1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,000 Hi everyone. 2 00:00:01,200 --> 00:00:02,940 Welcome to the pool party today. 3 00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:06,880 I have my friend Jane, who is going to be anonymous for the 4 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:08,620 purpose of this episode. 5 00:00:08,780 --> 00:00:11,020 I'm so happy and excited to have Jane here. 6 00:00:11,020 --> 00:00:16,080 So Jane, I would love for you to introduce yourself and say hello to the pool party. 7 00:00:16,180 --> 00:00:16,980 Hi everyone. 8 00:00:17,060 --> 00:00:17,180 Yeah. 9 00:00:17,180 --> 00:00:19,380 I've been friends with Jules for a long time. 10 00:00:19,380 --> 00:00:23,340 This is fun to be chatting to you in this format. 11 00:00:23,340 --> 00:00:30,540 And right now I'm about four years into a doctoral program in clinical psychology and 12 00:00:30,540 --> 00:00:38,540 also really interested in the tech psychology overlap and yeah, all things mental health. 13 00:00:38,540 --> 00:00:39,540 So that's neat. 14 00:00:39,540 --> 00:00:42,780 So how would you describe the tech psychology overlap? 15 00:00:42,780 --> 00:00:47,740 There's a million and one ways that technology and psychology overlap. 16 00:00:47,740 --> 00:00:53,260 You can think of anything from an app like Instagram, which is obviously changing our 17 00:00:53,260 --> 00:00:58,860 mental health in subtle and not subtle ways, changing our mental health, changing the way 18 00:00:58,860 --> 00:01:04,180 we think about ourselves, changing the way we think about our social relationships, et 19 00:01:04,180 --> 00:01:04,700 cetera. 20 00:01:05,180 --> 00:01:12,220 How we, you know, how our social comparison, what our frame of reference is for ourselves. 21 00:01:12,980 --> 00:01:16,460 You can think about something like that, which is not explicitly a mental health app. 22 00:01:16,460 --> 00:01:19,060 All the way to apps designed for therapy. 23 00:01:19,060 --> 00:01:24,140 There are a lot of AI chat bots coming out right now to health technologies. 24 00:01:24,140 --> 00:01:31,420 So apps designed for something like weight loss that are changing our psychological relationship 25 00:01:31,420 --> 00:01:37,500 with our bodies and food in different ways, more in undercurrents in their products. 26 00:01:37,500 --> 00:01:43,060 So it's a huge range of explicit and implicit overlap between the two. 27 00:01:43,060 --> 00:01:46,940 And I'm so excited to have you on the podcast because I think one thing that I've been 28 00:01:46,940 --> 00:01:53,380 talking with my guests about, especially this past month is the impact of technology and 29 00:01:53,380 --> 00:01:58,860 platforms like Instagram and TikTok on artists and creative people's mental health. 30 00:01:59,180 --> 00:02:05,940 Maybe some of the comparison that we do in our work and career and some of the perceptions 31 00:02:05,940 --> 00:02:11,380 of how well we think other people are doing compared to us in our own careers. 32 00:02:11,380 --> 00:02:18,220 And I know you're someone who also has a personal creative art practice on the side or sometimes 33 00:02:18,220 --> 00:02:20,380 more so in your career. 34 00:02:20,380 --> 00:02:22,900 And I'm curious if you could tell us a little bit about that as well. 35 00:02:23,900 --> 00:02:30,220 To the first point about comparison when it comes to social media, yeah, I think there's 36 00:02:30,220 --> 00:02:33,500 a really important conversation to be had there. 37 00:02:33,500 --> 00:02:37,660 I do a lot of psychological research on mindset. 38 00:02:37,660 --> 00:02:43,100 So the way the beliefs we have about something and how that how that impacts our actions 39 00:02:43,100 --> 00:02:44,620 and the way we think about something. 40 00:02:44,940 --> 00:02:47,740 And yeah, there's a lot on social comparison, right? 41 00:02:47,740 --> 00:02:53,860 Where if you're seeing if you're following all these really successful artists, you might 42 00:02:54,860 --> 00:02:58,740 fall into that comparison trap of thinking, oh, they're doing so much better than me. 43 00:02:58,740 --> 00:02:59,740 I never will. 44 00:02:59,740 --> 00:03:04,860 And then not taking action and then just falling into that cycle. 45 00:03:04,860 --> 00:03:11,620 So definitely something that's good to be aware of and kind of extract yourself when 46 00:03:11,620 --> 00:03:12,620 necessary. 47 00:03:12,620 --> 00:03:19,820 But yeah, in terms of my own creative practices, mainly writing is what it is for me. 48 00:03:19,820 --> 00:03:22,140 I do a lot of stream of consciousness writing. 49 00:03:22,140 --> 00:03:28,340 I got turned on to it a few years ago when I heard of Natalie Goldberg during the pandemic. 50 00:03:29,340 --> 00:03:33,620 She is a very famous writing teacher who has a lot of work to do. 51 00:03:33,620 --> 00:03:37,260 She's a very good writer, who has a lot of books on writing. 52 00:03:37,260 --> 00:03:41,340 The best, I think most well-known one is writing down the bones. 53 00:03:41,340 --> 00:03:47,100 And she talks a lot about the intersection of Zen and stream of consciousness writing, 54 00:03:47,100 --> 00:03:50,460 Zen and writing in a beautiful way. 55 00:03:50,460 --> 00:03:55,580 And yeah, I've kind of followed in that that frame. 56 00:03:55,580 --> 00:04:01,460 So timed writing practices where you're writing kind of faster than the internal critic can 57 00:04:01,460 --> 00:04:05,100 come in for a certain length of time. 58 00:04:05,100 --> 00:04:06,880 Yeah, that's so interesting. 59 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:09,340 Writing faster than internal critic. 60 00:04:09,340 --> 00:04:14,380 I think that's something that I've been thinking about lately too, almost as if living my life 61 00:04:14,380 --> 00:04:19,580 in the moment is maybe being a little bit faster than internal critic that loves to 62 00:04:19,580 --> 00:04:21,100 criticize every little thing. 63 00:04:21,100 --> 00:04:27,020 Yeah, I remember you talking about this book when we were in Santa Monica earlier this 64 00:04:27,020 --> 00:04:28,020 summer. 65 00:04:28,020 --> 00:04:29,020 Yeah. 66 00:04:29,020 --> 00:04:33,180 And then you also mentioned there's I think like another author who writes about running, 67 00:04:33,180 --> 00:04:36,020 who like knows that author. 