WEBVTT 00:00:00.010 --> 00:00:02.750 The Inspired Insights podcast is for informational 00:00:02.750 --> 00:00:05.070 and entertainment purposes only and should not 00:00:05.070 --> 00:00:07.570 be considered health advice. This podcast is 00:00:07.570 --> 00:00:09.609 not intended to replace professional medical 00:00:09.609 --> 00:00:12.550 advice. Please note that this podcast may contain 00:00:12.550 --> 00:00:14.970 discussions on sensitive topics such as mental 00:00:14.970 --> 00:00:17.550 illness, suicide and substance use. If you are 00:00:17.550 --> 00:00:19.969 experiencing a behavior health crisis or need 00:00:19.969 --> 00:00:23.109 support, please contact the 988 Suicide and Crisis 00:00:23.109 --> 00:00:29.050 Lifeline by calling 988 or visiting www .988lifeline 00:00:29.050 --> 00:00:56.740 .org. Welcome back to the Inspired Insights podcast, 00:00:57.399 --> 00:01:01.420 one of our final episodes of season three. I 00:01:01.420 --> 00:01:05.480 know, I can't even with it. Well, today we are 00:01:05.480 --> 00:01:09.000 joined by two lovely guests, former colleagues 00:01:09.000 --> 00:01:12.719 of mine in high school. If you could introduce 00:01:12.719 --> 00:01:16.620 yourselves. Oh, me first. All right. Hi, my name 00:01:16.620 --> 00:01:20.500 is Sophie Yerxa Robinson. I was a graduate in 00:01:20.500 --> 00:01:23.840 2024. So last year. So I've gone through a semester 00:01:23.840 --> 00:01:28.299 of college now at Temple University. In my time 00:01:28.299 --> 00:01:31.200 at Hamden, I did a lot of things with Bennett 00:01:31.200 --> 00:01:35.280 and Soren. I was in the drama club. I was the 00:01:35.280 --> 00:01:39.659 president of Trium and NHS. And I did a lot of 00:01:39.659 --> 00:01:42.060 other little things. And I was valedictorian 00:01:42.060 --> 00:01:44.620 my last year, too. Just a few small things. Just 00:01:44.620 --> 00:01:47.700 nice for you little things. But, yeah. It's so 00:01:47.700 --> 00:01:50.219 nice to have you here. Yeah, thank you. My name 00:01:50.219 --> 00:01:53.500 is Bennett Mulholland. Anthony is my middle name. 00:01:54.519 --> 00:01:58.680 I'm 19. Also graduated with Sophie. I did a lot 00:01:58.680 --> 00:02:01.439 in high school. I guess like theater. I played 00:02:01.439 --> 00:02:03.379 a lot of sports. I played tennis, basketball. 00:02:03.819 --> 00:02:07.280 Was also in Tri -Am. I was also in NHS. Basically 00:02:07.280 --> 00:02:08.800 all the things that Sophie did, just a little 00:02:08.800 --> 00:02:12.020 less. Well, you did sports and I didn't do any 00:02:12.020 --> 00:02:13.900 sports. So yeah, it fills in the hole. Yeah. 00:02:14.000 --> 00:02:15.979 I just finished my first year at Southern Maine 00:02:15.979 --> 00:02:18.639 Community College and I'm transferring to USM 00:02:18.639 --> 00:02:21.349 next year for musical theater. Oh, cool. Thanks 00:02:21.349 --> 00:02:23.490 for having me. Oh, nice to have you here. For 00:02:23.490 --> 00:02:25.490 sure. For sure. Welcome, both of you. Thank you. 00:02:25.710 --> 00:02:28.930 Awesome sauce. Well, it's time to go around with 00:02:28.930 --> 00:02:32.889 our inspired insights on the theme of school 00:02:32.889 --> 00:02:37.509 and me having just graduated unofficially, graduating 00:02:37.509 --> 00:02:41.569 this Sunday. I would like to share and elaborate 00:02:41.569 --> 00:02:45.750 a little bit about my senior quote, which is 00:02:45.750 --> 00:02:51.090 a quote from Ovid. Omniamuntantor. Nirhil Interit, 00:02:51.250 --> 00:02:57.629 which is everything changes, nothing dies. Oh, 00:02:57.710 --> 00:03:02.930 I love that. Yeah. And I think in regards to 00:03:02.930 --> 00:03:06.310 my academic pursuit, what I found that quote 00:03:06.310 --> 00:03:11.449 to mean to me is that my sort of lust for learning 00:03:11.449 --> 00:03:15.909 and knowledge. and my zeal around education will 00:03:15.909 --> 00:03:19.830 always be changing. And the way I pursue education 00:03:19.830 --> 00:03:22.810 will always be changing as I'm no longer going 00:03:22.810 --> 00:03:24.110 to be in a high school setting and moving to 00:03:24.110 --> 00:03:26.509 a college setting. However, my passion for learning 00:03:26.509 --> 00:03:32.569 shall never die. Yeah. Bennett, if you could 00:03:32.569 --> 00:03:37.009 share. Yeah. Sophie, if you'd like to share. 00:03:38.349 --> 00:03:42.650 OK, I can share. I guess I'll share my big thing, 00:03:42.710 --> 00:03:46.050 which has been joy, which when I was in middle 00:03:46.050 --> 00:03:48.430 school, I had a teacher. I really struggled with 00:03:48.430 --> 00:03:50.969 anxiety for a really long time and like really 00:03:50.969 --> 00:03:54.629 heavy burnout. And I had this one teacher and 00:03:54.629 --> 00:03:55.969 she pulled me aside and she's like, Sophie, you 00:03:55.969 --> 00:03:58.960 have to choose joy. And ever since then, that's 00:03:58.960 --> 00:04:01.699 been my big driving factor through all of my 00:04:01.699 --> 00:04:04.960 time and why I chose to go into the arts and 00:04:04.960 --> 00:04:08.000 why I'm, you know, taking that route of no job 00:04:08.000 --> 00:04:10.900 security and choosing an academic field that 00:04:10.900 --> 00:04:15.960 is constantly changing. Yeah. Yeah. We talk about 00:04:15.960 --> 00:04:20.160 joy almost every episode. It is a near constantly. 00:04:21.300 --> 00:04:23.639 It is a repeating theme. And I want to make sure 00:04:23.639 --> 00:04:26.040 we get some time to come back to that insight, 00:04:26.120 --> 00:04:28.920 too. For sure. Do you need more time, Beto? Oh, 00:04:28.920 --> 00:04:30.939 no, no. I'm ready. I was ready. I did not want 00:04:30.939 --> 00:04:34.560 to be worse. Right. I don't know. My whole life, 00:04:34.579 --> 00:04:36.040 I was just kind of brought up on like working 00:04:36.040 --> 00:04:39.639 hard kind of and like trying to do the best you 00:04:39.639 --> 00:04:42.259 can while also doing the most that you can in 00:04:42.259 --> 00:04:45.220 a healthy way. So kind of like with what Sophie 00:04:45.220 --> 00:04:47.000 said about prioritizing joy, I think that's a 00:04:47.000 --> 00:04:49.480 really good thing to just like keep in mind because 00:04:49.480 --> 00:04:51.779 it's good to work hard and it's good to push 00:04:51.779 --> 00:04:53.639 yourself and to experience new things. But it's 00:04:53.639 --> 00:04:56.639 also important. to draw it back a little bit 00:04:56.639 --> 00:04:58.379 if you understand that that's taking a mental 00:04:58.379 --> 00:05:00.899 or physical toll on on you or your body so yeah 00:05:00.899 --> 00:05:05.420 rest yeah rest for sure um wise words for both 00:05:05.420 --> 00:05:08.120 of you as first year college students too i love 00:05:08.120 --> 00:05:12.500 that um my inspired insight is a quote and i 00:05:12.500 --> 00:05:17.079 had did not memorize it i am not an onstage kind 00:05:17.079 --> 00:05:21.360 of guy. So I will post the quote, but it is meaningful 00:05:21.360 --> 00:05:25.379 for me around Pride Month, which is, this is 00:05:25.379 --> 00:05:27.420 one of many episodes we've shot during Pride. 00:05:27.579 --> 00:05:32.800 And it's the 10 -year anniversary of an activist 00:05:32.800 --> 00:05:37.519 in South Carolina who ripped down the Confederate 00:05:37.519 --> 00:05:44.180 flag from that state chambers. sort of thinking 00:05:44.180 --> 00:05:48.800 about that idea of good trouble. And she was 00:05:48.800 --> 00:05:52.920 quoted in saying that this piece around we are 00:05:52.920 --> 00:05:55.319 living in trying times, these are challenging 00:05:55.319 --> 00:05:58.660 times, and these are times that require courage 00:05:58.660 --> 00:06:02.000 and bravery. And when we're stuck in those moments 00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:05.100 of trying to get our feet moving forward and 00:06:05.100 --> 00:06:09.279 act in courageous ways, she presses pause and 00:06:09.279 --> 00:06:11.819 thinks backwards about the people who sacrificed. 