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Sometimes it takes a rocket scientist with Dr. Pamela Nenges.

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Hi, this is Dr. Pamela Nenges with Sometimes It Takes a Rocket Scientist and Dr. Bart Bartholomew

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is joining us today for part two.

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Enjoy.

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One of the things I mentioned to you earlier, and this is a concern I have, and I assume

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that a lot of people do, that our key high-level government agencies seem to be losing their

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cultural foundations in terms of their structure and leadership.

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I think this is a significant, I'm not going to say threat, I'm going to say challenge

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to the way we do things in the U.S.

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I would like to see more emphasis on knowledge management and respect for the history and

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the foundations for what the agencies have done and what they need to do.

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Absolutely.

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And knowledge management, I'm glad you brought up that term.

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At my age, by the way, this is joking, okay, people come to me for wisdom.

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Whenever you get white here, you've been around a long time, you haven't been shot yet, or

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something, they go, hey, tell me about the old, like you are, tell me about the old days,

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what did you guys do?

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Knowledge management is absolutely a form of wisdom, okay?

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And it's no longer hard to do.

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I mean, my gosh, look at what we got.

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And the other day, I simulated using CHAT GPT, a simple AI system, okay, a dialogue

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between 10 people that we crafted, created, okay?

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And these were like, could be you, I interviewed these people, I talked about their personal

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characteristics, their lives, their history, and their technology.

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And then we had a CHAT GPT session on a particular subject, okay?

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Now the subject has to be pretty well defined, otherwise, you know, within one hour, we had

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another session, which built on the first session, and we were coming up with phenomenal

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answers.

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And we never involved the human being in the entire thing.

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Now if we involve real human beings, let's say I put you in CHAT GPT, you go find everything

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about you, you know, including the speeches you gave in your podcasts, they not only simulate

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your knowledge, they simulate your behavior too, like, oh, she's a pushy gal, or you know,

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she's a quiet gal, or whatever.

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They'll be able to do that without bothering too many people.

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And that really is knowledge management to some extent, that's based on the past, but

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we can use it to look at where do you go?

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You know, one question we asked is, what do you think the most crucial technology developments

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are needed to do, we were talking about, and I hate this term, the global power conflict,

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this is our new term, GPC, I think, global powers conflict.

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I hate the word conflict, because I truly would rather see the global powers collaboration.

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Now that's a hard thing to get, China, Russia, India, United States, you know, how do you

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get them to collaborate?

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But we're using CHAT GPT and AI to simulate sessions between leaders in those countries,

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to see where the problems are, see where it breaks down, you know, see where China walks

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away from the table and stuff like that.

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Now it's not real, but it's a simulation, you know, and you used AI before anybody,

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and now we're using it, you know, with the capability.

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Well, there were other people using AI.

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Well, not much.

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Harvey and Drexler and Drexler.

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Oh, yeah, well, of course.

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Yeah.

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But I had a different approach.

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And it's interesting, there's a guy at MIT now calling it liquid neurons.

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And of course, if you look back and looked at my work, you go, oh, she was kind of doing

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that 25 years ago.

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You were, you were, you were ahead of the curve, for sure.

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Yeah.

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Now, the other part of this is that you're talking about, you know, global stuff.

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Number one, you're talking about creating basically a digital dossier on how people

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function.

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So we're looking and this is an important thing that people don't understand is AI is

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being used to study respondent behavior.

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In other words, how they respond to things.

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Exactly.

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And that's a concern for me, because where it's highly productive for us to say, we're

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going to look at a concept in battle management for dealing with world powers.

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Yeah.

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But also, there are some human rights issues.

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Yeah, sure.

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Yeah.

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And that's, that's, that's, I think, a concern.

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But from a bigger concern is we need to find a way to get, what's the term, world leaders

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to behave like adults again.

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Exactly.

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Yes.

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They're like little kids in the playground, fighting each other.

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You know, I'll nuke you if you, if you're not happy with me, you know, that is, frankly,

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Pam, I'm worried.

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Now I'm old and maybe it's the time to get worried before you, you know, you go away.

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But I don't like what I see.

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I see more division in this country, more division in the world, more and more rogues.

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And that scares the living daylight out of me.

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You know, Korea, even Iran, you know, I mean, I, I, I don't, I don't know how bad they are,

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but it worries me.

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And a lot of these guys have a nuclear program.

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Oh, yeah.

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Everybody does.

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But you have to understand North Korea has a nuclear program because Russia has been

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helping them.

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Oh, I know.

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I know.

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Yeah.

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But so we have issues of proliferation.

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We have issues with people like Vladimir Putin, who are using nuclear menacing as a tool,

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which I find I just.

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Absolutely.

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And we, but we don't seem to have the ability to respond to this kind of behavior.

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What I find really extraordinary that we don't have people standing up in the West going,

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you just cut it out.

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We're not going to do this.

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Right, right.

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Exactly.

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No, I mean, it seems so logical in our personal lives.

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If we had a family that was dysfunctional or, you know, or just friends or whatever, we

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do that, right?

