WEBVTT 00:00:00.010 --> 00:00:02.750 The inspired insights podcast is for informational 00:00:02.750 --> 00:00:05.070 and entertainment purposes only and should not 00:00:05.070 --> 00:00:07.570 be considered health advice. This podcast is 00:00:07.570 --> 00:00:09.630 not intended to replace professional medical 00:00:09.630 --> 00:00:12.529 advice. Please note that this podcast may contain 00:00:12.529 --> 00:00:14.970 discussions on sensitive topics such as mental 00:00:14.970 --> 00:00:17.550 illness, suicide, and substance use. If you are 00:00:17.550 --> 00:00:19.969 experiencing a behavior health crisis or need 00:00:19.969 --> 00:00:23.109 support, please contact the 988 Suicide and Crisis 00:00:23.109 --> 00:00:29.050 Lifeline by calling 988 or visiting www .988lifeline 00:00:29.050 --> 00:00:57.500 .org. Welcome back, guys. Hey, hi. Hi. I am Soren 00:00:57.500 --> 00:00:59.979 Peterson, a high school student, and this is 00:00:59.979 --> 00:01:02.259 Chris McGlone's back with you all. We have a 00:01:02.259 --> 00:01:04.900 special guest. Charlotte Warren is here. Hi, 00:01:04.920 --> 00:01:07.540 Charlotte. Hello, hello. Thank you for having 00:01:07.540 --> 00:01:10.319 me. Charlotte, you and I have known each other 00:01:10.319 --> 00:01:13.079 probably a couple years now in some of my other 00:01:13.079 --> 00:01:17.219 social work roles with some of the work you do 00:01:17.219 --> 00:01:19.879 in our statehouse, and I'm going to let you introduce 00:01:19.879 --> 00:01:22.540 yourself. Awesome. Let our listeners and viewers 00:01:22.540 --> 00:01:26.239 know who you are. Thank you. So as everybody 00:01:26.239 --> 00:01:29.299 said, my name is Charlotte Warren and I serve 00:01:29.299 --> 00:01:32.939 now as a lobbyist. I never thought I would hear 00:01:32.939 --> 00:01:36.719 myself say those words, but I am working with 00:01:36.719 --> 00:01:39.540 Moose Ridge Associates, which is a lobbying firm 00:01:39.540 --> 00:01:43.480 in the state of Maine, led by and founded by 00:01:43.480 --> 00:01:46.000 Betsy Sweet. He's awesome. Who's awesome. And 00:01:46.000 --> 00:01:49.359 Laura Harper and John Hennessy, also awesome. 00:01:50.799 --> 00:01:54.840 members of of our group um and so that's that 00:01:54.840 --> 00:01:58.180 is what i do now in the legislature is i'm doing 00:01:58.180 --> 00:02:03.400 a mostly advocating on behalf of mental health 00:02:03.400 --> 00:02:06.579 and substance use disorder symptoms excuse me 00:02:06.579 --> 00:02:10.340 systems is a lot of the work that i'm doing and 00:02:10.340 --> 00:02:15.780 then i do a lot of also um sort of peripheral 00:02:15.780 --> 00:02:18.719 social justice work, if that makes sense. Yeah. 00:02:18.800 --> 00:02:22.740 What I love about you and your Moose Ridge team 00:02:22.740 --> 00:02:27.979 is I feel like you represent and are a voice 00:02:27.979 --> 00:02:31.000 for the partners, the agencies, the organizations, 00:02:31.360 --> 00:02:35.039 associations that you represent there. And you 00:02:35.039 --> 00:02:37.759 help us with some strategy and you help kind 00:02:37.759 --> 00:02:40.889 of map out. What are we looking to get done? 00:02:41.050 --> 00:02:44.509 Does it align? And if so, what are the other 00:02:44.509 --> 00:02:46.949 partners we can bring in? And then how do we 00:02:46.949 --> 00:02:51.530 move it forward? You are so skilled at laying 00:02:51.530 --> 00:02:55.129 out strategy. Thank you. And part of that, I 00:02:55.129 --> 