WEBVTT

00:00:01.050 --> 00:00:03.229
Hi, this is Jim Meskimen, voice of the Blue Genie,

00:00:03.229 --> 00:00:05.030
and what geeks are you listening to? I'll tell

00:00:05.030 --> 00:00:07.509
you. You're listening to The Cinema Geeks. Always

00:00:07.509 --> 00:00:08.849
know what geeks you're listening to. It's very

00:00:08.849 --> 00:00:24.750
important. Hello, and welcome to episode 257

00:00:24.750 --> 00:00:26.289
of The Cinema Geeks. I am one of your Cinema

00:00:26.289 --> 00:00:28.089
Geeks optimists, Solo, and joining me as usual

00:00:28.089 --> 00:00:31.199
is the Comic Concierge. Hello, Dan. Hey, how's

00:00:31.199 --> 00:00:35.359
it going? It is going, going well. It's storming

00:00:35.359 --> 00:00:36.880
here, so hopefully none of that comes across

00:00:36.880 --> 00:00:40.619
in the record. It's been very stormy all day

00:00:40.619 --> 00:00:42.820
for sure, but that's fine because it finally

00:00:42.820 --> 00:00:45.719
got us away from like some record heat that we

00:00:45.719 --> 00:00:49.439
were experiencing recently. So I'm all for that

00:00:49.439 --> 00:00:52.700
if it makes it, if it like puts us into Florida's

00:00:52.700 --> 00:00:56.350
version of the fall, I guess. i don't know which

00:00:56.350 --> 00:01:00.670
is really just hurricane season so whatever fingers

00:01:00.670 --> 00:01:02.289
crossed but yeah that's what's going on with

00:01:02.289 --> 00:01:05.390
me and i i believe all your kiddos are in school

00:01:05.390 --> 00:01:08.409
now right yeah yeah we're fully back in school

00:01:08.409 --> 00:01:10.870
it's kind of crazy summer kind of flew by this

00:01:10.870 --> 00:01:13.629
year doing the back to school night all that

00:01:13.629 --> 00:01:17.170
fun stuff my oldest is now middle school and

00:01:17.170 --> 00:01:19.129
that hurts me dearly in a lot of different ways

00:01:19.129 --> 00:01:23.450
so it's uh it's crazy so that's been you know

00:01:24.299 --> 00:01:27.920
I thought it was bad that my daughter wasn't

00:01:27.920 --> 00:01:29.620
going into first grade, but middle school I can't

00:01:29.620 --> 00:01:33.939
even fathom. It's crazy. In the blink of an eye.

00:01:34.620 --> 00:01:39.700
Growing up, I didn't have middle school. I did,

00:01:39.739 --> 00:01:43.939
but technically didn't because we had elementary

00:01:43.939 --> 00:01:46.239
school, which was K -6 grade, and then we went

00:01:46.239 --> 00:01:49.540
into junior high, high school. So 7th grade to

00:01:49.540 --> 00:01:52.849
12th grade was all in the same school. And realizing

00:01:52.849 --> 00:01:55.390
as an adult, like, that's a bad idea. Because,

00:01:55.390 --> 00:01:58.530
like, yeah, most classes were separated, but

00:01:58.530 --> 00:02:00.390
not all. Like, we had gym class together. And

00:02:00.390 --> 00:02:03.450
I'm thinking, like, why would they put seventh

00:02:03.450 --> 00:02:06.030
graders and, like, 18 -year -olds? Like, that's

00:02:06.030 --> 00:02:09.449
crazy talk. But it was a very small school. I

00:02:09.449 --> 00:02:11.849
think every school does it, like, it seems like

00:02:11.849 --> 00:02:13.310
it does it a little bit different. I also went

00:02:13.310 --> 00:02:17.169
to a super small school. And we only had two

00:02:17.169 --> 00:02:19.210
buildings, two school buildings in the town.

00:02:19.710 --> 00:02:23.729
and one of them was k through eight and then

00:02:23.729 --> 00:02:26.530
the other one was high school and the difference

00:02:26.530 --> 00:02:30.189
in the k through eight building was i mean it

00:02:30.189 --> 00:02:33.750
was multiple stories like yeah i think you i

00:02:33.750 --> 00:02:35.349
think there was at least enough stairs to go

00:02:35.349 --> 00:02:39.689
up like four levels three or four levels and

00:02:39.689 --> 00:02:43.330
there was one part of the school that was the

00:02:43.330 --> 00:02:45.669
what we called our junior high which was sixth

00:02:45.669 --> 00:02:48.469
seventh and eighth grade Okay. So sixth, seventh,

00:02:48.469 --> 00:02:50.909
and eighth grade had like a different level or

00:02:50.909 --> 00:02:52.569
a different section of the school. And then the

00:02:52.569 --> 00:02:54.370
K through five was all kind of on the lower levels.

00:02:54.729 --> 00:02:58.069
So they kept us separated fairly well. And then

00:02:58.069 --> 00:03:01.789
it was in sixth grade was when you started changing

00:03:01.789 --> 00:03:04.810
classes for every period. So sixth, seventh,

00:03:04.830 --> 00:03:06.030
and eighth grade, you had like a different teacher

00:03:06.030 --> 00:03:07.550
for every subject and all that kind of stuff.

00:03:07.629 --> 00:03:10.330
Whereas, you know, K through five, you didn't

00:03:10.330 --> 00:03:11.770
have that. A little bit with fourth and fifth,

00:03:11.810 --> 00:03:13.569
I think we changed for like math and maybe English.

00:03:13.629 --> 00:03:15.889
But other than that, I guess. you just basically

00:03:15.889 --> 00:03:17.509
just had your your own classrooms then we had

00:03:17.509 --> 00:03:21.150
to travel uh two blocks down the road to go to

00:03:21.150 --> 00:03:23.169
the high school which was one block from my house

00:03:23.169 --> 00:03:24.650
and that just kind of tells you how small this

00:03:24.650 --> 00:03:28.310
town was so there you go there was no uh there

00:03:28.310 --> 00:03:30.509
was no need for a bus for me like i could i could

00:03:30.509 --> 00:03:33.629
either walk a block but i either had to walk

00:03:33.629 --> 00:03:36.610
a block to high school or i had to walk like

00:03:36.610 --> 00:03:40.409
maybe six blocks to k through eight so interesting

00:03:40.409 --> 00:03:42.490
i don't think they would make me walk in kindergarten

00:03:42.490 --> 00:03:45.050
but ours was just a lot of small towns together

00:03:45.050 --> 00:03:47.030
because like i couldn't walk to my schools because

00:03:47.030 --> 00:03:50.030
it was too far my elementary school like one

00:03:50.030 --> 00:03:54.009
time for uh we rode our bikes the last day of

00:03:54.009 --> 00:03:57.389
school because this will bring it back to movies

00:03:57.389 --> 00:03:59.250
because the last day of school was on a wednesday

00:03:59.250 --> 00:04:03.330
and on the way back like it was like the town

00:04:03.330 --> 00:04:05.889
and the town is like the it was the place that

00:04:05.889 --> 00:04:08.030
had a grocery store and a movie store because

00:04:08.030 --> 00:04:10.949
that was basically all that existed but on wednesdays

00:04:10.949 --> 00:04:13.740
you got like half it's like two dollar rentals

00:04:13.740 --> 00:04:15.900
or something like that oh so it's like the first

00:04:15.900 --> 00:04:18.500
day of summer we're gonna do like we we're gonna

00:04:18.500 --> 00:04:20.040
have a sleepover my one friend so we're like

00:04:20.040 --> 00:04:21.879
all the neighborhood so it's gonna be like four

00:04:21.879 --> 00:04:24.319
or five kids and we're gonna do a sleepover and

00:04:24.319 --> 00:04:27.740
like so he went to rent a bunch of movies and

00:04:27.740 --> 00:04:30.980
like video games and stuff like that and we did

00:04:30.980 --> 00:04:34.660
our bikes to do that and uh yeah i think it was

00:04:34.660 --> 00:04:37.560
one of the things lost yeah lost element of life

00:04:37.560 --> 00:04:40.209
like i remember doing that so much And then I

00:04:40.209 --> 00:04:42.790
brought nothing back on time and had these really

00:04:42.790 --> 00:04:44.850
bad fees, and my parents got really mad at me.

00:04:45.089 --> 00:04:47.529
So that, yeah. That was the catch. That was definitely

00:04:47.529 --> 00:04:50.389
the catch. But then the police went out of business,

00:04:50.490 --> 00:04:52.589
so we didn't have to pay. Oh, well, there you

00:04:52.589 --> 00:04:54.889
go. You got out of it. There you go. I remember

00:04:54.889 --> 00:04:57.310
the thing was always going to rent something

00:04:57.310 --> 00:04:59.209
on a Friday or a Saturday night when you were

00:04:59.209 --> 00:05:02.550
about to have the sleepover, right? And for us,

00:05:02.610 --> 00:05:05.660
if you were doing a game. The object was to beat

00:05:05.660 --> 00:05:08.680
that game and that like one to two days before

00:05:08.680 --> 00:05:12.300
you had to return it. So I was, uh, yeah, we,

00:05:12.379 --> 00:05:14.680
we had a video rental place too. It wasn't blockbuster,

00:05:14.779 --> 00:05:17.579
but it was, uh, it was a video store of some

00:05:17.579 --> 00:05:20.579
sort. And, uh, yeah, I was just called one called

00:05:20.579 --> 00:05:22.540
solid state. And then we had another one that

00:05:22.540 --> 00:05:25.680
was called McDonald's video, but, and it wasn't

00:05:25.680 --> 00:05:26.980
had nothing to do with it. It's this kid. It

00:05:26.980 --> 00:05:29.120
really confused me. Cause I'm like, wait, how

00:05:29.120 --> 00:05:31.560
does McDonald's has a video store and it's, but

00:05:31.560 --> 00:05:32.879
it was just the last name of the people that

00:05:32.879 --> 00:05:36.540
owned it. I don't know the story behind why ours

00:05:36.540 --> 00:05:39.300
was called what it was, but ours was called WHO,

00:05:39.579 --> 00:05:44.139
like W -H -O, WHO Video. That was the name of

00:05:44.139 --> 00:05:46.720
the video rental place. Don't ask me any questions.

00:05:46.759 --> 00:05:49.720
I don't know. All right. But yeah, speaking of

00:05:49.720 --> 00:05:54.680
movies. Yeah. We're here to talk about some more

00:05:54.680 --> 00:05:57.459
of our Western retrospective. So we've been bouncing

00:05:57.459 --> 00:06:00.240
back and forth between talking about planets

00:06:00.240 --> 00:06:04.819
of apes and talking about... The Wild West. So

00:06:04.819 --> 00:06:07.120
today it's back to The Wild West. And this is

00:06:07.120 --> 00:06:10.759
the last in our, we're going to rename it the

00:06:10.759 --> 00:06:13.860
Dimitri Tiomkin block, but this film wouldn't

00:06:13.860 --> 00:06:16.839
work for that. So it's our second classic block

00:06:16.839 --> 00:06:20.779
here. We've talked about Red River and High Noon

00:06:20.779 --> 00:06:24.199
and Rio Bravo. And today we are going to talk

00:06:24.199 --> 00:06:29.560
about the 1953 film, Shane. So just remind everybody,

00:06:29.660 --> 00:06:31.399
Dan, what was your experience with Shane going

00:06:31.399 --> 00:06:34.279
into this one? So I have seen this before, but

00:06:34.279 --> 00:06:37.199
it's been like 15 years, so I didn't really remember.

