Hey, this is Jason Marsden. You might have seen
me on SpaceGuideToSpace .com. You're listening
to GeekCast Radio. Hey, it's Jesse Rass here,
and you've made the great escape into comics
by jumping inside the pull bag today. You'd better
be wrong, Jor -El. You'd better be dead wrong.
Hello, folks. It is I, TFG1 Mike, from the GeekCast
Radio Network. You are listening to The Pull
Bag. This is episode 573. Yes, I know we're late
with this, but Dave McIlvaney and I recorded
this sometime in 2024. I don't remember exactly
when. This is a new series for the Comic Book
Podcast here on the Geekcast Radio Network. It's
called, what is it called? C -I -C -C. Characterizations
in Comic Characters. And basically what this
is going to be is we look at one single character,
Batman, Superman, Spider -Man, Iron Man, etc.,
etc., etc. Per episode, we look at their history,
we look at their greatest moments in stories,
we look at some of their not -so -great moments
in stories, and we just have a fun discussion
on that character. And to debut it, Dave McElvenny
and I decided to go with the Boy Scout himself,
the American alien, the Kryptonian survivor,
Superman, a .k .a. Clark Kent, mildman reporter
at the Daily Planet. So... This is a test run,
folks. I don't know if we're going to continue
this. I wouldn't sit here and beg for feedback,
but if you like this, email us, feedback at geekcastradio
.com. Let us know if you want me to do more of
these episodes or not. Thank you for listening
all these years. The Pull Bag is about to celebrate
12 years online in March, so that is awesome.
and just have fun reading comic books, folks.
That's all there is to it. When you're reading
stories, just have fun with it. Make your greatest
game in the comics and jump inside the episode
right now with me, TFG and Mike, and Dave McElvenny.
It's going to be a super discussion all about
this characterization in a comic book character
for Superman. Da -da -da -da! Wait, I don't think
that's the right thing. Anyway, on with the show.
Martha? Martha? Shh, you'll wake him. Whoa, Martha,
what are you doing? Put that thing back. We don't
know where it came from. He's not a thing, Jonathan.
He's a baby. A little baby. Who would put a baby
in a spaceship? That's just my point. Could be
Russian. A Sputnik baby. Oh, really? Maybe he's
one of ours. You think NASA's missing a kid?
I don't care where he came from. All I know is
he needs us, Jonathan. Look how he's reaching
out to you. Cute little fella. Got a good grip,
too. Ow. Ow! Hello and welcome to The Pull Bag.
This is episode 573, and I have no idea when
this is going to come out, folks, because as
of this recording, we haven't even released episode
562 or 63. So we're 10 episodes ahead. Not really.
But I am, of course, TFG on mic. And returning
is the super Dave himself, Mr. David McElvenny.
Hello, sir. How are you? Good. How are you, Mike?
Pretty good. Pretty good. And just like when
we started The Origins, 30 questions all about
comic reading 11 years ago. Almost 11 years later,
I want to add something new to the podcast besides
the origins, the reviews of comics, and what
can we add? Well, how about character studies?
Now, comics and character studies and people
on the internet that do all kinds of film studies
and characters, they've all been done before,
so this is probably nothing new. It's just our
opinions on this stuff or kind of going through
the history and saying what stories we do remember,
don't remember, everything else. And with Dave
being... As knowledgeable as he is, notice I
didn't use the term ancient. I used knowledgeable.
There's probably not going to be any shortage
because that's the short end of the stick, folks,
is me. Because I know half of nothing or less
than nothing about Superman when it comes to
comics. Superman to me is Christopher Reeve.
It's the cartoons. It's the TV shows. Some TV
shows are better and worse than others. But basically,
this is launching the new thing here inside the
pull bag, the characterizations in comics characters,
so CICC. We will highlight one comic character
per podcast episode, go over their history in
brief, talk about how many writers and artists
have created for said character, and then go
through some of that character's best and worst
moments in comics. So that's the plan. Flying
by the seat of my pants on this one, folks. Because
outside of, is it Romita Sr. or Jr.? And he's
the artist, isn't he? He's not the writer. Yeah,
see, folks, I am just dumb when it comes to Superman,
unfortunately. When did you first pick up a Superman
book? So long ago. I don't know if I could narrow
it down specifically, but probably about four
or five years old. I really have very little
memory of not seeing comic books of any sort
before that. Maybe I did. You know, definitely
by the time I was ready to go to school or, you
know, in kindergarten, I know I was reading.
