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.org. Welcome back to the Inspired Insights podcast,
one of our final episodes of season three. I
know, I can't even with it. Well, today we are
joined by two lovely guests, former colleagues
of mine in high school. If you could introduce
yourselves. Oh, me first. All right. Hi, my name
is Sophie Yerxa Robinson. I was a graduate in
2024. So last year. So I've gone through a semester
of college now at Temple University. In my time
at Hamden, I did a lot of things with Bennett
and Soren. I was in the drama club. I was the
president of Trium and NHS. And I did a lot of
other little things. And I was valedictorian
my last year, too. Just a few small things. Just
nice for you little things. But, yeah. It's so
nice to have you here. Yeah, thank you. My name
is Bennett Mulholland. Anthony is my middle name.
I'm 19. Also graduated with Sophie. I did a lot
in high school. I guess like theater. I played
a lot of sports. I played tennis, basketball.
Was also in Tri -Am. I was also in NHS. Basically
all the things that Sophie did, just a little
less. Well, you did sports and I didn't do any
sports. So yeah, it fills in the hole. Yeah.
I just finished my first year at Southern Maine
Community College and I'm transferring to USM
next year for musical theater. Oh, cool. Thanks
for having me. Oh, nice to have you here. For
sure. For sure. Welcome, both of you. Thank you.
Awesome sauce. Well, it's time to go around with
our inspired insights on the theme of school
and me having just graduated unofficially, graduating
this Sunday. I would like to share and elaborate
a little bit about my senior quote, which is
a quote from Ovid. Omniamuntantor. Nirhil Interit,
which is everything changes, nothing dies. Oh,
I love that. Yeah. And I think in regards to
my academic pursuit, what I found that quote
to mean to me is that my sort of lust for learning
and knowledge. and my zeal around education will
always be changing. And the way I pursue education
will always be changing as I'm no longer going
to be in a high school setting and moving to
a college setting. However, my passion for learning
shall never die. Yeah. Bennett, if you could
share. Yeah. Sophie, if you'd like to share.
OK, I can share. I guess I'll share my big thing,
which has been joy, which when I was in middle
school, I had a teacher. I really struggled with
anxiety for a really long time and like really
heavy burnout. And I had this one teacher and
she pulled me aside and she's like, Sophie, you
have to choose joy. And ever since then, that's
been my big driving factor through all of my
time and why I chose to go into the arts and
why I'm, you know, taking that route of no job
security and choosing an academic field that
is constantly changing. Yeah. Yeah. We talk about
joy almost every episode. It is a near constantly.
It is a repeating theme. And I want to make sure
we get some time to come back to that insight,
too. For sure. Do you need more time, Beto? Oh,
no, no. I'm ready. I was ready. I did not want
to be worse. Right. I don't know. My whole life,
I was just kind of brought up on like working
hard kind of and like trying to do the best you
can while also doing the most that you can in
a healthy way. So kind of like with what Sophie
said about prioritizing joy, I think that's a
really good thing to just like keep in mind because
it's good to work hard and it's good to push
yourself and to experience new things. But it's
also important. to draw it back a little bit
if you understand that that's taking a mental
or physical toll on on you or your body so yeah
rest yeah rest for sure um wise words for both
of you as first year college students too i love
that um my inspired insight is a quote and i
had did not memorize it i am not an onstage kind
of guy. So I will post the quote, but it is meaningful
for me around Pride Month, which is, this is
one of many episodes we've shot during Pride.
And it's the 10 -year anniversary of an activist
in South Carolina who ripped down the Confederate
flag from that state chambers. sort of thinking
about that idea of good trouble. And she was
quoted in saying that this piece around we are
living in trying times, these are challenging
times, and these are times that require courage
and bravery. And when we're stuck in those moments
of trying to get our feet moving forward and
act in courageous ways, she presses pause and
thinks backwards about the people who sacrificed.
for her to be here and do the things that she's
doing. And that gives her the opportunity to
think forward about who might follow in her steps.
And so acting bravely feels like an urgent necessity
for her. It gives thanks to those who came first.
And it's thinking about the future generations
that our acts of bravery today might be that
which gives inspiration to the... Folks of tomorrow.
So that was something that stuck with me as well.
Yeah. So on this lovely episode, as now I've
completed high school, along with these two lovely
fellas. Can we just press pause on that for a
second? You are done high school. It's true.