00:06:37.540 --> 00:06:40.000
I got a good idea of what the general plot is

00:06:40.000 --> 00:06:41.819
because it's pretty straightforward, but I didn't

00:06:41.819 --> 00:06:43.420
remember much of the details, so it's been a

00:06:43.420 --> 00:06:46.319
while. Okay, and it was a blind spot for me,

00:06:46.339 --> 00:06:48.519
as have most of the Western retrospective films

00:06:48.519 --> 00:06:52.680
been. So before we get into our thoughts after

00:06:52.680 --> 00:06:55.660
we watch the film, let's let Dan lay the groundwork

00:06:55.660 --> 00:06:59.879
and spit some facts. Did kids ever say that?

00:06:59.939 --> 00:07:02.629
I don't know. Here's just the facts about Shane.

00:07:03.110 --> 00:07:05.149
Personally, I don't get what the big deal is.

00:07:05.250 --> 00:07:08.069
I love soda pop because this week we continue

00:07:08.069 --> 00:07:10.569
our Western retrospective with a look at Shane

00:07:10.569 --> 00:07:14.699
from 1953. directed by George Stevens. The story

00:07:14.699 --> 00:07:16.500
takes place in the Wyoming territory in the late

00:07:16.500 --> 00:07:19.680
19th century. Shane is this mysterious gunslinger

00:07:19.680 --> 00:07:22.699
trying to leave his violent past behind. He arrives

00:07:22.699 --> 00:07:24.920
in the valley where homesteader Joe Starrett

00:07:24.920 --> 00:07:28.540
lives with his wife and young son, Joey. Shane

00:07:28.540 --> 00:07:31.120
takes a job working for the Starrett family and

00:07:31.120 --> 00:07:33.639
quickly becomes very close to them, Joey especially.

00:07:34.120 --> 00:07:37.279
Joey sees him as this hero, this person to look

00:07:37.279 --> 00:07:40.439
up to. Shane hopes to live peacefully, but the

00:07:40.439 --> 00:07:43.410
valley is being torn apart by a conflict between

00:07:43.410 --> 00:07:45.930
the homesteaders and a wealthy cattle rancher,

00:07:45.990 --> 00:07:48.329
Rufus Riker. You should have known something

00:07:48.329 --> 00:07:51.649
when his name was Rufus. Riker wants the homesteaders

00:07:51.649 --> 00:07:54.470
off the land because their small farms interfere

00:07:54.470 --> 00:07:57.430
with his cattle operation. He employs imitation

00:07:57.430 --> 00:08:01.009
and violent tactics, using a ruthless gunfighter,

00:08:01.050 --> 00:08:04.209
Jack Wilson, to terrorize the settlers. Wilson

00:08:04.209 --> 00:08:06.689
even eventually kills the homesteader. named

00:08:06.689 --> 00:08:09.949
Stonewall Tori, escalating the conflict even

00:08:09.949 --> 00:08:12.389
further. At the funeral, the settlers discuss

00:08:12.389 --> 00:08:15.389
abandoning their struggle and leaving the valley

00:08:15.389 --> 00:08:18.149
altogether, but after witnessing one of their

00:08:18.149 --> 00:08:21.410
own homes being destroyed by fire due to Riker's

00:08:21.410 --> 00:08:24.589
men, they find a new resolve and continue the

00:08:24.589 --> 00:08:28.250
fight. Riker concludes, Sterret is primarily

00:08:28.250 --> 00:08:30.670
the one responsible for keeping their resolve.

00:08:31.500 --> 00:08:33.820
With the purpose of killing him, Riker invites

00:08:33.820 --> 00:08:36.639
Starrett into a meeting at the saloon with the

00:08:36.639 --> 00:08:39.779
idea of negotiating a settlement. Both, though,

00:08:39.799 --> 00:08:43.159
know better. Shane included, and he intervenes,

00:08:43.159 --> 00:08:45.159
getting in a fight with Starrett, and it's a

00:08:45.159 --> 00:08:48.299
drop -em -out, drag -out fight, but Shane does

00:08:48.299 --> 00:08:51.740
walk away the victor and rides into town instead.

00:08:53.049 --> 00:08:55.809
Shane kills Wilson, Riker, and Riker's brother,

00:08:55.929 --> 00:08:59.149
but is injured in the process. Shane sees Joey,

00:08:59.309 --> 00:09:02.549
who notices that Shane is bleeding. Shane bids

00:09:02.549 --> 00:09:05.529
farewell and rides out into the valley, ignoring

00:09:05.529 --> 00:09:08.990
Joey's desperate cries of Shane. Shane comes

00:09:08.990 --> 00:09:12.539
back, but Shane... does not come back. Director

00:09:12.539 --> 00:09:14.960
George Stevenson didn't initially want Alan Ladd

00:09:14.960 --> 00:09:17.220
as Shane. His first choice were actors Monka

00:09:17.220 --> 00:09:19.840
Marie Cliff and William Holden, and they were

00:09:19.840 --> 00:09:22.059
going to play the role but became unavailable,

00:09:22.220 --> 00:09:25.179
so eventually the role went to Ladd. Perhaps

00:09:25.179 --> 00:09:27.179
the reason he wasn't a first choice was due to

00:09:27.179 --> 00:09:30.279
his height. Ladd is 5 '6", 5 '7", where many

00:09:30.279 --> 00:09:33.460
of his co -stars are much taller, 6 '2", 6 '3".

00:09:33.460 --> 00:09:36.379
In order to avoid seeing the obvious height difference,

00:09:36.580 --> 00:09:38.740
he would often stand on risers, which proved

00:09:38.740 --> 00:09:41.740
to be effective because Shane became such a prominent

00:09:41.740 --> 00:09:43.740
figure within the film and within the Western

00:09:43.740 --> 00:09:46.460
genre. Although it may seem very conventional

00:09:46.460 --> 00:09:49.100
for today, there's many things Shane did that

00:09:49.100 --> 00:09:52.259
were out of the ordinary for its era, especially

00:09:52.259 --> 00:09:55.429
the sound effects. Stevens didn't want the normal

00:09:55.429 --> 00:09:57.470
bang -bang sound effects you would get in most

00:09:57.470 --> 00:10:00.330
westerns, so instead they recorded new sounds

00:10:00.330 --> 00:10:02.830
that sounded more like a cannon being fired to

00:10:02.830 --> 00:10:05.690
make it sound more visceral. Shane was well -received

00:10:05.690 --> 00:10:07.730
when it first came out, although it wasn't universal

00:10:07.730 --> 00:10:10.950
praise. Some did feel it was too slow and its

00:10:10.950 --> 00:10:13.789
solemn style became a little excessive, but there

00:10:13.789 --> 00:10:16.370
were pretty positive reviews, including that

00:10:16.370 --> 00:10:19.289
of Bosley Cawthor from the New York Times, who

00:10:19.289 --> 00:10:21.129
praised the film's understanding of the conflict

00:10:21.129 --> 00:10:23.580
between the homesteaders and the cattlemen. of

00:10:23.580 --> 00:10:26.759
that era. It also received a number of Academy

00:10:26.759 --> 00:10:29.840
Award nominations and won one. It received an

00:10:29.840 --> 00:10:32.200
award for Best Cinematography, which it won,

00:10:32.320 --> 00:10:34.419
but also was nominated for Best Picture, Best

00:10:34.419 --> 00:10:37.340
Director, Best Supporting Actor for Brandon DeWild,

00:10:37.539 --> 00:10:40.159
and Best Supporting Actor for Jack Palance, and

00:10:40.159 --> 00:10:43.340
also Best Adapted Screenplay. It eventually lost

00:10:43.340 --> 00:10:46.299
Best Picture from here to eternity. The film

00:10:46.299 --> 00:10:48.360
performed quite well at the box office as well,

00:10:48.539 --> 00:10:51.899
earning around $9 million in the US and Canada.

00:10:52.509 --> 00:10:57.210
But what do Kevin and I think? Back to us to

00:10:57.210 --> 00:11:03.450
discuss. Hey, thanks for that, Dan. Those are

00:11:03.450 --> 00:11:06.129
the facts for Shane. And now we're going to get

00:11:06.129 --> 00:11:09.909
into our thoughts and opinions on it. A rewatch

00:11:09.909 --> 00:11:12.110
after about 15 years for you and a first time

00:11:12.110 --> 00:11:15.049
watch for me. So Dan, I wanted to start off.

00:11:15.070 --> 00:11:17.929
Obviously, we can acknowledge that this is oftentimes

00:11:17.929 --> 00:11:21.649
listed amongst. the best westerns of all time

00:11:21.649 --> 00:11:24.190
it gets you know put in a lot of those best of

00:11:24.190 --> 00:11:26.830
lists top 10 top 20 whatever it might be when

00:11:26.830 --> 00:11:29.190
it when we're specifically talking about the

00:11:29.190 --> 00:11:32.809
western genre and so i'm curious i don't have

00:11:32.809 --> 00:11:34.409
no idea what your take is on the movie if you

00:11:34.409 --> 00:11:35.850
like to dislike that somewhere in the middle

00:11:35.850 --> 00:11:38.730
but as one of those westerns that has such a

00:11:38.730 --> 00:11:42.049
massive reputation and a film that's like deeply

00:11:42.049 --> 00:11:44.549
ingrained in the in the history of the genre

00:11:45.230 --> 00:11:47.350
I'm curious whether you think its reputation

00:11:47.350 --> 00:11:50.590
comes more from how well the movie works as a

00:11:50.590 --> 00:11:53.950
story and with its characters or from what it

00:11:53.950 --> 00:11:56.649
represents and what it helped establish for the

00:11:56.649 --> 00:11:59.149
genre overall or a mix of both. So what was your

00:11:59.149 --> 00:12:02.450
take on Shane? It's a good question. And I think

00:12:02.450 --> 00:12:05.529
one thing I appreciate by the way we kind of

00:12:05.529 --> 00:12:07.049
ended up doing this, which wasn't originally

00:12:07.049 --> 00:12:09.789
planned, like doing some classics, going a little

00:12:09.789 --> 00:12:12.919
ahead. doing some of the more spaghetti westerns

00:12:12.919 --> 00:12:14.860
and going back it's like we talked a lot about

00:12:14.860 --> 00:12:19.019
how there is this idea of how the spaghetti westerns

00:12:19.019 --> 00:12:23.639
in that era maybe uh made the western a bit more

00:12:23.639 --> 00:12:26.840
sophisticated maybe indicated that it we weren't

00:12:26.840 --> 00:12:29.220
we had heroes that weren't always this black

00:12:29.220 --> 00:12:31.509
hat white hat But then we mentioned, you know,

00:12:31.549 --> 00:12:33.149
that wasn't always the case. There were plenty

00:12:33.149 --> 00:12:35.490
of Westerns before the Spaghetti Westerns that

00:12:35.490 --> 00:12:38.110
maybe were a bit more complex and didn't deserve

00:12:38.110 --> 00:12:40.730
the simplification of, like, that was what they

00:12:40.730 --> 00:12:43.629
are. But then we get a movie like Shane, and

00:12:43.629 --> 00:12:46.129
I can kind of understand where that mindset comes

00:12:46.129 --> 00:12:48.769
from, because I guess in a way this is going

00:12:48.769 --> 00:12:53.090
to sound inflammatory, or like I'm degrading

00:12:53.090 --> 00:12:54.509
the movie, but it's not meant to be. This is

00:12:54.509 --> 00:12:57.549
like Baby's first Western in a lot of ways, because

00:12:57.549 --> 00:13:01.340
it is very... basic in its approach or it's very

00:13:01.340 --> 00:13:04.279
straightforward and also does make sense because

00:13:04.279 --> 00:13:06.480
most of this movie is kind of being designed

00:13:06.480 --> 00:13:09.779
to be seen through the eyes of a child so with

00:13:09.779 --> 00:13:12.700
that it is very simply you know good guy bad

00:13:12.700 --> 00:13:15.600
guy type of situation but even within that we

00:13:15.600 --> 00:13:20.580
do get a little bit of nuance at times we get

00:13:20.580 --> 00:13:24.200
you know some understanding and i do think a

00:13:24.200 --> 00:13:26.139
lot of what this did for the western that was

00:13:26.139 --> 00:13:29.759
unconventional has by by this time become conventional

