1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,200 Hi friends, this is Jules and welcome to the pool party. 2 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:08,200 I'm really excited to share this episode with you today. 3 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:17,480 It is a topic I hold very near and dear to my heart and it's something that I have been 4 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:22,560 talking to other people about lately, whether they're designers or they're starting their 5 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:27,160 own company, firms, and want to hire designers. 6 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:32,080 And this episode is going to be on how to work with designers. 7 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:38,040 We've been talking about branding, design, how to create an artist's persona, launch 8 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:42,640 yourself as a DIY artist, entrepreneur, etc. 9 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:48,960 I have done a variety of all of these things and helped many people create their branding, 10 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:56,560 websites, and outreach for any of these particular tasks and let me tell you, it's a lot. 11 00:00:56,560 --> 00:01:00,720 And it's fun, it definitely is fun, but it is work. 12 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:07,680 And ultimately, I believe this is why being a designer is such an important skill to have. 13 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:11,040 There's a lot of different design roles out there. 14 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:16,520 And ultimately, when you're taking on the task of creating your own project and directing 15 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:20,400 it, you're eventually going to need to hire designers. 16 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:26,160 So today we're going to talk about the capacity in which you can hire designers, when to do 17 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:34,640 it, where to find designers, and the experiences I've had working with agencies both as a 18 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:38,600 designer and as someone who has hired agencies. 19 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:42,720 I might also tell you some of my thoughts I have on Fiverr. 20 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:48,600 Is it good or is it not? 21 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:56,080 So let's go ahead and dive in and get into the broader topic of hiring other designers 22 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:59,840 and the capacity in which designers could work for you. 23 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:05,640 So if you're hiring a designer, we're going to assume that you have projects already. 24 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:09,640 There are a few ways you can hire designers and we're going to talk about the types of 25 00:02:09,640 --> 00:02:15,100 contracts first because these are going to come in handy later when we discuss types 26 00:02:15,100 --> 00:02:18,160 of tasks you might need to hire a designer for. 27 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:20,120 So there are a few capacities. 28 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:24,200 There's freelance, contract, part-time, and full-time. 29 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:29,960 Depending on who you are and what kind of business you have, that'll mostly determine 30 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:33,560 the capacity with which you can work with a designer. 31 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:39,040 The other thing to consider is how much money you're making, essentially what kind of design 32 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:47,060 work you have, and how consistent you can be in delivering design work to a designer. 33 00:02:47,060 --> 00:02:54,640 If you are just starting out, let's say that you need a project-based branding or you have 34 00:02:54,640 --> 00:02:59,440 a little extra design work that you could pass off to a designer, chances are you want 35 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:02,280 to work with someone freelance. 36 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:09,200 And in a freelance position, this person essentially signs on with you for a contract. 37 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:10,580 And there are two ways to do this. 38 00:03:10,580 --> 00:03:14,640 You could hire someone hourly or project-based. 39 00:03:14,640 --> 00:03:21,120 The average, I would say, pay rates for a brand spanking new designer. 40 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:25,640 A lot of projects start at $25 an hour. 41 00:03:25,640 --> 00:03:30,840 And you can kind of do an estimate of how many hours you think your project will take. 42 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:35,560 For newer designers, sometimes projects take them a bit longer. 43 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:40,560 And so I would factor that in, maybe add like an extra 10 hours in there. 44 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:45,120 And when you're going with your more experienced mid-weight designers, rates usually start 45 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:49,200 at 60 and go upwards of $100. 46 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:53,160 Depending on who you're working with and what kind of skills they have, you're also 47 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:55,640 going to be paying even more of a premium. 48 00:03:55,640 --> 00:04:01,000 Now I mentioned earlier that you can hire for hourly or project-based work. 49 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:06,060 And I would say definitely figure out what kind of project you have first. 50 00:04:06,060 --> 00:04:11,380 Sometimes it's easier to hire people project-based, and I'd say that if someone has typical 51 00:04:11,380 --> 00:04:17,840 experience with a certain project, they have success completing a project outlined like 52 00:04:17,840 --> 00:04:22,280 you have, they've done it many times before, it might be pretty safe to hire them on a 53 00:04:22,280 --> 00:04:24,480 project basis. 54 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:27,980 And also consider how long that project is going to be. 55 00:04:27,980 --> 00:04:33,760 For hourly, if your project is even smaller, I'd say hourly makes a lot of sense because 56 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:37,760 you can kind of cap your budget as well. 57 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:42,080 So if you only have a certain amount of money, let's say that you want to get it started, 58 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:43,840 you can start your project hourly. 59 00:04:43,840 --> 00:04:48,720 Now talking about part-time and full-time, if you have way more budget to regularly work 60 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:53,280 with a designer, you're going to want to consider part-time and full-time employment. 61 00:04:53,280 --> 00:05:00,280 I don't really have too much to say about these two because many agencies, startups, 62 00:05:00,280 --> 00:05:05,320 small businesses do hire part-time and full-time designers, and the variety of roles that they're 63 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:08,720 hiring for are quite a lot. 64 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:13,920 And I would say that if you feel like you need to hire part-time or full-time, ideally 65 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:20,040 you have consistent work coming in that you can pass off to a designer, and ultimately 66 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:27,520 you can afford their salary, you have enough runway for yourself to pay them, and you have 67 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:30,560 income or at least some sort of capital. 68 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:35,800 So we've been mainly focusing on the DIYers as we talk about this branding, this whole 69 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:41,960 branding genre in this task, so we're going to focus mostly on freelance contracts and 70 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:43,880 part-time throughout this episode. 71 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:49,960 Onto the next topic, I think it'll be particularly helpful to delve into this discussion of when 72 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:52,080 to hire a designer. 73 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:53,680 So when do you hire a designer? 74 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:58,000 I mentioned this before, but you definitely want to make sure that you have regular design 75 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:03,760 work coming in, and I'll give you an example of times that I've hired designers in the 76 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:04,760 past. 77 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:10,440 I've hired designers in the past even as a designer when I had so much design work 78 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:16,440 coming in that I couldn't possibly do the amount of design work that I had in a day 79 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:19,760 by myself, and then I needed to hire an assistant. 80 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:25,200 Hiring a designer also works if you are building a business and the majority of your day-to-day 81 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:31,400 tasks, the ones that bring in money, that bring in revenue, are what are on your plate 82 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:36,760 and you simply don't have the time to do the branding or the projects, and then you 83 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:38,320 might need to hire a designer. 84 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:44,560 So I think these are probably the two examples I see most often when people are hiring for 85 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:50,360 designers, and there might be a lot of different scenarios that fall outside of this, but I 86 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:54,800 highly recommend a few things before you hire your designer. 