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And like I said, for
me, I don't remember a lot of it. Oh, and I should
clarify this, folks. When I say comics or characters
in comics, whatever, we are going to be specifically
talking about specific characters or specific
people that were those characters. So if I said
Superman, which I did, most people are going
to assume Clark Kent, not any other version.
But I do have in parentheses here for the title
of the podcast to clarify Clark Kent. Bruce Wayne,
Batman eventually, Tony Stark, Iron Man. There
have been other characters that have played the
title roles. I think outside of Wonder Woman.
I don't think anybody else has been. I don't
think they've. Yeah, that's not a thing. At least
I don't think it is. So, but yes, specifically
Clark Kent, Superman, Jerry. It's Joe Shuster
and Jerry Siegel, right? Or did I get the names
mixed up? You got them right. Okay, good. They
created the man back in 1938, and the origins
of this character, Last Son of Krypton. Oh, boy.
What is your defining characterizations? For
you, when you look at a Superman comic, what
does that comic have to have for you to really
be like, this is a Superman comic I want to continue
reading? Well, for me, just overall, as far as
Superman's character, link it to that. It's,
you know, he does what he knows is right. You
know, there's Elliot S. Magan famously wrote
in Miracle Monday that there's a right and a
wrong in this universe and the distinction is
not very hard to make. Yeah, that's. His north
star, if you will, for Superman, Superman sees
what's right and does whatever he can to make
sure things, you know, that he's doing the right
thing. Now, you can argue about what the right
thing is, but, I mean, if you go back to Superman's
origin in the late 30s, basically the champion
of the oppressed was, you know. During the Depression,
the world was preparing for war. Superman was
doing things like making sure that wrongly convicted
people did not go to the gas chamber or electric
chair. He would break up wars by forcing dictators
to fight each other physically rather than send
young men to die in a war. He would tear down
the slums and rebuild decent housing for people.
He was always looking out in those days for the
little guy who didn't really have any power,
which is probably top of mind for a couple of
Jewish kids in Cleveland in the late 1930s. I'm
sure they didn't have a lot going for them and
wanted a champion. Yeah. Yep. And I think that's
a, I think that's a through line for a lot of
Superman's character is he's always trying to
do right. I mean, I remember reading stories
over the years, especially you would see them
in the silver age of like, they used to call
them imaginary stories. Now they're elseworlds
kind of thing. Where they would imagine Superman
in some different reality. Where, you know, he
was found and raised by, you know, a criminal.
Or he, you know, his rocket landed in Africa
and he was raised by apes. He grew up in a place
like Tarzan. Or even later on in Superman Red
Son, Soviet Russia. Yeah. No matter what sort
of environment. you know, he's bound in, at some
point in the story, he becomes a recognizable
to us Superman, where he's not going to, you
know, fight to conquer or fight to oppress people,
take away their, you know, human rights. You
know, even if that's the way he's been brought
up in some different society, at some point in
the story, wait a minute, why would I be doing
this? I have all this power. I should be helping.
Yeah. To me, that's super helpful. Yeah, absolutely.
And the funny thing is I was looking through
the Geekast Radio Network, the pull bag history
here for hope. It is the best thing I can look
to say, but yeah, Superman and the pull bag have
not gotten along. Because when I started the
pull bag 11, 12, 11 and a half, 12 years ago,
I figured, okay, I like Batman. I like Superman,
but there's too much there. And at that time
in 2013, we were two years, two or three years
into New 52. And I didn't at the time, and I
can always go back and change my mind on this,
folks, but I wasn't really excited about New
52 Superman at the time. I don't know what it
was. It just wasn't my thing. But we do have,
there should be four, but I'll tell the story
why there isn't four in a minute. We have three
episodes of The Pullback dedicated to Superman
so far, and unfortunately we started off on the
Frank Miller foot of the DC Black label Superman
Year One, issues number one and two. So the story
behind that and why my buddy Joe and I never
finished with that third issue is because I saw
the solicitation for the first two issues of
that. I thought were cool. Oh, this is a different
Superman origin. Again, you can you can have
different writers to different origins, all that
fine thing, whatever, as long as the character
has similar, you know, whatever to each incarnation.
as far as his morals and personality go so we
got to the first two issues and i'm like okay
this is cool this is interesting this is fun
i read this list for the third issue super uh
dc black label superman year one number three
written by frank miller i forget who the artist
was off the top of my head but written by frank
miller issue number three we're gonna go to gotham
and we're gonna bring diana in so we have the
holy trinity and i just immediately said Sorry,
Joe, we're not finished in this. And I never
not even if a comic is bad and I don't like it,
I will usually finish it because they were bringing
like I felt that that story was Superman. You
can tell a three, especially those black label
books that they were doing. They were only three
issues. You can tell a full on Superman story
without having to bring in the other two of the
Trinity. You know, like. Oh, God. And I mentioned
to my buddy Joe the other day, I said, you know,
maybe we should really finish that stuff at this
point, because it's been years since we covered
that. And then earlier this year, we did episode
552. 52, folks. Get it? DC, yada, yada, yada.
