1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,800 Welcome to Better Together, a Vaishnava family podcast. 2 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:10,000 A podcast where we talk about family life from a Bhakti Yohur perspective. 3 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:11,000 We are your hosts. 4 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:12,500 I'm Aksh. 5 00:00:12,500 --> 00:00:13,500 And I'm Gopika. 6 00:00:13,500 --> 00:00:16,420 Welcome to Episode 3. 7 00:00:16,420 --> 00:00:24,300 Last episode, we spoke briefly about the difficulty around the choice of being a stay-at-home mom, 8 00:00:24,300 --> 00:00:29,420 and how domestic labor is often undervalued, and the Shastvik perspective around this whole 9 00:00:29,420 --> 00:00:30,420 thing. 10 00:00:30,420 --> 00:00:37,200 Ironically, but I always feel like Krishna is in our hearts and just kind of orchestrates 11 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:38,480 things perfectly. 12 00:00:38,480 --> 00:00:46,800 But right after we recorded that podcast, Harrison Butker, Kansas City Chief's NFL player, gave 13 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:51,080 a commencement speech at a Catholic university. 14 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:56,920 And he told the graduating women in the audience that the thing that they would be most excited 15 00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:02,360 about and that would bring most value to their life would be becoming mothers and wives. 16 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:09,160 Naturally, this sparked outrage on social media and people are still talking about it. 17 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:10,600 Have you seen some of it? 18 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:11,600 I have. 19 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:14,640 I would say that there's outrage, but there's also a lot of support. 20 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:16,400 Yeah, I was just going to say. 21 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:17,400 Yeah, exactly. 22 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:20,000 There's like two camps on social media. 23 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:27,080 So there's one camp of women who completely condemn Bucker for kind of diminishing women 24 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:32,280 as if they were only born in this world, and their sole purpose in this world would be 25 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:35,760 to be good wives and mothers. 26 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:42,000 And there's another camp of women who are really supporting Bucker, saying that, hey, 27 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:48,240 I'm educated, I have X number of degrees, and being a stay-at-home mom or being a mother 28 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:51,080 has been the biggest accomplishment of my life. 29 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:57,760 So there's this cyber battle going on, but we haven't actually gotten a chance to talk 30 00:01:57,760 --> 00:01:59,360 about it. 31 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:07,160 And I'm curious to know as a man and as a husband and as a father, what were your thoughts 32 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:09,760 and reactions to Bucker's speech? 33 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:17,680 Well, if I'm honest, I think a bit mixed in the sense that it sort of feels very cookie-cutter 34 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:22,840 that everyone, or I think he may even use the word most, most of you or something like 35 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:30,600 that, will feel fulfilled in this type of role that is homemaker. 36 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:33,120 I mean, I feel like it's boxing people in. 37 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:34,520 I know that. 38 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:40,720 For me, why I feel conflicted a little bit or mixed is that, and this is just me as someone 39 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:49,720 who's a man and not really in the best place to even say this, but I'm curious, is there 40 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:53,240 some level of truth to what he says? 41 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:55,080 Yeah, yeah, no, totally. 42 00:02:55,080 --> 00:03:01,800 I mean, this might be controversial, but I do agree with you in the sense that even for 43 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:05,840 me, I'm educated, I value my career. 44 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:10,280 There is a part of me that wants to go back to work, and I will be going back to work in 45 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:17,160 some capacity, but being a mother and raising my kids and spending this time with them has 46 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:20,080 been the most difficult thing that I have done. 47 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:26,160 And I think as I live my life, it will be the most important thing that I've done. 48 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:31,440 I really feel that at the end of my life, raising my kids is going to be my single most 49 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:33,640 important accomplishment. 50 00:03:33,640 --> 00:03:39,280 At the same time, I think here's the problem with this speech. 51 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:44,120 One, the problem is like you were saying the extremes, right? 52 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:50,800 The assumption that all the women in the audience, their sole purpose in life, the only thing 53 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:57,440 that they will look forward to is being a mother and being a homemaker and a wife, because 54 00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:06,440 that really diminishes women to this very 1D perspective on who they are as humans. 55 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:09,840 Whereas like we talked about in our last episode, right? 56 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:14,280 Who women are and what our natures are are so multidimensional. 57 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:18,880 So yes, there might be a Dharma as a woman to be a mother, to be a wife. 58 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:23,040 There might be a part of us that needs to be fulfilled in that way. 59 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:29,920 However, we also have other Dharmas and we all might have different natures. 60 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:34,680 And the combination of how that's going to show up in every single woman is going to 61 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:35,680 be different. 62 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:39,200 Yeah, I mean, it's interesting you say Dharma. 