87 00:06:54,800 --> 00:07:00,400 You want to know what deliverables you will need, you want to create a project brief, 88 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:05,480 and then also find examples you like in order to show your designer the work that you want 89 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:06,720 to create. 90 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:11,460 And ideally, I have some branding exercises in this podcast. 91 00:07:11,460 --> 00:07:17,440 You can listen to the big episode on brand values and coming up with branding. 92 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:20,940 It's good to know a sense of style that you like. 93 00:07:20,940 --> 00:07:25,240 If you've been making revenue and you're totally starting from scratch on the branding 94 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:30,520 front, it might be a good idea to hire a branding person to get this done for you, but seriously 95 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:38,080 I said this many times, I really, truly do not recommend this unless you are making revenue 96 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:40,880 and you can justify the cost. 97 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:46,000 If this is not the case and you're starting out and you just want branding to look official, 98 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:51,920 I highly recommend you do an exercise on services and projects that you could offer for other 99 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:58,880 people and try to get started without a cohesive branding, because I've said this many times, 100 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:05,160 but branding is simply a representation of what you do, is ultimately not the work you 101 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:10,520 will do unless you are a brand designer, in which case my assumption might be that you 102 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:15,120 could put together a pretty simple brand package in order to start working. 103 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:20,440 So here are some mistakes I see made when people hire designers. 104 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:25,580 Thanks to websites like Upwork and Fiverr, there are many people out there who offer 105 00:08:25,580 --> 00:08:31,320 one-off services for projects or hourly rates for designers. 106 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:37,680 Sometimes I see folks hire designers and they don't necessarily know what they want to create. 107 00:08:37,680 --> 00:08:44,520 And then from there, I think the issue with that is you're placing a lot of room for interpretation 108 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:45,520 on the table. 109 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:50,960 It gives the designer this burden of figuring out what you need and that's okay if you're 110 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:53,400 paying them an hourly rate. 111 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:59,240 However, it's also not ideal for you if you're limited on cash and you could just spend some 112 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:04,100 time, some of your time figuring out what you want and doing a bit of research. 113 00:09:04,100 --> 00:09:08,480 It's also going to help you be a bit smarter in working with your designers and you wouldn't 114 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:14,760 believe that if people who end up hiring a designer for marketing materials or a website 115 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:19,160 and then they just don't have a project brief put together, therefore the designer spends 116 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:26,440 quite a bit of time, weeks sometimes, working on a very vague description of a project someone 117 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:31,520 gave them, but then once they get to a meeting to discuss a project and show what they've 118 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:35,000 been working on, there's a misalignment. 119 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:40,600 And I think this misalignment sometimes causes a lot of anxiety for designers and it also 120 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:45,840 causes frustration and disappointment in the people who hire designers. 121 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:51,000 But I do believe that relationships, even working relationships, are a two-way street 122 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:57,000 and the best way to get into them with success is being prepared beforehand. 123 00:09:57,000 --> 00:10:02,480 Knowing your communication style and how you like to communicate with a designer and having 124 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:07,040 very clear project deliverables that you would like to see by the end. 125 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:11,840 So if you're just starting out, I really do not expect you to know how long a project 126 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:19,040 will take to make or how much high touch you might need with a particular designer. 127 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:24,400 When you're hiring, it's also going to vary on the experience that your designer has, 128 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:30,400 how long they've been working, if they're working on other projects, and if you've 129 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:32,400 worked with this person before. 130 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:36,960 Some people have a working relationship with designers that they've worked with in other 131 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:44,920 capacities and due to already having a built relationship with this person, sometimes the 132 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:50,880 project goes a bit more smoothly and you can clear up expectations easily. 133 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:56,720 I do have some thoughts, however, on working with friends, especially in a design capacity 134 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:01,120 as a designer or hiring other designers who are friends. 135 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:07,460 And I genuinely do not recommend this unless you know someone who has been working for 136 00:11:07,460 --> 00:11:10,200 many years as a designer. 137 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:18,080 The reason why I think this is the case is because I think that it's hard to have boundaries 138 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:21,160 in roles where you work with friends. 139 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:26,440 And I would say this for any type of service unless it's extremely specific, you know what 140 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:33,240 you're delivering, you're excited about the work you're going to do, and you feel like 141 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:36,080 you're the best person for the job. 142 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:43,160 It's because oftentimes, even if you have a great brief put together and you can explain 143 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:48,880 to your designer clearly what you want them to work on, and even if they have great work, 144 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:55,960 there's many times where I see people work with their friends and any sort of misalignment 145 00:11:55,960 --> 00:12:03,160 could potentially get in the way of a friendship that turned into a working relationship. 146 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:08,780 And in my opinion, I don't feel like that's a risk that is necessary to take. 147 00:12:08,780 --> 00:12:15,260 I would suggest even asking your design friends for other recommendations of designers they 148 00:12:15,260 --> 00:12:20,860 know and that one degree of separation is going to help. 149 00:12:20,860 --> 00:12:24,560 Because I'll be honest with you, there's a lot of moving pieces when you work with 150 00:12:24,560 --> 00:12:30,600 a designer and you might like someone's work and style, but a lot of times, sometimes designers 151 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:33,640 do many different types of artistic work. 152 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:39,040 And while the sentiment is nice of wanting to hire someone for a project, if that's 153 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:44,400 not a service they regularly offer, what I see happening is designers are put on the 154 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:51,400 spot to create a service and if that's not something that they regularly do, it can be 155 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:56,880 an unnecessary use of time and then quite a gamble. 156 00:12:56,880 --> 00:13:02,360 And so ultimately, that's up to you and I think this can work out in certain capacities, 157 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:10,520 but I think in today's job market and with the pace that design moves, it's really important 158 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:17,400 to keep this in mind and consider how you value your friendships when you get into working 159 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:18,520 with someone. 160 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:24,200 And you can work with so many designers these days just by getting connected online unless 161 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:29,780 someone really asks to work with you and they feel like it's a great fit, I would avoid 162 00:13:29,780 --> 00:13:31,160 working with friends. 163 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:35,680 So let's get a little bit deeper into talking about creating a project brief because I think 164 00:13:35,680 --> 00:13:41,440 creating a project brief is essential and can help to prevent some of this miscommunication 165 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:43,840 that I have highlighted. 166 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:47,080 So a project brief, what is a project brief? 