WEBVTT 00:00:07.280 --> 00:00:10.670 Ricardo Belmar: Welcome to our new Retail Razor show, Blade to Greatness, 00:00:11.180 --> 00:00:14.840 our new standalone Retail Razor show, where we hear from a retail industry 00:00:14.840 --> 00:00:19.180 leader who shares their sharp insights and cuts of wisdom on how to excel in 00:00:19.180 --> 00:00:21.040 this dynamic and competitive field. 00:00:21.340 --> 00:00:25.520 In this series, we learn about the essential must have skills and qualities 00:00:25.520 --> 00:00:30.005 that every retail executive needs to lead their teams and their business to success. 00:00:30.318 --> 00:00:33.948 Casey Golden: Whether we're talking about HQ or stores, we'll uncover valuable 00:00:33.948 --> 00:00:39.150 tips and advice that every retail leader can apply to their own retail career 00:00:39.150 --> 00:00:41.600 path, raising your Blade to Greatness. 00:00:42.155 --> 00:00:43.635 Ricardo Belmar: I'm your host, Ricardo Belmar. 00:00:44.085 --> 00:00:45.775 Casey Golden: And I'm your co host Casey Golden. 00:00:47.007 --> 00:00:50.967 Today we'll speak with Ron Thurston, co-founder of Ossy bestselling, 00:00:50.967 --> 00:00:55.827 author of Retail Pride, podcast host, speaker, advisor, and board member. 00:00:56.337 --> 00:01:00.687 Ron leverages his extensive experience leading retail operations for America's 00:01:00.692 --> 00:01:04.514 most prominent brands, to bring attention to the issues facing frontline 00:01:04.519 --> 00:01:06.584 workers and retail leaders today. 00:01:07.034 --> 00:01:12.718 After releasing his book Retail Pride, and the Retail in America Tour and 00:01:12.723 --> 00:01:17.878 Podcast, Ron has co-founded Ossy to disrupt how the retail industry hires, 00:01:17.878 --> 00:01:23.638 engages and connects retail workers with retail brands and technology partners. 00:01:23.949 --> 00:01:26.829 Ricardo Belmar: Today he's here to talk to us about an incredibly important 00:01:26.829 --> 00:01:31.149 aspect of change and culture that every retail leader needs to foster. 00:01:31.269 --> 00:01:34.749 Implementing a career development culture as the first step to change 00:01:34.749 --> 00:01:36.489 your mindset and make change. 00:01:36.939 --> 00:01:39.159 Let's listen to what Ron has to share with us. 00:01:39.789 --> 00:01:40.389 Casey Golden: Welcome, Ron. 00:01:41.219 --> 00:01:41.569 Ron Thurston: Great. 00:01:41.729 --> 00:01:42.959 Thank you so much Casey. 00:01:42.959 --> 00:01:47.489 I love a conversation about how to retain and have career 00:01:47.489 --> 00:01:49.649 development within retail because. 00:01:50.759 --> 00:01:58.379 It is by far the number one thing I hear and also shows up in surveys around 00:01:58.679 --> 00:02:04.919 why I stay in retail or why I don't stay in retail, is about mentorship 00:02:04.919 --> 00:02:06.869 and career development conversations. 00:02:07.154 --> 00:02:08.354 There's no exception to that. 00:02:08.354 --> 00:02:10.064 It's not compensation. 00:02:10.514 --> 00:02:15.804 Um, certainly a lot of conversation about flexibility and work in part-time, but 00:02:15.804 --> 00:02:22.014 the majority of anyone who's worked in brick and mortar retail, who has chosen 00:02:22.014 --> 00:02:24.354 to stay in this role because they love it. 00:02:24.909 --> 00:02:30.429 because we're having important career trajectory conversations, which may 00:02:30.429 --> 00:02:32.709 or may not be within the organization. 00:02:32.949 --> 00:02:37.299 They may be ones that take you to a different company, but someone has 00:02:37.299 --> 00:02:39.729 really guided you in that journey. 00:02:39.729 --> 00:02:43.600 And I wanted to just spend a couple of moments because I was recently doing 00:02:44.199 --> 00:02:49.629 a webinar with Sucharita Kodali from Forrester and they just released some 00:02:49.629 --> 00:02:52.059 statistics that I think are fascinating. 