1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,720 Welcome to the TradGuard Wicca Podcast. 2 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:07,300 This podcast is for both seekers and initiates of the Gardenerian path and focuses on historical 3 00:00:07,300 --> 00:00:10,000 contexts as well as modern day concerns. 4 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:15,040 All contributors are either elders, high priests, or high priestesses of the traditional Gardenerian 5 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:44,360 wicca, sung with several decades in the craft. 6 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:48,480 Our guest today is Gardenerian High Priestess Iris Starr, who has been practicing Gardenerian 7 00:00:48,480 --> 00:00:50,240 Wicca for over 30 years. 8 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:54,440 In this episode, Iris Starr, Hermes, and I take a look at the Seeker Experience and 9 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:56,440 how it has changed over the years. 10 00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:59,800 We will also discuss how to find a group to work with, what to look for when choosing 11 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:02,760 a group, and Seeker Etiquette. 12 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:07,540 So we've talked a bit about in episode 1 and 2 the origins of Gardener, where he got 13 00:01:07,540 --> 00:01:12,280 what he worked on, and how he came to forming Gardenerian Wicca and the influences there. 14 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:16,000 In the second episode, we did talk about traditional Gardenerian Wicca and the beliefs and tenets 15 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:18,520 that serve as the basis for the practice. 16 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:22,720 Now what we want to discuss today is the Seeker Experience and finding a group if you are 17 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:26,380 interested in traditional Gardenerian Wicca, and there are a lot of dimensions that go 18 00:01:26,380 --> 00:01:27,720 into that work. 19 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:32,080 So I think what we want to talk about before we go into anything else really is fit for 20 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:36,000 the tradition, and what that kind of looks like, and why you might want to consider if 21 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:37,960 this is the right fit for you. 22 00:01:37,960 --> 00:01:41,080 Because I don't know that everybody kind of does that, and I think that it would be 23 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:45,400 a good idea to hover on that before we go over how you do it, right? 24 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:48,960 So I guess I will go over to Hermes and ask, what do you think are the qualities that are 25 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:52,800 important to have when you look at traditional Gardenerian Wicca as an option? 26 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:55,400 What would constitute good fit? 27 00:01:55,400 --> 00:02:02,560 So I would say what would constitute good fit is a willingness to embrace tradition. 28 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:10,400 And oftentimes we see that people want to change tradition rather than understanding 29 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:13,680 what the tradition is and why is in place. 30 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:18,240 You know, the idea is not to just invoke change for change's sake. 31 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:25,440 You also have to be okay with the fact that we are a mystery fertility cult, and in there 32 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:30,000 there's an element of mystery, an element of the unknown, and you have to be okay with 33 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:35,640 that, and that's kind of difficult in today's gratification culture, because people want 34 00:02:35,640 --> 00:02:40,040 everything, they want all the knowledge, and they want it up front. 35 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:46,800 This is different than traditional Gardenerian Wicca, where you'll be copying from a book 36 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:52,060 by hand, and it takes years to go from degree to degree. 37 00:02:52,060 --> 00:02:55,960 You know, we say that there are some people who are raised a third degree in three years, 38 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:59,160 and that's not the norm, nor is it even desired. 39 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:04,240 Iris Star, what do you think are some of the fits for traditional Gardenerian Wicca that 40 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:05,880 seekers should be aware of? 41 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:13,880 Well, usually when I speak to seekers, I usually let them know that, you know, a little bit 42 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:15,760 about what we encompass. 43 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:23,680 I let them know that there's a polarity that goes with the traditional Gardenerians, and 44 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:30,960 we worship using male-female, the love of the God and the Goddess, and that's really 45 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:35,800 very basic, and that's very, very core. 46 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:40,200 Also, that they need to be okay with sky-clad. 47 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:47,640 We tell them right up front for entering into our Seekers Group so that they know that that's 48 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:55,760 what is ultimately going to be required if it's agreeable for them to come into our coven. 49 00:03:55,760 --> 00:04:04,560 You know, that way, if they're just not into that right off the bat, they'll know, and 50 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:09,480 they will thank us for our time and leave. 51 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:15,560 So I think that this is interesting too, because Gardenerian Wicca is structured a little differently 52 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:20,440 than some other traditions might be, in such that you do have a working partner, or at 53 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:23,240 least at a certain point that has an important goal to have. 54 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:25,000 It's not the goal when you come in, right? 55 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:28,600 So when you're looking for the individual experience and spiritual growth, you're really 56 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:30,240 going to find that in the lower degrees. 57 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:32,640 You're going to find that obviously in the Seeker Groups. 58 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:36,200 The first degree will be focused on that, and I think part of second degree is focused 59 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:37,280 on that. 60 00:04:37,280 --> 00:04:40,920 When you move into second degree, then you're going to be working towards learning how to 61 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:43,800 run a group, and we run groups in pairs. 62 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:45,480 That's how Gardenerian Craft is done. 63 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:49,680 And so in second degree and third degree, you're going to have that experience. 64 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:54,880 The individual experience on a spiritual level is different from the experience of working 65 00:04:54,880 --> 00:05:01,000 as a partnership, and the range of experience is different between if it's a platonic relationship 66 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:05,280 or if it's a couple and the different areas that can be explored in there. 67 00:05:05,280 --> 00:05:09,200 So when you're thinking about fit, you're not just thinking about, okay, do I like the 68 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:10,840 beliefs and tenets? 69 00:05:10,840 --> 00:05:15,760 You're thinking, how far do I want to go into the practice, and what does that mean at different 70 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:17,800 stages of the practice? 71 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:22,120 To what Hermes said, I mean, Gardenerian Craft is one of the earliest and most well-structured 72 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:23,120 traditions out there. 73 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:26,120 You know, the structure has served it well, and it has really allowed it to flourish over 74 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:27,280 the decade. 75 00:05:27,280 --> 00:05:32,000 So if you're seeking, right, and you're thinking about fit, do you want something where, you 76 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:36,400 know, you're going to have a solid training behind what you're doing, or do you want something 77 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:38,080 a little more fluid? 78 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:42,080 Most traditions will have some form of training, but I think Gardenerian has a form that is 79 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:44,240 pretty well structured at this point. 