167 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:53,480 A project brief is essentially a document, you can write it anywhere, but it's supposed 168 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:59,960 to be an outline of what exactly you need from your project, what's expected and what 169 00:13:59,960 --> 00:14:02,240 the goals of the project are. 170 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:08,400 I will give you some examples of projects you could have a brief for, making a poster, 171 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:12,920 creating a pitch deck, making a mug, making a website. 172 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:17,480 Inside your brief, you're essentially going to name the deliverable that you're going 173 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:23,280 to need created and in this example, we're going to use a poster. 174 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:25,960 You want to be as specific as possible. 175 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:28,600 Okay, you need a poster. 176 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:30,520 What is the poster for? 177 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:32,680 Is it promoting an event? 178 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:36,380 What dimensions does the poster need to be? 179 00:14:36,380 --> 00:14:40,000 What type of paper is it going to be printed on? 180 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:42,960 Where is the poster going to be posted? 181 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:43,960 What's the goal? 182 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:50,080 This might sound like overkill, but I would even say give the exact text you need to the 183 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:55,440 designer with what the poster is going to say and the reason why I encourage you to 184 00:14:55,440 --> 00:15:02,400 do this is because the worst thing you can do is give a designer some vague text of what 185 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:07,200 you want designed on a poster and then say it will change later and then assume that 186 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:13,960 the poster is going to look the same or promise you it will not and it's basically like doubling 187 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:14,960 the work. 188 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:21,600 Not only is it frustrating, there is a cost to this and it's not just a monetary cost. 189 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:26,880 I think there is a creative cost in not respecting the design process. 190 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:33,000 Knowing that you're going to have to redo work later, I think causes many designers in 191 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:39,880 the industry today to reduce the quality that they give on the first round if they know 192 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:44,640 that a client is apt for changing their mind. 193 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:51,960 It kind of degrades this trust or value that I feel that designers kind of inherently have 194 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:56,160 towards their work and how someone might perceive their work. 195 00:15:56,160 --> 00:16:02,280 And again, I think that cost shows in the final product of the deliverable. 196 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:07,440 So yes, when you ask someone to design a poster for you, it doesn't matter if it's for a 197 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:14,640 conference or for your buddy's late night after party, have everything exactly in a 198 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:19,320 text document as you would need it on the poster and give it to your designer. 199 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:28,960 So that might include the title of the event, the date, the time, the theme, any subtext, 200 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:35,760 any showtimes, any social media handles, websites or contacts that you want to include on the 201 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:37,200 poster. 202 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:42,800 And don't be afraid to include a lot if there's anything that you truly do not need later 203 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:43,840 on. 204 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:48,760 It's much easier to remove than it is to add more. 205 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:55,680 I'll say that again, it's much easier to remove extra text than it is to add more, especially 206 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:58,200 when you're designing something like a poster. 207 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:03,120 I know it might not seem like a lot, but there's some really intricate and cool design you 208 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:09,520 can do, especially with grid systems and posters, but it only really works if you know that 209 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:11,640 you have all the information. 210 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:16,800 There are times where I would really love to design a super cool poster for someone, 211 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:21,840 but if they're being kind of wishy washy with me and not giving me all the information, 212 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:25,080 it makes me feel like, okay, they're just going to change it later. 213 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:29,800 And then I can't really put in my full effort on this first round. 214 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:35,800 In my opinion, I think that this is really harmful to the design process and a lot of 215 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:42,600 design work out there would be a lot better if people, again, just had the specific information 216 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:47,240 that they needed printed and designed beforehand. 217 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:53,640 And if they had an idea of what kind of brand aesthetic that they wanted to go for. 218 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:58,200 And again, for things like posters, you don't always need to have your branding totally 219 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:05,120 done before you give someone a brief for a poster project. 220 00:18:05,120 --> 00:18:09,920 Sometimes posters and events can even have their own branding. 221 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:15,200 And if you keep the font relatively simple, or if it really makes sense for the event, 222 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:17,200 I'd say that it's passable. 223 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:20,760 Not everything really has to be like so matchy matchy. 224 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:27,920 But if you're a big brand with a defined branding package, I would say yes, absolutely 225 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:30,200 give that to your designer. 226 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:37,800 Make sure they have your fonts, your logo, and any other rules about your brand that 227 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:39,640 they might need to have. 228 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:42,920 You don't necessarily need to give a full on brand book. 229 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:50,680 But if for example, there are hard dos and don'ts with your brand, those are worth mentioning. 230 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:58,480 I think having really specific but rich information before starting a project is really useful 231 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:00,120 as a designer. 232 00:19:00,120 --> 00:19:03,120 And you don't need to go overkill. 233 00:19:03,120 --> 00:19:08,760 I think that sometimes folks want to give a lot of marketing data when it comes to doing 234 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:10,560 design deliverables. 235 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:12,760 But your designer doesn't really need that. 236 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:15,280 I'd say your marketing person does. 237 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:19,440 And it's helpful to know what the competition is doing. 238 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:24,600 But the designer should really just be focusing on communication. 239 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:27,280 What is the goal of this poster? 240 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:28,400 What are we trying to do? 241 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:31,280 What are we trying to communicate about this event? 242 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:32,680 What is the vibe? 243 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:35,600 What do we want to get people excited about? 244 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:42,520 I think it's ultimately going to be most helpful and successful if your designer is just thinking 245 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:48,200 about how this poster is going to look, if it's communicating what it should, and if 246 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:54,200 the information that people need in order to attend the event or communicate about it 247 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:55,920 is on the poster. 248 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:59,960 That doesn't always mean making logos massive. 249 00:19:59,960 --> 00:20:05,840 There are many times where I design work, whether that's advertisements for social 250 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:11,720 media or posters, where I hear people ask to make their logo bigger. 251 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:16,480 And frankly, I think that logos are great, you know, they communicate who you are, what 252 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:23,440 your brand is, but they don't always take precedent for what should be focused on for 253 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:25,760 something like an event poster. 