WEBVTT

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This podcast is brought to you by Amusement Warehouse

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Magazine, the industry's largest trade publication.

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We cover amusement parks, carnivals, fairs, festivals,

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Subscribe today. You can subscribe by logging

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on to AmusementWarehouse .com, CarnivalWarehouse

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.com, or AmusementParkWarehouse .com. Welcome

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to another edition of the Music Warehouse podcast.

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Today our guest is Lee Stevens. fresh out of

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Gibson in Florida there. Lee has done so many

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things in the industry, but he's now capping

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off his career with probably the highest paid

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job in the industry, no? Yeah. As museum director

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for the Carnival Museum as we refer to it, colloquially,

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for the Showman's Foundation. Lee, welcome. Thanks

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so much for coming on on short notice and coming

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out of surgery. You just got your wing repaired

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there. Yeah, yeah, but I'm okay. It's just a

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little uncomfortable, but no severe pain. So

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I'm glad for that. Good. And you're not on drugs

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right now? No, no, no, no. I don't know. Extra

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strength Tylenol is about what I do. Nice. That's

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what I did too when I had surgery. I had back

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surgery and I didn't take any of that. I was

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so scared of getting addicted to something, I

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didn't do it. Exactly, exactly. And I'm the guy

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that, listen, I've been sober for 48 years, so

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I'm not going to... Wow, congratulations. Yeah.

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Congratulations. I'm 49. That's right in the

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mom's room. So, you know, I don't know that much

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about your long -term history. I know your fairly

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recent history, but, you know, how'd you get

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started and where'd you grow up? You sound like

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a New Yorker to me, but where'd you... get started

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and where'd you go? New York City and at 15 I

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left home to join the circus. I didn't run away

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from a bad home. I left to join the circus. Manhattan

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or where were you growing up? In Staten Island,

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New York. Staten Island? Yeah. I run away too

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from Staten Island. I'm from New Jersey. We had

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farms, dead bodies from Brooklyn and me. Mob

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hits. It was wonderful. So you saw a circus,

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or what did you answer, or you just ran? Every

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year we used to go to Madison Square Garden between

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my birthday, my sister's, and my brother's. We'd

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make the big trek, take the ferry, take the subways,

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get off at 51st Street, where the old garden,

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one of the old gardens was. And I was hooked.

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I was hooked when I was a kid, four, five, six,

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seven years old. I don't know what I was gonna

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do, but that's what I wanted to be. So it finally

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I got out of grade school and started freshman

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year in high school and There was a certain small

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circuit I thought it was the biggest thing in

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the world but a small circus came to a racetrack

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on Staten Island and I went got there about 5

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30 in the morning before daylight and Just sat

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around sat around till I saw some activity and

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then found out who the managers was and asked

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for a job Wow Well, I had to get permission from

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my parents and blah, blah, blah. Long story short.

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So I had a Schwinn Stingray. Nice. Not that we

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had money, my grandmother did. I was going to

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say somebody had some money if they had a Schwinn

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Stingray. That's a nice bike. It was candy apple

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blue. It was red. Beautiful. Anyway, I rode back

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home, got a paper bag full of my junk, brown

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paper bag, put a sleeping bag into some clothes

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and underwear, and off I went. My parents, my

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mother most, where the hell you think you're

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going? Well, I'm going to join the circus. What?

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I'm going to join the circus. Nobody believed

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me. So finally, they decided to drive me back

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in the car, my parents, and my father was great.

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He said, you know what, go. He said, what are

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you going to do? Go. If he wants to go, let him

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go. And my mother still had a fit. She had a

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fit until I got sent a ring of Ringling Brothers

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Monument Bailey Circus. But once I did that and

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had the whole neighborhood out there in the seats

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with her, then she kind of realized. Not such

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a bad idea. And like what background were your

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parents? What did your dad do in your mom? My

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dad was a executive at Procter and Gamble and

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my mother was worked for a brokerage firm on

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Wall Street. And she worked for the last independent

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brokerage firm on Wall Street before it was merged.

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So they were they were they let you do it. Yeah,

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my mother built for the time was just when you

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gotta come home and get a job. When you come

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home and get a job. I mean, none of it was unheard

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of. Who runs away and joins the circus, you know?

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But I did. Yeah, especially from that sort of

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background, I'm sure they expected. Oh, yeah.

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No, no, no. My brother, he was a plumbing contractor.

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My sister was, I don't know what you call it,

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an associate teacher for handicaps. mentally

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disturbed. Yeah, like a teaching assistant type

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thing. Yeah, she wasn't exactly what she was.

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The teacher's assistant. She's the one that got

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the beatings. Yeah, she has to do the hard work,

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right? Miami did that for a while with the same

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type of she loved. She still does to this day.

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She still takes on a couple of autistic severely

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autistic kids three days a week. Well, so yeah,

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she's dedicated. We all dedicated in our own

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way. So I love the business. So you joined the

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circus, what were your first jobs? Like putting

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the tent up or cleaning the elephant? That was

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the second job. The first week was shoveling

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up the elephant crap and finding water, water

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buckets and filling them up for the elephants.

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That was my first job. On the fifth day, then

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it was my job to do that, plus help set up the

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sideshow so the animals can get out of the trucks

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and get in that tent. And after that was done,

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the third week, I did the elephants, I did the

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sideshow, and then had help in the big top as

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a prop man, of which there was only me and an

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old guy named Whitey. And everybody has a Whitey

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on their show. I was going to say, there's always

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an old guy named Whitey. Yep. And then, about

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that time, I started having a cross -form in

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my crew cut, in my hair. There was no showers

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and like that, so there was a big 55 -gallon

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drum. And I decided to get in it, my underwear,

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to borrow soap. I thought they were going to

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kill me, because that was water for the house

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trailers. There was no water back then. They

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had to fill them. And I kind of contaminated

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the water from the water truck. So Whitey chased

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me around a tent with a tent stake for a little

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while. He never caught me. And then a couple

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of the acts took pity on me. And some of them

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had kids my age. So it was nice. I kind of found

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a home. And the rest is history. I worked my

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way up from that. I did trapeze. I did juggling

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act. I did a roller skating act, believe it or

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not. You learned it all through the performers

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were willing to teach you? Yeah, well, and just

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by watching them and trying to do what they did.

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Yeah, yeah. Well, but it's fascinating though,

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listening to you describe this because, you know,

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your average person out there would say, this

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guy joined the circus. Oh, my God, it had to

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be horrible. What did they do to him? You know,

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or how much did they abuse him and all that.

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There was a lot of trial by fire. But how were

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you treated, though? Did you feel at home? Were

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they nice to you? Were they? No, no one's nice

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to the prop guys. The circus had, back then,

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not so much now, a very rigid class system. And

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there was the lowest of the low, which I was.

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And then you had the next guys were like the

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managers of the tents and the concession people.

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And then came some of the acts. And then came

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the front end, which was the owners usually and

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more upper management. And it's a very tight

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class system. Not so much today. My kids will

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never know how that felt. But I mean, it's kind

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of funny to be a minority in your own minority.

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And that's what it is. But I worked at it, worked

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at it, worked at it. And there was lots of people

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that kind of took pity on me. I just wanted to

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be adopted into famous circus family. Well, that

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never happened so I created my own, thank goodness.

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Then I went into the animal business, Ron. I

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was doing a juggling act and a trapeze act and

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then I had an affinity for dogs and then the

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off time between seasons I went back to my parents

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in Staten Island and there was a grooming shop

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not too far and I learned how to groom dogs so

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I started acquiring dogs, poodles in fact. At

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the height of my poodle career, I had 31 poodles,

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15 standards and 16 minis. And we were doing

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one night stands for 44 weeks with a fabulous

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little circus that played mostly armories and

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high school gymnasiums. But it was a fabulous

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show. And I grew five dogs a day every day, seven

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days a week. So my whole thing is what they look

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like. The tricks. You know, they were all good.

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They were all entertaining. But my thing was

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all on the presentation. I had smoke machines.

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I had a pseudo dancing water in my act and things

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like that. Just it was the liberation of the

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dog acts is what what they turned me to be. And

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at that point, I was already sober, so it was

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the least even champagne poodles and all the

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dogs were named one form or another of alcohol.

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It was fun. That's fun. That's fun. So you had

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an affinity for animals. Yep. And then for the

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dogs, we went into, I started getting baboons.

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I went to buy some leopards to do a leopard act.

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The guy said, ah, there were diamond dust monkeys.

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Nobody's doing that, which there was two other

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people doing it. And so the baboons was my ticket

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to everywhere. I will say that. And what was

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the idea behind that act at first? What were

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you thinking? My wife's, they've, kind of got

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her pretty bad position several times. I mean,

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I was the alpha. So I mean, I was going to the

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and I talked to them. I treated them like baboons.

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I didn't try to expect them to be like people.

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So I had the whole truck would turn into one

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big cage where they could have their own private

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fights and sort out their own pecking order.

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They're very rigid pecking order when the baboon

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society. So the surface. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But

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it worked, you know, as long as the first two

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big baboons love me. They did anything I needed

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them to do. They protected me from the other

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ones, actually. Sounds kind of violent. There

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wasn't like that totally all the time. But there's

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a point where you have to integrate into the

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troop or you don't have nothing. They eat you

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up for lunch. And then we had California sea

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lions. We were the first sea lion act when I

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married my wife. And we were the first seal act

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in America in 15 or 16 years just because of

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the process. And the way the USDA, the size requirements

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for tanks and things like that got to be almost

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prohibitive to even be able to travel. They thought

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they had it cornered by not traveling, but I

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found a way around everything and just comply

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with whatever they wanted. And they finally relinquished

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and gave us the permits to do it. So we had two

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sons born. Well, my wife was a horsewoman from

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Canada. She was quite a horse woman, dressage

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and Prince Philip games and different things,

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three -day eventing. So we ended up starting

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to buy little miniature horses. And our boys

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were five and six and a half at that point. And

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we went to Baboo, Wisconsin again. We used to

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go up there to change acts and stuff like that.

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And even though we were on ringling, they sent

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us up there and we changed the act. They put

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the boys in it, finished training the pony act.

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So we had the baboon act and the pony act. on

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our last tour with Ringling. So I made my goal.

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My goal was the kid from nowhere to be with the

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greatest show on earth. And I guess you could

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liken that to back in the day when you were on

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The Royal, you know what I mean? Or Seltzer and

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Wilson, Straits, all the bigger, bigger shows.

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Jimmy Drew, I mean, these were all big time plays,

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I think, in the carnival world. If you were able

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to get a location on any one of those shows,

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you were big time, especially the railroad shows.

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Yeah, playing in Ringlingwood is the pinnacle

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really for circus, for the circus, right? Yeah,

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so where do you go after that? Well, we built

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a show called the Baboon Lagoon, which was small.

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I remember that one. Sorry? I remember that one.