80 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:51,480 Another thing I would just mention about fit is that we produce priests and priestesses, 81 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:56,480 and I think that some people aren't aware that that's kind of what we're doing when 82 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:57,480 you come to training. 83 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:03,400 So I've had people come to like a WICO 101 or some other kind of training, and they're 84 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:08,200 really there just kind of for the social experience of it, and they're not really understanding 85 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:10,360 fully that they're a trained priest and priestess. 86 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:14,360 Now we make a call out for that, but it's something you should consider if you're considering 87 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:18,960 traditional Gardenerian WICA, because being a priest or priest does come with, you know, 88 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:19,960 certain responsibilities. 89 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:24,120 It comes with a certain standard, and it does come with, like Hermes said, many years of 90 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:29,240 training to really get you to a certain place both spiritually and as practitioner and as 91 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:32,920 a leader, if that's something that you want to do. 92 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:35,120 I think that's a great point, Zeya Lynn. 93 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:41,120 And yeah, and I'd like to emphasize that the training in Gardenerian WICA has been going 94 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:46,260 on and the material's been collected for at least, you know, 50 years at this point. 95 00:06:46,260 --> 00:06:51,800 We use old training materials that have been hand-typed on a typewriter, and you can still 96 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:54,880 see the marks on the photocopied pages. 97 00:06:54,880 --> 00:07:00,280 But that's, I think, is an important distinction that you bring up between other forms of WICA 98 00:07:00,280 --> 00:07:03,500 and traditional Gardenerian WICA. 99 00:07:03,500 --> 00:07:09,240 We are training people to be priests and priestesses, and that is reflected in the quality of training. 100 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:14,280 One of the things I think you might get from other traditions that you don't get in Gardenerian 101 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:17,800 WICA is that other traditions don't have a base to draw from. 102 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:20,360 They don't have a lineage to draw from. 103 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:25,000 And so consequently, they're training, they might get their materials entirely from published 104 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:26,000 books. 105 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:31,000 And at that point, what really are you learning that's special that you can't learn anywhere 106 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:32,160 else? 107 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:36,640 And the answer is not much, because if you're being trained from books, that information's 108 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:38,360 out there anyway. 109 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:44,520 So that's what I think one of the draws is towards traditional practice, be it Gardenerian 110 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:51,200 or Alexandrian, you know, Mochean, Central Valley, whatever, is that we're training you 111 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:58,780 to be priests and priestesses of a religion where training that you will receive is on 112 00:07:58,780 --> 00:08:02,440 par with being a priest or priestess. 113 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:09,720 And that goes above what you will get in general WICA 101 books or even WICA 102 books, because 114 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:15,960 it goes, you get training on things that are not just Gardenerian based, but also how to 115 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:22,000 deal with people, how to do divination, how to manage energies, things that you won't 116 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:26,760 necessarily find in intro to WICA book. 117 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:34,160 I would have to say though, that with my early training some 30 years ago or so, I didn't 118 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:40,320 know that that was what coming into the coven would be. 119 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:42,320 It was more organic. 120 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:51,840 Like we came to a pagan way and we were in there in the pagan way for two, three years, 121 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:53,760 or it could be shorter. 122 00:08:53,760 --> 00:09:00,400 And then we asked to come into the coven, but no one specifically told us back then 123 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:05,560 that we're training to be priests and priestesses. 124 00:09:05,560 --> 00:09:14,520 I think it's just because it was a natural progression rather than everything being told 125 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:17,020 to us or handed to us. 126 00:09:17,020 --> 00:09:20,720 It was more of an awakening. 127 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:24,480 And so that's been my experience. 128 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:27,960 So Iris Starr, just to remind everyone, when were you initiated? 129 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:28,960 What year? 130 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:30,560 1986. 131 00:09:30,560 --> 00:09:32,000 86. 132 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:33,000 Okay, yeah. 133 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:38,000 I was initiated in 2013 and I believe Eowyn was initiated 2014. 134 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:39,000 Yeah. 135 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:42,560 Yeah, we're about one year apart. 136 00:09:42,560 --> 00:09:46,320 And Iris Starr, I was going to ask as well, and this kind of leads into my other probably 137 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:51,560 final point about fit, traditional practice is not necessarily kind of a social club. 138 00:09:51,560 --> 00:09:57,760 It's more of a, yes, there are social elements that we enjoy and that are desired, but it 139 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:00,440 is a spiritual and religious practice, right? 140 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:05,800 And so it sounds like your original experiences were maybe billed as more of a social thing 141 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:10,680 or came through that way, but then you found out about the kind of the priest or priestess 142 00:10:10,680 --> 00:10:11,680 training. 143 00:10:11,680 --> 00:10:15,520 I would say that for a reason, I, when we train, we let people know right up front today. 144 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:19,320 So is that a difference that, and we'll talk more about this in a little bit, but is that 145 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:26,000 a difference that you're seeing between then and now, or is it just that it was practiced 146 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:28,360 differently at that time? 147 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:36,040 It definitely was different back then because it wasn't even called a training circle. 148 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:38,460 It was called a pagan way. 149 00:10:38,460 --> 00:10:48,640 So in the pagan way, you would celebrate the festivals and you would do some type of event 150 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:52,720 for each one of those festivals. 151 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:55,420 And it was very much social. 152 00:10:55,420 --> 00:11:03,160 In a way, that was a good way to be because it created the fun, it created the draw to 153 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:04,540 come back. 154 00:11:04,540 --> 00:11:09,120 It created the camaraderie amongst everybody. 155 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:15,560 You really were drawn to each other as brother and sister, that you would have each other's 156 00:11:15,560 --> 00:11:16,680 back. 157 00:11:16,680 --> 00:11:21,200 There was also brother, sister fighting. 158 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:27,480 And of course there was also the male-female aspect of it too. 159 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:31,080 A lot of people getting together back then. 160 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:37,320 So yeah, it was very much different than it is today. 161 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:44,720 Our training that Eowyn and I receive, we actually use the same pagan way material that 162 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:46,320 Irisstar used. 163 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:53,920 However, our training was much more in changing the way we think versus specific concrete 164 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:54,920 topics. 