1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:07,600 Hey, this is Jules and welcome to the pool party. I have missed doing regular episodes so so so much. 2 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:14,320 I took a couple of weeks off of recording the podcast and there's a good reason for that. 3 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:22,640 I am relishing in the end of summer but before I really talk about that and what's been going on, 4 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:28,080 I wanted to give you a little bit of an outline for today's episode because it's actually super 5 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:34,800 relevant to what I've been up to, what I've been working on and what I want to talk about today. 6 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:39,680 If you're new to this podcast, my name is Jules and on the pool party, we talk about design 7 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:45,840 education, how to start a brand, basically bootstrapping and doing it yourself for 8 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:50,800 beginners. In the world of the internet, you can start a brand online, you can make a YouTube 9 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:58,160 channel, a TikTok and essentially market yourself by yourself. Now, I've been a brander, marketer 10 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:04,000 and content creator for many years now with a variety of experience in each of these sects 11 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:10,000 and what I've really determined is that I love helping other people and I think it's great if 12 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:15,760 you have an idea, you have the drive and consistency to get going. I'm here to help you with the 13 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:22,320 elements that are a little bit more in the hands or realm that you would leave to a professional. 14 00:01:22,320 --> 00:01:28,400 I'm going to say that very lightly because there's a lot of great free information online these days 15 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:34,880 but what I'm doing is bringing my years of experience, my tactical mind and strategy and 16 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:41,920 then also all the hours I spend on the internet today and talking with people to give you basically 17 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:49,040 a brief, a very in the moment lay down of how things are going in the design industry, what I see 18 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:56,160 online and how things are going in the world of social media. This is relevant because many of the 19 00:01:56,160 --> 00:02:04,560 jobs, formal jobs, I've done over the past four years since 2020 have been as a production artist 20 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:11,440 for social media agencies. If you have no idea what a social media agency is, they're essentially 21 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:19,440 most of the time these remote companies that are set up online, they function fully remote and they 22 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:26,000 work with client partners, companies, content creators and brands all in different capacities 23 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:34,320 to create content for social media channels from scratch and the goal is to keep audiences engaged. 24 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:42,400 It's to, for lack of a better phrasing, win the internet, to keep making content that keeps people 25 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:49,840 engaged, to understand audiences and mirror back to them what they believe themselves to be. I've 26 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:55,200 never actually phrased it that way before but that is what's working in the world of the internet 27 00:02:55,200 --> 00:03:02,480 these days. People no longer want to see brands marketing in a traditional sense. It's gross, 28 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:08,240 it's tacky, it feels overdone. However, I don't necessarily think that's true for individual 29 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:13,920 content creators and sometimes people love to see the little guy win so if you're just starting out, 30 00:03:13,920 --> 00:03:20,720 sometimes it helps to know some of these insights on branding, strategy, just to help give you a 31 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:27,760 leg up because let's be honest, starting anything by yourself in the beginning is challenging. 32 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:34,240 There's truly just a lot of mental work and thoughts, maybe even your own negativity bias 33 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:40,640 that you have to work against just to start a creative project, be consistent and keep on 34 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:47,440 going. It's one thing to show up and make a video for example one time but then to keep on doing it, 35 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:53,600 get better and then grow an audience is another task. That might be the case if you're taking on 36 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:59,040 the endeavor of becoming a content creator or making videos on YouTube for example but the same 37 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:05,040 thing applies if you're in the world of blogging, if you're making music, if you put on events, 38 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:12,240 not everything is the flow in the start. It takes mental work, mental fortitude and consistency 39 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:18,960 to keep on going. So what I'm doing here on this podcast is essentially serving as a cheerleader 40 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:24,560 to tell you to keep on going, absolutely keep on going and then I'm going to give you some insights. 41 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:30,480 I'm going to give you a little bit of a digest on what I see in the creative world, online, 42 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:38,880 freelancing, etc and that's what today's episode is going to be about. So today I'm going to talk 43 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:45,920 about passion projects, how I started designing through passion projects and I'm going to give 44 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:51,520 you some encouragement to start a passion project if that's what you want to do. The second thing is 45 00:04:51,520 --> 00:05:00,000 to essentially talk about the pink elephant in the room which is the state of the design market 46 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:08,720 and the job market mostly in the United States but many people I know in their 20s, 30s have been 47 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:16,560 impacted negatively in some form or shape over the past four years by layoffs, culture shifts 48 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:21,200 and maybe you're a designer, you work in the design industry or the tech industry and you want 49 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:26,080 to keep on going. It's not always easy. I've heard of people who've gone through multiple rounds of 50 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:32,160 layoffs but I know that's an ugly word to use. The second part of this podcast is going to be 51 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:39,280 about how to deal with uncertainty, how to keep your motivation up and then piggybacking, yes, 52 00:05:39,280 --> 00:05:45,840 off of that subject of passion projects in order to keep the good vibes going because that's a lot 53 00:05:45,840 --> 00:05:51,280 of what this is about, building