Ha, ha, ha. We did Superman Unchained, which
was the Scott Snyder story. And the reason why
I wanted to do that one was because I had already
read all Scott Snyder's Batman. I want to see
how he handled Superman. think uh from what i
remember from that episode my buddy ryan and
i we liked it but it was a nice little one -off
it was never an ongoing kind of thing so that's
kind of that my history with superman comics
as far as that goes everything else has been
movies tv cartoons etc so I'm doing this specific
one to see if we have... Maybe I'm going to go
back and read some Superman comics at some point.
I don't know. What is your... Okay, let's see.
Follow the thing I set out here. The man has
had a very varied history since 1938 -39 when
he debuted, and he's gone through a whole lot
of stories. 57, no, it's like, what is it, over
75? Is it 75 years? Jeez. It's longer than that.
Yeah, I'm doing the math. 1932. I have 86 years
at this point. Yeah, 86 years. It's almost 100,
close to 100. Yeah, 86 years of Superman, folks.
So you said as long as his main part of his character
is he's always doing right. Do we think because,
I mean, most babies that get sent to Earth from
a different planet don't really have time to...
Does Jor -El and Lara have any impact on his
character in the way he is, or is it all Jonathan
and Martha? Well, you can argue back and forth
depending on what stories you read. You know,
in the origin story back in 1938. He was essentially
an infant when he arrived on Earth. But if you
go later on in books, in the Silver Age, he was
probably a little older than that, probably a
toddler when Jonathan and Martha found him. So
in most Silver Age stories, he has some memory
of Krypton, and he has some memory of Jor -El
and Lara. So in some of those stories, because
again, it depends on what time period you're
looking at. In some cases, you can say, well,
it's the innate goodness of his parents that
is coming through in him. Right. In fact, in
one Bronze Age story, there's a story where the
guardians of the universe. They decide that either
Jor -El or Lara would have made a good Green
Lantern. And so the mixture of those genes, C
-L -L, they thought, well, we could make him
the leader of an independent Green Lantern Corps
just based on his genetic heritage. And then
once he got sent to Earth and he became Superman,
they decided, well... When the universe gives
you a Superman, you don't turn him into a Green
Lantern. But that story sort of implied that
a lot of his indie character came from his parents.
But also, you've got to look at it as he grew
up in Smallville with Martha. And in a lot of
the Superboy stories in Silver Age, they're...
you know, helping him through his early years
as a young superhero and giving him guidance
as to, you know, what's wrong. Maybe he's going
that way, this way. So you can kind of lay it
either way. You can say it's genetics, you know,
it's nature or nurture. Genetics for how he was
brought up. Or, you know, I kind of think of
it as a combination. Although, there was obviously
some innate goodness in him. But, you know, Jonathan
and Martha Kent obviously helped that along.
It's never easy. Yeah. You know, you can really
look at it however you want. A lot of, you know,
I think a lot of the other stories that I've
only read about haven't been read. It's kind
of ever popular, dark, and pretty. Yeah. Yeah.
Well, yeah, I mean, you know, unless, what is
it? Blue, yellow, red. I forget which one changes
him. Yes. That's what I thought. Like, yeah,
generally he's a good guy unless he's got. Red
Kryptonite poisoning somewhere. Yeah. Oh, boy.
I know. It's Silver Age silliness, but... No,
no, no. I mean, look, you know, you can't...
Yeah, you say it may be Silver Age silliness,
but that's what it was. It's like, you know,
okay, well, the green Kryptonite kills him. Well...
Krypton was made of other parts or other whatevers.
Let's see what happens with other colors. Like,
you know, I mean, that's like the lantern core.
Again, going back to them. It's not just green
lanterns. It's yellow lanterns. It's red lanterns.
It's orange lanterns. It's indigo lanterns. It's
like there's a color for everything. So, you
know, this is what it is. But, yeah. And I, yeah,
I don't know. I never had an interest, and I
don't know if there's any comics that could be
recommended to me to make me have an interest.