165 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:59,480 Well, I think there's also variability of course from high priest and priestess to high 166 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:00,620 priest and priestess. 167 00:12:00,620 --> 00:12:03,360 So you're going to have some more or less structure. 168 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:09,160 But I think that to what Irisstar was saying is that there seems to be more encouragement 169 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:13,880 towards a structured process that is a little more academic. 170 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:17,760 And that's certainly true in America, I'm not sure how it's done over in England or 171 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:20,720 in other locations if it's following that as well. 172 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:26,600 But it's definitely a little more academic here than maybe it was more organic as Irisstar 173 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:29,520 said back when she started. 174 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:39,560 Well, during the pagan ways back when I started, the material that we have for the rituals 175 00:12:39,560 --> 00:12:48,400 are a little bit more expanded than the rituals that we were given now. 176 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:57,440 So it's beautiful for us because we have two different types of rituals that we can pull 177 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:05,080 from that are both beautiful, that are both meaningful, that we like to use. 178 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:08,680 You know, one of the things I think people need to realize, and we'll probably talk about 179 00:13:08,680 --> 00:13:13,120 this a little more at other times, is that there are lots of different types of people 180 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:16,440 who are attracted to Gardner and Wicca. 181 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:22,360 So when you're thinking about fit, I would say that the spiritual aspect needs to be 182 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:26,920 more important than the other aspects, and because it's the unifying factor. 183 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:31,160 So you're going to meet people from different socioeconomic backgrounds, different educational 184 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:35,480 backgrounds, different racial backgrounds, and different prior experiences with religion. 185 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:40,960 And that has to be kind of, you just need to be aware of that because it's very possible 186 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:44,280 you'll meet someone or deal with someone who has very different ideas about how the world 187 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:48,760 should be run, or what the right political thing is to do or whatever. 188 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:53,160 And if that's your guidepost, you know, that's not going to serve you over time. 189 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:55,240 It doesn't serve the tradition over time. 190 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:58,200 What serves all of us is being focused on the spiritual. 191 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:02,040 It's just something to be aware of, I think, when you're thinking about fit. 192 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:06,120 And I would say being okay with some of that variability rather than looking for a bunch 193 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:09,960 of niches that you fit into all at once within the Gardnering craft. 194 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:13,600 The other thing I would mention is you should ask yourself some questions when you're thinking 195 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:15,240 of, is this the right fit for me? 196 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:17,720 You know, do I agree with the basic tenets of Wicca? 197 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:20,800 Am I okay practicing in a structured way? 198 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:24,600 Do I acknowledge that as a priest or priestess I would have some responsibilities to uphold 199 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:28,040 the tradition, as well as act in certain ways becoming of such a designation? 200 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:31,160 You know, the answer is no, or I'm not sure. 201 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:32,360 That's okay. 202 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:35,760 And if I'm not sure, then maybe you do need to go into a training group and learn more 203 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:38,920 about things and really feel it out before you commit. 204 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:42,400 Okay, so I wanted to talk next a little bit about lineage. 205 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:43,840 You know, what is it? 206 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:45,780 How does it matter or not matter? 207 00:14:45,780 --> 00:14:49,880 So I'm going to throw this over to Iris Star just to hear some of her thoughts on lineage 208 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:54,960 when it comes to the Seeker Experience and we're seeking traditional Gardnering Wicca. 209 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:59,060 Lineage matters a lot for traditional Gardnerians. 210 00:14:59,060 --> 00:15:07,400 It means that we can trace our line, our initiations, all the way back to Gardner and that the 211 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:16,240 rites that we're doing in our covens is also the rites that were handed to us by Gerald 212 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:17,540 Gardner. 213 00:15:17,540 --> 00:15:27,840 This is the way that we do our rites and we do it by not changing one word of those rites. 214 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:34,120 I would say that there is some, there's going to be some argument about that because we 215 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:39,100 do change, you know, words here or there. 216 00:15:39,100 --> 00:15:42,080 We do have some differences between the lines. 217 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:48,020 And so it's really, I think, more so, does it capture the energy of what we are supposed 218 00:15:48,020 --> 00:15:50,700 to be doing, of the season, of the rite? 219 00:15:50,700 --> 00:15:55,820 We have a rule where, you know, you're not supposed to change the original rituals, but 220 00:15:55,820 --> 00:15:57,760 you can add, right? 221 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:02,320 So or if you're going to, you know, completely change the ritual or redo it, it really needs 222 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:04,740 to mirror what's going on in the ritual, right? 223 00:16:04,740 --> 00:16:08,880 So to me, this is like understanding the why of what we do and then you can write a ritual 224 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:09,880 for that. 225 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:15,320 But in terms of lineage, I personally think that there's a lot more emphasis on lineage 226 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:17,480 than there needs to be. 227 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:23,640 I actually root things more in kind of what is the philosophical guideposts and the practical 228 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:28,120 guideposts of our tradition that to me is more important. 229 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:32,520 So I think it depends on who you're talking to about lineage and maybe even when they 230 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:34,200 entered the craft. 231 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:38,560 But in terms of the seeker experience, in terms of what they're, what they should expect 232 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:42,600 in terms of what is lineage, how does it factor into what they're doing, all that kind of 233 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:45,960 stuff, where would you place that for them? 234 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:49,080 What should they be focusing on with that? 235 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:53,920 I would agree with Irisstar in that lineage is very important. 236 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:58,200 Lineage is the link of high priestesses and high priests going back to Gardener and it's 237 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:03,000 what separates Gardenerian practice from other forms of Wicca. 238 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:06,760 And I think people don't really get why that's important. 239 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:12,040 So they think that, oh, it's just the practice is going back to Gardener so I can just read, 240 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:17,520 you know, an online book of shadows and I can get all that lineage and that that's not 241 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:19,200 the case. 242 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:25,320 What makes the Wicca is not the spells, it's not the BOS, it's the lineage because traditional 243 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:29,000 Gardenerian Wicca is an oral tradition. 