254 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:32,120 So keep this in mind and let your designer have some fun and make simple choices as they 255 00:20:32,120 --> 00:20:34,080 design for you. 256 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:38,200 And if they're a good designer, they can defend them well, and I'm sure they will convince 257 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:41,180 you that it's actually a good idea. 258 00:20:41,180 --> 00:20:45,640 So we all have different perspectives, and that's why I think it's important to go in 259 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:49,840 and giving your designer all the important information and goals and, you know, things 260 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:53,680 like knowing what kind of paper you're going to print on and the dimensions. 261 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:56,680 I think these are just basics. 262 00:20:56,680 --> 00:21:02,580 Designers can't set up a document and even start designing if they don't have those things. 263 00:21:02,580 --> 00:21:04,640 And so keep that in mind. 264 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:10,400 And you would be surprised at the amount of people who expect someone to really just create 265 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:13,760 something amazing without having the information. 266 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:21,920 As designers, we're trained many times, like from school, at an early stage as a designer 267 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:25,640 to get as much information as possible. 268 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:31,240 And in the world today where people are busy, they're very reticent or unwilling to give 269 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:35,760 more information and the design ultimately suffers. 270 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:42,380 It's wasted time, wasted money, and I think it degrades a working relationship that could 271 00:21:42,380 --> 00:21:49,800 just be improved upon by this simple communication and creating a good template for a brief. 272 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:54,940 And if you know that you're going to need a lot of design work, just make a simple template 273 00:21:54,940 --> 00:21:57,720 on Google Docs. 274 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:00,100 Make it as simple as possible. 275 00:22:00,100 --> 00:22:06,360 Have the objective at the top, the type of deliverable you'll need, the dimensions, what 276 00:22:06,360 --> 00:22:09,120 kind of product this is going to be printed on. 277 00:22:09,120 --> 00:22:13,600 If you know the printer you're going to use or who's going to print it, put that on there 278 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:14,600 as well. 279 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:19,760 And this is going to change depending on what kind of deliverable you're asking for. 280 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:25,120 But these first few things I mentioned will relatively stay the same unless we're talking 281 00:22:25,120 --> 00:22:26,120 about digital work. 282 00:22:26,120 --> 00:22:30,920 And in that case, you would just mention all the information about the digital work that 283 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:32,540 you need done. 284 00:22:32,540 --> 00:22:35,560 If that's a website where it's going to be hosted. 285 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:40,960 If it's a social media ad, where it's going to be posted. 286 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:46,040 Instagram stories, Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook ads. 287 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:52,580 Sometimes these dimensions change and it's not always easy or good to assume that your 288 00:22:52,580 --> 00:22:56,520 designer will know what the dimensions are. 289 00:22:56,520 --> 00:23:00,640 And again, they could be thinking of something totally different. 290 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:06,040 A lot of designers work on multiple tasks, multiple projects throughout the day, especially 291 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:08,480 if they're a working career designer. 292 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:16,080 And to just assume that your project is the number one top of mind is, I think, frankly 293 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:18,300 an error in judgment. 294 00:23:18,300 --> 00:23:22,020 And it's one that will show in the finished product. 295 00:23:22,020 --> 00:23:27,520 So again, design is a working relationship and the finished product I think has a lot 296 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:33,400 to do with respecting the working relationship and what it takes to create a successful design 297 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:34,400 product. 298 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:38,840 Next, we'll talk a little bit more about these working relationships and where to find 299 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:43,640 a designer and how to set up a process of working together. 300 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:45,700 That's coming up in this next bit. 301 00:23:45,700 --> 00:23:49,960 At this point in the podcast, I wanted to take a break and let you know that this month 302 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:54,040 I've created several episodes on branding and design. 303 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:59,560 And if this is the first episode you're listening to, feel free to check out the pool party 304 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:04,840 and see the episodes I have up on Spotify and on the RSS feed. 305 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:10,600 I have been seeing a lot of work these days out in the wild that is essentially poorly 306 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:11,920 designed. 307 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:17,520 There are a lot of free tools out there these days, especially with AI, where people can 308 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,840 make some pretty twisted dark fantasies. 309 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:26,400 And while these tools are powerful, the best design is often simple. 310 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:32,880 And as a designer can tell you, it's still pretty challenging at times to convey all 311 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:37,800 the information that is needed to be conveyed, even with some of our most powerful tools 312 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:44,620 like Photoshop and some of the process of design is knowing when to peel back, when 313 00:24:44,620 --> 00:24:46,720 to use restraint. 314 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:52,840 My hope is that people continue to use tools to empower their work and communicate what 315 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:54,800 they need to communicate. 316 00:24:54,800 --> 00:25:02,480 But I also see that with more availability of tools, sometimes this communication and 317 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:04,600 simplicity is lost. 318 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:11,900 And so my hope in making this series of podcasts is to democratize design education to make 319 00:25:11,900 --> 00:25:19,240 it more widely available so that we can communicate clearly and succinctly and make the world 320 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:25,000 a more designed and less noisy and garish place. 321 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:27,880 Sometimes I don't even want to get on social media these days. 322 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:34,940 I used to really enjoy my little afternoon scrolls, but I feel so turned off by what 323 00:25:34,940 --> 00:25:43,840 I see even in a design sense on top of all the other world things that it is something 324 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:48,480 that's totally driven me to change my habits and how I consume content. 325 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:55,600 And that's particularly because I feel a little bit sensitive towards the content I consume 326 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,440 and the type of art I consume. 327 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:04,920 But I made the personal decision to essentially put my foot down and be more intentional about 328 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:12,720 what I read, what I see, and how I even develop my own design process. 329 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:19,360 Because as I've worked as a designer since 2020, things have not slowed down. 330 00:26:19,360 --> 00:26:27,880 They've only picked up and been complicated, I think, by the changing economy, other factors, 331 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:29,360 new tools. 332 00:26:29,360 --> 00:26:32,920 And designing is still a job that's out there. 333 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:38,120 People are still hiring and I still continue to work as a designer. 334 00:26:38,120 --> 00:26:44,400 But again, I find that there is a little bit more complexity, a lot more feelings, moods, 335 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:49,280 and attitudes when it comes to working in the creative industry because people are impacted 336 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:52,220 by all these current events. 337 00:26:52,220 --> 00:26:59,720 And I think that some sensitivity and respecting the work of artists and designers and people 338 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:07,680 who decide to take on this work of forging their own path deserves the respect that it 339 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:09,000 deserves. 340 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:15,920 And so with this podcast, I hope that you take away what you need for your mission for 341 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:19,240 your next journey. 