00:13:29.759 --> 00:13:31.679
so just in the research some of the things that

00:13:31.679 --> 00:13:34.720
they changes that they made i do think it is

00:13:34.720 --> 00:13:37.620
an effective story and i think it's well made

00:13:37.620 --> 00:13:39.940
like and there's a lot of little things that

00:13:39.940 --> 00:13:43.259
does well that i think help establish it ahead

00:13:43.259 --> 00:13:45.120
of some other westerns like shooting on location

00:13:45.120 --> 00:13:47.259
you feel like it feels like you're in that location

00:13:47.259 --> 00:13:50.340
it's very much of improvement to those that are

00:13:50.340 --> 00:13:54.080
more on backlot it feels like there is more time

00:13:54.080 --> 00:13:56.600
and effort put within this compared to maybe

00:13:56.600 --> 00:13:58.779
a lot of the standard westerns that we're not

00:13:58.779 --> 00:14:01.240
even talking about but ones i've seen because

00:14:01.240 --> 00:14:04.659
of this retrospective that are very like generic

00:14:04.659 --> 00:14:07.799
and by the book so i think in a lot of ways compared

00:14:07.799 --> 00:14:10.299
to some of the best of the best that we've done

00:14:10.299 --> 00:14:12.960
so far some of the the greatest westerns that

00:14:12.960 --> 00:14:18.080
we've done i don't think it may come off as to

00:14:18.080 --> 00:14:20.340
their level in a lot of ways, because what does

00:14:20.340 --> 00:14:24.460
well has been surpassed or made a bit more complex.

00:14:24.519 --> 00:14:26.820
But I am still glad I rewatched it. I think there

00:14:26.820 --> 00:14:32.000
is a lot to take from it. But I do think if you

00:14:32.000 --> 00:14:35.840
went into this thinking you're seeing the top

00:14:35.840 --> 00:14:37.860
of the genre, I don't know if you'll get that,

00:14:37.940 --> 00:14:40.759
but I do think it's a great introductory Western,

00:14:40.919 --> 00:14:43.620
as I mentioned, Baby's First Western, because

00:14:43.620 --> 00:14:46.799
it is... hitting the notes of the genre rather

00:14:46.799 --> 00:14:49.700
hard easily and it almost feels like a disney

00:14:49.700 --> 00:14:52.100
movie in a way it feels like it like a classic

00:14:52.100 --> 00:14:54.360
family film but maybe with a little bit edge

00:14:54.360 --> 00:15:02.259
to it but what did you think so i i wasn't prepared

00:15:02.259 --> 00:15:05.340
on you know we for a long time i felt like we

00:15:05.340 --> 00:15:07.259
talked about a lot of movies that we were kind

00:15:07.259 --> 00:15:10.419
of lockstep with uh yeah And we agreed on most

00:15:10.419 --> 00:15:12.039
of them, even going back through like the Hitchcock

00:15:12.039 --> 00:15:14.340
retrospective, the Cary Grant retrospective.

00:15:14.539 --> 00:15:17.620
We varied on some of them here and there, like

00:15:17.620 --> 00:15:20.179
to what level we liked or disliked. But we were

00:15:20.179 --> 00:15:22.740
very much similar in a lot of those. And I felt

00:15:22.740 --> 00:15:24.139
like that kind of carried over even into this

00:15:24.139 --> 00:15:26.539
Western one. And then recently we've had a few

00:15:26.539 --> 00:15:31.159
more films that we didn't agree on. And I was

00:15:31.159 --> 00:15:32.860
very curious going into this one where it was

00:15:32.860 --> 00:15:36.620
going to land on that spectrum. And so I'm intrigued.

00:15:37.309 --> 00:15:39.990
by your statement and kind of your opening here,

00:15:40.070 --> 00:15:41.389
because I think we're probably going to have

00:15:41.389 --> 00:15:44.850
more in common with this one than not. So Shane

00:15:44.850 --> 00:15:48.429
is a movie that I can absolutely understand respecting

00:15:48.429 --> 00:15:53.889
more than loving. I can see the craftsmanship.

00:15:54.190 --> 00:15:57.870
I can see the influence. I can see the great

00:15:57.870 --> 00:16:00.549
cinematography. They did a lot with the sound

00:16:00.549 --> 00:16:03.490
design, with the gun violence to make that feel

00:16:03.490 --> 00:16:06.080
real and things like that. I do think they do

00:16:06.080 --> 00:16:10.440
the tension fairly well in Shane. And I can see

00:16:10.440 --> 00:16:13.500
why it became such an important Western based

00:16:13.500 --> 00:16:17.039
on when it came out and the impact it has on

00:16:17.039 --> 00:16:22.100
stuff that comes out afterwards. However, movies

00:16:22.100 --> 00:16:24.700
ultimately for me live and die based on whether

00:16:24.700 --> 00:16:27.940
I care about the people I'm watching. And I'm

00:16:27.940 --> 00:16:30.639
not sure Shane ever gave me characters that I

00:16:30.639 --> 00:16:33.879
really was so emotional invested in that I...

00:16:34.300 --> 00:16:37.200
cared too much about what happened to him um

00:16:37.200 --> 00:16:41.500
even joey even joey oh my god don't get me started

00:16:41.500 --> 00:16:44.980
i think that's that's one of the problems right

00:16:44.980 --> 00:16:48.700
and i guess i can go right to that but like everything

00:16:48.700 --> 00:16:50.600
you said is right like that kind of disney -esque

00:16:50.600 --> 00:16:52.340
like i'm picturing like the films that i would

00:16:52.340 --> 00:16:54.220
have got on the couch with my mom when i was

00:16:54.220 --> 00:16:56.639
like i don't know seven or eight and we would

00:16:56.639 --> 00:16:59.620
get i don't know if it was movies we had rented

00:16:59.620 --> 00:17:02.289
from the library or if it was the i'm making

00:17:02.289 --> 00:17:04.269
stuff up the abc saturday night movie or the

00:17:04.269 --> 00:17:06.730
disney primetime movie or whatever but you know

00:17:06.730 --> 00:17:11.329
it would be like heidi and uh you know like baby

00:17:11.329 --> 00:17:13.450
crockett i remember that yeah yeah all of those

00:17:13.450 --> 00:17:15.750
types of films like this is kind of what that

00:17:15.750 --> 00:17:18.529
reminds me it does obviously have a much more

00:17:18.529 --> 00:17:21.210
violent edge to it so like it wouldn't have been

00:17:21.210 --> 00:17:23.309
on the disney channel i get that but it kind

00:17:23.309 --> 00:17:25.069
of reminds me of a little bit and and you totally

00:17:25.069 --> 00:17:27.630
get the fact that in some ways they are trying

00:17:27.630 --> 00:17:30.329
to tell this story through the the child's eyes

00:17:30.329 --> 00:17:33.650
and it's supposed to be like i don't know if

00:17:33.650 --> 00:17:35.289
it's necessarily supposed to be our way in but

00:17:35.289 --> 00:17:37.190
i think it definitely is supposed to be touching

00:17:37.190 --> 00:17:41.509
on like us viewing it through the inner child

00:17:41.509 --> 00:17:45.029
that we have and like what we would have thought

00:17:45.029 --> 00:17:47.750
had we been that child in this time frame and

00:17:47.750 --> 00:17:52.009
obviously there's a lot of mythological or almost

00:17:52.009 --> 00:17:55.609
like fairy tale aspects of Shane himself and

00:17:55.609 --> 00:17:58.970
things of that nature where it does kind of pose

00:17:58.970 --> 00:18:00.609
that question, which we've seen come up a couple

00:18:00.609 --> 00:18:04.990
times here. But one issue that I do have is we're

00:18:04.990 --> 00:18:07.450
funneling all of this through this particular

00:18:07.450 --> 00:18:14.529
character in Joey. And Brandon DeWild got nominated

00:18:14.529 --> 00:18:19.289
for a supporting actor for this role. And that

00:18:19.289 --> 00:18:21.250
is about the most mind -boggling statement I've

00:18:21.250 --> 00:18:25.170
ever made in my life. I don't understand what

00:18:25.170 --> 00:18:27.470
was going on in 1953 that this was considered

00:18:27.470 --> 00:18:30.970
one of the best supporting roles in all of film

00:18:30.970 --> 00:18:36.589
that year. He drove me absolutely bananas. That's

00:18:36.589 --> 00:18:38.910
part of the problem, I think, for me, is one

00:18:38.910 --> 00:18:41.230
of the main focal points that we're funneling

00:18:41.230 --> 00:18:43.089
all of this stuff through, I wanted to throw

00:18:43.089 --> 00:18:46.769
off a cliff. Maybe not that dramatic. He is a

00:18:46.769 --> 00:18:49.890
child, and I'll give him some grace. But if I

00:18:49.890 --> 00:18:54.190
heard him yell out Shane one more time, I, I

00:18:54.190 --> 00:18:56.250
don't know what I was going to do, but I, I had

00:18:56.250 --> 00:18:59.609
bad thoughts. Um, so like, I, I really didn't

00:18:59.609 --> 00:19:02.269
care for that character and like the, the way

00:19:02.269 --> 00:19:04.529
that it was performed. I understand kind of what

00:19:04.529 --> 00:19:06.490
they were going for, but it was like nails on

00:19:06.490 --> 00:19:09.089
a chalkboard for me. So that was one of the things

00:19:09.089 --> 00:19:12.049
that kind of detracted a little bit for me, at

00:19:12.049 --> 00:19:15.670
least. Um, what was your take on joy? Cause it

00:19:15.670 --> 00:19:17.690
is the emotional entry point. He has the innocence,

00:19:17.930 --> 00:19:20.089
you know, the hero worship is all there, right?

00:19:20.150 --> 00:19:22.740
Like it's supposed to be all there. but my god

00:19:22.740 --> 00:19:24.480
was that performance irritating for me what did

00:19:24.480 --> 00:19:27.220
you think it definitely is of the time i think

00:19:27.220 --> 00:19:30.559
we've come to see much more natural child performances

00:19:30.559 --> 00:19:34.819
since then where you know thinking of like random

00:19:34.819 --> 00:19:36.759
comparison but beast of the southern wild you

00:19:36.759 --> 00:19:38.640
know where i forget the name of that actress

00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:41.519
but she was nominated for and i think that feels

00:19:41.519 --> 00:19:44.359
much more natural especially you know having

00:19:44.359 --> 00:19:47.059
a kid and like this is this kid is does not act

00:19:47.059 --> 00:19:50.359
like a normal child but it it does it to me I

00:19:50.359 --> 00:19:51.599
don't think it's a great performance either.

00:19:51.720 --> 00:19:55.160
And it's tough to be like, uh, tough on a kid

00:19:55.160 --> 00:20:00.200
acting. Yeah. But, uh, I think it was, like I

00:20:00.200 --> 00:20:05.180
said, it is a very much like the, the, uh, Disney

00:20:05.180 --> 00:20:07.359
ass version of like what a child actor, everything

00:20:07.359 --> 00:20:10.640
is so big. Everything is like, um, you know,

00:20:10.640 --> 00:20:13.960
on the precipice of being a little bit annoying.

00:20:14.180 --> 00:20:18.500
And like, uh, so he, every time they're almost

00:20:18.500 --> 00:20:23.089
like they like, um, never felt like a real person.