00:06:12.779 --> 00:06:15.079 for her to be here and do the things that she's 00:06:15.079 --> 00:06:18.319 doing. And that gives her the opportunity to 00:06:18.319 --> 00:06:20.920 think forward about who might follow in her steps. 00:06:21.199 --> 00:06:26.819 And so acting bravely feels like an urgent necessity 00:06:26.819 --> 00:06:32.079 for her. It gives thanks to those who came first. 00:06:32.240 --> 00:06:34.720 And it's thinking about the future generations 00:06:34.720 --> 00:06:38.500 that our acts of bravery today might be that 00:06:38.500 --> 00:06:41.120 which gives inspiration to the... Folks of tomorrow. 00:06:41.199 --> 00:06:43.420 So that was something that stuck with me as well. 00:06:43.819 --> 00:06:51.620 Yeah. So on this lovely episode, as now I've 00:06:51.620 --> 00:06:54.279 completed high school, along with these two lovely 00:06:54.279 --> 00:06:56.360 fellas. Can we just press pause on that for a 00:06:56.360 --> 00:06:59.139 second? You are done high school. It's true. 00:06:59.319 --> 00:07:03.540 Have you like processed that yet? To be honest, 00:07:03.720 --> 00:07:07.389 okay. So like emotionally, I've... Kind of felt 00:07:07.389 --> 00:07:10.069 nothing in regards to high school ending for 00:07:10.069 --> 00:07:12.990 me. I don't know if I've really like not processed 00:07:12.990 --> 00:07:17.550 it or I simply am apathetic towards my high school 00:07:17.550 --> 00:07:21.870 experience. Yeah. I think like I'm really pleased 00:07:21.870 --> 00:07:23.490 with my high school experience. I was thinking 00:07:23.490 --> 00:07:28.189 the other day, what do I regret not doing? And 00:07:28.189 --> 00:07:30.910 frankly, I think I did everything that I was 00:07:30.910 --> 00:07:36.420 interested in. At the same time, manage to pull 00:07:36.420 --> 00:07:38.259 it all off with, like, a relatively high degree 00:07:38.259 --> 00:07:41.500 of success. Yeah. Well, at the same time, putting 00:07:41.500 --> 00:07:43.879 in as minimal effort as necessary. Right, right. 00:07:44.639 --> 00:07:48.519 Right. So, I don't know. I'm sad that I'll not 00:07:48.519 --> 00:07:52.120 be able to do JCL or whoop anybody in Kirtaman 00:07:52.120 --> 00:07:57.660 anymore. Yeah. It's okay. You can come back and 00:07:57.660 --> 00:08:00.819 watch. I want to introduce it to Glasgow, actually. 00:08:01.319 --> 00:08:06.199 That would be what I was to say. But mainly, 00:08:06.360 --> 00:08:11.040 it's a sensation of sort of like empty hopefulness. 00:08:11.139 --> 00:08:12.839 Like, I don't really care about high school. 00:08:12.959 --> 00:08:16.240 I care about my future. Yeah, you've said things 00:08:16.240 --> 00:08:19.720 along those lines before. So does it feel like 00:08:19.720 --> 00:08:22.279 this whole graduation, like literal pop and circumstance 00:08:22.279 --> 00:08:26.620 is much ado about nothing? I think that the social 00:08:26.620 --> 00:08:30.529 utility of the pomp and circumstance. is to incentivize 00:08:30.529 --> 00:08:34.029 students to finish high school for like social 00:08:34.029 --> 00:08:36.289 clout reasons. Yeah. Right. Well, you literally 00:08:36.289 --> 00:08:39.190 march marching practices at the elementary school. 00:08:39.230 --> 00:08:42.230 Right. Sort of inspirational. Yeah. Yeah. And 00:08:42.230 --> 00:08:45.429 that in particular, I think, serves as sort of 00:08:45.429 --> 00:08:48.929 a propaganda piece for completing standardized 00:08:48.929 --> 00:08:51.610 education. The propaganda of graduation. I mean, 00:08:51.750 --> 00:08:54.210 it is. Yeah. Especially me. Like I was a trans. 00:08:54.809 --> 00:08:57.049 Well, I transferred from another town to Hamden. 00:08:57.090 --> 00:08:59.529 So going through that whole process, it meant 00:08:59.529 --> 00:09:00.929 something completely different to me because 00:09:00.929 --> 00:09:02.830 I didn't know any of these people and I was kind 00:09:02.830 --> 00:09:05.169 of going through their tradition. It was like 00:09:05.169 --> 00:09:08.950 very much like systematic. This is how we do 00:09:08.950 --> 00:09:10.409 things. So this is how you're going to graduate. 00:09:10.669 --> 00:09:13.110 Did it feel, I'm fascinated by this and we'll 00:09:13.110 --> 00:09:15.529 get to the topic. Did it feel sort of like this 00:09:15.529 --> 00:09:18.370 non -issue for both of you at this time last 00:09:18.370 --> 00:09:22.159 year as well? I was so ready. As much that you 00:09:22.159 --> 00:09:25.279 all did, like every sport you played, every production 00:09:25.279 --> 00:09:28.080 you were part of, it still was just like there 00:09:28.080 --> 00:09:30.519 was no sense of rite of passage. So basically 00:09:30.519 --> 00:09:34.080 since sophomore year, it was just like go, go, 00:09:34.120 --> 00:09:36.480 go, go, go all the time that by the time I got 00:09:36.480 --> 00:09:38.379 to the end of my senior year, I was kind of burned 00:09:38.379 --> 00:09:42.120 out. I was ready. I was ready to leave. But it 00:09:42.120 --> 00:09:44.419 took like a month or two for me to realize that 00:09:44.419 --> 00:09:46.679 I did actually kind of miss going back to school. 00:09:46.700 --> 00:09:49.070 And I've said multiple times that. If I had the 00:09:49.070 --> 00:09:50.929 chance to go through high school again, just 00:09:50.929 --> 00:09:53.850 like without homework, I definitely would. Because 00:09:53.850 --> 00:09:57.769 my friends, same. I definitely would. But you 00:09:57.769 --> 00:09:59.850 have to think about the friends that you made, 00:09:59.909 --> 00:10:02.009 the relationships created. Like half of the memories 00:10:02.009 --> 00:10:04.690 that I can think of in my life come from high 00:10:04.690 --> 00:10:06.570 school. And that's probably just because of the 00:10:06.570 --> 00:10:08.590 amount that I did in high school. But see, I 00:10:08.590 --> 00:10:10.929 miss experiencing those things for the first 00:10:10.929 --> 00:10:13.070 time. Well, and respectfully, it might also be 00:10:13.070 --> 00:10:16.309 a function of age and experience. You've been 00:10:16.309 --> 00:10:19.269 out for a year and then you had four years of 00:10:19.269 --> 00:10:21.850 some solid memories and activities to reflect 00:10:21.850 --> 00:10:25.429 on. There are probably, and I'm spitballing a 00:10:25.429 --> 00:10:29.789 bit, maybe five. There are five wake -ups that 00:10:29.789 --> 00:10:33.789 I remember that stick with me now in my 50th 00:10:33.789 --> 00:10:39.029 year. One of those wake -ups is the day after 00:10:39.029 --> 00:10:42.490 the project graduation. And just that sensation 00:10:42.490 --> 00:10:47.960 of never. Yeah. Again. Yeah. All done. And there, 00:10:48.019 --> 00:10:52.120 it was as much a sense of accomplishment, not 00:10:52.120 --> 00:10:54.139 because of the activities of the groups I was 00:10:54.139 --> 00:10:59.460 in. It was survival. Like. Yeah. Did it. Yep. 00:10:59.500 --> 00:11:03.940 Did it. 10 out of 10. Have to recommend it. Yeah. 00:11:04.039 --> 00:11:08.000 But. It's really great. Yeah. That was very much 00:11:08.000 --> 00:11:10.799 my experience too. Like I got to that end and. 00:11:11.210 --> 00:11:13.389 I was ready. It's done. And you just usually 00:11:13.389 --> 00:11:15.970 feel sorry. You feel like you survived. And you 00:11:15.970 --> 00:11:17.669 feel like you're ready to actually live your 00:11:17.669 --> 00:11:19.710 own life. You're not living the life that other 00:11:19.710 --> 00:11:21.809 people have wanted you to live. For you, right. 