It was never interesting to me to have him on
Crypt. The point of the interesting part of the
story is that this is a baby whose parents are
trying to save him by shipping him off to Earth.
that poor soul uh to you know escape the exploding
planet because the planet's gonna explode and
they want to save their son so yeah obviously
the story mainly is gonna be with with earth
and with the kents and everything else the funny
thing for me is i never had an interest in the
superboy part of it it was always he lands you
see him you know pick the truck up in his red
underwear uh i'm specifically meaning the movie
because you know similar to what you'll see in
a lot of the early yeah yeah exactly he picks
the truck up you get maybe a few little montage
scenes and the next thing you know he's you know
pushing his glasses up for the first time and
oh well gee uh lois i don't know too much about
uh all that kind of stuff being from smallville
And I'm not here. I'm not like I what I've read
of the character and what I've seen of the character
in my lifetime and 44 years of me being on this
planet. I love aspects of the character. The
point of this is specifically for this episode
is for me to learn and figure out what other
Superman stories I may want to cover on the podcast
in the future. But yeah, his character. And his
personality, like you said, at the end of the
day, as long as he's doing good, as long as he's
doing the right thing for all humankind kind
of thing. What was your most, out of all the
Superman stories you've read, what was the most
interesting one to you? Interesting you ask that
because one of my all -time favorite stories
is what we used to call an imaginary story. Where
it's, you know, as they used to say, you know,
this is a story that... Didn't happen, but maybe
it will someday. It was the amazing story of
Superman Red, Superman Blue, where it starts
out with Superman having a big list that he has
made. I think he's been scolded by the people
in the bottle city of Kandor. You promised to
expand our city to normal size, and you've never
done it. and all these other jobs that you promised
to do and you haven't done them. So maybe you
should switch places with one of us, and your
replacement can do all these things. And so he's
got this big, long list. He wants to eliminate
all crime and evil. He wants to get rid of all
the kryptonite on Earth. He wants to enlarge
the bottle city of Kandor. He wants to do all
these different things. And so he's like, I'm
going to do this. This is it. And again, this
is an imaginary story. So he cobbles together
this weird sort of helmet or crown, if you like,
powered by all different colors of kryptonite.
And he goes in this glass box. puts this thing
on his head because it's going to make him like
a hundred times smarter than he is. And he'll
be able to figure out all this stuff. And he
puts this on and, you know, Supergirl's there
with him and she turns the power on on the machine.
And very quickly, he starts screaming in pain.
And she said, no, no, you got to stop. No, no,
keep going. We're going to do this. And then,
you know, the machine explodes. And the dust
clears, and there are now two superheroes. One
of them, his uniform is essentially all red,
and the other one, his uniform is essentially
all blue. And they each have Superman's powers,
but they are each many, many times smarter than
the original superhero. So they decide, well,
we can work together and solve all the world's
problems. Basically, that's kind of what they
do. They go and they build a set of orbiting
satellites that emit an anti -evil ray. Because,
of course, it's the Silver Age, so you can do
that. And so this thing, it eliminates all evil
thoughts from everybody on Earth. And so now,
all the criminals... who are on Earth, and all
the bad people on Earth, they're now good. They
want to do good things. Lex Luthor, he decides
he's going to help. So he creates a serum that
will cure all diseases. It cures cancer, it cures
his baldness, it cures whatever, anything that's
wrong with him. And so he gives it to the Superman,
and he says, just put drops of this in the water
supplies all around the world, and it will cure
every illness. on Earth. This is how powerful
this thing is that Luthor has created. Like I
said, it brings his hair back. So he does that.
And once this happens, we see Supergirl letting
everybody out of the Phantom. Superman's like,
what happened? Did the evil Rey work backwards
on her? Now, I realize that It will work on them
too. So take them out of the phantom zone and
they will be exposed to the anti -ghost. So they'll
be good with their superpowers. So they've got
rid of all the evil on earth and all of the evil
in the phantom zone. And Brainiac happens to
come to earth and it works on him. But it works
on him so he joins in. Interesting. The two Supermen
figure out how to enlarge the bottle city of
Kandor. They also figure out how to eliminate
Kryptonite. And basically what they do with the
Kryptonite is they send it all back to the original
location in Krypton. And in the process, it reverses
the explosion. And now there is this planet no
longer radioactive orbiting the Red Sun was rich
and then the Superman go and Must take a rocket
ship And they the bottle city of kandor so they
recreate the ecosystem and it turns out then
that the people from the bottle city of kandor
they've lived their lives in a kryptonian environment
they want to keep doing that but they want to
do it at their normal size on their home planet
so he has a space arc he like enlarges them all
He takes them back to Krypton and larges the
Bottle City on Krypton. So now there's this fully
built city on Krypton and a full -size population
for the city. So they're back on Krypton. Ooh,
technical difficulties. Let's move on, shall
we? They've got that. And all these good things
are happening. And then they decide, well, there's
two of us. Superman, Red, and Blue. The big question
has always been lowest or lowest. Oh, God. They
each get one. They each get one. So they have
to decide who gets which one. So as you do, they
take two steel girders and bend them into the
shape of L's. So they've got L, L. L, L. And
they go on top of a mountain during a thunderstorm.