63 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:46,760 So he used the term vocation and he said, you know, my wife leaned into her vocation 64 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:50,320 and then he talked about himself as leaning into his vocation. 65 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:51,320 Yeah. 66 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:58,280 You know, as if the vocation was like this one prescribed, you know, duty from God that 67 00:04:58,280 --> 00:05:02,400 this is exactly what I'm supposed to do. 68 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:07,480 And I guess knowing that it was coming from a Christian and Catholic background, I can't 69 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:11,360 comment on exactly what that prescribed duty is. 70 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:16,640 But certainly from a bhakti perspective, it is complex and there's multiple dimensions 71 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:19,840 of duty and duty is a dynamic principle. 72 00:05:19,840 --> 00:05:22,360 It's not something that's meant to be static. 73 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:23,360 Yeah, exactly. 74 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:31,360 And it could change with time, you know, with circumstances and also practical situations, 75 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:32,360 right? 76 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:37,400 Yeah, like needing to work for financial reasons, etc. 77 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:43,320 Here's the saddest part of this whole thing, though, for me is when I saw these two camps 78 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:48,520 of women on social media pitted against each other. 79 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:57,000 That was the tragedy for me because I feel like one, the the issue ends up being like 80 00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:58,240 two extremes. 81 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:01,160 One extreme be a stay at home mom, give up your job. 82 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:03,920 The other extreme, you're a working mom, right? 83 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:09,080 And we talked about last time how that's that's not really the only way to look at it. 84 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:15,360 But then what happens is that each camp ends up judging each other for their respective 85 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:16,360 choices. 86 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:21,360 So because of someone like Bucker who made this comment, if you do make the choice to 87 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:29,240 be a stay at home mom, it's almost like you are succumbing to patriarchy. 88 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:34,040 Like you're you're succumbing to a man telling you what to do if you choose to be a stay 89 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:40,480 at home mom, which can feel like betraying womanhood and independence, right? 90 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:45,640 And on the other hand, if you go back to work, then you might also be judged for going back 91 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:54,480 to work and not doing your role and fulfilling your Dharma as a family woman mother, being 92 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:57,200 with your kids when they need you, etc. 93 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:05,560 etc. etc. For me, the big picture here is one, every woman is unique and should be treated 94 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:11,000 that way and should be honored that way and should be given the freedom to make the choices 95 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:13,600 that make sense for her and her family. 96 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:21,880 If you as a woman are fulfilled as a homemaker at a stay at home mom, it lights up your life. 97 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:22,880 Wonderful. 98 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:23,880 Great. 99 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:31,120 You know, if you as a woman love being a mother and you have other parts of you that also 100 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:33,560 light up your life, wonderful. 101 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:34,560 Awesome. 102 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:40,560 So, rather than judge each other for each other's choices and assume that there is one way to 103 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:48,120 do it, embracing the complexity of humanity and womanhood and motherhood. 104 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:51,280 And we see that in Shastra like we talked about last time, all these examples, Thrope 105 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:58,160 of the the gopis, the wives of the Brahminas, the fruit seller, all of them were women, 106 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:00,720 all of them were mothers in different ways. 107 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:05,800 So why can't we just accept that about each other rather than judge each other for each 108 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:07,760 other's respective choices? 109 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:08,760 Yeah. 110 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:14,880 Well, I think sometimes the judgment may come from actually a place of concern. 111 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:16,920 And I'm wondering what your thoughts are on this. 112 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:24,760 What I've seen is this concern that if the mom or I guess the dad as well or any parent 113 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:30,320 figure that is not in a child's life regularly that that will impact the child. 114 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:31,320 Yeah. 115 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:34,200 Particularly from a, I guess, spiritual or moral place. 116 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:39,240 I don't know if I'm saying it right, but the sort of concern and you can see how even 117 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:44,360 people that are in these circles often prefer sort of like a homeschooling route and the 118 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:48,400 idea of your child being part of your world rather than them being out there. 119 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:51,200 So do you think that concern comes from there? 120 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:58,200 Like that this is God's desire for women to be homemakers because that's the way it 121 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:01,200 ought to be for the sake of the family. 