244 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:35,120 Probably about 70% of the actual tradition is not written down in the BOS and that tradition 245 00:17:35,120 --> 00:17:38,700 is only passed from high priestess to initiate. 246 00:17:38,700 --> 00:17:43,640 So it's certain elements of these oral teachings from Gerald Gardener that are incompatible 247 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:48,800 with inclusive Gardenerian Wicca, hence the split that happened between traditional Gardenerian 248 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:51,480 Wicca and inclusive Gardenerian Wicca. 249 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:55,780 It's not so much the book of shadows, but these oral teachings and you only get those 250 00:17:55,780 --> 00:18:03,240 oral teachings through the lineage because it's passed mouth to ear from teacher to student. 251 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:07,120 The other thing I would note about lineage is that as you kind of get further away from 252 00:18:07,120 --> 00:18:11,440 Gardener, right, so, you know, four, five, six, seven, some people are 10, 11 down from 253 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:17,480 Gardener, I think the likelihood that the materials that you inherit might have some 254 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:23,560 alterations to them that take away from the original meaning and then the meaning gets 255 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:24,760 lost. 256 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:29,020 That's a risk that happens with lineage, that's connected to lineage. 257 00:18:29,020 --> 00:18:32,920 And so it's not something that anybody can do anything about, right, you're where you're 258 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:33,920 at. 259 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:37,960 But a lot of the people in the craft have really tried to go back to as many original 260 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:42,760 sources as possible, get as much information as possible to understand the why behind what 261 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:43,840 we do. 262 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:48,960 So I just like to note that with lineage because it's just something to be aware of. 263 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:54,800 And then as a seeker, you know, and then as an initiate, where am I away from the original 264 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:55,800 practices? 265 00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:59,480 Could there be differences from what I'm doing and do those differences matter? 266 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:03,440 Those are sort of questions that come out of lineage at a certain point. 267 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:14,880 Well, that's why we say that when the information is passed, it needs to be passed exactly as 268 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:17,000 you received it. 269 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:25,320 So I would think that the way that you received it, you should be giving to your students. 270 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:34,080 And so it doesn't matter how far away the lineage is from Gardner. 271 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:46,160 I will say though, in response to Erowan's comment about it depends on which high priestess 272 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:54,600 that Gerald gave information to, because there are slight differences in the information 273 00:19:54,600 --> 00:20:00,320 that he passed to the different high priestess that he trained. 274 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:05,480 So that's where the differences come that she's talking about. 275 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:14,640 But all of the priestesses were handed material that is traditional Gardnerian craft. 276 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:16,480 You have what's core, right? 277 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:19,300 This is the core element of the tradition. 278 00:20:19,300 --> 00:20:22,200 Then you have rituals that people have expanded upon. 279 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:25,640 And just as long as those are kept separate, that's perfectly fine. 280 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:28,680 So you can continue to pass what's core. 281 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:32,960 And then if you want to pass additional material, you can, but you have to make people aware 282 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:36,640 of, okay, this is additional material that people have added. 283 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:40,080 That's not what was originally passed. 284 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:41,440 I just wanted to clarify. 285 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:44,960 Yes, I'm talking about the high priestesses getting different material from Gardner and 286 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:47,280 that might change what certain lines do. 287 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:52,200 But I also am mentioning it from the fact that high priestesses under them have added 288 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:53,200 things or changed things. 289 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:57,280 And we have what is known as the forklift of shadows for a reason, right? 290 00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:00,960 And that's why I'm hinging things on not lineage. 291 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:04,960 When I say it's not as, you know, to me, it's not as important as other things. 292 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:09,560 It's because we're kind of moving to a place where there's so much of that, that really 293 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:14,240 you need to understand the why of what we do, not just that we do it. 294 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:18,040 And that's why I'm kind of mentioning that as well, because people just, I think, need 295 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:19,040 to be aware. 296 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:23,680 Well, I think Hermes brought up a good point though, too. 297 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:33,580 It should be noted in the book of shadows if it is been elaborated on from the basic 298 00:21:33,580 --> 00:21:37,200 core rituals so that we know. 299 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:41,920 Yeah, ideally, from a seeker's perspective, just to kind of give them an idea of how the 300 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:46,360 lineage impacts, you know, who they're seeking with and what they're learning. 301 00:21:46,360 --> 00:21:51,040 So now that we kind of give you a baseline of like thinking about fit and just knowing 302 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:55,800 a little bit about lineage and how that kind of impacts what you learn, I did want to kind 303 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:58,560 of move us into talking about finding a group. 304 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:04,120 Now I want to note that the tradition is split at this point between traditional gardenarians 305 00:22:04,120 --> 00:22:05,600 and inclusive gardenarians. 306 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:09,720 So you have traditional gardening Wicca and you have inclusive gardening Wicca. 307 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:12,600 And so I'm going to give you resources to connect with both. 308 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:16,340 And I also want to give you a little bit of clarity here because I think it's important 309 00:22:16,340 --> 00:22:19,600 for the seeker at least to understand the differences. 310 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:23,660 Because I think that when you go and talk to people, you're going to get a lot of different 311 00:22:23,660 --> 00:22:26,160 responses about the whole situation. 312 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:30,040 And so I wanted to give kind of a groundwork here. 313 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:34,760 So this podcast is a traditional gardenarian podcast, and we really don't seek to define 314 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:35,760 other practices. 315 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:39,120 However, I'm going to give you a brief clarifying statement in an attempt to provide clarity 316 00:22:39,120 --> 00:22:40,640 to the seeker. 317 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:45,720 Traditional gardenarian Wicca is a binary practice and we initiate priests and priestesses. 318 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:49,480 The focus of traditional gardenarian Wicca is on preserving the practices as passed down 319 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:50,800 by a gardener. 320 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:57,680 And there are several philosophical tenets and beliefs that unify most traditional gardenarians. 321 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:02,420 Really to read more about that, you can go on to www.traditionalgardenarianwicca.com 322 00:23:02,420 --> 00:23:05,560 and review the beliefs and tenets section to get an idea. 323 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:10,560 Or you can listen to the podcast one and two that are on this stream. 