlier today, like perfectionism is a hindrance to progress.

467
00:26:06,900 --> 00:26:14,700
If you want to get to here, you can't be thinking about shining or wiping the last bit.

468
00:26:14,700 --> 00:26:16,000
Yeah, last bit.

469
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:17,500
Yeah, you've got to get to there.

470
00:26:17,500 --> 00:26:20,300
There's one little mark on the floor, so we're not going to open today, you know,

471
00:26:20,300 --> 00:26:22,700
actually, to say to you, like, so yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

472
00:26:22,700 --> 00:26:33,000
So for me, I'm like, right, now with the streaming and such, even that needs relationships.

473
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:38,300
You need to have certain relationships with big art, as artists,

474
00:26:38,300 --> 00:26:41,500
you need ones with big platforms to be able to get in there.

475
00:26:41,500 --> 00:26:45,800
To build up from grassroots now, it can still be done,

476
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:55,200
but that time reading truly was 2008 to 2013, 2014, I feel like, where you could have had organic growth.

477
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:56,600
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

478
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,800
Now you have to play the algorithm game and you have to build relationships.

479
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:03,800
If you want to get on Spotify, you need to have relationships with playlists.

480
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:05,900
You can put them on a top playlist and such.

481
00:27:05,900 --> 00:27:11,700
Otherwise, you become the 90% of people that, you know, I can't remember the stat,

482
00:27:11,700 --> 00:27:15,000
but every single day, there's an insane amount of content uploaded.

483
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,800
Yeah, that amount, that amount, like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

484
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:20,000
90% of it doesn't get heard.

485
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:23,300
It's like zero views or zero streams.

486
00:27:23,300 --> 00:27:28,600
So, or I think it's up from zero to 10, and that's it.

487
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:32,700
So the mainstream artists basically eat up everything else.

488
00:27:32,700 --> 00:27:37,700
And then you have the rest, like the independent artists who are business savvy,

489
00:27:37,700 --> 00:27:40,500
and you said earlier about building communities and stuff.

490
00:27:40,500 --> 00:27:44,000
They are the ones who get their little section of it.

491
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,200
So the mainstream artists dominate, and then you have the independent artists

492
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,000
that are business savvy that get their section of it.

493
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:54,500
And then they're able to, then once you're able to really master the team,

494
00:27:54,500 --> 00:27:58,000
they're able to, off their community, they're able to gain even more

495
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:02,500
on a personal level in terms of real money than the even the mainstream artists.

496
00:28:02,500 --> 00:28:04,000
That's what I need to do now.

497
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:09,100
I need to get my ducks in a row and then execute upon the knowledge.

498
00:28:09,100 --> 00:28:11,000
Yeah, yeah.

499
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:17,000
I know we're going to get into it, but with things I love about crypto and Bitcoin,

500
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:25,000
it applies to, and to be successful in that world, it applies to being successful as an artist.

501
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,000
The same rules apply. You have to have a community.

502
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:29,000
Yeah, yeah.

503
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:33,000
You have to. You have to deliver for that community.

504
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,000
You have to. You have to communicate with that community.

505
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:37,000
You have to.

506
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:42,000
If you want a successful project in crypto, if you've got your own, you have to communicate.

507
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:45,000
You have to have a community. You have to constantly communicate.

508
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:49,000
You have to have good energy. Wag me. You have to have the wag me.

509
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,000
Artists, you have to have the wag me.

510
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,000
You're saying to the community, we're all going to make it because

511
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:58,000
I'm delivering something that you're not saying you need, right?

512
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:01,000
You're supplying me with the funds we're able to get. Wag me.

513
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:04,000
Yeah, we're all going to make it.

514
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:10,000
I think it's a sharing thing, right? And there's a sharing of value in it, right?

515
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:18,000
And then again, we'll get into this a little bit later and then we'll get up to some of the podcast apps

516
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:22,000
where you'll be able to find the podcast later, like Founding,

517
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:27,000
and the Lightning Network podcast 2.0 algorithms,

518
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:32,000
where some of you maybe are listening to this on those at the time.

519
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:40,000
But yeah, it is literally a value creation, value share.

520
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:45,000
Some people, the people I'd say that are the consumers of your music

521
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:52,000
that are paying or paying to stream it, those people are sharing the value that they've created,

522
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:58,000
which is the demon monetary value, and you are sharing your artistic value

523
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:04,000
or your value or opinion or your creative value in what you have created.

524
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:09,000
So it's an exchange of value, essentially.

525
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,000
And it's an equitable one at that.

526
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:13,000
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're not going to say to you.

527
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:19,000
For both parties, it works, especially when the artist, as you said,

528
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:26,000
has got this community that they monetized with, that they're either giving rewards or something back to,

529
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:35,000
or maybe lessening the load on their monetary contributions.

530
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:39,000
So at times, I think, you know, V for V for me,

531
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:45,000
at times when the artist is unable to give back to the community,

532
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,000
the community is supporting the artist.

533
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:51,000
And at times when the artist is able to now give back to the community,

534
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:54,000
the artist is supporting the community.

535
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:58,000
And a lot of that community are going to be other people that are artists,

536
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:05,000
that are creators, that are not just fans, that maybe want to create something, to do something new.

537
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:11,000
So, you know, artists meeting the artist even is a very cool thing, you know,

538
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:18,000
that a lot of, let's say, more reputable or more known artists tend to do like it means, right?

539
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:24,000
Saying, you know, hey, and that provides value to the listener,

540
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:30,000
because the listener has this kind of almost like morale boost or moment of happiness

541
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:34,000
where they're able to meet their favorite artist and talk to them and share ideas

542
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:39,000
and maybe connect on a more personal level.

543
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:42,000
And you've already connected on, let's say, a vibrational level,

544
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:46,000
because you are putting out music that this person is listening to.

545
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:53,000
And this person is listening to you because they are thinking what you're saying or what you're making, right?

546
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:57,000
And you vibrate on it, so you're frequency.

547
00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,000
So, yeah, man, it's a key thing.

548
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:04,000
And with kind of like what you've got coming or what you've got doing,

549
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:09,000
are you pulling away from, let's say, the old hard copies model,

550
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:15,000
or do you see that hard copy physical stuff can still blend with the digital realm?

551
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:18,000
100%.

552
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:26,000
I was at this venue the other day and they had a vinyl player and I put on the headphones

553
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:29,000
and I was like, wow, no, I need a vinyl.

554
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,000
Yeah, we love a bit of vinyl.

555
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:37,000
Yeah, I think Kane Mayfield, he's got a vinyl, right?

556
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:41,000
Yeah, Kane's got a vinyl for the Dust record.