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Oh, there you go. Great. And we set a new watermark

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there in the fair industry. What possessed you

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to do that, though? What were you thinking? After

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you worked for Ringling Brothers, it's the greatest,

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biggest show in the world. And we had several

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times we went to Europe and we did different

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things. But Ringling was the creme de la creme,

00:13:51.620 --> 00:13:55.299
for me personally. And after that was over, then

00:13:55.299 --> 00:13:58.000
where do you go? We would go back and we'd play

00:13:58.000 --> 00:14:00.980
some shrine circuses, which there's still some

00:14:00.980 --> 00:14:03.000
around, not like they used to be. But your time

00:14:03.000 --> 00:14:04.539
in Ringling you knew was going to be limited

00:14:04.539 --> 00:14:06.840
because they only You have a food track for so

00:14:06.840 --> 00:14:10.120
long, right? The bad ones are only in fashion

00:14:10.120 --> 00:14:12.840
for so long. It's only you for so long. We had

00:14:12.840 --> 00:14:16.139
a 10 -year association with them and it was the

00:14:16.139 --> 00:14:18.840
greatest 10 years up to that point of my life

00:14:18.840 --> 00:14:23.019
and career. And then where do you go? We thought,

00:14:23.059 --> 00:14:24.720
okay, we're going to go with Clyde Beatty. That's

00:14:24.720 --> 00:14:26.940
the next best choice. Or Circus Vargas. Those

00:14:26.940 --> 00:14:29.659
two were the biggest of the best 10 shows that

00:14:29.659 --> 00:14:32.200
were out there with long seasons. My thing was

00:14:32.200 --> 00:14:34.419
to have long seasons because I used to have money.

00:14:35.259 --> 00:14:39.419
don't we all? Anyway, that didn't transpire.

00:14:39.500 --> 00:14:41.759
So I built a big stage for the Baboon Lagoon.

00:14:41.799 --> 00:14:44.519
We decided to get into the fair market. And then

00:14:44.519 --> 00:14:46.419
the following year built another show because

00:14:46.419 --> 00:14:48.399
they liked the Baboon show so much. Hey, what

00:14:48.399 --> 00:14:51.200
else you got? Well, now I got the Wild West Follies,

00:14:51.200 --> 00:14:53.460
which I didn't, but I booked it before I had

00:14:53.460 --> 00:14:56.779
it. And then we had all the King's Horses. I

00:14:56.779 --> 00:14:58.960
had Lippez on some Friesian horses, Stallions

00:14:58.960 --> 00:15:01.980
in the show. And these were all half hour, 40

00:15:01.980 --> 00:15:04.769
minute shows. It wasn't just you know, here's

00:15:04.769 --> 00:15:06.529
a monkey, watch him do a trick. I mean, they

00:15:06.529 --> 00:15:09.490
were all themed out, all with music cues and

00:15:09.490 --> 00:15:12.250
everything. And it was, they were all built with,

00:15:12.470 --> 00:15:14.610
back in my head was with a Disney look for the

00:15:14.610 --> 00:15:17.669
fans, which there really wasn't many of them.

00:15:17.809 --> 00:15:20.350
You know, they had a lot of high acts and not

00:15:20.350 --> 00:15:23.610
taken away from anybody else's gigs. But I wanted

00:15:23.610 --> 00:15:26.330
to be, I wanted to be the biggest and the most

00:15:26.330 --> 00:15:29.169
sought after. So I got, we were lucky that way.

00:15:29.230 --> 00:15:32.029
And a lot of the carnival owners, which was great,

00:15:33.079 --> 00:15:36.259
they actually went out to their committees. For

00:15:36.259 --> 00:15:37.820
the first year we were in Vegas, we booked a

00:15:37.820 --> 00:15:40.299
whole year just because two or three carnival

00:15:40.299 --> 00:15:42.179
or showgoers went out and said, look, if I'm

00:15:42.179 --> 00:15:44.419
paid for empty entertainment, I'd like you to

00:15:44.419 --> 00:15:47.460
get these guys. And so we were lucky that way,

00:15:47.580 --> 00:15:50.440
very lucky. And that movie got booked real well

00:15:50.440 --> 00:15:53.960
the first year. Yeah, it was consistent, it booked

00:15:53.960 --> 00:15:57.360
really well. Well, in the intro, I'm just putting

00:15:57.360 --> 00:16:02.960
this on 45 instead of 33 RPM. I had two heart

00:16:02.960 --> 00:16:05.960
attacks, both at the circus here in Kiptown,

00:16:05.980 --> 00:16:09.460
and I produced a circus here. And just pressure,

00:16:09.600 --> 00:16:11.340
and I wanted everything to be right and perfect.

00:16:11.580 --> 00:16:13.820
It's kind of a curse. I like to be a perfectionist

00:16:13.820 --> 00:16:17.679
that way. And anyway, I had two heart attacks.

00:16:17.980 --> 00:16:19.860
And then so I said, you know, the baboon thing's

00:16:19.860 --> 00:16:21.720
getting a little too big, a little too much to

00:16:21.720 --> 00:16:24.340
push around the country anymore. Maybe we better

00:16:24.340 --> 00:16:26.700
back down a little bit. How many years have you

00:16:26.700 --> 00:16:30.759
been doing that? Twelve. Twelve years? Yeah.

00:16:32.280 --> 00:16:35.759
Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, then I retired the

00:16:35.759 --> 00:16:37.679
animals. They stayed in our yard for another

00:16:37.679 --> 00:16:42.679
18 months or so and Bobby know the sister Debbie

00:16:42.679 --> 00:16:48.360
had doubles off the gorilla Chimp farm over in

00:16:48.360 --> 00:16:50.840
Torpon Springs. They had all new accreditation

00:16:50.840 --> 00:16:53.779
with the USDA. They were all good to go and they

00:16:53.779 --> 00:16:56.379
had Bank of America several other big corporate

00:16:56.379 --> 00:16:59.399
sponsors building new caging and stuff and they

00:16:59.399 --> 00:17:01.870
asked me Would you like to bring the baboons

00:17:01.870 --> 00:17:04.190
over? We'd love to have them. And I said, yeah,

00:17:04.190 --> 00:17:06.029
I think it's time these girls, you know, we put

00:17:06.029 --> 00:17:07.910
them out in the morning and soon as the noceums

00:17:07.910 --> 00:17:11.509
come in Florida, we have noceums, start biting

00:17:11.509 --> 00:17:13.089
and itching. You know, they start shaking the

00:17:13.089 --> 00:17:14.869
cage. We want to go back into the truck with

00:17:14.869 --> 00:17:18.549
its air conditioning and TV. So it got to be

00:17:18.549 --> 00:17:21.109
it was hard on them and us, you know, they were

00:17:21.109 --> 00:17:23.210
used to working and now it's a big breaks were

00:17:23.210 --> 00:17:26.690
put on, you know. So but they went to a beautiful

00:17:26.690 --> 00:17:29.470
facility over there. It was just a very nice

00:17:29.470 --> 00:17:32.039
facility. I didn't tell any of them what their

00:17:32.039 --> 00:17:34.500
names were, and nobody over there knew what tricks

00:17:34.500 --> 00:17:36.839
any one of them did, because I didn't want people

00:17:36.839 --> 00:17:39.420
yelling and do stupid things. Just leave them

00:17:39.420 --> 00:17:41.819
be. They gave me everything, so I just want them

00:17:41.819 --> 00:17:44.920
to live their life out as comfortable as they

00:17:44.920 --> 00:17:51.339
made mine. That's neat. That act was such a big

00:17:51.339 --> 00:17:54.819
act at fairs. It was incredible how much you

00:17:54.819 --> 00:17:57.140
got booked or how different it was, too. It was

00:17:57.140 --> 00:18:02.650
really neat. Like I said, I mean I had this vision

00:18:02.650 --> 00:18:05.009
of doing something I wanted to I just wanted

00:18:05.009 --> 00:18:07.809
a whole jungle theme stage show Like I said with

00:18:07.809 --> 00:18:11.509
the beginning and middle and an end We have people

00:18:11.509 --> 00:18:14.670
I've at the museum here now we have air conditioning

00:18:14.670 --> 00:18:17.190
problems. So the guys here fixing the air conditioning

00:18:17.190 --> 00:18:25.970
So, you know because you look now at the landscape

00:18:25.970 --> 00:18:29.220
today with acts and there's You know, the sea

00:18:29.220 --> 00:18:31.319
lions are still the king of the, you know, one

00:18:31.319 --> 00:18:34.480
of the only ones. But getting past that, there's,

00:18:34.779 --> 00:18:37.559
especially post pandemic, there's not much. There's

00:18:37.559 --> 00:18:39.440
really not, everything's the same just about.

00:18:39.980 --> 00:18:42.819
There's no real new acts. I mean, you got filled

00:18:42.819 --> 00:18:45.380
with these monkeys riding dogs is great, but

00:18:45.380 --> 00:18:48.839
you know, what else is there? It's a shame there's

00:18:48.839 --> 00:18:52.059
not acts like the Babi Lagoon or Wild West Show

00:18:52.059 --> 00:18:54.920
or things like that, or just in short supply.

00:18:55.210 --> 00:18:59.250
We had 27 birds. Parrots, macaws, and toucans

00:18:59.250 --> 00:19:03.230
in the show was birds of pineapple paradise.

00:19:04.849 --> 00:19:06.950
That was another one I had. Then I did a puppet

00:19:06.950 --> 00:19:09.829
show, Broadway to Hollywood puppets. I didn't

00:19:09.829 --> 00:19:11.829
perform them. I had other people do them that

00:19:11.829 --> 00:19:14.569
I knew at one time or another had those skills

00:19:14.569 --> 00:19:17.089
like the Wild West show. They were doing a whip

00:19:17.089 --> 00:19:19.730
and rope act anyway, so I just put it the theme

00:19:19.730 --> 00:19:22.079
to music, dressed them, costumed it. built the

00:19:22.079 --> 00:19:24.519
stage. Bill Browning painted all of my equipment,

00:19:24.559 --> 00:19:28.759
by the way, and not that nobody else is good

00:19:28.759 --> 00:19:32.200
enough, but Bill was fantastic. The king of the

00:19:32.200 --> 00:19:35.220
painters. All the 3D stuff. He did all the detail.

00:19:35.579 --> 00:19:38.539
It was his stuff. I hope it's preserved somewhere.

00:19:38.920 --> 00:19:41.119
If nothing else, just his line drawings and his

00:19:41.119 --> 00:19:43.819
sketches. Guy was a brilliant, brilliant artist.

00:19:44.019 --> 00:19:47.400
He just was. You still have Sharon Sandlofer

00:19:47.400 --> 00:19:49.539
with The Wolves, I guess, still works. Oh, yeah,

00:19:49.539 --> 00:19:52.200
Sharon Sandlofer with The Wolves, yeah. There's

00:19:52.200 --> 00:19:55.640
not a lot of animal acts anymore. That's a big,

00:19:55.640 --> 00:19:59.619
big show, Cousin Grumpy's Pork Chop Review. He's

00:19:59.619 --> 00:20:03.819
good. And what's his name, Hansi and his wife

00:20:03.819 --> 00:20:06.339
married to one of the Pages girls. They do a

00:20:06.339 --> 00:20:10.440
big pseudo farm dog act show. There's a few,

00:20:10.579 --> 00:20:14.440
but a lot of it's a strolling act now, you know?

00:20:14.509 --> 00:20:17.029
And they were asking for the same money that

00:20:17.029 --> 00:20:20.750
we got 15 years ago. So it's kind of a comes

00:20:20.750 --> 00:20:23.670
full circle. But there's sort of nothing new

00:20:23.670 --> 00:20:27.829
under the sun. It's the same stuff. It's a shame.

00:20:28.109 --> 00:20:30.130
What do you see when you go to a fair now? What's

00:20:30.130 --> 00:20:33.450
new? What's exciting? Not much. Everybody has

00:20:33.450 --> 00:20:35.890
a circus. So -and -so family circus. So -and

00:20:35.890 --> 00:20:40.069
-so thrill show. And it's a globe, a wheel. And

00:20:40.069 --> 00:20:43.210
a comedy act. A hoop act. You know what I mean?