structure and so later on in this podcast we're going to talk about 54 00:05:51,280 --> 00:05:58,480 building structure without truly killing your vibe in a 9 to 5 prison type of way and that's also 55 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:04,400 going to account for some factors that you might need to consider if you are starting a passion 56 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:10,880 project. So that's what today's episode is about. We're gonna dive in and before we start, I just 57 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:20,720 want to let you know that if you go to juliaespero.me, j-u-l-i-a-e-s-p-e-r-o.me, I offer 58 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:28,160 key art services for podcasters, musicians, writers and live events specialists. If you ever need help 59 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:34,640 with your key arts, you can hit me up. I'm offering a package on my website at the moment. You can go 60 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:40,240 to my website and look at services and if you've been looking for a designer to work with, if you 61 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:47,200 are specifically a musician, dj, podcaster, writer or live event specialist, please reach out. I would 62 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:53,360 love to work with you. If not, if you want to do this by yourself, by all means go ahead. I think 63 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:59,440 that's a fantastic idea and I've created this podcast to essentially help you on your journey. 64 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:05,920 So start from episode one. This is your big brand book and how to do it by yourself. Today, we're 65 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:11,600 getting away from that structure of discussing branding and how to bootstrap and we're going 66 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:18,320 more into the realm of okay, you've already started and now you need motivation to keep on going. I'm 67 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:24,400 so excited to dive in with you today on this episode of the pool party. Amazing. Now, as much 68 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:30,080 as I don't want to spend a ton of time talking about my personal design background, we're here 69 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:38,000 to talk about you. I want to start off this segment on passion projects by discussing a story about 70 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:45,440 how I got into making zines, which eventually led to my career in design. But the whole point of 71 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:51,920 my intro is to let you know that it's essentially discussed that passion projects are your creative 72 00:07:51,920 --> 00:08:00,720 playground. I started making zines when I was in college and back in 2016, maybe even earlier, 73 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:07,360 I was traveling back and forth between San Francisco and Brooklyn and both of those cities 74 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:14,080 had an independent book fair that I love that I believe still happens today called Printed Matter. 75 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:20,000 And at the Printed Matter book fairs, a bunch of indie publishers and graphic designers would 76 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:26,240 print their own booklets, create posters, and then sell them to people. And these books were like 77 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:33,600 some of the coolest, most visually interesting works I had ever seen in my life. And it really 78 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:41,360 got me thinking about how I as an independent person, my approach making a zine or something 79 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:47,280 I could pass around as an art project. I later ended up taking a graphic design class at school, 80 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:52,640 but oddly, they didn't really teach graphic design at all in this class. A lot of the time, 81 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:59,360 the professor spent the class talking about his own design projects, a lot of theory, 82 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:04,960 and then this is my beef with a lot of classes at Stanford too. I know I roll whenever I say 83 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:12,400 Stanford, but I promise you the downside of going to a research institution with any curiosity of 84 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:18,080 making projects, especially projects that require like a skill set. Sometimes the downside is that 85 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:24,880 you don't really learn that trade or that specific skill in a really actionable, instructable way. 86 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:30,480 And sometimes professors love to just talk about themselves. And so in this graphic design class, 87 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:36,960 we would get assignments, but we would be told to use Photoshop or Illustrator, but we would be given 88 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:43,600 basically no information on how to use Photoshop or Illustrator. So at the time we had a library 89 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:51,440 where I would go to and study, but they would also loan out iPads and Apple pencils. And it was 90 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:58,000 during this class that I fell in love with Illustrator for Adobe on the iPad. And before 91 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:04,640 I even knew how to design using a lot of the Adobe Photoshop speed, like Illustrator, InDesign, 92 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:11,360 Photoshop, I was basically hand drawing a lot of my work directly onto a tablet using this program 93 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:16,320 that I just taught myself how to use. And it was super easy too, because if you've never used an 94 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:21,360 Apple pencil and iPad before, you're basically just drawing, you're drawing digitally and it's 95 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:28,960 very easy. That was great for me because I could then create my zine. So I took a format, just a 96 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:35,920 one page zine, the kind that they used to pass around like in the 1960s, a really easy format, 97 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:40,960 it's one page, and then you just cut a slit in the middle and fold it up a certain way. And it's like 98 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:46,960 a mini magazine, but using what I had seen at these printed matter book fairs that I went to 99 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:54,240 and using the tech that I basically got from the library, I was able to make my first graphic 100 00:10:54,240 --> 00:11:01,200 design project without knowing really how to use any of the tools. And granted, I was a student at 101 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:07,680 the time, so I had resources that were available to me, but you really got to just use what you 102 00:11:07,680 --> 00:11:14,320 have available to you, especially when you're just starting out and don't discount any free resource. 