68 00:04:36,020 --> 00:04:38,020 Could you tell us about that a little bit too? 69 00:04:38,020 --> 00:04:39,020 Yes. 70 00:04:39,020 --> 00:04:43,020 Sorry, I'm just looking up the author's name. 71 00:04:43,020 --> 00:04:44,020 Oh, no, go for it. 72 00:04:44,020 --> 00:04:46,020 Oh, it's Katie Arnold. 73 00:04:46,020 --> 00:04:47,020 Yeah. 74 00:04:47,020 --> 00:04:53,700 So over the pandemic, I got really into Natalie Goldberg, like I just mentioned, and her intersection 75 00:04:53,700 --> 00:04:56,300 of Zen and writing. 76 00:04:56,300 --> 00:05:01,180 And Katie Arnold is another author who is actually friends with Natalie Goldberg and 77 00:05:01,180 --> 00:05:02,980 was taught by her. 78 00:05:02,980 --> 00:05:09,020 But she's also a professional ultra runner and has won a lot of big ultra races. 79 00:05:09,020 --> 00:05:15,420 And as a long distance runner myself, who's also a writer and interested in some of these 80 00:05:15,420 --> 00:05:18,460 spiritual overlaps of running and writing. 81 00:05:18,460 --> 00:05:23,700 Yeah, I would definitely recommend Katie Arnold's work as well because she kind of ties all 82 00:05:23,700 --> 00:05:25,860 three of them together in this beautiful way. 83 00:05:25,860 --> 00:05:27,540 Yeah, yeah. 84 00:05:27,540 --> 00:05:30,740 So tell me about some of the runs you've done recently. 85 00:05:30,740 --> 00:05:35,260 And if you can name it off the top of your head, what's like the longest run you've ever 86 00:05:35,260 --> 00:05:36,260 done? 87 00:05:36,260 --> 00:05:46,020 Oh, the longest run I've ever done is a 50k, which is the shortest ultra marathon distance 88 00:05:46,020 --> 00:05:48,820 out there, which is 31 miles. 89 00:05:48,820 --> 00:05:49,820 Wow. 90 00:05:49,820 --> 00:05:54,420 And yeah, I love trail running being out in nature. 91 00:05:54,420 --> 00:06:02,460 Yeah, it's definitely a big part of my mental health practice, my spiritual grounding practice. 92 00:06:02,460 --> 00:06:07,240 I mean, Jules and I lived together for several years. 93 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:08,240 You got me into running. 94 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:13,500 Yeah, you got me into running on a daily basis. 95 00:06:13,500 --> 00:06:17,500 And I've been thinking about that a lot more lately, actually, because I think during the 96 00:06:17,500 --> 00:06:20,460 two years we lived together, I'd wake up and like run every day. 97 00:06:20,460 --> 00:06:22,340 Yeah, it was good for my mental health. 98 00:06:22,340 --> 00:06:27,060 And then, well, I think about that a lot these days because I go on more walks. 99 00:06:27,060 --> 00:06:30,460 But there is definitely a high you get from running. 100 00:06:30,460 --> 00:06:35,620 There's a sense of accomplishment, but there's also a lot of focus involved. 101 00:06:35,620 --> 00:06:42,100 And I think about art practice sometimes as like that marathon run. 102 00:06:42,100 --> 00:06:45,540 And I haven't run like too many like crazy long distances. 103 00:06:45,540 --> 00:06:48,580 I did my first half marathon this year. 104 00:06:48,580 --> 00:06:51,700 But it was actually like a really chill one. 105 00:06:51,700 --> 00:06:57,100 It was the one in Maui along the west side. 106 00:06:57,100 --> 00:07:02,180 But there is this one dude too who I saw running and every mile he would pull to the side and 107 00:07:02,180 --> 00:07:03,180 like paint. 108 00:07:03,180 --> 00:07:07,740 Yeah, oh my gosh, like after every mile he'd like paint. 109 00:07:07,740 --> 00:07:11,100 Yeah, and I think he still finished like before I did. 110 00:07:11,100 --> 00:07:13,100 Oh my gosh. 111 00:07:13,100 --> 00:07:14,100 Yeah. 112 00:07:14,100 --> 00:07:15,700 Okay, that's really cool. 113 00:07:15,700 --> 00:07:22,460 But when it comes to I suppose like the routine of running and your schedule, your day to 114 00:07:22,460 --> 00:07:28,820 day, I think one thing that strikes me about you as a person is you're so in the moment 115 00:07:28,820 --> 00:07:29,820 in a way. 116 00:07:29,820 --> 00:07:35,740 And at the same time, like you keep up this high intensity schedule, whether that's with 117 00:07:35,740 --> 00:07:37,740 like school or training. 118 00:07:37,740 --> 00:07:40,340 What do you think that comes down to? 119 00:07:40,340 --> 00:07:48,460 Good question, I mean, definitely glad to hear I seem in the moment. 120 00:07:48,460 --> 00:07:53,220 Of course, I am very human and I'm not always feeling like I'm in the moment. 121 00:07:53,220 --> 00:08:02,060 But yeah, I do think one one thing that always helps me is just deciding what I'm going to 122 00:08:02,060 --> 00:08:08,620 do during a particular hour of the day or time period and like having that peace of 123 00:08:08,620 --> 00:08:14,660 mind that things are accounted for and then knowing during that hour of it, this is what 124 00:08:14,660 --> 00:08:17,540 this is about, I can dive into this. 125 00:08:17,540 --> 00:08:22,420 I think that's definitely, that's definitely at least what helps me with focus. 126 00:08:22,420 --> 00:08:28,180 Even if presence feels like perhaps a different thing and maybe something I'm not quite as 127 00:08:28,180 --> 00:08:35,060 good at, but I can definitely dial into something and focus for an hour if I need to. 128 00:08:35,060 --> 00:08:42,060 Do you ever deal with intrusive thoughts as someone who is studying clinical psychology? 129 00:08:42,060 --> 00:08:49,860 And if you see that come up in your practice, like what's that self observation like? 130 00:08:49,860 --> 00:08:58,820 Yeah, I mean, so I, we all have intrusive thoughts is one of the first pieces of psychoeducational 131 00:08:58,820 --> 00:09:05,140 tell a client when they come in and say, say they do like one of the classic things or 132 00:09:05,140 --> 00:09:13,140 examples we use is we've all had a thought when we're driving or, you know, when we're 133 00:09:13,140 --> 00:09:19,660 on the roof of a building or something of, oh, what if I just like ran the car into something 134 00:09:19,660 --> 00:09:26,180 or what if I just jumped, you know, I mean, it's really natural and normal to have intrusive 135 00:09:26,180 --> 00:09:30,700 thoughts like that and they don't, they don't indicate a problem. 136 00:09:30,700 --> 00:09:36,860 Some people's brains are just a little bit stickier to intrusive thoughts and where we 137 00:09:36,860 --> 00:09:40,500 start having an issue is actually if we just start getting worried about the intrusive 138 00:09:40,500 --> 00:09:47,500 thought and start taking it as something that means something about us rather than just, 139 00:09:47,500 --> 00:09:50,980 you know, signal firing in our brain. 