00:02:58.270 appreciate that. Part of that is that I was on 00:02:58.270 --> 00:03:02.969 the other side for eight years, right? So I started 00:03:02.969 --> 00:03:08.750 my... consulting firm in um 2012 and my consulting 00:03:08.750 --> 00:03:12.389 firm is just called c warren consulting and um 00:03:12.389 --> 00:03:17.430 so i was doing some legislative work starting 00:03:17.430 --> 00:03:21.430 in about 2007 2008 when i joined the main women's 00:03:21.430 --> 00:03:25.909 lobby yeah and so i i had that sort of experience 00:03:25.909 --> 00:03:29.349 and then i figured out all right i'm going to 00:03:29.349 --> 00:03:31.590 try to get there and be one of those i need to 00:03:31.590 --> 00:03:34.120 have a vote yeah Right. It's like you can kind 00:03:34.120 --> 00:03:37.020 of see what things needed to be fixed. And I 00:03:37.020 --> 00:03:39.599 spent some time kind of on the outer edges trying 00:03:39.599 --> 00:03:41.360 to get things fixed. And I was like, I got to 00:03:41.360 --> 00:03:44.060 go get there. I got to have a vote. So I ran. 00:03:44.099 --> 00:03:47.300 I got elected and I ended up serving for eight 00:03:47.300 --> 00:03:50.439 years in the main legislature. And I think it 00:03:50.439 --> 00:03:53.139 really has allowed me to see the process both, 00:03:53.180 --> 00:03:56.319 you know, first as the associate director of 00:03:56.319 --> 00:03:59.569 an organization. And we had a lobbyist. Right. 00:03:59.669 --> 00:04:03.990 And then doing some direct work on my own, then 00:04:03.990 --> 00:04:07.490 serving as a legislator and now coming full circle 00:04:07.490 --> 00:04:10.849 back into the building with a whole bunch of 00:04:10.849 --> 00:04:15.729 sort of new experience also about what those 00:04:15.729 --> 00:04:18.050 different roles are. And new relationships. And 00:04:18.050 --> 00:04:21.430 new relationships. Yeah. What years did you serve? 00:04:22.139 --> 00:04:26.360 I got elected in 2014. Okay. And so I started 00:04:26.360 --> 00:04:32.920 my service in 2015, the January of 2015, and 00:04:32.920 --> 00:04:37.300 I served for eight years. So until, what is that? 00:04:37.560 --> 00:04:41.959 23. 23. So through the first half of COVID. Yes. 00:04:41.980 --> 00:04:46.240 Wow. Yes. We were through, I did two years of... 00:04:46.519 --> 00:04:49.279 chairing the Criminal Justice and Public Safety 00:04:49.279 --> 00:04:54.079 Committee 100 % over Zoom. Wow. And I will tell 00:04:54.079 --> 00:05:00.259 you, I thought I had stamina, good attention 00:05:00.259 --> 00:05:05.060 before doing 12 -hour Zoom hearings. Yeah. Oh, 00:05:05.079 --> 00:05:08.000 I cannot imagine. Zoom really allowed me to... 00:05:08.920 --> 00:05:12.360 learn a little bit about my skills yeah I think 00:05:12.360 --> 00:05:14.500 it allowed a lot of us to learn about our skills 00:05:14.500 --> 00:05:18.019 we all had to sort of lean in in a different 00:05:18.019 --> 00:05:23.279 way yep yeah yeah do you I'm curious like from 00:05:23.279 --> 00:05:28.459 when you got in to as you left did you notice 00:05:28.459 --> 00:05:33.180 any dramatic shifts in the tides the vibes the 00:05:33.180 --> 00:05:38.069 the political discord no 100 in just eight years 00:05:38.069 --> 00:05:45.149 time 100 i've always been um somebody that tells 00:05:45.149 --> 00:05:48.490 the truth no matter right no man literally no 00:05:48.490 --> 00:05:51.730 matter right um even if people don't want to 00:05:51.730 --> 00:05:56.009 hear it