557
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:49,000
For those of you who don't know, there's a fantastic artist and hopefully we'll be able to get him on a further season.

558
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:58,000
But Kane Mayfield, man, fucking this Dust project that he's put out, like hard money, hard copies, you know,

559
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:01,000
definitely, definitely, definitely got a plan.

560
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:13,000
And that being said, I think there's a lot of us in that space that, you know, we kind of understand where the chips fall

561
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:16,000
and that we can do multiple of these things.

562
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:24,000
We can have the hard copy stuff in with the digital stuff and then also the ownership and the distribution.

563
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:30,000
So, yeah, sorry, go on, you were saying, yeah, so with yourself and the hard copy stuff.

564
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,000
For me, it's just all about value.

565
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:40,000
Like, I see what a lot of us in our space and the ones that we know in there, what we do is of a certain quality.

566
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:48,000
And I feel this is what I'm saying in terms of value, that what I produce, I don't want it to be like a McDonald's

567
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,000
or even less than that, like a Penny Sweet.

568
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,000
You know that Penny Sweet?

569
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:53,000
Put it in the Penny Sweet.

570
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:57,000
This is, do you remember that after eight?

571
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:58,000
Yeah, after eight.

572
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,000
I used to save those chocolates.

573
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:01,000
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

574
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:06,000
After eight was like the thing where you see when your mum or your nan breaks out the after eights, bro,

575
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,000
you're like, you're just plotting, you understand, right?

576
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:15,000
Because that's the thing, that's the chocolate that don't, the chocolate that don't come out of the cupboard.

577
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:16,000
It doesn't come out.

578
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:19,000
It don't come out of the cupboard, bro, until it's like Christmas or whatever.

579
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:26,000
And then you go for the special, the special thing that you get, the box of quality or the roses or something.

580
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:30,000
Exactly. So that's what I'm producing.

581
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,000
So it needs to be valued like that.

582
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:39,000
So vinyl gives me that feel, like Bitcoin gives me that feel, Stacks gives me that feel, gives me that feel.

583
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:46,000
Like what I'm putting here is I've put so much energy, love and respect into this thing here.

584
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:50,000
And so it needs to be distributed in that fashion.

585
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:58,000
So for me, yeah, as soon as I can, I want to have the vinyl, I want to have the ordinals, I want to have the Stacks NFTs,

586
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:02,000
I want to have it in those different fashions.

587
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:08,000
And yeah, I'll use the streaming platforms as a means for like window shopping.

588
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:09,000
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

589
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:11,000
Like get the...

590
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:16,000
But where I'm going to get the value for what I do is in those means.

591
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:24,000
And also, I think it's just important for artists to understand value of themselves and what they're producing and how that should be represented.

592
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:35,000
Because when you are following the mainstream fashion, like for a start, like you're relying on the middlemen who are giants.

593
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:36,000
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

594
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:37,000
And they basically select.

595
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:41,000
And what a lot of people don't think about is the difference in budget.

596
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:50,000
If they can afford to, if they're really behind you and they give you 500k plus a milli, they give you that level of budget,

597
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:55,000
then and they're pushing you, they're making sure they link you up to this one, that one, that one, that one, that one,

598
00:35:55,000 --> 00:36:04,000
getting you what would be the type of deals, getting you set up for award shows, getting you hooked up with the right type of artists that can take you up, level up collaborations, all that kind of stuff.

599
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:09,000
You've got that boost, then it increases your chances of being successful.

600
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:13,000
Whereas if you haven't got that, even if you're signed, you're not guaranteed to get that.

601
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:17,000
They can shelf you, which they do to most artists, to be honest.

602
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:22,000
It's better for you to, or for me, I want to go down that journey.

603
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:25,000
I never did want to have no interest in going down that journey.

604
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:35,000
For me, it's more about cultivating that community and giving them the value and that they are the biggest advocates for what I do.

605
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:41,000
Then they can share the news so that we can grow this together.

606
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:42,000
Together, yeah.

607
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:46,000
Ultimately, where I see it is I'm a vessel for the message anyway.

608
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:48,000
Yeah.

609
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:59,000
That being said, what do you see, because I feel a bit over there, we'll come to that back in a second,

610
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:11,000
but what do you see as the major change in monetization models that we see currently?

611
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:19,000
Because you touched on it there with saying, hey, these are Spotify's, the Apple Music is more like, really for you,

612
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:29,000
these are more like the marketing platforms and maybe distributing the dairy milk.

613
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:35,000
Because even the Cadbury's and the chocolates and the Sweeties example, you know what I'm trying to say to you.

614
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:42,000
You've got, as I said, the quality shoot or the after rates and the roses, and that was the special stuff.

615
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:44,000
The scarce stuff, limited.

616
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:48,000
You can only get that in the Easter, the Christmas, whatever.

617
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:53,000
You've got the everyday stuff like, and then no diss to Mars or anything like that.

618
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,000
But you've just got a bog stand in Mars, bro.

619
00:37:55,000 --> 00:38:01,000
I'm trying to say to you, the dairy milk on an everyday basis.

620
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:11,000
So with that in the music, in essence, what you're saying then is the quality stays the same throughout,

621
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:23,000
but there is a certain music or certain amount of your music or your art that you're working on that is meant for marketing,

622
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:26,000
let's say, or for the wider crowd.

623
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:31,000
And then there is that niche that the people who want what you're providing,

624
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:36,000
the people who want that value, who are exchanging the value with you, that they're looking for.

625
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:42,000
And that's what you're saying then basically is that, hey, you're trying to hit a two prong approach.

626
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:46,000
Hey, out here, some stuff is going on over here.

627
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:54,000
This is some Cadbury's, some dairy milk, and come to the tuck shop.

628
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:56,000
I was trying to say to you.

629
00:38:56,000 --> 00:39:00,000
And when they come to the tuck shop, it's a bit more like Willy Wonka's factory when they set up.

630
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:03,000
So they're like, hey, I need a fucking gone ticket.

631
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:14,000
So yeah, so just like, sorry, again, the question is just where do you see or how do you see

632
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:19,000
what you're doing now different from current monetization?

633
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:24,000
So, yeah, I like this analogy still.

634
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:30,000
So what I'm going to do, my uncle, yeah, he said to me, basically,

635
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:35,000
and profound thing a couple of weeks ago, you're saying to me, whatever trade or industry you're in,

636
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:37,000
it's to be successful.

637
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:40,000
It's about your willingness to be uncomfortable.

638
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:45,000
Not necessarily your ability to work hard or your actual talent.

639
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,000
It's your willingness to be uncomfortable.

