We are not bankrupt and we are going to go to America and they're going to fundraise the money needed
and they sent five of their holiest rabbis. One of them suffering from cancer,
one of them on a wheelchair, one of them missed this flight and had to come late.
Nune of Your Business, Oshii. None of your business, Michael.
It's the None of Your Business podcast, hosted by Michael Oshii.
All right, Oshii. Let's welcome everybody back to our next episode of the None of Your Business
podcast. I'm excited. I'm eager because we have Jay Walden who's going to be joining us today.
And one of the reasons why I'm excited is because I love the art of an argument or the debate.
And Jay brings a whole new side of arguing when he's a little bit less sensitive than I am.
And I hope to experience some of that today. This is, of course, sponsored by none other than
PrimeSource. And we ask all of our listeners to please like, follow, and subscribe. It's very
meaningful to us also because of the algorithms that happen in these systems. I think we're on
15 different platforms. And it just helps us out when everyone just goes in and likes and follows
and et cetera. Look, I just came back from an amazing, amazing wedding of my daughters in Israel.
I have to save that for our next episode because we have a co-host with us, Jay, that we have so
much to get into, especially what's going on in the world in Israel, army, religion. There's so
much to talk about. I'm really, really excited. Yeah. My understanding that Jay has a lot to
offer on this topic. I don't know Jay as well as you do. We've spoken a few times and he seems like
a great guy. And I've heard him speak before and was in circles together with him. And it seems like
he's intelligent. He has a lot to offer. And that's what we look for here. We're looking for people
that can advance the conversations, that could enhance the conversations, and that we can learn
something from. I could tell you that Jay fights the fight. I've experienced this. He is one of the
partners of personal health care. They're an amazing operation made up of a few good men that are
operating skillfully the skilled nursing home industry. And they fight for what they believe
in. They're a people person company. And that's, my background of Jay is that we are friends,
we're family friends, we're couple friends. We're just, we love the banter and the debate,
just like you and I do all the time. And I'm excited for what it has to offer. I'm enthusiastic of
what is going to bring out and what we're going to learn from it. Okay. I love it. Let's do it.
Okay. So we'll start with the lechai regardless. Yes, always lechai.
Lighting our candle and giving thanks and praises to God for bringing us to this moment
in our journey of continued growth. And just want to say, right here, just so you know,
you're very cheap on the amounts that you poured. I'm not sure why. I was just being lazy.
Yeah. Okay. You can finish yours. I'm going to tap it off a little bit. Are you going to tap me off
too? Yes. You're considerate. I'm a generous person. Sometimes. Jay, may I? Yes. Thank you, sir. The
honors. Okay. Excellent. Guys, this week, I was at an event that was created by the grand rabbis of
Israel. And as soon as I left my event, Jay and I had a little bit of an argument and it went on for a
couple of minutes and I'm like, Jay, you're making a couple of good points. However, I don't really
necessarily agree with you. Let's have it out in front of lights and cameras and mics. So,
well, first tell us what this event was. We're meant to talk about. I just want to start with
the fact. Facts are that in Israel, very recently, the high courts decided to cut funding for over
50,000 students and effectively take away over a hundred million US dollars of funding to these
students. Interesting. So, I was not even aware that there was a time that the government was
funding anything for the Yeshevas, for the schools. I didn't even know that. I don't think there was
a time that they weren't. I think since the agreement was from the beginning of the state of
Israel that the study of Torah is just as equally as important as the fighting of war. And it's
been funded ever since, from my understanding. Okay, that's very strange. Because here in America,
it's not how it works. Here's not how it works. The government subsidizes schools. They give
grants and they give the same amounts to everybody. They don't give anything to private schools. I
think they get a little bit for bussing and they get a little bit here, a little bit there. But are
you talking about the private schools in Israel? Are you talking about like, is there a public
school concept in Israel? It's all schools. That's the way it's looked upon. So, there's no private
schools in Israel? I believe there are some private schools, but this is government funding for all
schools. Just like in Israel, everyone gets health insurance. Same concept. And they fund the entirety
of all the expenses for the school? They are funding at least most of the expenses of the school,
and they decided that they want the students that are over 18 at least to go to the army. And
their argument was that they want the bottom 20. And their point was, you could just give us,
we're not going to argue with you and say that we need all 100% of these types of students. But if
you're not going to give us the bottom, then we're not going to allow the funding completely. And
they argued and they lost and they decided that they're going to preach, we are not bankrupt,
and we are going to go to America and they're going to fundraise the money needed. And they sent
five of their holiest rabbis, one of them suffering from cancer, one of them on a wheelchair,
one of them missed this flight and had to come late. These are people in their 80s and 90s who
risked their lives to come here. And kudos to them, in my opinion, that they made the trip to come
here to stand up for what they believe in. That's number one. Can we all agree upon that?
Agreed. I agree with you as well. I just want you to know that I'm still very shady and gray as
to what's really going on with the money, the whole situation. I'm quite interested.
You need to know for the sake of this conversation, there was money that they were giving at one
point. They're no longer giving that money. The state of Israel is no longer funding that amount
that we're funding until now. And who are these people that are taking a stand and saying, we
don't need you, we'll do it ourselves? So Jay and I here have a history of arguing. We love the art
of argument. And I am very sensitive and he is not sensitive at all. Correct. So when he walks
into the room and your stomach is big, he'll ask you what month you're in. Whereas I may be a little
more sensitive to that. So we started arguing about the point and I said, listen, they're here to do
a good thing and they're supporting the continuing learning for these students and Jay just had it.
No, well, you get into it. Well, I'll tell you, I don't think we actually even had an argument.