um i believe in my truth and and i'm 00:05:56.009 --> 00:06:00.540 i believe in my right to share it yeah And I'm 00:06:00.540 --> 00:06:05.279 and part of my work is to help other people believe 00:06:05.279 --> 00:06:07.420 in their truth and believe in their value to 00:06:07.420 --> 00:06:12.560 share it. And so I've always been just sort of 00:06:12.560 --> 00:06:17.899 100 percent who I am. And I saw the reaction 00:06:17.899 --> 00:06:25.029 to who I am change. as the world outside of the 00:06:25.029 --> 00:06:28.949 legislature changed. And specifically, I can 00:06:28.949 --> 00:06:33.790 talk about specific examples of where my sort 00:06:33.790 --> 00:06:36.310 of behavior and what I was sharing on social 00:06:36.310 --> 00:06:40.209 media and my beliefs, I don't feel like they 00:06:40.209 --> 00:06:44.009 really changed. But all of a sudden, I sort of 00:06:44.009 --> 00:06:48.459 became a target. in some ways of what we saw 00:06:48.459 --> 00:06:56.439 change outside. And so, yes, I started as an 00:06:56.439 --> 00:06:58.579 elected official. Now, I also want to say that 00:06:58.579 --> 00:07:01.379 I served as mayor and I served on a city council 00:07:01.379 --> 00:07:04.379 for 12 years. So I have a long time of sort of 00:07:04.379 --> 00:07:08.800 public service. And in that process of serving, 00:07:08.839 --> 00:07:13.439 I really experienced something outside of the 00:07:13.439 --> 00:07:17.540 work. And we all experienced it. The way we treat 00:07:17.540 --> 00:07:20.180 our elected officials has changed. The way we 00:07:20.180 --> 00:07:23.480 treat each other has changed. What we agree on 00:07:23.480 --> 00:07:28.579 for facts has changed. Right. So that I saw. 00:07:28.920 --> 00:07:31.660 Oh, I can't wait. I want to get into that more. 00:07:32.660 --> 00:07:36.660 Soren, this is our first guest episode of the 00:07:36.660 --> 00:07:39.680 season. Indeed. And I have already done a terrible 00:07:39.680 --> 00:07:43.540 job keeping us on track. That's usually like. 00:07:44.060 --> 00:07:48.040 Inspired insight, right? Yes. What is your inspired 00:07:48.040 --> 00:07:52.339 insight of the week? So focusing on this idea 00:07:52.339 --> 00:07:56.660 of advocacy and the importance of political involvement, 00:07:56.680 --> 00:08:02.680 I was thinking about the defeatism that I see 00:08:02.680 --> 00:08:06.339 in a lot of my colleagues at school, particularly 00:08:06.339 --> 00:08:10.560 around politics. And then I look back into history. 00:08:10.990 --> 00:08:14.790 and recognize, for example, the social movements 00:08:14.790 --> 00:08:20.149 in the 60s and 70s were led primarily by motivated 00:08:20.149 --> 00:08:23.089 young people. And I'm not seeing that in my current 00:08:23.089 --> 00:08:26.189 generation. I see a lot of politically interested 00:08:26.189 --> 00:08:29.670 young people, but these young people are hanging 00:08:29.670 --> 00:08:32.169 out in online spaces where they're not taking 00:08:32.169 --> 00:08:35.809 tangible, pragmatic action. And I myself am. 00:08:36.360 --> 00:08:39.600 part of this. I sit at home and I pontificate 00:08:39.600 --> 00:08:43.179 and I consider policy and then I make no tangible 00:08:43.179 --> 00:08:46.399 action. Right. And then you nap for seven hours. 