640
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:49,000
Work well under pressure.

641
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:50,000
Work well under pressure.

642
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:54,000
And it's to put yourself in situations where, you know, like so for me, like I said earlier,

643
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:56,000
social media has been an issue.

644
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:57,000
So that's where I'm uncomfortable.

645
00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:00,000
So for me, I know they're in that world.

646
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:04,000
I need to push myself in that way to be successful.

647
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:09,000
I've only got what, 2,000 followers on IG.

648
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:15,000
And the vast majority of the people in there, I've actually met or they've seen me perform live.

649
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:21,000
So you have a more of a direct connection with the people that are following.

650
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:23,000
I have a more direct connection with the people I'm following.

651
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:30,000
However, because I've not been so prolific over the years and the algorithm means that 2% of them see me anyway,

652
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:33,000
it means I need to rebuild that back up.

653
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:37,000
So because of that, my talk shop is now open.

654
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:38,000
And this is my plan.

655
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:39,000
I don't mind saying it.

656
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:43,000
I want everyone to get something they get.

657
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:46,000
And, you know, this is sovereign music.

658
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:48,000
So we want everyone to be sovereign.

659
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:57,000
So for me, the ideal scenario is that my lab is open.

660
00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:04,000
And so what I'm putting out on social media, what I'm putting out on streaming platforms will be my open lab.

661
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:09,000
So you will get to see what I do in draft form, essentially.

662
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:11,000
OK, OK, OK.

663
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:13,000
You get the journey of it.

664
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:17,000
So you might even, I might even just do something that I just read or whatnot.

665
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:19,000
I don't like that look.

666
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:23,000
But it might be off paper, but you won't see it type thing.

667
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:28,000
And then people get to informed on the journey of it.

668
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:30,000
You tell me what they like or whatnot.

669
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:34,000
And then I add to it if it connects with me and such and such.

670
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:43,000
And so that was the output that up on the plan is to basically flood that, flood that on social media, flood that on streaming platforms.

671
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:46,000
Kind of like who's done this?

672
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:55,000
People are so I was going to say it's that following the story of how you're building, you know, into what you're building.

673
00:41:55,000 --> 00:42:01,000
Yes. And funnily enough, another good artist that we can mention here is Kehlani, right?

674
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:03,000
She's done the same thing.

675
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:06,000
She's her thing is is.

676
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:12,000
And this is, by the way, this is not the bashful Kehlani that you guys know about, you know, the bashful Kehlani.

677
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:23,000
This is this is an artist. She's a musician that is in Bitcoin space in the Stacks cryptocurrency blockchain ecosystem.

678
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:29,000
And she literally I think her thing was called My Story or something, her first thing that she started doing.

679
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:35,000
And she's built up this discord and she's built all of her thing around her creating.

680
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:41,000
So her writing, her writing schedule, her studio schedule, what she's maybe writing.

681
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:44,000
And about the difficulty in writing about certain things.

682
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:52,000
And, you know, she she she she she again, I don't want to give away too much, but you go check out Kehlani.

683
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:54,000
Again, this is your thing.

684
00:42:54,000 --> 00:43:01,000
So I'm not going to do any super shout outs for people who search for Kehlani Bitcoin Kehlani, you know, Stacks ecosystem.

685
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:13,000
And she she basically kind of took this stance where it was something terrible had happened in her life, in her family.

686
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:27,000
And she basically told the story of that through music, but then also broke down how difficult it was for her to be able to put that story into her music and why she did it.

687
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:32,000
And she made that into kind of almost what her content is.

688
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:41,000
So when you when you go and watch her channel or you jump to Instagram or whatever, her content is constantly about what she is doing to create.

689
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:48,000
And then she will maybe release that as an artwork or a single or a video or something at some point.

690
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:57,000
But literally, she is taking every single person that's watching through this journey or today I came up with a song title.

691
00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:04,000
And by the time it's finished, hey, this is the release of that song title that three months ago, you know, I was talking about.

692
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:12,000
Right. Yeah. So so, yeah, so I can definitely resonate that and that definitely gets a lot of people again, because it's a value exchange.

693
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:20,000
So it makes people resonate with, hey, maybe I'm in my bedroom trying to create music as well.

694
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:25,000
And there's something that I wanted to talk about that I thought was difficult to talk about.

695
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:33,000
And now I've seen her experience, then it makes it much easier for me to come to terms with what I'm trying to do.

696
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:37,000
The key thing out of that is authenticity. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cool.

697
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:42,000
That is it. Yeah, 100 percent. And I've been just being real like like.

698
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:46,000
And that's the thing being a perfectionist now. And you want everything to be shined and clean.

699
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:49,000
And we want everyone to see the perfect. They come see you now.

700
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:53,000
They're oh, my God, how did you even do that? But authenticity makes mistakes, bro.

701
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:56,000
Authenticity makes mistakes. That's it.

702
00:44:56,000 --> 00:45:01,000
And people want to connect with something that's authentic, especially nowadays, actually, because we've moved from the era

703
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:09,000
that no one is saying that the era of like it was kind of like any kind of celebrity you see of that time, anyone who's made it into mainstream,

704
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:15,000
you kind of get a package that is perfect. Even if it's gangster rap, it's still a perfect package.

705
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:20,000
You don't get to see actually that downside is you get these superhero type characters.

706
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:25,000
But that we shifted from that social media area now is where like you have to show yourself.

707
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:27,000
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. All sides of yourself.

708
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:34,000
And I think I think that kind of came through with the DVD era as well, because the DVD era was like, you know, you know,

709
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:42,000
whether you want to say it's the American ones or the UK ones or whatever, the DVD era was not just man them freestyle in front of the camera.

710
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:50,000
It was like people go into where these guys live, you know, going almost like MTV Cribs and some of the DVDs,

711
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:58,000
because it's got going to where these guys live, taking the camera to them. Right. You know, like, you know, me and then, as I said to you before, you know,

712
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:03,000
we used to do this big street verbals, right. You know, and that was before S.D.

713
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:10,000
That was like before there was YouTube existed. You understand. And I think at the time there was maybe one or two.

714
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:13,000
There was no load of the mics. There was no load of the decks yet.

715
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:19,000
Like there was maybe one or two. I think I think that there was I mean, Risky Rhodes, I think that came later, didn't it?

716
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:22,000
But there was a few other guys that were doing similar things, right.

717
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:28,000
And it was all kind of taken from the Americans of the smash, Maggie and the cocaine city and whatever, you know.

718
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:35,000
But but but one of the things that I think we found unique about what we were doing at that time is we were just going everywhere.

719
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:38,000
You understand. So we just pull up on the ends.