324 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:15,360 Inclusive gardenarian Wicca, which is non-binary in its approach, initiates priests, priestesses, 325 00:23:15,360 --> 00:23:16,640 and priestesses. 326 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:21,520 The practitioners nail to rituals to blend in other traditions or practices really in 327 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,960 an effort to accommodate a wider variety of seekers. 328 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:30,200 At this time, I would say there is a wide range of belief and practice that differentiates 329 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:31,620 inclusive gardenarians. 330 00:23:31,620 --> 00:23:34,720 Some are very traditional in their practice with a few caveats. 331 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:38,560 Seekers are very inclusive and have changed a good deal. 332 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:43,720 So really when you're seeking with that group, you really should ask questions or any group, 333 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:47,400 you should ask questions to clarify where they're at on that. 334 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,840 I think traditional gardenarians are more unified at this time about their beliefs and 335 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:52,200 tenets overall. 336 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:56,480 And really just the seeker should be mindful of these differences and just seek a form 337 00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:58,160 of practice that feels right for you. 338 00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:00,300 There is no right or wrong answer here. 339 00:24:00,300 --> 00:24:04,840 It really is what speaks to you on a magical, on a mundane level. 340 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:08,720 So before I go on and give you resources, I just wanted to throw this over to Hermes 341 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:13,800 and I started to give a little more information as they feel is needed. 342 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:18,700 Coming from, again, I mentioned the 30 plus years. 343 00:24:18,700 --> 00:24:26,360 Back in the old days, italics included, we used to, in order to find groups, there was 344 00:24:26,360 --> 00:24:34,760 no online websites, any of that that we could actually go to. 345 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:41,240 Sometimes it was a matter of chance that you would meet up with someone and maybe they 346 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:46,400 were wearing a necklace that looked strange and you ask them a question and they would 347 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:47,860 tell you about it. 348 00:24:47,860 --> 00:24:51,360 And then you would get an interest in that respect. 349 00:24:51,360 --> 00:24:58,020 Maybe you came across a book, which was difficult back then because there wasn't the wide range 350 00:24:58,020 --> 00:25:04,600 of books that there are now that you could read to make you more inquisitive about Wicca 351 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:06,200 and witchcraft. 352 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:16,120 There were message boards in witchy stores that used to advertise groups. 353 00:25:16,120 --> 00:25:21,800 You could find groups through your friends or your lovers. 354 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:22,960 They would mention it. 355 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:28,880 They would say, you know, I think you might make a good fit for this. 356 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:35,920 Also publications would advertise different groups that you could join for training and 357 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:37,340 festivals. 358 00:25:37,340 --> 00:25:44,480 So those are the different places that we had back in the day in order to find like-minded 359 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:45,480 people. 360 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:51,560 And I think that's really shifted from the current landscape and we can talk about this 361 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:52,560 more later. 362 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:56,680 In the current landscape, it's much more online. 363 00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:02,840 Remember we used to have, you know, witchvox, RIP witchvox, which used to be the major meeting 364 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:07,200 hub for paganism and Wiccan and druids, asatru, whatever. 365 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:09,260 It was all included in there. 366 00:26:09,260 --> 00:26:14,160 And it was nice because it was a one-stop shop and it was promoted in books and everyone 367 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:16,000 knew about it. 368 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,680 And then it started waning. 369 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:24,080 Eventually the owners just gave it up and it now exists as, I'm not sure if it's even 370 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:28,600 a blog, it just, but they dropped pretty much everything. 371 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:33,320 And now there's a gap in the community as to where to go. 372 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:38,920 And I think we're too online at this point to go back to certainly the old days of posting 373 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,440 it on the corkboard at your local occult shop. 374 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:45,760 I don't think people are doing that or would be keen to go back to that. 375 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:52,200 So there really is a gap in terms of connecting seekers to traditions. 376 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:57,200 And that's especially hard when we're talking about the gardenarian tradition, which at 377 00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:00,960 least in the U.S. here is primarily along the coasts, right? 378 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:05,760 You have a lot of covens on the East coast and some covens on the West coast and not 379 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:10,360 really a whole lot in between when you compare them to the totality. 380 00:27:10,360 --> 00:27:14,560 So that can certainly make finding a coven more difficult. 381 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:19,680 And that goes back to, I'm sure we're going to talk about later about traveling and lowering 382 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:27,600 your expectations about finding a wise grandmother high priestess in the next town over, which 383 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,040 probably will not be the case for you. 384 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:31,040 Right. 385 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:34,840 Well, and if we're talking about online resources, because I think that's a whole topic and we're 386 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:39,440 going to get into that shortly, I do want to mention that in replacement of Witchvox, 387 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:41,720 there are two resources available. 388 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:47,920 You have Darks and Moon, which is, you know, www.darksandmoon.com that has some of those 389 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:51,760 resources and then Mandragora Magica is also a place for that. 390 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,000 Those are for general, any group. 391 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:55,640 There is no restriction on that. 392 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:59,280 If you're a group and you're operating as a meetup or you're operating as a coven or 393 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:02,300 training group, whatever, you can be found there. 394 00:28:02,300 --> 00:28:06,600 So it's a good resource if you aren't sure if you want to do traditional gardenarian 395 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:11,440 wicca or if you do and you can go there and you can find really what you're looking for 396 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:13,000 within the area. 397 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:16,840 One caveat is, of course, not everybody's listed there, right? 398 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:19,120 So there are groups that are dark. 399 00:28:19,120 --> 00:28:24,240 There are groups that are only operating in different ways, but it's a good starting place. 400 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:29,560 But also mention there's another online resource and that's gardenarian.us. 401 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:34,040 This is for traditional gardenarians in the USA only. 402 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:39,600 But every one of the covens there is personally vouched for and is valid. 403 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:45,560 So if you don't find a coven in your state, there are automated contact forms available 404 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:46,700 on that website. 