00:08:46.659 --> 00:08:51.039 Yeah. So my insight would be for young people 00:08:51.039 --> 00:08:56.539 to start thinking about how they can get involved 00:08:56.539 --> 00:09:01.980 with policy in a tangible sense rather than marinating 00:09:01.980 --> 00:09:06.480 in ideas. Yeah. Engaging in actions. I can't 00:09:06.480 --> 00:09:08.379 wait to check back in with you when we're done 00:09:08.379 --> 00:09:12.120 our time with Charlotte to see if you have some 00:09:12.120 --> 00:09:15.759 ideas on what you might offer. That's what I'm 00:09:15.759 --> 00:09:20.940 very excited for. Yeah. So my insight, and then 00:09:20.940 --> 00:09:22.779 I'll end with you because I want to follow up 00:09:22.779 --> 00:09:26.559 with some of these things. What actually reminded 00:09:26.559 --> 00:09:29.679 me that we haven't done our insights of the week 00:09:29.679 --> 00:09:32.480 conversation yet is when you were talking about 00:09:32.480 --> 00:09:35.860 the way we. the way people treat elected officials 00:09:35.860 --> 00:09:39.120 and even each other has changed. And so our listeners 00:09:39.120 --> 00:09:42.440 know and Sorin knows all too well that I often 00:09:42.440 --> 00:09:46.120 look to one of my heroes, pop culture heroes 00:09:46.120 --> 00:09:51.440 for insight. None other than Miss Taylor Swift. 00:09:54.039 --> 00:09:57.860 So I'm in my Taylor cardigan and I'm wearing 00:09:57.860 --> 00:10:01.399 my insight of the week under my cardigan. And 00:10:01.399 --> 00:10:05.179 it's a quote Taylor used in her Time magazine 00:10:05.179 --> 00:10:10.539 person of the year 2023 article. And she just 00:10:10.539 --> 00:10:13.639 very casually dropped this little nugget in the 00:10:13.639 --> 00:10:18.159 interview and carried on. And I come back to 00:10:18.159 --> 00:10:20.539 it over and over again. And what I love about 00:10:20.539 --> 00:10:25.600 it is on the surface. It may not sound kind, 00:10:25.740 --> 00:10:30.480 and Taylor is absolutely kind, but I think it 00:10:30.480 --> 00:10:33.940 just sums up everything so well. And it's this 00:10:33.940 --> 00:10:38.320 trash takes itself out every single time. And 00:10:38.320 --> 00:10:41.419 it's this reminder that we don't have to take 00:10:41.419 --> 00:10:45.620 a swing at every pitch that's thrown at us. We 00:10:45.620 --> 00:10:49.720 don't have to spend a lot of time. putting on 00:10:49.720 --> 00:10:53.840 the body armor and planning the defense, sometimes 00:10:53.840 --> 00:10:58.039 just the knowledge that the folks that are taking 00:10:58.039 --> 00:11:02.940 swings at us or throwing lobs at us aren't worthy 00:11:02.940 --> 00:11:07.500 of the return energy, it'll take care of itself. 00:11:07.659 --> 00:11:11.279 It takes itself out eventually. And so that's 00:11:11.279 --> 00:11:15.419 kind of one of my thoughts. I think that is a 00:11:15.419 --> 00:11:19.090 very... Useful insight in most contexts and I 00:11:19.090 --> 00:11:22.190 agree with it broadly but I think like on the 00:11:22.190 --> 00:11:25.649 topic of American policy and politics a lot of 00:11:25.649 --> 00:11:30.210 people expected the Garbage that is currently 00:11:30.210 --> 00:11:32.850 head of the federal government to have taken 00:11:32.850 --> 00:11:37.789 himself out Many moons ago. Yeah, and yet he 00:11:37.789 --> 00:11:43.080 remains in a position of power and I think that 00:11:43.080 --> 00:11:47.379 expectation that we will continue to see positive 00:11:47.379 --> 00:11:50.600 movement without action is something that has 00:11:50.600 --> 00:11:53.179 done a lot of harm to social advocacy in the 00:11:53.179 --> 00:11:57.159 last few years. Yeah. But I broadly agree with 00:11:57.159 --> 00:11:58.779 that insight. And we're going to get back to 00:11:58.779 --> 00:12:00.980 that because I know exactly what you're picking 00:12:00.980 --> 00:12:02.679 up from that. Yeah. We will get back to that. 00:12:03.679 --> 00:12:07.559 Charlotte, inspired insight for our week. Well, 00:12:07.659 --> 00:12:11.299 yes, you actually. gave me the inspired insight. 