00:20:43.480 --> 00:20:46.059
There's a hundred of those. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

00:20:46.140 --> 00:20:49.140
And then it's just, it's like a good game, you

00:20:49.140 --> 00:20:51.619
know, the guys making money with a game on Tuesday,

00:20:51.819 --> 00:20:54.339
on Thursday, it'd be 15 more games right next

00:20:54.339 --> 00:20:56.759
door. Just like it, you know, that's very true.

00:20:56.980 --> 00:20:59.500
That's very true. But it's, it's, and it's easier,

00:20:59.500 --> 00:21:01.880
I guess, to do, but it's just a shame because

00:21:01.880 --> 00:21:03.119
when you're looking for something different,

00:21:03.160 --> 00:21:05.880
looking for something exciting, looking for something

00:21:05.880 --> 00:21:10.039
new. Yeah. It's going to draw people. Yeah. you

00:21:10.039 --> 00:21:11.660
know, there's just not a lot of, and that's why

00:21:11.660 --> 00:21:15.720
the sea lions get booked so early. Oh, they're

00:21:15.720 --> 00:21:19.000
probably booked into 27 -28. Yeah, just some

00:21:19.000 --> 00:21:22.240
one -off dates, but. In fact, original Marco

00:21:22.240 --> 00:21:24.319
Pilipitas, when they had the idea, they came

00:21:24.319 --> 00:21:26.660
to me because we had the sea lions, and they

00:21:26.660 --> 00:21:29.940
were buying the semi and the animals from a gentleman

00:21:29.940 --> 00:21:31.720
that was on Ringling. He left them all here and

00:21:31.720 --> 00:21:34.460
went back to Romania, actually, and it was a

00:21:34.460 --> 00:21:36.039
toss -up if I was going to buy it or if they

00:21:36.039 --> 00:21:37.960
were going to buy it, and I ended up helping

00:21:37.960 --> 00:21:40.680
them get all their permits. because I had been

00:21:40.680 --> 00:21:43.400
through that process already. So the Peters Brothers,

00:21:43.599 --> 00:21:46.099
they had the shark show at that time, which was

00:21:46.099 --> 00:21:49.380
wildly popular for a long time. And then they

00:21:49.380 --> 00:21:51.240
went into the sea lion business, you know, and

00:21:51.240 --> 00:21:53.079
then they've been quite successful. And now there's

00:21:53.079 --> 00:21:55.799
three units. Those boys are no longer involved,

00:21:56.579 --> 00:21:59.279
but you know, the folks that bought it now have,

00:21:59.339 --> 00:22:02.319
I believe three units of it working. It's popular

00:22:02.319 --> 00:22:05.700
and it's a great show. It's a great show because

00:22:05.700 --> 00:22:10.519
show, it's a real show. And it's different. Yeah,

00:22:10.579 --> 00:22:13.059
it's totally different. Totally different. Something

00:22:13.059 --> 00:22:15.140
you don't see every single day. You know, it's

00:22:15.140 --> 00:22:18.220
just it's got to be stuff out there. People hopefully

00:22:18.220 --> 00:22:21.339
come into the industry that can do more things.

00:22:22.279 --> 00:22:24.940
I think it would stop people like I had no inhibitions

00:22:24.940 --> 00:22:27.759
about spending money, even if I didn't have it.

00:22:28.819 --> 00:22:33.299
No, the Baboon Lagoon stage was $180 ,000 when

00:22:33.299 --> 00:22:36.079
I could have you could do it on the back of a

00:22:36.079 --> 00:22:39.019
truck. I mean. But it wasn't good enough. This

00:22:39.019 --> 00:22:40.759
floor moved in and out, if you remember. The

00:22:40.759 --> 00:22:43.740
whole stage opened before your eyes. Anyway,

00:22:44.160 --> 00:22:46.759
it was what it was. Your costumes and all that

00:22:46.759 --> 00:22:49.819
stuff? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I wanted the people

00:22:49.819 --> 00:22:51.220
to feel like they got their money's worth when

00:22:51.220 --> 00:22:54.960
they came through the gate. And in reality, the

00:22:54.960 --> 00:22:57.680
show owners knew that. It was nice, it justified

00:22:57.680 --> 00:23:01.140
their ticket prices, and especially on the still

00:23:01.140 --> 00:23:05.359
dates. We made them a fan. It was us in the petting

00:23:05.359 --> 00:23:07.660
zoo, maybe, or us and Bill and Morris with his

00:23:07.660 --> 00:23:11.440
elephants. You know, we were, Wade booked us

00:23:11.440 --> 00:23:15.299
a lot. Corky Powers booked us a lot. Jimmy Drew

00:23:15.299 --> 00:23:19.740
booked us a lot. So Meyers booked us a lot. So

00:23:19.740 --> 00:23:21.579
we were very fortunate because we live in Gibb

00:23:21.579 --> 00:23:24.539
town and our association with the club certainly

00:23:24.539 --> 00:23:27.319
didn't hurt, you know, because they were, they

00:23:27.319 --> 00:23:29.279
saw it firsthand when we were building things

00:23:29.279 --> 00:23:31.339
and they, and they wanted it, which was nice.

00:23:32.140 --> 00:23:36.339
How did you gravitate to Gibtown? From the shows,

00:23:36.420 --> 00:23:39.279
is that where you're at? Well, no, no. It goes

00:23:39.279 --> 00:23:44.859
way back beyond before that. Years ago, I was

00:23:44.859 --> 00:23:47.799
still clowning. I clown for a while. I worked

00:23:47.799 --> 00:23:50.480
for Stu and Sarah Miller on their big magic show.

00:23:51.180 --> 00:23:52.980
Merlin and Audrey Johnson were the promoters

00:23:52.980 --> 00:23:56.359
for that. And it was a big magic stage show like

00:23:56.359 --> 00:23:59.119
Thurston had back in the day in Blackstone. And

00:23:59.119 --> 00:24:04.019
it was a little dated. for what it was, he went

00:24:04.019 --> 00:24:06.759
way back, and that was his style of magic, tuxedo

00:24:06.759 --> 00:24:10.559
and top. And he always talked about Gibson, too.

00:24:10.720 --> 00:24:13.940
Well, make a long story longer, we were working

00:24:13.940 --> 00:24:18.779
in Sarasota at the Fresno Circus of the year,

00:24:19.099 --> 00:24:21.279
and we were looking around, staying in Sarasota.

00:24:22.400 --> 00:24:26.420
My thing was, as a circus act, you had to live

00:24:26.420 --> 00:24:30.970
in tropical, not tropical, Desoto Acres. in Sarasota.

00:24:31.089 --> 00:24:34.049
It was all two acre home sites just outside of

00:24:34.049 --> 00:24:37.710
downtown Sarasota. So just because of what, it's

00:24:37.710 --> 00:24:39.430
like buying an Airstream trailer when everybody

00:24:39.430 --> 00:24:42.450
else has one and you don't, you know what I mean?

00:24:42.529 --> 00:24:45.650
You have a Shasta trailer. Those are trailers

00:24:45.650 --> 00:24:50.190
before your time, Rod, but anyway. So that was

00:24:50.190 --> 00:24:51.950
another dream was to always live in Sarasota.

00:24:51.990 --> 00:24:54.849
And the fact we were buying a house from Pee

00:24:54.849 --> 00:24:57.490
Wee Herman's parents, Paul Rubin's parents. They

00:24:57.490 --> 00:24:59.589
had a house right where we were talking about.

00:24:59.759 --> 00:25:01.799
And it was fabulous. And they just kept dropping

00:25:01.799 --> 00:25:03.819
the price. We want circus people there. We want

00:25:03.819 --> 00:25:06.039
circus people there. Paul would love it. Paul

00:25:06.039 --> 00:25:08.079
grew up at Sailor Circus, which is a high school

00:25:08.079 --> 00:25:10.799
in Sarasota. And that's where he's from, Sarasota,

00:25:10.839 --> 00:25:13.579
Bradenton. And anyway, it didn't work out. And

00:25:13.579 --> 00:25:18.240
then the mayor of Sarasota at the time, oh, just

00:25:18.240 --> 00:25:20.200
buy the house. It's great. Put them in. They

00:25:20.200 --> 00:25:22.259
had a big pool. Put them in the pool. I'll come

00:25:22.259 --> 00:25:23.940
swimming with the sea lions because we were able

00:25:23.940 --> 00:25:27.039
to swim with our sea lions. And the zoning guy

00:25:27.039 --> 00:25:30.900
heard about that and made a not so nice, not

00:25:30.900 --> 00:25:33.640
so nice threat that if we did anything, bought

00:25:33.640 --> 00:25:36.440
anything in Sarasota County, you know, he'd run

00:25:36.440 --> 00:25:38.779
us out on the rail and blah, blah, blah. He was

00:25:38.779 --> 00:25:42.220
going to use us as a precedent. So it was two

00:25:42.220 --> 00:25:44.559
nights later, we were working in Sarasota at

00:25:44.559 --> 00:25:47.980
this annual circus down there. And a friend of

00:25:47.980 --> 00:25:49.839
ours that lived up in Gibb town said, you know,

00:25:50.299 --> 00:25:52.440
I got this place over here, it's for sale, blah,

00:25:52.500 --> 00:25:54.500
blah, blah. And she was a circus, retired circus

00:25:54.500 --> 00:25:56.759
person. And her and her husband had chimpanzees.

00:25:57.409 --> 00:26:00.269
So that was a Saturday Sunday. We looked at the

00:26:00.269 --> 00:26:02.549
property Monday morning. We made a deal with

00:26:02.549 --> 00:26:04.829
the woman and Tuesday morning. We closed on it

00:26:04.829 --> 00:26:08.869
was that quick Wow, so that was a humble beginnings

00:26:08.869 --> 00:26:12.869
in Gibson 10. What year is that? What year? Oh

00:26:12.869 --> 00:26:16.109
God, you would ask me that it was I think in

00:26:16.109 --> 00:26:21.750
1980. OK. Was it 80? Yeah, it was an 80. I mean,

00:26:21.750 --> 00:26:23.369
I've been in and out of here, but we just that

00:26:23.369 --> 00:26:25.960
was my first place I bought here. And you really

00:26:25.960 --> 00:26:28.660
dived into the community there. Oh, yeah, I loved

00:26:28.660 --> 00:26:32.119
it. I loved it. I loved it. I love being here.

00:26:32.200 --> 00:26:35.099
I love it. It's my people. You know what's nice

00:26:35.099 --> 00:26:39.400
about here? Even what is false and there's many.

00:26:40.460 --> 00:26:43.579
If something happens to me anywhere within 20

00:26:43.579 --> 00:26:45.200
miles of here, there's somebody that will be

00:26:45.200 --> 00:26:49.240
in my house in 15 minutes. As I would for them,

00:26:49.460 --> 00:26:51.720
no matter it was a death or wedding of truck

00:26:51.720 --> 00:26:53.859
broke or crop that broke, something needs to

00:26:53.859 --> 00:26:57.029
be painted. I mean, we're a very self -sustaining

00:26:57.029 --> 00:26:59.809
community. And as hard as it is to maintain that

00:26:59.809 --> 00:27:02.089
because of all the encroachment of all the developers

00:27:02.089 --> 00:27:05.809
now, it's just we're still here and we're still

00:27:05.809 --> 00:27:09.089
legal. They don't really give out residential

00:27:09.089 --> 00:27:12.309
show business zoning anymore, per se. It's not

00:27:12.309 --> 00:27:14.569
even a zoning in the books. Now it's an overlay.