Have you like processed that yet? To be honest,
okay. So like emotionally, I've... Kind of felt
nothing in regards to high school ending for
me. I don't know if I've really like not processed
it or I simply am apathetic towards my high school
experience. Yeah. I think like I'm really pleased
with my high school experience. I was thinking
the other day, what do I regret not doing? And
frankly, I think I did everything that I was
interested in. At the same time, manage to pull
it all off with, like, a relatively high degree
of success. Yeah. Well, at the same time, putting
in as minimal effort as necessary. Right, right.
Right. So, I don't know. I'm sad that I'll not
be able to do JCL or whoop anybody in Kirtaman
anymore. Yeah. It's okay. You can come back and
watch. I want to introduce it to Glasgow, actually.
That would be what I was to say. But mainly,
it's a sensation of sort of like empty hopefulness.
Like, I don't really care about high school.
I care about my future. Yeah, you've said things
along those lines before. So does it feel like
this whole graduation, like literal pop and circumstance
is much ado about nothing? I think that the social
utility of the pomp and circumstance. is to incentivize
students to finish high school for like social
clout reasons. Yeah. Right. Well, you literally
march marching practices at the elementary school.
Right. Sort of inspirational. Yeah. Yeah. And
that in particular, I think, serves as sort of
a propaganda piece for completing standardized
education. The propaganda of graduation. I mean,
it is. Yeah. Especially me. Like I was a trans.
Well, I transferred from another town to Hamden.
So going through that whole process, it meant
something completely different to me because
I didn't know any of these people and I was kind
of going through their tradition. It was like
very much like systematic. This is how we do
things. So this is how you're going to graduate.
Did it feel, I'm fascinated by this and we'll
get to the topic. Did it feel sort of like this
non -issue for both of you at this time last
year as well? I was so ready. As much that you
all did, like every sport you played, every production
you were part of, it still was just like there
was no sense of rite of passage. So basically
since sophomore year, it was just like go, go,
go, go, go all the time that by the time I got
to the end of my senior year, I was kind of burned
out. I was ready. I was ready to leave. But it
took like a month or two for me to realize that
I did actually kind of miss going back to school.
And I've said multiple times that. If I had the
chance to go through high school again, just
like without homework, I definitely would. Because
my friends, same. I definitely would. But you
have to think about the friends that you made,
the relationships created. Like half of the memories
that I can think of in my life come from high
school. And that's probably just because of the
amount that I did in high school. But see, I
miss experiencing those things for the first
time. Well, and respectfully, it might also be
a function of age and experience. You've been
out for a year and then you had four years of
some solid memories and activities to reflect
on. There are probably, and I'm spitballing a
bit, maybe five. There are five wake -ups that
I remember that stick with me now in my 50th
year. One of those wake -ups is the day after
the project graduation. And just that sensation
of never. Yeah. Again. Yeah. All done. And there,
it was as much a sense of accomplishment, not
because of the activities of the groups I was
in. It was survival. Like. Yeah. Did it. Yep.
Did it. 10 out of 10. Have to recommend it. Yeah.
But. It's really great. Yeah. That was very much
my experience too. Like I got to that end and.
I was ready. It's done. And you just usually
feel sorry. You feel like you survived. And you
feel like you're ready to actually live your
own life. You're not living the life that other
people have wanted you to live. For you, right.
Yeah, because, I mean, like, I never got to do
my music and my acting during the school day.
I mean, I went to chorus, but I never did my
voice lessons during the day or, like, go to
classes that really were about what I wanted
to do. Yeah, because everything was after school,
events, weekends. Same with sports. Yes, yeah.
Which that's been my big thing this year was
having this whole big realization of like I'm
doing what I want. It was was a hobby in school
now. So I have I actually have hobby time again
and I have a life now that I don't have to like
sacrifice for what I want to do and what I want.
Yeah, that's an interesting perspective. OK,
thanks for that. Thanks for entertaining that
with me. Actually, in regards to the sensation
of like loss one experiences after they leave
high school, I think. All of us at this table
have like a much brighter future past high school
than our high school career, even though we've
managed to achieve some quite illustrious things
and accumulate some accolades from high school.
And I think that the individuals like I've noticed
a lot of, for example, jocular boys and like
sort of this posse of girls at my school become
extremely passionate about like the. sort of,
like, traditions around leaving high school,
and they seem to be mourning it a lot more. And
I think that that is potentially indicative of
them having peeped in high school. Oh, I knew
you were going to say that. Did you tense up?