You posted because here and there you have a tendency of posting a picture of yourself at this
fundraiser with all these rabbis and you made a nice positive comment with it about, wow,
it's amazing what they're doing. And so my natural response to you was, you're obviously there to
give money to them, right? You're not just there to post status. So means you agree with it? Are
you giving money to them? And I guess on your way back, you called me and you, you, of course,
yeah, you want to give money there. So my only question was to you, what, what, what is, so is
this money going instead of other money? What, where does this place in the order of priority?
That's a question every time someone does a fundraiser, you can ask that question every time
a shul does a fundraiser and they say, okay, Walden family 5000 and Greenfield family 5000.
I had a problem years ago with this challenge and I always said it's not nice. It's pompous.
It's egotistical for someone to say how much they're giving and they stand up proudly as a 10,000.
You know, there are shuls at the Hamptons that raise in one Shabbos over a million dollars.
I'm saying like we're doing millions of dollars that get raised and they do this and what I ended
up finding out was what I used to think was generally not nice. I actually am a big advocate
of now, which is inspiring others to give. So yes, I went not because I had a million dollars to be
one of a hundred people and I don't think it was a matter of that. I think they needed thousands
of people to all contribute. I went because I believed in the cause that these rabbis are spending
their time and energy to come here out of respect to them. If they're asking for it,
I'm going to answer and I'm going to give something and I'm going to be there. And of course,
I was there to cover it because it was fascinating to me and I was invited by my rabbi, Rabbi Berger,
who I chaperoned and it was a great experience. I like that. But again, for context, just so
we understand each other, Israel funding cut over a hundred million dollars, funding needed.
Right? They're not going to say the students are going to stop studying and they're going to go to
the army because their belief is that every single student needs the opportunity to learn. So what's
wrong with that? But I just listened to you and very well articulated. I understand a little bit
better right now and I think this is a beautiful story. What exactly is the problem with?
Yeah. So for purposes of this, I'm going to make one statement that I think is factual. So let's
say they came here for argument sake and they're asking for a hundred million dollars. If they
receive a hundred million dollars, that's being taken away from others, other charities. I don't
even agree. Okay. So let's let's look at one second. We can make a point. It is being taken away from
others. It'll be justified. Maybe it's not. You can say that every day. But by giving money,
this kind of money to one thing, you have less to give to the other thing. That's by default.
I think so. But let's say Michael doesn't agree. So let's show that argument for a second. Let's
put that aside. There's enough money for everyone. So hypothetically, let's go with that it's not
taking away for everyone for now. My question is like this. So therefore, obviously, their age and
their health condition, it talked to you that the fact that they put themselves in danger
to come here to ask for this number, a drastic number, et cetera, and it's important to them.
I'm not so I'll go on the assumption that we all agree that Torah is important. But
how much is this amount of money really needed? Is it why are they why are you so convinced and
so sure that the proper thing is that all these amount of people should be sitting and learning?
Because Rabbi Akiva took 40 years to figure himself out, which means that every student there
counts. That's their argument. Their argument is, and this is our argument, I guess, is that every
single student counts. Don't dictate to me which student gets the opportunity to study Torah and
protect the physical army with our spiritual army, essentially, and tell us, oh, this one, he doesn't
need it. Don't don't govern me what needs to happen in terms of me running the religion, which
we've been doing for hundreds, you know, of thousands of years in general, in terms of
understanding that a person has the opportunity to study Torah and really grow and change his life.
So this money is going to be a stipend for these individuals that are learning, they use it to
live. Is that what this money is for? I'm not 100 percent sure. I know the money is used to fund them.
Yes, to fund them. They're living. Yeah, it's a call. It's a basic expense. So they can remain.
And I'm going to say, I mean, I'm not sure which expenses or what it goes. No, but he's right.
Almost, he's right. So that they can remain in Kolo and therefore, as long as they're under the
jurisdiction of this Kolo, now they're exempt from the army because they're in this school.
Now, if you're not getting the funding from them, then you're not in that school. Now you have to
go to the army. Correct. So this, I don't know, how is this different than like in Lakewood,
like the big schools, they're raising money so they can stay in Kolo and they can continue to
learn. Why is this any different? I don't think it's different at all. I think it's a very good
point. I don't think it's the same exact thing. They're coming here and people feel that sometimes,
you know, poor people in our disrobing is more important or in this case, because it's going
to save them from the army, which is that, which is that. I think what maybe what I'm hearing is
people are upset that the Israeli government toward Jewish sort of themselves is taking that money
away and they are not appreciating the other side here. They're not appreciating the people
that are learning. They don't think it's important enough that they're dialing back that money.
And I think that hurts a little bit more. Is that like, well, I think that's obvious because I think
that's a fundamental argument that's been going on in Israel for many years is where there's
there's demonstrations and there's a constant argument that it goes back as long as I can remember
that people are always demonstrating against the charade that are exempt. Why are you guys exempt
because you are sitting and doing, you know, what you call studying, etc. And we're sending our kids
to the front lines. So that has been an ongoing argument, which I think is prevalent. And I
think everyone agrees with my question to Michael, which my question to Michael was is
what if it's coming to this, or maybe even and forget even Israel and you want to go on
an issue on your point and Lakewood is why there I'll phrase it by saying is there's been in the
past couple of years, I believe a very strong push from a few people, a few business people
to increase the stipends in Lakewood, right. And there's a whole event they had one recently,
one a few Sundays ago in Philly, and they rent out the whole Wells Fargo Center. And the point of
that from my understanding, I haven't been there. But the point of that entire celebration, let's
call it is that I think they call it a dear Torah is we want to respect the Torah. We want to respect
the people that are learning Torah, which I think is is actually it's different than what I've heard
before. But it's it sounds amazing. It sounds like a great thing. Don't you let let's take the world
that we live in as a perfect example, which I think is always a good illustration.