720
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:41,000
Yo, brother, you call you man. Good. Boom, boom, boom.

721
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:48,000
And a lot of the times, we were pulling up to ends. It was a madness because we were pulling up and we were rolling.

722
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:54,000
And we got the whip, the whips tinted and, you know, man skidded up on man.

723
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:59,000
There's loads of occasions where we skid up in a man's estate or whatever.

724
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:04,000
And they're like, you know, who's that kind of thing?

725
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:07,000
Yeah. Man are all getting ready. You understand that.

726
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:11,000
Man are all getting ready to draw for certain things or whatever. We have found that.

727
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:15,000
You know, but it's all love. Yeah. We come to see what's going on in your ends.

728
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:18,000
You understand what I'm trying to say. Who's the guys that are doing this thing?

729
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:21,000
Who's the guy that are rapping, producing, whatever?

730
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:29,000
And just and just showing that side. So, again, like you said, like showing that that authenticity, we never when we were doing street rap,

731
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:34,000
we never wanted to ever have it that we were like to structure.

732
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:38,000
Don't get me wrong. We were organizing with people say, yeah, we're going to come on this day or whatever.

733
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:47,000
After listening to the second episode, but it was never we didn't want it to be so stiff that if we was in our ends

734
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:52,000
and some of you rolled up on the street and said, yo, brother, record me that we wouldn't do it.

735
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:55,000
Yeah. Yeah. But then there's also quality control.

736
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:59,000
There's also quality control. There's also quality control.

737
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:03,000
So, so again, so going on from that, right.

738
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:09,000
So, so how did you when did you start to connect, let's say, the technology side of things?

739
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:16,000
Because again, although like, you know, this is for yourself, obviously, we know about the crypto, the Bitcoin.

740
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:27,000
When did you start to connect that I can now use this technology, not just the YouTube, not just for fun, but I can use computing.

741
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:35,000
Because it's the Internet. So I can use computing to to now take my feet to the next level and use this independently.

742
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:41,000
What was the kind of the moment for you? Was it the Lily Allen MySpace moment?

743
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:47,000
Was it the you know, again, was it YouTube? Was it was it?

744
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:53,000
I think MySpace is the I got you got shout out. Yeah, yeah. MySpace is the OG daddy, right?

745
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:58,000
It's the daddy. But yeah, for me, that's never been my strength. So I didn't even.

746
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:04,000
Yeah, I did. I didn't make the most of it. Like, if I could go back to my younger self now, I was more interested in performing.

747
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:08,000
That's what I was interested in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Real life performances. Yeah.

748
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:12,000
But if I could go back to my younger self, I would be like, no, like balance.

749
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:18,000
Like you need to focus on on using MySpace. Definitely. Because MySpace was hot.

750
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:23,000
Yeah, yeah. And then yeah, YouTube as well back then.

751
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:28,000
So the realization for me has come very, very late, to be honest.

752
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:34,000
It's come and it's because I'm purpose driven and I'm like things have to connect with me.

753
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:42,000
So if I if I was utilizing these these technology forms back then, I'd be in a much stronger position than I am now.

754
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:51,000
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a fact. But yeah, it is it is web free. It is web free.

755
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:58,000
Yeah, yeah. It's really connected. Because I know when we first met, you were like, because you also and definitely shout that out as well.

756
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:02,000
Shout out Stella as well. Yes. Yes, my other hook.

757
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:14,000
So maybe we could explore that a little bit like when you discovered like web free and then you started to put on events, didn't you, for artists and creators to teach them about web free, you know.

758
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:25,000
So let us know a little bit more about that. Yeah. So OK. So yeah. OK. So basically, before that point, I'm still on a journey of learning.

759
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:32,000
And yes, streaming didn't really connect with me because the fractures of the penny. I go deep into everything I go into. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

760
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:38,000
I did it really connect. Oh, if I'm putting a million, three thousand out of a million, that's a lot of work for that.

761
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:47,000
But basically, it got to Patreon came out and Patreon was interesting.

762
00:50:47,000 --> 00:51:02,000
Bangcamp. That's where I went to actually. Bangcamp. Yeah. And you know, I was talking to this clip by the same day, Bangcamp is like, you know, really kind of the spot, which it was like it's like it's like the best monetization for musicians in the web too world, isn't it?

763
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:17,000
Yes. So yeah, yeah. Bangcamp is where I went to, but I didn't. I put my first EP on there. That's where I put my EP. But I didn't again, I didn't utilize it as much as I should have, like anywhere close to it.

764
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:29,000
It's kind of dormant, but I did use it and Bangcamp was, Bangcamp is good. I rate Bangcamp. But Patreon came out. That was interesting. I didn't use that either.

765
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:35,000
There was a UK version of that startup that Stella and I were both involved in.

766
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:44,000
And it didn't work out because, you know, the mentality is different. And for me, I've got this huge vision, this massive vision.

767
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:53,000
And I just see things way beyond the industry. Like we've been doing music for thousands of years before the music industry even existed.

768
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:59,000
So I'm like, they are not the standard bearers for me. They're the standard bearers.

769
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:03,000
They're not the arbiters of what you want to do.

770
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:09,000
They're not the arbiters of what I want to do. I see that. I'm like, yo, I'm the lyrical alchemist.

771
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:20,000
I'm around at a time when we build pyramids with poetry, with lyrics, like the power of music. Music is like, it's so downplayed the level of power it has.

772
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:25,000
But we know it when it comes on, when a certain beat comes on, depending on where you're at.

773
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:33,000
You can't listen to, well, I say you can't, but classical music is not going to make you feel the same way in the gym.

774
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:39,000
Yeah, of course, of course, because all the vibrations have different, I guess, different vibrations, different resonance.

775
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:44,000
And it connects with you. You're going to access to what you're going to do with the music.

776
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:51,000
So the way I'm like, I just see that we can build our own industry.

777
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:59,000
So this startup kind of offered that, but they're like the people, the money people behind it, they don't have that mindset.

778
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:06,000
They're more seeing how they can do what a patron's going to expect from streaming and earn money from it.

779
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:10,000
And that's it. I'm like, we can build a whole ecosystem. It didn't work out.

780
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:19,000
But when the NFT team blew up, when that got crazy, and I dig deeper into it and be like, this is not what NFTs is.

781
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:24,000
Everyone's thinking that NFTs is the profile picture. But that's not what NFTs is.

782
00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:37,000
It's the contract that says ownership. So I'm like, in my head, like, wow, this is, so the word I was looking for,

783
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:44,000
the phrase I was looking for earlier is that. And in terms of the Ferrero Rocher and the...