122 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:07,800 And if someone has to choose or wants to choose to go to work and may have to let go of some 123 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:11,640 of that responsibility, like how to navigate that. 124 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:20,560 I don't feel like it's any of our place to assess what God's desire is for anyone else. 125 00:09:20,560 --> 00:09:26,840 It's just our place to assess what God's desire is for me. 126 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:29,800 Because that's a hard enough question as it is. 127 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:34,200 And we grappled and we are still grappling with this decision in our own family about 128 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:37,040 me being a stay at home mom versus me going back to work. 129 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:43,200 In the minute we start to impose judgment on other people, I feel like that leaves the 130 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:50,200 realm of walking a path of faith unless you are really truly in a position of guru or 131 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:52,000 mentorship, etc. 132 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:55,200 It's really not our place to be judging all of these other choices. 133 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:57,040 So yeah, maybe it comes out of concern. 134 00:09:57,040 --> 00:10:03,600 However, is it really our place to be judging other people's families when the decision 135 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:04,840 is so complicated? 136 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:07,720 There are so many immense factors. 137 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:14,160 The other thing is I feel like God cares about building a loving relationship with Him. 138 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:16,520 In Bhakti, that's the end goal, right? 139 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:18,680 To have a loving relationship with Krishna. 140 00:10:18,680 --> 00:10:22,920 So to say that for a woman to have a loving relationship with Krishna, the way that she 141 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:28,280 needs to do that is to have children and be a good wife and mother. 142 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:29,280 And that's the only way. 143 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:36,000 I feel like that goes against the diversity in the Bhakti tradition. 144 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:42,280 In Bhagavatam there are so many types of people, animals even, who have loving relationships 145 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:43,440 with Krishna. 146 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:49,960 So then why are we trying to make all of us have the same type of role and the same type 147 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:55,120 of position when we have a relationship with Krishna? 148 00:10:55,120 --> 00:11:01,840 So okay, maybe there's concern, but for me, honestly, charity starts at home and there's 149 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:07,040 enough going on in my own world before I need to start caring about other people's worlds. 150 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:14,160 I really feel like the focus needs to be on supporting women to make this choice for themselves 151 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:19,120 in a way that, again, they can show up to be the happiest and healthiest for their families. 152 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:21,920 That is what's going to make a happy family. 153 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:25,000 Happy moms make happy families. 154 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:28,080 So what is going to be happiness for that mom? 155 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:32,320 That might be different depending on nature. 156 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:38,160 So when there are people like Bhakti are making these speeches, saying what he said, how do 157 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:41,440 we live in the world differently? 158 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:42,920 What are your thoughts? 159 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:50,440 Yeah, first and foremost, I feel like there needs to be support around women making these 160 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:51,440 choices. 161 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:55,960 So if we just stop telling women what to do, rather we have to give them the support so 162 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:59,520 they can make the choices that are right for them. 163 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:01,760 I mean, what do you think? 164 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:09,080 I think this really creates this polarization, which is actually quite like disturbing the 165 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:15,960 average person reading the news and watching YouTube and, you know, take talk and just 166 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:17,520 coming across this stuff. 167 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:23,800 It's so complicated to figure out like what do you believe? 168 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:28,360 Because also the arguments are like somewhat persuasive sometimes. 169 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:35,080 You know, I've actually, due to my interest in philosophy and stuff, I have a lot of these 170 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:41,400 Christian preachers also that come in through my YouTube feeds and my YouTube shorts and 171 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:42,400 all that stuff. 172 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:46,240 So I see things and I would say like many of them are quite intelligent. 173 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:47,400 Of course. 174 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:49,640 And articulate. 175 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:55,640 So as a person just absorbing all this, it can be easy to get really confused. 176 00:12:55,640 --> 00:13:02,120 And there's a tendency to want to pick a side because that seems like the easiest way to 177 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:04,160 just move on with life. 178 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:09,480 I think the way that we have to live in a world like this is we need to question what 179 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:14,680 we hear and we need to think deeply about what we want to do. 180 00:13:14,680 --> 00:13:18,880 And navigating the gray is hard, but it's worth it. 181 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:19,880 Yeah. 182 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:22,560 I hear that like with butger's speech. 183 00:13:22,560 --> 00:13:27,640 I know my first reaction was, oh my gosh, what is he saying? 184 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:28,640 Right. 185 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:34,480 At the same time, if you do pause, there is some validity. 186 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:36,200 I'm not saying complete validity. 187 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:38,480 I don't agree with him and what he's doing. 