103 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:20,560 If you have a friend who will let you borrow an iPad or let you play around on like their 104 00:11:20,560 --> 00:11:26,560 Canva subscription, try it out. There's a lot of free resources these days and that is like my whole 105 00:11:26,560 --> 00:11:34,240 spiel with this story. You can use many different tools to create things and surprise, there's no 106 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:41,200 one right way to do it. If you have good taste, time, and some patience, you can make something 107 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:47,360 pretty amazing with a lot of free tools that you find. And if you really care about your craft and 108 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:52,640 the work you do, a lot of times subscriptions will cost you maybe $30 a month or something. 109 00:11:52,640 --> 00:12:00,560 So give yourself some time, plan for that, and it's pretty easy to get off the ground with very 110 00:12:00,560 --> 00:12:05,520 little investment. But consider everything you have at first. If you don't have money, then maybe have 111 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:10,880 paper and magazines. If you're a musician, use the tools that you have. You don't need to learn how to 112 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:17,120 produce when you're just starting out. Don't go for the hard thing, go for what you have and start 113 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:23,120 there. So the whole point of passion projects is that they're meant to be a creative playground. 114 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:28,880 They start from a point of passion where you're genuinely interested in what you decide to pick 115 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:35,280 up. And from there, there are really no rules. There's no one you need to impress but yourself. 116 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:40,880 And that's the magic of this. Dive into what excites you and don't worry about where it might lead. 117 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:47,360 It's all about the fun and the learning process. This is so important whether you're just starting 118 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:53,520 out or you've been going for many years working on your craft. Eventually, there will be a time 119 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:59,440 where you have to show up and you might not have a lot of excitement, but you might have a lot of work. 120 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:06,480 And this is why passion projects are so important. You have to find a way to cultivate that interest 121 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:12,160 and then remember why you started or why you are getting started in the first place. It all starts 122 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:18,080 from a place of inspiration and whatever you create with your artwork in your time is going 123 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:24,720 to inevitably inspire someone else to pursue their passion. That's the beauty of this. Creativity 124 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:31,440 and growth, it's for you. It 100% is. But consequently, you're going to end up inspiring 125 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:37,680 someone else to make something. And I think that's pretty beautiful. So again, when you're making your 126 00:13:37,680 --> 00:13:44,080 passion project, there's no one to impress but you. And I think this is a great place to define 127 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:50,640 your passion project from because if you're working, you know, a lot of times if you have clients or a 128 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:56,560 boss, you need to impress them. And that is going to be the metric by which your work is defined. 129 00:13:56,560 --> 00:14:01,920 That isn't always self-fulfilling, but when you decide for yourself to take up a project, even if 130 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:06,800 you're not getting paid, even if the only thing you have to invest is your time, you get to work 131 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:13,520 up the courage to do something that gives you confidence, that reminds you what it means to 132 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:20,320 have fun. And it doesn't really matter what anyone else says. Do you like what you're doing? And I 133 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:27,760 think one of the ways to truly go the distance with a passion project is to just show up for a time to 134 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:34,400 create for fun and commit to that time. I think what this does is it also trains your brain to 135 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:40,560 recognize that sometimes you won't be motivated even for your passions. Like sometimes it's scary 136 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:47,680 to create things, to have fun even. Like our brains are wired to protect us, but that wiring 137 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:54,240 sometimes prevents us from trying new things that might lead to exciting outcomes because we don't 138 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:58,720 even start. One thing I've been working on is saying to my brain, thank you brain for trying 139 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:07,040 to keep me safe. And then I do the thing anyways. This happens a lot when I sit down to do illustration. 140 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:14,720 I'm really hard on myself and I think just to give you some context of where I'm at, sometimes I have 141 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:21,120 a really easy time creating in certain mediums, whether that's like my podcasts or designing for 142 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:26,400 work. But then when it comes to like my fun projects and just having a giggle, I for some 143 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:32,240 reason lock up. What I'm working on though is reminding myself that my brain works like a muscle. 144 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:37,200 I've had fun before in the work I've done and I can find it again. But the best way for me to do 145 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:43,200 that is to really take off the pressure, like basically let no one else judge it but me and 146 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:48,800 keep on going on a project until I find that like I've had fun and then that's good enough for me. 147 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:54,400 And I'm going to encourage you to take up a passion project, especially if you're a creative 148 00:15:54,400 --> 00:16:01,280 who's working and you've had a really tough time in this current job market. Shifting over to our 149 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:07,360 next segment, the economy sucks, but you don't have to. Okay, so let's take a little bit of time to 150 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:12,480 talk about the job market for designers and creatives now. I want to be so careful when I 151 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:17,760 say this, the economy sucks, but you don't have to. That whole part. Because this isn't some stop 152 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:24,640 being poor type of statement. Even if you have been trying really hard over the past four years, 153 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:32,560 many people who are so talented, hardworking, and just like exceptional people have had a hard go 154 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:39,840 of it. And I've explained a few times how I've been laid off over the past couple of years and 155 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:48,000 have basically found that my new jive is working part time for a few companies and doing design 156 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:54,000 freelancing. I know there are people out there who are still going through layoffs and I think what 157 00:16:54,000 --> 00:17:00,080 I want to say is I know how that can hurt your confidence and essentially get in the way of your 158 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:07,360 flow, but it's really not about you. You could be literally the most talented, amazing person. 