What they decide is, whichever one has their
elf struck by lightning first gets first choice.
Is that so romantic? Okay. Okay. So, of course,
as would happen, both are struck at the same
time. Of course. Now, you know, now how do we
decide? And the one says, well, if I had had
first choice, I would have picked Flo. The other
one says, well, I would have picked Lance. There
you go. Problem solved. Problem solved. They
each get to marry the woman that they want. And
it's a triple wedding because Jimmy Olsen and
Lucy Linning get married too. So all three of
them are getting married. So all this wonderful
stuff. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Jimmy and
Lucy got married to each other? Yeah. Because
they've been dating forever. Oh, okay. So. So
now everybody's married off. All these meeting
characters that have been romantically thwarted
for years are now all married. And they decide,
well, the one Superman, I think it's Superman
Red, decides, well, he wants to go back to Krypton.
He doesn't want to be a superhero. He wants to
be a regular Kryptonian. Right. Supergirl says,
well, I'll go too. Crypto and Super Horse, of
course, his powers are based on magic. So they'll
have some super being on. So they all go back
to Krypton. But the other Superman, blue, he
decides he'll stay on Earth. The Earth doesn't
really need him because there's no more crime.
There's no illness. So. He just sends his robots
out, you know, to take care of emergencies that
arise. And he devotes himself to the study of
science with his mother, Jor -El. He and Lois
have a couple of kids. They settle down on Krypton.
Superman Red and Anna have a couple of kids.
Skype intergalactically or Zoom intergalactically
with each other between Earth and Krypton. Everybody
seems to be living happily ever after, but the
story ends with, so what do you think, reader?
Who is happier, Superman Red and Lana or Superman
Blue and Lois? But I just love that story because
to me, it's the happy ending that everybody deserves.
I always say, whenever somebody brings up...
the Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow
story that was the end of that continuity before
the John Byrne reboot. They should have just
republished Superman. Everybody gets a happy
ending. Because Whatever Happened to the Man
of Tomorrow is not a happy ending. Many long
-time characters die horribly, including Krypto.
Like, don't kill the dog. Yeah, don't kill. What
do you want to kill the dog for? Come on, man.
Don't kill the dog. That's ridiculous. That just
reinforced my love of Superman, Red and Superman.
I like that story better. Again, that's my opinion.
I know a lot of people like the other story better,
but it gets to decide what they like. Well, and
again, I mean, that's why I had you here. It
was because, you know, to give your opinion.
And it's fine. I have strong opinions. Don't
we all? Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's
got one. There is no wrong opinion. There's just
smellier ones than others. So, yeah, for me with
it, like. Now, looking at Superman Red and Blue,
I'm like, oh, that's where those Funko Pops come
from. They come from the modern story, the 1998
story. Yeah. Because I kept seeing, I'm like,
oh, that's cool. They repainted Superman, not
thinking, oh, right, it's not just Funko repainting
the Funko Pop. It's them making an homage to
something, which is really cool. And again, I
think I want to read the original Silver Age
story, even though those colors are a lot. Well,
I mean, I'm a big fan of Silver Age because that's
when I grew up. But even I will admit, some of
the stories, when you read them, you just go,
what? well yeah i mean this is the same thing
i did with like the marvel transformers issues
from the 80s like what why are you what oh yeah
no and that's the thing and i don't say that
judgingly to the point of oh my god that's the
worst thing it's just like it's more confusion
than being judgmental yeah and it's like how
do they get away with that Oh, I'll be judgmental
about some stuff, too. Well, yeah, but at this
point, since I've never read any of these things,
again, like I said earlier in the episode, the
point is to see if there's stuff that I want
to cover on the podcast in the future. But just
seeing that classic quote -unquote classic 1998
cover with the blue and white and red and white,
just those are the red and blue super... And
then looking at the small little image Wikipedia
has for the original Silver Age story you just
synopsized for us, I'm like, ooh, all red and
all blue. And technically that's not all blue,
because if that was all blue, his S would be
blue, not red and yellow. Oh, I think that was
branding. I think the DC didn't want to mess
with that symbol. Yeah, probably. I mean, nowadays
they might well do that, because there are so
many different S symbols now. Yeah. Yep, yep.