140 00:09:50,980 --> 00:09:56,940 Yeah, that's actually really refreshing to hear because I've never heard someone say 141 00:09:56,940 --> 00:10:00,340 that that like intrusive thoughts are actually really normal. 142 00:10:00,340 --> 00:10:03,980 And I think maybe that's kind of relieving for some people to hear. 143 00:10:03,980 --> 00:10:09,620 You know, OCD intrusive thoughts, it's one of my favorite things someone will show up 144 00:10:09,620 --> 00:10:14,940 with actually in therapy because it is so an hour of psychoeducation about this is how 145 00:10:14,940 --> 00:10:16,300 intrusive thoughts work. 146 00:10:16,300 --> 00:10:18,620 This is, you know, what you need to know. 147 00:10:18,620 --> 00:10:20,900 This is why they happen. 148 00:10:20,900 --> 00:10:26,860 That like just learning about it will improve the intrusive thoughts so much. 149 00:10:26,860 --> 00:10:30,540 Sometimes people come in the next week and say, cool, I'm good to go. 150 00:10:30,540 --> 00:10:35,940 I've been struggling with this for a year, but that hour was all I needed. 151 00:10:35,940 --> 00:10:40,460 Sometimes of course, it's a lot more complex with that, especially with, you know, OCD 152 00:10:40,460 --> 00:10:43,580 and more acute cases like that. 153 00:10:43,580 --> 00:10:47,260 But have you been having intrusive thoughts lately? 154 00:10:47,260 --> 00:10:53,380 Not as much lately, but you know, one thing that I've noticed is I almost have to busy 155 00:10:53,380 --> 00:10:57,300 myself from intrusive thoughts. 156 00:10:57,300 --> 00:11:04,500 I have observed like my patterns of work and this intensity that I build. 157 00:11:04,500 --> 00:11:08,820 And I almost feel like sometimes I have all this energy that I need to direct into like 158 00:11:08,820 --> 00:11:14,620 creativity or sports, like a schedule that pulls me out of the house. 159 00:11:14,620 --> 00:11:21,700 Because if I allow myself to like stay in my room all day and like work on one thing, 160 00:11:21,700 --> 00:11:24,020 I can almost overdo it. 161 00:11:24,020 --> 00:11:26,500 Yeah, just like anything. 162 00:11:26,500 --> 00:11:31,560 But I think especially earlier this year too, where I just like had no idea what was going 163 00:11:31,560 --> 00:11:32,560 on in my life. 164 00:11:32,560 --> 00:11:37,220 Like there's this one moment I was in Mexico City and I was on a hot air balloon and I 165 00:11:37,220 --> 00:11:38,580 was like, oh, this is sick. 166 00:11:38,580 --> 00:11:39,580 This is awesome. 167 00:11:39,580 --> 00:11:41,580 But also like, I hate my life right now. 168 00:11:41,580 --> 00:11:46,300 I was like, I should be enjoying this, but like, this sucks. 169 00:11:46,300 --> 00:11:54,460 Yeah, like going through a breakup, you know, like, just being a little bit too self aware. 170 00:11:54,460 --> 00:11:58,660 I don't know if you're like following this whole like pop culture phenomenon of like 171 00:11:58,660 --> 00:12:00,140 Chappell Rhone recently. 172 00:12:00,140 --> 00:12:05,580 I definitely know her music, but I don't know much more. 173 00:12:05,580 --> 00:12:08,060 Yeah, let me give you a little bit of a rundown. 174 00:12:08,060 --> 00:12:13,860 So she became like hella famous, like just in the short span of a few months. 175 00:12:13,860 --> 00:12:18,780 And then recently she's been canceling dates on her tour because she's like, I can't, 176 00:12:18,780 --> 00:12:22,000 like I feel like I just can't show up. 177 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:26,300 But whenever she does show up, she'll like overpack the arena. 178 00:12:26,300 --> 00:12:28,620 Like everyone's like there, they're ready. 179 00:12:28,620 --> 00:12:31,260 She just reached like this level of stardom. 180 00:12:31,260 --> 00:12:40,060 But she's dealing with like, I guess like this depression and inability to focus. 181 00:12:40,060 --> 00:12:45,820 And honestly, like I'm not Chappell Rhone, but I see myself in that a lot of times, where 182 00:12:45,820 --> 00:12:49,500 I think like sometimes as a high performing individual or someone who like suddenly gets 183 00:12:49,500 --> 00:12:52,580 like the spotlight on me. 184 00:12:52,580 --> 00:12:55,920 I'm sure like maybe some other creatives can relate to this. 185 00:12:55,920 --> 00:13:00,340 And also like being a woman, there are parts of me where I'm like, holy crap, like, should 186 00:13:00,340 --> 00:13:01,340 I be humble? 187 00:13:01,340 --> 00:13:06,300 Like, is this enough to for me to handle? 188 00:13:06,300 --> 00:13:07,500 Like what does this mean for me? 189 00:13:07,500 --> 00:13:10,500 Like how do I like keep on performing at this level? 190 00:13:10,500 --> 00:13:11,500 Yeah. 191 00:13:11,500 --> 00:13:12,500 Yeah, definitely. 192 00:13:12,500 --> 00:13:23,700 I mean, I think it can be pretty excess done, fusing loud to be going through life at baseline, 193 00:13:23,700 --> 00:13:34,060 not alone facing a big translation like that and or break up or whatever it might be. 194 00:13:34,060 --> 00:13:40,060 And yeah, I think it's a fine balance of how to respond to those questions as they come 195 00:13:40,060 --> 00:13:41,060 up. 196 00:13:41,060 --> 00:13:43,980 And yeah, life, life does not stop. 197 00:13:43,980 --> 00:13:50,020 It's always relentless and throwing us new existential conundrums. 198 00:13:50,020 --> 00:13:52,220 So yeah, it's tough. 199 00:13:52,220 --> 00:13:56,580 I know I don't mean to make this like a therapy session for me, but I think sometimes it's 200 00:13:56,580 --> 00:14:01,540 like, yeah, I'm like, okay, fine. 201 00:14:01,540 --> 00:14:03,540 I love it. 202 00:14:03,540 --> 00:14:12,220 Yeah, actually, I want to hear more about what it means to like, be a therapist for 203 00:14:12,220 --> 00:14:13,220 you these days. 204 00:14:13,220 --> 00:14:17,180 Like, would you call yourself one because you're definitely seeing clients and patients 205 00:14:17,180 --> 00:14:22,500 and I remember like being in the other room from you and you're like, you got a packed 206 00:14:22,500 --> 00:14:23,500 schedule. 207 00:14:23,500 --> 00:14:26,780 Sometimes it feels like 7am to 5pm, like back to back clients. 208 00:14:26,780 --> 00:14:28,140 Yeah, definitely. 