00:20:23.289 --> 00:20:25.630
Basically. I think ultimately it's just that

00:20:25.630 --> 00:20:27.509
you, you know what the movie was doing. It's

00:20:27.509 --> 00:20:29.690
very transparent in what it was doing. So it

00:20:29.690 --> 00:20:33.190
just, yes, he was a child, but I feel like at

00:20:33.190 --> 00:20:35.690
times maybe like he should have been a little

00:20:35.690 --> 00:20:39.690
bit. Yeah. Just a little better. So some of his

00:20:39.690 --> 00:20:42.390
lines were just terrible too. Like even that

00:20:42.390 --> 00:20:46.210
like ending where he's, it's like, he, he's not

00:20:46.210 --> 00:20:48.769
so young that he doesn't understand. Like, yeah,

00:20:48.890 --> 00:20:52.220
he's like, calling for him to come like he's

00:20:52.220 --> 00:20:54.579
like basically saying his goodbyes and then immediately

00:20:54.579 --> 00:20:57.500
calling for him to come back and then like I

00:20:57.500 --> 00:20:59.119
don't know like he was just like going all over

00:20:59.119 --> 00:21:01.160
the place I was like I get that in in like a

00:21:01.160 --> 00:21:02.819
maybe even like a younger child that really doesn't

00:21:02.819 --> 00:21:05.920
understand it but like how old do you is he supposed

00:21:05.920 --> 00:21:11.700
to be in this film I mean I would say something

00:21:11.700 --> 00:21:13.819
like that because he's not they don't have him

00:21:13.819 --> 00:21:16.000
like hunting yet or anything like that he's acting

00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:18.609
like a six -year -old though I would say he's

00:21:18.609 --> 00:21:20.470
supposed to be probably like five or six, but

00:21:20.470 --> 00:21:22.289
he probably was like nine or ten would be my

00:21:22.289 --> 00:21:24.769
guess. I think another thing that hurts it, though,

00:21:24.789 --> 00:21:29.190
is that even though the movie itself does have

00:21:29.190 --> 00:21:35.130
a lot of the heightened stuff, like the mythological

00:21:35.130 --> 00:21:37.210
stuff, but the characters don't necessarily.

00:21:37.869 --> 00:21:42.130
A lot of the characters, yes, Shane is like this.

00:21:43.430 --> 00:21:45.289
mythological character, I guess. Like we, we

00:21:45.289 --> 00:21:47.470
don't, he's mystery mysterious. We don't really

00:21:47.470 --> 00:21:49.670
know much about him. And he does like bring a

00:21:49.670 --> 00:21:52.329
lot of that type of stuff, but like a lot of

00:21:52.329 --> 00:21:55.369
the other characters are somewhat, I don't know.

00:21:55.490 --> 00:21:57.430
I didn't feel like they were as over the top.

00:21:57.490 --> 00:22:02.049
So it was almost like this kid was not only kind

00:22:02.049 --> 00:22:03.730
of over the top himself, but then he was over

00:22:03.730 --> 00:22:07.069
the top against a setting and the cinematography

00:22:07.069 --> 00:22:09.130
and the rest of the movie that doesn't feel as

00:22:09.130 --> 00:22:10.970
over the top. So it was almost like he was like

00:22:10.970 --> 00:22:16.019
in the wrong movie. I don't know. I mean, some

00:22:16.019 --> 00:22:17.859
of the characters are big, but like some of them

00:22:17.859 --> 00:22:20.240
are like our main character, Alan Ladd or not.

00:22:20.299 --> 00:22:23.920
Yeah. Alan Ladd, his, uh, plays his father. Well,

00:22:24.019 --> 00:22:27.579
no, then Alan Ladd plays Shane. I'm sorry. Van

00:22:27.579 --> 00:22:32.140
Heflin plays the father, Joe Starrett. Like I'd

00:22:32.140 --> 00:22:35.200
never found him being over the top. too much

00:22:35.200 --> 00:22:37.599
yeah i guess i don't i think joy wasn't meant

00:22:37.599 --> 00:22:39.720
to be over the top i think it just comes off

00:22:39.720 --> 00:22:43.819
that way now perhaps i i see i really like the

00:22:43.819 --> 00:22:46.700
dynamic between for me what's like a strength

00:22:46.700 --> 00:22:50.299
within this is a dynamic between joe van heflin's

00:22:50.299 --> 00:22:54.339
character marion's starrett uh the his wife by

00:22:54.339 --> 00:22:56.680
played by gene arthur and then alan like their

00:22:56.680 --> 00:22:59.640
dynamic i i thought was the strength of it uh

00:22:59.640 --> 00:23:02.369
in like how they would relate to one another

00:23:02.369 --> 00:23:04.789
i really did like van heflin who's becoming like

00:23:04.789 --> 00:23:07.410
the breakout star of this retrospective in a

00:23:07.410 --> 00:23:09.950
lot of ways uh you know like 100 years after

00:23:09.950 --> 00:23:12.170
the movies have come out but like obviously 310

00:23:12.170 --> 00:23:13.910
to yuma's a lot you know we saw him in that i

00:23:13.910 --> 00:23:16.990
thought he was really strong there here he plays

00:23:16.990 --> 00:23:19.789
a very similar role again like he's the the dad

00:23:19.789 --> 00:23:23.690
of a farm that is in trouble trying to make the

00:23:23.690 --> 00:23:26.509
best for his town where you have the uh you know

00:23:26.509 --> 00:23:28.769
the the bandits or whatever who you know were

00:23:29.420 --> 00:23:31.480
trying to take advantage of him and i think he

00:23:31.480 --> 00:23:35.099
plays that role well and with gene arthur she

00:23:35.099 --> 00:23:38.819
maybe was not given like a lot to do in the sense

00:23:38.819 --> 00:23:40.920
of like she's always worrying it's like that's

00:23:40.920 --> 00:23:43.920
her role like you worry but she's also gets moments

00:23:43.920 --> 00:23:47.019
where you can tell she's she's understanding

00:23:47.019 --> 00:23:49.099
things quicker like i think she figured out who

00:23:49.099 --> 00:23:53.180
shane was before joe did uh in the way like she

00:23:53.180 --> 00:23:55.119
would act and like he she would you just a lot

00:23:55.119 --> 00:23:56.640
of that was within the performance maybe not

00:23:56.640 --> 00:23:59.809
as much within the script and so i do feel like

00:23:59.809 --> 00:24:02.809
they all feel down to earth in a way and shane

00:24:02.809 --> 00:24:06.490
is that you know is the classic like mysterious

00:24:06.490 --> 00:24:10.670
stranger you know you clearly like influencing

00:24:10.670 --> 00:24:13.809
movies we've done already like with the man with

00:24:13.809 --> 00:24:16.829
no name trilogy but he's a bit softer i think

00:24:16.829 --> 00:24:19.109
even like as a performance like alan like he's

00:24:19.109 --> 00:24:22.730
not as harsh but i also wonder if that's you

00:24:22.730 --> 00:24:26.240
know a feature not a bug He gets soda pop, which

00:24:26.240 --> 00:24:29.339
I love. I don't know why they're backing him

00:24:29.339 --> 00:24:32.839
up for getting soda. Yeah, it's so cruel. I mean,

00:24:32.880 --> 00:24:34.960
technically, there's danger to that as well.

00:24:35.099 --> 00:24:40.839
It's not just a number on your teeth. But so

00:24:40.839 --> 00:24:43.539
I think that was the strength. I do agree, Joey

00:24:43.539 --> 00:24:48.579
was a little bit much, but I think that's more

00:24:48.579 --> 00:24:50.619
of a product of the time than it was an intention.

00:24:50.920 --> 00:24:54.190
At least that's the way I took it. Yeah, I liked

00:24:54.190 --> 00:25:00.650
the Van Heflin and Alan Ladd dynamic. I liked

00:25:00.650 --> 00:25:03.970
their interplay between each other. It wasn't

00:25:03.970 --> 00:25:06.509
huge. I mean, I understand the love triangle

00:25:06.509 --> 00:25:08.950
of Marion, and I get that dynamic, and I'm fine

00:25:08.950 --> 00:25:11.670
with that. I didn't care for her character or

00:25:11.670 --> 00:25:17.470
her performance a lot. Part of it was, I don't

00:25:17.470 --> 00:25:20.170
know. We can get into it maybe a little bit later.

00:25:20.779 --> 00:25:23.420
I didn't like her aspect of the triangle as much.

00:25:23.420 --> 00:25:26.900
If I'm breaking it down, I really was drawn a

00:25:26.900 --> 00:25:28.880
little bit more to the two men in that triangle

00:25:28.880 --> 00:25:32.799
and kind of how they were interacting. He's working

00:25:32.799 --> 00:25:35.839
for him, but then you can kind of see Joe somewhat

00:25:35.839 --> 00:25:38.980
also kind of seeing the same stuff that Joey

00:25:38.980 --> 00:25:42.359
is seeing. He is somewhat taken by the... the

00:25:42.359 --> 00:25:45.980
mystery or the mythic aspect of shane but he

00:25:45.980 --> 00:25:47.819
also sees him as somebody that can like serve

00:25:47.819 --> 00:25:49.700
a purpose and help him work and stuff like that

00:25:49.700 --> 00:25:51.559
and the kind of a at one point like are they

00:25:51.559 --> 00:25:54.759
going to be friends are they going to be just

00:25:54.759 --> 00:25:56.740
a worker co -worker type thing is it going to

00:25:56.740 --> 00:25:58.880
be we're battling because you you know we're

00:25:58.880 --> 00:26:01.359
both into the same woman so like there's a lot

00:26:01.359 --> 00:26:04.440
of different strings being pulled between those

00:26:04.440 --> 00:26:08.559
two so i did enjoy that i like i said marion

00:26:08.559 --> 00:26:10.779
wasn't my favorite part of that but that's kind

00:26:10.779 --> 00:26:15.319
of I guess I, I, I don't know. Like part of it

00:26:15.319 --> 00:26:17.660
is, you know, you mentioned like she figured

00:26:17.660 --> 00:26:19.500
out who Shane was early on and I'm like, did

00:26:19.500 --> 00:26:24.500
she, or was she just kind of crushing on him?