00:27:15.009 --> 00:27:17.609
And they've watered it down quite a bit. So it

00:27:17.609 --> 00:27:19.630
makes it a little more difficult to live here

00:27:19.630 --> 00:27:23.150
legally. And I say legally because you don't

00:27:23.150 --> 00:27:26.500
want to get run out by you know, any one of the

00:27:26.500 --> 00:27:29.779
agencies that would come down on you. And then

00:27:29.779 --> 00:27:31.819
with the animals, it was lucky because we had

00:27:31.819 --> 00:27:34.619
USDA permits, Fish and Wildlife permits, and

00:27:34.619 --> 00:27:36.619
we have what they call a CITES permit, which

00:27:36.619 --> 00:27:39.920
was Convention for the International Trade of

00:27:39.920 --> 00:27:42.079
Endangered Species. And that was because of the

00:27:42.079 --> 00:27:45.059
sea lions at the time and the baboons. So once

00:27:45.059 --> 00:27:48.240
you put that on your fence, local law enforcement

00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:50.819
had no jurisdiction because now you have federally

00:27:50.819 --> 00:27:55.710
funded and federally licensed facility. So once

00:27:55.710 --> 00:27:57.309
I let all the people with animals know that,

00:27:57.329 --> 00:27:59.210
which I did, we had a big town meeting at my

00:27:59.210 --> 00:28:03.369
house, everybody went that way. And it's been

00:28:03.369 --> 00:28:06.490
fine ever since. Even the carnival people. Mulligan's

00:28:06.490 --> 00:28:08.809
still building wheels out here. Danny Menge,

00:28:08.930 --> 00:28:11.130
for those who know Danny, he's still refurbishing

00:28:11.130 --> 00:28:14.029
rides. Gene Chaffee's working the refurbishing

00:28:14.029 --> 00:28:16.289
rides. So there's a lot of that going on. Bobby

00:28:16.289 --> 00:28:21.920
Myers still has his shops open. It's just, Audie

00:28:21.920 --> 00:28:24.160
Gillette moved his stuff down here from New England.

00:28:24.180 --> 00:28:26.319
He's down here now. So people are still coming

00:28:26.319 --> 00:28:30.640
back. Yeah. And we have the club. I mean, I was

00:28:30.640 --> 00:28:31.819
president of the club. I was going to ask that.

00:28:31.900 --> 00:28:33.700
What was your first association with the club?

00:28:33.720 --> 00:28:35.559
How did you get involved with them? How did you

00:28:35.559 --> 00:28:42.440
find it? Well, actually, to several people. Well,

00:28:42.539 --> 00:28:45.480
Billy Rogers, for one, because he was the liaison

00:28:45.480 --> 00:28:47.880
between the circus and the carnival at the time.

00:28:49.130 --> 00:28:51.089
It was just we always heard about the Showman's

00:28:51.089 --> 00:28:54.390
Club. You know, Sarasota has show folks of Sarasota.

00:28:54.809 --> 00:28:58.269
But so my wife and I, my son was three or four

00:28:58.269 --> 00:29:00.509
months old when we first came in here and we

00:29:00.509 --> 00:29:02.630
joined the club. We were able to join and we

00:29:02.630 --> 00:29:04.369
used to sit at the very back table at the back

00:29:04.369 --> 00:29:06.609
of the room. That was the circus table. Don't

00:29:06.609 --> 00:29:08.210
say nothing. Don't raise your hand and don't

00:29:08.210 --> 00:29:11.650
do nothing. Just sit and listen and get your

00:29:11.650 --> 00:29:13.789
two dollar dinner or whatever it was at the time.

00:29:14.910 --> 00:29:17.269
But over time, people got to know me and I just.

00:29:17.500 --> 00:29:20.019
I started volunteering for things, so I never

00:29:20.019 --> 00:29:22.960
said no to somebody. I loved it, and I still

00:29:22.960 --> 00:29:25.799
love it. It really is a magical place. I mean,

00:29:25.799 --> 00:29:28.180
you know, from going there over the years when

00:29:28.180 --> 00:29:30.680
Steve Ianni was president, because he's a good

00:29:30.680 --> 00:29:34.039
friend, I learned a lot about the things that

00:29:34.039 --> 00:29:39.039
went on. But that club, it's like its whole world.

00:29:39.240 --> 00:29:41.000
You know, it really is. It's really neat. The

00:29:41.000 --> 00:29:43.660
people that are involved, the relationships that

00:29:43.660 --> 00:29:47.880
have gone on for so long. the way you come together

00:29:47.880 --> 00:29:50.720
as a community, the way there's something for

00:29:50.720 --> 00:29:53.480
everyone, you know, even, you know, the showman's

00:29:53.480 --> 00:29:55.660
rest home or the people that live there, you

00:29:55.660 --> 00:29:57.500
know, we saw, I saw it when the hurricane or

00:29:57.500 --> 00:29:59.079
whatever it was, the storm came through this

00:29:59.079 --> 00:30:02.480
year, you know, Teresa or whoever, you know,

00:30:02.500 --> 00:30:04.380
had to evacuate because they were under your

00:30:04.380 --> 00:30:06.000
care, you know, but you guys all took care of

00:30:06.000 --> 00:30:08.579
you, evacuated everybody, made sure they were

00:30:08.579 --> 00:30:11.480
okay during the storm and then got them back

00:30:11.480 --> 00:30:14.480
there. And it's really, it's incredible what

00:30:14.480 --> 00:30:18.180
goes on. And she does a great job with them.

00:30:18.440 --> 00:30:20.460
They have a place to go, someone to complain

00:30:20.460 --> 00:30:22.339
to, someone to pay the rent to, someone to look

00:30:22.339 --> 00:30:26.259
after them. And that works really well. We lowered

00:30:26.259 --> 00:30:29.980
some of the criteria because there was a lot

00:30:29.980 --> 00:30:32.500
of people that were not quite old enough, but

00:30:32.500 --> 00:30:34.920
they were on disability for whatever reasons.

00:30:35.259 --> 00:30:37.880
So we opened the doors a little wider. Now I'm

00:30:37.880 --> 00:30:39.720
happy to say we have a full house over there.

00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:42.539
That's wonderful. And we have several actually

00:30:42.539 --> 00:30:45.779
permanent trailer sites now that we've been renting

00:30:45.779 --> 00:30:48.079
out, which is across the street, which that worked

00:30:48.079 --> 00:30:50.140
out well. And I'm also an executive. A lot of

00:30:50.140 --> 00:30:51.640
people camped during the trade show this year.

00:30:51.880 --> 00:30:54.640
Yeah, I'm sorry? A lot of people camped during

00:30:54.640 --> 00:30:56.920
the trade show this year, which is... Lots, more

00:30:56.920 --> 00:30:59.700
than ever, more than ever. That's been great

00:30:59.700 --> 00:31:01.440
because people can spend, they can come here

00:31:01.440 --> 00:31:04.140
and they can stay here longer and go to Disney

00:31:04.140 --> 00:31:05.960
or Bush or whatever they want to do and make

00:31:05.960 --> 00:31:09.180
it a family vacation, which is what it used to

00:31:09.180 --> 00:31:11.759
be, if you remember. You know, we have a five

00:31:11.759 --> 00:31:14.480
-acre parking lot up the street here that there

00:31:14.480 --> 00:31:16.819
was not even any parking left. You had to go

00:31:16.819 --> 00:31:19.099
park even further and take a bus to get to the

00:31:19.099 --> 00:31:21.700
train show. Well, you know, things have changed

00:31:21.700 --> 00:31:27.039
over the years with the internet and all those

00:31:27.039 --> 00:31:29.900
things going on now and the cost of trying to

00:31:29.900 --> 00:31:31.859
build something and bring it here and then sell

00:31:31.859 --> 00:31:36.180
it. Our world has changed quite a bit. Not for

00:31:36.180 --> 00:31:39.039
the worse, it's just changed. And those of us

00:31:39.039 --> 00:31:42.079
that will change with it will go on to succeed.

00:31:42.269 --> 00:31:44.970
If you want to fight the change, it'll eat you

00:31:44.970 --> 00:31:47.369
up and swallow you. And that's any business,

00:31:47.809 --> 00:31:49.589
anywhere. That's anything. That's just life.

00:31:50.650 --> 00:31:54.049
What I love about here, but I was going to also

00:31:54.049 --> 00:31:57.410
mention that I'm the executive director of the

00:31:57.410 --> 00:31:59.670
show People's Winter Quarters, which is right

00:31:59.670 --> 00:32:03.849
over by Lazy Days on I -4. And we modeled it

00:32:03.849 --> 00:32:08.930
after the showman's museum, excuse me, the showman's

00:32:08.930 --> 00:32:11.700
SRV here. It's for people that have their own

00:32:11.700 --> 00:32:15.599
equipment, but nowhere to live. And so we have

00:32:15.599 --> 00:32:18.099
reduced rates for senior citizens. It's the same

00:32:18.099 --> 00:32:21.680
model. You pay a percentage of your social security

00:32:21.680 --> 00:32:24.480
card or a percentage of your disability where

00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:26.200
you could afford to live there, buy groceries

00:32:26.200 --> 00:32:28.559
and still have some dignity. So that's worked

00:32:28.559 --> 00:32:31.799
out real well. I'm really happy with that. A

00:32:31.799 --> 00:32:33.940
gentleman named Michael Rafflow is my manager

00:32:33.940 --> 00:32:37.019
there. He lives on site. He's doing a great job.

00:32:37.599 --> 00:32:40.569
He needs a plug. I think he does. He's a good

00:32:40.569 --> 00:32:43.410
guy. He turned out to be really a good guy for

00:32:43.410 --> 00:32:47.349
the park as well. He loves the place, and he

00:32:47.349 --> 00:32:49.829
wants to see it prosper and grow. I just had

00:32:49.829 --> 00:32:54.430
five more sites put up there. I had to fight

00:32:54.430 --> 00:32:56.609
the county. Everybody said you couldn't do it,

00:32:56.609 --> 00:32:59.269
but I found a way to double the occupancy, so

00:32:59.269 --> 00:33:02.490
we have room for 15 trailers, which is great.

00:33:03.950 --> 00:33:06.210
And I was president of the club twice. I mean,

00:33:06.309 --> 00:33:10.289
here I go with my medals, right? So I was the

00:33:10.289 --> 00:33:12.569
only only person me and my wife were ever to

00:33:12.569 --> 00:33:14.369
ride through the club with an elephant. I will

00:33:14.369 --> 00:33:19.369
say that You brought the circus there too, right

00:33:19.369 --> 00:33:21.809
that night we did for sure big -time. Oh, yeah.

00:33:22.589 --> 00:33:25.769
Oh, yeah It was a that was a pretty wild night

00:33:25.769 --> 00:33:28.869
and I love the place Like I said, you know, I

00:33:28.869 --> 00:33:30.990
still do anything and everything I can for the

00:33:30.990 --> 00:33:33.750
club. That's where my heart is that I still put

00:33:33.750 --> 00:33:38.740
I do the Charity circus I do every year You're

00:33:38.740 --> 00:33:42.180
the MC, right? 33 years, yeah. I do it all, I

00:33:42.180 --> 00:33:45.680
produce it. I book all the acts, procure the

00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:51.619
tent, the equipment, all of that. Yep. And I

00:33:51.619 --> 00:33:55.220
MC it. I do a little homestyle MC. And before

00:33:55.220 --> 00:33:57.200
I bring in the actual ringmaster, I always have

00:33:57.200 --> 00:34:00.660
a guest ringmaster. And most guys want to perform

00:34:00.660 --> 00:34:04.000
here. The audience is so great, it just is. You

00:34:04.000 --> 00:34:06.180
can go to Sarasota and have the exact same show.