00:11:21.889 --> 00:11:24.370 Yeah, because, I mean, like, I never got to do 00:11:24.370 --> 00:11:28.169 my music and my acting during the school day. 00:11:28.269 --> 00:11:30.990 I mean, I went to chorus, but I never did my 00:11:30.990 --> 00:11:33.049 voice lessons during the day or, like, go to 00:11:33.049 --> 00:11:35.330 classes that really were about what I wanted 00:11:35.330 --> 00:11:37.210 to do. Yeah, because everything was after school, 00:11:37.309 --> 00:11:39.710 events, weekends. Same with sports. Yes, yeah. 00:11:40.090 --> 00:11:41.909 Which that's been my big thing this year was 00:11:41.909 --> 00:11:45.129 having this whole big realization of like I'm 00:11:45.129 --> 00:11:48.090 doing what I want. It was was a hobby in school 00:11:48.090 --> 00:11:50.370 now. So I have I actually have hobby time again 00:11:50.370 --> 00:11:53.269 and I have a life now that I don't have to like 00:11:53.269 --> 00:11:56.250 sacrifice for what I want to do and what I want. 00:11:56.309 --> 00:11:58.889 Yeah, that's an interesting perspective. OK, 00:11:59.029 --> 00:12:01.169 thanks for that. Thanks for entertaining that 00:12:01.169 --> 00:12:03.950 with me. Actually, in regards to the sensation 00:12:03.950 --> 00:12:07.549 of like loss one experiences after they leave 00:12:07.549 --> 00:12:11.480 high school, I think. All of us at this table 00:12:11.480 --> 00:12:15.820 have like a much brighter future past high school 00:12:15.820 --> 00:12:18.799 than our high school career, even though we've 00:12:18.799 --> 00:12:20.860 managed to achieve some quite illustrious things 00:12:20.860 --> 00:12:23.360 and accumulate some accolades from high school. 00:12:23.860 --> 00:12:26.779 And I think that the individuals like I've noticed 00:12:26.779 --> 00:12:31.120 a lot of, for example, jocular boys and like 00:12:31.120 --> 00:12:33.779 sort of this posse of girls at my school become 00:12:33.779 --> 00:12:38.759 extremely passionate about like the. sort of, 00:12:38.759 --> 00:12:40.659 like, traditions around leaving high school, 00:12:40.779 --> 00:12:44.480 and they seem to be mourning it a lot more. And 00:12:44.480 --> 00:12:47.899 I think that that is potentially indicative of 00:12:47.899 --> 00:12:50.039 them having peeped in high school. Oh, I knew 00:12:50.039 --> 00:12:53.080 you were going to say that. Did you tense up? 00:12:53.139 --> 00:12:55.139 Like, I just tensed up? I knew that's what you 00:12:55.139 --> 00:12:59.679 were going to say. We were talking about this 00:12:59.679 --> 00:13:02.240 before we even started the episode, too. Yeah. 00:13:02.480 --> 00:13:08.000 And unfortunately, you can tell. Yeah. I get 00:13:08.000 --> 00:13:10.059 that. You know, one of the taglines for this 00:13:10.059 --> 00:13:13.279 podcast is, you know, our best days are still 00:13:13.279 --> 00:13:17.379 ahead. And so that's just it's truly a mantra 00:13:17.379 --> 00:13:26.059 that I believe. And even 30, yeah, 30 something 00:13:26.059 --> 00:13:30.139 years ago when I graduated high school, I graduated 00:13:30.139 --> 00:13:33.799 with some of those folks, too, who we, you know, 00:13:33.799 --> 00:13:36.200 we knew they knew whether it was spoken or not. 00:13:37.039 --> 00:13:39.600 They were never going to leave. They were going 00:13:39.600 --> 00:13:43.340 to go work in the same place, factory, industry, 00:13:43.559 --> 00:13:49.779 taking over that family legacy. And due to other 00:13:49.779 --> 00:13:56.179 influences like socioeconomic and just straight 00:13:56.179 --> 00:14:00.779 out poverty, they had no other options. And so 00:14:00.779 --> 00:14:04.399 that's what I reflect on now. It reminds me of 00:14:04.399 --> 00:14:07.720 that Napoleon Dynamite. Character with throwing 00:14:07.720 --> 00:14:11.539 the football over the moon. Anytime I think peaked 00:14:11.539 --> 00:14:16.139 in high school, that is. Yeah. Yeah. So I get 00:14:16.139 --> 00:14:19.519 that that morning, to use your word, like looks 00:14:19.519 --> 00:14:22.820 maybe different based on the experience of not 00:14:22.820 --> 00:14:25.860 only what you've done backwards retrospectively, 00:14:25.940 --> 00:14:28.220 but what you're planning forward. And if you're 00:14:28.220 --> 00:14:31.960 not planning for much, these are probably the 00:14:31.960 --> 00:14:34.799 days that you'll miss the most. Right. Yeah. 00:14:35.220 --> 00:14:38.740 100%. no yeah that was definitely I that was 00:14:38.740 --> 00:14:42.220 what I always hated that that idea of being stuck 00:14:42.220 --> 00:14:44.559 here and like getting out and that being my time 00:14:44.559 --> 00:14:47.039 to be free and what they're telling me is like 00:14:47.039 --> 00:14:48.860 the whole time going through high school they're 00:14:48.860 --> 00:14:50.799 like this is the last time you'll be a minor 00:14:50.799 --> 00:14:52.500 this is the last time you'll be like free to 00:14:52.500 --> 00:14:54.139 do everything and I have to worry about adult 00:14:54.139 --> 00:14:56.279 things and it's like but I kind of want to worry 00:14:56.279 --> 00:14:58.980 about adult things not all the time but like 00:14:58.980 --> 00:15:01.820 I get to actually have an opinion about it and 00:15:02.600 --> 00:15:05.639 make my own way and well this is exactly why 00:15:05.639 --> 00:15:08.779 Soren invited both you to be part of this conversation 00:15:08.779 --> 00:15:14.620 is thinking about other colleagues of Soren that 00:15:14.620 --> 00:15:19.700 like Soren are regardless of effort I just want 00:15:19.700 --> 00:15:24.539 to caveat back regardless of effort high achieving 00:15:24.539 --> 00:15:32.159 driven motivated Lots of interests, lots of hobbies 00:15:32.159 --> 00:15:36.139 and skills. And with that comes a lot of pressure, 00:15:36.320 --> 00:15:41.580 whether it's internalized or placed upon you. 00:15:41.659 --> 00:15:43.700 And so this was, I think, a really this was a 00:15:43.700 --> 00:15:45.559 conversation you and I even started talking about 00:15:45.559 --> 00:15:49.960 in season two about this idea of what does success 00:15:49.960 --> 00:15:54.220 look and feel like for a young person? And there's 00:15:54.220 --> 00:15:58.000 so much. stereotype and stigma about kids these 00:15:58.000 --> 00:16:03.299 days. And the three of you at this table represent 00:16:03.299 --> 00:16:07.919 both kids these days and really passionate, driven, 00:16:08.179 --> 00:16:12.740 high achieving young people. And then what comes 00:16:12.740 --> 00:16:14.899 with that? You know, then you think about at 00:16:14.899 --> 00:16:18.039 what cost. Yeah. If I were to go back, I've been 00:16:18.039 --> 00:16:20.240 thinking about this a lot this year, especially 00:16:20.240 --> 00:16:23.019 in like doing all my new classes and everything. 00:16:23.639 --> 00:16:26.320 If I went back to high school, I would not have 00:16:26.320 --> 00:16:28.980 strived so much to be valedictorian. And I probably 00:16:28.980 --> 00:16:32.259 wouldn't have because I was valedictorian in 00:16:32.259 --> 00:16:35.019 middle school, in a very, very small middle school. 00:16:35.279 --> 00:16:37.759 And so you were very much like climbing a ladder. 