00:26:24.720 --> 00:26:26.839
You know what I mean? Like, was it, was it just

00:26:26.839 --> 00:26:29.339
kind of, there was like certain things she says

00:26:29.339 --> 00:26:32.619
that I think she under, I can't think of exactly,

00:26:32.740 --> 00:26:37.980
but I think she, she understood that like, the

00:26:37.980 --> 00:26:40.160
way you use his gun and like certain things that

00:26:40.160 --> 00:26:42.119
where i feel like she knows like okay this is

00:26:42.119 --> 00:26:45.519
um i know who this person is in the sense of

00:26:45.519 --> 00:26:47.259
like or at least she was a bit more cautious

00:26:47.259 --> 00:26:50.640
around him at first compared to like joe who

00:26:50.640 --> 00:26:53.339
was like you know i just thought there was too

00:26:53.339 --> 00:26:55.160
many moments that bugged me that she's doing

00:26:55.160 --> 00:26:57.740
right in front of joe and her son that are like

00:26:57.740 --> 00:27:00.200
nobody else is seeing how he how she's looking

00:27:00.200 --> 00:27:02.700
at this dude like everyone's just cool with this

00:27:02.700 --> 00:27:08.220
yeah um but yeah i did find that a little bit

00:27:08.220 --> 00:27:12.460
uh interesting but another thing that so we have

00:27:12.460 --> 00:27:14.240
two different other aspects kind of of the film

00:27:14.240 --> 00:27:17.700
right we have the rest of the homesteaders that

00:27:17.700 --> 00:27:22.420
this stare at family is kind of i don't know

00:27:22.420 --> 00:27:24.960
connected to kind of like their own little community

00:27:24.960 --> 00:27:27.920
and then obviously we have the cattle cattlemen

00:27:27.920 --> 00:27:30.819
cattle drivers whatever which is our villains

00:27:30.819 --> 00:27:32.680
so to speak in this one that are giving them

00:27:32.680 --> 00:27:35.299
you know a hard time for soda pop and all that

00:27:35.299 --> 00:27:38.839
other stuff so yeah i'm curious you know between

00:27:38.839 --> 00:27:41.619
those two groups kind of how you took those and

00:27:41.619 --> 00:27:43.740
then also kind of piggybacking on what you were

00:27:43.740 --> 00:27:46.539
saying about shane i do think it's interesting

00:27:46.539 --> 00:27:48.779
it's an interesting way they kind of paint him

00:27:48.779 --> 00:27:53.039
because in a way he is like the clint eastwood

00:27:53.039 --> 00:27:55.539
character or the john wayne character or like

00:27:55.539 --> 00:28:00.519
whatever that is but in a package that is way

00:28:00.519 --> 00:28:04.119
more similar to like the jimmy stewarts and the

00:28:04.119 --> 00:28:07.019
gary coopers and then like the the the more like

00:28:07.019 --> 00:28:09.759
like he's not this big imposing person he's like

00:28:09.759 --> 00:28:15.319
fairly i don't know regular size small like he's

00:28:15.319 --> 00:28:18.579
not like technically in real life he's like five

00:28:18.579 --> 00:28:20.880
he's like tom cruise height but they try to make

00:28:20.880 --> 00:28:23.819
him look like normal so he's not this big bulky

00:28:23.819 --> 00:28:26.420
like imposing person so and he and he doesn't

00:28:26.420 --> 00:28:28.880
come across you know he's much more subdued in

00:28:28.880 --> 00:28:31.339
like his demeanor and like his look but then

00:28:31.339 --> 00:28:33.309
he's it's it's an interesting way because instead

00:28:33.309 --> 00:28:35.289
of just having like the clint eastwood john wayne

00:28:35.289 --> 00:28:39.369
like big bigger than life person you still have

00:28:39.369 --> 00:28:41.710
that role being played because he is this like

00:28:41.710 --> 00:28:45.650
can do everything is is great at like the the

00:28:45.650 --> 00:28:47.710
guns and all the other stuff but then he's in

00:28:47.710 --> 00:28:49.630
this package of like a jimmy stewart type package

00:28:49.630 --> 00:28:51.630
or a gary cooper type package so i thought that

00:28:51.630 --> 00:28:53.869
was kind of an interesting choice do you do you

00:28:53.869 --> 00:28:56.490
feel like he worked in that and kind of how that

00:28:56.490 --> 00:28:58.069
all played out and kind of get your thoughts

00:28:58.069 --> 00:29:00.589
on on the homesteaders and the cattlemen yeah

00:29:00.589 --> 00:29:03.089
i actually really like that dynamic because just

00:29:03.089 --> 00:29:06.250
the historical context of it as well and i mentioned

00:29:06.250 --> 00:29:08.069
how like you know this is very white hat black

00:29:08.069 --> 00:29:11.869
hat but we do get a little bit of you know a

00:29:11.869 --> 00:29:14.170
little bit better understanding of like what

00:29:14.170 --> 00:29:18.829
uh you know chris the rufus the reicher like

00:29:18.829 --> 00:29:23.069
what his mindset is because we get some understanding

00:29:23.069 --> 00:29:26.960
that like we get that one scene where he's explaining

00:29:26.960 --> 00:29:29.039
why he's so against the homesteaders because

00:29:29.039 --> 00:29:31.140
he feels that they're taking advantage of what

00:29:31.140 --> 00:29:34.220
he helped settle. And then I thought, what was

00:29:34.220 --> 00:29:36.059
good about that was Joe had a good comeback.

00:29:36.140 --> 00:29:37.680
It's like, well, you weren't here first either.

00:29:38.980 --> 00:29:43.359
So it's interesting because that very much, in

00:29:43.359 --> 00:29:46.099
a lot of ways, one, that did happen. You had

00:29:46.099 --> 00:29:47.819
a lot of conflict there, and then there was a

00:29:47.819 --> 00:29:51.059
lot of mirroring of today and similar conflicts

00:29:51.059 --> 00:29:54.470
that exist even to this day. So I did like that

00:29:54.470 --> 00:29:56.789
dynamic in the sense of it made sense. And I

00:29:56.789 --> 00:29:59.009
did feel like there was real stakes there because

00:29:59.009 --> 00:30:05.130
they have no marshal to go to. There's really

00:30:05.130 --> 00:30:08.130
nothing stopping them except for just hope that

00:30:08.130 --> 00:30:10.930
they can stand together and the odds keep stacking

00:30:10.930 --> 00:30:15.190
against them. And I thought Shane worked well

00:30:15.190 --> 00:30:18.369
as just that speak softly and shoot well or whatever

00:30:18.369 --> 00:30:21.710
instead of carrying a big stick. And I did really

00:30:21.710 --> 00:30:24.690
like Jack Palance as, like, the opposite side

00:30:24.690 --> 00:30:28.410
of that. And actually watching this made me realize,

00:30:28.509 --> 00:30:30.690
like, he would have been a great Joker. Like,

00:30:30.690 --> 00:30:33.349
I hate, like, doing fan casting and stuff like

00:30:33.349 --> 00:30:36.250
that. But I'm like, he just has that smile, that,

00:30:36.289 --> 00:30:39.529
like, evil presence to him. Like, he was, I think,

00:30:39.529 --> 00:30:41.430
a really good balance. And so I thought they

00:30:41.430 --> 00:30:43.130
played off of each other. If anything, I wish

00:30:43.130 --> 00:30:45.250
we got a little bit more there. I agree. And

00:30:45.250 --> 00:30:47.789
it is, like, relatively slow -paced. I didn't

00:30:47.789 --> 00:30:50.069
know that was the purpose of it. that was kind

00:30:50.069 --> 00:30:53.009
of the you know to bring all the violence to

00:30:53.009 --> 00:30:55.609
the end of it but i like that dynamic between

00:30:55.609 --> 00:30:58.690
the the homesteaders and the settlers and everything

00:30:58.690 --> 00:31:01.369
like that like the the way that played out and

00:31:01.369 --> 00:31:03.410
you know the performances i think worked well

00:31:03.410 --> 00:31:05.849
there what did you think of the fact that like

00:31:05.849 --> 00:31:08.670
the homesteader or excuse me the the cattlemen

00:31:08.670 --> 00:31:11.049
are basically like they represent the old west

00:31:11.049 --> 00:31:13.009
right like if we're just talking about like the

00:31:13.009 --> 00:31:17.809
american old west like they're the white man,

00:31:17.950 --> 00:31:19.329
American old West. I don't know how many qualifiers

00:31:19.329 --> 00:31:21.049
I can put on this, but obviously, you know, there

00:31:21.049 --> 00:31:23.049
was, there was people here before us, but, um,

00:31:23.210 --> 00:31:24.509
and stuff like that, but they're like the old

00:31:24.509 --> 00:31:26.470
West. And then we have the homesteaders who are

00:31:26.470 --> 00:31:27.750
coming in and they're kind of like representing

00:31:27.750 --> 00:31:30.809
the, a newer version of that, right? Like they're,

00:31:30.809 --> 00:31:33.190
I don't know if it's new West necessarily, but

00:31:33.190 --> 00:31:35.890
like a change in that. And I, it's interesting

00:31:35.890 --> 00:31:40.730
that Shane is put in a place where he's essentially

00:31:40.730 --> 00:31:45.569
fighting to build. help build this world that

00:31:45.569 --> 00:31:49.589
the homesteaders are trying to build which is

00:31:49.589 --> 00:31:51.730
a world that has no place for him because he

00:31:51.730 --> 00:31:55.670
is part of the old west yeah so it's like it's

00:31:55.670 --> 00:31:58.430
an interesting dynamic that he's put in and we

00:31:58.430 --> 00:32:00.950
don't get he's not a man for a lot of words right

00:32:00.950 --> 00:32:02.609
like a lot of times he's like the quiet person

00:32:02.609 --> 00:32:03.930
in the background you don't really know what

00:32:03.930 --> 00:32:06.430
his motivations are and what he's doing but it

00:32:06.430 --> 00:32:09.109
does set him up on like a very interesting like

00:32:09.109 --> 00:32:11.730
there's a lot of layers to this because he is

00:32:11.730 --> 00:32:15.970
definitely trying to help people who are somewhat

00:32:15.970 --> 00:32:18.890
not they're not eliminating the like the need

00:32:18.890 --> 00:32:21.250
for existence of the cattlemen and the ranchers

00:32:21.250 --> 00:32:23.369
and all that others or the you know cattle drivers

00:32:23.369 --> 00:32:25.470
and stuff like that but it's definitely like

00:32:25.470 --> 00:32:30.849
a move to this other form of society that would

00:32:30.849 --> 00:32:32.549
really have no place for him so what did you

00:32:32.549 --> 00:32:35.710
kind of make of that yeah and there's that interesting

00:32:35.710 --> 00:32:37.930
conversation that they have where he talks where

00:32:37.930 --> 00:32:41.490
joe talks about like How they're going to basically

00:32:41.490 --> 00:32:43.390
do the factory farms in a way where they're going

00:32:43.390 --> 00:32:45.289
to fatten up the cows rather than having them

00:32:45.289 --> 00:32:48.190
range. And the impact, like, obviously that was

00:32:48.190 --> 00:32:50.269
easy. I mean, foresight, because obviously this

00:32:50.269 --> 00:32:53.230
takes place in the future. I think Shane has

00:32:53.230 --> 00:32:55.450
that great line where he's like, you know, your

00:32:55.450 --> 00:32:57.650
days are over, cattlemen. And he's like, well,

00:32:57.789 --> 00:33:00.950
so are yours, gunslinger, and probably butchering

00:33:00.950 --> 00:33:03.390
it. But then he says, the difference is I know

00:33:03.390 --> 00:33:06.349
it. So, like, he has that realization that, like.