188 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:46,360 However, this idea of motherhood being an important, amazing contribution to society, 189 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:48,600 I agree with that. 190 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:51,000 So I think that's a great point, right? 191 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:54,960 That like when we see these things on social media, it's so easy to feel strongly about 192 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:55,960 one way or the other. 193 00:13:55,960 --> 00:14:00,480 And then we get caught up in these battles. 194 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:05,360 And rather than that, just like think about what's valid on each side of the argument 195 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:08,120 and where do I really stand? 196 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:11,960 For me, I've been really thinking about and I want to hear your ideas too. 197 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:19,600 Within our home, how do we, how do we change the culture within our home in concrete ways, 198 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:29,560 given that there is such a deep on one hand disregard for women in the sense that people 199 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:37,200 tell women what to do one to for home making that it's kind of unvalued and seen as quote 200 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:38,800 unquote nothing? 201 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:44,520 How do we change the culture in our home so that our son and daughter will grow up to 202 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:47,200 understand the nuances of these issues? 203 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:50,640 Yeah, it's really great question. 204 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:56,040 I mean, the first thing that just comes to my mind is the vocabulary that we use around 205 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:58,480 these things. 206 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:05,520 So for example, often when it's time for me to go to work, which usually means going 207 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:12,080 downstairs into the office, I will say like, okay, sure, I'm going to work in 10 minutes 208 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:14,040 or something like that. 209 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:19,280 And there's clearly this sense of I'm going to do something important, you know, Papa's 210 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:21,360 going to do something important. 211 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:24,040 And you are going to do something important. 212 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:28,560 And I am doing something important, but at the same time, you're also doing something 213 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:32,000 really, really important. 214 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:39,560 And no, I don't think that we apply the same label to that, or at least a label that has 215 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:41,960 similar value. 216 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:48,480 And so that that's a subtle thing that that kids do pick up, I feel. 217 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:50,200 Yeah, totally. 218 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:54,440 I mean, they are receiving so many subtle messages. 219 00:15:54,440 --> 00:16:02,880 And recently, because we have a daughter now, I've been noticing that our parents will see 220 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:07,520 her in the kitchen, and she's literally eight months old. 221 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:12,440 And if I'm just standing with her by the stove, they may say something like, wow, you're going 222 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:14,640 to help me in the kitchen one day? 223 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:16,480 I have no problem with this statement. 224 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:21,880 I believe that helping in the kitchen is an important life skill. 225 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:23,440 It's a service opportunity. 226 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:25,800 There's nothing wrong with that, right? 227 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:26,800 Yeah. 228 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:32,880 However, my issue lies in the fact that that has never been said to our son. 229 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:34,240 Yeah. 230 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:35,240 That's my issue. 231 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:36,240 Yeah. 232 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:39,240 You know, like, why? 233 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:42,520 And of course, nothing is intentional, right? 234 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:45,440 If you were to ask them, oh, do you believe that only women should be in the kitchen? 235 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:47,440 They'd be like, no, no, men can be in the kitchen. 236 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:49,440 I cook sometimes too, blah, blah, blah. 237 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:55,280 Again, the culture is so deep, and our kids from birth, literally babyhood, eight months 238 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:59,360 old, she's receiving these messages, and so is he, because he's watching this. 239 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:01,960 He's hearing this, right? 240 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:04,360 So really being mindful of that. 241 00:17:04,360 --> 00:17:13,120 And I'm also thinking about, like, having conversations with our kids about it, right? 242 00:17:13,120 --> 00:17:19,160 And maybe even opening up about how we were raised and our expectations and what we think 243 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:20,160 about it now. 244 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:24,920 Well, it's funny you bring that up because I have a story. 245 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:32,120 So I remember a few weeks or a month or two back, I was preparing dinner, and Kishore 246 00:17:32,120 --> 00:17:37,080 was playing in the living room, as he usually does. 247 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:43,560 He then came up to me in the middle of my dinner prep and asked a question. 248 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:48,960 And with a very concerned tone and a look on his face, he said something to the fact 249 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:53,920 of, Papa, what are you making? 250 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:58,840 Then I told him what I was making, or I may have been warming something up and making 251 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:00,560 something I don't remember. 