Welcome to Law Syrup, the show where we talk
with special guests about hot topics in Canadian
law. This podcast is a co -production with the
Ontario Justice Education Network, also known
as OGEN. I'm your host, Herman Wong. Let's tap
it. Before we begin, please note that this show
is not intended to be legal advice or be a replacement
for a legal representative. Hey, everybody, and
welcome to the show. We've been away for a little
while. But before we launch into our second season
this year, which we are very excited about, I
thought it'd be a great opportunity to offer
listeners an inside look at the Ontario Justice
Education Network and what they do. They have
been amazing co -producers of this show. And
in the last few months, they've also released
accompanying resources for all of our season
one episodes. And they are all available on OGEN
.ca. I definitely encourage you all to check
them out, whether you're a teacher looking to
find new classroom resources, or just someone
who is curious about learning more about the
topics that we've covered here. But back to the
matter at hand, which is OGEN in general. For
this episode, I had a great discussion with Ashley
Harry -Persaud, who is a program director at
OGEN. So if you were ever curious about what
OGEN does, then this episode is for you. Without
further ado, here's what we talked about. All
right. So Ashley, thank you so much for being
here today. How are you? I'm doing very well.
How are you? How's Daylight Savings treating
you? I was just talking to John Palm, who helps
with this podcast. I was saying I took a walk
for the first time yesterday, like during sunset,
and it was amazing because it was nice. It was
warm. I didn't have to wear my boots and everything.
And it was just like, wow, like I really missed
sunlight, if that makes any sense. But how's
it been for you? It's been an adjustment. I feel
like the day that we lose that hour always whizzes
past. But I did notice that it was much brighter,
longer yesterday. So that was nice. And it does
feel like spring is on its way. I know. You finally
see all the snow and ice melting, which is fantastic.
And usually in February, it's one of those moments
where it's like... white snow turning black and
it's all slushy and it's not that appealing but
now it's like pretty yes but now it's like oh
my gosh you can finally see like the grass underneath
you know plants are starting to grow it's great
i love it but then there's allergy season which
is not the greatest but but today we're here
to talk about ogen and thank you so much for
taking your time to talk about it because ogen
is the co -producer of this podcast and i've
always found it interesting that we've never
had an ogen centric episode so I think it would
be a very good opportunity to talk to you today
about what you do for OGEN and also what OGEN
does in general. So my first question for you
is actually this, what exactly is OGEN and what
does it stand for and what does OGEN do on a
day -to -day basis? Okay, so OGEN or the Ontario
Justice Education Network is a non -profit organization
that works across Ontario to help young people
better understand the legal system. So we create
educational tools and programs to teach youth
about the law and prepare them to handle legal
issues, you know, in their own lives. OGEN partners
with a wide range of volunteers like judges,
lawyers, police officers, and law students who
bring their real world experience to the table.
and the goal isn't just to give young people
legal knowledge but to create a space for open
discussions where both lead youth and legal professionals
can learn from each other and we reach thousands
of youth each year to ensure more youth are equipped
with the skills and confidence they need to help
navigate legal situations right that's amazing
and you know when i first learned about oja nashley
was on a linkedin post it was uh one of my friends
um she was a justice education fellow And she
had a posting about next year's Justice Education
Fellows. So that's kind of how I fell into learning
about OGEN. And when I found out about what they
did, I thought it was incredible work. And I
really love the element of reaching out to youth
in terms of justice education. And I thought
the initiatives were really great. But I know
that you've got a very interesting story about
first coming into contact with OGEN as well.
So when did you first learn about OGEN and get
involved with the organization? So I was in the
Law and Action within Schools program at Central
Tech, and I remember the first mock trial we
did in grade 10. It was an OGEN mock trial, and
I believe it was a criminal one. And I also remember
OGEN being around for a few other things. I remember
a conference that the Canadian Civil Liberties
Education Trust put on, and there was a session
run by OGEN with OGEN materials. I remember we
had speakers come in. I believe this was coordinated
from OGEN. We were introduced to different types
of lawyers. And honestly, before Laws and OGEN,
what I knew about lawyers and the legal profession
was truthfully what I had seen on TV. I had no
idea that lawyers did things outside of courthouses,
you know, at that age. So OGEN really helped
open up my world and helped me delve into the
legal professional more personally. You mentioned
the mock trial program. Can you talk more about
your experience with that? And what was that
like to participate as a student? So the mock
trial, honestly, was a highlight of my high school
career, for sure. I remember at the time, I thought,
you know, you're so young. What was I, 15 or
16? It felt so real and high stakes. I remember
my team working diligently. You know, we prepared
for the case, the opening statement, the direct,
the cross questions, preparing for what the other
side might say, thinking up potential objections,
fun things like that, along with the hard work.