00:02:52.059 --> 00:02:54.379 So if you miss webinar I wanted to share. 00:02:54.609 --> 00:03:01.139 Part of turnover is that retail does have higher turnover than other industries. 00:03:01.198 --> 00:03:06.341 so in April of 2022, a little more than a year ago, the average turnover in 00:03:06.341 --> 00:03:09.796 all trades is three percent per month. 00:03:09.796 --> 00:03:13.876 So it's a quit rates are the total number of quits during the entire 00:03:13.876 --> 00:03:16.036 month as a percentage of employees. 00:03:16.036 --> 00:03:21.226 So on average, in every industry in April, 2022, 3% of the 00:03:21.226 --> 00:03:22.846 workforce turned over in a month. 00:03:22.846 --> 00:03:28.601 In retail, it was 4.4% of the total workforce and here we, and today 00:03:28.601 --> 00:03:30.911 as we sit, both have gone down. 00:03:31.001 --> 00:03:36.311 So April in 2023, it's 2.5% in all industries. 00:03:36.521 --> 00:03:41.181 And in retail it's gone down a full percentage point to 3.5 Which is 00:03:41.181 --> 00:03:45.401 great news because there was a lot of conversation about not being able to hire 00:03:45.461 --> 00:03:47.471 and therefore have high turnover rates. 00:03:48.161 --> 00:03:52.001 So good news, it's going down, but there are still real pain points. 00:03:52.271 --> 00:03:55.601 One around inconsistent and unpredictable scheduling. 00:03:56.301 --> 00:04:00.651 around benefits, like limited employer sponsored benefits, little or no 00:04:00.656 --> 00:04:03.111 career advancement and understaffing. 00:04:03.771 --> 00:04:10.041 And the reason, you know, the understaffing becomes such an important 00:04:10.041 --> 00:04:16.339 point in retention because you said in April, 2022, 63% of workers say that 00:04:16.339 --> 00:04:22.429 staff shortages are contributing to their burnout, and led to lost work days and 00:04:22.434 --> 00:04:26.629 to depression and anxiety and sick days. 00:04:27.019 --> 00:04:29.539 All of this is because of staff shortages. 00:04:29.869 --> 00:04:30.649 So as. 00:04:32.164 --> 00:04:33.694 Quit rates have gone down. 00:04:33.694 --> 00:04:37.934 There's still a staff shortage problem that there's certainly 00:04:37.964 --> 00:04:40.094 very high cost to what that means. 00:04:40.514 --> 00:04:48.199 Uh, this kind of idea of how of culture and brand and how you communicate that 00:04:48.199 --> 00:04:53.179 in conjunction with career development is a critical component to retention. 00:04:53.599 --> 00:04:59.239 So it's the good news again, just to summarize, quit rates going down. 00:05:00.049 --> 00:05:05.259 Yet we still have significant amount of open and we have a significant amount 00:05:05.319 --> 00:05:11.169 of people who are making decisions about staying in retail based on 00:05:11.174 --> 00:05:16.239 career conversations that are may or may not be happening today, and that's 00:05:16.239 --> 00:05:20.994 part of, that's part of Ossy is also let's assess where you are in your 00:05:20.994 --> 00:05:26.094 career and let's suggest some other opportunities for career advancement 00:05:26.354 --> 00:05:28.014 based on your current skill set 00:05:28.604 --> 00:05:31.249 Ricardo Belmar: So Ron, one of the things that has always struck me in 00:05:31.254 --> 00:05:35.269 this topic is that in, in the past we've always heard a lot of retailers 00:05:35.509 --> 00:05:39.084 using phrases like, you know, our store teams, they're the frontline that 00:05:39.084 --> 00:05:41.734 represents our brand to the consumer. 