I'm trying to see here. And obviously I know
this is, I think I probably asked you this in
your origins episode, but I don't remember. It's
been so long and I'm old. And yes, I know I'm
not that old, but I'm old. I have brain damage,
damn it. Leave me alone. But has there ever been
a Superman story where they twisted his character
so much that you just didn't want to read it?
Or do you read everything anyway? Well, as far
as the stuff I grew up with, I would say, no,
there's, there's never been a story, but there
have been times where I've, especially more modern
times where I go, that just doesn't feel right.
Yeah. You know, I, I remember when, when John
Byrne, I would, I would practically. because
it was like, this is not Superman I grew up loving.
First of all, and again, I understand it because
many people did not like the idea of Superboy.
So one of the things he did was get rid of Superboy.
I always liked the characters. If you get rid
of him, I'm inclined not to like what you're
doing. Not just for the character of Superboy,
but for other beloved set of characters for me,
the Legion of Superheroes. 30th century superhero
teenagers who were inspired by Superboy and who
came back from the 30th century to the 20th century
to prank Superboy and invite him to come to the
30th century and, you know, eventually had him
join the Legion. So you get rid of Superboy,
you really have to deal with what does that mean
for Supergirl? I didn't really like what came
from that. And that was kind of my first big
thing. I could read through the John Byrne reboot,
but I don't want to say it was hate reading.
If I hate something, I just won't read it. But
I wasn't enjoying it. the way I wanted. Yeah.
Well, I got to give this guy a shot. And similarly
later on, because after that I kind of petered
out reading a lot of Superman. But then when
Brian Michael Bendis came along and everybody
was leaving, he's doing a new version of Superman.
And I thought, well, let me see what that's like.
I started reading some of his stuff and it was
okay for me, but not great. But he, as, as somebody
explained to me, he writes for a long story.
I grew up on comics where you could read three
Superman stories. Yeah. Whereas I read, I think
I read the first year. Brian Michael Benson.
And I'm like, I'm 12 issues in and I haven't
read a complete story. It's just long, meandering.
When is it going to get to the point? And eventually
I gave up on that. This is not what I read comics.
No shade to people who like that. So I can't
say I got to the point where it's like... No,
I can't stand this version of Superman. Or I
don't really like this kind of storytelling.
I don't think it's doing anything horrible for
the characters. Yeah. I usually give writers
one story arc. If they're only going to be there
for one story arc, I will try their one story
arc. which is usually six issues. And then I
will try the next person's story arc. But usually
after that seventh issue, if it's not really
grabbing me, I'm like, and this is with any comic,
this isn't just superhero stuff, but anything
like, you know, I'll give you a shot, but you.
Especially with comics having to be monthly and
have to get the monthly people coming back, coming
back. You better do something in your number
one or your number two issue that's going to
make me want to stick with this the whole time.
And if you don't, then I'm just going to respectfully
move on to something else that I want to enjoy.
I'm at the point now, partly because I can't
put the investment in. 12 or 15 or 20 issues
before I get to the point of the story. But also
it's like beyond that, I'm cheap. And so what
I usually do, if there's something I think I
might be interested in, I will wait until the
trade comes out and then go to my local library
and see if they have it. I'm not spending a ton
of money on a story that I don't know whether
I'm going to like, but also I know if I pick
up the trade. I can probably get the complete
story. Yeah. Rather than waiting monthly, you
know, month after month after month. Yeah. That's
the one thing I wish that the big two would have
switched coming out of the pandemic. I wish,
and I know that they'll never do this, that they'll
still be selling monthly books long after any
of us are gone kind of thing. But I wish that.
the pandemic would have done something to these
two comic book companies to where, oh, we need
to change this up. Let's start selling trade
paperbacks. Let's start, instead of piecemealing
month to month to month to have these people
come back, let's give them the whole story. Let's
write stories to be whole, you know, collected
edition stories kind of thing and not worry about.
the month to month to month to month to month.