And then we show up at Old City Hall. They robe
us. they tell us obviously tells before that
there was going to be a real judge presiding
over the case and oh my were we nervous but we
were also such a competitive group so we did
our best we won some parts not so much others
and we got to meet some great justice sector
volunteers along the way i believe we had lawyer
coaches and they were with us from the start
to the finish and obviously with the judges feedback
it was a blast Well, that's amazing. I didn't
even know that you went to Old City Hall to do
this. You know, I think that's a really good
experience to go downtown and see what the courts
is like. And what would you say to students who
also might be considering participating in one
of the OGEN mock trials for the first time? So
I think experiential components are so impactful
when it comes to learning about the legal system.
I would say, hey, this is an opportunity for
you to get into a role, build on skills that
you are already building, such as public speaking,
even critical thinking. I think it's a great
opportunity, even if you're not interested in
pursuing a career necessarily in law, because
it lets you truly build skills that are transferable.
Yeah, I definitely agree. And, you know, speaking
of the mock trial, did you always know from that
point that you wanted to be involved with the
legal profession? Or do you know of anyone else
that you were a student with who was inspired
by that to pursue a career in the legal profession?
Yeah, a few of us went on to do different things.
One of my old peers is now a Toronto police officer.
Another few of my friends are, you know, have
their paralegal diplomas. A bunch of us went
to law school. But truthfully, the mock trial
was a pivotal moment for us at that age. It was
one of probably the first true introductions
we had to the legal process. And it was both
exciting and eye opening, you know, preparing
our arguments, anticipating objections. the experience
overall is incredibly authentic and I think at
that time it just it became clear to me that
being a lawyer or a representative of a role
in the law is much more than just about arguing
right it was about strategy collaboration effective
communication right and so that experience deepened
my understanding of the legal profession's impact
and it further fueled my interest for pursuing
a career in law Yeah, I think for all of us,
there's like that one aha moment. For me, it
was also going to the courthouse downtown, not
Old City Hall, but the one on University Avenue.
And we sat in on a criminal trial and talked
to a judge. And I think it was one of those opportunities
where we got to go. in person outside of the
classroom and see law in action versus just law
in the classroom. And I think opportunities like
that were really good. And OGEN does offer many
of these experiences as well, which is why I
think that something like the mock trial is such
a great opportunity for students in high school
to kind of try out their advocacy skills and
learn more about what an in -person live courtroom
session might be like. So after high school,
what did you do and what led you back to working
at OGEN? So really what led me back to OGEN,
I was finishing up my undergrad degree. I was
in fourth year, you know, thinking to the steps
ahead of what I was going to get up to. And I
did want to apply to law school, but I also wanted
to get more of a taste of what working in the
legal field was like. Obviously, I didn't have
a legal degree, so I wanted to learn more about
working in the profession overall. And I remember
reaching out to laws at that time and I said,
hey, keep me in mind if you know of any postings.
And I was sent one for a part time project officer.
And I remember just being so eager to apply.
I remember thinking, wow, this would be perfect.
And I ended up applying and I ended up staying
and working for three years before I went off
to law school. And that's great. And now you're
a program developer at OGEN, and you work to
support the educator support and outreach departments.
I was wondering if you can tell us a little bit
more about your day -to -day work that you do.
So in my role, I'm involved in a variety of educator
support and outreach initiatives. For my educator
support role, I run the Poster Challenge, which
is a great opportunity for our younger students
to engage creatively with legal topics and to
help express their ideas through artwork. I support
the essay contest which encourages students to
dive deeper into legal issues and explore them
through writing. And I also help with the bursary
program which provides financial assistance to
students pursuing legal studies, helping them
to take the next step in their education. so
on the outreach side i'm involved in several
programs as well i support the yes we can program
which focuses on career modeling and working
with racialized youth to show them that they
too belong here if they have an interest in law
i also work with family law for young parents
program helping young parents understand their
legal rights and responsibilities and family
matters. And I also help out with public legal
education and information programming, which
is all about making legal info easy to understand
and accessible to. our audiences. And the goal
here is really to make sure people have the knowledge
they need to handle legal issues in their everyday
lives. And I would say that these roles let me
play a part in OGEN's mission to help young people
build their legal knowledge and skills, legal
capability, while also supporting educators and
communities really across Ontario. That's amazing.
And you mentioned a couple of different projects
and different departments. What is it like working
on all these things at once within OGEN? Working
on different projects and in various departments
is really exciting. It can be a lot in one day,
but I quite enjoy it. It keeps things fresh and
it gives me the chance to learn about different
aspects of OGEN's work. One day I might be focused
on something creative like the poster challenge,
and the next day I'm supporting outreach programs
that help young people understand family law
or their legal rights. it really is a great mix
because it allows me to collaborate with different
teams each with their own expertise and really
allows me to see how it all comes together and
how has it been like for you to work with the
other people on the ogen team unbelievably awesome
it really helps with some of the hours, the long
hours of the day. And I would actually like to
highlight two individuals in the outreach department
that I have the pleasure of working with. So
there's Cassandra Thomas and Anasone Kadiri,
and they're both so vital. to the OGEN team.