784
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:52,000
The Ferrero Rocher, Manu Truer, the Ruffalo and that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

785
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:57,000
Is that basically it's fine art. There's a difference between fine art and the rep.

786
00:53:57,000 --> 00:53:59,000
It's the Fortons.

787
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:11,000
It's that. So I can see how NFTs can... and now Audionauts has come out. I can see how that can really give you all Audionauts as well.

788
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:18,000
I can see how that can place value on what you do. So now, I think it's like two years ago, we reconnected.

789
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:24,000
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you're Bitcoin Wiz.

790
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:37,000
I was flirting with the other blockchains. I was flirting with them. I was thinking Ethereum.

791
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:45,000
I don't really like the idea of the transaction speed and the transaction cost as well.

792
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:54,000
I was thinking I want to make this accessible to as many people as possible. And certain people, if they pay a certain amount,

793
00:54:54,000 --> 00:55:01,000
and then they have to pay on top of that just for... Just to access it or... Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course.

794
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:06,000
Then I didn't want to do that. So then other ones were paying to me like Tezos or Nier.

795
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:11,000
So I was flirting with Tezos and I was flirting with Nier and Algorand. I was flirting with them both.

796
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:21,000
Because fast transaction speeds and it's like pennies for... What does this say? Transaction fees.

797
00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:26,000
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. TX fees, yeah. Yeah, like pennies. So it's not really...

798
00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:32,000
It's not impacting the cost consumer to pay. It's like a delivery fee.

799
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:40,000
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's nothing. So I was flirting with them. But again, everything is purpose driven for me.

800
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:47,000
So when I went to a Nier conference and the founder of Nier was there and everyone was asking questions.

801
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:52,000
I asked my question, I was like, yo, what is your dream? What is the view this is in 30 years?

802
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:58,000
And he gave me this kind of neutral response. I didn't think worse of him. I didn't think better of him.

803
00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:07,000
It was just like, okay, that's not... But every time I hear Bitcoin is now, it's like we are here to change money.

804
00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:18,000
And that passion behind that really just connects with me. So linking with you now and you breaking down like, yo, we've got an L2 here that could basically work.

805
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:27,000
Like put you in a Bitcoin ecosystem and the emphasis and the priority of Bitcoin.

806
00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:34,000
So anyone that links to you is going to know about Bitcoin. But know about the importance of Bitcoin.

807
00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:41,000
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not just a way that you can generate more fear. That's not your message at all.

808
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:53,000
You're just basically saying if you want to have autonomy, if you want to have sovereignty, if you want to be free, then where else are you going to get that from?

809
00:56:53,000 --> 00:57:03,000
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's literally what it is. And funnily enough, I'm glad that you mentioned that L2 stacks and then Bitcoin and then what you can do L2.

810
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:10,000
So again, especially for the maxis watching, I would do some differentiation.

811
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:25,000
So and then I'll ask you the question I'm going to ask. But for me, layer 2s like stacks, rootstock, the layer 2s help with the rights side of things.

812
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:35,000
Yeah. Right. And the contractual side of things. Yeah. Layer 1 or layer 2s or lightning specifically as a layer 2.

813
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:44,000
Yeah. Right. Helps with the streaming, the direct payments, you know, side of things.

814
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:53,000
And that being said even further, right, for those of you who are not, let's say, web free native, crypto native, you don't understand Bitcoin.

815
00:57:53,000 --> 00:58:03,000
As you know, the sovereign music podcast is presented with coins from coins from and also supported by 2140.com.

816
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:12,000
So if you go to coins from.com, there is a whole glossary that teaches you all of these terms that we've been using, web free Bitcoin, cryptocurrency, blockchain, so on and so forth.

817
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:15,000
And you can find a whole bunch of learning right there.

818
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:26,000
And there's also 2140.com, which is a supporter of the podcast and an online magazine that brings culture, money, music all together in one place.

819
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:34,000
So so with that being said, what I want to ask you, the next question is, is how do you feel about music rights?

820
00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:48,000
Like, have you ever had any problems or come up against any friction dealing with rights like your royalties payments or, you know, just understanding how to to gain your rights for your music?

821
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:56,000
Well, yes, like the number one thing, not number one thing, but one of the important things that any artist do in the UK is sign up to PRS.

822
00:58:56,000 --> 00:59:01,000
I'm signing up to PRS. I made use of it properly yet.

823
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:05,000
But you have to sign up to PRS. That's essential.

824
00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:18,000
And the time you perform, you're missing out on whatever because if you're not on PRS, and that's about getting your rights and then you've got your mechanical rights as well that you need to that is attached to the PRS.

825
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:27,000
But yeah, the NFTs essentially that gives us that, your automated fashion.

826
00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:46,000
Yeah. So so so in other words, with the with the PROS like PRS for the Americans, ASCAP, you know, PPL, you know, these these organizations, do you think that is your view that that that that the future will be that the PROS work with the technology?

827
00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:52,000
Or is it that PROS die, and we only have the technology, self sovereign.

828
00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:57,000
That's such a good question. That's a really good question.

829
00:59:57,000 --> 01:00:02,000
The way I think, I think PROS will still exist.

830
01:00:02,000 --> 01:00:05,000
I don't think they'll completely die.

831
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:09,000
But the way AI is moving as well.

832
01:00:09,000 --> 01:00:10,000
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

833
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:22,000
The way, like, they're saying basically five years time that the AI will be intelligent as the whole of humanity.

834
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:29,000
Very hard to see how services, but I think humans always we always find a way to adapt always.

835
01:00:29,000 --> 01:00:31,000
So I don't think it will completely die.

836
01:00:31,000 --> 01:00:50,000
They will find ways to work with the technology, technology, in fact, their survival, if HMV, HMV is still alive, like it's not completely dead, but blockbusters, if they found ways to put themselves position themselves in streaming, they would still be as strong as they were.

837
01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:52,000
But, you know, you have to move.

838
01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:53,000
Yeah, yeah, no, definitely.

839
01:00:53,000 --> 01:01:05,000
And I think what you said before, you mentioned something earlier, you know, we'll get into it. But, you know, with Jim and what he's doing, you know, and we'll have Jim on the show at some point.

840
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:20,000
So, you know, Jim and what he's doing, like that is something that's come up in his discussions on Bitcoin live, you know, a few times, you know, like technologies that the PROS can use.

841
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:43,000
And I think that lightning is only one way of maybe the PROS being able to track or use but it's not like, and it's not as, as granularly, granularly sorry, trackable as maybe some of the other L2s or even working with L1 technologies could be.

842
01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:51,000
So it's really the PROS are going to have to play catch up at some point because the artists are doing their own thing.