And yes, I know that is a higher cost that let's
just say for, it's usually issues one to five
or one to six. If it's an ongoing, let's just
say that's anywhere from 15 to $30 per trade
per month. You're basically, I'm now seeing the
flow on this logic because if you like more than
just one character, then you're going to be spending
a hell of a lot more money. But yeah. I don't
know. You're right. I've been waiting for the
trade forever most of the time. Half the time
when we cover comics on the podcast, it's in
trade. I don't do single -issue reviews unless
it's specifically something like the DC Black
Label stuff. They said these are just going to
be three -issue miniseries. Okay, fine. I think
the Superman one is the only one we covered,
and we didn't even finish it, folks. So what
does that tell you about DC Black Label? I don't
know. So you mentioned Byrne. You mentioned Bendis.
Who would you say, for you, is your favorite?
And I know I asked you this way back when, but
looking at all of the writers, looking at everything
that has been written with Superman and stories,
Who are your favorite storytellers when it comes
to The Man of Steel, when it comes to the writers?
I would say probably either at or very close
to the top for me is L .A. Das Magnus. I really
like the stories that he wrote for the comics,
but even beyond that, his novels. He had the
first one he wrote, Superman. And then my favorite
of his is the Oracle Fundamentals. They're novels,
and they're not, like, if you just, at the time
it came out, if you picked up Superman, Last
Son of Krypton, you would think it was based
on one of the Christopher Reeves movies, because
that's the picture on the cover. When it first
came out, there was, like, a section in the middle
of the book of photos from the movie. So if you
weren't paying attention, you would think it
was like a novelization of a movie, which it's
not. It's a completely original story. It has
nothing to do with any of the movies, but it's
a really good story. I think Magan, whether he's
writing a novel or whether he was writing a comic
book, he has a real feel for the character of
Superman. but also for the character of the movie.
I think he really understands each of those characters
and the dynamic between them. I think it's really
good. Another one of my favorite writers, not
so much for character creation, but just, I'm
a sci -fi fan, and in the 60s, particularly,
Superman was essentially a science fiction character.
And if you want good science fiction superhero
stuff, Edmund Hamilton is hard to beat. He is
really good with science fiction. Totally different
style than, say, Agate, but I think those two
are probably pretty close. Very cool, very cool.
86 years, there's a lot with any comic book character
that's been around that long. But some of those
Elseworlds stuff, some of that stuff is interesting.
Some of that stuff is cool. Oh, yeah. I mean,
you can probably find stories that have Superman
in just about any situation you can imagine,
whether it's an in -continuity story or an imaginary.
Anything you can think of, you can probably put
Superman in any kind of situation. Absolutely.
Kind of like Dark Knights of Steel. Oh, my God.
What is this? Oh, boy. That's a whole other.
I don't know what they're doing over there at
DC, but that was a story from 2012. This is interesting.
Well, it says it was a 12 -issue series. But
Wikipedia still has it listed as January 2022
dash. So they may go back to it at some point,
I guess. I don't know. Or whoever wrote the Wikipedia
article. Just never. Yeah, probably. That's usually
how it goes. But who knows? Who knows? Like I
said, folks, this is a trial run here. I do know
Dave is a huge Superman fan, as you can clearly
hear. I have some ideas now of Superman stuff
that I may want to cover in the future on the
podcast. Clark and Superman, go farm boy. I don't
know. He's always been one of those characters
that it's like, I'll get to it when I get to
it. For me, it's never been about the comics
and the comics that I've tried so far. Like I
said, I remember enjoying the Scott Snyder Unchained.
series, the nine -issue series, but man, that
Miller, oh, you Batman whore. To me, you can't
treat Superman the way you would treat Batman.
No. For me, again, growing up, I always will
think of them as good friends, but they have...
really different approaches, even though I have
to say in the Silver Age, they didn't really
have different... Superman and Batman were both
smiley, happy people. I know a lot of Batman
fans will find that astonishing, but the Adam
West Batman didn't come out of nowhere. Oh, yeah.
No, they didn't just pull it out of their butts,
folks. They got it from the comics. And, you
know, yeah. Anything else you would like to say?
Anything you think we missed? Again, folks, like
I've said multiple times, this is a trial run.