252 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:04,680 And then he asks, Papa, what do you know how to make? 253 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:13,200 Of course, the context of this is that I am a pretty basic person in the kitchen. 254 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:19,440 Like I said, you are our primary cook and kitchen manager and an excellent cook, if I 255 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:20,960 may say. 256 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:25,720 But Kishore does pick up on the differences there. 257 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:31,040 And I think at some point, one of us may even said, Papa doesn't know how to cook or know 258 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:32,840 how to cook that much. 259 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:37,320 And he asked, well, why don't you know how to cook? 260 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:44,480 And later on, a few weeks later, I brought up the conversation with him and tried to 261 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:51,120 explain to him how, just how I grew up, that things were a certain way and that might have 262 00:18:51,120 --> 00:18:53,120 influenced me a little bit. 263 00:18:53,120 --> 00:18:55,480 But it doesn't have to be that way. 264 00:18:55,480 --> 00:19:00,960 I asked him how he would like to approach the kitchen and very enthusiastically, of 265 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:03,000 course, he has his play kitchen. 266 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:07,600 So he said, I already know how to cook and I know how to cook this and I know how to 267 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:08,600 cook that. 268 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:16,440 And so I was relieved that he saw himself also contributing to the household in that 269 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:17,440 way. 270 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:24,080 But let me ask you, what other things do you think we could be doing as a family? 271 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:32,080 I mean, for me personally, I think I also have to work on myself and look at the part 272 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:36,040 of me that undervalues domestic labor. 273 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:42,240 As a woman who is educated and really loved my career. 274 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:44,840 I need to reframe that within myself. 275 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:50,640 So instead of saying, I left my career, I took a career pause. 276 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:56,400 I'm choosing family right now, but that doesn't make me unworthy of respect. 277 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,040 And I'm still doing something very important. 278 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:02,600 And staying at home is not anti feminist. 279 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:10,520 Staying at home is not a way to diminish women's rights, which is how it can be seen, 280 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:15,360 especially when you have like a butger speech situation happening. 281 00:20:15,360 --> 00:20:21,000 So I think I need to embody confidence in my own choice. 282 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:25,600 And I have been catching myself sometimes because people ask me, like, what are you 283 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:29,920 doing these days, and I'll say something to the effects of like, oh, I'm just a mom 284 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:31,760 right now. 285 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:32,920 And just that phrase, right? 286 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:35,760 I'm just a mom. 287 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:45,720 You know, being a mother is an immense service to the world. 288 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:51,640 And so I think like continuing to say these things to myself is really important. 289 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:58,400 Well, I was going to say that for me, another point for us as a family, very closely connected 290 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:06,880 to this is cherishing motherhood and verbalizing depreciations. 291 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:13,160 And this is something that I know I can do better is often I sort of intuitively understand 292 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:16,240 the value of what you do. 293 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,440 But one, I don't always tell you enough. 294 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:25,520 But I certainly I don't verbalize it enough out loud in a way that our son can hear it 295 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:30,640 and start to understand what you're doing is also valuable. 296 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:32,360 It's important. 297 00:21:32,360 --> 00:21:38,280 And I think I would even say that perhaps that can also help you in your process of 298 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:44,560 reframing as well, because it's not really fair for you to just be there on your own 299 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:51,920 trying to see the sacrifice and reframing the sacrifice on your own, rather having some 300 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:59,000 support in that and also being able to feel encouraged in that sacrifice. 301 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:01,560 So I think that's something that we can do better. 302 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:02,560 And I can do better. 303 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:03,560 Yeah. 304 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:05,360 Well, I appreciate you saying that. 305 00:22:05,360 --> 00:22:08,360 I'll try. 306 00:22:08,360 --> 00:22:15,880 Well, I feel like those are good few ways that we can start with. 307 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:16,880 Yeah. 308 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:17,880 We never know how to end the episode. 309 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:20,480 I mean, we're still trying to figure that part out here. 310 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,720 So we'll just say this. 311 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:24,720 It's a work. 312 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:25,720 We're a work in progress. 313 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:28,080 We're still figuring all of this out. 314 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:30,240 Let's keep on getting better together. 315 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:33,600 We'll see everybody in episode four. 316 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:35,600 Thanks for joining us. 317 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:42,600 I wish that. 318 00:22:42,600 --> 00:23:08,340 Okay.