Cassandra is a program manager and she helps
develop and deliver OGEN's educational programs,
working with schools and community partners to
make sure they're impactful. And truthfully,
Cassandra's passion for justice education really
shows in how she connects with the youth and
brings the legal system to life for them. And
then there's Enesoni, the director of outreach,
who does everything. um but to give you a couple
of examples she focuses on outreach and volunteer
coordination she ensures that ogen's network
of legal professionals stay strong she does a
really really good job of matching volunteers
to the right programs and honestly she keeps
everything running smoothly behind the scenes
but working with them has been so meaningful
because they're clearly so passionate about the
work that they do so from start to beginning
that shines through in all of the work that they
do. It's great to learn more about the people
at OGEN because I think you all come from different
backgrounds in terms of education and where you
were in your legal career. And it's really nice
to see everybody come together to further initiatives
that have to do with justice education, with
reaching out to young people, people who might
not know a lot about the law. And it's really
great to hear from you about all these different
initiatives and programs that OGEN is a part
of. In your opinion, why should students, teachers,
or the general public be interested in knowing
more about what OGEN does? That's a great question.
People should be interested in OGEN because it
offers a unique opportunity to better understand
the legal system and how it affects our everyday
lives. For students, it's a chance to learn about
their rights and responsibilities and develop
skills, like I mentioned, critical thinking,
communication, and problem solving that are valuable
in any career. For teachers, OGEN provides resources
to bring law into the classroom. in a practical
and engaging way. And I'd say for the general
public, OGEN helps build stronger communities
by fostering a deeper understanding of the legal
system and encouraging meaningful discussions
about justice. So OGEN doesn't just teach the
law, it helps people connect with it on a personal
level, making it what I believe is more relevant
and accessible. Yeah, you know, when I talk to
teachers sometimes about the OGEN resources,
I think they're all very, very happy with them.
And they really enjoy using them to create classroom
activities, generate discussion amongst students.
I think the resources that OGEN has, especially
on the website, and I encourage anyone who's
curious about the OGEN resources to go to OGEN's
website because it's all there. But I think the
team at OGEN really has put a lot of time and
effort into these resources. And I think that...
teachers are responding well to them. And I encourage
any other teacher who might not be using the
OGEN resources to look more into them. I think
OGEN does an incredible job at making sure that
people feel like they have access to resources
that are free and that they can use to further
learning in their own classrooms. So Ashley,
what's next for OGEN? Is there anything that
you're currently looking forward to? Looking
ahead, I'm really excited about the possibility
of doing more work with newcomers. So, you know,
there's a huge opportunity to help them understand
the legal system and their rights as they settle
into their new community. And while we're still
working out the details, I'm really excited about
more programming for newcomer youth. So I would
say stay tuned, more to come on that. Well, that's
very interesting. You know, I mentioned some
of the resources that OGEN provides before, but
what are some other ways that people can get
involved with OGEN? Getting involved with OGEN
is simple and impactful. people can contribute
in a few different ways, I think. For those looking
to volunteer, OGEN welcomes volunteers from all
areas of the justice sector, judges, lawyers,
law students, even those in the community who
want to share their experiences and expertise
with youth. I believe it's a great way to give
back while also helping to shape the next generation's
understanding of the legal system. And of course,
if you're interested in donating, OGEN is a non
-profit organization so donations are always
appreciated and help support our educational
programs across ontario and so to learn more
about how you can get involved people can visit
our website as you mentioned and i believe it's
got all the information you need to get started
Yeah, I think there's a very good page there
about how to get involved. And again, it's not
just students and teachers who can get involved.
It's anyone in the legal profession, as Ashley
mentioned, judges, lawyers, paralegals, anyone
who might be interested in helping out. I think
OGEN would very much appreciate their support,
especially in terms of their justice education
initiatives. But apart from that, those are all
my questions, Ashley. I want to thank you so
much for taking the time out of your day to speak
to me about OGEN. And I think we really needed
an OGEN episode. And I'm really happy that you
were able to share your answers with us. So thank
you so much once again for joining us. Thank
you. It's been so nice to talk about what we
do here. Thank you. Thank you for tapping into
this episode of Law Syrup. Law Syrup is produced
by me, Herman Wong, and the Ontario Justice Education
Network. For more information and for accompanying
resources, check out ojen .ca and our show notes.
See you next time.