00:16:37.840 --> 00:16:39.100 And once you were at the top, you had to like 00:16:39.100 --> 00:16:41.740 hold your position down. And it was like you 00:16:41.740 --> 00:16:46.039 sacrifice everything for your academic external 00:16:46.039 --> 00:16:50.259 achievements. You have to, your worth and your 00:16:50.259 --> 00:16:56.330 success is what external. Did you know at some 00:16:56.330 --> 00:16:58.509 point, at some point in your high school career, 00:16:58.590 --> 00:17:02.629 did you consciously say, I have a goal and my 00:17:02.629 --> 00:17:05.990 goal is to be graduating top of my class? Yeah, 00:17:05.990 --> 00:17:08.670 I think it was, I think it was right when I got 00:17:08.670 --> 00:17:10.690 there. It was something that I was like, I'm 00:17:10.690 --> 00:17:13.210 new to this environment and I really want to, 00:17:13.230 --> 00:17:16.279 you know, I was like, I... At first, I thought 00:17:16.279 --> 00:17:18.319 it was I had to be. It was for a long time. It 00:17:18.319 --> 00:17:21.119 was very negative. And it was it was really not 00:17:21.119 --> 00:17:24.140 until I actually achieved it that I was like, 00:17:24.279 --> 00:17:28.519 OK, I wanted to do that. But I sacrificed so 00:17:28.519 --> 00:17:31.359 much for that that I don't think I would have 00:17:31.359 --> 00:17:33.059 done it again. And if I had to go back to high 00:17:33.059 --> 00:17:36.039 school, first of all, I would not be happy. Second 00:17:36.039 --> 00:17:38.599 of all, I think. I would have tried a lot less 00:17:38.599 --> 00:17:41.579 and I would have passed my classes minimum and 00:17:41.579 --> 00:17:44.599 done what I wanted more. I agree. I would do 00:17:44.599 --> 00:17:48.859 the same thing. Yeah. Even with sports? Sports? 00:17:50.819 --> 00:17:53.660 Yeah, probably, actually. I was thinking in my 00:17:53.660 --> 00:17:55.279 head, I was like, no, I'd probably still work 00:17:55.279 --> 00:17:58.460 as hard. But if I had to go back, like we're 00:17:58.460 --> 00:18:01.339 talking about, I probably wouldn't try as hard. 00:18:01.380 --> 00:18:03.859 Like in tennis, I tried so hard every single 00:18:03.859 --> 00:18:06.960 match in tennis. get really down on myself if 00:18:06.960 --> 00:18:09.619 I'd like lose a match or like even lose a game 00:18:09.619 --> 00:18:11.619 and there's a lot of games in a match of tennis 00:18:11.619 --> 00:18:15.480 so it was really easy for me to get down on myself 00:18:15.480 --> 00:18:18.400 when I was in high school like with my sports 00:18:18.400 --> 00:18:21.700 so I feel like if I went back with the knowledge 00:18:21.700 --> 00:18:24.740 I have now I probably wouldn't try as hard because 00:18:24.740 --> 00:18:28.059 I would know that that would maybe bring a negative 00:18:28.059 --> 00:18:31.960 experience onto me again Do you guys feel that 00:18:31.960 --> 00:18:34.839 the pressure that was propelling you guys to 00:18:34.839 --> 00:18:38.299 achieve so highly was internally or externally 00:18:38.299 --> 00:18:41.240 derived? And more specifically, where do you 00:18:41.240 --> 00:18:44.380 think it was coming from? For me? Go ahead. For 00:18:44.380 --> 00:18:48.119 me, definitely internally. Obviously, my parents, 00:18:48.180 --> 00:18:51.099 my friends wanted me to succeed and thrive, but 00:18:51.099 --> 00:18:56.099 never to the point that I had in my own head. 00:18:56.279 --> 00:18:59.450 So we started the episode off, I... started talking 00:18:59.450 --> 00:19:01.329 about like working hard and like pushing myself 00:19:01.329 --> 00:19:04.230 I did that in like a very unhealthy way in high 00:19:04.230 --> 00:19:07.490 school and like going to college and living by 00:19:07.490 --> 00:19:09.809 myself and like having my own freedom really 00:19:09.809 --> 00:19:14.430 showed me that I did that negatively and it did 00:19:14.430 --> 00:19:19.009 take a toll on me in high school so yeah yeah 00:19:19.009 --> 00:19:22.230 no definitely I think so too I think the more 00:19:22.230 --> 00:19:24.930 widely known because especially near the end 00:19:24.930 --> 00:19:26.509 when everyone was like oh you're top of your 00:19:26.509 --> 00:19:28.349 class oh you're close to being top of your class 00:19:28.349 --> 00:19:30.109 and I was getting all these achievements and 00:19:30.109 --> 00:19:33.869 everything I definitely felt like it was it was 00:19:33.869 --> 00:19:35.910 not like you have to be this way but it was like 00:19:35.910 --> 00:19:38.710 this social expectation of being there and like 00:19:38.710 --> 00:19:41.930 you are that and if I'm not that oh it's just 00:19:41.930 --> 00:19:44.819 like okay yeah it you know it's like Kind of 00:19:44.819 --> 00:19:47.099 that social disappointment for you, like the 00:19:47.099 --> 00:19:49.960 pity if you're not there, which I've never, ever 00:19:49.960 --> 00:19:52.400 been able to take socially. And what I'm hearing 00:19:52.400 --> 00:19:57.400 both of you say, I think, is 100 % or close to 00:19:57.400 --> 00:20:00.920 100 % of that pressure and drive was you both 00:20:00.920 --> 00:20:04.380 internally. You didn't have people like, back 00:20:04.380 --> 00:20:07.240 to your room, keep practicing, keep studying, 00:20:07.319 --> 00:20:09.859 don't come out until you've put in six hours. 00:20:10.039 --> 00:20:13.380 My mom said, please get a B. My mom told me to 00:20:13.380 --> 00:20:15.380 sleep. She was like, Bennett, go to sleep. And 00:20:15.380 --> 00:20:17.099 I'm like, but I have to do my homework. I have 00:20:17.099 --> 00:20:18.839 to study my lines. I have to do this and this 00:20:18.839 --> 00:20:20.480 and this and this. Yeah, it was a lot. And that 00:20:20.480 --> 00:20:23.779 was really what the breaking point was for me. 00:20:23.819 --> 00:20:27.480 My parents honestly were worried about how much 00:20:27.480 --> 00:20:28.900 I was putting in. And they're like, you need 00:20:28.900 --> 00:20:30.799 to stop. And that's where the whole idea of joy 00:20:30.799 --> 00:20:33.440 came in. Trying to connect me with that teacher 00:20:33.440 --> 00:20:36.680 because I was just, I could not get past it. 00:20:37.119 --> 00:20:39.839 And now being in a place, I see how detrimental 00:20:39.839 --> 00:20:42.500 that is because you set those habits in and then 00:20:42.500 --> 00:20:44.720 your whole life you're thinking that's how you 00:20:44.720 --> 00:20:47.839 get your validation. And has it changed the way 00:20:47.839 --> 00:20:50.480 you've approached now secondary education? Like 00:20:50.480 --> 00:20:53.599 the way you're approaching classes or extracurriculars? 00:20:54.079 --> 00:20:56.809 100%. Yeah, at least. Yeah. Before, if I got 00:20:56.809 --> 00:20:59.789 anything under like a 96, I'd be in my teacher's 00:20:59.789 --> 00:21:01.890 office being like, how can I help improve this? 00:21:01.970 --> 00:21:06.609 How can I improve? And now I got like a 70 on 00:21:06.609 --> 00:21:08.750 one of my science tests. I'm not a scientist. 00:21:08.809 --> 00:21:11.690 And I was like, fine, that's okay. And I still 00:21:11.690 --> 00:21:15.549 had all As for that semester because it's one 00:21:15.549 --> 00:21:18.710 part of the greater whole, which I never was 00:21:18.710 --> 00:21:21.190 able to grasp. So here's the crow I'm about to 00:21:21.190 --> 00:21:27.259 eat. For the past year and a half -ish, I have 00:21:27.259 --> 00:21:31.779 criticized and taunted my co -host over there. 00:21:33.319 --> 00:21:40.059 Because daily there's conversations about, as 00:21:40.059 --> 00:21:44.259 minimal effort, I'll catch up, you know, I'll 00:21:44.259 --> 00:21:46.539 pull it together for the last month and a half. 00:21:47.559 --> 00:21:52.220 And Soren does it every time. And what I'm hearing 00:21:52.220 --> 00:21:54.720 you both say is maybe Soren's on to something. 00:21:54.900 --> 00:22:00.759 Maybe Soren had something figured out that we, 00:22:00.819 --> 00:22:03.940 because I was a high achieving, nowhere near, 00:22:04.059 --> 00:22:09.220 I was top 10, not maybe 10%, not number one. 00:22:10.620 --> 00:22:13.799 Grades and extracurriculars and all of that stuff 00:22:13.799 --> 00:22:16.359 was very important to me. And nobody was saying, 00:22:16.420 --> 00:22:20.480 you better, you need to. It was 100 % self -derived. 