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We'd say, wait a minute here.

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This is not where to go.

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You know, we got to start.

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What do we have in common?

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What, you know, what is it?

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Now of course, in common is survival, right?

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Because on the nuclear issue, I don't know if you read it.

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It's called nuclear war.

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I just came out.

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I don't know if you can see it, but the name of the book is nuclear war.

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I just bought it.

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And in the first chapter, which is about five pages long, the world goes away because of

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one errant hydrogen bomb hit in the Pentagon.

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Okay.

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Errant being, you know, some nut, let it off.

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The world goes away and about, well, it doesn't go away, but you know, it collapses very,

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very quickly.

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So the nucleus threat is terrifying to me because there are some crazy people that may

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have access to one.

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All it takes is one, you know?

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Well, we have a proliferation issue right now and largely is due to the lack of leadership

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in the Western world and our ability to collaborate with other partners.

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And obviously the Middle East is a significant issue.

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Absolutely.

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And Iran has every intention of acquiring a nuclear warhead.

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And we make a mistake of not making them friends, which we should have done 20 years ago.

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Absolutely.

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Because they're an educated, competent, highly sophisticated society.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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And now, and now, which is God smacking to me, they're now friends with Saudi Arabia,

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who had been their arch enemy for 25 years.

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And the United States fought a surrogate war against their people in Saudi Arabia.

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I mean, to me, it's just stunning that we don't seem to have people.

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It's like Washington is half asleep.

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Yeah.

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And I don't know how we fix that.

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We need to figure out.

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I was just going to say, I was going to say the opposite of that.

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I really do credit Ronald Reagan for saying, look, we don't want a nuclear war with the

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Soviet unions.

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What can we do to prevent that?

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And of course, some of it was strength, but some of it was compromise to some extent.

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You know, yeah, the NASC program was part of Star Wars.

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And you know, he wanted to show, you know, we could do it.

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But on the other hand, it was like, you know, the olive branch and the weapon, you know,

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he was offering Gorbachev an olive branch too.

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Carrot is thick.

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Carrot is thick, yeah.

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So I'm worried too, Carrot.

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You got more years to live than me, but I'm worried too.

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Well, here's what I want to say very quickly, because you don't hear about this in like

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CNN.

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This Strategic Defense Initiative, Star Wars, trained a whole generation of scientists and

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engineers.

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Yeah.

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It basically funded the infrastructures we currently have.

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Yeah.

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And my generation benefited tremendously from it.

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Now we don't see that with the millennials and the Z's.

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We don't see these great programs.

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We don't see these great efforts.

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We have people from Wall Street to IBM deciding what technology is in this country, and we

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can't do that.

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We have to have leadership that recognizes the importance of technology in the structure

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of our economy, our security, our defense, and what benefits our society.

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And the other part of this, I think, and I just want to say, amen to that.

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Damn.

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I completely agree with what you said.

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And the other part of this is that I'm a weirdo aerospace engineer because I'm actually an

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engineering physicist.

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And I've been to nuclear weapons school.

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I was trained by Dr. William Highland Chambers as well as you.

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He founded the Nuclear Emergency Search Team.

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I worked in the intelligence community.

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And most Americans today, including some listening to this now, don't realize the Department

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of Energy, they're not the guys who put the stars on your refrigerators.

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They're a defense and intelligence agency.

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Yes, yes, right.

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And apparently someone needs to tell Congress.

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Yeah.

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You know, we're so, I think part of that is a symptom of the bigger issue of how divided

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we are.

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You know, the reason they're asleep, I do believe that part of the reason that they're

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asleep is they spend so much time fighting each other that very little collaboration

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is there.

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Now, I know there are good people in Congress.

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I know some people that are wonderful people.

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But then when you get to the top of the pile and you get one party just screaming, the

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other guys are a bunch of nuts and vice versa, it's kind of hard to get anything done.

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It would be like a marriage that is completely dysfunctional.

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And usually that ends up in divorce.

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But in America, we can't afford a divorce.

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You know, we have to what I don't know what it's going to take.

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I really don't.

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And here we get this upcoming election.

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I don't want to get into that.

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But you know, and there's no difference from what happened four years ago or eight years

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ago.

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We haven't learned a lesson yet.

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We're still mad at each other, you know?

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Well, I'm concerned when they're saying, oh, it's the end of democracy.

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It's the end of the country.

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No, it's not.

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Yeah, and the United States is not going to come to an end because we got another president

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who may or may not be terribly competent.

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It's not the issue.

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We are a country that is fairly substantial internationally still.

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We're still one of the probably two superpowers on the planet.

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The United States is not going to come to an end.

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We've got to stop this pre adolescent crap.

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Yeah, it is.

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It's childish.

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It's absolutely childish.

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Yeah, or very old age.

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It's like childish behavior with old people, you know, or something like that.

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Join us next time on Sometimes It Takes a Rocket Scientist.

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For part three of Dr. Pamela Mendes' interview with Dr. Bart Bartholay.