00:34:06.380 --> 00:34:08.699
And you have half the audience is retired circus

00:34:08.699 --> 00:34:11.059
people that just knocking and cut everybody's

00:34:11.059 --> 00:34:14.539
strokes. You know, it's just a thing of the business,

00:34:14.840 --> 00:34:16.659
of the entertainment business. And it goes through

00:34:16.659 --> 00:34:18.679
all the entertainment business, not just the

00:34:18.679 --> 00:34:21.139
circus. There's so much jealousy. People don't

00:34:21.139 --> 00:34:23.579
realize that happened in Hollywood, on TV, wherever

00:34:23.579 --> 00:34:27.940
you go, because it's all about egos. And get

00:34:27.940 --> 00:34:30.360
down. The ego is how much money do you have?

00:34:32.340 --> 00:34:34.760
You know, it's how big is your house trailer,

00:34:34.760 --> 00:34:39.070
you know? It's incredible what you guys do there.

00:34:39.070 --> 00:34:41.889
I mean, there's just so many activities and so

00:34:41.889 --> 00:34:44.730
many fundraising activities and so much good

00:34:44.730 --> 00:34:47.530
you do on a daily basis with things. Because

00:34:47.530 --> 00:34:49.130
even the meals like you described before, you

00:34:49.130 --> 00:34:51.630
could eat for $2 or whatever else. I mean, that's

00:34:51.630 --> 00:34:54.610
a real blessing to so many people who come off

00:34:54.610 --> 00:34:56.309
the road and maybe don't have a lot of money.

00:34:56.309 --> 00:35:00.429
They get fed cheaply at the club with a nutritious

00:35:00.429 --> 00:35:04.110
meal, home cooked or whatever. One of my things

00:35:04.110 --> 00:35:07.159
when I was president both times was to always

00:35:07.159 --> 00:35:11.920
include the people who felt left out. You know,

00:35:12.079 --> 00:35:15.099
there's a whole section of people that they don't

00:35:15.099 --> 00:35:17.239
have the money to spend every night. They can't

00:35:17.239 --> 00:35:20.719
contribute to every fundraiser. They just can't.

00:35:20.860 --> 00:35:22.820
But I've always included them in some kind of

00:35:22.820 --> 00:35:25.159
contest or door prize winnings or something like

00:35:25.159 --> 00:35:27.460
that. Or I'd always mention them from the diocese.

00:35:27.480 --> 00:35:30.079
So and so tonight, you know, just to make them

00:35:30.079 --> 00:35:34.039
feel that if $25 at the time wasn't wasted, that

00:35:34.039 --> 00:35:36.159
they're still part of the club. And those are

00:35:36.159 --> 00:35:37.860
the people that you call them for anything, they'll

00:35:37.860 --> 00:35:40.039
be right there because you recognize them. And

00:35:40.039 --> 00:35:42.659
that's all anybody wants is just to be recognized

00:35:42.659 --> 00:35:44.940
when it's all said and done. But that's kind

00:35:44.940 --> 00:35:47.780
of like how that show, that place was founded,

00:35:48.039 --> 00:35:50.139
and correct me if I'm wrong, but you know, you

00:35:50.139 --> 00:35:52.760
had the club in Tampa that was for the show owners,

00:35:53.360 --> 00:35:56.320
you know, their club, and then the people that

00:35:56.320 --> 00:35:59.619
were sort of left out, the independents, concessionaires,

00:35:59.900 --> 00:36:02.340
all those people decided to do their own club,

00:36:02.420 --> 00:36:04.800
right, and give town and look who's left standing.

00:36:05.490 --> 00:36:09.389
sideshow people. We never precluded any of them

00:36:09.389 --> 00:36:11.750
from being part of the book. And that's long

00:36:11.750 --> 00:36:15.590
before me. Listen, they founded the town for

00:36:15.590 --> 00:36:20.750
Grand Halal. They really did. I mean, Mays Huck

00:36:20.750 --> 00:36:23.210
was here long before Jeannie and Al Tumaney.

00:36:23.530 --> 00:36:26.170
However, when Jeannie and Al moved here, they

00:36:26.170 --> 00:36:28.469
gave a safe haven for all the sideshow people,

00:36:28.969 --> 00:36:31.250
all the oddities or whatever. I don't use the

00:36:31.250 --> 00:36:32.909
word freaks. They don't mind it, but I don't

00:36:32.909 --> 00:36:37.000
use it. And they felt that Priscilla didn't have

00:36:37.000 --> 00:36:39.800
to shave here. She could be herself. Emmett could

00:36:39.800 --> 00:36:42.800
be himself. A lot of the little people, nobody

00:36:42.800 --> 00:36:45.059
looked twice at them. They were just part of

00:36:45.059 --> 00:36:48.380
the fabric of the town. Styles? They're all gone.

00:36:48.500 --> 00:36:51.420
Most of them are gone. And you can watch the

00:36:51.420 --> 00:36:53.139
Discovery Channel now and see the girl with two

00:36:53.139 --> 00:36:55.860
heads, the lady with no legs, the kid with no

00:36:55.860 --> 00:36:59.539
arm. I mean, it's all over TV anymore. So people

00:36:59.539 --> 00:37:02.760
didn't kill the sideshow. TV did. Movies did.

00:37:04.860 --> 00:37:07.239
Yeah, it's quite the colorful history and they,

00:37:07.280 --> 00:37:09.179
you know, you try to preserve that quite a bit

00:37:09.179 --> 00:37:12.679
too. Oh, yeah, and we do. At the museum here

00:37:12.679 --> 00:37:16.099
we have a tribute to every type of outdoor entertainment

00:37:16.099 --> 00:37:18.440
that there is. You know, we have Wild West shows.

00:37:18.559 --> 00:37:21.800
We have minstrel shows. We have the biggest carnivals

00:37:21.800 --> 00:37:24.679
and the smallest carnivals. We have circus acts.

00:37:24.719 --> 00:37:27.559
We have different circus shows that are recognized

00:37:27.559 --> 00:37:31.000
in here. So this is a fabulous melting pot of

00:37:31.000 --> 00:37:34.610
a museum. It really is. And I have to say, Dr.

00:37:34.909 --> 00:37:38.710
Rivera did an outstanding job with the exhibits

00:37:38.710 --> 00:37:43.590
and everything. He excelled in that. He was an

00:37:43.590 --> 00:37:45.550
artist. I don't know if anybody realized what

00:37:45.550 --> 00:37:48.690
a brilliant artist that he was. A true -to -life

00:37:48.690 --> 00:37:52.469
artist. And his thing was to paint train shows

00:37:52.469 --> 00:37:55.190
with steam locomotives and smoke billowing out.

00:37:56.710 --> 00:37:59.110
The guy was a brilliant man. He had a great eye.

00:37:59.150 --> 00:38:01.530
He really did. I don't think many people realized

00:38:01.530 --> 00:38:04.079
that. The exhibits look good there. They definitely

00:38:04.079 --> 00:38:09.960
look good. So how did you come to be asked or

00:38:09.960 --> 00:38:12.539
be offered the opportunity to curate the museum?

00:38:12.639 --> 00:38:15.059
How did that come about? Well, actually, I'm

00:38:15.059 --> 00:38:17.699
not so much a curator as I am executive directors.

00:38:18.239 --> 00:38:20.079
Executive director, OK. Yeah, it's kind of two

00:38:20.079 --> 00:38:22.579
different hats. Where Doc is really a curator

00:38:22.579 --> 00:38:25.760
of the exhibit. And I'm more the director of

00:38:25.760 --> 00:38:28.440
trying to put people through the doors now and

00:38:28.440 --> 00:38:31.239
just. do some changes here, cosmetic changes

00:38:31.239 --> 00:38:34.360
to the building and making it more accessible

00:38:34.360 --> 00:38:36.960
to the public, more entertaining even from the

00:38:36.960 --> 00:38:40.599
outside, put a new spin on the look of it. Otherwise

00:38:40.599 --> 00:38:43.760
it looks like an empty warehouse. And there was

00:38:43.760 --> 00:38:46.260
a reason for behind that at the time. People

00:38:46.260 --> 00:38:48.820
were trying to downplay the sideshow aspect of

00:38:48.820 --> 00:38:51.519
it when in fact that's what the public basically

00:38:51.519 --> 00:38:57.199
wants to see. They want to feel that. And the

00:38:57.199 --> 00:39:00.840
girl shows and the reviews. You know, I get a

00:39:00.840 --> 00:39:04.340
kick out of doing the tours just because I can

00:39:04.340 --> 00:39:07.519
tell everybody the names of the people that are

00:39:07.519 --> 00:39:10.739
being displayed on the stages, you know, in wax

00:39:10.739 --> 00:39:14.980
or mannequin forms. And I had a relationship

00:39:14.980 --> 00:39:16.780
with most of those people, so it's kind of neat.

00:39:17.519 --> 00:39:19.940
And the people here that come here love it. They

00:39:19.940 --> 00:39:22.219
absolutely love it. It's nothing what they expected.

00:39:23.369 --> 00:39:25.369
Now I'm working on a group of women that are

00:39:25.369 --> 00:39:27.329
Sun City, retired ladies that are going to come

00:39:27.329 --> 00:39:29.849
in and just do light housekeeping, dusting and

00:39:29.849 --> 00:39:33.110
volunteer. You know, you buy them a lunch and

00:39:33.110 --> 00:39:35.630
you make them feel like they have a purpose.

00:39:35.789 --> 00:39:37.170
You know, they can come out. Like if they're

00:39:37.170 --> 00:39:38.869
too old to work in the hospital, they can certainly

00:39:38.869 --> 00:39:42.429
work here. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. So what

00:39:42.429 --> 00:39:44.250
are some of your plans for the museum for the

00:39:44.250 --> 00:39:46.730
future? And, you know, where do you see it going?

00:39:47.710 --> 00:39:50.559
Well, I just see it getting bigger. and better.

00:39:50.780 --> 00:39:52.639
We already have plans in the works. We're waiting

00:39:52.639 --> 00:39:54.480
on the permits. We're adding another extension

00:39:54.480 --> 00:39:56.880
to the back of the building to basically put

00:39:56.880 --> 00:40:00.559
the wagons from sitting outside or just disintegrating.

00:40:00.900 --> 00:40:02.599
So we're going to try to have that and have a

00:40:02.599 --> 00:40:05.780
restoration building. Similar to the one that

00:40:05.780 --> 00:40:08.559
many people might not be familiar with, Circus

00:40:08.559 --> 00:40:11.360
World Museum in Baraboo, but they have a whole

00:40:11.360 --> 00:40:18.940
volunteer -based working repair shop and restorative

00:40:19.789 --> 00:40:21.750
demonstrations, how they restored circus wagons,

00:40:21.989 --> 00:40:24.690
circus wheels. So it's, we don't have that kind

00:40:24.690 --> 00:40:27.090
of base here yet. You know, there's a whole group

00:40:27.090 --> 00:40:29.769
of people called Circus Fans of America, and

00:40:29.769 --> 00:40:31.969
what they are is they're groupies for the circus.