159 00:17:07,360 --> 00:17:12,240 And if you're working for a company that just doesn't have their priorities straight, 160 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:18,880 or their values aligned, or they fail to plan for their, if they fail to forecast correctly, 161 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:24,000 that has nothing to do with you and you still might get laid off. So that's what I really mean 162 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:30,080 when I say the economy sucks, but you don't have to. It really has nothing to do with you. If you've 163 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:35,840 had a bad go at the job market and the creative industry over the past four years, especially 164 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:41,600 in a very traditional sense, don't be too hard on yourself. And it can be really scary and 165 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:48,880 frustrating, trust me, I know, but you might consider taking on something that's less hefty 166 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:55,440 than a full-time corporate job right now or even a full-time job at an agency and that doesn't say 167 00:17:55,440 --> 00:18:01,360 anything about you, it's just what is working at the moment. And I might be preaching to the choir, 168 00:18:01,360 --> 00:18:07,520 but I have a lot of friends, especially people in their 20s and 30s who have experienced multiple 169 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:15,600 layoffs over the past few years, have maybe been given job offers from companies who then decide 170 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:21,440 not to actually follow through with hiring them, or maybe they've been hired by some awesome new 171 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:27,600 company, but then said awesome new company falls apart in a few months. It happens all the time, 172 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:34,880 and realistically, sometimes it's actually a little bit more stable to take on less, take on 173 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:40,560 smaller bites, maybe even get a bridge job, like working part-time somewhere, and then building 174 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:46,320 something you care about on the side. There are definitely still opportunities out there, and I've 175 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:52,080 received contract opportunities even in this job market. I'm personally not even looking for 176 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:58,800 full-time roles in a corporate setting anymore because I got real with myself. I don't really 177 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:05,600 like working those types of jobs, and I'm not the only one in that sentiment, I know. I go onto 178 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:12,560 TikTok every single day, and I see recruiters who have been working in the industry for many years, 179 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:18,960 both tech and creative, and I think with the combination of things like the writer's strike 180 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:25,600 in LA, the delayed impact of COVID, a lot of things that were once stable staples are really 181 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:31,600 not that any longer. I follow some producers online, and what they're saying about Hollywood 182 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:38,880 and LA, for example, right now is that Hollywood is the new blockbuster, and basically what they 183 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:46,720 mean by that is blockbuster doesn't exist anymore. Everyone streams online, people go on TikTok, and 184 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:51,840 that's how they get their entertainment, and before we had things like Netflix, we used to go 185 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:57,920 to Blockbuster and get our VHS tapes and even our DVDs and Blu-rays, but obviously that's not a thing 186 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:04,560 anymore. So times are changing if you haven't noticed already, and sometimes the job market 187 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:11,200 responds a little bit delayed. A lot of things are going online, and it's probably no wonder that my 188 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:16,720 jobs as a professional designer have been in social media and online content creation over the 189 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:23,040 past four years. Hardly anyone hires me for print projects or posters anymore. I love those types of 190 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:30,880 projects, but oftentimes posters, print projects, those are like the indie projects that people 191 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:36,800 hold as their babies. Those are the projects you save up for just to sell fun because nobody, 192 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:43,120 genuinely, it's just not the type of environment or time anymore where these are the projects that 193 00:20:43,120 --> 00:20:48,320 are in abundance. You let me know if I'm explaining that correctly, but what I'm trying to say is that 194 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:54,800 I know it can be a lot to accept over the course of four years that the industry totally changed, 195 00:20:54,800 --> 00:21:01,200 especially if you haven't been in it or you've been on the periphery, but it truly has, and I think we 196 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:08,560 need to radically accept that things are the way that they are, and sure, we can mourn, but also 197 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:14,800 now that we know this, what do we want to do next? What do we want to do instead? Maybe you're not 198 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:20,560 feeling the pressure or you haven't been impacted by all this. In that case, consider yourself 199 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:28,320 lucky, but if not, hopefully this little snippet, this little touch base kind of gives you an insight 200 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:35,520 of what many ordinary people without connections are dealing with in today's job market. Even still, 201 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:41,920 I truly believe that it's cliche, but it's true. Persistence and continuous effort are the key to 202 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:47,680 finding opportunities, and you can put this same persistence and continuous effort into your 203 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:53,920 passion projects, and who knows? Your passion project might get you another job, or it could 204 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:59,680 potentially become your job. There have been many projects over the years that I've dedicated my time 205 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:05,920 to as if it's a part-time job, and if it didn't become another way of making revenue for me, it 206 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:13,280 became a very staple piece of my portfolio that I use to then get other jobs from different employers, 207 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:19,040 and that's why I recommend this, because it's a tried and true method, and I wouldn't really be 208 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:25,840 saying this for any other reason. Basically, as things are crumbling around you, like this old 209 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:31,920 economic system, this old way of doing things, find things that you like to do that you could handle 210 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:38,160 doing consistently and show up for yourself. Show up for that time, do what you have to do in order 211 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:44,160 to make your money, create that stability, and then carve out some time where you can play and 212 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:50,560 have fun, because that is essential. That is what dreams are made out of, and there's no way around 213 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:56,800 that. Genuinely ask yourself, if you are living your dreams, would you be doing stuff that you 214 00:22:56,800 --> 00:23:04,080 don't like? Would you be doing things very quickly and rushing and doing them consistently? No, right? 