209 00:14:28,140 --> 00:14:34,340 I would say I both am a therapist and becoming one right now because I'm in clinical training. 210 00:14:34,340 --> 00:14:42,020 But as part of clinical training, we do, you know, we are clinicians, half time, supervised 211 00:14:42,020 --> 00:14:48,540 clinicians, you know, getting our training, but we see tons of clients, one on one. 212 00:14:48,540 --> 00:14:54,460 And yeah, to become a therapist, you have to be a therapist for quite a few years. 213 00:14:54,460 --> 00:14:58,140 So that is that's where I'm at right now. 214 00:14:58,140 --> 00:15:03,980 And yeah, I mean, it can definitely be pretty, pretty packed days. 215 00:15:03,980 --> 00:15:05,740 I have been really enjoying it. 216 00:15:05,740 --> 00:15:13,060 I think I love and perhaps folks in the artistic world can agree. 217 00:15:13,060 --> 00:15:20,460 I mean, I have just loved doing work that I feel is meaningful, even, you know, maybe 218 00:15:20,460 --> 00:15:25,780 some days I'll see five clients and two of the sessions will feel good. 219 00:15:25,780 --> 00:15:29,500 And maybe a few moments from those will feel really good. 220 00:15:29,500 --> 00:15:37,780 And I'll know that I that day sat with someone and helped them, even if, you know, it's not 221 00:15:37,780 --> 00:15:42,580 a black and white change or some huge breakthrough. 222 00:15:42,580 --> 00:15:49,980 It just has felt really wonderful to feel like I'm doing meaningful work. 223 00:15:49,980 --> 00:15:56,580 And yeah, for context, too, before grad school, I was doing software engineering, which, you 224 00:15:56,580 --> 00:16:02,580 know, can be meaningful in its own way, but definitely has a different flavor of meaningfulness 225 00:16:02,580 --> 00:16:05,300 and not as much human to human connection. 226 00:16:05,300 --> 00:16:10,980 So that's been therapist life in a sense for me. 227 00:16:10,980 --> 00:16:11,980 Yeah. 228 00:16:11,980 --> 00:16:12,980 Yeah. 229 00:16:12,980 --> 00:16:13,980 Yeah. 230 00:16:13,980 --> 00:16:22,540 Being a software engineer, especially like post grad from Stanford, and you studied symbolic 231 00:16:22,540 --> 00:16:24,540 systems undergraduate. 232 00:16:24,540 --> 00:16:27,660 Yeah. 233 00:16:27,660 --> 00:16:33,620 In some ways, that's like kind of a traditional path, but also like, I love how you chose 234 00:16:33,620 --> 00:16:39,140 your own interests after school and made it your own. 235 00:16:39,140 --> 00:16:44,180 Are there like any alternative therapies or like new research like on your radar? 236 00:16:44,180 --> 00:16:47,660 Oh, good question. 237 00:16:47,660 --> 00:16:54,180 I mean, one one therapy I'm loving these days is IFS, internal family systems. 238 00:16:54,180 --> 00:16:56,140 I don't know if you worked with it at all. 239 00:16:56,140 --> 00:17:02,620 Yeah, actually, I've been seeing a therapist not recently, but I saw her for like maybe 240 00:17:02,620 --> 00:17:03,620 six months. 241 00:17:03,620 --> 00:17:04,620 Yeah. 242 00:17:04,620 --> 00:17:06,620 She was super helpful, actually. 243 00:17:06,620 --> 00:17:12,700 Yeah, I think it's a pretty amazing therapy. 244 00:17:12,700 --> 00:17:20,580 I think as you're thinking about therapies and experiencing it, one thing I have noticed, 245 00:17:20,580 --> 00:17:26,500 which is common knowledge in some ways is the more experiential your therapy session 246 00:17:26,500 --> 00:17:35,180 can be where you are having a corrective attachment experience with your therapist or you are 247 00:17:35,180 --> 00:17:41,340 experiencing your emotions in a new way, like you're relating to them in a new way in session. 248 00:17:41,340 --> 00:17:51,100 Having that corrective experiential note is where a lot of the magic happens in therapy. 249 00:17:51,100 --> 00:17:56,780 And I think IFS is really great at going straight to the experience of the emotion and working 250 00:17:56,780 --> 00:18:00,460 with it in real time. 251 00:18:00,460 --> 00:18:04,980 Whereas some of the other therapies like CBT to me is a little bit heady where it's just 252 00:18:04,980 --> 00:18:05,980 kind of. 253 00:18:05,980 --> 00:18:13,820 I feel like I'm going to make it sometimes like in cognitive behavioral therapy. 254 00:18:13,820 --> 00:18:17,860 Whereas like internal family systems for me kind of felt like the movie Inside Out, like 255 00:18:17,860 --> 00:18:25,820 I was able to name all the little parts of me, what their goals were, and then ultimately 256 00:18:25,820 --> 00:18:29,700 realize like all these parts are me, especially when I'm like functioning. 257 00:18:29,700 --> 00:18:36,700 And then there is like a dysfunctional side as well that is like a pattern that can be 258 00:18:36,700 --> 00:18:37,700 pinpointed. 259 00:18:37,700 --> 00:18:40,980 And I'm someone who is like really pattern recognition oriented. 260 00:18:40,980 --> 00:18:49,260 So if I can recognize it and then kind of undo a pattern, that's super helpful to me. 261 00:18:49,260 --> 00:18:54,200 So on the note of therapies, I'm curious, I know that you do a bit of your own therapy 262 00:18:54,200 --> 00:19:01,340 as well, and has what you've studied changed the way that you've sought out therapy for 263 00:19:01,340 --> 00:19:02,340 yourself? 264 00:19:02,340 --> 00:19:06,700 Also, I mean, you're talking to so many patients. 265 00:19:06,700 --> 00:19:12,060 So does that impact like how often you do your own therapy just to like kind of come 266 00:19:12,060 --> 00:19:14,300 down from their experiences? 267 00:19:14,300 --> 00:19:17,100 Oh, so interesting. 268 00:19:17,100 --> 00:19:22,740 Yeah, let's see, it's definitely changed a little bit the way I interface with therapy, 269 00:19:22,740 --> 00:19:27,420 just knowing what's going on under the hood. 270 00:19:27,420 --> 00:19:33,900 Yeah, like I definitely brought up with my own therapist recently, somewhat recently, 271 00:19:33,900 --> 00:19:40,020 something about my relationship with him, because in school, I've learned and in my 272 00:19:40,020 --> 00:19:46,020 training today, I've learned so much about how the relationship with the therapist is 273 00:19:46,020 --> 00:19:50,460 a lot of also where the magic happens, you know, that relational corrective experience 274 00:19:50,460 --> 00:19:51,460 I was just talking about. 275 00:19:51,460 --> 00:19:59,900 So something like that I wouldn't have I wouldn't have ever done before as a as a patient. 