00:22:21.339 --> 00:22:27.059 And the kids like Soren drove me bonkers because 00:22:27.059 --> 00:22:31.759 I was like nose to grind to try to memorize, 00:22:31.920 --> 00:22:36.440 to try to perform. And Soren will waltz in, crack 00:22:36.440 --> 00:22:38.619 open the book for literally the first time and 00:22:38.619 --> 00:22:42.700 ace it. It is something that I, I've realized 00:22:42.700 --> 00:22:46.799 over this year is that you like doing a lot of 00:22:46.799 --> 00:22:48.579 Alexander technique is actually something that 00:22:48.579 --> 00:22:50.700 I learned a lot this year. And it's about finding 00:22:50.700 --> 00:22:54.119 the flow state and being as minimal as possible, 00:22:54.200 --> 00:22:56.960 but executing the highest you can be physically. 00:22:57.140 --> 00:22:59.740 But I think it goes a lot towards mental stuff 00:22:59.740 --> 00:23:02.180 too, and like preparing for performance. And 00:23:02.180 --> 00:23:04.599 it really is about going back to your absolute 00:23:04.599 --> 00:23:07.819 like base level. And I think it serves for academics 00:23:07.819 --> 00:23:10.839 too, because like. I was that person who was 00:23:10.839 --> 00:23:13.880 nose to the grind every, every day. And I honestly 00:23:13.880 --> 00:23:17.220 did worse when I prepared like that. And so because 00:23:17.220 --> 00:23:19.680 you're not, you're tiring yourself out before 00:23:19.680 --> 00:23:23.839 you can even get there. And like the system that 00:23:23.839 --> 00:23:26.740 is built around education and what is expected 00:23:26.740 --> 00:23:30.920 for you and what academics is, is not an accurate 00:23:30.920 --> 00:23:34.079 representation of what. a regular person can 00:23:34.079 --> 00:23:36.900 perform because you're expected to have a hundred 00:23:36.900 --> 00:23:38.859 percent you're expected to know everything or 00:23:38.859 --> 00:23:41.859 that's what you think you're expected right to 00:23:41.859 --> 00:23:45.279 know but it's you actually have to think and 00:23:45.279 --> 00:23:47.640 people that are highly intelligent enough to 00:23:47.640 --> 00:23:51.920 push past that and just walk in i mean like my 00:23:51.920 --> 00:23:55.819 greatest tests yeah but half the time i was also 00:23:55.819 --> 00:23:59.750 just trying to fit into that system I owe Soren 00:23:59.750 --> 00:24:03.029 an apology. I'd like to actually touch on the 00:24:03.029 --> 00:24:06.609 dynamic between like intrinsic and extrinsic 00:24:06.609 --> 00:24:09.829 motivation. Like you guys are extremely high 00:24:09.829 --> 00:24:12.470 achievers because you're intrinsically motivated 00:24:12.470 --> 00:24:16.690 to do so. And you push yourself for that. I think 00:24:16.690 --> 00:24:20.289 I am frankly severely lacking in any amount of 00:24:20.289 --> 00:24:23.980 intrinsic motivation. If I had no external pressure 00:24:23.980 --> 00:24:28.279 coming from my mother or like... Hard stop there. 00:24:28.440 --> 00:24:32.259 My mother, period. Or like my desire to succeed 00:24:32.259 --> 00:24:34.720 amongst my classmates. Frankly, I would do zero 00:24:34.720 --> 00:24:37.380 homework and I'd flunk out of school. Except 00:24:37.380 --> 00:24:39.480 at the same time, I really enjoy school. Like 00:24:39.480 --> 00:24:41.819 I like learning. So school was something that 00:24:41.819 --> 00:24:43.559 was extremely rewarding for me to show up to 00:24:43.559 --> 00:24:48.180 every day. But I think that is almost equivalently 00:24:48.180 --> 00:24:52.099 to my detriment as... being extremely motivated 00:24:52.099 --> 00:24:55.440 intrinsically, right? And actually, something 00:24:55.440 --> 00:24:59.500 that I've noticed in my classes is sort of like 00:24:59.500 --> 00:25:02.839 a competition for nonchalance, at least among 00:25:02.839 --> 00:25:11.380 the... That cohort. In particular, my cousin 00:25:11.380 --> 00:25:16.279 and one of his really good friends. And also, 00:25:16.359 --> 00:25:19.019 I see it in myself as well. Like, we are all... 00:25:19.279 --> 00:25:22.099 relatively intelligent, I would say. And sort 00:25:22.099 --> 00:25:24.640 of an indicator of our intelligence to each other 00:25:24.640 --> 00:25:28.160 is how little effort we can put in while also 00:25:28.160 --> 00:25:31.839 performing at a baseline, right? Like, I have 00:25:31.839 --> 00:25:34.140 often found myself bragging about not studying 00:25:34.140 --> 00:25:36.019 at all for APs and then getting fines on all 00:25:36.019 --> 00:25:39.420 of them. Do you talk about it? Like, is it something 00:25:39.420 --> 00:25:42.359 out loud you will say, how little did you, and 00:25:42.359 --> 00:25:46.440 I'm paraphrasing. Well, oftentimes as a humble 00:25:46.440 --> 00:25:49.730 brag. People, and I myself included, in this 00:25:49.730 --> 00:25:51.650 will say, oh, yeah, I didn't study for that. 00:25:51.809 --> 00:25:54.230 Yeah. Or like, oh, yeah, I haven't done any work. 00:25:54.529 --> 00:25:56.970 I would be like, oh, there were times and be 00:25:56.970 --> 00:25:58.450 like, yeah, I didn't study that much. And then 00:25:58.450 --> 00:26:01.529 I was up for it. Yeah. I'd be home at like three 00:26:01.529 --> 00:26:03.809 and then study until like. Just to like fit in 00:26:03.809 --> 00:26:06.970 with that vibe of. Right. Because I also like 00:26:06.970 --> 00:26:09.349 it was that vibe of like when I did try hard 00:26:09.349 --> 00:26:12.289 and was openly try hard. It was the thing. You're 00:26:12.289 --> 00:26:15.430 a try hard. That becomes a negative thing. Yeah. 00:26:15.549 --> 00:26:20.529 Really? Yeah. This is fascinating to me. So there's 00:26:20.529 --> 00:26:25.630 this among the high achieving high schoolers, 00:26:25.730 --> 00:26:32.410 there's this sort of subset of those who can 00:26:32.410 --> 00:26:37.910 try the least but succeed the most. There's like 00:26:37.910 --> 00:26:40.789 a badge of honor around that. Yes. I think that 00:26:40.789 --> 00:26:43.210 lends the most clout because then it's like, 00:26:43.329 --> 00:26:48.000 oh. Naturally, I tell you this. I need not put 00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:51.480 an effort to succeed. I'm superior to you. Right. 00:26:51.519 --> 00:26:53.980 So maybe like, again, thinking of sports and 00:26:53.980 --> 00:26:58.140 music. So that might be the singer who just has 00:26:58.140 --> 00:27:02.220 perfect pitch and doesn't need to run the vocal 00:27:02.220 --> 00:27:05.559 Olympics kind of stuff or the tennis player who 00:27:05.559 --> 00:27:08.779 naturally hits 105 mile per hour serve and doesn't 00:27:08.779 --> 00:27:12.519 need to like be out there. hour after hour. It's 00:27:12.519 --> 00:27:15.019 the natural ability or natural intelligence. 