215 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:11,120 So what I've found over the years is that the only way to make your dreams come true is to essentially 216 00:23:11,120 --> 00:23:17,920 use the time that you have now, anytime, whether that's 15 minutes, 30 minutes, and investing that 217 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:24,000 towards something you love. And then over time, what happens is you allow that time to grow, 218 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:29,600 and before you know it, what was once a dream becomes your reality. It's simple, but it's not 219 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:34,800 easy. It really is that simple. This is especially true if maybe you're making a stable income from 220 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:40,640 something that is like a full-time job to you or a few part-time jobs, and you don't want to 221 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:46,400 disrupt your stability. I'm sure you still have 30 minutes here and there that you could train 222 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:53,200 yourself to use towards creating and doing something that you love. I think this takes mental effort 223 00:23:53,200 --> 00:24:00,320 and discipline to build up to. I know, not fun sounding, but you can genuinely just remind 224 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:06,320 yourself of what kind of life you're wanting to live and what you want to build, and then remind 225 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:11,920 yourself of that as you go into your bubble of creation, and eventually that bubble, that time 226 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:18,080 slot you have for your creative fun time will grow. It's keeping that faith and knowing you can make 227 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:25,440 that for yourself. All right, up next we want to talk about building structure without killing the 228 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:32,400 vibe, and I think the perfect segue into discussing this topic is a TikTok I literally just saw, 229 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:40,160 where this Genzier says that she was explaining to her older sister how she just got a job, 230 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:45,600 and her older sister said to her, congratulations, but don't forget about your other goals. 231 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:53,200 Yeah, so that's how it feels sometimes, I think especially when you have a corporate job, and even 232 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:59,600 if you happen to get a job where you're lucky enough to use your creativity and your skills 233 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:05,920 in a way that builds some sort of creative identity, maybe not even for you, but for other 234 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:13,120 people, I don't mean to scare anyone, and I hate the phrase adulting. I left a therapist once because 235 00:25:13,120 --> 00:25:18,080 they would not stop saying learning to adult because I just think that's ridiculous. I think 236 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:24,400 learning about how to deal with your finances and balance is one thing, but learning to adult is 237 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:30,640 just like one of those ridiculous phrases that means nothing. It's like a nothing phrase because 238 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:37,840 a lot of ways that people make money are basically made up, and reality is you can either handle it 239 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:44,880 and it jives with your working style and your brain and all the other things that you want to 240 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:50,240 achieve in life, or it doesn't. It doesn't work for everyone. Like I mentioned before, you might 241 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:57,520 already be working a job and then the way that you build your creative empire is, let's not call it 242 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:05,040 a creative empire, the way you build your creative bubble is on the side. I think if you ever did 243 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:12,000 extracurricular activities as a kid like ballet, sports, I was a dancer when I was growing up. 244 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:19,600 Tuesdays 8 p.m, Wednesdays 8 p.m, I would go to dance classes. Sometimes I would be in the studio 245 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:27,600 depending on how old I was for four hours in the evening just to dance. And for me, that was fun. 246 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:33,360 I wasn't doing it for money, but I set a goal for myself every single week to get better at that 247 00:26:33,360 --> 00:26:39,200 skill just because I was enjoying it. And I think that's exactly the type of energy we need to be 248 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:45,600 tapping into when we're pursuing something we love. This is not like a side hustle, and I think if 249 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:52,640 you approach every passion project you have as a side hustle from the get-go, it's gonna drain you 250 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:59,760 and it's also gonna be really hard to feel passion from it. And I just have to say, as a person who 251 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:05,200 has made the mistake of turning a lot of passions into a side hustle and also sometimes seeing my 252 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:11,280 friends do that, it's draining. It's not fun to experience, it's not fun to be around, it has the 253 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:18,160 opposite effect. So rather than trying to do that right away, just start from a place of having fun 254 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:24,880 and know that if you truly want to stick with this and if you do, a way will be made. That's the 255 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:32,320 element of faith. Some people, myself included, even hire coaches for specific career paths they 256 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:40,000 want to forge. And you can do that eventually, but until you have the capital to work on that, to put 257 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:44,880 in the time, until you have the strong enough belief to know that it's going to happen, there's 258 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:51,600 no shame in setting even smaller goals, exploring part-time gigs, giving yourself like 30 minutes 259 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:58,640 every single day just to dream. Let's start there. I want to tell you a story about my dad who is 260 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:05,360 retired now and he