00:05:42.094 --> 00:05:45.364 And when you hear that, you would always think, well then they must really highly 00:05:45.364 --> 00:05:47.644 value those employees and our goal. 00:05:47.734 --> 00:05:51.724 And because of that, if they really are the face of the brand to that customer, 00:05:51.724 --> 00:05:56.094 then surely you're doing everything you can to develop their skills, their not 00:05:56.099 --> 00:06:00.534 just sales skills, but other operational skills to make them better, serve those 00:06:00.534 --> 00:06:04.614 customers and offer them a career path so that they stay with you in that brand. 00:06:04.614 --> 00:06:07.644 But I think historically what we all know is that. 00:06:07.904 --> 00:06:11.924 Even though we heard retailers say that it didn't really hold true, right? 00:06:11.924 --> 00:06:14.584 It wasn't really, you didn't see that at the end. 00:06:14.584 --> 00:06:18.274 And when you talk to those store teams, most store teams didn't feel like that. 00:06:18.334 --> 00:06:19.024 What was coming? 00:06:19.074 --> 00:06:20.754 I'd like to say that it's gotten better. 00:06:21.244 --> 00:06:24.494 And I think just hearing you talk about it, it's pretty clear, what some of 00:06:24.494 --> 00:06:28.334 the things that need to happen that's a mindset that does need to change and 00:06:28.334 --> 00:06:30.884 to become more of a practical reality. 00:06:30.884 --> 00:06:34.517 I mean, do, do you believe that's definitely where we're trending. 00:06:34.517 --> 00:06:37.997 And do you think that, , maybe what we saw during the pandemic and what happened 00:06:38.147 --> 00:06:42.047 with stores, that's been that final push that has gotten retailers at the 00:06:42.052 --> 00:06:43.847 executive level to move in this direction? 00:06:44.602 --> 00:06:48.172 Ron Thurston: I, you know, I wish Ricardo, I could say consistently, yes. 00:06:48.232 --> 00:06:50.982 I think there there are great demonstrations where that has been 00:06:50.982 --> 00:06:53.202 true, and there are things that I. 00:06:53.394 --> 00:06:57.774 we have never learned some of the same bad habits exist, and so I, 00:06:57.834 --> 00:07:02.914 I do um, have, you opportunity to speak to a lot of candidates that 00:07:02.914 --> 00:07:08.584 are either currently in job search or thinking about making a change. 00:07:08.884 --> 00:07:11.694 And so much of it is related to exactly what you say. 00:07:12.244 --> 00:07:17.584 And that the frontline teams and every retail brand have so many of 00:07:17.584 --> 00:07:21.784 the answers that you wanna learn about your customer, about the product, 00:07:21.874 --> 00:07:26.044 about why they choose to shop with you, why they convert, why they don't. 00:07:27.094 --> 00:07:32.494 People who engage with a live customer and that, and converts or doesn't, 00:07:32.914 --> 00:07:38.129 understands exactly why, because you've had really thorough conversations and 00:07:38.129 --> 00:07:43.309 it's data you will never be able to capture on a website, you never know why. 00:07:43.729 --> 00:07:46.649 You know, 90 plus percent of the people on your site never convert. 00:07:46.649 --> 00:07:47.639 You don't know why. 00:07:48.089 --> 00:07:50.069 Sometimes you'll get a popup survey. 00:07:50.399 --> 00:07:52.619 I'm sure the response rates on that are pretty low. 00:07:53.122 --> 00:07:57.319 But in a store, where I think some of this falls down is if, someone 00:07:57.319 --> 00:08:02.269 would just ask me, I would tell you exactly what needs to change. 00:08:02.449 --> 00:08:06.254 and, And creating forums where I shouldn't say what needs to change, 00:08:06.254 --> 00:08:11.384 what, where we could improve or where product can be better, or um, 00:08:11.384 --> 00:08:13.854 inventory levels or store design. 