00:33:06.920 --> 00:33:10.579
The world's changing. He's not going to. And

00:33:10.579 --> 00:33:12.740
I think that is kind of very much a representation

00:33:12.740 --> 00:33:15.759
of what this movie is. It's the transition. It's

00:33:15.759 --> 00:33:18.180
the settlement of the death of the Wild West

00:33:18.180 --> 00:33:20.700
in a lot of ways. And what killed the Wild West

00:33:20.700 --> 00:33:24.460
wasn't gunslingers. It was barbed wire. So it

00:33:24.460 --> 00:33:30.720
was being able to keep farms isolated and have

00:33:30.720 --> 00:33:35.619
more. Instead of going the range, having cattle

00:33:35.619 --> 00:33:39.259
kind of stay within a specific section so you

00:33:39.259 --> 00:33:41.839
didn't have to have them miles on end. And that

00:33:41.839 --> 00:33:44.880
really helped create more settlements and things

00:33:44.880 --> 00:33:47.599
like that. this is that transition like this

00:33:47.599 --> 00:33:49.259
is kind of showing that element of it which i

00:33:49.259 --> 00:33:51.220
think is really important that it's shot on location

00:33:51.220 --> 00:33:54.059
because you get that sense it's and it's much

00:33:54.059 --> 00:33:56.680
more effective when you're seeing that done and

00:33:56.680 --> 00:33:58.880
you have the you know it's in jackson home wyoming

00:33:58.880 --> 00:34:01.859
so you have like the gorgeous mountains in the

00:34:01.859 --> 00:34:04.220
background so you feel like you're there so i

00:34:04.220 --> 00:34:06.259
thought i thought like that dynamic was really

00:34:06.259 --> 00:34:08.840
the strength of the film yeah it was one of those

00:34:08.840 --> 00:34:11.920
that i almost wish i could have seen in like

00:34:14.739 --> 00:34:17.579
4k yeah color well did you watch this in color

00:34:17.579 --> 00:34:18.719
or in black and white because it's available

00:34:18.719 --> 00:34:20.940
in both i think i watched it in black and white

00:34:20.940 --> 00:34:22.960
if i'm remembering correctly yeah so i watched

00:34:22.960 --> 00:34:26.420
a lot of westerns this week yeah i watched it

00:34:26.420 --> 00:34:28.099
in color the first time i did watch it in color

00:34:28.099 --> 00:34:30.219
i'm sorry i did watch it in color i was just

00:34:30.219 --> 00:34:31.820
meaning like i wish i could have seen it in even

00:34:31.820 --> 00:34:34.639
like more vibrant like yeah yeah color because

00:34:34.639 --> 00:34:36.539
i think there was a lot there i think that's

00:34:36.539 --> 00:34:38.079
what some of the stuff they did well like going

00:34:38.079 --> 00:34:40.260
back to the beginning like the actual art of

00:34:40.260 --> 00:34:43.590
the the filmmaking is is very top -notch like

00:34:43.590 --> 00:34:46.230
the visuals are good i did appreciate i'm not

00:34:46.230 --> 00:34:47.969
usually someone that cares about sound at all

00:34:47.969 --> 00:34:50.269
but i do think they like do some stuff with some

00:34:50.269 --> 00:34:51.710
of the shots and stuff like that to make them

00:34:51.710 --> 00:34:54.769
feel a little bit more real like and and things

00:34:54.769 --> 00:34:57.789
of that nature it's also interesting because

00:34:57.789 --> 00:35:02.469
we keep getting throughout this western retrospective

00:35:02.469 --> 00:35:06.130
we keep getting stories that are centered around

00:35:06.130 --> 00:35:10.150
community right like in a lot of different ways

00:35:10.150 --> 00:35:13.199
whether it's a community that's under fire that's

00:35:13.199 --> 00:35:15.980
asking for help whether it's a person asking

00:35:15.980 --> 00:35:18.940
for help from the community whether it's this

00:35:18.940 --> 00:35:21.199
one where it's almost two competing communities

00:35:21.199 --> 00:35:23.440
obviously one's a little bit more migrant but

00:35:23.440 --> 00:35:28.019
like but we keep coming back to various versions

00:35:28.019 --> 00:35:33.119
of what it meant to be a part of something bigger

00:35:33.119 --> 00:35:37.179
in the west which I've spent a lot of time talking

00:35:37.179 --> 00:35:40.880
about the west in college and studying it and

00:35:41.389 --> 00:35:43.389
teaching about it and stuff like that like that's

00:35:43.389 --> 00:35:44.949
when you were talking about the barbed wire second

00:35:44.949 --> 00:35:46.329
class like oh that's like straight from one of

00:35:46.329 --> 00:35:49.329
my lesson plans um from from back in the day

00:35:49.329 --> 00:35:51.329
but you know what i think from wasn't a lesson

00:35:51.329 --> 00:35:54.210
plan was from a it was from a comic book of course

00:35:54.210 --> 00:35:58.090
oh nice there was a it was a lone ranger comic

00:35:58.090 --> 00:36:01.590
by mark russell and bob q they did it was actually

00:36:01.590 --> 00:36:03.550
had a very similar plot to this about you know

00:36:04.090 --> 00:36:06.929
But they introduced barbed wire, and it was a

00:36:06.929 --> 00:36:09.570
big center point of it. I mean, I knew it beforehand,

00:36:09.769 --> 00:36:11.809
but that's what kept it fresh. I think a lot

00:36:11.809 --> 00:36:13.909
of people don't, though. I think a lot of people

00:36:13.909 --> 00:36:16.510
don't realize that it's not some big conflict

00:36:16.510 --> 00:36:19.289
or something like that. It's something as simple

00:36:19.289 --> 00:36:21.690
as just a new technology for them at the time.

00:36:21.789 --> 00:36:26.230
But one thing that I don't think it's thought

00:36:26.230 --> 00:36:28.610
of when people think about the West so much,

00:36:28.710 --> 00:36:32.909
we think about the cattle drives, right? We had

00:36:32.909 --> 00:36:35.599
a movie about that. We think about the gunfights

00:36:35.599 --> 00:36:39.059
and the saloons and we think about cowboys and

00:36:39.059 --> 00:36:42.059
Indians and we think about all of this, you know,

00:36:42.079 --> 00:36:44.840
whether, you know, even like Oregon Trail or

00:36:44.840 --> 00:36:46.920
prospecting or different stuff. It's all of this

00:36:46.920 --> 00:36:51.219
like journey things. And I don't think people

00:36:51.219 --> 00:36:57.639
think as much about what it meant to build or

00:36:57.639 --> 00:37:01.960
be a part of or find a community of people in

00:37:01.960 --> 00:37:05.559
the West. and yeah i don't know why we don't

00:37:05.559 --> 00:37:07.119
think about that more because it's all over these

00:37:07.119 --> 00:37:09.380
movies but it's not something that i expected

00:37:09.380 --> 00:37:11.880
when we went into this right like yes i knew

00:37:11.880 --> 00:37:13.619
magnificent seven had to do with a town that

00:37:13.619 --> 00:37:15.719
you know was under fire and stuff like that and

00:37:15.719 --> 00:37:16.980
they were asking for help and i knew a couple

00:37:16.980 --> 00:37:19.119
of these like loose plot things but i was not

00:37:19.119 --> 00:37:22.860
expecting like the overarching like theme in

00:37:22.860 --> 00:37:24.920
again and again and again like even in the spaghetti

00:37:24.920 --> 00:37:26.980
westerns right like we're still dealing with

00:37:26.980 --> 00:37:29.920
communities or towns or places that are trying

00:37:29.920 --> 00:37:35.889
to like build a better tomorrow or or stay a

00:37:35.889 --> 00:37:39.309
unit or develop or different things like and

00:37:39.309 --> 00:37:41.489
we've seen it again and again and again and it's

00:37:41.489 --> 00:37:43.150
interesting because it's all over these movies

00:37:43.150 --> 00:37:44.590
but i feel like it's not something that gets

00:37:44.590 --> 00:37:46.849
thought of much when people just generally like

00:37:46.849 --> 00:37:49.510
if you just go on the street and say like tell

00:37:49.510 --> 00:37:50.710
me the first thing that comes your mind when

00:37:50.710 --> 00:37:52.929
you think about the old west or the wild west

00:37:52.929 --> 00:37:55.630
like they're not going to come up with that so

00:37:55.630 --> 00:37:58.030
i do appreciate that we're getting so much of

00:37:58.030 --> 00:38:00.949
that here and a lot of times with painted and

00:38:01.280 --> 00:38:05.579
slightly different shades i think yeah it's it's

00:38:05.579 --> 00:38:08.760
showing you know that'll question how the west

00:38:08.760 --> 00:38:11.719
was won and we're seeing that it was won and

00:38:11.719 --> 00:38:13.860
lost in a lot of different ways but a lot of

00:38:13.860 --> 00:38:18.699
it was you know through greed through individuals

00:38:18.699 --> 00:38:22.320
either kind of taking advantage of a situation

00:38:22.320 --> 00:38:25.710
where there was a bit of lawlessness And here,

00:38:25.869 --> 00:38:28.369
obviously, getting that conflict between the

00:38:28.369 --> 00:38:32.989
homesteaders and the ranchers and just the back

00:38:32.989 --> 00:38:35.690
and forth that would happen, like using cattle

00:38:35.690 --> 00:38:39.449
to just plow through their fields and things

00:38:39.449 --> 00:38:42.110
like that, just to try to see who would own that

00:38:42.110 --> 00:38:46.619
land and just how... In order for states to become

00:38:46.619 --> 00:38:49.539
states, even going back to the man who shot Liberty

00:38:49.539 --> 00:38:52.880
Valance, I forget what state they were in, but

00:38:52.880 --> 00:38:54.940
that becoming a state was a big part of that

00:38:54.940 --> 00:38:59.280
plot. Here, you have similar ideas. In the background,

00:38:59.440 --> 00:39:01.860
there's a lot of the... laws and politicking

00:39:01.860 --> 00:39:04.480
that exists existing in washington at the time

00:39:04.480 --> 00:39:07.119
that then we see like on the ground and how it

00:39:07.119 --> 00:39:08.460
impacts here because like you know obviously

00:39:08.460 --> 00:39:10.980
the homestead act is a big part of like why this

00:39:10.980 --> 00:39:13.840
even exists so and it's not like you know they're

00:39:13.840 --> 00:39:15.880
bringing that up but you're you're being able

00:39:15.880 --> 00:39:18.360
to if you have that historical context it's i

00:39:18.360 --> 00:39:20.199
think it's a little bit more interesting because

00:39:20.199 --> 00:39:22.000
you kind of have an understanding of where this

00:39:22.000 --> 00:39:24.239
is all coming from but without it i think you

00:39:24.239 --> 00:39:27.199
at least see or at least get a good understanding

00:39:27.199 --> 00:39:32.559
of why it's happening like what everyone's motivation

00:39:32.559 --> 00:39:35.800
is it's very clear and i think everyone feels

00:39:35.800 --> 00:39:38.079
like they're the hero of the story and even though

00:39:38.079 --> 00:39:41.179
like i well jack balance is just pretty straight

00:39:41.179 --> 00:39:44.800
evil but i do think at least rufus reicher like

00:39:44.800 --> 00:39:47.340
he has at least like a point like i don't know

00:39:47.340 --> 00:39:50.639
his point maybe is a bit jaded and he's going

00:39:50.639 --> 00:39:53.079
about the wrong way but i guess like at least

00:39:53.079 --> 00:39:55.219
at least you understand why he's doing it it

00:39:55.219 --> 00:39:57.199
doesn't feel like it's out of left field i did

00:39:57.199 --> 00:39:58.860
want to get your take on a couple other characters

00:39:58.860 --> 00:40:00.699
as well that we just haven't mentioned and kind

00:40:00.699 --> 00:40:03.139
of as we get closer to wrapping this up so uh

00:40:03.139 --> 00:40:06.079
we have chris calloways uh is one of the characters

00:40:06.079 --> 00:40:09.239
that kind of switches sides in a way or maybe

00:40:09.239 --> 00:40:11.619
not switches sides but he has a different interactions

00:40:11.619 --> 00:40:13.159
with shane at different points in the movie and

00:40:13.159 --> 00:40:15.320
i wasn't curious what your take was on him i

00:40:15.320 --> 00:40:18.340
was curious what your take was on the store owner

00:40:18.800 --> 00:40:21.820
the Sam Grafton character and then going into

00:40:21.820 --> 00:40:24.420
some of the actual homesteaders, like two of

00:40:24.420 --> 00:40:25.900
them that obviously stood out to me would be

00:40:25.900 --> 00:40:28.739
like Swede, um, who is what they called one of

00:40:28.739 --> 00:40:31.780
the individuals and then Stonewall who, you know,

00:40:31.780 --> 00:40:34.039
nicknames for a couple of these guys. So, or,

00:40:34.099 --> 00:40:35.599
or any of the other homesteaders. So what was

00:40:35.599 --> 00:40:37.320
your take on, on some of those characters? And

00:40:37.320 --> 00:40:39.239
then do you think they, how much did they add

00:40:39.239 --> 00:40:41.480
to the movie or did you spend your time with

00:40:41.480 --> 00:40:43.829
them? I did find it interesting that, like, you

00:40:43.829 --> 00:40:45.329
know, of course, like, the Northerners are always

00:40:45.329 --> 00:40:47.210
the bad guys. The Yankees are the bad guys. It's

00:40:47.210 --> 00:40:50.010
always the Rebels from some reason are, like,

00:40:50.050 --> 00:40:53.030
so interesting. You know, Ben Johnson as Chris

00:40:53.030 --> 00:40:55.489
Calloway, I thought that was fine. He didn't

00:40:55.489 --> 00:40:57.269
necessarily stand out. I did, you know, another

00:40:57.269 --> 00:40:59.730
person we've done, he's been in some of the movies,

00:40:59.889 --> 00:41:02.949
Edgar Buchanan. He was, of course, one of our

00:41:02.949 --> 00:41:05.469
favorite actors from, was it Penny St. Erinade?