If you want to become a doctor or a lawyer or or anything in this, right. So you work hard,
you study hard to get into the better schools that are going to potentially give you a better
education that will then potentially give you a better percentage of getting that better job
somewhere else. Ultimately, you have to do well, you have to prove yourself well, and only the elite
people in their fields end up becoming more successful, right. I and people you'll hear
people say I have the best attorney in this and I have the best doctor, the best accountant,
because what makes them the best, because they've earned that respect, whether it was, you know,
in throughout their life. If we treat it, and I'm not saying necessarily to do the same exact thing,
but the problem that I have is that people that work hard and are giving their time and energy
and effort for their wife and kids are treated worse, in my opinion, than the fallback option.
If you don't want to go to work, if you're lazy, if you're not interested or in providing for your
family, all you have to do in Lakewood Society and in this is say, oh, I'm in learning, I'm learning.
And suddenly now it's on the entire world, the rest of the world to put together funds to enable
you. There, I don't know the percentages of the people that are really learning or not, but if we,
why isn't there a system in place that awards the people that are learning and learning properly
and being able to contribute and therefore coming, taking a percentage of them and saying is you earned
this position, you earned this ability to continue learning it. And you know what, the bottom X%
of it, you, unfortunately, you tried it, it's great, you can, you should definitely continue
learning at night and in the mornings and whatever you want, but you have to go get a job. Why are
we as a site, it's the same thing. And if you think about it in the medical school, or if you
think in any other thing, right, they're all, they're going to do their interviews and they're
going to look at applications and you want to get into Harvard, you have to come from a higher
caliber. They're not, they're accepting a tiny, you know, percentage of the people of the applications
of a year that come into Harvard. And you're very passionate about this. And I have to tell you,
I'm resonating with what you're saying. I never even thought about this. And as you're speaking,
I'm thinking to myself, how many people are out there actually taking advantage of the system?
How many people are right now in COLA, let's call it. And they're not really that interested in
learning. It's not really a very thing, but it's an easier type of lifestyle for them. And they're
sort of getting away with it. And they're just, they're just winging it for as long as they can.
I'm sure there's a percentage of people that are like that. I don't know how much, I don't know if
it's 30%, 10%. But we can all agree that there is no system in place to weed it out, right? And there's
no regulations around this. It's right now as easy as I want to learn, I'm going to go to one of the
COLA's and expect, you know, by the way, they don't get a lot of money, these guys. I don't, I
find it hard to believe that people are using this forum to make a better life for themselves,
because they're getting very little money. They're not living in luxury. It's very difficult, very,
very difficult to have this type of lifestyle. But doesn't mean that there shouldn't still be some
type of accountability over this. There should be some type of oversight as to where this money is
going. Because let's face it, there isn't endless amounts of money. And the money should be spent
wisely. I think this is what big government's problem always is, is that they don't allocate
the funds appropriately, and they waste money. There's so much waste going on. We should get
into the government argument, big government, little big government, little government, or
a lot of line is when you privatize something, it's more successful, it's more efficient,
it's more efficient. Right now, it seems like this whole thing is more sort of public. It's
I don't know who's running it, who makes these decisions. Are there a couple of these very,
very wealthy individuals that are backing certain rabbis and together they're making decisions for
everybody? Like who's actually steering the ship? Is there somebody? Is there a person? Is there a
group of people? Is there an organization? Like what's, who's at the helm here? I mean, before
you go on the broadcast, I will just say that's a very good question. There might be people out
of that afterwards that hear this and they'll say, yes, there are. I don't believe that there are
people that are doing that. And for example, it'll be the outside. I'm right here. No, but I don't
believe it. I'll give you the answer. Okay. So before you give me the answer, I want to give you
one quick story that happened to me a couple of weeks ago. A friend of mine's son, you know,
what's up to me from Israel that he's, he just got married. He's in Kolo in Israel. And he's like,
hey, I'm raising money from my Kolo. Oh, you got it. It's the, you would love it. You, you got to
give me money. This is the best, the most chilled out Kolo. You know, we come, you know, it starts
late in the morning. Every Thursday we have this massive kid-ish. Huh? I mean, it sounds like a
cool. Yeah, I do love that stuff. It sounds like a great play. I should contribute because you have
meaning there's a, there's a school in Muncie that, that, you know, for example, you know,
I don't want to mention names, but that was, you know, open for many, many years. Some wealthy guy
had a son in law that was what he considered a learned guy. Maybe he is, I don't know him.
He bought the school, right? He bought the school because it for his, for his son in law.
So anybody in the lake with the word, wherever that is that wants to have a business today,
oh, they, they open up a school. I'm a rushy shoe. You want to become a barber today. You need a
certification. Let alone a lawyer open up a school, take 400 kids and my responsibility. No
problem. And then federal bear, then fundraise. Yeah, fundraise and then, and then do all this.
Why? And lastly, and your point you made it before, which is a very good point or she is that
they don't make that much money. That's a great point. You know what I'll say is,
let's put in a system in place that only the best of the best get out of it and then let's pay them
better. Let's pay them better. Why should a Rebbe make 40, 50, $60,000? If they go through a rigorous
system and they know that there's a few school, the few Colos that are putting it, people that are
good learners, you're not, not so bad. Go through the Colo system. Good people meaning the people
that are actually there nine in the morning, they're there until five in the afternoon straight,
they're learning the entire time. They actually care about it. They're genuine about it. You mean
those kind of people. Honestly, I'm not, I'm not an educator, but what I would say is let there be
in every big city or even multiple in the city similar to colleges. I want to go into education.