405 00:28:46,700 --> 00:28:52,680 So you can message other legitimate traditional gardenarians and ask them, hey, I live in 406 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:53,680 Wyoming. 407 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,160 I don't see a coven in Wyoming. 408 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:57,760 Do you know of one? 409 00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:02,880 And they will get back to you and provide you with that community connection where you 410 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:08,680 can possibly find a coven that's closer to you, even if it's not listed on the website. 411 00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:10,480 And just to mention those resources as well. 412 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:15,200 So as Hermes mentioned, there's the gardenarian.us source for these groups and they're actually 413 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:16,200 verified. 414 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:20,960 But also if you want to reach out on social media, which is probably the main way that 415 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:26,120 we reach out nowadays or people have been doing, the traditional resources include the 416 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:31,240 gardenarian initiates open forum for seekers on Facebook as well as traditional gardenarian 417 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:32,960 Wicca, a Seekers Hub. 418 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:37,800 You can find those of those on Facebook if you want to reach traditional gardenarians. 419 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:41,120 As Iris Star mentioned, there are other ways to meet groups. 420 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:43,160 You can go to festivals. 421 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,200 You can go to meetups. 422 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,080 Usually somebody who's running a meetup is going to be running a group. 423 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:49,080 That's very common. 424 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:52,000 And Wicca 101s. 425 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:53,400 Or go to pagan shops. 426 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:59,160 You can go to pagan shops, ask them if they know any local groups or like Hermes said, 427 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:00,400 check the bulletin. 428 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,540 There are some groups that are going to operate that way for a variety of reasons. 429 00:30:03,540 --> 00:30:05,440 So check everywhere. 430 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:08,880 If you're not liking what you're seeing, you know, somewhere else, or if it's not meeting 431 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:13,240 your need, you never know when you're going to make a connection with someone. 432 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:16,680 So what should you do when you find a coven? 433 00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:22,040 So there's a right way to go about this and a wrong way to go about this. 434 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:26,120 Usually the coven will provide some sort of contact information. 435 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:30,440 Sometimes out of 10, that's going to be an email, but it might also be a phone number. 436 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:37,200 How you compose your first email or your first phone call with that coven will determine 437 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:40,980 as to whether you get a response or not. 438 00:30:40,980 --> 00:30:46,940 So the number one rule is be respectful and keep it short. 439 00:30:46,940 --> 00:30:53,120 What you want to include is, hi, my name is John Smith. 440 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:57,760 I'm looking for a coven to learn Gardnery and Wicca from. 441 00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:00,840 I found your information on X. 442 00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:04,760 Can you send me more information if you're seeking students at this time? 443 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:08,600 You know, respectfully, sincerely, John. 444 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:15,180 So yeah, so to what Hermes is stating, just be respectful, be inquisitive. 445 00:31:15,180 --> 00:31:19,640 The initial contact is really just about establishing, is something even there at the end of the 446 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:21,160 line, right? 447 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,480 And can we initiate this process? 448 00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:25,880 That's the point of the first contact. 449 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:29,520 Oversharing is not necessary and you might be nervous. 450 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,680 You might say something you wouldn't normally say. 451 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:35,400 Or think that you know what they want to hear and you don't. 452 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:41,040 I think sometimes it may seem simple enough, but I think just telling them how to go about 453 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:42,560 that initial contact. 454 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:46,480 I mean, some people might think it's really easy to do that. 455 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:50,320 Yeah, when I heard you say that, I said, oh, that's a good way to go. 456 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:51,600 Yeah, that's true. 457 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:57,320 And I included that because I think people, I hate to be the curmugony get off my lawn 458 00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:05,400 guy, but people have decreased their standards as we move towards a more online age. 459 00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:13,800 And people don't know how to write emails and do messages in a way that they don't introduce 460 00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:20,440 slang or it comes off as disrespectful or they're using Netspeak and things like that. 461 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:25,880 You want to present that you're a person who has everything together and doesn't come off 462 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:28,040 as flippant. 463 00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:37,760 And I think that composing a unprofessional email certainly leads to those elements. 464 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:42,880 So after you send out an email and you receive an email back, usually the next part of the 465 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:45,920 process will be some sort of interview. 466 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:52,800 And nowadays, the interviews are conducted usually online, although my interview was 467 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:58,240 conducted in person, both the Cummins that I joined, or it might be over the phone. 468 00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:02,800 And again, it all depends on whether you can meet with the high priest and the high priestess 469 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:08,440 or whether there has to be some sort of technological intervention in that. 470 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:14,200 And as far as the interview process, some things that I would say is be honest. 471 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:20,000 You will be fact-checked and you will most likely have a social media search done of 472 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:26,240 you, at least basic, you know, Facebook, LinkedIn, just to get some more information about you 473 00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:30,120 before the high priest and high priestess meet with you. 474 00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:32,600 And it's okay to say that you don't know. 475 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:39,840 I've done many interviews and oftentimes I'll ask a question and the person clearly doesn't 476 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:44,040 know what I was asking and they'll pontificate on a random topic. 477 00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:47,240 And it's just okay for you to say that you don't know because that's what the whole training 478 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:48,520 is about. 479 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:52,480 You know, we aren't looking for specific answers. 480 00:33:52,480 --> 00:34:00,080 We're just looking for, are you open to receiving knowledge or is your brain already full and 481 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,240 it can't hold anymore? 482 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:04,320 I think we're also looking at fit, right? 