does not have to worry about finances, but he has a ton of time on his hands 261 00:28:05,360 --> 00:28:13,680 and also a really flourishing garden and he loves watching garden youtube. Recently, he's been on a 262 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:21,120 journey to create his own gardening youtube channel. I think he's a perfect example of someone who 263 00:28:21,120 --> 00:28:28,160 just needs to get started and honestly, this is a bit of a side narrative, but if you have a retired 264 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:35,360 parent who has a lot of time, they're the perfect type of person to pursue a creative outlet. They 265 00:28:35,360 --> 00:28:41,840 don't even have to monetize it, but something to think about, okay? I highly recommend it. Even now, 266 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:48,560 as a creative person who does this for my job, I freelance, I work part-time in-house or in 267 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:55,040 different capacities. I just, I do what feels good in the moment. I still pursue passion projects. I 268 00:28:55,040 --> 00:29:02,480 take classes on how to improve my drawing and my design skills. Sometimes, I see new techniques 269 00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:08,240 other people use and I want to learn how to do that. For me, that helps me maintain the beginner's 270 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:14,320 mindset. It helps me remember that not everything is easy at first and then sometimes it gets more 271 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:21,200 fun when you get further along the way. Passion projects can be fun and some people will have the 272 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:25,920 goal of eventually getting paid to do what they love. That might be you. Who doesn't want that? 273 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:33,280 But just keep in mind that not everything happens overnight. It really does take time to grow and 274 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:39,040 I've been hearing this a lot lately, but it really is true in that sometimes we can get such instant 275 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:46,080 gratification from swiping on our phones, getting the dopamine, but there is something about creating 276 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:50,960 that is a little bit more like going to the gym where sometimes it's not fun at first. Sometimes 277 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:56,160 it sucks. Maybe there's some thoughts in there. Wow, I should have gotten into the gym a while back 278 00:29:56,160 --> 00:30:02,400 and it can be hard to break through that wall, but once you do, it's quite fun. It's motivating. 279 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:07,600 Seeing the progress itself is the motivator. That's something to consider. Next thing you 280 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:13,600 might want to think about is flexibility and keeping the creativity flowing. Balance is maybe 281 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:20,640 a myth or an abstraction and I think that there are ways that you can actively be working towards 282 00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:27,920 goals and then actively resting. Everyone is different. I've known people who work in births 283 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:34,640 where maybe they're on tour for a month and a half because they're a dancer or five days out of the 284 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:40,560 week they're working at night because they're performers, they're musicians and then the rest 285 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:47,280 of the week they're sleeping in until 2 p.m. Balance might not always look like a 9 to 5 sort 286 00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:53,920 of balance, but one thing that I found really helps me is getting real with what feels good in my body, 287 00:30:53,920 --> 00:31:00,560 trying to create a repeat pattern that truly helps me feel good, rested, nourished, 288 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:07,520 and then taking care of my body on a daily basis but also finding cycles throughout the week and 289 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:13,680 the month where I can get appointments in like going to the doctor, going to the gym, maybe 290 00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:20,480 interspersing that exercise and taking care of my body in ways that aren't super structured but 291 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:26,640 integrated into my life. And I think this is also another component of creativity and passion 292 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:32,640 projects that is really important. I've had moments in my life where genuinely I was probably going 293 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:40,000 through a manic episode where I worked really hard on passion projects to almost a detriment 294 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:47,520 where I wasn't taking care of myself or my body as much as I was taking care of my artwork. 295 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:53,440 And one of the things that I had to shift as someone who uses my brain a lot is that my body 296 00:31:53,440 --> 00:32:00,480 and my health is like an art practice in itself and you might relate to this if you're a creative 297 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:06,960 person but I've noticed this sometimes that highly passionate individuals whether they're academics 298 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:16,240 or very driven sometimes people prioritize habits and routines around work and creating over 299 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:22,880 maintaining the body and certain necessary biological cycles. What does that mean? Most 300 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:29,440 women really need 10 hours of sleep a night. I'm sure you've heard that most men need around 8 301 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:36,160 hours of sleep a night. I genuinely feel that your body cannot really handle sleeping less than 6 302 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:42,480 hours a night for months on end and you will probably go through some period of, let me 303 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:48,960 phrase this, you will probably go through some period of having to recover if not face sickness 304 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:54,240 if you don't take care of your body. That's the simplest way I can describe it. And then dealing 305 00:32:54,240 --> 00:33:01,120 with sickness is a whole other thing. I think just to get ahead of that as you pursue your creativity 306 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:08,480 also pursue a way of maintaining longevity and I don't really think that any creative project 307 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:14,080 comes at the cost of health. Something to think about. I want to tell you another story about my 308 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:20,800 senior year of college when I was about to graduate and I didn't have a job lined up yet but it was 309 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:27,680 about winter to spring maybe like February and at the time I was actually working at the art library 310 00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:34,160 on campus and I love the art library because it was this beautiful building and had a lot of amazing 311 00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:41,680 books on photographers, fashion designers, graphic designers and so my job was being an art librarian 312 00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:46,880 where I would check people's books back