All right. So I'll go and in Lakewood to the big Lakewood, call it Lakewood, Yashiva. And over there,
there I'm going to be part of their teaching, you know, a program. And I'm going to take tests
how to become a good teacher, which is going to include obviously learning, but also how to deal
with kids, how to deal with, you know, people getting on my nerves, et cetera. So that when I
know, and that there's a 10th grade rabbi job opening up in Lakewood or in Muncie, there's going
to be a lot of applicants applying for that, similar to a lawyer that wants to get into a,
you know, into a high, you know, prestigious firm. And they're going to vet them out and they're
going to deal with the schools. And ultimately, that should be a starting salary of $150,000.
This guy, we're giving, we're giving so much money to these people, but everybody's opening
schools. And that's what I was saying before is that all this money is going to be taken away
from other places. If you had a centralized system, if you had where only the best people
that are being successful in what they're going for, you know, have a separate school for Sophress
and a separate one for Mila and a separate one for Shkita and only the best of the best are coming
out and we'll pay these people more. So you're questioning this $107,000, $140,000, I don't know
what the million, million dollars that they're here to raise. You're actually wondering, is all
that money actually necessary? I don't think it's necessary. Where's the money going? And we have a
bigger problem. In general, how are we as a Jewish nation? How are we going to monitoring this?
It seems almost like it's very frivolous. It hasn't been regulated for a long time. We took
things for granted. Maybe it's time to actually look at this a little more carefully. Let's
scrutinize this. Let's pay them more. Let's actually pick them up. They're not just, they don't
deserve to live sometimes and squalor these people. Sometimes they literally have no money. They can't,
it's so disrespectful. They should live just like us, if not better. They're serving God in
a better way than we are technically. So, but not everybody is up for this. Not every single person
has the right to fit into that bill. And we should be a little more careful. So what you're kind of
questioning is where's the money going? How are we spending it? You know, right now, I compared
to Michael to big government because that's what they do. They just tax its unlimited money.
They don't really care. They don't have to work for the money. So they spend it. They spend it so
quickly and endlessly. And it's such a waste. But the minute you start actually, you know,
putting people like here, you privatize it, there's a profit to be turned. Suddenly, they put systems,
they put rules, they put regulations, and there's order. It's no longer chaos. Let me weigh into
this. Starting with saying, I completely agree with what you ended with, which is to be paid based
on what you're worth on things that you go through in education. In fact, we spoke about this a while
ago that there are certain schools that are paying more for the teachers and the rabbi,
because they're qualified and they're, you know, they're educators, they're real educators,
to go through the system. I agree with you guys on that. But on everything else, I completely
disagree. Like, we have to go back to the ABCs and to the fundamentals of why this is on our heads,
what this represents, who we are as a people, how we started, and where we are today. So first of
all, let's back up guys and realize that the state of Israel is a state of Jewish people. And the
Jewish people started off with people that are learning and traveling. And of course, money
is necessary and business is important. But there's an understanding that there's a value
to learning Torah. I'm not saying you disagree, but you're creating certain standards of
create of learning the Torah. And I want to answer this with answering your other question.
Michael, can I please become the rabbi for your child? And with this, can I, can I be,
would you be comfortable with me being a rabbi? I imagine not. Because I'm going to ask, I'm not
qualified. I'm going to ask the Lord saying is not every single person should be out there,
learn and pay and get paid and tapping into that find when it's being now used because they decided
to buy I want to be an accountant that I'm trying, I'm trying, I don't pass any tests. I don't
be I fail the CPA course. No company wants to hire me. But I'm paper. I'm still every day going
to thing and I'm trying to become an accountant that I'm relying on you to pay me. I can't
actually disagree with you guys. Okay. And I'm going back into it. I'm going to explain to you
why. Because when you decide to lead a color life, it's not a luxury life. Everyone who's in the
color life is suffering financially to some capacity. Some people are not having luxury.
It just wanted easy. They don't need luxury. They don't need fans of things, but they don't want
to work guys. They don't want to do anything. And they're happy with that lifestyle. It's irrelevant.
And you're and we're condoning them because all we're enabling get a lot of waste. Right. You
asked the question earlier, who's taking charge? Who's leading this? Guys, there are leaders.
They're called God all had doors, right? So which is the leaders of our generation. Now,
I can't tell you which leader is more qualified than the next, but I could tell you that when a
minion of them, when 10 of them get together and they decide what's good for their people,
just like the head of a whole L decides who to accept. And the onus is on that coal L when Jay
got that call to fundraise for that coal in Israel, he'd be smart to give money to that call and not
any other coal that he's involved with because here he has a Roche coal L ahead of the call that
he can rely upon. You know what? It's so nice that they're giving kiddish to inspire them to come
back and learn more. That's a beautiful thing. So my point is the Torah learning does not require
anything other than being Jewish. I'm Jewish. I decide to lead a life of anxiety from a financial
standpoint, but the word and the meaning of Torah is meaningful for me, whether it's meaningful for
five minutes a day, whether it's meaningful for five hours a day, I choose this lifestyle that's
given to me that is actually, it's I'm protected. I'm Jewish. This is part of our nation. This is our
club. This is our world. I know that people have my back because it's the whole idea of
Yisachar's vullen. We're totally forgetting about that, which means that I'm paying for someone and
I'm getting some of his credit and he's getting some money from me. That entire concept is what
we're really talking about here. That's the fundamental. Michael, you're putting a blanket
over the real issue here. We all reconceptually that there is this concept of some people are
working and some people are learning and we're even willing to agree with you. And I don't know
if this is what you said, but I'll say it. I think that people that are learning are better than us.
I think they're the real people that are holding up this world. True. What we're saying is that
these are bottom, these 10 people that came, they're coming here for a broad idea. We need money.
Absolutely. We need to keep this. We need money. That's all that. That's what we agree with. That's
fine. What we are kind of zoning in on is a little bit more granularly. We need $107 million.