Like, I just tensed up? I knew that's what you
were going to say. We were talking about this
before we even started the episode, too. Yeah.
And unfortunately, you can tell. Yeah. I get
that. You know, one of the taglines for this
podcast is, you know, our best days are still
ahead. And so that's just it's truly a mantra
that I believe. And even 30, yeah, 30 something
years ago when I graduated high school, I graduated
with some of those folks, too, who we, you know,
we knew they knew whether it was spoken or not.
They were never going to leave. They were going
to go work in the same place, factory, industry,
taking over that family legacy. And due to other
influences like socioeconomic and just straight
out poverty, they had no other options. And so
that's what I reflect on now. It reminds me of
that Napoleon Dynamite. Character with throwing
the football over the moon. Anytime I think peaked
in high school, that is. Yeah. Yeah. So I get
that that morning, to use your word, like looks
maybe different based on the experience of not
only what you've done backwards retrospectively,
but what you're planning forward. And if you're
not planning for much, these are probably the
days that you'll miss the most. Right. Yeah.
100%. no yeah that was definitely I that was
what I always hated that that idea of being stuck
here and like getting out and that being my time
to be free and what they're telling me is like
the whole time going through high school they're
like this is the last time you'll be a minor
this is the last time you'll be like free to
do everything and I have to worry about adult
things and it's like but I kind of want to worry
about adult things not all the time but like
I get to actually have an opinion about it and
make my own way and well this is exactly why
Soren invited both you to be part of this conversation
is thinking about other colleagues of Soren that
like Soren are regardless of effort I just want
to caveat back regardless of effort high achieving
driven motivated Lots of interests, lots of hobbies
and skills. And with that comes a lot of pressure,
whether it's internalized or placed upon you.
And so this was, I think, a really this was a
conversation you and I even started talking about
in season two about this idea of what does success
look and feel like for a young person? And there's
so much. stereotype and stigma about kids these
days. And the three of you at this table represent
both kids these days and really passionate, driven,
high achieving young people. And then what comes
with that? You know, then you think about at
what cost. Yeah. If I were to go back, I've been
thinking about this a lot this year, especially
in like doing all my new classes and everything.
If I went back to high school, I would not have
strived so much to be valedictorian. And I probably
wouldn't have because I was valedictorian in
middle school, in a very, very small middle school.
And so you were very much like climbing a ladder.
And once you were at the top, you had to like
hold your position down. And it was like you
sacrifice everything for your academic external
achievements. You have to, your worth and your
success is what external. Did you know at some
point, at some point in your high school career,
did you consciously say, I have a goal and my
goal is to be graduating top of my class? Yeah,
I think it was, I think it was right when I got
there. It was something that I was like, I'm
new to this environment and I really want to,
you know, I was like, I... At first, I thought
it was I had to be. It was for a long time. It
was very negative. And it was it was really not
until I actually achieved it that I was like,
OK, I wanted to do that. But I sacrificed so
much for that that I don't think I would have
done it again. And if I had to go back to high
school, first of all, I would not be happy. Second
of all, I think. I would have tried a lot less
and I would have passed my classes minimum and
done what I wanted more. I agree. I would do
the same thing. Yeah. Even with sports? Sports?
Yeah, probably, actually. I was thinking in my
head, I was like, no, I'd probably still work
as hard. But if I had to go back, like we're
talking about, I probably wouldn't try as hard.
Like in tennis, I tried so hard every single
match in tennis. get really down on myself if
I'd like lose a match or like even lose a game
and there's a lot of games in a match of tennis
so it was really easy for me to get down on myself
when I was in high school like with my sports
so I feel like if I went back with the knowledge
I have now I probably wouldn't try as hard because
I would know that that would maybe bring a negative
experience onto me again Do you guys feel that
the pressure that was propelling you guys to
achieve so highly was internally or externally
derived? And more specifically, where do you
think it was coming from? For me? Go ahead. For
me, definitely internally. Obviously, my parents,
my friends wanted me to succeed and thrive, but
never to the point that I had in my own head.