00:08:13.854 --> 00:08:17.784 All of this can actually be captured by people who are standing in 00:08:17.784 --> 00:08:18.954 front of their customer every day. 00:08:19.524 --> 00:08:24.744 And so creating forum to do that, whether it's store visits, it's coffee talks, 00:08:25.404 --> 00:08:31.639 town halls, whatever works for you, then I think I retention and that conversation 00:08:31.639 --> 00:08:33.842 are so inextricably linked, linked. 00:08:34.672 --> 00:08:38.452 Just last weekend I was in Sawgrass Malls here in Florida. 00:08:38.782 --> 00:08:40.202 Went into a store. 00:08:40.929 --> 00:08:45.459 into someone who used to work for me and the first thing that he said was, I 00:08:45.459 --> 00:08:49.599 remember when you visited the store and you sat down with us and like had coffee 00:08:49.604 --> 00:08:53.619 in the morning before we opened, and you asked us all what we loved about working 00:08:53.619 --> 00:08:57.879 here, what we didn't, what we could do better as a company, how we could improve. 00:08:58.209 --> 00:08:59.319 Let's talk about product. 00:08:59.324 --> 00:09:01.179 Tell me what your customer's saying today. 00:09:01.599 --> 00:09:07.349 For me, it was an hour of time spent and, you know, $10 worth of Starbucks and this 00:09:07.349 --> 00:09:10.509 person years later remembers that meeting. 00:09:10.799 --> 00:09:10.909 Ricardo Belmar: Hmm. 00:09:11.249 --> 00:09:11.389 Hmm 00:09:11.389 --> 00:09:11.499 Hmm, 00:09:11.499 --> 00:09:11.699 wow! 00:09:12.109 --> 00:09:17.234 Ron Thurston: You can't underestimate the power of what that means to field teams. 00:09:17.619 --> 00:09:21.409 To just sit and listen, and act and respond. 00:09:21.914 --> 00:09:25.154 It's the greatest thing you can do to retain your teams. 00:09:25.576 --> 00:09:28.876 Casey Golden: Yeah, I think you really set an example with your 00:09:28.876 --> 00:09:31.026 Retail in America tour for. 00:09:31.607 --> 00:09:36.677 everyone to get back into the stores even when it was the least convenient. 00:09:36.917 --> 00:09:44.177 You really showed a way of doing this because if I worked on a retail floor and 00:09:44.177 --> 00:09:50.324 I was looking for a job change, you'd be my number one dream phone call, right? 00:09:50.714 --> 00:09:52.544 I would already be following you on LinkedIn. 00:09:52.594 --> 00:09:57.349 You would already be like, the ideal, I've got to get a meeting with Ron. 00:09:57.679 --> 00:09:59.179 I'm looking for a career change. 00:09:59.179 --> 00:10:03.914 So I think that you've become this great ambassador and I think that 00:10:03.944 --> 00:10:08.821 that bridge, it's hard for other people to say how to grow, like how 00:10:08.821 --> 00:10:11.511 to develop these types of cultures. 00:10:12.091 --> 00:10:15.056 And I just feel like it's so much of your d n a that you offer, that 00:10:15.056 --> 00:10:16.586 you're just like a natural resource. 00:10:16.586 --> 00:10:21.776 So I'm so grateful that you, join all these conversations and these 00:10:21.781 --> 00:10:25.361 podcasts to really open that up to say there is a resource. 00:10:25.361 --> 00:10:29.731 There is a way because I think on both sides, they both wanna come to you. 00:10:30.836 --> 00:10:31.676 Ron Thurston: Thank you, Casey. 00:10:31.676 --> 00:10:32.576 That's really kind. 00:10:32.846 --> 00:10:38.041 I also, I would say it's, easier to do than you think it is. 00:10:38.631 --> 00:10:44.331 And that engagement is nothing more than honest and thoughtful 00:10:44.331 --> 00:10:46.821 and empathetic conversation. 00:10:47.331 --> 00:10:48.846 And We all know how to do that. 00:10:49.296 --> 00:10:53.466 And we all, but just doing it is the first step. 00:10:53.886 --> 00:10:57.036 And you know how whatever that needs to look like. 00:10:57.036 --> 00:11:00.606 And I just think sometimes we're afraid to take that first step 00:11:00.906 --> 00:11:04.896 because you're also afraid of maybe what you're going to hear sometimes. 