342 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:24,260 And if you are a designer, hopefully it also sparks in your mind what you might improve 343 00:27:24,260 --> 00:27:31,400 in your design process because I feel that many designers, even in an agency or an in-house 344 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:39,080 setting have come across a lot of challenges that used to not be that big of an issue. 345 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,760 So I'd be interested to hear what your thoughts are. 346 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:46,680 And if you'd like to comment on this episode, let me know your thoughts. 347 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:51,520 And I'm always happy to hear if you have suggestions for the podcast or if there are 348 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:53,800 topics that you would like to hear about more. 349 00:27:53,800 --> 00:28:00,560 Alright, back into today's episode, we're going to talk about where to hire a designer 350 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:08,060 and setting up a process for working with your creative designer or your visual designer. 351 00:28:08,060 --> 00:28:14,320 So I have a few recommendations for finding a designer to work with and this will be in 352 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:19,000 a freelance or contract project basis. 353 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:23,920 I'm going to go ahead and just list out the typical ways you can find a designer. 354 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:30,360 A lot of folks have their work online and in the big mood boarding episode, I mentioned 355 00:28:30,360 --> 00:28:38,400 websites like Behance, Dribble with 3Bs and websites like Arena and Pinterest. 356 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:44,800 A lot of creative people and designers who make it on their own create templates for 357 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:52,520 websites like Creative Market and you can also find folks on websites like I Love Creatives. 358 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:57,640 There are big directories there for people who are multi-hyphenate creatives and these 359 00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:05,560 are creatives who work in photography, social media, marketing, graphic and digital design. 360 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:11,440 But all of these areas are very specific fields and I will say with just the way the world 361 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:18,120 is today, many people do actually have really high quality skills in all of these different 362 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:19,120 areas. 363 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:24,680 I think by nature of the way work has been over the past four years, I would be surprised 364 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:30,040 if you found someone who was even mid or early career who didn't have a variety of these 365 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:35,640 skills and I think sometimes people can be really wary of folks who have a variety of 366 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:39,320 skills but I'd say take a chance on these people. 367 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,640 These are often times the most hardworking people. 368 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:47,040 The fact that they have a lot of different skills shows that they've continued to work 369 00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:54,760 despite changing economic factors that sometimes put a demand on more video content or more 370 00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:55,760 writing. 371 00:29:55,760 --> 00:30:01,560 These days the trend is now going back to having more people create content for blogs 372 00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:06,720 and you know at the beginning of this year there were hardly any freelance roles available 373 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:10,320 for writers and now it's surging again. 374 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:16,840 Many people are looking for editors and writers and you know I used to not write a lot as 375 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:21,800 a career or even freelance but I've gotten my first few writing jobs recently just because 376 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:29,080 the internet is full of chat gbt content and chat gbt does not have a human touch. 377 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:30,160 I will tell you that. 378 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:37,720 It doesn't understand subtle humor and it can be really boilerplate in terms of just 379 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:45,160 being you know like that's a phrase for being like a little bit too literal and the human 380 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:50,640 touch is honestly a lot easier to get from a human. 381 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:57,000 Sometimes I see people basically using chat gbt and having to over massage it and so I 382 00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:02,000 still really believe in hiring human creatives for their work. 383 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:07,200 I think it's going to save you time and while you could essentially I suppose try to automate 384 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:13,040 I think there is like a high level of distrust in automated work that is created by AI that 385 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:19,760 is not reviewed by a creative and I promise you people can tell when the work is not reviewed 386 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:26,400 by someone who is a creative director or has experience working with human audiences. 387 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:30,400 So on this topic of finding creatives I'm going to give you my thoughts on a few different 388 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:31,760 platforms. 389 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:36,920 These are questions I get a lot from some of my friends who are hiring designers and 390 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:39,720 this first platform is Fiverr. 391 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:45,040 If you go on the platform Fiverr there's a lot of folks who basically put up project 392 00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:51,640 based work where you could hire someone to make a pitch deck for you maybe an illustration. 393 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:57,960 I think Fiverr in my opinion is my least favorite platform for finding creatives and getting 394 00:31:57,960 --> 00:31:59,120 creative work. 395 00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:07,480 I've made a Fiverr profile probably even in 2016 way before the pandemic and AI. 396 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:13,040 I think that Fiverr is definitely oversaturated and you're going to spend a lot of time marketing 397 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:15,120 yourself on Fiverr. 398 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:20,760 So as a creative if you're on Fiverr sometimes I also don't really trust the people who get 399 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:21,760 work on there. 400 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:27,280 I've purchased work on Fiverr and the cost that you will pay, the amount of money you 401 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:32,680 will spend for let's say like an illustration will widely vary. 402 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:38,960 You might find someone who's in Bhutan who will charge you five dollars an hour for an 403 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:44,480 illustration or someone who's in Chicago who will charge you three hundred dollars. 404 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:49,080 Honestly I can't really tell you that there's any sort of consistency I would say look at 405 00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:55,360 the reviews but I genuinely don't trust the tastes of people who buy work off of Fiverr. 406 00:32:55,360 --> 00:33:03,680 I think the quality of design is really sporadic, random, sure you could get the job done but 407 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:06,800 you might be missing something in quality of work. 408 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:14,720 So I actually see the least high quality work on Fiverr and many of the designers I know 409 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:19,480 and trust who worked in the industry for a really long time would probably never put 410 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:25,760 their services on Fiverr just because they are really not wanting to work with people 411 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:33,840 who think they can kind of just get like a fast casual type of service and high quality 412 00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:34,840 design. 413 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:40,180 I just don't really think that exists and I think there's a big mismatch you'll find 414 00:33:40,180 --> 00:33:45,800 in expectations and results if you work as a designer on Fiverr and if you are looking 415 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:47,400 for a designer on Fiverr. 416 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:49,480 So I would say avoid. 417 00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:51,560 Up next Upwork. 