in, reshelve the books and keep things orderly and 313 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:53,120 organized but in my free time or after I got off work I would get a bunch of books on different 314 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:59,680 topics and sometimes I would go through these like sleepless weekends of writing papers for other 315 00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:05,840 classes and I would do it at the art library but basically what this did was impact my mental health 316 00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:11,280 in a way. I wasn't really sleeping a ton or eating super well but I suppose you could say one of the 317 00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:16,880 good parts of this little manic episode was that I would get library books at the time that were 318 00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:22,480 only one type of color and you can call that whatever you want but would have these phases 319 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:29,200 of liking certain colors for example just to really tell you about like how deep this almost 320 00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:34,560 obsessive compulsion towards colors went. I would go through seasons where I was really interested 321 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:40,560 in the color green and then I dyed my hair forest green. I'd take all these photos of things that 322 00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:46,480 were green like plants and in the winter when it was colder then my hair would change to blue 323 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:52,000 and then I would continue this obsession with blue and then come spring my hair was like faded 324 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:57,120 and back to blonde but then I developed this obsession with the color orange and yellow and 325 00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:03,440 so as I was going through the art library I would grab books that were only binded with this really 326 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:10,320 distinct sunflower yellow and I got two books at the time one about the canon of work from 327 00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:17,120 Jean-Michel Basquiat and also Keith Haring and Keith Haring and Jean-Michel Basquiat were two 328 00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:23,600 notorious street artists who were really popular during the late 1980s to early 1990s in New York 329 00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:29,040 City and they both died young for a variety of reasons sickness, AIDS in the case of Keith 330 00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:36,640 Haring or drug overdose with Jean-Michel Basquiat and I don't really I don't romanticize early 331 00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:43,680 deaths of brilliant artists but I think I was obsessed with this idea of what made them rise 332 00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:49,200 to fame so quickly and then also meet an early demise and I do think there's a certain darkness 333 00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:55,120 that comes with this romanticization of throwing your whole life into artwork and producing. For 334 00:35:55,120 --> 00:36:01,040 example I am going to paraphrase but from what I remember about Jean-Michel Basquiat's life towards 335 00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:08,640 the end he had a very wealthy sponsor I think who was an older white woman who essentially gave him 336 00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:15,200 a space in SoHo to make his paintings and what he would do all day all night was make his paintings 337 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:23,520 and then also use drugs mostly like opioids and heroin. I think as an adult someone who is in my 338 00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:28,400 late 20s what I know about Jean-Michel Basquiat is that he did not make it to an old age and it 339 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:33,840 honestly makes me really sad to hear about these stories of young artists of color queer artists 340 00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:39,200 get taken advantage of by older people who essentially see an opportunity for this young 341 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:46,160 artist to make a lot of money and become a massive success overnight and then genuinely it costs these 342 00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:52,880 young people their lives and I think the more I've learned about pop culture and arts not just in that 343 00:36:52,880 --> 00:37:00,320 particular decade of the United States but even earlier like in the 1960s to 70s I read Just Kids 344 00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:06,240 by Patti Smith that same senior year and there's a lot of romanticization I think that other people 345 00:37:06,240 --> 00:37:12,320 project upon Patti's life and she was a woman who got pregnant at a really young age and then ended 346 00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:17,680 up having to put up her baby for adoption and then moved to New York by herself but she fell in love 347 00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:22,560 with a queer artist and then they lived life together essentially very poor and like always 348 00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:30,720 on drugs in New York but they basically face major health problems and also just trying to live life 349 00:37:30,720 --> 00:37:36,640 not really having stable income while being in New York and that was also a time where I feel like 350 00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:40,800 you could probably have gotten an apartment for a hundred dollars or something that's like unheard 351 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:47,200 of in today's economic terms but if that life was hard I think sometimes what I worry about is that 352 00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:51,680 there are a lot of young people who romanticize this idea of moving to New York and being young 353 00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:56,240 broke artists and the stakes are actually way higher these days but it's not just New York it's 354 00:37:56,240 --> 00:38:00,880 a lot of major cities around the US people work really hard to get in creative careers and even 355 00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:06,240 the most talented people have a hard time at it sometimes and that's not to discourage you from 356 00:38:06,240 --> 00:38:12,080 pursuing a creative career but it is to discourage you if you are a young person from romanticizing 357 00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:17,440 this idea of being a young broke artist there is a reason why that is a trope and I think it's 358 00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:24,080 because sometimes older wealthier people who know better truly exploit young and talented people 359 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:30,000 and this is why I always encourage people to pursue their passions on their own if they want 360 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:36,960 to have a creative career because this idea like sponsorship of sponsoring a young strappy talent 361 00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:44,080 has been around basically forever and the fortunate thing about being in the year 2024 is that you can 362 00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:49,840 in the safety of your own home or your hometown pursue your creative talents by just putting aside 363 00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:56,560 some time and then consistently posting online in order to vet people who want to work with you 364 