00:11:04.896 --> 00:11:08.076 It's like you coach the team before the C E O arrives and he 00:11:08.076 --> 00:11:10.656 said, well, make sure you don't talk about this and don't do that. 00:11:11.136 --> 00:11:14.766 And I would come from the place of, tell me the worst thing. 00:11:14.766 --> 00:11:16.356 What do you hate about working here? 00:11:16.356 --> 00:11:16.836 Like, tell me. 00:11:17.436 --> 00:11:20.046 And in a very like thoughtful and honest way, because they 00:11:20.046 --> 00:11:21.246 want you to tell me the truth. 00:11:21.726 --> 00:11:25.146 So sometimes they think we're afraid to ask the questions 00:11:25.446 --> 00:11:28.776 because we're afraid of what we're gonna hear, and we can't improve. 00:11:28.776 --> 00:11:31.536 If we don't know, we can't change retention. 00:11:32.012 --> 00:11:34.862 Core of this conversation is retaining great people. 00:11:35.072 --> 00:11:39.272 You can't retain them if you don't provide the opportunity to tell 00:11:39.272 --> 00:11:41.552 the truth and then change it. 00:11:42.012 --> 00:11:45.092 And That for me is the best thing you could do is to say, you know what? 00:11:45.092 --> 00:11:47.252 I'm so glad we had that meeting. 00:11:47.252 --> 00:11:48.662 I didn't actually know that. 00:11:49.322 --> 00:11:53.252 And therefore, this is what we're going to do differently at our company today. 00:11:53.642 --> 00:11:57.672 Maybe award that person, you know, next company town hall, say, well, great. 00:11:57.672 --> 00:12:01.172 The best idea for the year came from Casey when I visited the store. 00:12:01.177 --> 00:12:04.532 Like there, there are ways to create culture that is about 00:12:04.532 --> 00:12:10.248 feedback and about recognition that is so powerful yet so easy 00:12:10.927 --> 00:12:14.527 Ricardo Belmar: Yeah, I think that is a great way to summarize what those 00:12:14.527 --> 00:12:18.697 specific key traits are that every retail leader should take away from this 00:12:18.697 --> 00:12:22.207 conversation, and how to make that culture better and how to really work towards 00:12:22.212 --> 00:12:26.307 retaining those important store teams that, that you have today and making 00:12:26.307 --> 00:12:29.367 it more enticing for the new ones with the new folks that you have coming in. 00:12:30.117 --> 00:12:32.547 So, Ron, thank you so much for sharing these thoughts and these 00:12:32.547 --> 00:12:34.197 and words of wisdom with us today. 00:12:34.404 --> 00:12:35.524 Ron Thurston: Thank you Ricardo and Casey. 00:12:35.529 --> 00:12:36.154 It's a pleasure. 00:12:37.182 --> 00:12:39.602 Casey Golden: if you've enjoyed our show, please consider giving 00:12:39.602 --> 00:12:43.552 us a five star rating and review on Apple podcasts and Goodpods. 00:12:44.062 --> 00:12:48.422 Remember to smash that subscribe button in your favorite podcast player and tune 00:12:48.422 --> 00:12:50.552 in on YouTube, so you don't miss a minute. 00:12:51.172 --> 00:12:52.942 I'm your cohost, Casey Golden. 00:12:53.542 --> 00:12:55.972 Ricardo Belmar: Please share your feedback with us on Twitter at Casey 00:12:55.972 --> 00:13:00.062 C Golden, Ricardo underscore Belmar, and at RetailRazor, or find us on 00:13:00.072 --> 00:13:01.522 LinkedIn, Threads, and Instagram. 00:13:01.957 --> 00:13:05.917 For the best highlights from each episode, shipped straight to your inbox, subscribe 00:13:05.917 --> 00:13:09.337 to our Substack newsletter for full episode transcripts and bonus content. 00:13:09.657 --> 00:13:10.977 I'm your host, Ricardo Belmar. 00:13:11.682 --> 00:13:12.592 Casey Golden: Thanks for joining us. 00:13:13.257 --> 00:13:15.027 Ricardo Belmar: Until next time, keep cutting through 00:13:15.027 --> 00:13:16.287 the clutter and stay sharp. 00:13:16.377 --> 00:13:18.717 This is the Retail Razor Blade to Greatness.