Because we want to show the government something. We want to show the government something.
Exactly. But it's not that we want to produce the best people, not produce the best people,
because it's not of our business. That's my point. It's to give the ability for these people to learn
as opposed to going to the army where we know there's going to be issues with their lifestyle.
It's going to change. It's not going to lend them the opportunity to continue learning if they want
to as much as it would if they were sitting and learning. It's the fundamental argument here that
you guys are not getting in my opinion, which is how much do you value one word of Torah being
word by that person that decides that he wants to learn? Who's governing it? The Roj Kohl.
Who's governing this whole five leaders who came to America? Who's overseeing it? All the
rabbinical leaders. And ultimately, I just want to say, you cannot compare Lakewood Kohl to Israel
Kohl for the army, because this is an army issue. This is a fundamental issue. It's not just the
Kohl issue. But regardless, look, maybe there's a little merit to what you're saying. And maybe
it's not exactly the same. Okay. In your case, can you make that it's not the same? I agree. But I
think what we were talking about, Jay, and it sounds like you and I are agreeing on this, is that just
in general, when you're talking about the people that are going out of 1920s all to get married,
I'm going to Kohl. And they do it for 10, 15, 20 years sometimes, look for a long time. There's no
accountability. There needs to be accountability. And you're not doing them a favor. It's actually
not meant for them possibly. Maybe it's not even meant for them. Maybe they could have done better.
They'll be happier in life. They'll raise better kids. They'll have better outcomes if they actually
went a different. And then just accept it. Hands down. Because somebody says I want, because a
lot of them are not doing it for the right reason, right? And I'm completely disagreeing. And I think
it's time to move on from this topic. We could. But I'm going to say that the Khabitzkheim, for
example, maybe I'm wrong on the person was also a shoemaker. And there were many examples of the
people in it. And the times have changed now a lot where people could just have a fallback option.
I'm in Kohl. And what I said before is, so therefore, there are people that are working 12,
13 hour days that are trying to put food on the table. And they're not that successful, unfortunately.
And they are the ones who are being in a way. I'm not going to say I'll say use the word punished
as an example, because there's no one of these agreements. There's none of these organizations
like you have Khaas, they live and all these other ones that are there before Pesach to give money
to our bay and to their teachers. Right. But what about all the people that are actually trying hard
and the hardworking people? And I think that ultimately, and we could move on, but maybe
offer off the record, we could continue our argument about this, because I do think that
you're making a big mistake and that ultimately, if there's a quantity versus quality is where your
argument is. And I say it's quality Torah versus quantum, not in Torah. That's my argument. Your
argument is quality, quantity versus quality. When it comes to anyone who wants to learn Torah.
Yes, because ultimately, they're risking the quality of their life. They're freezing milk.
They're not saving their sending their kids to camp. They're not going on vacation.
They're making those decisions because they want to get away from the army.
No, because they want to learn Torah. Are there a few that are making that excuse? Yeah, but it's
on the head of the Colo to have checks and balances. That's my argument. That makes sense.
All right. That makes sense. I hear it a little bit, but I disagree. So how's the podcast business
doing? I will tell you, Jay, having someone like you as a co-host with us makes it very, very interesting.
You know, we've been helping define how our podcast is going. You've listened to the
first few. How do you think it's going? I love it. I love it. Well, I'll tell you honestly,
I love it because I know both of you. Michael, I know you obviously a lot longer.
I know that you have a lot of passion for whatever you do. A lot of times you jump into things and
just because of the moment and seeing you following you through this and sometimes
feeling red in the face when I'm looking at your status just being embarrassed for you.
But now seeing that the other side where this, you know, is actually has been so far really awesome.
And remembering, I actually even met Oshe once after you told me the idea. I met him at
Abar Mitzvah and I said, oh, I heard you're doing this with Michael. He's no chance, Jay.
No chance. He said to me, zero chance. I'm not doing it. I said, what do you mean? Michael told me
you're doing it. He says, did I say I'm doing it? I said, no, Michael, I am not doing it. So I
enjoy watching that that's coming to fruition and seeing, you know, that you're actually enjoying it.
But I'll tell you that when we strategized to have a podcast, it was over a year ago. It was
thinking that, okay, we have to be, you know, ahead of the curve, we have to think outside the box.
What are people doing to stay relevant and, you know, getting our message out and, you know,
and it evolved tremendously. But I will tell you as a teachable moment, I have been like that my
entire life, and I'm not afraid to share it. My entire life, if I see something I want, I go after
it. It made me lose money. It made me lose friends, and it made me gain friends, and it made me make
money. But ultimately, what I've learned from the process of jumping into it, never jump into it
unprepared. It's nice to jump into a lake because the lake is cool. It's, you know, it's hot outside.
But if you're going into a lake that has alligators, you got to think twice, right? If you're going to
a lake that's deep, you should have a life vest on. If there are waves coming in, you know, and
you have to think about it before you jump in. And to be honest with you, years of just, you know,
error, trial and error, and learning from mentors and asking people and understanding
fundamentals of life and how to behave took me to where I am today in terms of you're seeing the
progression. It started off with a little bit of a status, that, you know, a little bit of, you know,
marketing, branding, LinkedIn here and there. So yeah, I'm enjoying watching it. But how I'm curious
on your end, how is it? Jay, to answer your question, we actually did pretty well, I think,
in the first podcast, but what really says the story is the second podcast, we doubled our viewers.