So we started the episode off, I... started talking
about like working hard and like pushing myself
I did that in like a very unhealthy way in high
school and like going to college and living by
myself and like having my own freedom really
showed me that I did that negatively and it did
take a toll on me in high school so yeah yeah
no definitely I think so too I think the more
widely known because especially near the end
when everyone was like oh you're top of your
class oh you're close to being top of your class
and I was getting all these achievements and
everything I definitely felt like it was it was
not like you have to be this way but it was like
this social expectation of being there and like
you are that and if I'm not that oh it's just
like okay yeah it you know it's like Kind of
that social disappointment for you, like the
pity if you're not there, which I've never, ever
been able to take socially. And what I'm hearing
both of you say, I think, is 100 % or close to
100 % of that pressure and drive was you both
internally. You didn't have people like, back
to your room, keep practicing, keep studying,
don't come out until you've put in six hours.
My mom said, please get a B. My mom told me to
sleep. She was like, Bennett, go to sleep. And
I'm like, but I have to do my homework. I have
to study my lines. I have to do this and this
and this and this. Yeah, it was a lot. And that
was really what the breaking point was for me.
My parents honestly were worried about how much
I was putting in. And they're like, you need
to stop. And that's where the whole idea of joy
came in. Trying to connect me with that teacher
because I was just, I could not get past it.
And now being in a place, I see how detrimental
that is because you set those habits in and then
your whole life you're thinking that's how you
get your validation. And has it changed the way
you've approached now secondary education? Like
the way you're approaching classes or extracurriculars?
100%. Yeah, at least. Yeah. Before, if I got
anything under like a 96, I'd be in my teacher's
office being like, how can I help improve this?
How can I improve? And now I got like a 70 on
one of my science tests. I'm not a scientist.
And I was like, fine, that's okay. And I still
had all As for that semester because it's one
part of the greater whole, which I never was
able to grasp. So here's the crow I'm about to
eat. For the past year and a half -ish, I have
criticized and taunted my co -host over there.
Because daily there's conversations about, as
minimal effort, I'll catch up, you know, I'll
pull it together for the last month and a half.
And Soren does it every time. And what I'm hearing
you both say is maybe Soren's on to something.
Maybe Soren had something figured out that we,
because I was a high achieving, nowhere near,
I was top 10, not maybe 10%, not number one.
Grades and extracurriculars and all of that stuff
was very important to me. And nobody was saying,
you better, you need to. It was 100 % self -derived.
And the kids like Soren drove me bonkers because
I was like nose to grind to try to memorize,
to try to perform. And Soren will waltz in, crack
open the book for literally the first time and
ace it. It is something that I, I've realized
over this year is that you like doing a lot of
Alexander technique is actually something that
I learned a lot this year. And it's about finding
the flow state and being as minimal as possible,
but executing the highest you can be physically.
But I think it goes a lot towards mental stuff
too, and like preparing for performance. And
it really is about going back to your absolute
like base level. And I think it serves for academics
too, because like. I was that person who was
nose to the grind every, every day. And I honestly
did worse when I prepared like that. And so because
you're not, you're tiring yourself out before
you can even get there. And like the system that
is built around education and what is expected
for you and what academics is, is not an accurate
representation of what. a regular person can
perform because you're expected to have a hundred
percent you're expected to know everything or
that's what you think you're expected right to
know but it's you actually have to think and
people that are highly intelligent enough to
push past that and just walk in i mean like my
greatest tests yeah but half the time i was also
just trying to fit into that system I owe Soren
an apology. I'd like to actually touch on the
dynamic between like intrinsic and extrinsic
motivation. Like you guys are extremely high
achievers because you're intrinsically motivated
to do so. And you push yourself for that. I think
I am frankly severely lacking in any amount of
intrinsic motivation. If I had no external pressure
coming from my mother or like... Hard stop there.
My mother, period. Or like my desire to succeed
amongst my classmates. Frankly, I would do zero
homework and I'd flunk out of school. Except
at the same time, I really enjoy school. Like
I like learning. So school was something that
was extremely rewarding for me to show up to
every day. But I think that is almost equivalently
to my detriment as... being extremely motivated
intrinsically, right? And actually, something
that I've noticed in my classes is sort of like
a competition for nonchalance, at least among
the... That cohort. In particular, my cousin
and one of his really good friends. And also,
I see it in myself as well. Like, we are all...
relatively intelligent, I would say. And sort
of an indicator of our intelligence to each other
is how little effort we can put in while also
performing at a baseline, right? Like, I have
often found myself bragging about not studying
at all for APs and then getting fines on all
of them. Do you talk about it? Like, is it something
out loud you will say, how little did you, and
I'm paraphrasing. Well, oftentimes as a humble
brag. People, and I myself included, in this
will say, oh, yeah, I didn't study for that.