843
01:01:51,000 --> 01:02:05,000
And just today I tweeted out, you know, we tweeted out on the main profile that Apple had just given into this case, haven't they, right, to allow people to use their own links on their pages.

844
01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:22,000
So, so what Apple, this is only for Europe. So what Apple will be introducing is you can put your website link on your page, and you can also direct people to purchases by direct, right.

845
01:02:22,000 --> 01:02:37,000
So to me that already says that we're, you know, the artist is winning the game, right, the artist is winning here because, because Apple or Spotify or any of the streaming platforms would have never previously allowed you to sell off of their platform.

846
01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:53,000
And it's a fact that Apple have now conceded to saying, hey, we're going to allow developers or music musicians to put their, their website links and take people away from Apple to go and buy from them directly.

847
01:02:53,000 --> 01:03:08,000
And what I read in the article, it also, they're also allowing people to like almost directly advertise so you can, you're allowed to put the messages of this is what you're buying, and this is how much it costs also within that framework.

848
01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:30,000
Yeah, so, so that's going to be really interesting, right, because now I'd say for the average Apple music artist is going to be the ones who are going to benefit the most are the people who have already got a website, who have already got, you know, a channel set up, you know, or funnel set up to be able to get people as a direct community member.

849
01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:39,000
So it's big things man and, yeah, this is getting to what I was saying that Apple, they know how to adapt to it. They constantly adapt.

850
01:03:39,000 --> 01:03:40,000
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

851
01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:48,000
But the PR rose are going to work for artists that just haven't got the mental capacity to do it.

852
01:03:48,000 --> 01:03:50,000
To handle it, yeah, to do it.

853
01:03:50,000 --> 01:04:06,000
Yeah, right. And that's kind of like the benefit of being early in the crypto space as a whole, in that you can offer service to those that just do not have the mental capacity to do, even the AI stuff, people that have the mental capacity to simply.

854
01:04:06,000 --> 01:04:12,000
Even though they can use the AI to do the AI stuff for them. Yeah, because they don't get it yet, they understand.

855
01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:27,000
So you can provide that service for them. And that's why the PR rose are important in the old will continue to survive because there's going to be, there's X amount of independent artists but there's also Y amount of independent artists that it's literally, it's just too much for them.

856
01:04:27,000 --> 01:04:33,000
That's why the PR rose who position themselves well, can be like, we'll handle that for you.

857
01:04:33,000 --> 01:04:34,000
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

858
01:04:34,000 --> 01:04:35,000
So you just go to check on your art.

859
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:36,000
Yeah, 100%.

860
01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:45,000
And so, as soon as we get into a bit of time, a bit over time, but it's fucking great talking to you, always good talking to you bro.

861
01:04:45,000 --> 01:05:07,000
Like, if you were to given, if you were given a single platform or solution that dealt with all of these difficulties. Would you test it out, would you put music on it, would you use it. Yeah, even if it meant you having to do a bit of studying to learn how it actually works.

862
01:05:07,000 --> 01:05:15,000
Because what we hear a lot of the time is that we tell people, you know, use this use that everyone's got their preference what you use.

863
01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:23,000
But sometimes it's like, hey, this, hey, that, and people are like, yeah, I haven't got time for that this works.

864
01:05:23,000 --> 01:05:33,000
I say it goes back to what you just said a minute ago the PR PR rose are providing these services so that musicians are not running around chasing their own bag, basically.

865
01:05:33,000 --> 01:05:39,000
But you know if you say to a guy, hey, here's a way that you can do it without the PR rose.

866
01:05:39,000 --> 01:05:53,000
Are they prepared to actually say, well, I need to do a little bit of study that may gain me an extra, you know, percentage or extra control. Are they prepared to do that.

867
01:05:53,000 --> 01:06:05,000
So in your mind, if again, I hit you today and I say to you, yo, now I've got this platform, you know, you're gonna have to study a little bit to understand how this shit works.

868
01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:13,000
But, you know, you can use this and become fully independent and also have greater earning potential. What do you think?

869
01:06:13,000 --> 01:06:23,000
I'll be like 1000% yes. And this is why this is one that the different tenants of crypto.

870
01:06:23,000 --> 01:06:31,000
Again, it's so important because it relates like for self sovereignty, you want to have a non custodian wallet.

871
01:06:31,000 --> 01:06:41,000
And if you don't, then you're going to be operating with a bank 3.0.

872
01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:48,000
And so just to break that down there, right. So, so non custodial wallet or bank 3.0.

873
01:06:48,000 --> 01:07:04,000
Let's just quickly maybe for the viewers just explain what is a non custodial wallet and why shouldn't they or for you from your perspective, why wouldn't you prefer bank 2.0 or 3.0.

874
01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:15,000
So basically, and yeah, Bitcoin is created for self autonomy, essentially, ownership and control of your money.

875
01:07:15,000 --> 01:07:22,000
A lot of people don't understand and appreciate that when their money is in the bank, they haven't got control over it.

876
01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:28,000
And it's because for most like 99.9% of times, if you want to draw out your money, you can, if you want to shift your money around, you can.

877
01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:38,000
But people don't know are aware that the interest that is developed on your money, the bank is basically utilizing your money to make money elsewhere.

878
01:07:38,000 --> 01:07:44,000
And giving you a fraction of it as a little reward for them doing whatever they want to do with your money.

879
01:07:44,000 --> 01:07:52,000
But you're basically what people don't realize is that all the pennies in the bank that they're putting in the bank is really just them loan in the bank one.

880
01:07:52,000 --> 01:07:58,000
And even the thing of getting credit and it's all a game.

881
01:07:58,000 --> 01:08:03,000
But anyway, the exchanges represent that to me as well.

882
01:08:03,000 --> 01:08:09,000
And we know this when there's hacks, we know this, we see this when there's the FTX situation.

883
01:08:09,000 --> 01:08:11,000
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

884
01:08:11,000 --> 01:08:20,000
And by the way, just to make it clear, people who might have seen that FTX situation outside of this space, the FTX situation is not a technology thing.

885
01:08:20,000 --> 01:08:29,000
It is just a scammer that faked that he was using the technology to scam people out of their money.

886
01:08:29,000 --> 01:08:33,000
So it's not it's nothing to do with technology or all the technology didn't scam anybody.

887
01:08:33,000 --> 01:08:36,000
It didn't break it. It was him. It wasn't hacked.

888
01:08:36,000 --> 01:08:48,000
And hacks generally happen again, just to kind of make the distinction between between the non-custodial custodian.

889
01:08:48,000 --> 01:08:54,000
You say exchanges exchanges crypto exchanges are generally using a custodial model.