Most people listening to this probably didn't
think we gave enough time to Superman, but we've
been recording for almost an hour. So any final
thoughts from you, sir? Nothing particularly
profound, but, you know, I think for anybody
that... That hasn't really explored the character
of Superman. Like you said, with 85 years of
history, I think anybody can find a version of
Superman. People my age tend to enjoy the stuff
that I enjoy. Silverade. And younger people enjoy
later stuff. I think most people could probably
enjoy a lot of the early olden age stuff. It's
a much more rough sort of Superman, but there's
fun there too. I mean, I think read Superman
for fun because he's a fun character. Imagine
if you could fly and if you were in home, you
would, you would have a ball. lying around and
knowing you couldn't hurt yourself. Forget, oh,
I would go rob banks or I would do this. Just
imagine what an eight -year -old kid would think
about this. I could fly and I could just jump
off a building and I wouldn't hurt myself. It's
fun. You can find fun in supermarkets. You can't.
You're probably not looking. That's kind of my
opinion. in general. Or particularly, as far
as this podcast goes, if it's not good, it's
more my fault than theirs. No, stop it. Stop
it, stop it, stop it. But again, the whole point
of this is to explore the character that we can,
and I said, like, I'm going to be inviting veterans
of the character, people like Dave, who have
read All 86 years. Because, you know, he's just
that ancient. Or you could look for somebody
who's as ambitious as John Wilson. Who has probably
read at least as much Superman as I have. Even
though he's considerably younger. He's the completest.
That man and his, oh my god. I don't know how
he does it. I'm a machine when it comes to podcasts,
and I'm in the middle of doing all kinds of stuff
over on Studio 2009. We're releasing 31 podcasts
for 31 days in December and December, but like,
oh boy, his Superman reading, oh boy, wow. We
did a whole podcast on it. He is amazingly dedicated.
Once he decides to do something, he's going to
do the very best. Absolutely. Absolutely. All
right, folks, I'm sure there's plenty. I missed
being the newbie here, but this, like I said,
multiple times in this episode is a K trial run.
We can always come back to Clark Kent in the
future and do an updated version of this, or
I can just start covering Superman books at some
point next year or the year after or whenever
the heck it is. Coming up next here inside the
pull bag, I honestly have no clue because, like
I said, I'm recording this 10 episodes ahead
of where I'm supposed to be editing. So I have
no idea what you've already heard in the podcast's
lineage from 572 to 564 going backwards. And
then from 574 onward, I have no idea. All I know
is I have to get to episode 599. before the end
of the year because next year is going to be
sporadic for the podcast for the first time in
years because we are going to be somehow right
now i only have 58 days out of 90 but we're going
to be doing 90 nights in nightwing if i can find
40 more nightwing trade paperbacks So yeah, coming
up inside the pull bag, no clue, but I'm sure
people will listen to it and like it. If you
guys have suggestions, or I've got a couple of
people that I'm thinking about with Batman, Bruce
Wayne, and Iron Man, Tony Stark. Those were Batman,
Superman, Superman, Batman, and Iron Man were
the first three that I thought to do this little
series within a series of four. So, yeah, that's
what's coming up here inside the podcast. You're
probably going to get more Skybound, G .I. Joe,
and Void Rivals crossovers from Jesse Early's
podcast, another comic review. We've been reviewing
the Transformers, G .I. Joe, all the Skybound
books over there, and I've been cross -promoting
the G .I. Joe, specifically the miniseries and
probably the new ongoing that's going to happen
in November. By the time you people hear this,
it's probably way past that. So, yeah. Okay.
Thank you for joining us here inside the pullback.
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You don't use Twitter, do you, Dave? No, I don't.
No, okay. That's what I figured. I didn't use
it when I was Twitter, and I'm even less. A little
less, yeah. I've got 16 years into that thing.
I'm not like I'm ignoring all the drama. I'll
say that. And yeah, that I have said this recently
on podcasts. I said that that platform is like
the biggest clicky in my life. Get in, post what
you want to post and get out. Whereas at least
ten and a half years ago, actually having conversations
on that platform. Now, not so much here. Here's
the podcast. Listen if you would like to. Please
do so. Yada, yada, yada. And then get the hell
out and go find something else to do. You can
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over there as well. Next time, as I said, I'm
not going to say because I have no idea. It's
listed as a Comic Origins episode, but I don't
know if that's what's going to happen or not.
So for now, I am TF2 and Mike with Dave. Can
I go, buddy? As always, make your greatest game
in the comics, and we will catch you next time.
What do you think of the name Christopher? Now,
Martha, let's discuss this. Or Kevin? Martha.
Or Kirk. I know. We can use my maiden name. What
do you think of Clark? Clark Kent. Yeah, yes,
Miss Stevenson. Ten and a half years ago, we
were actually actually having conversations.
Actually, actually, what the hell? You've just
heard the latest episode of The Pull Bag, the
GCRN's first comic review and discussion podcast.
There are several ways to get in touch with us
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