418 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:57,440 So Upwork is a little bit like Fiverr but somehow I actually trust Upwork more I'll 419 00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:58,720 tell you why. 420 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:04,840 I know many people actually who are early in their career who have set up agencies thanks 421 00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:11,960 to websites like Upwork they found their first few clients as a social media agency just 422 00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:18,720 looking for people who needed their content managed and social media agencies are pretty 423 00:34:18,720 --> 00:34:20,200 well fleshed out these days. 424 00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:26,000 I would say that it's competitive and not everyone can do it so the folks who do run 425 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:32,840 social media agencies and find their clients on Upwork usually get them on retainer and 426 00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:37,000 I think if you're just starting out you're going to find a lot more competition among 427 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:42,600 the designers or people offering their services on Upwork but because of that if you're someone 428 00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:50,640 looking for services on Upwork you can find a variety of low to high range price work. 429 00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:56,000 There are people who have been on Upwork for many years who provide high quality design. 430 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:57,840 You can take a look at their portfolio. 431 00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:01,360 I think Upwork is a little bit more realistic in pricing. 432 00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:08,760 I don't know why this is exactly but I find that Upwork probably has more volume and whatever 433 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:15,520 they've done I find that this is just my assumption that Upwork has catered more towards 434 00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:23,760 actually researching what freelancers need and what users who go on the site to look 435 00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:28,600 for people to work with therefore they've created a better process that has allowed 436 00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:34,620 them to take on more clientele on both ends of the pipeline, creatives and people looking 437 00:35:34,620 --> 00:35:38,880 for work and therefore it is a bit more competitive. 438 00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:44,960 So this is a great place to look for designers and you can hire within the United States, 439 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:50,640 outside the United States, genuinely speaking if you hire outside of the United States you 440 00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,860 will probably even pay a lot less. 441 00:35:53,860 --> 00:35:58,560 You can fight me on this if you want but there are really talented designers everywhere all 442 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:05,840 around the world who are great at using Photoshop and Illustrator, Adobe Photoshop tools and 443 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:07,880 they might just be starting out. 444 00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:09,480 You can take a look at their portfolio. 445 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:16,600 These are folks that you could probably coach into working with your level of design and 446 00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:21,800 I'd say if you need a design assistant or someone who is readily available to work on 447 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:28,960 projects where maybe you need images like cut out in bulk or like a newsletter created 448 00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:35,120 and you feel like you could spend maybe a few hours of your time coaching someone on 449 00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:39,160 how to make your newsletter but then they're consistent and they'll do it every week, 450 00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:41,480 I think Upwork is great for that. 451 00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:45,400 So again this is an open marketplace and I do think it takes some time to find someone 452 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:47,400 that you work well with. 453 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:52,720 Hire a bunch of different folks for small projects and see who you work best with and 454 00:36:52,720 --> 00:36:55,400 I think that's what Upwork is great for. 455 00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:57,440 Alright, okay. 456 00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:03,120 Now for some businesses I feel that they need creatives who are all-in-one marketers and 457 00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:07,960 also maybe good at creating ads on Canva, shooting photos. 458 00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:13,100 I know a lot of people think this is a lot to ask for but the reality is if you work 459 00:37:13,100 --> 00:37:19,320 in a major city like LA or New York, chances are you do have all these skills and the market 460 00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:21,320 is extremely competitive. 461 00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:28,360 There are folks who have been in and out of the industry working for years and doing multiple 462 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:35,960 types of creative, maybe even assistant type of work and I think websites like I Love Creatives 463 00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:42,080 are really great for finding folks who do this type of work and I think it really is 464 00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:45,400 up to you with what kind of person you're looking for. 465 00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:50,000 In this episode we're talking about designers but depending on what your design knowledge 466 00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:55,360 is, if you're looking for someone to make ads for you for example, you might want to 467 00:37:55,360 --> 00:38:00,360 find someone who is more of actually a creative marketer because while you want your ads to 468 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:05,160 be creative and for people to click through, to be honest, a lot of the times people engage 469 00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:12,600 with ads is not necessarily I would say even like quality of art or design. 470 00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:17,920 I think there is a bit of A-B testing that comes into play where you might actually want 471 00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:24,880 to work with someone who's willing to do a variety of different visual designs and be 472 00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:28,460 able to test them and then figure out what works best. 473 00:38:28,460 --> 00:38:32,360 You don't necessarily need someone who's really good at creating art for that. 474 00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:38,320 You need someone who's willing to engage with the process of A-B testing artwork but also 475 00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:44,680 probably has the creative skills to use something like Canva, maybe Illustrator Photoshop, it 476 00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:45,680 doesn't really matter. 477 00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:49,120 They just need to be able to create ads quickly and then test them. 478 00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:53,360 Now let's say that you're looking for someone to make a website for you. 479 00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:57,780 These days you don't have to be a developer, you just need someone who's good at Shopify 480 00:38:57,780 --> 00:39:04,240 and there are a lot of freelancers out there who even specialize in either of these platforms. 481 00:39:04,240 --> 00:39:08,240 Depending on which platform you want is going to depend on what kind of service or product 482 00:39:08,240 --> 00:39:09,500 you're providing. 483 00:39:09,500 --> 00:39:14,920 A lot of e-commerce shops choose Shopify and the reason for that is because you can 484 00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:21,080 highly customize Shopify and get really granular data on retail sales. 485 00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:24,560 There's also a lot of tools that help I think with shipping. 486 00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:31,080 Whereas Squarespace is more I think agile for people who provide online creative services 487 00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:37,080 who might have a few things going for them in terms of e-commerce but maybe web services, 488 00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:39,920 events, brick and mortar shops. 489 00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:45,040 So if you have a lot more going on I think Squarespace is a great website or platform 490 00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:50,160 to use and then you would want to find a creative who is more versed in Squarespace and all 491 00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:51,900 the different tools that are on there. 492 00:39:51,900 --> 00:39:57,800 Because these days Squarespace is a lot more agile and it kind of operates in a way where 493 00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:02,920 you could edit it yourself but if you're not familiar with all the tools on there you could 494 00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:08,320 even set up like an online community and just have it run a subscription service. 495 00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:13,880 You could even run your subscription service directly through Squarespace and all of these 496 00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:16,720 tools were not available two years ago. 497 00:40:16,720 --> 00:40:23,280 This is relatively new but I'd say that Squarespace is advantageous for this reason. 498 00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:30,760 I personally work with Squarespace and I'm not so into the e-commerce world but a lot 499 00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:34,800 of brands these days build their websites with Shopify. 500 00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:41,120 I see celebrity brands use Shopify and they hire someone who is really good at editing 501 00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:45,960 Shopify sites to the point where you couldn't tell that that's a Shopify site. 502 00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:51,160 So those are a few things to consider and it really depends on who you are and what 503 00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:54,360 kind of online community you're looking to build. 