And that means that we technically retained all the people that listened the first time and we got
new people as well. So a lot of pressure on you because we're expecting like the least triple,
you know, viewers from this. So we have high hopes. Yeah, unless our first podcast had one
listener. Well, we're not going to go there. No, no, no, no, no, no, you can't go there. You know,
but by the way, that's funny that you say that because that reminds me of an interesting,
let me ask you a question, is she? Yeah. Actually, Michael, awesome. In the history of the United
States of America, do you know what the most dangerous profession has been to date? In the
history of the United States, what has been the most dangerous profession? Well, let's try to
figure it out. I'm going to try. I'm a bread slicer. No. What are those people who they work
out of bridges, and they work in tunnels, right? They're always like, you see them high up in
the scaffold. Yeah, and you're always wondering like they're tied down because if they fall,
that's a long way down. That's a good guess. No, not that. No, not that. Okay, let's think of another
a fishing, I guess. Oh, wait a second, wait a second. Being a police officer. Oh, I mean,
you're putting yourself smart. Yeah, firefighter. What a firefighter. You know, that's got to be a
dangerous job. So you actually just call me off guard. I'll go with the firefighter one, and I'll
say no. But you know that I did not think you would guess it because I don't think anyone would
guess it. Police officer is the correct answer. But you know that and you know why? Because over
9% of police officers in the United States in the history have been killed in line of duty.
So when you think of it, most people, when you ask them this question, they're going to think of
something with the amount of people, the effort, yeah, where people that go diving in the ocean,
or they do this and that. But police officers, because there's not that many of them, but
in percentage, percentage wise, which is similar to your podcast being doubling. And that's why I
thought of it. So we're going to have to percentage wise, you say you're ready. Yes. No, no, we have
high expectations. We're not looking for percentage. We're looking for an actual, actual doubling.
But we were talking before about religion. We're talking about sort of, we're talking about extreme
religion, one can argue, right? We're talking about ultra orthodox, we're talking about extreme
government. Yeah, extreme, big government, big government, we're talking about. There was actually
a very interesting incident that happened about, I want to say a month or two ago, and it really
caught the world by storm. And there was there was a lot of opinions on this that went both ways.
Christian, I know where the two of you stand on this. We're ready. Yeah. And it's very interesting.
So the Kansas City Chiefs, they're a football team. They have a seriously, come on.
Putting it out, not everybody's into sports. Okay, okay. Okay. Doesn't matter. Yeah. So they're a
football team. And this individual's name is Harrison Butker. And he's a kicker. That's his job. He
kicks field goals. He's actually very talented. He's actually a celebrated kicker. He's very good
at his at his role. I think he might even be the in the league history, he might be one of the better
field goal kickers. And I'm telling you this, because I want you to know that this guy has
credibility. This guy is not a no name football player. He's not just somebody that when he says
something or does something, nobody cares. He's a guy that is pretty well known. I think actually
this year, he had a fantastic percentage. He actually was able to kick I think 95% more of his
kicks were field goals 95%. So he was invited to speak at a graduation for college. And he gave
a very what people called a very controversial speech. It was a pretty long speech. I recommend
you go back and you watch it. He said a lot of different things there. But overall, his messaging
that people took away was that he was sort of defining the roles between a man and a woman,
which is always a very dangerous topic, especially in the times that we live in. And the way he was
portraying a woman was more to be a housewife to be a mother. And it's a beautiful thing. You should
be proud of it. We should have more people like that. It was that was sort of what he and it was
in my opinion, I thought it was fine. It was okay. And it was he didn't say anything that stood out
to me that he was telling people what to do. And if you have a career, then you're terrible. He wasn't
applying that from a religious standpoint, according to him, a man sort of has his place
in the family, a woman has her place. And that was his message to the girls on that we're graduating.
People went berserk. This is this is so chauvinistic. This is terrible. What are we living
in the 1930s? This is this is crazy. Women are way more than just housewives these days. And they
totally missed the entire perspective that he is a religious person that devout religious person.
And when you think of religion, they live for God, they don't live for anything else, not about
materialistic things, not about this world. It's about the world to come. And it's about
serving God. And they believe that this is the best way to serve God. And that's fine. I'm okay with
it. I'm okay with it. Me as a person looking from the outside. That's fine with me. I don't choose
to have that lifestyle and that's that's okay. What I don't understand is why did people feel
compelled to jump down his throat and to go totally berserk on this? It was it because of some
self defense? They feel maybe a little guilty? Do they feel like with a jealous of this person
that he, you know, that maybe he's authentic? It's possible. And I'm not sure what it was. I have no
idea. But one thing is clear. There is a big divide right now, a huge divide when it comes to religion,
that even people that aren't religious or are religious when it comes to extreme religion,
people go nuts. It doesn't bother me. It doesn't bother me. I live my life. I respect those that
live theirs. And so does he. But unfortunately, like you started off saying, he's a very well
respected person. Any well respected person has to be careful what they say. Why? Because it's
sending a message. So you're asking why did people get offended by it or what rubbed them the wrong
way? What may have rubbed them the wrong way is we know you're a superstar, you're getting up there
to send a message. That's what you decide to talk about. A message of forget your career, be a house
wife and a mom. We're not saying it's not important, but maybe that's what rubbed people the wrong way.
I don't get it. I don't agree. I don't agree. His message was spot on in the sense that it was
relevant because he was talking to people that were graduating. And now they're going to make a
career choice. Are they going to go out into the workforce? Are they going to go get a career? Or
they're going to focus on, you know, getting married and having kids and having a family.
You know, that's the, they're at the crossroads right now. So that's when he boarded up. It was a
very appropriate speech. And he shared his view. He shared what he thought was the right path. I
actually, that's what it was. That's what it was. The Irish word J thing. I'm with you. He has a
platform. He has to be very careful when he says out there, but he's untitled. His opinion could
everybody else could give their opinions of what they want to do. He can't. So here's my take.
What was the basis of his opinion that he gave? Well, you said it, right? What was the base?
Where did that come from? His opinion? It was a belief based on what? Religion.