00:40:32.630 --> 00:40:35.389
And they've done a tremendous, a lot of good

00:40:35.389 --> 00:40:37.010
backs behind the scenes, you know, they help

00:40:37.010 --> 00:40:38.690
people get to learn the math, they know this,

00:40:38.789 --> 00:40:41.070
they do that. Anybody needs to ride somewhere,

00:40:41.130 --> 00:40:43.210
but they also volunteer at the museum, and it's

00:40:43.210 --> 00:40:47.239
a big workforce up at that museum. And just simple

00:40:47.239 --> 00:40:49.599
things. They'll paint the railings, paint fences,

00:40:50.239 --> 00:40:52.780
just keep the place clean and spruced up. And

00:40:52.780 --> 00:40:56.619
that's my goal here is to keep it user -friendly,

00:40:56.960 --> 00:41:00.539
spruced up. I want to put a few more hands -on

00:41:00.539 --> 00:41:04.119
exhibits in here. There's not a whole lot for

00:41:04.119 --> 00:41:07.139
small children to do here. So there's some things

00:41:07.139 --> 00:41:09.820
I like to implement and get that started over

00:41:09.820 --> 00:41:14.619
time. I have a lot of ideas. Is there any thought

00:41:14.619 --> 00:41:17.780
to actually doing some live shows, whether it's

00:41:17.780 --> 00:41:20.659
sword swallowing or some of the... Well, maybe

00:41:20.659 --> 00:41:24.119
on a special occasion, not on a regular basis,

00:41:24.139 --> 00:41:26.360
but maybe if I have a big enough group that would

00:41:26.360 --> 00:41:29.659
be interested in that. Certainly I have a go

00:41:29.659 --> 00:41:32.480
-to person here in town, which he'd be more than

00:41:32.480 --> 00:41:35.539
happy to do it. So it'd be great. And you asked

00:41:35.539 --> 00:41:38.000
me about how I was asked. I've been on the committee

00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:43.840
forever. It just came about, you know, I've always

00:41:43.840 --> 00:41:46.880
been the official, unofficial spokesman for the

00:41:46.880 --> 00:41:49.760
club. You know, I do all the TV, the radio, whatever

00:41:49.760 --> 00:41:52.400
has to be done, or I meet with the commissioners,

00:41:52.460 --> 00:41:55.059
or I go downtown zoning and different things

00:41:55.059 --> 00:41:58.320
on behalf of the club. So it just kind of, it

00:41:58.320 --> 00:42:00.239
came to me after Doc passed away, they needed

00:42:00.239 --> 00:42:03.039
somebody to do it. Well, they thought they had

00:42:03.039 --> 00:42:07.239
somebody, two people actually, and then for whatever

00:42:07.239 --> 00:42:10.099
reasons, they both backed out on the 11th hour

00:42:10.099 --> 00:42:12.739
of coming down. So they found themselves without

00:42:12.739 --> 00:42:20.500
a director here. Tom Galen, who is the vice president

00:42:20.500 --> 00:42:23.639
of the Museum Corporation, along with Tom I.

00:42:23.659 --> 00:42:25.920
Arnold and several other people, Jim Fredrickson

00:42:25.920 --> 00:42:31.099
and some other, David Starkey. I'm trying to

00:42:31.099 --> 00:42:33.239
go down the list and I'll leave people out. I

00:42:33.239 --> 00:42:36.880
don't mean to, but. The usual suspects. Jim Elliott.

00:42:37.820 --> 00:42:42.219
Jim Elliott's been a big, big booster. They kind

00:42:42.219 --> 00:42:44.340
of got together when they discussed it, and they

00:42:44.340 --> 00:42:46.739
asked me if I would be interested. And I said,

00:42:46.739 --> 00:42:48.900
OK, let me think about it. And they said, no,

00:42:48.980 --> 00:42:51.280
we want you. And especially Tom Galen pushed

00:42:51.280 --> 00:42:56.460
me in. He lied and cajoled to me. He wrestled

00:42:56.460 --> 00:43:01.260
you. You know him. Don't get too close to him.

00:43:01.280 --> 00:43:03.079
He can't help it. Old habits. He just wants to

00:43:03.079 --> 00:43:06.679
put you in the headlock and throw you down. He's

00:43:06.679 --> 00:43:08.980
from Maryland. I'm from Virginia. Don't call

00:43:08.980 --> 00:43:15.949
him Little. No. I made that mistake. He accepted

00:43:15.949 --> 00:43:17.789
the word bastard, but he didn't want the little

00:43:17.789 --> 00:43:22.070
part of it. He's from Maryland, and I live in

00:43:22.070 --> 00:43:24.989
Virginia now. He's big in the wrestling community.

00:43:25.090 --> 00:43:27.010
I know some people that were in wrestling, and

00:43:27.010 --> 00:43:29.010
they knew him. And, of course, I knew him from

00:43:29.010 --> 00:43:31.889
somewhere else, but yeah, he's... Yeah, no, seriously,

00:43:32.090 --> 00:43:35.579
he's... He was inductee in the Ring of Fame,

00:43:35.980 --> 00:43:38.880
their Hall of Fame, and he's done quite a bit.

00:43:38.880 --> 00:43:41.139
He was president of the whole Wrestling Association

00:43:41.139 --> 00:43:43.500
of North America for 10 or 11 years. I mean,

00:43:43.559 --> 00:43:47.400
he's done a lot, an awful lot. And that's a whole

00:43:47.400 --> 00:43:49.420
side that most people don't know about him, you

00:43:49.420 --> 00:43:52.820
know? That's what I'm fascinated by, the other

00:43:52.820 --> 00:43:56.239
sides of people, what they do outside. I don't

00:43:56.239 --> 00:44:01.110
want to get knocked off the chair. So they've

00:44:01.110 --> 00:44:03.369
tasked you with with because because getting

00:44:03.369 --> 00:44:07.630
the word out about it and explaining why it's

00:44:07.630 --> 00:44:10.389
such a great time to go there is really that's

00:44:10.389 --> 00:44:11.929
sort of the hard part right because you got to

00:44:11.929 --> 00:44:15.510
put yourself in the general public shoes and

00:44:15.510 --> 00:44:17.789
Think about why do I want to go there? Why do

00:44:17.789 --> 00:44:20.949
I want to make the trek to exactly? And then

00:44:20.949 --> 00:44:23.150
what is there to see that's gonna interest me?

00:44:23.230 --> 00:44:25.889
I've even just gotten a rebranding the whole

00:44:25.889 --> 00:44:29.420
place. It's no longer the International Independence

00:44:29.420 --> 00:44:32.619
Showman's Association, Carnival Museum, or Museum

00:44:32.619 --> 00:44:34.800
of the Carp, or whatever it was. It was like

00:44:34.800 --> 00:44:36.199
it went on forever. You couldn't even put that

00:44:36.199 --> 00:44:38.559
on the business card. Hi, how do they answer

00:44:38.559 --> 00:44:41.000
the phone that way? Well, they don't. It was

00:44:41.000 --> 00:44:44.380
long telephone answering things. Yeah, but the

00:44:44.380 --> 00:44:47.599
public has no idea what a showman's museum is.

00:44:48.119 --> 00:44:51.119
We all know, if you're in the business, any one

00:44:51.119 --> 00:44:52.980
of our businesses, you know what a showman is.

00:44:53.320 --> 00:44:55.630
But the public has no clue. But that happens

00:44:55.630 --> 00:44:57.610
with everything when you're doing a fair or something

00:44:57.610 --> 00:44:59.670
like that. We used to talk with the fair manager

00:44:59.670 --> 00:45:02.510
on a podcast not too long ago. And we'll do things

00:45:02.510 --> 00:45:05.150
like, oh, go to gate 12. I don't know what gate

00:45:05.150 --> 00:45:06.809
12 is. I've never been to this place before.

00:45:06.909 --> 00:45:09.409
I have no idea. Or go by the thing over there.

00:45:09.489 --> 00:45:11.590
And I was like, what's that? You got to put yourself

00:45:11.590 --> 00:45:13.789
in the general. They don't know that stuff. And

00:45:13.789 --> 00:45:15.510
you know where you're living. You're there all

00:45:15.510 --> 00:45:18.030
the time. So you just assume. But you've got

00:45:18.030 --> 00:45:21.900
to really divorce yourself of all that. when

00:45:21.900 --> 00:45:23.360
you used to have to write instructions on how

00:45:23.360 --> 00:45:24.980
to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, you

00:45:24.980 --> 00:45:27.239
know, like in school and, you know, people would

00:45:27.239 --> 00:45:29.460
write it down and then they'd mess it up because

00:45:29.460 --> 00:45:31.159
the instructions would be so bad. You got to

00:45:31.159 --> 00:45:33.199
really pretend you know nothing and start from

00:45:33.199 --> 00:45:35.780
the beginning and move on up. Yep, very true.

00:45:35.800 --> 00:45:40.679
So now we will be known as the Carnival World

00:45:40.679 --> 00:45:44.300
Museum. OK, simple to the point. It tells the

00:45:44.300 --> 00:45:47.300
public who we what we are. You know, all the

00:45:47.300 --> 00:45:49.460
other accolades is all wonderful and whatever.

00:45:49.820 --> 00:45:51.860
But that's who we are now. We're the Carnival

00:45:51.860 --> 00:45:57.380
World Museum. That's the official name. Is that

00:45:57.380 --> 00:46:03.440
your phone? No. No. It's your phone. I apologize.

00:46:04.260 --> 00:46:07.039
They're all calling you already. I've been on

00:46:07.039 --> 00:46:11.559
call. So the Carnival World Museum. I think that's

00:46:11.559 --> 00:46:13.980
a good name for it. And when are you open right

00:46:13.980 --> 00:46:16.920
now? Like just on the weekend still? Yep, well,

00:46:16.920 --> 00:46:19.500
all our hours now, we have formal hours. They're

00:46:19.500 --> 00:46:22.420
Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, 12 to 5.

00:46:23.679 --> 00:46:27.539
We have guided tours. I'm not locked into how

00:46:27.539 --> 00:46:30.239
many or what size the groups have to be. It would

00:46:30.239 --> 00:46:32.780
be nice to have 10 or more, but if they're not,

00:46:32.920 --> 00:46:35.679
they're not. And with that, I just like them

00:46:35.679 --> 00:46:37.699
to call ahead at least a week ahead or so to

00:46:37.699 --> 00:46:40.400
make sure that I or somebody's here to do the

00:46:40.400 --> 00:46:47.699
tour. And we're at 69, 38. Riverview Drive, Riverview,

00:46:48.280 --> 00:46:52.679
Florida, 33578. However, it's still the heart

00:46:52.679 --> 00:46:57.099
of Gibb town. That's right. Can't miss it. You

00:46:57.099 --> 00:46:59.219
have a wonderful collection, too, because I was

00:46:59.219 --> 00:47:03.619
up there during the show a few weeks ago. How

00:47:03.619 --> 00:47:05.800
many ABs do you have there? You have every one

00:47:05.800 --> 00:47:09.559
from... I think there's one copy from every year

00:47:09.559 --> 00:47:12.659
it's ever been published as amusement business.

00:47:12.739 --> 00:47:15.570
Before that, it was the billboard. and we have

00:47:15.570 --> 00:47:18.570
some of those too. Is that for research or what

00:47:18.570 --> 00:47:20.230
are those there for? Can you look through those

00:47:20.230 --> 00:47:23.170
or what's the deal? Well, it's just to keep them,

00:47:23.829 --> 00:47:27.130
show the history, number one. For a while, Jim

00:47:27.130 --> 00:47:28.969
Elliott was going through the older ones and

00:47:28.969 --> 00:47:31.510
he was writing what happened a particular day,

00:47:31.690 --> 00:47:35.309
like today's March 25th. He would say, today,

00:47:35.449 --> 00:47:39.170
March 25th, 1931, you know, then this is what

00:47:39.170 --> 00:47:41.610
happened. And he'd name the shows or what happened

00:47:41.610 --> 00:47:44.250
or train wrecks or whatever. It was a very neat

00:47:44.250 --> 00:47:46.090
thing that he did, but he stopped doing it. He

00:47:46.090 --> 00:47:48.969
had some health issues, and he just stopped doing

00:47:48.969 --> 00:47:51.309
it. But they're up there for anybody. They're

00:47:51.309 --> 00:47:54.210
for research. They answer your question shortly.