00:27:15.339 --> 00:27:18.859 Yeah. Which, oh, go ahead. And I think, too, 00:27:19.019 --> 00:27:23.660 like, intelligence serves you, but so does hard 00:27:23.660 --> 00:27:27.160 work and is, I think, the most potent combination 00:27:27.160 --> 00:27:30.420 when you have them together, right? I'm going 00:27:30.420 --> 00:27:32.500 to remind you that you said that at some point 00:27:32.500 --> 00:27:35.359 in the near future, that it does take both. I 00:27:35.359 --> 00:27:38.940 can scrape along putting in no effort. I can. 00:27:39.099 --> 00:27:42.950 Yeah. Is that fantastic for me? And does that 00:27:42.950 --> 00:27:47.670 result in the result that I would want? Probably 00:27:47.670 --> 00:27:51.910 not. Well, it's probably, my guess, having not 00:27:51.910 --> 00:27:56.009 been to the colleges that you explored and are 00:27:56.009 --> 00:27:59.789 going to, my guess is what passed at the high 00:27:59.789 --> 00:28:05.250 school level may not pass at the... collegiate 00:28:05.250 --> 00:28:08.269 level right and so maybe that's where that balance 00:28:08.269 --> 00:28:10.329 comes in I'm thinking that you both are talking 00:28:10.329 --> 00:28:15.089 about is recognizing that okay my parents can't 00:28:15.089 --> 00:28:19.349 email my teacher anymore and get the assignment 00:28:19.349 --> 00:28:22.230 sent directly to my parent to then hold over 00:28:22.230 --> 00:28:26.589 my head at home and so scraping by at the college 00:28:26.589 --> 00:28:29.930 level may be a bit more of a roll of the dice 00:28:29.930 --> 00:28:33.339 I yeah definitely that was The biggest thing 00:28:33.339 --> 00:28:36.700 that I got from being so self like internally 00:28:36.700 --> 00:28:39.680 motivated and I was always my own advocate was 00:28:39.680 --> 00:28:41.640 that then I got to college and that's what everyone 00:28:41.640 --> 00:28:44.220 expected already. So I could fall back on that 00:28:44.220 --> 00:28:47.579 original like habitual structure of how I pre 00:28:47.579 --> 00:28:50.299 -academics but take off a lot of the effort and 00:28:50.299 --> 00:28:53.519 still perform. Honestly, I think I've understood 00:28:53.519 --> 00:28:57.039 material more when I'm trying less and like I 00:28:57.039 --> 00:28:59.779 think my performance has been better since that. 00:28:59.980 --> 00:29:04.170 But yeah. Interesting. So that pressure to try, 00:29:04.289 --> 00:29:06.609 as we're talking about it, the memorization, 00:29:06.849 --> 00:29:09.369 the cramming, the note -taking, the flashcards, 00:29:09.589 --> 00:29:12.430 that actually detracts from the actual learning 00:29:12.430 --> 00:29:16.670 and internalizing the... You've been on to something, 00:29:16.769 --> 00:29:19.970 my friend. Yeah. Well, I think academics was 00:29:19.970 --> 00:29:23.220 not an emotional pursuit. He is so clinical. 00:29:23.539 --> 00:29:27.859 Yeah. As I've said, I think in many an episode, 00:29:28.119 --> 00:29:32.680 the more we allow our emotions to dominate our 00:29:32.680 --> 00:29:37.079 mind, the less our logical faculties are able 00:29:37.079 --> 00:29:39.480 to dictate our decisions and thoughts. Right. 00:29:40.440 --> 00:29:43.500 Which is sort of led to my cold, detached outlook 00:29:43.500 --> 00:29:47.380 on life. But at the same time, I think it's important, 00:29:47.680 --> 00:29:51.089 especially in like. competitive environments 00:29:51.089 --> 00:29:53.930 in which we're sort of like vying for both social 00:29:53.930 --> 00:29:57.549 attention and like personal success um that we 00:29:57.549 --> 00:30:00.069 leave our emotions out of it because although 00:30:00.069 --> 00:30:03.329 our emotions provide motivators they can also 00:30:03.329 --> 00:30:07.349 be to our detriment right even uh in a lot of 00:30:07.349 --> 00:30:09.750 the acting training that i've done this year 00:30:09.750 --> 00:30:12.470 in the music training it's all about getting 00:30:12.470 --> 00:30:15.109 very clinical and very emotionally detached before 00:30:15.109 --> 00:30:18.019 you bring the emotions back in Because you're 00:30:18.019 --> 00:30:20.599 not, you're supposed to have a mechanism that 00:30:20.599 --> 00:30:22.500 will work and that will present something to 00:30:22.500 --> 00:30:24.980 the audience that will then elicit an emotional 00:30:24.980 --> 00:30:27.539 response from them. But you yourself should not 00:30:27.539 --> 00:30:31.299 be sacrificing emotions at your own, because 00:30:31.299 --> 00:30:34.380 you leave a part of your soul on with whatever 00:30:34.380 --> 00:30:37.480 production you're doing. Right. If you don't 00:30:37.480 --> 00:30:40.759 take care of yourself and set the clinical system 00:30:40.759 --> 00:30:44.799 first. Yeah. Well, I, what I keep. The word in 00:30:44.799 --> 00:30:47.000 my brain that keeps flashing like a neon sign 00:30:47.000 --> 00:30:49.660 is balance. Like what I hear all three of you 00:30:49.660 --> 00:30:56.160 talking about is a need for balance, that a balance 00:30:56.160 --> 00:30:59.920 of motivations, a balance of joy plus the clinical 00:30:59.920 --> 00:31:03.460 aspects, dissecting your craft in a way that 00:31:03.460 --> 00:31:06.099 you didn't get to do in your high school career, 00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:10.579 and you kind of exploring what balance looks 00:31:10.579 --> 00:31:13.750 like. for just rest, right? And not driving your 00:31:13.750 --> 00:31:16.029 body to a state of exhaustion night after night 00:31:16.029 --> 00:31:19.650 after night. Right. To quote our former Latin 00:31:19.650 --> 00:31:23.269 teacher quoting Epicurus, moderatio in omnibus. 00:31:23.529 --> 00:31:26.369 Which means? Moderation in all things. Yeah. 00:31:26.549 --> 00:31:31.690 I translated that one. Yeah. Oh, yeah. What are 00:31:31.690 --> 00:31:34.210 you reflecting at all about? Like, are you thinking 00:31:34.210 --> 00:31:37.349 about what happens, like what switches in the 00:31:37.349 --> 00:31:40.369 fall when you're in another country? Yeah. Like 00:31:40.369 --> 00:31:43.660 what? does balance look like for you going forward 00:31:43.660 --> 00:31:47.859 or maybe you don't know yet I think I have never 00:31:47.859 --> 00:31:51.759 been an individual who embraces balance yes I 00:31:51.759 --> 00:31:57.059 am extreme to the utmost in all things yeah I 00:31:57.059 --> 00:32:00.700 either fully do something or I don't do it at 00:32:00.700 --> 00:32:06.640 all. Well, and add to that, in episode five, 00:32:06.779 --> 00:32:09.259 when we were talking about our Myers -Briggs, 00:32:09.559 --> 00:32:15.019 you talked a lot about thriving or being driven 00:32:15.019 --> 00:32:20.980 by the chaos. The more urgent the deadline times 00:32:20.980 --> 00:32:24.460 the least amount of preparation you've done. 00:32:25.839 --> 00:32:29.940 You thrive in that environment. It's true. So 00:32:29.940 --> 00:32:34.900 I think next year I am going to likely jump headlong 00:32:34.900 --> 00:32:40.099 into the social structures of college and the 00:32:40.099 --> 00:32:45.539 academic pursuits and my interests. But I am 00:32:45.539 --> 00:32:47.700 not certain that I'll be able to jump headlong 00:32:47.700 --> 00:32:52.180 into the labor that those things entail. Do you 00:32:52.180 --> 00:32:55.859 have any... I know like anxiousness would not 00:32:55.859 --> 00:32:59.380 be an emotion that you would typically reflect 00:32:59.380 --> 00:33:03.180 on. But does it when you like hearing you as 00:33:03.180 --> 00:33:07.819 you say those words, I channel your parents and 00:33:07.819 --> 00:33:13.400 go like that makes me extremely nervous. You 00:33:13.400 --> 00:33:18.740 know, I reckon such things are to be worried 00:33:18.740 --> 00:33:22.359 about by me in three months. I wish I had that 00:33:22.359 --> 00:33:28.880 skill. Yeah, I have a lease next year or for 00:33:28.880 --> 00:33:31.160 the next fall and I'm already worried about it. 00:33:31.180 --> 00:33:32.819 I'm like, okay, am I going to leave the stove 00:33:32.819 --> 00:33:37.359 on? I can't even imagine going to another country. 00:33:37.440 --> 00:33:43.359 I'd be like... I'm curious. I truly feel no emotional 00:33:43.359 --> 00:33:46.400 burden from having late work. Like it does not 00:33:46.400 --> 00:33:50.740 weigh on me. And the burden is actually doing 00:33:50.740 --> 00:33:55.779 it. I wonder, both of you, is it more labor intensive 00:33:55.779 --> 00:33:59.539 to ignore late work or do it for you? Are we 00:33:59.539 --> 00:34:02.460 talking about high school or collegiate? I think 00:34:02.460 --> 00:34:04.460 that's a really good question. Because I have 00:34:04.460 --> 00:34:06.140 two different answers for both of them. Yeah. 00:34:07.039 --> 00:34:13.019 Hollage, I think it's honestly less of like a 00:34:13.019 --> 00:34:19.519 strenuous activity. To just let it be late. For 00:34:19.519 --> 00:34:23.280 me personally, I had, you know, coming from high 00:34:23.280 --> 00:34:25.739 school and like working so hard and, you know, 00:34:25.739 --> 00:34:29.840 taking rest into account. I did have a couple 00:34:29.840 --> 00:34:31.340 of late assignments throughout the year, as one 00:34:31.340 --> 00:34:33.440 would more in the second semester than the first. 