Okay. So it was a venue issue. If he would have said that in church, I don't think he would have
got that, that, that, that response. Good, good answer. You go, don't go to a, a, a, actually,
I like him as a player. I think he's the second, you know, highest, you know, field goal percentage in
NFL history, I think today, but I knew it was something. Yeah. I think he was like a drop
under 90%. But don't go to a, if it was a commencement speech or a graduation, we're talking about careers
and give your religious beliefs that have to do with careers, right? It's a venue issue.
It was, but I would like to argue aside though for a second. If I, I'm resonating now.
Yeah. What's what you're saying? Yeah. You're saying that it wasn't the right time and place.
I was saying when I said it, you didn't understand. No, I didn't. That's exactly what I said.
The way he, you know, but thank you for explaining it properly. You're welcome. Anytime, Michael.
I'll be here all week. Had he done this speech in like a church, for example, where people want to
talk about religion and what's your perspective of religion, what does God want from us,
then okay, that's his opinion. That's great. And it would have been fine. But because he was out in
the public where let's face it, people are in college for a degree to go to work. That's the
purpose of it. Why are you treating the women differently than the men? Why are you saying
a message to the women that, oh, maybe you shouldn't work. Maybe you should do something else.
If, for example, in this past Shabbos in your shul, your rabbi gets up there and he gives us a
speech and in the speech, he quotes a part of the Torah that says that, you know, Jews are not a lot
of intramary, right? Let's say it comes out and he continues about his day. No one says a word.
If he goes to college, a college at campus anywhere and he suddenly says, you know,
you know, Jews are not a lot of intramary and that's not even a career related item. There's
going to be demonstrations. Oh, these Jews think they're better. I just want to point out that
for me, this satisfies me and I think this is a great answer. But I want you to know that the
people that were upset weren't necessarily upset just like where he did it. They actually
fundamentally disagreed with him even if, and that's what they were upset. I don't know if they
realized it necessarily, of course, they're fundamentally. Yeah, that's what like, you know,
which like, let live, live and let live, you know, somebody has their opinion, their lifestyle, just
do your thing. Why do you have to jump down their throat? Yeah, Michael, what were you saying?
First of all, I mean, you know, we could talk about that all day, live and let live concept,
you know, and how it affects us. But I'm just making his argument for a second, if you will.
And that is that I'm here at a venue right now and I have a chance to impact young boys and
young girls. Okay. And I'm not saying who should be the parent and who should go out to work,
but sometimes it happens that one versus the other goes out. So maybe, just maybe he was giving them
encouragement and saying, I know you finished school now, you're going to go out in your career,
it's okay to also raise a family. And he was trying to tell the people that it's not just about the
money. It's not just about the career. It's about raising family. Don't forget the fundamentals.
Don't forget the foundation of what you're doing here. Take your career that you studied so hard on,
utilize that maybe to work part time while you're raising a family, but his focus was raising a
family and I actually resonate with that. Yeah. Yeah. You know, by the way, I have a,
I'm not going to say, you know, who it is, but a pretty close friend. She's a woman.
And she is the works for an organization. She works for a company, very big company,
very, very big company. They own a lot of nursing homes. And she's actually their lead
MDS coordinator, meaning she's in charge of their revenue. She's really a very vital part of the
organization. And I believe that if she wasn't a woman, she would be a nursing home owner today.
I believe she would own a lot of nursing homes. I should be very successful. She would thrive at
it. What's holding her back? And this is a woman. That's it. I think that, you know, as a Jewish
person, it became very like, you know, mainstream for them to not be in the workforce. And when
they are in the workforce, somehow it seems like they're not getting, they're not getting their
dues. They're not getting their dues. I don't know. I don't know why it is. It's a hot topic.
You're bringing up. And by the way, we're going to have Renee come on to the podcast very soon.
And this is a question I really want to ask her is how can we change that perception?
Oh, you're giving away all our secrets here. But it's okay. But the question is, I agree with you,
Oshiba. My question to you is how much of the reason is based on the world around the person
versus the person itself? Meaning she could, and I know of, I don't know personally, but I know of
nursing home owners that are women, right? Michael and I have a very close friend
who's a well, a couple and she owns a nice, she owns a title company that's doing well, right?
So how much of it is that this woman that you're referring to, doesn't feel comfortable because
of whatever their surroundings are. And she doesn't want to take that step. She's a powerhouse.
And tremendous, tremendous personality and work ethic like you've never seen before.
And I'm just using her as an example. There are so many more that are very capable,
have tremendous talent, and they're just not taken as seriously because it's a man's world.
I don't agree. So you're saying that it's the first part, that it's the world around that's not
allowing you to do it. Yes. I don't agree. I don't agree. I believe that, and you guys are giving
me examples of very successful women who run big companies. No, but you know why I do. You're
right. You could give me some examples. You know why I can't? But they all are and few and between.
I can't because they all listened to Harrison and they went to stay home and they didn't go out and
pursue. It just happens to be percentage wise, women do stay more home than they do go out.
So you're not going to ask a question of why are women not given the right
a bank, an operator, an administrator, a clinical director would love the opportunity for a woman
to say, Hey, I'm buying a nursing home. Everybody's ready for a woman to buy a nursing home. There
are women that own nursing home. Michael, let's agree. I'm friends with them. Let me ask you
something. Let's be realistic for a second. If you're the bank, okay, you're Greystone and you're
about to interview two people and they're both asking for the same amount of money, and they both
have a great business plan, both of them. One comes in as a female, one comes in as a male.
No, you don't think that there is a better chance if I asked you to wage her a million dollars,
who's going to get that job? I'm telling you, the million dollars of the line, Michael, make the
best decision that you really think. Ask me who's going to get the job, who's going to be the most
successful. Who's going to get that loan from this bank? Is it going to be the men or is it going to
be the woman? I honestly think it might even be the women. No, but I think I think we might even
be that's his question. I know, but he wants me to say men. I'm saying I don't want you to ask.