00:12:11.620 --> 00:12:15.539 When we were on our call a couple days ago, and 00:12:15.539 --> 00:12:22.679 you shared resistance plus resilience. Yeah. 00:12:25.340 --> 00:12:29.889 I just, you know, hallelujah. Yeah. Hallelujah. 00:12:30.710 --> 00:12:33.830 Yeah. Right. Like we have got to put those two 00:12:33.830 --> 00:12:36.570 things together and not separate them. They have 00:12:36.570 --> 00:12:40.070 to be. They have to be. And you will remember 00:12:40.070 --> 00:12:45.269 that was one of our closing sentiments from last 00:12:45.269 --> 00:12:49.710 season is how do we become part of both the resistance. 00:12:50.840 --> 00:12:54.480 And prioritize resilience. Yes. And so we were 00:12:54.480 --> 00:12:56.820 talking about that being a theme as we come into 00:12:56.820 --> 00:12:59.779 some other activities we're doing. So I'm curious, 00:12:59.879 --> 00:13:03.340 what are your thoughts on that? How do we balance 00:13:03.340 --> 00:13:08.360 this need, especially now, this need to do something 00:13:08.360 --> 00:13:13.100 and fight back and prioritize wellness and self 00:13:13.100 --> 00:13:15.100 -care? You know, I was thinking of it on my drive 00:13:15.100 --> 00:13:20.830 up this morning. And as everybody else. We have 00:13:20.830 --> 00:13:25.730 a lot of, I have a lot of stuff roaming around 00:13:25.730 --> 00:13:30.649 in my head right now that's, I'm not ready to 00:13:30.649 --> 00:13:33.009 prognosticate about what happened in November 00:13:33.009 --> 00:13:38.309 and what, who did what wrong, right? Right now, 00:13:38.429 --> 00:13:41.629 I'm sitting back and I'm kind of watching and 00:13:41.629 --> 00:13:44.429 I'm gathering information. And one of the things 00:13:44.429 --> 00:13:47.669 that Vice President Kamala Harris said during 00:13:47.669 --> 00:13:52.879 her race was, There's a lot of young women out 00:13:52.879 --> 00:13:57.600 there not aspiring to be humble. She said, you 00:13:57.600 --> 00:14:00.320 know, many of us aren't aspiring to be humble. 00:14:00.559 --> 00:14:03.240 And that really resonated with me because I'm 00:14:03.240 --> 00:14:06.139 not aspiring to be humble to make a bunch of 00:14:06.139 --> 00:14:08.620 other people feel comfortable either. But I'm 00:14:08.620 --> 00:14:12.399 also not aspiring to be a martyr. Yeah. Right. 00:14:12.480 --> 00:14:16.299 Right. I do not aspire to be superwoman. Right. 00:14:16.419 --> 00:14:18.940 Right. We do a lot of that like, you know, I'm 00:14:18.940 --> 00:14:22.080 doing everything. No. I don't aspire to doing 00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:26.879 everything. Right? Yeah. Well, and somebody educated 00:14:26.879 --> 00:14:34.320 me years ago around racial justice and anti -supremacist 00:14:34.320 --> 00:14:35.980 movements, especially in the field of social 00:14:35.980 --> 00:14:40.779 work, that to rest is to be part of the resistance. 00:14:41.000 --> 00:14:45.500 To rest and gather and pause and collect thoughts. 