483 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:07,080 Because it's not just about what the answers are. 484 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:11,520 It's kind of how a person goes about what they're saying and doing and what they're 485 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:12,520 interested in. 486 00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:16,640 You know, if I'm asking questions and you're saying, oh, I'm interested in something that 487 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:22,040 might align more with a Druid practice or a Sartre or some other thing, that's important 488 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:25,120 for me to know because this might not be the right fit for you. 489 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:28,120 And you may get questions, follow-up questions about that. 490 00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:32,960 So the interview process that we do, we tend to meet with people on Zoom first. 491 00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:36,040 We like to meet face-to-face in that part of the process. 492 00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:38,400 And we kind of suss out these details. 493 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:42,640 You know, if we feel that you're someone who might be a good fit and that you're mentally 494 00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:44,880 in a good place with where you want to go, right? 495 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:49,280 You have some idea of what you want to do, then we may say, okay, we'll come to training. 496 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:53,440 We do a rolling admission training, so you can come in at any time. 497 00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:54,480 Different groups have different things. 498 00:34:54,480 --> 00:35:00,200 Some start cohorts, some, you know, will individually train people based only on what they need. 499 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:01,960 It really depends on who you're working with. 500 00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:06,680 But we have rolling and we have the whole purpose is for people to really understand 501 00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:09,520 is Gardener and Wight are the right thing for them. 502 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:13,680 And then us to know, are you a good fit and to see that over time. 503 00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:18,080 So that's kind of the point of the interview process and then rolling into the training. 504 00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:21,440 I don't know, Iris Star, if you want to talk a little bit about, you know, the year and 505 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:26,520 day of training and that versus maybe other models that you've seen. 506 00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:35,120 Well, when we get a seeker that reaches out to us through email, we normally ask them 507 00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:40,680 for a day and time once we've, you know, kind of researched them on the internet. 508 00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:44,680 But we ask them for a day or a time that they can meet at a diner. 509 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:52,480 You know, that way we can sit for an hour, give them a meal and it's more relaxed and 510 00:35:52,480 --> 00:36:01,360 you can really get to learn what that person is about, even if it is for only an hour. 511 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:08,720 And you can find if they're, you know, open to you as well as you being open to them. 512 00:36:08,720 --> 00:36:14,180 Then we normally send them out a questionnaire to fill out. 513 00:36:14,180 --> 00:36:18,840 We have like 10 questions on there and ask them to send it back. 514 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:25,700 Apparently, the questionnaire has been around for a long time because I know that my initial 515 00:36:25,700 --> 00:36:32,560 group in the 80s had a questionnaire as well and we were asked to fill out that questionnaire. 516 00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:40,200 I happened to meet the group through a friend of mine that lived in the area and this group 517 00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:43,580 was like an hour and 15 minutes away. 518 00:36:43,580 --> 00:36:53,280 Come to find out there actually was a working coven like within like three to four minutes, 519 00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:57,900 depending on lights at that time that I could have actually joined. 520 00:36:57,900 --> 00:37:04,800 So you never know what your initial group is going to end up to be. 521 00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:08,680 You know, it's up to the gods who you get. 522 00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:14,400 So generally training is going to last traditionally for a year and a day and that's not a set 523 00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:20,260 standard sometimes if we know that the person is ready and they petition to join because 524 00:37:20,260 --> 00:37:25,240 you have to petition to join even after you've been accepted for training. 525 00:37:25,240 --> 00:37:29,620 If they petition to join, we might accept them a little bit earlier, but basically the 526 00:37:29,620 --> 00:37:37,000 year and a day process for training is put in place so that not only can we evaluate 527 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:42,920 the student, but the student can also evaluate the group and see if it's right for them. 528 00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:48,040 As been mentioned before on this podcast, every coven has their own different flavor 529 00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:54,360 and so if a coven doesn't work right for you, you can always try another one and as Iris 530 00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:59,320 Star was saying, there might be a coven that's even closer to you that you won't know about 531 00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:04,400 until you make contact with the other coven that you're training with now and they might 532 00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,200 have contacts to know if there's a closer group. 533 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:10,840 Hermes, you had mentioned earlier, you know, travel expectations and the seeker. 534 00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:13,480 So I just want to touch on this a little more. 535 00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:15,620 You will likely have to travel. 536 00:38:15,620 --> 00:38:17,600 Most people have to travel. 537 00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:22,880 If you're lucky, that'll be a 30 minute or a 15 minute, which is not really travel, but 538 00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:26,280 if you're not as lucky, you're probably looking at at least an hour. 539 00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:30,000 Some people have traveled, you know, multiple hours to get where they need to go. 540 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:34,080 It's usually once a month, especially once you're initiated once or twice a month. 541 00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:37,000 That is part of the dedication to training. 542 00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:41,760 When covens were much thinner on the ground, probably I would say that in the 70s and 80s 543 00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:45,540 and although Iris Star, you know, you correct me, some people would take plane rides. 544 00:38:45,540 --> 00:38:47,960 Some people would drive hours to get where they needed to go. 545 00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:53,240 So we're lucky in the sense that there are more covens than there used to be available 546 00:38:53,240 --> 00:38:58,840 for training, but there are pockets of the country where that's not the case and so that 547 00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:02,560 decision still needs to be made if this is what you want. 548 00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:06,040 I always go back to fit, you know, if you, if this is really what somebody wants, then 549 00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:07,320 the travel is worth it. 550 00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:09,080 So it's just something to keep in mind. 551 00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:12,320 Yeah, I would agree. 552 00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:16,880 As Eowyn said, in the 70s and 80s, it was not uncommon to hear of people making three 553 00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:21,680 to six hour drives and even plane rides to seek a gardenerium coven. 554 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:24,480 What it comes down to is what do you want? 555 00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:30,120 I knew from the onset when I was pagan that I wanted to be gardenerian, full stop. 556 00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:38,280 And so I actually passed up at least two other covens and they offered me initiation too. 557 00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:43,600 I was like, no, I want a gardenerian coven. 558 00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:48,800 And so in that I knew that I'd have to travel and that was a sacrifice that I was willing 559 00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:53,000 to make because I wanted to be a member of that tradition. 560 00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:57,920 If you want to be a member of that tradition, you know, you will find a way to make that 561 00:39:57,920 --> 00:39:58,920 happen. 