00:34:33.739 --> 00:34:37.679 But having those late assignments didn't stress 00:34:37.679 --> 00:34:39.699 me out and affect me emotionally the way that 00:34:39.699 --> 00:34:43.619 it did in high school. And again, I. went into 00:34:43.619 --> 00:34:48.380 SMCC as a criminal justice major. And I was there 00:34:48.380 --> 00:34:50.719 for a week sitting in this dining hall, not dining 00:34:50.719 --> 00:34:53.380 hall, this lecture hall. And I was like, I don't 00:34:53.380 --> 00:34:57.079 want to do this. So I put plans together to transfer 00:34:57.079 --> 00:35:01.380 to USM for musical theater. And it's, I was basically 00:35:01.380 --> 00:35:04.920 a liberal arts student when I went to SMCC. So 00:35:04.920 --> 00:35:07.219 I just took a bunch of gen eds. just a bunch 00:35:07.219 --> 00:35:09.039 of classes that didn't matter, intro to literature, 00:35:09.179 --> 00:35:11.960 intro to business. But the credits transfer and 00:35:11.960 --> 00:35:17.179 count. Right, right. So for me, knowing that 00:35:17.179 --> 00:35:21.420 I didn't need to try my utmost hardest on these 00:35:21.420 --> 00:35:24.800 beginner level classes, I was able to like step 00:35:24.800 --> 00:35:26.659 back and be a little bit more lenient on late 00:35:26.659 --> 00:35:30.679 work and be able to put real adult activities 00:35:30.679 --> 00:35:33.920 that actually matter to me in my life over doing 00:35:33.920 --> 00:35:37.469 a random assignment that, would take me an hour 00:35:37.469 --> 00:35:38.789 and a half that I'd never think about again. 00:35:38.969 --> 00:35:42.489 Yeah. But in high school, it's entirely different 00:35:42.489 --> 00:35:46.250 for me. I would, I maybe had like five late assignments 00:35:46.250 --> 00:35:48.730 my entire high school career. Yep. Because I 00:35:48.730 --> 00:35:52.489 was just, I was, I was unable to do that. I, 00:35:52.489 --> 00:35:56.769 five. I'm, I'm kind of have the opposite situation. 00:35:56.849 --> 00:35:59.030 Like knowing where I've sinned five one time. 00:35:59.289 --> 00:36:05.000 Yeah. Yeah. I'm like. Yeah. Tweaking. Some of 00:36:05.000 --> 00:36:08.760 it is a lot. And I hate this word I'm going to 00:36:08.760 --> 00:36:10.980 use, but I can't think of another one. Some of 00:36:10.980 --> 00:36:14.920 it for me feels like consequence, right? What's 00:36:14.920 --> 00:36:19.659 the consequence? So in one setting, the consequence 00:36:19.659 --> 00:36:22.659 might be some finger wagging, an email home, 00:36:22.920 --> 00:36:26.059 a reduction of a couple points on the paper, 00:36:26.139 --> 00:36:30.760 and a nagging parent who is going to be on your 00:36:30.760 --> 00:36:35.690 case. At the college level, the consequence might 00:36:35.690 --> 00:36:38.710 be a zero and you're moved on to the next week 00:36:38.710 --> 00:36:43.809 of assignments. And as somebody who teaches at 00:36:43.809 --> 00:36:51.269 four schools currently, I'm very clear with my 00:36:51.269 --> 00:36:55.369 students at all of those schools what the consequence 00:36:55.369 --> 00:37:00.480 is for late work. If the student is not communicating 00:37:00.480 --> 00:37:04.539 with me and saying, I know this is due, can I 00:37:04.539 --> 00:37:07.019 have an extension, which I 100 % of the time 00:37:07.019 --> 00:37:09.699 give, in the absence of the communication, which 00:37:09.699 --> 00:37:14.019 is the adult skill we're trying to model, a zero. 00:37:14.119 --> 00:37:16.239 And we move on to the next, like, I don't accept 00:37:16.239 --> 00:37:21.460 the late work. If the number grade, what I have 00:37:21.460 --> 00:37:24.880 learned about today's college student, typical 00:37:24.880 --> 00:37:29.670 college student, the number on the... paper doesn't 00:37:29.670 --> 00:37:34.570 matter as much about as compared to did I earn 00:37:34.570 --> 00:37:38.369 those three credits like the GPA aside did I 00:37:38.369 --> 00:37:42.989 at least get a 70 blank so that these three credits 00:37:42.989 --> 00:37:48.869 aren't wasted and if the credit is the goal and 00:37:48.869 --> 00:37:53.429 the grade the GPA is not the goal then that baseline 00:37:53.429 --> 00:37:57.400 of what performance looks like If bare bones 00:37:57.400 --> 00:38:02.760 is here, the C grade might be here. And I am 00:38:02.760 --> 00:38:06.019 constantly, and I shouldn't be at this point 00:38:06.019 --> 00:38:08.579 because I've been teaching a long time. It's, 00:38:08.619 --> 00:38:14.179 I feel like I have students who week one absolutely 00:38:14.179 --> 00:38:19.199 know, have figured out how many blanks they can 00:38:19.199 --> 00:38:22.960 have in their grade book. To still earn the 70 00:38:22.960 --> 00:38:25.880 something to get the three credits in the bank. 00:38:26.159 --> 00:38:30.039 Yep. And that's exactly what they do. Yep. More 00:38:30.039 --> 00:38:33.320 energy is spent figuring out the system than 00:38:33.320 --> 00:38:35.699 actually doing the work. Right. Which is why 00:38:35.699 --> 00:38:38.099 I realized like I would never go back and be 00:38:38.099 --> 00:38:40.099 the valedictorian again because you're fighting. 00:38:40.300 --> 00:38:42.099 It's not actually about what you're learning. 00:38:42.320 --> 00:38:46.019 It's about beating the system. Right. Right. 00:38:46.840 --> 00:38:50.800 Right. It's that like. When I graduated and then 00:38:50.800 --> 00:38:53.159 like even that summer and then when I started 00:38:53.159 --> 00:38:57.880 college, I was like, I wasted so much time instead 00:38:57.880 --> 00:39:00.260 of just actually. I mean, of course, I learned 00:39:00.260 --> 00:39:02.400 a lot and I took a lot of information in and 00:39:02.400 --> 00:39:05.659 really think, you know, earned what I earned 00:39:05.659 --> 00:39:08.559 and got a lot of knowledge from the. But still, 00:39:08.679 --> 00:39:11.559 like, yeah, you're also fighting a system and 00:39:11.559 --> 00:39:13.780 you're not actually learning as much. Yeah. Yeah. 00:39:13.840 --> 00:39:18.610 And if the final of the class is worth. 50 % 00:39:18.610 --> 00:39:24.110 of the grade, there will be some people who nail 00:39:24.110 --> 00:39:28.789 that final, grab the three credits, but not need 00:39:28.789 --> 00:39:32.349 to put in a whole lot of assignments or work 00:39:32.349 --> 00:39:35.670 in the initial 14 weeks of the semester. The 00:39:35.670 --> 00:39:38.889 15 week is where it all turns on. Actually, something 00:39:38.889 --> 00:39:41.829 that a former math teacher of mine that had me 00:39:41.829 --> 00:39:46.889 for two years. said to me as I was talking to 00:39:46.889 --> 00:39:51.349 him for what's likely the last time ever. He 00:39:51.349 --> 00:39:56.570 said, you were always a good student, but if 00:39:56.570 --> 00:39:58.949 I were to give you a grade on playing the game, 00:39:59.110 --> 00:40:02.849 I would give you an F. Oh, interesting. Playing 00:40:02.849 --> 00:40:05.650 the game? Like playing the game. What do you 00:40:05.650 --> 00:40:08.329 think? Tell me what you think was meant by that. 00:40:09.129 --> 00:40:11.969 What was meant by that is that, like, in class, 00:40:12.250 --> 00:40:14.429 I'm always extremely passionate about the material. 