Yeah. Or like, oh, yeah, I haven't done any work.
I would be like, oh, there were times and be
like, yeah, I didn't study that much. And then
I was up for it. Yeah. I'd be home at like three
and then study until like. Just to like fit in
with that vibe of. Right. Because I also like
it was that vibe of like when I did try hard
and was openly try hard. It was the thing. You're
a try hard. That becomes a negative thing. Yeah.
Really? Yeah. This is fascinating to me. So there's
this among the high achieving high schoolers,
there's this sort of subset of those who can
try the least but succeed the most. There's like
a badge of honor around that. Yes. I think that
lends the most clout because then it's like,
oh. Naturally, I tell you this. I need not put
an effort to succeed. I'm superior to you. Right.
So maybe like, again, thinking of sports and
music. So that might be the singer who just has
perfect pitch and doesn't need to run the vocal
Olympics kind of stuff or the tennis player who
naturally hits 105 mile per hour serve and doesn't
need to like be out there. hour after hour. It's
the natural ability or natural intelligence.
Yeah. Which, oh, go ahead. And I think, too,
like, intelligence serves you, but so does hard
work and is, I think, the most potent combination
when you have them together, right? I'm going
to remind you that you said that at some point
in the near future, that it does take both. I
can scrape along putting in no effort. I can.
Yeah. Is that fantastic for me? And does that
result in the result that I would want? Probably
not. Well, it's probably, my guess, having not
been to the colleges that you explored and are
going to, my guess is what passed at the high
school level may not pass at the... collegiate
level right and so maybe that's where that balance
comes in I'm thinking that you both are talking
about is recognizing that okay my parents can't
email my teacher anymore and get the assignment
sent directly to my parent to then hold over
my head at home and so scraping by at the college
level may be a bit more of a roll of the dice
I yeah definitely that was The biggest thing
that I got from being so self like internally
motivated and I was always my own advocate was
that then I got to college and that's what everyone
expected already. So I could fall back on that
original like habitual structure of how I pre
-academics but take off a lot of the effort and
still perform. Honestly, I think I've understood
material more when I'm trying less and like I
think my performance has been better since that.
But yeah. Interesting. So that pressure to try,
as we're talking about it, the memorization,
the cramming, the note -taking, the flashcards,
that actually detracts from the actual learning
and internalizing the... You've been on to something,
my friend. Yeah. Well, I think academics was
not an emotional pursuit. He is so clinical.
Yeah. As I've said, I think in many an episode,
the more we allow our emotions to dominate our
mind, the less our logical faculties are able
to dictate our decisions and thoughts. Right.
Which is sort of led to my cold, detached outlook
on life. But at the same time, I think it's important,
especially in like. competitive environments
in which we're sort of like vying for both social
attention and like personal success um that we
leave our emotions out of it because although
our emotions provide motivators they can also
be to our detriment right even uh in a lot of
the acting training that i've done this year
in the music training it's all about getting
very clinical and very emotionally detached before
you bring the emotions back in Because you're
not, you're supposed to have a mechanism that
will work and that will present something to
the audience that will then elicit an emotional
response from them. But you yourself should not
be sacrificing emotions at your own, because
you leave a part of your soul on with whatever
production you're doing. Right. If you don't
take care of yourself and set the clinical system
first. Yeah. Well, I, what I keep. The word in
my brain that keeps flashing like a neon sign
is balance. Like what I hear all three of you
talking about is a need for balance, that a balance
of motivations, a balance of joy plus the clinical
aspects, dissecting your craft in a way that
you didn't get to do in your high school career,
and you kind of exploring what balance looks
like. for just rest, right? And not driving your
body to a state of exhaustion night after night
after night. Right. To quote our former Latin
teacher quoting Epicurus, moderatio in omnibus.
Which means? Moderation in all things. Yeah.
I translated that one. Yeah. Oh, yeah. What are
you reflecting at all about? Like, are you thinking
about what happens, like what switches in the
fall when you're in another country? Yeah. Like
what? does balance look like for you going forward
or maybe you don't know yet I think I have never
been an individual who embraces balance yes I
am extreme to the utmost in all things yeah I
either fully do something or I don't do it at
all. Well, and add to that, in episode five,
when we were talking about our Myers -Briggs,
you talked a lot about thriving or being driven
by the chaos. The more urgent the deadline times
the least amount of preparation you've done.