276 00:19:59,900 --> 00:20:07,340 And then in terms of frequency, I starting grad school thought I would be talking about 277 00:20:07,340 --> 00:20:12,260 processing some of my own clinical experience a lot in therapy, that actually hasn't happened 278 00:20:12,260 --> 00:20:13,260 much. 279 00:20:13,260 --> 00:20:21,020 Maybe a handful of times have I said, Oh, this has been emotionally taxing or, you know, 280 00:20:21,020 --> 00:20:29,540 how am I supposed to deal with this part of things or something or Oh, I've noticed this 281 00:20:29,540 --> 00:20:32,500 about the way I relate to my own clients, etc. 282 00:20:32,500 --> 00:20:35,380 But no, no huge change. 283 00:20:35,380 --> 00:20:39,580 And in fact, I think I've almost gone to a lesser frequency. 284 00:20:39,580 --> 00:20:43,740 And part of that is it's a little bit weird to I'm in therapy world so much of my day 285 00:20:43,740 --> 00:20:47,660 and then to switch in, you know, I'm still in it with my own therapist. 286 00:20:47,660 --> 00:20:51,300 It's just the roles are reversed. 287 00:20:51,300 --> 00:20:55,740 And you know, it's just funny to switch from your own. 288 00:20:55,740 --> 00:20:59,740 There's been one or two times it's been back to back where I've gone from being a therapist 289 00:20:59,740 --> 00:21:03,540 to being a patient in like 10 minutes. 290 00:21:03,540 --> 00:21:06,340 And it's kind of funny. 291 00:21:06,340 --> 00:21:07,340 Yeah. 292 00:21:07,340 --> 00:21:10,140 Yeah, maybe sometimes it just feels like lots of meetings. 293 00:21:10,140 --> 00:21:11,620 I don't know. 294 00:21:11,620 --> 00:21:14,780 Yeah, I think zoom is zoom is one thing I've learned. 295 00:21:14,780 --> 00:21:19,460 So I've tried and do as much clinical work in person. 296 00:21:19,460 --> 00:21:26,460 But six hours of zoom, even if it's, you know, really wonderful person to person therapy 297 00:21:26,460 --> 00:21:29,460 is still six hours of zoom. 298 00:21:29,460 --> 00:21:33,620 So beware, beware of zoom. 299 00:21:33,620 --> 00:21:41,740 So one thing that's not zoom, tell me, I know that you went to Burning Man this year. 300 00:21:41,740 --> 00:21:42,740 How was it? 301 00:21:42,740 --> 00:21:45,060 Tell me a little bit about the 2024 experience. 302 00:21:45,060 --> 00:21:49,100 Oh my gosh, it was awesome. 303 00:21:49,100 --> 00:21:50,100 Second time there. 304 00:21:50,100 --> 00:22:01,140 So the novelty of the first burn wasn't as much with me, but just still as magical and 305 00:22:01,140 --> 00:22:09,540 amazing and really got to, you know, choose your own adventure, just like you're meant 306 00:22:09,540 --> 00:22:12,540 to with the burn. 307 00:22:12,540 --> 00:22:14,340 And yeah, what can I say? 308 00:22:14,340 --> 00:22:17,780 I mean, were there as many people this year? 309 00:22:17,780 --> 00:22:22,460 I don't know why for some reason I had a feeling it was like a little bit, you know, 30%. 310 00:22:22,460 --> 00:22:24,220 No, I think it was less. 311 00:22:24,220 --> 00:22:26,380 There was no traffic getting in or out. 312 00:22:26,380 --> 00:22:28,780 Where usually it's crazy. 313 00:22:28,780 --> 00:22:32,180 And yeah, I think it was a little bit more chill burn. 314 00:22:32,180 --> 00:22:35,740 I mean, you still felt like you were in a busy city and everything. 315 00:22:35,740 --> 00:22:41,540 But I think, yeah, things were a little less crowded on the whole, which is great. 316 00:22:41,540 --> 00:22:45,740 Have you thought about going? 317 00:22:45,740 --> 00:22:46,740 What's your? 318 00:22:46,740 --> 00:22:49,300 I have thought about going to Burning Man. 319 00:22:49,300 --> 00:22:55,220 I'm always like a little bit afraid because I want to be self-sufficient. 320 00:22:55,220 --> 00:22:57,140 I want to do it the right way. 321 00:22:57,140 --> 00:23:01,740 But then there's also this part of me that like, I think panics around the idea of being 322 00:23:01,740 --> 00:23:02,740 self-sufficient. 323 00:23:02,740 --> 00:23:13,220 So I want to go with like a person who's willing to integrate me with a camp. 324 00:23:13,220 --> 00:23:19,140 I want to go during a year where I don't feel like I have to work too much. 325 00:23:19,140 --> 00:23:23,420 Like this year, I've been working kind of a lot. 326 00:23:23,420 --> 00:23:28,940 I also feel like I had some friends that went from Maui this year just for fun because they're 327 00:23:28,940 --> 00:23:29,940 like, hey, why not? 328 00:23:29,940 --> 00:23:30,940 And I think they had a good time. 329 00:23:30,940 --> 00:23:33,620 Maybe it was like a great first year for them. 330 00:23:33,620 --> 00:23:36,020 So I still want to go. 331 00:23:36,020 --> 00:23:37,020 Yeah. 332 00:23:37,020 --> 00:23:38,020 Yeah. 333 00:23:38,020 --> 00:23:45,340 I think it's a great, I mean, I always talk about Burning Man as it's a city. 334 00:23:45,340 --> 00:23:46,340 It's just like Manhattan. 335 00:23:46,340 --> 00:23:51,780 You can go and have a really different week depending on who you are and what you're looking 336 00:23:51,780 --> 00:23:52,780 for. 337 00:23:52,780 --> 00:23:53,780 You could spend the whole week partying. 338 00:23:53,780 --> 00:23:57,020 You could spend the whole week. 339 00:23:57,020 --> 00:23:58,220 My boyfriend went with me. 340 00:23:58,220 --> 00:24:08,180 It was his first burn and he had kind of a wellness burn and just went to spas and the 341 00:24:08,180 --> 00:24:11,060 farmer's market. 342 00:24:11,060 --> 00:24:13,660 I could totally see that. 343 00:24:13,660 --> 00:24:20,580 And yoga like all day and runs like group runs at the burn. 344 00:24:20,580 --> 00:24:24,780 So you really can do it in any type of way. 345 00:24:24,780 --> 00:24:31,220 And I think it's a great city to put on your bucket list of cities in the world that you 346 00:24:31,220 --> 00:24:32,220 want to go to. 347 00:24:32,220 --> 00:24:38,660 I mean, it's kind of the same, same, same, but different. 348 00:24:38,660 --> 00:24:39,660 Okay. 349 00:24:39,660 --> 00:24:45,500 So speaking of traveling in cities, didn't you also go to Japan earlier this year? 350 00:24:45,500 --> 00:24:46,740 Or was that a laugh? 351 00:24:46,740 --> 00:24:47,740 I can't remember. 352 00:24:47,740 --> 00:24:48,740 I did. 353 00:24:48,740 --> 00:24:49,740 I did. 354 00:24:49,740 --> 00:24:53,780 Right at the beginning of the year, like January 5th, I went to Japan to visit my brother 355 00:24:53,780 --> 00:24:56,980 who was living in Japan for the last year or two. 356 00:24:56,980 --> 00:24:57,980 Yeah. 357 00:24:57,980 --> 00:24:59,620 But I highly recommend Japan. 