504 00:40:54,360 --> 00:41:00,320 I honestly rarely see folks these days looking to hire people to create print and deliverable 505 00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:01,840 projects for them. 506 00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:07,960 I would love to see that more because frankly the internet is clogged these days and I think 507 00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:11,760 there's such a high demand for high quality creative work. 508 00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:17,040 There's so much noise on the internet that I think there is a big gap in well designed 509 00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:18,040 print products. 510 00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:23,560 I know printing can be relatively expensive but there are ways to make it cheaper. 511 00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:30,200 As a side note, one thing I do encourage is for people to consider hiring graphic designers 512 00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:31,200 for print work. 513 00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:35,680 I think there's kind of a gap in the market for really well designed print work and it 514 00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:40,840 does take longer and you have to be kind of sure about what you're offering in a print 515 00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:46,480 sense or what you want to offer in advertising through a print mailer because once you print 516 00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:48,560 it, it's going to be out there for some time. 517 00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:54,240 But I think due to this slowness and a bit more permanency, I would advocate for hiring 518 00:41:54,240 --> 00:42:00,080 a designer to advertise for you with print and that's just my two cents as a side note. 519 00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:05,280 Alright, up next we're going to talk about setting up a process for working with designers 520 00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:09,600 and this is the last section of this podcast. 521 00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:11,440 So setting up a process. 522 00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:17,960 My rule of thumb is if you've done it, you know how to do it and how to explain it to 523 00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:19,280 the person you're hiring. 524 00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:23,360 You have a process and you can even approve upon it from there. 525 00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:28,360 Sometimes I see people hire design assistants or designers and they haven't done the work, 526 00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:29,840 they don't know what they're asking for. 527 00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:32,600 You kind of have to build a process together from scratch. 528 00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:39,200 I find this to be frustrating as a designer and I think it can kind of degrade trust in 529 00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:41,280 the beginning of a working relationship. 530 00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:45,680 So this is why my advice is at least try to do some of the work first before you hire 531 00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:47,080 someone to do it. 532 00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:54,240 I also think this is kind of a low startup cost way of hiring creatives and I think you're 533 00:42:54,240 --> 00:42:59,040 going to have more trust with the person you work with if you educate yourself and take 534 00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:02,440 the time to understand some of these tools. 535 00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:07,720 But when you're hiring a designer, like I said, you can hire for a project based, hourly. 536 00:43:07,720 --> 00:43:15,040 I highly recommend that you don't try to give your designer more than one project to work 537 00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:16,400 on at a time. 538 00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:19,160 I say come in with a brief. 539 00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:25,040 Earlier, we described what creative briefs are and how to describe your project. 540 00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:28,340 I'd say maybe even work with just one project to start with. 541 00:43:28,340 --> 00:43:33,480 If you have a lower budget, you can work hourly and then cap it and then see if you want to 542 00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:36,200 continue to work with that designer. 543 00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:39,920 It's honestly my biggest recommendation if you're on the lower end of a budget. 544 00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:45,600 If you actually have a lot more budget and you want to work with a designer longer term, 545 00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:53,560 I would still say set really clear expectations on what projects you want, what kind of outcomes 546 00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:59,440 you hope to see, and maybe limit the deliverables in the beginning. 547 00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:04,920 You know, one, two, three projects for the start of three months I think is pretty realistic. 548 00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:11,800 In three months, you could potentially get a website, some branding done, and maybe even 549 00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:17,380 like a print deliverable, like a business card or something else creative that you know, 550 00:44:17,380 --> 00:44:19,860 you kind of allow your designer to tinker on. 551 00:44:19,860 --> 00:44:25,520 And at this point, you might be wondering about, so if you're hiring an agency, let's 552 00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:27,440 talk about that. 553 00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:33,280 Because to be honest, if you're hiring an agency, you will be paying a premium. 554 00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:37,240 Doesn't matter what kind of service you're looking at, at minimum, you're going to pay 555 00:44:37,240 --> 00:44:40,440 5k for a project. 556 00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:46,240 Most people when they're just starting out don't have 5k to spend on a project. 557 00:44:46,240 --> 00:44:51,840 And even if you do have the money to spend, I don't recommend this because agencies are 558 00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:57,800 set up in a way where they have multiple people working on one project. 559 00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:03,400 Maybe that's a project manager, a designer, a social person, an illustrator, they can 560 00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:07,040 contact out all the moving pieces of this project. 561 00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:11,160 And the project manager is probably going to, you know, make sure that the scope and 562 00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:14,200 the budget is in line with what you give them. 563 00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:20,920 But I think because you're spending such a large bulk of money, let's say like $5,000 564 00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:27,000 compared to like 50 an hour, the amount of ability you're going to have in controlling 565 00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:29,720 that process is going to be low. 566 00:45:29,720 --> 00:45:37,440 I think this also kind of exacerbates this dynamic with agencies where sometimes expectations 567 00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:39,940 are quite high for a deliverable. 568 00:45:39,940 --> 00:45:46,800 And then clients want to have a high level of touch because of the premium they're paying. 569 00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:50,120 And this is some clients, other clients, you know, they'll pay money and then they'll 570 00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:53,560 just, you know, they'll get what they get and they're happy with it. 571 00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:59,120 But one of the, a little bit of beef I have with agencies is that I'll tell you this 572 00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:04,800 working within an agency and as someone who has hired an agency, agencies have so many 573 00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:09,920 clients that oftentimes they're not just focused on your one project. 574 00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:14,440 Agencies sometimes overstretch designers and assign client work. 575 00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:19,920 And I think clients kind of get this sense that because there is competition within the 576 00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:24,840 agency to work with the designers, they need to communicate constantly. 577 00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:33,000 And I think what this does is it creates this strain where there's a high level of communication, 578 00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:39,320 but maybe not as much of a high level power of execution to meet the demands of someone 579 00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:41,080 who is asking for creative work. 580 00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:46,640 I see sometimes clients go to agencies and act like it's a fast casual restaurant, not 581 00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:51,480 really knowing the process behind how the work is being created. 582 00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:57,320 And then, you know, asking for changes like last minute on the fly, expecting a good quality 583 00:46:57,320 --> 00:46:58,760 work still. 584 00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:03,200 And I think this is really frustrating for both designers and clients because again, 585 00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:08,000 there's that disconnect where maybe you feel like you want, if you're the customer, of 586 00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:13,280 course you would want a high quality level of design and, you know, something to be adapted 587 00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:19,840 quickly, especially in today's age, where you do need to change quickly sometimes. 