You thrive in that environment. It's true. So
I think next year I am going to likely jump headlong
into the social structures of college and the
academic pursuits and my interests. But I am
not certain that I'll be able to jump headlong
into the labor that those things entail. Do you
have any... I know like anxiousness would not
be an emotion that you would typically reflect
on. But does it when you like hearing you as
you say those words, I channel your parents and
go like that makes me extremely nervous. You
know, I reckon such things are to be worried
about by me in three months. I wish I had that
skill. Yeah, I have a lease next year or for
the next fall and I'm already worried about it.
I'm like, okay, am I going to leave the stove
on? I can't even imagine going to another country.
I'd be like... I'm curious. I truly feel no emotional
burden from having late work. Like it does not
weigh on me. And the burden is actually doing
it. I wonder, both of you, is it more labor intensive
to ignore late work or do it for you? Are we
talking about high school or collegiate? I think
that's a really good question. Because I have
two different answers for both of them. Yeah.
Hollage, I think it's honestly less of like a
strenuous activity. To just let it be late. For
me personally, I had, you know, coming from high
school and like working so hard and, you know,
taking rest into account. I did have a couple
of late assignments throughout the year, as one
would more in the second semester than the first.
But having those late assignments didn't stress
me out and affect me emotionally the way that
it did in high school. And again, I. went into
SMCC as a criminal justice major. And I was there
for a week sitting in this dining hall, not dining
hall, this lecture hall. And I was like, I don't
want to do this. So I put plans together to transfer
to USM for musical theater. And it's, I was basically
a liberal arts student when I went to SMCC. So
I just took a bunch of gen eds. just a bunch
of classes that didn't matter, intro to literature,
intro to business. But the credits transfer and
count. Right, right. So for me, knowing that
I didn't need to try my utmost hardest on these
beginner level classes, I was able to like step
back and be a little bit more lenient on late
work and be able to put real adult activities
that actually matter to me in my life over doing
a random assignment that, would take me an hour
and a half that I'd never think about again.
Yeah. But in high school, it's entirely different
for me. I would, I maybe had like five late assignments
my entire high school career. Yep. Because I
was just, I was, I was unable to do that. I,
five. I'm, I'm kind of have the opposite situation.
Like knowing where I've sinned five one time.
Yeah. Yeah. I'm like. Yeah. Tweaking. Some of
it is a lot. And I hate this word I'm going to
use, but I can't think of another one. Some of
it for me feels like consequence, right? What's
the consequence? So in one setting, the consequence
might be some finger wagging, an email home,
a reduction of a couple points on the paper,
and a nagging parent who is going to be on your
case. At the college level, the consequence might
be a zero and you're moved on to the next week
of assignments. And as somebody who teaches at
four schools currently, I'm very clear with my
students at all of those schools what the consequence
is for late work. If the student is not communicating
with me and saying, I know this is due, can I
have an extension, which I 100 % of the time
give, in the absence of the communication, which
is the adult skill we're trying to model, a zero.
And we move on to the next, like, I don't accept
the late work. If the number grade, what I have
learned about today's college student, typical
college student, the number on the... paper doesn't
matter as much about as compared to did I earn
those three credits like the GPA aside did I
at least get a 70 blank so that these three credits
aren't wasted and if the credit is the goal and
the grade the GPA is not the goal then that baseline
of what performance looks like If bare bones
is here, the C grade might be here. And I am
constantly, and I shouldn't be at this point
because I've been teaching a long time. It's,
I feel like I have students who week one absolutely
know, have figured out how many blanks they can
have in their grade book. To still earn the 70
something to get the three credits in the bank.
Yep. And that's exactly what they do. Yep. More
energy is spent figuring out the system than
actually doing the work. Right. Which is why
I realized like I would never go back and be
the valedictorian again because you're fighting.
It's not actually about what you're learning.
It's about beating the system. Right. Right.
Right. It's that like. When I graduated and then
like even that summer and then when I started
college, I was like, I wasted so much time instead
of just actually. I mean, of course, I learned
a lot and I took a lot of information in and
really think, you know, earned what I earned
and got a lot of knowledge from the. But still,
like, yeah, you're also fighting a system and
you're not actually learning as much. Yeah. Yeah.