562 00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:04,720 Well, we would agree that the seeker needs to be able to get themselves there and on 563 00:40:04,720 --> 00:40:14,480 time otherwise if the seeker can't make it because we do realize that family things come 564 00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:22,960 up, you know, some of these seekers have children or they have elderly moms and dads where things 565 00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:24,140 will come up. 566 00:40:24,140 --> 00:40:32,080 So we understand when things happen in a person's day to day life, but they would want to send 567 00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:35,860 us out a text as soon as they know it. 568 00:40:35,860 --> 00:40:39,760 So if they know that they can't show up, they should send us a text. 569 00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:45,200 Now this could cause a delay in their training. 570 00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:49,260 They may need to go longer than a year and a day. 571 00:40:49,260 --> 00:40:56,600 So it's imperative for them to get there as soon as, you know, as often as they can in 572 00:40:56,600 --> 00:41:02,280 order to not extend their training process. 573 00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:05,720 And I think that this kind of goes into like dedication to practice, right? 574 00:41:05,720 --> 00:41:07,400 Because you said people need to be there on time. 575 00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:09,780 They need to make it a priority. 576 00:41:09,780 --> 00:41:14,020 The year in a day shows us whether or not you're serious about seeking because when 577 00:41:14,020 --> 00:41:17,860 you become an initiate, there's a whole other level of work you have to do. 578 00:41:17,860 --> 00:41:22,520 And while that can be paced out based on the seekers need, most of the time with the secret 579 00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:27,520 training, we really want to see that you have the capacity to sustain your interest in this 580 00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:29,040 and that you're going to dedicate time. 581 00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:33,600 Because remember, the people that are training you, at least in Gardenerica, at least in 582 00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:36,720 traditional Gardenerica, we aren't charging for that training. 583 00:41:36,720 --> 00:41:37,960 We will never do that. 584 00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:40,800 And we are taking significant amounts of our time to do this for you. 585 00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:42,160 It is a calling for us. 586 00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:46,200 It is work for us that we do that the gods call us to do. 587 00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:50,120 But be mindful of that because we're asking you for something valuable. 588 00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:51,880 We're asking you for your time. 589 00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:53,360 And we're giving you our time. 590 00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:56,400 Both are much more valuable than money or other things like that. 591 00:41:56,400 --> 00:42:01,440 So be mindful of that and show your dedication if you want to be initiated. 592 00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:04,040 It's really, really important to do that. 593 00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:08,880 And I would also say when you show up, show up, show up. 594 00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:11,260 Be ready to learn. 595 00:42:11,260 --> 00:42:17,020 So real briefly, if we're talking about what is the point of training, for most groups 596 00:42:17,020 --> 00:42:18,480 it's going to be initiation. 597 00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:20,360 For most seekers, it's initiation. 598 00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:26,840 So just to note, when you're a seeker, we will typically not ask you to initiate. 599 00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:29,160 That's really one of the tenets of our tradition. 600 00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:30,160 We don't ask you. 601 00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:31,760 We don't cross the lines. 602 00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:34,240 You have to ask us for initiation. 603 00:42:34,240 --> 00:42:37,480 Usually that will occur closer to the end of the training. 604 00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:41,680 If someone is more advanced, we might say to them, we feel you've met the parameters 605 00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:44,680 and we might bring up, do you want to ask for initiation? 606 00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:47,160 You can do that at any time going forward. 607 00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:49,080 So we might give you that prompt. 608 00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:52,440 However, it is up to you to make that decision. 609 00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:54,360 That might be to the year and a day fully. 610 00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:55,480 It could be before that. 611 00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:56,520 It could be after that. 612 00:42:56,520 --> 00:43:00,140 You could be asked if you're not showing what we need to see. 613 00:43:00,140 --> 00:43:04,000 You could be asked to stay on if you're training for longer. 614 00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:06,040 Now I am, of course, speaking of an American model. 615 00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:09,160 And I don't want to speak for all Gardinerians in that respect. 616 00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:13,720 But that is something just to be aware of when it comes to initiation. 617 00:43:13,720 --> 00:43:23,960 I would have to agree with that because funny story, when I was seeking initiation, I thought 618 00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:34,560 that it would be up to the coven to let me know that they specifically chose me. 619 00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:42,840 Like I thought that I was waiting for them to choose me and say, yes, you're the type 620 00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:44,600 of person that we want. 621 00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:48,120 You know, we want you like Uncle Sam, I guess. 622 00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:57,840 And so while I'm waiting for them to ask me, of course, they're waiting for me to ask them. 623 00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:00,960 And they aren't back then. 624 00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:03,520 They didn't tell you what you had to do. 625 00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:09,080 Like Erwin, I hear you saying that sometimes you kind of prompt them what they need to 626 00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:10,080 do. 627 00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:15,640 I think that that's a really good thing to do because some people have learned throughout 628 00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:22,640 their lives not to ask these questions, that it's something that they will let you know 629 00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:24,760 if you're deserving. 630 00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:25,760 And so, yeah. 631 00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:26,760 Yeah. 632 00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:31,000 And that's just a stylistic choice because I am very like, what's next? 633 00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:35,480 What I need to do next in everything because my life is crazy. 634 00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:39,120 So a lot of times with the speakers, I'll try to keep them on a pace. 635 00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:41,960 But at the end of the day, they make that decision. 636 00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:43,760 And I think that's really critical. 637 00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:45,080 And it's different from other places. 638 00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:50,240 You're going to find other religions may pressure you into giving money, giving time, giving 639 00:44:50,240 --> 00:44:52,840 attention, becoming this, becoming that. 640 00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:55,720 Gardnery, Wicca, we do not do that. 641 00:44:55,720 --> 00:44:57,040 And there's a lot of reasons for that. 642 00:44:57,040 --> 00:44:59,200 And one of them I would say is the responsibility. 643 00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:01,720 We talked about, you know, you're going to be a priest or priestess. 644 00:45:01,720 --> 00:45:05,360 Nobody should be taking that on lightly ever. 645 00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:09,920 You know, so this is just one step and one part of that. 646 00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:13,520 Thank you for listening to this episode of the TradGuard Wicca podcast. 647 00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:17,600 Please join us next time for part two of this episode, The Seeker Experience and Finding 648 00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:18,600 a Group. 649 00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:41,560 Thank you.