00:47:54.210 --> 00:47:55.889
Yeah, I was trying to go look at them, but it

00:47:55.889 --> 00:47:57.809
said, don't touch. So I was nervous to pick one

00:47:57.809 --> 00:48:01.929
up. I'm fascinated by those old ABs. I love to

00:48:01.929 --> 00:48:04.690
read through them. People don't realize, and

00:48:04.690 --> 00:48:08.110
even people here don't realize, any of that paper

00:48:08.110 --> 00:48:10.369
or artifacts have to be handled with white gloves.

00:48:10.610 --> 00:48:15.320
Yeah. It really should be put in acid -free containers

00:48:15.320 --> 00:48:18.300
of some kind to preserve the paper. The paper

00:48:18.300 --> 00:48:23.079
is very delicate, as you well know. So that's

00:48:23.079 --> 00:48:25.099
why they're a little bit touchy about touching

00:48:25.099 --> 00:48:27.320
the actual newspaper, unless one of us is there

00:48:27.320 --> 00:48:29.980
with you, just to help you through it. Instead

00:48:29.980 --> 00:48:33.079
of just flipping through pages. You'd be surprised

00:48:33.079 --> 00:48:35.340
how many people rip stuff out because they see

00:48:35.340 --> 00:48:37.639
their great -grandfather's name on it, so they

00:48:37.639 --> 00:48:40.019
just rip it out. Like a phone number, you need

00:48:40.019 --> 00:48:44.280
one number, you take the whole damn page. Yeah,

00:48:44.480 --> 00:48:48.400
just, you know, it's fascinating. And of course,

00:48:48.480 --> 00:48:52.980
you know, sort of being a, you know, a child

00:48:52.980 --> 00:48:56.239
of, I'm talking about a music warehouse and carnival

00:48:56.239 --> 00:48:59.239
warehouse, you know, down that line from that,

00:48:59.239 --> 00:49:02.719
it's fascinating to see how things were, you

00:49:02.719 --> 00:49:05.800
know, just to inform myself about, you know,

00:49:05.960 --> 00:49:08.750
think about how things were reported then. Yeah,

00:49:08.750 --> 00:49:10.550
you know how we should be doing things now. It's

00:49:10.550 --> 00:49:12.690
it's really uh, I love looking through the old

00:49:12.690 --> 00:49:15.250
stuff because it's it's fascinating to read and

00:49:15.250 --> 00:49:18.570
to see how things were Were reported and and

00:49:18.570 --> 00:49:20.550
you know, what was important back then and what's

00:49:20.550 --> 00:49:22.969
important now and all the history is fascinating

00:49:22.969 --> 00:49:27.329
to me We have a ride manual for almost every

00:49:27.329 --> 00:49:32.010
ride manufactured up until about five years ago

00:49:32.010 --> 00:49:35.230
That we have manuals a complete a complete library

00:49:35.230 --> 00:49:38.780
of ride manuals. Well maybe some guy needs to

00:49:38.780 --> 00:49:40.760
know about that. Some guy local wants to know,

00:49:40.760 --> 00:49:42.619
you know, what kind of pin to use or what kind

00:49:42.619 --> 00:49:46.420
of RPMs on the motors or whatever the original

00:49:46.420 --> 00:49:50.780
stats called for, you know. I donated years and

00:49:50.780 --> 00:49:54.519
years ago, a friend of mine was an avid collector

00:49:54.519 --> 00:50:00.760
and he also found a way to endear himself to

00:50:00.760 --> 00:50:03.300
some older people and got their collections as

00:50:03.300 --> 00:50:05.369
well, but I have... loosely finest. You talked

00:50:05.369 --> 00:50:08.670
about upstairs and we call it the library. They're

00:50:08.670 --> 00:50:12.670
full of complete history of each show in photographs.

00:50:13.309 --> 00:50:16.010
The train into town, the train unloading, what

00:50:16.010 --> 00:50:19.730
cars had what, you know. Take those big railroad

00:50:19.730 --> 00:50:22.610
shows, you know. They carried a lot of stuff

00:50:22.610 --> 00:50:24.989
that trucks couldn't carry. You know, now it's

00:50:24.989 --> 00:50:27.329
all streamlined. Yes, they can. You know, you

00:50:27.329 --> 00:50:29.650
have semis and all these kind of equipment out

00:50:29.650 --> 00:50:31.889
of movement. Back then you had a Chevy C20, you

00:50:31.889 --> 00:50:35.039
know what I mean? single -axle tractor, gas tractor,

00:50:35.420 --> 00:50:37.880
try to go up Mount Eagle with a merry -go -round

00:50:37.880 --> 00:50:40.199
or a ferris wheel and take your day and a half

00:50:40.199 --> 00:50:43.900
without burning the truck up. So those guys,

00:50:44.340 --> 00:50:47.300
all those people were pioneers. They just were.

00:50:48.460 --> 00:50:51.679
And it's with any of our outdoor entertainment.

00:50:51.980 --> 00:50:54.199
I mean, minstrel shows are a thing of the past.

00:50:55.039 --> 00:50:57.199
But there was a time when they traveled by train.

00:50:58.579 --> 00:51:01.739
I know several descendants of some of the biggest

00:51:02.400 --> 00:51:04.519
Dockstead is minstrels and stuff like that that

00:51:04.519 --> 00:51:06.679
are still alive to grandchildren, great grandchildren.

00:51:07.360 --> 00:51:09.639
And it's amazing the history of that trying to

00:51:09.639 --> 00:51:15.539
move all of that. So yeah, it's it's I read the

00:51:15.539 --> 00:51:17.920
you know, there's a few good books out like the

00:51:17.920 --> 00:51:21.739
Concord book I just read by John Thurston was

00:51:21.739 --> 00:51:24.559
a fascinating book to read about the history.

00:51:24.900 --> 00:51:27.739
And you know, I know there's some carnival books

00:51:27.739 --> 00:51:29.980
out there and some of them are decent, but some

00:51:29.980 --> 00:51:32.960
of them, you know, I mean, it was a fan writing

00:51:32.960 --> 00:51:34.760
it. It was not really a professional writer,

00:51:34.940 --> 00:51:37.400
so it lacks a little bit. Whereas Thurston's

00:51:37.400 --> 00:51:39.719
book was really well done. He's a, you know,

00:51:39.719 --> 00:51:42.000
professional writer and there needs to be more

00:51:42.000 --> 00:51:46.480
of that because... Joe McKinnon's books, his

00:51:46.480 --> 00:51:49.940
books, they're an encyclopedia of our business,

00:51:49.960 --> 00:51:53.739
really. And it's amazing how much detail he goes

00:51:53.739 --> 00:51:56.840
in or leaves out of certain subjects, but you

00:51:56.840 --> 00:51:58.920
know what he's saying at the same time. You can

00:51:58.920 --> 00:52:00.780
read right along with him and nobody's telling

00:52:00.780 --> 00:52:05.170
you. His books are great. There's a lot of good

00:52:05.170 --> 00:52:07.349
books. Then you have a lot of schlock, like Water

00:52:07.349 --> 00:52:10.190
for the Elephants. What a disgrace. And it became

00:52:10.190 --> 00:52:12.510
a bestseller. Then a bigger disgrace, it became

00:52:12.510 --> 00:52:14.630
a movie. And then a bigger Dale in the Coffin,

00:52:14.650 --> 00:52:16.989
and now it's a Broadway show. It's a schlock

00:52:16.989 --> 00:52:21.050
story with schlock. It's just terrible. It's

00:52:21.050 --> 00:52:23.730
just terrible. And it's like all these stupid

00:52:23.730 --> 00:52:26.369
books are written. I'm murdered by a clown on

00:52:26.369 --> 00:52:28.429
the sideshow under the boardwalk by the girls

00:52:28.429 --> 00:52:33.599
show. Come on. It's sensualism. It's what the

00:52:33.599 --> 00:52:35.880
public thinks we are. Well, that's what I was

00:52:35.880 --> 00:52:37.820
kind of getting at with you at the circus at

00:52:37.820 --> 00:52:42.219
the beginning is, you know, for a kid to run

00:52:42.219 --> 00:52:44.920
away with a circus like that, you know, people's

00:52:44.920 --> 00:52:47.460
in their minds must dredge up all kinds of horrible

00:52:47.460 --> 00:52:49.579
things that might have happened to you during

00:52:49.579 --> 00:52:53.780
it. But all in all, you learned a lot. You got

00:52:53.780 --> 00:52:57.000
a career. People taught you. People took interest

00:52:57.000 --> 00:52:59.139
in you and made sure you were safe, I guess,

00:52:59.219 --> 00:53:02.039
to a certain extent. coddle you, I'm sure, but

00:53:02.039 --> 00:53:03.920
they, you know, I'm sure if you got in a fight

00:53:03.920 --> 00:53:06.679
or an outsider trying to do something to you,

00:53:06.920 --> 00:53:08.679
they'd be there to protect you, right? I mean,

00:53:08.719 --> 00:53:11.059
it was, it was like joining a family in a way,

00:53:11.059 --> 00:53:14.900
right? Well, exactly. It's, in any of our industries,

00:53:15.119 --> 00:53:18.960
it's, it's an extended family, but they don't

00:53:18.960 --> 00:53:21.199
have so much anymore. I remember a time when

00:53:21.199 --> 00:53:23.960
the wheel went out and everybody jumped underneath

00:53:23.960 --> 00:53:25.679
somebody's awning and sat for another two or

00:53:25.679 --> 00:53:27.719
three hours drinking a beer, telling stories,

00:53:28.079 --> 00:53:31.960
lying to each other, whatever. Just, Jackpotting,

00:53:32.039 --> 00:53:33.480
you know what I mean? We call it jackpotting

00:53:33.480 --> 00:53:37.059
in the circus. And it was great. Now these young

00:53:37.059 --> 00:53:39.059
kids, the wheel goes down, they can't get to

00:53:39.059 --> 00:53:41.079
the trailer fast enough and lock the door, count

00:53:41.079 --> 00:53:43.440
their money and go to bed or whatever they do,

00:53:43.440 --> 00:53:47.480
I don't know. The lifestyle part of it is left

00:53:47.480 --> 00:53:52.179
to us older people. Not that I'm old, but I'm

00:53:52.179 --> 00:53:54.980
from that generation that still remembers that.

00:53:55.360 --> 00:53:57.420
And that's why the club is so important. You

00:53:57.420 --> 00:54:00.469
go back to that full circle. When it comes down

00:54:00.469 --> 00:54:04.389
to it, we are really all we have. You're really

00:54:04.389 --> 00:54:07.110
the last club. I mean, people will argue with

00:54:07.110 --> 00:54:09.670
me all the time as I say this, but you're really

00:54:09.670 --> 00:54:13.230
the true last club left. Because yes, there's

00:54:13.230 --> 00:54:15.190
clubs and they have a meeting and they go somewhere

00:54:15.190 --> 00:54:18.769
once a month or whatever else. But to have a

00:54:18.769 --> 00:54:22.309
club that's really like a place to go every day.

00:54:22.630 --> 00:54:28.760
It's a haven. It's a haven. You know. It's the

00:54:28.760 --> 00:54:31.480
camaraderie, even with people that have no use

00:54:31.480 --> 00:54:36.219
for each other. In the case of a problem, they

00:54:36.219 --> 00:54:38.159
still come and lend a hand. You know what I mean?