00:40:14.570 --> 00:40:16.869 I always have quite good comprehension of the 00:40:16.869 --> 00:40:19.070 material. I always enjoy discussing it with the 00:40:19.070 --> 00:40:21.570 teacher. Like, I always want to learn more. Outside 00:40:21.570 --> 00:40:24.030 of class, I don't want to touch a single thing 00:40:24.030 --> 00:40:27.269 ever. And I want to go and go for a bike ride. 00:40:27.309 --> 00:40:28.969 I want to talk to my friends. Live life. Yeah, 00:40:28.969 --> 00:40:31.820 exactly. I don't care. Right. Like Chase Joy. 00:40:31.960 --> 00:40:34.619 And in order to play the game of high school, 00:40:34.739 --> 00:40:38.119 you need to care disproportionately about the 00:40:38.119 --> 00:40:39.760 stuff that's happening outside of the classroom. 00:40:40.800 --> 00:40:43.320 In like, I would say a very significant way. 00:40:44.119 --> 00:40:47.059 Especially like modern day with extracurriculars 00:40:47.059 --> 00:40:49.400 and their importance to like getting into college. 00:40:49.639 --> 00:40:52.920 Like nowadays, I feel like for really high performing 00:40:52.920 --> 00:40:56.420 students, you in fact are incentivized to put 00:40:56.420 --> 00:41:01.440 more effort in your pursuits. Around school than 00:41:01.440 --> 00:41:04.460 you are into your pursuit of school. Yeah. You're 00:41:04.460 --> 00:41:07.239 expected to have like 16 hour days. Yeah. And 00:41:07.239 --> 00:41:10.579 yeah. Do you feel like that particular teacher 00:41:10.579 --> 00:41:16.119 who should be named? Was that a sort of a backhanded 00:41:16.119 --> 00:41:19.820 compliment or was it because as you were describing 00:41:19.820 --> 00:41:22.440 that, I was like, it actually sounds like you 00:41:22.440 --> 00:41:27.119 played the game really friggin smart. Um, yeah. 00:41:27.789 --> 00:41:30.670 For yourself, yeah. I played the game strategically. 00:41:31.690 --> 00:41:38.010 My win con was poor, though. I think, especially 00:41:38.010 --> 00:41:41.510 coming from that teacher in particular, it was 00:41:41.510 --> 00:41:43.750 not an insult in the least. It was actually a 00:41:43.750 --> 00:41:48.150 point of pride for me. Yeah. As I think that 00:41:48.150 --> 00:41:52.389 I can both maintain my sort of rebellion against 00:41:52.389 --> 00:41:56.170 society at large through my lack of... effort 00:41:56.170 --> 00:41:58.630 into like the pursuits that are expected of me 00:41:58.630 --> 00:42:03.429 while at the same time engaging it with said 00:42:03.429 --> 00:42:06.050 pursuits on a deeper level than others. Yeah. 00:42:06.130 --> 00:42:08.530 Right. Like I'm not checking the boxes. I'm reading 00:42:08.530 --> 00:42:11.070 between the lines. And that makes me kind of 00:42:11.070 --> 00:42:13.969 like. Yeah. I don't know. Sort of like anti -society 00:42:13.969 --> 00:42:16.210 while at the same time having a deep understanding 00:42:16.210 --> 00:42:19.190 of it. Which for me is sort of the goal. Like 00:42:19.190 --> 00:42:22.610 we talk about what resistance looks like often. 00:42:25.630 --> 00:42:30.730 It's not ever been important to me that a student, 00:42:30.769 --> 00:42:33.289 whether that's high school or college, be able 00:42:33.289 --> 00:42:37.150 to spit back the rote memory, like the ability 00:42:37.150 --> 00:42:42.769 to memorize the bones of your hand or the categories 00:42:42.769 --> 00:42:47.530 of fish species or whatever the thing is. That's 00:42:47.530 --> 00:42:50.250 never been important to me. The ability to engage 00:42:50.250 --> 00:42:53.340 in the material and demonstrate. a deeper understanding 00:42:53.340 --> 00:42:57.559 than what is written, the words on page. That's 00:42:57.559 --> 00:42:59.980 always been my goal, like critical thinking, 00:43:00.199 --> 00:43:05.500 the ability to master joy while also engaging 00:43:05.500 --> 00:43:10.380 in the pursuit of deeper thought. And for some 00:43:10.380 --> 00:43:14.219 students, that might be best done in the Latin 00:43:14.219 --> 00:43:17.599 classroom, other students in the music room and 00:43:17.599 --> 00:43:20.610 other students in the woodshop. It doesn't matter 00:43:20.610 --> 00:43:23.510 to me what the setting is. The ability to engage 00:43:23.510 --> 00:43:29.269 and demonstrate a passion for learning, if I 00:43:29.269 --> 00:43:31.829 were teaching more, that would be my absolute 00:43:31.829 --> 00:43:34.489 goal. And how it's reflected doesn't require 00:43:34.489 --> 00:43:39.679 homework and pop quizzes. I totally agree. Like, 00:43:39.739 --> 00:43:42.320 I think the compliance to the system and the 00:43:42.320 --> 00:43:46.320 societal structure was so detrimental to me and 00:43:46.320 --> 00:43:48.539 has left me with so many mental health things 00:43:48.539 --> 00:43:53.920 to combat and like to overcome. And yeah, I know 00:43:53.920 --> 00:43:57.139 what I'm not fighting the system anymore. It's 00:43:57.139 --> 00:43:58.760 always the English classes. You always have that 00:43:58.760 --> 00:44:01.099 English teacher that'll give you like a 48 .25 00:44:01.099 --> 00:44:03.460 and you're like, where, how did you give me two 00:44:03.460 --> 00:44:06.800 fifths of, for 5 % of a point? Like that doesn't 00:44:06.800 --> 00:44:07.860 make any sense. And then you can't read their 00:44:07.860 --> 00:44:10.340 handwriting. And even in college, that's how 00:44:10.340 --> 00:44:12.579 it is. And like really stepping back from that, 00:44:12.599 --> 00:44:15.099 being like, nope, that doesn't matter. I got 00:44:15.099 --> 00:44:17.539 a lot from that material. I presented that. I'm 00:44:17.539 --> 00:44:20.639 still got a great grade and all my feedback is 00:44:20.639 --> 00:44:22.920 great. And I feel like I've learned something 00:44:22.920 --> 00:44:25.690 and that's what is valuable. Yeah, well, what 00:44:25.690 --> 00:44:29.250 I also hear you all saying is if you had to go 00:44:29.250 --> 00:44:33.369 back and do it again the same way it was laid 00:44:33.369 --> 00:44:36.329 out last time, you'd have to change your strategy 00:44:36.329 --> 00:44:40.909 because that didn't work for you. Exhaustion, 00:44:40.909 --> 00:44:44.969 anxiety, stress, pressure, missing out on moments 00:44:44.969 --> 00:44:49.190 of joy and social opportunities. If you could 00:44:49.190 --> 00:44:51.969 go back and redesign your high school career. 00:44:52.599 --> 00:44:56.840 in a way that matched your passion and what is 00:44:56.840 --> 00:44:59.519 the, to use Soren's words, what's the utility 00:44:59.519 --> 00:45:02.599 of this education, that's where you would find 00:45:02.599 --> 00:45:05.559 success and then be able to do it again and do 00:45:05.559 --> 00:45:10.659 it differently. Yeah. 100%. Well, wrapping up 00:45:10.659 --> 00:45:14.059 this episode. Thank you guys so much, Sophie 00:45:14.059 --> 00:45:15.840 and Bennett, for coming on the show. Yeah, nice 00:45:15.840 --> 00:45:18.039 to finally meet you both. Great to meet you as 00:45:18.039 --> 00:45:20.000 well. Thank you for having us. For our listeners, 00:45:20.199 --> 00:45:22.480 thank you so much for listening. We'll see you 00:45:22.480 --> 00:45:25.559 next week, and have a lovely rest of your day. 00:45:25.659 --> 00:45:29.179 Thanks for listening, all. The Inspired Insights 00:45:29.179 --> 00:45:31.900 Podcast has been brought to you by Inspired Consulting 00:45:31.900 --> 00:45:35.179 Group, LLC. Edited and produced by Amanda Seidel 00:45:35.179 --> 00:45:38.139 and Derek Carter. Marketing support for the Inspired 00:45:38.139 --> 00:45:40.719 Insights podcast by Elizabeth Keenan. Music by 00:45:40.719 --> 00:45:45.519 Derek Herter. Please visit www .inspiredcg .com 00:45:45.519 --> 00:45:48.960 to learn more. Copyright 2025. All rights reserved.