No, I'm saying is that I really think that there's equal opportunity for men and women
today to get loans and to thrive. And I think banks would welcome women. That's what I asked.
Okay. No, what Michael's trying to say, I think, is that you were pushing to say that it's a man's
world and they'll get it. He's thinking the other way around saying is that companies want the
minorities and the women because to balance out their balance, she said. Why? Why do they want?
Because they want to show that they're a real business of minorities. Why do they want to show that?
Because is it a real problem that exists? Because not having that exists, are you saying that?
No, no, no, no, no. It's an equal chance to be successful in our society that a man does.
Is that what you're saying? Yes. If she decides not to have kids and stay home, yes.
Okay. I actually vehemently disagree with that. I think you're delusional. If you think that that
man and that woman going to Greystone, getting that loan and she gets it before he gets it.
And they're both regional directors of nursing homes for 10 years and they're both MDS and
clinically educated. Yeah, exactly. And they're going to give the man more than the woman.
No, I don't think so. I would bet a million dollars on it. It's okay.
And why would that be different? Meaning is from the bank's standpoint,
who are we better off with the chance that we're going to get our money back?
Mm-hmm. There you go.
You can see that there is thought to go into it because of your gender.
And therefore, I think that's one of the reasons why women like that are not as prevalent.
You tamed it down a lot, by the way. Yeah. And I'm a big proponent, I believe,
of all these organizations that want to prop up women and they want to go out of their way
to actually help women. Let's get it. You know what? Make funds that invest just in women
because at the end of the day, they should be given a shot. Just like everybody else.
They're just as capable.
But again, back to venue because if you go back into your shul, then, and you start talking about
it and you're looking at Torah and they don't put on filling and they don't do this and they
don't do that because they're female and they don't count towards a minion. Suddenly.
I'm not talking from a religious standpoint. I'm just from a subtle shul standpoint.
I'm just curious if you had a daycare service for children and a man or a woman came to be
qualified, it would be a woman that would be more qualified. Right? Okay.
She would have a better chance of right. Of course, because similar to flying on the way
down, God forbid, where you want someone that can react without emotion, men. But when it comes to
banking and business, I'm sorry. I don't have this all started simply because I made a comment
about this person's MDS coordinator who I think is capable of owning men in her. And she should
operating that she should. She's not because she's a man and you're not like, because she's not
low. What does that have to do with them? Yeah, let's just say it has something to do with it.
But the bottom line is I got very much carried away from my point. My point I was trying to make
is I believe there's a lot of people and Jay, you're an owner, you're an operator. You have a lot
of people that work for you. I believe that there is somebody in your midst that you may not even
know their name. You may have served somebody in your organization knows the name, but you're
a little removed. You don't know everybody and that's okay. But every single organization,
including yours, there was a diamond in the rough there. There's somebody there that can actually
be sitting on your chair and possibly be doing a better job than you for sure. Possibly much.
So very possible. So as an owner operator, you go about, are you looking for that? Are you trying
to see who your talented people are? Were you content as long as things are flowing, things
are working, they're not going to get too much involved, because you might be missing out on
something. No, I'm always looking. I'm always looking for talent. You always want talent that's
smarter than you, better than you. I'm not in any way shape or form close to the smartest,
the most talented person in the company. From the people in my company, I'm one of the luckiest
that I am in the situation. I got there by appreciation, due to strong appreciation to
a couple of people and sheer luck. But everyone's looking for better talent to get better people
and to manage them and to keep them into all to bring the best out of those people, always,
to extract the best out of quality from those people. I have to tell you that I was traveling
for three days straight with one of your business partners. Okay. And the last name does not rhyme
with a fliggle, Belm. No, it rhymes with farth. Okay. So we went out on a couple of days trip,
because I wanted to learn more about operations in a nursing home. I wanted to get the perspective
of an operator. I have to interject and say to you that I, and when I said lucky,
is that's one of the biggest parts. The best, I am, yes, it's a plug, but we don't get money
and paid for this. But the best operator in nursing homes in the world, thankfully, is my partner,
Mr. Rhyming with Flars. We know him well. I'm gonna confirm that. We could see the merit in him
saying that it's certainly not something that you dismiss. Well, I'm gonna confirm your feelings
and tell you what happened, which resonates exactly with what you just said that you're
dealing with people. Real quick, we were on the highway, it was seven o'clock in the morning,
and he got a panic phone call from someone and he interrupted me and he's like, I'm sorry,
I gotta take this call. And I couldn't hear the other side. But for 10 minutes, I saw his empathy
and I saw his facial expressions and how he was talking to her. It's gonna be okay.
We're here for you if there's anything you need on and on and on. And when he hung up,
I said, what happened? He said, one of my clinical people last night lost their cat.
Well, I was like, really, really 10 minutes you spent? Well, he turns to me and he said,
we are a people company. Wow. I didn't even know that story, but that's a great story.
And he said that's what it's all about. It's about people. Jay, it was a pleasure having you.
The pleasure was mine. Thank you for admitting and agreeing with me about the
cold thing and I really appreciate you having me on. Have a great day.
What an amazing episode that was. I always look forward to getting guests to co-host our episodes
with us. What I particularly loved about this one is the art of debate and taking that to the
next level. I think we're onto something. I just want to ask everybody to please like,
subscribe, comment, follow, get involved, get a LinkedIn. We're doing live every week on Thursdays
at 12 o'clock. Look at our business roundtable that we're doing on the PrimeSource YouTube channel.
Would love to see more of everyone everywhere. Together, we are stronger.