00:41:05.530 --> 00:41:12.130
Was he in that? I liked him. His voice was one

00:41:12.130 --> 00:41:14.190
of those things where it's like, his voice is

00:41:14.190 --> 00:41:16.670
super familiar. Where do I know him from? And

00:41:16.670 --> 00:41:18.150
then obviously being able to figure that out.

00:41:18.710 --> 00:41:21.349
Those stood up for me. I did like Stonewall in

00:41:21.349 --> 00:41:25.110
the sense of him having a bit of a temper. You

00:41:25.110 --> 00:41:27.610
knew that clearly he's going to be the catalyst

00:41:27.610 --> 00:41:30.329
for bad things to happen. But I do feel like

00:41:30.329 --> 00:41:33.750
everyone had a personality. Even the little bit

00:41:33.750 --> 00:41:36.329
that you got from them, you understood. Who they

00:41:36.329 --> 00:41:39.269
are. So you were invested in their plight. Even

00:41:39.269 --> 00:41:42.289
if you didn't get as much time for it. You wanted

00:41:42.289 --> 00:41:45.309
to see this community succeed. So I thought it

00:41:45.309 --> 00:41:47.510
was effective there. I could have taken about.

00:41:48.369 --> 00:41:52.369
15 to 20 % more time. With like Stonewall. And

00:41:52.369 --> 00:41:55.050
Swede and Calloway. And Grafton. And then you

00:41:55.050 --> 00:41:56.989
could have taken that away from Joey. And I would

00:41:56.989 --> 00:41:59.949
have been cool with that. And also I will say

00:41:59.949 --> 00:42:02.969
Stonewall. That dude had a loyal dog. Some of

00:42:02.969 --> 00:42:06.130
the best dog acting. i have seen in a movie like

00:42:06.130 --> 00:42:09.250
yeah so i thought you know like the you know

00:42:09.250 --> 00:42:12.510
as he's getting buried the dog it's like me like

00:42:12.510 --> 00:42:15.869
i think joey should have learned a few things

00:42:15.869 --> 00:42:19.250
from that dog about being able being able to

00:42:19.250 --> 00:42:22.269
sell emotion because that dog was amazing so

00:42:22.269 --> 00:42:25.150
so i'm curious dan kind of as we wrap this one

00:42:25.150 --> 00:42:28.150
up any other takeaways that you or comments yeah

00:42:28.150 --> 00:42:29.650
i did have one thing about what did you think

00:42:29.650 --> 00:42:31.829
because i think one we mentioned action and we

00:42:31.829 --> 00:42:33.989
had to shoot outs but we actually got a lot of

00:42:33.989 --> 00:42:37.369
like drag them out punching type you know we

00:42:37.369 --> 00:42:39.269
had the bar fight and we had a fight between

00:42:39.269 --> 00:42:43.210
joe and shane what what did you think about those

00:42:43.210 --> 00:42:46.090
fights in general and did you in the sense of

00:42:46.090 --> 00:42:49.070
the length of them like like what was your reaction

00:42:49.070 --> 00:42:50.690
to them i guess to kind of keep it open -ended

00:42:50.690 --> 00:42:55.039
i mean i thought it was decently done for the

00:42:55.039 --> 00:42:57.780
most part. I think it was easy to follow and

00:42:57.780 --> 00:43:01.579
the choreography was good. I was a little surprised

00:43:01.579 --> 00:43:07.099
just because I didn't think they had placed enough

00:43:07.099 --> 00:43:10.440
breadcrumbs for the intensity of the Joe and

00:43:10.440 --> 00:43:15.280
Shane fight. I get that you don't want the guy

00:43:15.280 --> 00:43:16.699
to go and that you're trying to take his place

00:43:16.699 --> 00:43:18.480
or whatever, but it never seemed that they had

00:43:18.480 --> 00:43:21.300
this super bad blood. Yes, there was kind of

00:43:21.300 --> 00:43:23.300
this love triangle, but it never was touched

00:43:23.300 --> 00:43:25.900
on. to a point where i felt like either of them

00:43:25.900 --> 00:43:28.980
were mad at the other one or like yeah it was

00:43:28.980 --> 00:43:30.760
like they acknowledged that this was a thing

00:43:30.760 --> 00:43:32.219
but they also acknowledged that they were never

00:43:32.219 --> 00:43:35.599
going to do anything about it so like i don't

00:43:35.599 --> 00:43:37.860
know it was a little intense and it went on a

00:43:37.860 --> 00:43:39.840
while and i was like is nobody going to stop

00:43:39.840 --> 00:43:41.280
these two from killing each other because i don't

00:43:41.280 --> 00:43:42.760
think that's going to work in anybody's interest

00:43:42.760 --> 00:43:45.340
like yeah well i didn't i didn't take it as them

00:43:45.340 --> 00:43:48.139
mad at each other i guess i took it more so joe

00:43:48.909 --> 00:43:52.070
was like he was destined to like go and get himself

00:43:52.070 --> 00:43:55.190
killed basically and Shane didn't want that to

00:43:55.190 --> 00:43:56.949
happen like he was definitely he didn't want

00:43:56.949 --> 00:44:00.489
to see it was basically Joe stubbornness against

00:44:00.489 --> 00:44:02.730
yeah but I mean maybe there was a bit some personal

00:44:02.730 --> 00:44:04.670
stuff in there too no I just mean there was a

00:44:04.670 --> 00:44:06.570
couple points where it's like if you're not actually

00:44:06.570 --> 00:44:08.530
mad with someone can you really do a couple of

00:44:08.530 --> 00:44:10.349
the shots that they're doing to each other I

00:44:10.349 --> 00:44:12.750
mean he hits him with his gun like that's like

00:44:12.750 --> 00:44:15.889
that's that I think that's what I like that yeah

00:44:15.889 --> 00:44:17.809
joey did two seconds later joey's fine with it

00:44:17.809 --> 00:44:21.070
but he did not like that in that moment it was

00:44:21.070 --> 00:44:22.989
almost an unhealthy obsession this kid had with

00:44:22.989 --> 00:44:26.130
shane yeah it was it was a little bit but i i

00:44:26.130 --> 00:44:28.489
guess i but i guess it gets it because it's like

00:44:28.489 --> 00:44:30.269
this is like the it's like a real life you know

00:44:30.269 --> 00:44:32.690
he doesn't have comic book superheroes he is

00:44:32.690 --> 00:44:35.050
shane that's his iron man what did you think

00:44:35.050 --> 00:44:37.090
about the other action sequence and the other

00:44:37.090 --> 00:44:40.190
um kind of what with what happened with stonewall

00:44:40.190 --> 00:44:43.159
in that sequence I thought that worked well.

00:44:43.320 --> 00:44:46.619
I was just surprised with the level of violence,

00:44:46.719 --> 00:44:48.619
mostly with the Joe and Shane fight, like you

00:44:48.619 --> 00:44:51.000
mentioned. That was a bit shocking. And the final

00:44:51.000 --> 00:44:52.460
shootout I thought was effective. I think they

00:44:52.460 --> 00:44:56.820
did a good job of building up the Jack Palance,

00:44:56.840 --> 00:44:58.800
Jack Wilson character, where he did feel like

00:44:58.800 --> 00:45:01.559
a legitimate threat in their showdown. If anything,

00:45:01.739 --> 00:45:03.880
it maybe even got on for a little bit longer,

00:45:04.019 --> 00:45:08.230
but I get it. It did what it needed to do. I

00:45:08.230 --> 00:45:09.989
think the, you know, the real emotional action

00:45:09.989 --> 00:45:12.389
was obviously that, that fight that happened.

00:45:12.449 --> 00:45:13.909
That's where the explosion of violence really

00:45:13.909 --> 00:45:16.150
occurred. But that's, I was just surprised with

00:45:16.150 --> 00:45:19.210
how long it went on. And then like, God, this

00:45:19.210 --> 00:45:21.429
is, this is pretty, you know, cause like I mentioned

00:45:21.429 --> 00:45:23.130
up to that point, it was like baby's first Western.

00:45:23.210 --> 00:45:25.070
And then it's like, Oh no, it is not. Cause this

00:45:25.070 --> 00:45:27.329
is, I mean, I think kids would be fine with compared

00:45:27.329 --> 00:45:29.530
to most stuff today, but I thought it was. So

00:45:29.530 --> 00:45:31.889
one question for you as a parent, Dan. Yeah.

00:45:32.369 --> 00:45:35.349
You, you just have this like drag them out, you

00:45:35.349 --> 00:45:38.219
know, intense fight. With this Shane character

00:45:38.219 --> 00:45:40.940
who both of you are basically trying to prevent

00:45:40.940 --> 00:45:42.579
the other person from like going somewhere where

00:45:42.579 --> 00:45:44.380
you, you're pretty sure like somebody is going

00:45:44.380 --> 00:45:48.579
to end up dead and that all ends. And, and you

00:45:48.579 --> 00:45:50.099
know, one of you is going to go off to the town

00:45:50.099 --> 00:45:55.079
to do that. Is there any chance on any planet

00:45:55.079 --> 00:45:58.960
that you allow your seven, six year old child

00:45:58.960 --> 00:46:05.260
to then run for like miles? after this guy and

00:46:05.260 --> 00:46:08.360
go into the town which is the danger spot yeah

00:46:08.360 --> 00:46:10.679
i would say probably not but i don't know if

00:46:10.679 --> 00:46:14.000
he was even in the you know in the it was even

00:46:14.000 --> 00:46:17.219
clearly had multiple concussions at that point

00:46:17.219 --> 00:46:20.260
so uh this kid just runs and runs and at one

00:46:20.260 --> 00:46:22.800
point he's keeping up with shane which is i don't

00:46:22.800 --> 00:46:26.820
know like I didn't think that scene went on pretty

00:46:26.820 --> 00:46:28.380
long. I'm like, okay, they're going to show him.

00:46:28.480 --> 00:46:31.460
I'm like, is this happening in real time? I'm

00:46:31.460 --> 00:46:36.360
like, this could go. But anyways, yeah. I mean,

00:46:36.380 --> 00:46:38.199
it was Old West. Kids had to learn some way.

00:46:38.699 --> 00:46:40.920
I guess. Just duck under everything and watch

00:46:40.920 --> 00:46:43.519
the shootout. And then he had to be there to

00:46:43.519 --> 00:46:45.599
warn him about the one guy coming after him.