00:54:38.619 --> 00:54:41.619
That nobody is lingering. Yes, there's a lot

00:54:41.619 --> 00:54:43.280
of backbiting. It's all of that with any club

00:54:43.280 --> 00:54:45.820
and any group of people. But when it comes right

00:54:45.820 --> 00:54:48.320
down to it, we are who we are. We are all we

00:54:48.320 --> 00:54:50.940
have. We don't rely on the outside, really, for

00:54:50.940 --> 00:54:55.900
a whole lot. And we never have. And in this particular

00:54:55.900 --> 00:54:59.489
club, we've let everybody in you know anybody

00:54:59.489 --> 00:55:01.369
who had anything to do with the business whether

00:55:01.369 --> 00:55:05.090
you were just a ride guy or you know a ticket

00:55:05.090 --> 00:55:08.630
ticket everybody was welcome at this club and

00:55:08.630 --> 00:55:12.449
if you wanted to persevere and volunteer and

00:55:12.449 --> 00:55:15.610
volunteer even feel like you're not wanted believe

00:55:15.610 --> 00:55:17.769
me because i've been to it eventually someone

00:55:17.769 --> 00:55:19.469
will say you know you're not he's not so bad

00:55:19.469 --> 00:55:21.449
guy what you call that guy see if he wants to

00:55:21.449 --> 00:55:23.610
come and that's how it starts and that's why

00:55:23.610 --> 00:55:29.500
i love It's because the club is let in. I mean,

00:55:29.500 --> 00:55:31.900
you have open arms, even with other organizations

00:55:31.900 --> 00:55:35.480
like the OBA has so many things going on during

00:55:35.480 --> 00:55:38.320
the trade show week and, you know, Nika, they

00:55:38.320 --> 00:55:41.340
kind of got their own. Well, they've all they've

00:55:41.340 --> 00:55:43.840
all piggybacked off our club. Right. And that's

00:55:43.840 --> 00:55:45.760
that's the, you know, because, you know, even

00:55:45.760 --> 00:55:48.960
on an editorial basis, like, you know, one of

00:55:48.960 --> 00:55:51.059
my reporters kept writing Florida Week, Florida

00:55:51.059 --> 00:55:53.519
Week. I said, what does that mean? Yes. Oh, you

00:55:53.519 --> 00:55:55.920
know, it's all because they're trying to It's

00:55:55.920 --> 00:55:58.340
the club and the trade show and then everything

00:55:58.340 --> 00:56:03.800
else is an add -on, is an ancillary to it. The

00:56:03.800 --> 00:56:05.480
reason people are there is for the trade show.

00:56:05.480 --> 00:56:07.340
They're not there for all that other stuff. I

00:56:07.340 --> 00:56:08.940
mean, it's nice that it's there and it's great

00:56:08.940 --> 00:56:11.360
that everybody works together, but it's the trade

00:56:11.360 --> 00:56:13.300
show that draws the people and it's the trade

00:56:13.300 --> 00:56:16.840
show that's the lifeblood. Not to be politically

00:56:16.840 --> 00:56:21.460
incorrect or condescending, but several groups

00:56:21.460 --> 00:56:24.449
were adamant about not following our dates. Yeah.

00:56:24.929 --> 00:56:28.010
And a bit too many ass. So the proof is in the

00:56:28.010 --> 00:56:30.150
pudding. The proof is in the pudding. We are

00:56:30.150 --> 00:56:32.469
who we are. People come here. It's the camaraderie

00:56:32.469 --> 00:56:35.909
here. The other things are business or maybe

00:56:35.909 --> 00:56:38.969
even political. But the club was never about

00:56:38.969 --> 00:56:41.909
that. It was always about just coming down, having

00:56:41.909 --> 00:56:44.329
a good time. And if you made a deal, you made

00:56:44.329 --> 00:56:46.809
a deal. If you can hear over the bands and make

00:56:46.809 --> 00:56:49.050
a deal, then you made a deal. If there's a reason

00:56:49.050 --> 00:56:51.630
some of those organizations have their big annual

00:56:51.630 --> 00:56:54.329
meetings, During the trade show because people

00:56:54.329 --> 00:56:56.210
are there because otherwise if they had an annual

00:56:56.210 --> 00:56:57.949
meeting they get four people, you know that you

00:56:57.949 --> 00:57:01.670
know And we've tried more than once to have incorporate

00:57:01.670 --> 00:57:07.670
those other groups Without picking out one I

00:57:07.670 --> 00:57:10.289
was instrumental. I rebuilt that whole back building

00:57:10.289 --> 00:57:13.070
in the back that we announced the carousel at

00:57:13.070 --> 00:57:16.630
the time I had you well the chandeliers is that

00:57:16.630 --> 00:57:19.590
big flowered centerpieces of big palm trees and

00:57:19.590 --> 00:57:26.679
it was a very very a beachy Florida room, it

00:57:26.679 --> 00:57:29.519
was. They can have their meetings there and have

00:57:29.519 --> 00:57:32.619
more room there and have, but they don't, you

00:57:32.619 --> 00:57:35.679
know, they do a few smaller meetings here and

00:57:35.679 --> 00:57:39.400
there, but by and large, you know, NICA has their

00:57:39.400 --> 00:57:42.260
big thing at there, and OABA has their big thing

00:57:42.260 --> 00:57:45.659
down there, and NASA has their big thing down

00:57:45.659 --> 00:57:48.039
there, when they could be using our facility,

00:57:48.280 --> 00:57:51.510
not a hotel. but there's a hotel right around

00:57:51.510 --> 00:57:54.849
the corner, right behind the Walmart that they

00:57:54.849 --> 00:58:00.909
could be using. Shelby Royal, God bless her,

00:58:00.949 --> 00:58:02.690
one time we had a meeting years and years and

00:58:02.690 --> 00:58:06.469
years ago. We had to get these rooms before OABA

00:58:06.469 --> 00:58:08.150
does because they were really encroaching on

00:58:08.150 --> 00:58:10.909
it. There was a lot of animosity a lot back in

00:58:10.909 --> 00:58:14.050
the day with different people, different leaderships.

00:58:14.250 --> 00:58:18.230
And she called to book the whole whatever the

00:58:18.230 --> 00:58:20.769
name of that motel is up there, whatever it is.

00:58:20.949 --> 00:58:23.769
Sable Park? Yeah, Sable Park. They said, I'm

00:58:23.769 --> 00:58:25.250
sorry, you were a day late. They just booked

00:58:25.250 --> 00:58:28.769
out 80 rooms or whatever it was. So I have to

00:58:28.769 --> 00:58:30.690
give her credit. She jumped right up and she

00:58:30.690 --> 00:58:33.210
went right to the phones trying to do it just

00:58:33.210 --> 00:58:35.789
so we can sell back the rooms to them, you know?

00:58:36.789 --> 00:58:40.969
It never happened. It never happened. So I look

00:58:40.969 --> 00:58:43.909
forward to the day where we can really be more

00:58:43.909 --> 00:58:47.489
cohesive, you know, even IAPA. You know, it's

00:58:47.489 --> 00:58:50.750
funny, everybody knocked IAPA, IAPA, they're

00:58:50.750 --> 00:58:52.889
hurting our trade show. Well, you know, there's

00:58:52.889 --> 00:58:54.650
certain show owners that was that was screaming

00:58:54.650 --> 00:58:56.469
that on one side of the face and going to buy

00:58:56.469 --> 00:59:00.170
their rights over at IAPA. And it's mostly economics

00:59:00.170 --> 00:59:01.949
because you have a ride to live in to March or

00:59:01.949 --> 00:59:04.170
April or May instead of wait till the end of

00:59:04.170 --> 00:59:06.869
the season to get it. So it just makes good business

00:59:06.869 --> 00:59:10.309
sense. But all of that could be cohesive as well.

00:59:10.349 --> 00:59:14.010
We all go there. All of us go there. Teresa goes

00:59:14.010 --> 00:59:16.989
down, representing the trade show, and she gets

00:59:16.989 --> 00:59:20.170
five or six people, this year she had about 10

00:59:20.170 --> 00:59:21.449
new vendors come to the trade show. I've gotten

00:59:21.449 --> 00:59:23.429
a few before. I talk to them. When I run across

00:59:23.429 --> 00:59:25.190
one, I say, you could do great over and give

00:59:25.190 --> 00:59:27.769
10 at the Carnival trade show. Yeah, you guys

00:59:27.769 --> 00:59:29.369
are there. Yeah, you do the same thing. You're

00:59:29.369 --> 00:59:31.730
pumping up too, which is wonderful. Always, yeah.

00:59:33.510 --> 00:59:37.730
Well, I hope this is serving your purpose. I

00:59:37.730 --> 00:59:42.539
hope I was not a deadbeat. What a boring interview,

00:59:42.780 --> 00:59:46.760
gosh, I fell asleep. Now it's fascinating. I'm

00:59:46.760 --> 00:59:49.340
so thankful for all the stuff you do and have

00:59:49.340 --> 00:59:52.559
done and will continue to do for the industry

00:59:52.559 --> 00:59:54.780
and the trade show. And I think you can make

00:59:54.780 --> 00:59:56.739
that museum a great place because it's a great,

00:59:57.579 --> 00:59:59.159
and all that you've done for the club over the

00:59:59.159 --> 01:00:01.719
years, it's an amazing thing. And what a storied

01:00:01.719 --> 01:00:05.760
history you had. Half, I shouldn't say had, you

01:00:05.760 --> 01:00:07.760
know, done. Do something new every other day.

01:00:08.860 --> 01:00:11.239
I hope so, and I hope, like I said, I can bring

01:00:11.239 --> 01:00:16.460
this whole venture into a whole new dimension,

01:00:16.500 --> 01:00:19.139
you know what I mean? I think a few live acts

01:00:19.139 --> 01:00:20.880
or doing something would really add to it a little

01:00:20.880 --> 01:00:23.719
bit, maybe on certain weekends, just small things,

01:00:23.719 --> 01:00:26.320
you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just chipping, chipping.

01:00:26.320 --> 01:00:28.260
Going swallower, having somebody in there, doing

01:00:28.260 --> 01:00:30.559
something live would be cool. Well, when you

01:00:30.559 --> 01:00:33.360
come down, lunch is on me. Well, I appreciate

01:00:33.360 --> 01:00:38.670
it. I have an expense account. Thanks so much

01:00:38.670 --> 01:00:41.389
for coming on. I really appreciate it. Best of

01:00:41.389 --> 01:00:43.349
luck to you. And if we can help or do anything

01:00:43.349 --> 01:00:45.989
for you, please reach out. We're always ready,

01:00:46.170 --> 01:00:49.090
willing, and able. I think I'll need some website

01:00:49.090 --> 01:00:51.869
help. With some website help. OK, I'll call Matt.

01:00:52.610 --> 01:00:55.550
So anyway, Ron, it was a pleasure. I'm thrilled

01:00:55.550 --> 01:00:58.409
that you asked me. I hope I was a pleasant substitute.

01:00:58.610 --> 01:01:00.750
I truly do. Absolutely. And heal up that arm

01:01:00.750 --> 01:01:04.230
fast. I will. I will. Thanks for all the exposure

01:01:04.230 --> 01:01:06.449
you've given us today here at the museum. Anytime.

01:01:06.610 --> 01:01:09.190
It's our pleasure. Thanks for all you do. Be

01:01:09.190 --> 01:01:12.670
safe. Goodbye. This podcast is brought to you

01:01:12.670 --> 01:01:15.650
by Innovative Ticketing is the ticketing source

01:01:15.650 --> 01:01:18.630
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01:01:18.630 --> 01:01:21.070
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01:01:21.789 --> 01:01:24.269
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01:01:24.269 --> 01:01:26.969
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01:01:26.969 --> 01:01:30.090
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