358 00:24:59,620 --> 00:25:01,540 Very different than Black Rock City. 359 00:25:01,540 --> 00:25:02,540 Oh, absolutely. 360 00:25:02,540 --> 00:25:08,100 But yeah, it was so wonderful and I felt really safe traveling there. 361 00:25:08,100 --> 00:25:09,100 You've traveled there alone, right? 362 00:25:09,100 --> 00:25:10,100 And it was great. 363 00:25:10,100 --> 00:25:11,100 Yeah, I did. 364 00:25:11,100 --> 00:25:12,100 I traveled there alone. 365 00:25:12,100 --> 00:25:16,100 I did a run around Imperial Palace. 366 00:25:16,100 --> 00:25:17,100 It was nice. 367 00:25:17,100 --> 00:25:18,840 It was really calm. 368 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,620 This is like pre-COVID, so it's 2018. 369 00:25:21,620 --> 00:25:23,980 I liked going to the onsens. 370 00:25:23,980 --> 00:25:25,980 Did you do the bathhouses at all? 371 00:25:25,980 --> 00:25:26,980 Yes, we did. 372 00:25:26,980 --> 00:25:31,740 We went up into the mountains where there's lots of onsens in particular. 373 00:25:31,740 --> 00:25:34,740 It was winter, so it was very cold. 374 00:25:34,740 --> 00:25:35,740 It was wonderful. 375 00:25:35,740 --> 00:25:36,740 I love traveling. 376 00:25:36,740 --> 00:25:38,220 Such an amazing culture. 377 00:25:38,220 --> 00:25:39,220 Yeah. 378 00:25:39,220 --> 00:25:46,220 So yeah, I love asking you about travel because I feel like I see you travel a bunch and then 379 00:25:46,220 --> 00:25:48,220 I don't get to catch up with you. 380 00:25:48,220 --> 00:25:49,220 I know. 381 00:25:49,220 --> 00:25:50,220 I know. 382 00:25:50,220 --> 00:25:56,620 I can be asking you about the new culture you're exposed to over there. 383 00:25:56,620 --> 00:25:57,620 I'm so curious. 384 00:25:57,620 --> 00:25:58,620 Yes. 385 00:25:58,620 --> 00:26:01,740 You should ask me questions because I will tell you. 386 00:26:01,740 --> 00:26:11,180 So I'm in Outer Boise, Idaho, and it's such a culture shock and I know nothing, but I'm 387 00:26:11,180 --> 00:26:13,860 learning everything at the same time. 388 00:26:13,860 --> 00:26:16,740 The area that I'm in is a lot of farmland. 389 00:26:16,740 --> 00:26:19,740 There are horses. 390 00:26:19,740 --> 00:26:27,140 Then I go into the city for work a lot, just three days a week at a design studio. 391 00:26:27,140 --> 00:26:29,420 It's such a cute up and coming city. 392 00:26:29,420 --> 00:26:32,260 There's lots of wine bars. 393 00:26:32,260 --> 00:26:36,500 This past weekend, actually, I went to this Plain Art Festival. 394 00:26:36,500 --> 00:26:39,260 They have one going on all week. 395 00:26:39,260 --> 00:26:46,100 There are these older ladies, 60 plus, just painting the landscape and there's up and 396 00:26:46,100 --> 00:26:49,100 coming wine country out in the north. 397 00:26:49,100 --> 00:26:54,380 Actually, yesterday I went and I brought my dog Charlie with me. 398 00:26:54,380 --> 00:26:55,380 He's a pug beagle. 399 00:26:55,380 --> 00:26:56,380 I'm walking around. 400 00:26:56,380 --> 00:27:01,300 It was kind of hot and there isn't too many people painting. 401 00:27:01,300 --> 00:27:03,340 I was like, okay. 402 00:27:03,340 --> 00:27:06,700 Charlie took a dump and then I picked it up and I was like, okay, we're going to leave. 403 00:27:06,700 --> 00:27:07,700 We're going to leave now. 404 00:27:07,700 --> 00:27:12,620 Then as I'm walking away, someone is like, is that a puggle? 405 00:27:12,620 --> 00:27:17,020 I turned around and then there's this man there. 406 00:27:17,020 --> 00:27:20,340 He starts petting up my dog and we're chatting. 407 00:27:20,340 --> 00:27:24,700 I guess I have a date now tomorrow with this guy. 408 00:27:24,700 --> 00:27:28,860 He was there to paint for this festival. 409 00:27:28,860 --> 00:27:33,700 Conveniently, he had a name tag so I Googled him and all of that. 410 00:27:33,700 --> 00:27:41,780 I was like, oh, he has a very interesting background actually, architecture, landscape 411 00:27:41,780 --> 00:27:42,780 painting. 412 00:27:42,780 --> 00:27:46,340 We're going to go to a wine bar tomorrow. 413 00:27:46,340 --> 00:27:47,340 Very casual. 414 00:27:47,340 --> 00:27:48,340 What a great meat cute. 415 00:27:48,340 --> 00:27:51,620 Any meat cute that involves a dog is a good one. 416 00:27:51,620 --> 00:27:52,620 Exactly. 417 00:27:52,620 --> 00:27:53,620 In my opinion. 418 00:27:53,620 --> 00:27:59,180 I think in my head, I always thought that I needed to live in a city like New York or 419 00:27:59,180 --> 00:28:04,380 San Francisco to have a meat cute like that, but I'm having tons of meat cutes in Boise, 420 00:28:04,380 --> 00:28:05,380 Idaho. 421 00:28:05,380 --> 00:28:11,620 I think it's because there's so many people like me who are like, oh god, I wish I could 422 00:28:11,620 --> 00:28:16,500 afford to live outside of Boise right now, but then all of us are in Boise and we're 423 00:28:16,500 --> 00:28:18,460 like, oh wait, you're here too. 424 00:28:18,460 --> 00:28:21,460 That's kind of fun. 425 00:28:21,460 --> 00:28:24,700 I think it's braced that. 426 00:28:24,700 --> 00:28:25,700 Absolutely braced that. 427 00:28:25,700 --> 00:28:26,700 I feel like- 428 00:28:26,700 --> 00:28:27,700 Oh yeah, go ahead. 429 00:28:27,700 --> 00:28:28,700 Yeah, go for it. 430 00:28:28,700 --> 00:28:34,900 I was going to say it just feels like rabid college vibes sometimes, but I love it. 431 00:28:34,900 --> 00:28:35,900 Incredible. 432 00:28:35,900 --> 00:28:40,860 I think that's a good place to be, honestly. 433 00:28:40,860 --> 00:28:45,220 And the rent is really cheap too, so I'm not paying rent at the moment, but you can 434 00:28:45,220 --> 00:28:53,540 get a really nice luxury apartment, has a dog washing center, sauna, $1400. 435 00:28:53,540 --> 00:28:54,540 One bedroom. 436 00:28:54,540 --> 00:28:57,620 What is a dog washing center? 437 00:28:57,620 --> 00:29:02,140 It's just like, I don't know if you've ever seen buildings that have amenities for 438 00:29:02,140 --> 00:29:03,140 pets. 439 00:29:03,140 --> 00:29:04,140 No, that's incredible. 440 00:29:04,140 --> 00:29:05,140 Yeah, so it's one of those. 441 00:29:05,140 --> 00:29:06,140 That's incredible. 442 00:29:06,140 --> 00:29:13,340 Wait, so one bedroom for $1400, that's unreal. 