And if the final of the class is worth. 50 %
of the grade, there will be some people who nail
that final, grab the three credits, but not need
to put in a whole lot of assignments or work
in the initial 14 weeks of the semester. The
15 week is where it all turns on. Actually, something
that a former math teacher of mine that had me
for two years. said to me as I was talking to
him for what's likely the last time ever. He
said, you were always a good student, but if
I were to give you a grade on playing the game,
I would give you an F. Oh, interesting. Playing
the game? Like playing the game. What do you
think? Tell me what you think was meant by that.
What was meant by that is that, like, in class,
I'm always extremely passionate about the material.
I always have quite good comprehension of the
material. I always enjoy discussing it with the
teacher. Like, I always want to learn more. Outside
of class, I don't want to touch a single thing
ever. And I want to go and go for a bike ride.
I want to talk to my friends. Live life. Yeah,
exactly. I don't care. Right. Like Chase Joy.
And in order to play the game of high school,
you need to care disproportionately about the
stuff that's happening outside of the classroom.
In like, I would say a very significant way.
Especially like modern day with extracurriculars
and their importance to like getting into college.
Like nowadays, I feel like for really high performing
students, you in fact are incentivized to put
more effort in your pursuits. Around school than
you are into your pursuit of school. Yeah. You're
expected to have like 16 hour days. Yeah. And
yeah. Do you feel like that particular teacher
who should be named? Was that a sort of a backhanded
compliment or was it because as you were describing
that, I was like, it actually sounds like you
played the game really friggin smart. Um, yeah.
For yourself, yeah. I played the game strategically.
My win con was poor, though. I think, especially
coming from that teacher in particular, it was
not an insult in the least. It was actually a
point of pride for me. Yeah. As I think that
I can both maintain my sort of rebellion against
society at large through my lack of... effort
into like the pursuits that are expected of me
while at the same time engaging it with said
pursuits on a deeper level than others. Yeah.
Right. Like I'm not checking the boxes. I'm reading
between the lines. And that makes me kind of
like. Yeah. I don't know. Sort of like anti -society
while at the same time having a deep understanding
of it. Which for me is sort of the goal. Like
we talk about what resistance looks like often.
It's not ever been important to me that a student,
whether that's high school or college, be able
to spit back the rote memory, like the ability
to memorize the bones of your hand or the categories
of fish species or whatever the thing is. That's
never been important to me. The ability to engage
in the material and demonstrate. a deeper understanding
than what is written, the words on page. That's
always been my goal, like critical thinking,
the ability to master joy while also engaging
in the pursuit of deeper thought. And for some
students, that might be best done in the Latin
classroom, other students in the music room and
other students in the woodshop. It doesn't matter
to me what the setting is. The ability to engage
and demonstrate a passion for learning, if I
were teaching more, that would be my absolute
goal. And how it's reflected doesn't require
homework and pop quizzes. I totally agree. Like,
I think the compliance to the system and the
societal structure was so detrimental to me and
has left me with so many mental health things
to combat and like to overcome. And yeah, I know
what I'm not fighting the system anymore. It's
always the English classes. You always have that
English teacher that'll give you like a 48 .25
and you're like, where, how did you give me two
fifths of, for 5 % of a point? Like that doesn't
make any sense. And then you can't read their
handwriting. And even in college, that's how
it is. And like really stepping back from that,
being like, nope, that doesn't matter. I got
a lot from that material. I presented that. I'm
still got a great grade and all my feedback is
great. And I feel like I've learned something
and that's what is valuable. Yeah, well, what
I also hear you all saying is if you had to go
back and do it again the same way it was laid
out last time, you'd have to change your strategy
because that didn't work for you. Exhaustion,
anxiety, stress, pressure, missing out on moments
of joy and social opportunities. If you could
go back and redesign your high school career.
in a way that matched your passion and what is
the, to use Soren's words, what's the utility
of this education, that's where you would find
success and then be able to do it again and do
it differently. Yeah. 100%. Well, wrapping up
this episode. Thank you guys so much, Sophie
and Bennett, for coming on the show. Yeah, nice
to finally meet you both. Great to meet you as
well. Thank you for having us. For our listeners,
thank you so much for listening. We'll see you
next week, and have a lovely rest of your day.
Thanks for listening, all. The Inspired Insights
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