00:46:45.679 --> 00:46:47.900
He saved his life. So there you go. That's where

00:46:47.900 --> 00:46:51.960
he made his keep by saving Shane. for some reason

00:46:51.960 --> 00:46:55.860
i couldn't get my out of my head like this is

00:46:55.860 --> 00:46:57.400
going to be a weird connection but like every

00:46:57.400 --> 00:47:00.360
time they're visiting the saloon and like the

00:47:00.360 --> 00:47:02.280
quote -unquote bullies are always there right

00:47:02.280 --> 00:47:05.980
like when when shane is going into the saloon

00:47:05.980 --> 00:47:08.599
it kept giving me visions of marty mcfly going

00:47:08.599 --> 00:47:12.079
into the diner and like you know you're going

00:47:12.079 --> 00:47:13.619
in there you know they're going to be there and

00:47:13.619 --> 00:47:14.679
you know at some point they're going to call

00:47:14.679 --> 00:47:20.849
you a chicken i didn't wonder though like it

00:47:20.849 --> 00:47:24.090
seemed like the the guy who owned the suite or

00:47:24.090 --> 00:47:25.710
whatever like that was like the one person that

00:47:25.710 --> 00:47:27.690
rufus would listen to and always made me wonder

00:47:27.690 --> 00:47:32.170
like why yeah you know like what what it wasn't

00:47:32.170 --> 00:47:34.690
that he had that like he he was like the de facto

00:47:34.690 --> 00:47:37.650
law in a way and i was just i never feel like

00:47:37.650 --> 00:47:39.510
i fully understood it was simply just because

00:47:39.510 --> 00:47:41.510
like that's he was a guy getting supplies but

00:47:41.510 --> 00:47:43.449
i don't know well at one point they even have

00:47:43.449 --> 00:47:45.130
a conversation where they're like we can't do

00:47:45.130 --> 00:47:47.070
that because we're gonna you know make the shop

00:47:47.070 --> 00:47:49.760
owner mad yeah what is the shop owner got on

00:47:49.760 --> 00:47:52.920
you guys is he is he really like he was a he

00:47:52.920 --> 00:47:54.900
was a badass back in his day too so they just

00:47:54.900 --> 00:47:56.599
don't want to i didn't i didn't know why it was

00:47:56.599 --> 00:48:00.119
the shop keeper but yeah so a final thoughts

00:48:00.119 --> 00:48:02.780
on shane dan yeah i definitely liked it i definitely

00:48:02.780 --> 00:48:04.960
glad i watched it as i mentioned i think there

00:48:04.960 --> 00:48:08.940
are elements that certainly i don't say don't

00:48:08.940 --> 00:48:11.599
hold up like we mentioned there you know uh it

00:48:11.599 --> 00:48:15.059
if If you're listening at this point, I doubt

00:48:15.059 --> 00:48:16.800
this is a first Western. But if you're looking

00:48:16.800 --> 00:48:20.260
to get kids into Westerns or watch it, I do think

00:48:20.260 --> 00:48:23.360
it's a good entry point into the genre. But I

00:48:23.360 --> 00:48:26.460
don't necessarily think it holds a candle to

00:48:26.460 --> 00:48:30.239
maybe some of the films we've done so far in

00:48:30.239 --> 00:48:32.280
this more classic section as well as some other

00:48:32.280 --> 00:48:35.619
films. But I do think it... I understand where

00:48:35.619 --> 00:48:37.300
the love of it comes from because I think there's

00:48:37.300 --> 00:48:40.809
a lot to appreciate with it. Yeah, I think there's

00:48:40.809 --> 00:48:42.389
a lot to appreciate. I think the filmmaking is

00:48:42.389 --> 00:48:43.889
good. I think there's elements of it that are

00:48:43.889 --> 00:48:47.690
good. Like I said, I liked a lot of the people

00:48:47.690 --> 00:48:49.570
involved. I just wished I would have gotten more

00:48:49.570 --> 00:48:51.510
time with them, I guess. And like the Joey part

00:48:51.510 --> 00:48:56.929
really drove me bananas. But I think I get like...

00:48:57.769 --> 00:49:00.590
the influence that it has and the respect that

00:49:00.590 --> 00:49:02.869
it gets for like doing what it did at the time

00:49:02.869 --> 00:49:05.070
i would say that this would be one of those that

00:49:05.070 --> 00:49:06.750
i feel like anybody that's putting this in like

00:49:06.750 --> 00:49:09.090
the top five westerns of all time is is giving

00:49:09.090 --> 00:49:14.550
more credence to first versus best and i think

00:49:14.550 --> 00:49:16.730
films that we've covered have have taken some

00:49:16.730 --> 00:49:19.329
of these themes and done them certainly yeah

00:49:19.329 --> 00:49:21.449
i think influence yeah i think certainly influence

00:49:21.449 --> 00:49:25.489
and uh like you said like the changing of the

00:49:25.489 --> 00:49:28.710
guard like in the sense of like it doing things

00:49:28.710 --> 00:49:31.230
differently for the time certainly maybe why

00:49:31.230 --> 00:49:34.030
you would consider it that way but yeah i don't

00:49:34.030 --> 00:49:38.130
know but interesting but we're going into a new

00:49:38.130 --> 00:49:43.329
section next week that is going to change things

00:49:43.329 --> 00:49:45.789
up a little bit because we're going to end in

00:49:45.789 --> 00:49:48.730
talking about you know going back to westerns

00:49:48.730 --> 00:49:51.050
we're going to be entering our revisionist western

00:49:51.050 --> 00:49:54.190
section, so a bunch of westerns here. And I guess

00:49:54.190 --> 00:49:56.550
I don't, what people consider a revisionist western

00:49:56.550 --> 00:49:59.869
seems to differ, but these were all ones that

00:49:59.869 --> 00:50:01.610
I saw on multiple lists that were considered

00:50:01.610 --> 00:50:03.909
revisionist westerns, so people say that it isn't

00:50:03.909 --> 00:50:06.289
one. I mean, a lot of these I haven't seen, so

00:50:06.289 --> 00:50:09.590
I don't know for sure. But next week is a first

00:50:09.590 --> 00:50:12.010
-time watch for me. I think it is for you as

00:50:12.010 --> 00:50:15.150
well, but it's the Oxbow incident from 1943.

00:50:16.969 --> 00:50:18.949
Curious, Kevin, if you have any background with

00:50:18.949 --> 00:50:22.000
that at all. I know. I believe Henry Fonda's

00:50:22.000 --> 00:50:25.559
in it. And that is all I know. I also am going

00:50:25.559 --> 00:50:28.599
to just put my stupidity right out there. For

00:50:28.599 --> 00:50:30.880
my entire life, I have not known what they meant

00:50:30.880 --> 00:50:34.559
by revisionist Western. I know what the word

00:50:34.559 --> 00:50:39.400
revisionist means. But I don't know. I feel like

00:50:39.400 --> 00:50:40.659
some of them that we've already watched could

00:50:40.659 --> 00:50:43.239
have fit in that. Me too. I'm not going to lie.

00:50:43.800 --> 00:50:46.000
I don't know where the line is that you draw.

00:50:46.960 --> 00:50:49.840
i know i obviously in just to kind of well i

00:50:49.840 --> 00:50:52.300
gotta put this list it's on letterboxd but i

00:50:52.300 --> 00:50:54.079
gotta put it on facebook so everyone can see

00:50:54.079 --> 00:50:56.559
the entire list but what will be included in

00:50:56.559 --> 00:50:59.400
this block as well uh bush cassidy and the sundance

00:50:59.400 --> 00:51:03.059
kid uh the wild bunch which is something i have

00:51:03.059 --> 00:51:04.860
not watched yet so i'm glad to give that a shot

00:51:04.860 --> 00:51:09.519
uh we're gonna go back to the world of Clint

00:51:09.519 --> 00:51:12.119
Eastwood with the outlaw, Josie Wales, which

00:51:12.119 --> 00:51:13.199
I'm glad we're doing because that originally

00:51:13.199 --> 00:51:15.340
wasn't part of it. But I know that's really well

00:51:15.340 --> 00:51:17.739
regarded by a lot of people. Then one of the

00:51:17.739 --> 00:51:20.219
most recent films we're going to do. which is

00:51:20.219 --> 00:51:22.940
The Harder They Fall. That was from 2021. I think

00:51:22.940 --> 00:51:25.619
that was a Netflix movie. And then ending with

00:51:25.619 --> 00:51:27.800
what people consider like the revisionist of

00:51:27.800 --> 00:51:29.780
the most revisionist Westerns. Again, going back

00:51:29.780 --> 00:51:32.599
to Clint Eastwood with Unforgiven, which was

00:51:32.599 --> 00:51:34.460
originally going to be the last film we did in

00:51:34.460 --> 00:51:36.679
its retrospective. But that is not the case anymore

00:51:36.679 --> 00:51:38.840
because there's many, many others after that.

00:51:39.199 --> 00:51:41.199
But I'm looking forward to this block because

00:51:41.199 --> 00:51:42.820
it's going to, you know, it's one we're spanning.

00:51:42.940 --> 00:51:46.019
So we're going from 1953 all the way to 2021.

00:51:46.380 --> 00:51:49.739
So that's a long period of time. So that's going

00:51:49.739 --> 00:51:51.119
to be fun. How many of those six have you seen,

00:51:51.139 --> 00:51:55.480
Dan? I have seen Push to Cassidy and The Harder

00:51:55.480 --> 00:51:57.559
They Fall and Unforgiven. The rest I have not

00:51:57.559 --> 00:52:02.440
seen. I have only seen Unforgiven. I will know

00:52:02.440 --> 00:52:04.320
what a revisionist Western is by the time we

00:52:04.320 --> 00:52:07.219
watch these six films. If you've seen Unforgiven,

00:52:07.239 --> 00:52:10.519
you should at least have some idea. I saw Unforgiven,

00:52:10.559 --> 00:52:12.940
again, like 15 years ago. So I'm looking forward

00:52:12.940 --> 00:52:16.099
to watching that one again. Absolutely. So if

00:52:16.099 --> 00:52:17.960
you've been enjoying our Western retrospective,

00:52:18.269 --> 00:52:20.889
Feel free to jump on the social medias and give

00:52:20.889 --> 00:52:22.710
us some comments. You can search Dan out at The

00:52:22.710 --> 00:52:25.409
Comic Concierge, myself at Optimist Solo, or

00:52:25.409 --> 00:52:27.289
you can search the show out Cinema Geeks or the

00:52:27.289 --> 00:52:29.590
Cinema Geek Movie Podcast. We're on Facebook

00:52:29.590 --> 00:52:31.769
and all the different things. So that's where

00:52:31.769 --> 00:52:33.690
we've been focusing most of our attention. So

00:52:33.690 --> 00:52:35.849
that's probably the easiest way to get in touch

00:52:35.849 --> 00:52:37.909
with us and leave comments or feedback as we

00:52:37.909 --> 00:52:40.750
continue to make our way through this Western

00:52:40.750 --> 00:52:44.070
retrospective. But that does it for this episode.

00:52:44.170 --> 00:52:45.889
So tune in next time for another chance to listen

00:52:45.889 --> 00:52:55.739
to more of The Cinema Geeks. But then we get

00:52:55.739 --> 00:52:58.260
a movie like Shane, and I think that's very much

00:52:58.260 --> 00:53:02.539
where that mindset comes from, because... Jesus

00:53:02.539 --> 00:53:07.619
Christ. Sorry, my son just scared the living

00:53:07.619 --> 00:53:10.500
hell out of me. What do you need, buddy? I just

00:53:10.500 --> 00:53:14.059
didn't know. Mommy's not home. Mommy's home.

00:53:14.079 --> 00:53:20.980
Go tell Mommy, okay? oh man if this was a video

00:53:20.980 --> 00:53:22.760
podcast that would have gone viral because like

00:53:22.760 --> 00:53:26.139
like he came behind me he's like dad like whispered

00:53:26.139 --> 00:53:29.420
in my ear like he was the kid from ring or whatever

00:53:29.420 --> 00:53:32.139
it was like oh my god that's our reason we got

00:53:32.139 --> 00:53:35.139
to go to video soon um anyways i don't even know

00:53:35.139 --> 00:53:39.360
where all right let me but um okay sorry i have

00:53:39.360 --> 00:53:41.480
to edit that my apologies or keep it in as a

00:53:41.480 --> 00:53:46.000
blooper at the end because that's right um all

00:53:46.000 --> 00:53:46.219
right