443 00:29:13,340 --> 00:29:19,780 And then you could get a regular bedroom, I think, for maybe $700. 444 00:29:19,780 --> 00:29:25,300 Someone I worked with was telling me that when she was in college, she paid $400 for 445 00:29:25,300 --> 00:29:29,860 an entire three bedroom house, which is insane. 446 00:29:29,860 --> 00:29:33,300 I went to the housing market to crash, so it's like that again. 447 00:29:33,300 --> 00:29:36,540 I mean, that is insane. 448 00:29:36,540 --> 00:29:37,540 Wow. 449 00:29:37,540 --> 00:29:39,260 Yeah, but it's cute. 450 00:29:39,260 --> 00:29:45,340 There are some parts of North Boise that kind of remind me of Palo Alto, the really 451 00:29:45,340 --> 00:29:50,780 cute parts, and then you just kind of go down a few blocks and it's like a city. 452 00:29:50,780 --> 00:29:52,580 As the fall then, is it getting cold? 453 00:29:52,580 --> 00:29:54,820 Are you having good leats yet? 454 00:29:54,820 --> 00:29:56,820 It's very temperamental right now. 455 00:29:56,820 --> 00:30:00,860 Yeah, it gets really cold sometimes in the morning, and then other times it'll randomly 456 00:30:00,860 --> 00:30:04,380 be like 80 degrees by 1pm. 457 00:30:04,380 --> 00:30:12,180 So a few years ago, I was in Ketchum, Idaho for this month, like September, October. 458 00:30:12,180 --> 00:30:18,100 You almost can't remember, but then there were really bad fires, so that week I didn't 459 00:30:18,100 --> 00:30:21,100 go or something. 460 00:30:21,100 --> 00:30:25,820 But yeah, the fall foliage was amazing. 461 00:30:25,820 --> 00:30:27,380 You know what I hear lately? 462 00:30:27,380 --> 00:30:33,740 So there's fires going on a little bit, I guess, maybe north of here, but it's like 463 00:30:33,740 --> 00:30:37,980 sage brush, so we're just getting saged constantly. 464 00:30:37,980 --> 00:30:38,980 Oh wow. 465 00:30:38,980 --> 00:30:39,980 Yeah. 466 00:30:39,980 --> 00:30:43,460 Very clear, energetic portal then. 467 00:30:43,460 --> 00:30:49,500 I guess so, yeah, and some people are kind of allergic to sage. 468 00:30:49,500 --> 00:30:54,460 And then actually when I think of indigenous practices and clothes practices, people would 469 00:30:54,460 --> 00:30:58,500 say that like, sieging is a closed practice or used to be. 470 00:30:58,500 --> 00:31:05,140 There's like some debate on that in the spiritual cultural community, which I don't feel like 471 00:31:05,140 --> 00:31:06,820 I know enough about. 472 00:31:06,820 --> 00:31:12,860 But I just thought it was kind of like funny because I actually love the idea of just like 473 00:31:12,860 --> 00:31:17,060 a random like sage fire, like we're just clearing it out. 474 00:31:17,060 --> 00:31:20,340 Yeah, I love that too. 475 00:31:20,340 --> 00:31:24,540 The clearing will get blown around the country. 476 00:31:24,540 --> 00:31:25,540 We need that. 477 00:31:25,540 --> 00:31:26,540 Absolutely. 478 00:31:26,540 --> 00:31:33,220 We need a massive sage fire post-election to be lit in the middle of the country and 479 00:31:33,220 --> 00:31:34,220 blow everywhere. 480 00:31:34,220 --> 00:31:35,220 I know. 481 00:31:35,220 --> 00:31:36,980 So that's the other thing too. 482 00:31:36,980 --> 00:31:44,060 It is very much kind of like a red state. 483 00:31:44,060 --> 00:31:49,820 But then at the same time, there's like lots of Gen Z people of color. 484 00:31:49,820 --> 00:31:53,460 And I'm like, okay, I kind of feel like this is a generational thing. 485 00:31:53,460 --> 00:31:54,460 Yeah. 486 00:31:54,460 --> 00:31:55,460 Yeah. 487 00:31:55,460 --> 00:31:56,460 Yeah. 488 00:31:56,460 --> 00:31:57,460 Here's hoping. 489 00:31:57,460 --> 00:31:58,460 Here's hoping. 490 00:31:58,460 --> 00:31:59,460 That it's generational. 491 00:31:59,460 --> 00:32:00,460 I don't think so. 492 00:32:00,460 --> 00:32:09,860 I mean, there's a million and one things I'm interested in and can talk about with psychology, 493 00:32:09,860 --> 00:32:16,020 but I feel like I gave the audience a good Samourga's board too. 494 00:32:16,020 --> 00:32:17,020 You did. 495 00:32:17,020 --> 00:32:23,140 I think I like to hear on unless there's anything else that's interesting to you, which you 496 00:32:23,140 --> 00:32:24,420 want to touch on. 497 00:32:24,420 --> 00:32:30,980 I actually do want to ask you, as I think more about this idea of balance and as this 498 00:32:30,980 --> 00:32:36,580 narrative is shifting around being a girl boss, what are your thoughts about being a 499 00:32:36,580 --> 00:32:39,180 woman and pursuing professional work? 500 00:32:39,180 --> 00:32:40,180 Okay. 501 00:32:40,180 --> 00:32:41,180 Wait. 502 00:32:41,180 --> 00:32:47,100 Can you give me the two sentence update on what the narrative shift is with being a girl 503 00:32:47,100 --> 00:32:48,100 boss? 504 00:32:48,100 --> 00:32:49,820 Just because you're up on this a little more than I am. 505 00:32:49,820 --> 00:32:57,700 I think for me, yeah, this is, I'm noticing this like cultural shift of people who are 506 00:32:57,700 --> 00:33:05,660 like, wait, wanting to be a girl boss is so like Sophia Amoruso early 2000s. 507 00:33:05,660 --> 00:33:11,060 Just for like older millennials who are able to like lean in and like get their spot at 508 00:33:11,060 --> 00:33:12,060 Facebook. 509 00:33:12,060 --> 00:33:15,060 We're, we're like Gen Z now. 510 00:33:15,060 --> 00:33:20,060 This like younger Gen Z crowd is kind of like, that doesn't exist for us anymore. 511 00:33:20,060 --> 00:33:24,700 And actually we're just kind of like being bullied to fall into like work culture that 512 00:33:24,700 --> 00:33:27,540 we don't love or necessarily agree with. 513 00:33:27,540 --> 00:33:35,500 And there's a massive need for like labor reform that is actually maybe specific towards 514 00:33:35,500 --> 00:33:39,680 like our biology. 515 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:43,780 Like some women like need a little bit more rest because our hormonal cycle is different. 516 00:33:43,780 --> 00:33:48,920 Like the work week is built around like men's bodies at times or like maybe the pressure 517 00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,940 to do it all is actually just like conditioning that doesn't fit in. 518 00:33:52,940 --> 00:33:57,140 So I think it's super personal, like depending on who you are. 519 00:33:57,140 --> 00:34:02,740 And then also me, I think like maybe sometimes I identify too much of being a hard worker 520 00:34:02,740 --> 00:34:09,460 because that's like a social, cultural conditioning thing. 