00:38:56,560 --> 00:39:01,680 who might be able to help you and there's no rush there's truly no rush going the slow route 365 00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:07,280 especially if you are a young person in your early 20s and there's only a lot of benefit to taking 366 00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:13,520 the time to mature and develop and maybe even get like a part-time job in a few different industries 367 00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:17,680 and I'm not saying you have to work restaurant jobs I think you know that's also another trope 368 00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:23,680 that we saw in the early 2000s of artists moving to cities like New York or LA and then working in 369 00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:28,800 restaurants while they were auditioning or trying to learn their craft and there's merit in that 370 00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:33,440 sure but it's not necessarily that's the blueprint and that's what you have to do 371 00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:37,920 that's why I think challenge yourself to be creative and find what works for you but in the 372 00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:45,200 sense that you can do it with the most amount of ease for you and also consistency and discipline 373 00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:50,480 because at the end of the day a lot of this is work when you're making money too we're talking 374 00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:56,240 about contracts and deals we're talking about like legal agreements in exchange for money or 375 00:39:56,240 --> 00:40:01,920 we're talking about informal trades and there's a cost-benefit analysis to be done between those 376 00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:06,640 two things and I just want to throw that on your radar especially if you are a young person trying 377 00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:11,360 to break into the industry because a lot of people will not put it that simply in those terms but 378 00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:17,680 that's what it is. Alright folks so let's get back to the topic of passion projects and maybe I shared 379 00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:24,800 an extreme example of what happens when people capitalize too hard on their art but I think this 380 00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:30,480 all goes to say that this is why it's important to create from a place where you truly love what 381 00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:38,240 you're doing and I think passion projects can help keep you on course and also remind you of why 382 00:40:38,240 --> 00:40:44,240 it's fun to do the work that you're doing. Passion projects can be your secret weapon letting you 383 00:40:44,240 --> 00:40:49,680 experiment make mistakes and figure out what you really love doing. You can learn new skills and 384 00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:56,480 eventually get paid to do what you love and from there on it's essentially a never-ending cycle 385 00:40:56,480 --> 00:41:02,240 of learning and growing. Remember to keep it flexible and light in order to keep your creativity 386 00:41:02,240 --> 00:41:08,000 flowing. It's so important to stay flexible enough to follow new ideas and opportunities. 387 00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:12,720 In this podcast, I talk a lot about exercises like mood boarding and staying connected with 388 00:41:12,720 --> 00:41:19,360 other creatives in order to keep the inspiration coming from other sources that aren't just online. 389 00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:25,120 It's important to take baby steps and then also recognize that this isn't the type of work that 390 00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:31,680 you get done in a weekend and are just simply done with. This is life's work and I think that if 391 00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:38,800 you're doing it correctly, you'll leave enough time to truly take in life outside of putting your 392 00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:45,600 nose to the grindstone and just producing to produce. So in conclusion, I want to hear if you 393 00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:52,080 started any passion projects that you love that have helped you learn a new skill, what they 394 00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:58,640 entailed, and if they helped you get new work or if it's just a fun hobby that you do in your free time. 395 00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:03,600 I personally love seeing and hearing about other people's passion projects and sometimes I'm more 396 00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:09,120 inclined to listen and give them my attention just because I want to hold space for things that 397 00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:17,360 people truly care about and not get bogged down by the type of content and work that is made just to 398 00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:24,240 essentially fill a void. If you're experiencing the current job market for art and creativity or 399 00:42:24,240 --> 00:42:31,280 design, keep on going. Perseverance is key and maybe also take a step back. Designing and creating 400 00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:37,360 art for full-time living isn't everything. I know that might be hard to hear especially if you've 401 00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:44,720 been looking for a full-time role but if things are going to change, if careers are restructuring 402 00:42:44,720 --> 00:42:51,600 and the landscape is shifting, it's honestly, in my opinion, worth it to wait for things to settle a 403 00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:57,840 bit and then jump in during a time where there's a bit more enthusiasm. I think one thing that people 404 00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:04,800 fail to mention at times during hard times is that a job, while it's great and is a way of making 405 00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:11,760 money, it can be just that and it doesn't have to really accomplish all the things for you and I 406 00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:16,320 think that's why I wanted to talk so much about carving out space through the things that you 407 00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:25,280 really love so that you can hone in on that purity of enjoyment and love and not ask a single position 408 00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:31,360 to fulfill all your human needs. Anyways, thank you everyone for hanging out today and in the 409 00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:37,520 next episode, I will be interviewing my friend Marlon who is a designer living in LA and he 410 00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:42,800 started his career as a graphic designer during the pandemic. Previously, he was a product designer 411 00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:47,360 and I'm going to ask him a bit about how he feels about being online these days and we're going to 412 00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:52,560 chat about finding inspiration out in the world. So I hope to see you around next week for that 413 00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:58,880 episode. Please subscribe and follow The Pool Party, read it wherever you listen to podcasts and if 414 00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:03,840 it inspired you today, please share it with a friend. My name is Jules and you can find my work 415 00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:10,880 at juliaspero.me, that's J-U-L-I-A-E-S-P-E-R-O.ME. I'll see you next time.