588 00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:24,560 But because designers are working with so many clients at the agency, oftentimes there's 589 00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:28,880 just not enough time to get to all the last minute changes. 590 00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:34,520 And I think this puts an incredible amount of strain on designers who are kind of asked 591 00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:40,780 to do a lot of project management and internal creative direction. 592 00:47:40,780 --> 00:47:46,080 And honestly, I feel for designers in the creative agency world these days, because 593 00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:48,720 many agencies are pretty strapped. 594 00:47:48,720 --> 00:47:52,800 They've also gone through their own rounds of layoffs. 595 00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:58,400 And what I see sometimes is that creatives are working just so fast with minimal creative 596 00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:03,680 direction that they're asked to give their creative opinion when there isn't really 597 00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:11,680 bandwidth or sometimes the social grace of giving an opinion of what creative should look like. 598 00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:17,960 And then so there's also a lot of back and forth between clients and partners. 599 00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:24,760 And while this is, I think, to some extent ideal for a creative process, too much of 600 00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:28,160 that eventually creates work that isn't strong. 601 00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:33,000 I think too much compromise creates work that is not super defined. 602 00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:34,700 It's just kind of lukewarm. 603 00:48:34,700 --> 00:48:38,640 And then people get the product that they paid for in the end and they gave the opinion 604 00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:40,600 that they wanted to give. 605 00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:46,360 But because designers are so strapped for time, there's really no benefit to arguing 606 00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:48,200 with clients at times. 607 00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:50,440 Sometimes projects need to end when they need to end. 608 00:48:50,440 --> 00:49:00,640 One thing I saw is a graphic on quality, time, and speed when it comes to receiving a creative 609 00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:07,840 profit, so in How to Make It in the New Music Business by Ari Kirsten, he has this graphic 610 00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:13,460 on what you can expect to pay and how long you'll have to wait for creative work. 611 00:49:13,460 --> 00:49:18,320 And so with this graphic, he says, pick two, and it's a Euler diagram. 612 00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:24,800 There's three circles, fast, good, and cheap, and you can only pick two. 613 00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:30,320 So you're either going to get it fast and good, but it's not going to be cheap, or you 614 00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:37,640 can get it good and cheap, but it's not going to be fast, or you can have it fast and cheap, 615 00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:40,160 but it's not going to be good. 616 00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:44,560 And I think this visual basically explains it all. 617 00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:48,680 Whenever you work with freelancers, agencies, you're going to have to pick two. 618 00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:54,280 You're not going to have it all, so you either have a ton of money and a lot of time, and 619 00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:55,440 I think that's ideal. 620 00:49:55,440 --> 00:50:00,560 You're going to get the best work out there with a ton of time and a ton of money, but 621 00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:04,400 what I see these days is a lot of people don't have a lot of time and they don't have a 622 00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:09,640 lot of money, and what I have a hard time explaining is that, honestly, what you're 623 00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:13,320 going to get is going to be fast, but also not good. 624 00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:19,600 And so you need either time or money to at least get something you need good, to be honest. 625 00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:22,320 I think you should not sacrifice good. 626 00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:24,440 So yeah, those are my two cents. 627 00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:29,680 All right, so that was today's episode on how to work with designers, the capacity that 628 00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:31,760 you can work with designers. 629 00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:38,400 Chances are, if you are a DIYer, I recommend hiring a designer freelance, contract, hourly 630 00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:39,400 or by project. 631 00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:44,120 There are a lot of websites to find folks these days, and many people even advertise 632 00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:50,040 themselves on Instagram, Behance, a lot of these creative websites I mentioned. 633 00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:54,960 I think ultimately, maintaining a good working relationship with a human designer is going 634 00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:59,000 to be one of the best things that you do for your projects, no matter what you're working 635 00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:00,000 on. 636 00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:05,360 I also think that word travels fast in the creative sphere, and if you're good to work 637 00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:11,120 with, that type of creative karma goes a long way. 638 00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:16,000 Designers do talk, and they will mention if someone is easy to work with, and I think 639 00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:18,000 that kind of goes both ways. 640 00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:23,720 And so I think as designers, it's really important for us to keep our work high quality, 641 00:51:23,720 --> 00:51:28,280 to choose projects that we want to work on in order to kind of keep that spirit of good 642 00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:29,280 design out there. 643 00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:34,880 But then I think also if you're hiring designers, it's important to also keep that spirit of 644 00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:40,960 wanting to respect the process of design, know what it takes to get good quality design, 645 00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:43,640 and then keep your expectations realistic. 646 00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:47,560 If your budget is cheap, but you want good work, it's probably going to take a lot of 647 00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:50,400 time, months even. 648 00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:55,360 But if you have a lot of money, but not a lot of time, you can hire for the best creative 649 00:51:55,360 --> 00:51:57,040 work out there. 650 00:51:57,040 --> 00:52:04,120 But hardly do I see that people understand this dynamic, and my hope is just to bring 651 00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:05,840 some realism to this. 652 00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:09,880 I think that working with human designers is one of the best things that you can do 653 00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:11,380 for your projects. 654 00:52:11,380 --> 00:52:15,800 You're getting an ally, you're getting another person who will advocate for the work that 655 00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:22,560 you do when you allow them the creative freedom and respect to build up your work. 656 00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:27,360 And at the end of the day, I think your work becomes larger than you, larger than your 657 00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:30,520 brands when you work with another human being. 658 00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:34,560 So this has been the episode on how to work with designers. 659 00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:38,400 And if you have any questions, if you have your two cents to add, I definitely want to 660 00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:39,560 hear from you. 661 00:52:39,560 --> 00:52:45,480 Again, there's more episodes in this series on branding, working with designers, how to 662 00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:48,100 create your own brand and choose your brand values. 663 00:52:48,100 --> 00:52:49,560 So please check those out. 664 00:52:49,560 --> 00:52:52,860 And if you haven't already, go ahead and follow this podcast. 665 00:52:52,860 --> 00:52:54,040 This is the pool party. 666 00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:55,500 My name is Jules. 667 00:52:55,500 --> 00:53:00,940 And if you have any questions on working with designers, your branding, or if you have any 668 00:53:00,940 --> 00:53:04,160 questions or comments, please feel free to reach out to me. 669 00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:07,280 My website is juliaespero.me. 670 00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:12,080 That's J-U-L-I-A-E-S-P-E-R-O. 671 00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:13,080 That's a period, me. 672 00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:15,680 All right, thank you, and I will talk to you next time.