521 00:34:09,460 --> 00:34:13,420 Whereas these days I'm like, I'm actually okay not being defined as a hard worker, but 522 00:34:13,420 --> 00:34:15,300 I have like value inherently. 523 00:34:15,300 --> 00:34:16,300 Yeah. 524 00:34:16,300 --> 00:34:17,300 Yeah. 525 00:34:17,300 --> 00:34:18,300 Oh my gosh. 526 00:34:18,300 --> 00:34:19,300 So many thoughts. 527 00:34:19,300 --> 00:34:20,300 So much to say on this. 528 00:34:20,300 --> 00:34:25,300 I mean, yeah, I think actually right now I'm in a pretty, I'm in a pretty, I'm in a pretty 529 00:34:25,300 --> 00:34:35,020 right now I'm in a pretty big state of confusion where on one side of things I've been receiving 530 00:34:35,020 --> 00:34:44,580 really second wave feminist arguments my entire life, especially, especially as a young girl. 531 00:34:44,580 --> 00:34:51,140 I went to an all girls school and in the early 2000s, it was still kind of a second wave 532 00:34:51,140 --> 00:34:59,540 feminist narrative of you can do anything, you know, your career, like women for the 533 00:34:59,540 --> 00:35:05,540 world go to the stars with your career, et cetera. 534 00:35:05,540 --> 00:35:09,460 Really emphasizing that and don't, don't let men get in your way. 535 00:35:09,460 --> 00:35:15,060 Don't let anything like that get in your way. 536 00:35:15,060 --> 00:35:21,420 And then, sorry, I think I have a lot of that fine, like hard, hardwired into me at the 537 00:35:21,420 --> 00:35:22,420 same time. 538 00:35:22,420 --> 00:35:29,100 Now I'm confronting life in a more real way and realizing things like, yeah, well actually 539 00:35:29,100 --> 00:35:36,740 a certain amount of hours, you know, maybe my, my body and spiritual core work better 540 00:35:36,740 --> 00:35:43,620 with a 30 hour work week than a 41 and maybe I want the balance to hit a little bit differently. 541 00:35:43,620 --> 00:35:49,820 And then maybe there are some things that I want to weave into my life. 542 00:35:49,820 --> 00:35:57,420 Like partnership that don't work 100% with the and partnership and caretaking and all 543 00:35:57,420 --> 00:36:03,540 the above that don't work perfectly with girl boss like working woman narrative. 544 00:36:03,540 --> 00:36:08,060 Yeah, like some of that can be kind of isolating. 545 00:36:08,060 --> 00:36:09,060 And I'm not gonna lie. 546 00:36:09,060 --> 00:36:14,460 Sometimes I'm like, I'm not, I'm okay, like actually getting distracted by like, 547 00:36:14,460 --> 00:36:19,580 someone who's like cute and nice and like add some spice. 548 00:36:19,580 --> 00:36:23,380 Completely so I think it's, I think it can breed a lot of confusion. 549 00:36:23,380 --> 00:36:27,300 And, and yeah, I mean, I have a lot of friends right now too, who are trying to unshackle 550 00:36:27,300 --> 00:36:33,500 from this narrative of hard work that you were kind of alluding to, to, you know, I've 551 00:36:33,500 --> 00:36:41,140 been taught, I've been trained my whole life by the society to shackle my self worth to 552 00:36:41,140 --> 00:36:42,940 how hard I work. 553 00:36:42,940 --> 00:36:49,180 But now I'm kind of discovering that that's not the be all end all of who I want to be. 554 00:36:49,180 --> 00:36:51,380 That's not what I personally value. 555 00:36:51,380 --> 00:36:53,980 It's just being a workhorse. 556 00:36:53,980 --> 00:37:03,100 So how can I, how can I live in this world that still does have those values and still 557 00:37:03,100 --> 00:37:04,100 be true to myself? 558 00:37:04,100 --> 00:37:08,820 Yeah, it's really hard problem to solve. 559 00:37:08,820 --> 00:37:09,820 Yeah. 560 00:37:09,820 --> 00:37:15,820 And I think in that equation too, there's, I think maybe some talks about partnership 561 00:37:15,820 --> 00:37:20,820 and like how partners can show up to like help ease that burden. 562 00:37:20,820 --> 00:37:22,820 Yeah, definitely. 563 00:37:22,820 --> 00:37:23,820 Definitely. 564 00:37:23,820 --> 00:37:27,220 Yeah, there's so much there, honestly. 565 00:37:27,220 --> 00:37:35,060 I mean, I think we're all figuring that stuff out in a sense, how to balance all these things. 566 00:37:35,060 --> 00:37:40,900 Yeah, that is kind of the beauty of like being in your late 20s, early 30s. 567 00:37:40,900 --> 00:37:42,820 It's like, well, I guess this is life. 568 00:37:42,820 --> 00:37:47,820 This is like figuring it out and like being true to yourself still. 569 00:37:47,820 --> 00:37:49,820 Saturn return tings. 570 00:37:49,820 --> 00:37:56,060 Yeah, my Saturn return is like, I think it's going to give me some gifts soon. 571 00:37:56,060 --> 00:37:57,820 The first he was giving me a few babies. 572 00:37:57,820 --> 00:38:00,820 Yes, you've had a big one. 573 00:38:00,820 --> 00:38:03,820 Yours was like right on time. 574 00:38:03,820 --> 00:38:04,820 Yeah. 575 00:38:04,820 --> 00:38:05,820 Yeah. 576 00:38:05,820 --> 00:38:08,580 I actually told my coworkers about this the other day. 577 00:38:08,580 --> 00:38:09,580 Have you seen these? 578 00:38:09,580 --> 00:38:10,580 Sony Angel BBs? 579 00:38:10,580 --> 00:38:11,580 No, my gosh. 580 00:38:11,580 --> 00:38:12,580 What are those? 581 00:38:12,580 --> 00:38:18,580 So this is a Sony Angel BB, but this is like a toy for adult women that was like invented 582 00:38:18,580 --> 00:38:24,300 by an adult woman in, I don't know, some Asian country. 583 00:38:24,300 --> 00:38:30,420 So basically the idea is like, you know, you maybe you don't want to have kids, but you 584 00:38:30,420 --> 00:38:33,180 love like cute, adorable things. 585 00:38:33,180 --> 00:38:34,780 And like maybe someday you'll have a kid. 586 00:38:34,780 --> 00:38:38,180 But right now, like this is a little baby you take with you everywhere. 587 00:38:38,180 --> 00:38:39,180 Yeah. 588 00:38:39,180 --> 00:38:42,180 Oh, I love that. 589 00:38:42,180 --> 00:38:43,180 Love it. 590 00:38:43,180 --> 00:38:44,180 Okay. 591 00:38:44,180 --> 00:38:45,180 Amazing. 592 00:38:45,180 --> 00:38:47,300 Well, I know we only have a couple minutes left. 593 00:38:47,300 --> 00:38:55,380 So thank you so much for joining us on the podcast today, Jane. 594 00:38:55,380 --> 00:38:56,380 Absolutely it was my pleasure. 595 00:38:56,380 --> 00:38:59,380 Thanks so much for having me. 596 00:38:59,380 --> 00:39:00,380 Yeah, of course. 597 00:39:00,380 --> 00:39:01,380 Okay. 598 00:39:01,380 --> 00:39:17,980 Thank you.