890
01:08:54,000 --> 01:09:05,000
So they hold on to your funds, whereas a non-custodial model means that you are holding the ownership, the action, the administration rights over your funds,

891
01:09:05,000 --> 01:09:09,000
even though you might be trading them through a platform, which is an exchange.

892
01:09:09,000 --> 01:09:11,000
That's a decentralized exchange.

893
01:09:11,000 --> 01:09:15,000
And then we have a centralized exchange, which is essentially what you were just describing.

894
01:09:15,000 --> 01:09:20,000
The centralized exchange is the bank. And that's the thing. FTX at the time was trusted.

895
01:09:20,000 --> 01:09:26,000
At the time, some SPF was put out as the crypto god.

896
01:09:26,000 --> 01:09:29,000
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he was gassed. He was gassed.

897
01:09:29,000 --> 01:09:35,000
He was gassed funny. And the media did that. And, you know, you can go into conspiracy and all that kind of stuff.

898
01:09:35,000 --> 01:09:42,000
But the point is, is that when you have a non-custodial wallet, that is down to you.

899
01:09:42,000 --> 01:09:46,000
So if anything happens to it, you have to only look at yourself.

900
01:09:46,000 --> 01:09:52,000
If you forget your key phrase, if you forget your password and that's it, then that's on you.

901
01:09:52,000 --> 01:09:54,000
You can only look at yourself in the mirror and be like that.

902
01:09:54,000 --> 01:10:00,000
And there's a sense of security when you have a big platform or an exchange that has got that.

903
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:04,000
But if that's gone, that's gone. And you have no control over it.

904
01:10:04,000 --> 01:10:06,000
And I see it the same as being an artist now.

905
01:10:06,000 --> 01:10:16,000
Like if Spotify tomorrow crashes and it's highly unlikely, but we saw you can see big giants fall all the time.

906
01:10:16,000 --> 01:10:21,000
If Spotify crashes, then what happens to all the everyone's music on there?

907
01:10:21,000 --> 01:10:24,000
Yeah, and any road is that you may not have claimed from there.

908
01:10:24,000 --> 01:10:28,000
Especially if you go to bankruptcy or something like that.

909
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:32,000
And it's a similar thing we see with deplatforming as well. Do you understand that?

910
01:10:32,000 --> 01:10:41,000
The platforms can stop you from putting out what you want to put out or use the algorithm to downplay what you've put out.

911
01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:44,000
We see that hell of a lot on YouTube, don't we?

912
01:10:44,000 --> 01:10:48,000
So that's what everybody probably understands on YouTube.

913
01:10:48,000 --> 01:10:51,000
So to answer your question, yes, 100 percent.

914
01:10:51,000 --> 01:10:59,000
Because if I have greater independence on what I'm doing, then I feel much more comfortable looking in the mirror and say,

915
01:10:59,000 --> 01:11:03,000
OK, this is what I did wrong, this is what I did right, or whatever.

916
01:11:03,000 --> 01:11:06,000
And there's a full understanding of what's happening with it as well.

917
01:11:06,000 --> 01:11:13,000
And with NFTs now, the good thing about NFTs is that you retain value as an artist as long as it's in there.

918
01:11:13,000 --> 01:11:25,000
So the selling on of the NFT, so your initial community, they buy the NFT, they get a value from it from the secondary sale.

919
01:11:25,000 --> 01:11:29,000
But then you will always get a percentage from it.

920
01:11:29,000 --> 01:11:31,000
And that's such a blessed thing.

921
01:11:31,000 --> 01:11:33,000
In an autonomous way as well.

922
01:11:33,000 --> 01:11:36,000
In an autonomous way. As an artist, that is so blessed.

923
01:11:36,000 --> 01:11:46,000
Can you imagine, that's not been a situation where you sell a vinyl, you sell a CD, where you can retain the value of that in the future.

924
01:11:46,000 --> 01:11:51,000
Especially if somebody goes and sells it at a secondary sale or whatever.

925
01:11:51,000 --> 01:11:57,000
Visual artists as well, this is game changing for them because how many times do visual artists sell their artwork for this amount?

926
01:11:57,000 --> 01:12:00,000
And then it can go on if they become successful.

927
01:12:00,000 --> 01:12:02,000
They don't ever get that value.

928
01:12:02,000 --> 01:12:09,000
They go up to millions and they don't get any cut of that vinyl sale at the end of the sale.

929
01:12:09,000 --> 01:12:11,000
So yeah, that's it, man.

930
01:12:11,000 --> 01:12:15,000
All right, cool. Listen, Nat, it's been fucking great, bro.

931
01:12:15,000 --> 01:12:19,000
It has been great. As always, my brother.

932
01:12:19,000 --> 01:12:22,000
As always. So, two Nats combined.

933
01:12:22,000 --> 01:12:25,000
The two Nats combined, didn't it? Nat and Nat, yeah.

934
01:12:25,000 --> 01:12:27,000
It's dangerous out here.

935
01:12:27,000 --> 01:12:35,000
So before we wrap up, what I want you to do is just let the people know what it is that you're working on now that's coming next.

936
01:12:35,000 --> 01:12:39,000
Or any kind of shows that you've got coming up, events coming up.

937
01:12:39,000 --> 01:12:43,000
Also where they can find and to connect with you directly.

938
01:12:43,000 --> 01:12:49,000
So I was meant to mention, and because I talk in your fashion, so because you did art earlier.

939
01:12:49,000 --> 01:12:57,000
So yeah, from when we connected and such and then I come a member of the Stats London community.

940
01:12:57,000 --> 01:13:04,000
And I have been running a show, the Web Free F.R.E.E. Music and Poetry Show.

941
01:13:04,000 --> 01:13:08,000
We do that every fortnight Monday.

942
01:13:08,000 --> 01:13:13,000
And at the moment it is grassroots and like I said, I'm just getting my ducks in a row and such.

943
01:13:13,000 --> 01:13:18,000
And this one is actually a really special one. My vision for this is going to be massive.

944
01:13:18,000 --> 01:13:21,000
You know, carving at this stage.

945
01:13:21,000 --> 01:13:27,000
But there is going to be a point when it is going to get like risen on a whole other level.

946
01:13:27,000 --> 01:13:33,000
And where we get artists involved. At the moment, it's conversations, a lot of conversations, being reasonings.

947
01:13:33,000 --> 01:13:35,000
You cover a few, dropping a whole lot of jewels.

948
01:13:35,000 --> 01:13:41,000
Like the last one was really good. We had a whole different demographic coming through.

949
01:13:41,000 --> 01:13:45,000
Everyone is in a dropping gems vibe.

950
01:13:45,000 --> 01:13:49,000
But I do want music to be on there. I do want some poetry on there.

951
01:13:49,000 --> 01:13:52,000
I do want some art in general, as we shared on there as well.

952
01:13:52,000 --> 01:13:55,000
And I do want that space where there is that.

953
01:13:55,000 --> 01:14:03,000
So that's every, you can find that on the Stats London Twitter platform STX LDN.

954
01:14:03,000 --> 01:14:06,000
Every other Monday, the X platform.

955
01:14:06,000 --> 01:14:08,000
X, formerly known as.

956
01:14:08,000 --> 01:14:10,000
The platform formerly known as well.

957
01:14:10,000 --> 01:14:14,000
And yeah, like I'm inspired by you.

958
01:14:14,000 --> 01:14:22,000
And I'm grateful for these inspirations because me, I'm inspired by people around me more than I am by icons.

959
01:14:22,000 --> 01:14:25,000
As great as they are and they do inspire me.

960
01:14:25,000 --> 01:14:30,000
But it's more the people around me that I see personally what they're doing.

961
01:14:30,000 --> 01:14:36,000
Basically, like I'm saying, I'm just sorting out certain things, getting them in the row.

962
01:14:36,000 --> 01:14:38,000
And then we're going to start going far.

963
01:14:38,000 --> 01:14:43,000
So fast, hard and like I'm saying, I'm going to be sharing the journey of it.

964
01:14:43,000 --> 01:14:44,000
Sharing the artistic journey.

965
01:14:44,000 --> 01:14:50,000
So the things that is going to be most successful to people is what I have rough and raw.

966
01:14:50,000 --> 01:14:54,000
And then when that's, you get that, when it's polished.

967
01:14:54,000 --> 01:14:56,000
And I've gathered a critical mass.

968
01:14:56,000 --> 01:15:01,000
And you're going to get the polished in the form of NFTs and ordinals and such.

969
01:15:01,000 --> 01:15:04,000
And we're in a compilation.

970
01:15:04,000 --> 01:15:06,000
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

971
01:15:06,000 --> 01:15:11,000
I shouldn't even say too much, but it's a compilation basically that I'm involved in and I'm looking forward to it.

972
01:15:11,000 --> 01:15:15,000
Stella B, she's got a visual art, so she's going to be coming more into the form.

973
01:15:15,000 --> 01:15:18,000
And the two of us, we've got our own projects.

974
01:15:18,000 --> 01:15:21,000
So I'm going to be pushing more and more as an artist.

975
01:15:21,000 --> 01:15:28,000
So you can follow me on Natnye, N-A-T-N-Y-E, like New Year's Eve.

976
01:15:28,000 --> 01:15:35,000
TLA, The Lyrical Alchemist, Natnye, TLA on all socials.

977
01:15:35,000 --> 01:15:38,000
And soon enough, you're going to see the journey.

978
01:15:38,000 --> 01:15:44,000
And yeah, my whole journey as an artist is, like I said, purpose driven.

979
01:15:44,000 --> 01:15:48,000
And the way the world is right now, I'm not really feeling it.

980
01:15:48,000 --> 01:15:50,000
And a lot of us are not really feeling it.

981
01:15:50,000 --> 01:15:52,000
And what is being proposed is incoming.

982
01:15:52,000 --> 01:15:53,000
We're not really feeling it.

983
01:15:53,000 --> 01:15:55,000
So this is why I'm championing Bitcoin.

984
01:15:55,000 --> 01:15:58,000
This is why I'm in this space as well.

985
01:15:58,000 --> 01:16:07,000
And I find myself distracted a lot putting out little fires because, you know, linked to what I was saying earlier, I'm an activist.

986
01:16:07,000 --> 01:16:10,000
I'm finding myself giving stuff in the community and such and such.

987
01:16:10,000 --> 01:16:13,000
But really, now is the time for building.

988
01:16:13,000 --> 01:16:14,000
This is what we're here for.

989
01:16:14,000 --> 01:16:15,000
We've got to build.

990
01:16:15,000 --> 01:16:17,000
We've got to build the world we want to live in.

991
01:16:17,000 --> 01:16:23,000
All the arts is generated towards that and the action behind it being a part of the Bitcoin movement as well.

992
01:16:23,000 --> 01:16:25,000
And it's all about building.

993
01:16:25,000 --> 01:16:26,000
What world are we building?

994
01:16:26,000 --> 01:16:30,000
And that's where my focus really is on now.

995
01:16:30,000 --> 01:16:31,000
Building.

996
01:16:31,000 --> 01:16:34,000
And in order to build, you need money.

997
01:16:34,000 --> 01:16:35,000
What's good money? Bitcoin.

998
01:16:35,000 --> 01:16:40,000
So it's about getting the value from what I'm doing because I can't do it starving.

999
01:16:40,000 --> 01:16:43,000
I can't do it less than.

1000
01:16:43,000 --> 01:16:44,000
You need resources.

1001
01:16:44,000 --> 01:16:46,000
Yeah, I need to be sovereign.

1002
01:16:46,000 --> 01:16:47,000
That's it.

1003
01:16:47,000 --> 01:16:51,000
So this music podcast, I'm grateful for being the premier, the first.

1004
01:16:51,000 --> 01:16:52,000
Let's hope.

1005
01:16:52,000 --> 01:16:53,000
On here.

1006
01:16:53,000 --> 01:16:54,000
Let's hope.

1007
01:16:54,000 --> 01:16:55,000
Nat Cole.

1008
01:16:55,000 --> 01:16:58,000
So listen, guys, sovereign music podcast, you heard it from the man himself.

1009
01:16:58,000 --> 01:17:01,000
Episode one, season one.

1010
01:17:01,000 --> 01:17:05,000
We're going to be catching up with Nat now like a hell of a lot, I suppose, over this time.

1011
01:17:05,000 --> 01:17:07,000
He's going to be putting stuff out.

1012
01:17:07,000 --> 01:17:09,000
But let's hope for coming through and watching the podcast.

1013
01:17:09,000 --> 01:17:12,000
And again, you can find us everywhere.

1014
01:17:12,000 --> 01:17:18,000
Underscore sovereign music on Twitter, but everywhere else, sovereign music podcast.

1015
01:17:18,000 --> 01:17:28,000
And again, the main podcast you can catch up with on coinscrumb.com forward slash sovereign dash music dash podcast.

1016
01:17:28,000 --> 01:17:29,000
Big up, people.

1017
01:17:29,000 --> 01:17:57,000
We'll see you on the next one.

1018
01:17:59,000 --> 01:18:01,000
Thank you.