00:14:46.590 --> 00:14:49.350 is pushing back against supremacist culture, 00:14:49.529 --> 00:14:53.750 where it's drive and produce and more, more, 00:14:53.830 --> 00:14:58.929 more all the time. To rest is to be part of resistance. 00:14:59.169 --> 00:15:02.730 And it's that trickster energy is one way it's 00:15:02.730 --> 00:15:06.289 referred to, right? That trickster energy of, 00:15:06.330 --> 00:15:09.269 you know, maybe my ancestor, just to keep what 00:15:09.269 --> 00:15:12.009 you're saying, maybe my ancestor. An African 00:15:12.009 --> 00:15:14.289 -American person in the field couldn't rest, 00:15:14.490 --> 00:15:17.070 could not stop from picking the cotton because 00:15:17.070 --> 00:15:20.190 the master was there with the whip. Right. But 00:15:20.190 --> 00:15:25.490 that that person of color now. Yeah. Yeah. Rest. 00:15:25.809 --> 00:15:28.289 Right. Right. And we talk about it a lot. Right. 00:15:28.370 --> 00:15:32.990 We talk about these. What was it? People were 00:15:32.990 --> 00:15:35.289 talking about like quitting. What was that term? 00:15:35.429 --> 00:15:37.710 Quiet quitting. Quiet quitting. Yeah. Right? 00:15:37.990 --> 00:15:40.289 I say to people all the time, you know, you get 00:15:40.289 --> 00:15:42.470 to decide how much you get paid in Iowa. Yeah. 00:15:42.690 --> 00:15:44.990 You just work less and how much you get paid 00:15:44.990 --> 00:15:47.450 in Iowa goes up. You know, like there's that 00:15:47.450 --> 00:15:51.269 tricky energy or trickster energy that I think 00:15:51.269 --> 00:15:54.639 we all need to be using. As part of the resistance. 00:15:54.860 --> 00:15:57.480 Right. Because it's true. Capitalism and the 00:15:57.480 --> 00:16:00.419 patriarchy and all of that, it'll just grind 00:16:00.419 --> 00:16:03.480 us right down into the ground. Yeah. And I thank 00:16:03.480 --> 00:16:07.080 you for saying that because I I just mentioned 00:16:07.080 --> 00:16:10.419 this to you recently as well. Part of for my 00:16:10.419 --> 00:16:13.460 husband and I, part of our intentionality of 00:16:13.460 --> 00:16:18.240 rest is to unplug the news. Like I you and I 00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:22.669 have talked about this. I said. When it became 00:16:22.669 --> 00:16:25.830 clear in November what was happening, I said 00:16:25.830 --> 00:16:27.909 to my husband, I looked at him and I said, I 00:16:27.909 --> 00:16:34.110 can't do what we did from 2016 to 2020. I cannot 00:16:34.110 --> 00:16:38.309 live like that again. So I need to figure out 00:16:38.309 --> 00:16:43.350 how to give myself permission to not scroll any, 00:16:43.409 --> 00:16:49.720 all of it, all day long and marinate in. What 00:16:49.720 --> 00:16:52.720 are they doing? What are they changing? Whoever 00:16:52.720 --> 00:16:57.980 that is, I can't live like that again. You, my 00:16:57.980 --> 00:17:00.860 friend, don't necessarily have that luxury, especially 00:17:00.860 --> 00:17:04.279 in our state politics, but also federally. This 00:17:04.279 --> 00:17:09.240 is your job. Your job is to be aware. So what 00:17:09.240 --> 00:17:12.099 are you doing to balance that with this idea 00:17:12.099 --> 00:17:20.490 of resilience and rest? Well, for one, I really 00:17:20.490 --> 00:17:26.369 do feel like right now what's happening federally 00:17:26.369 --> 00:17:31.609 is completely beneath all of us. Trash. I don't 00:17:31.609 --> 00:17:36.589 have time for it. I'm not interested in it. I'm 00:17:36.589 --> 00:17:42.170 not paying attention to it. And the reason I'm 00:17:42.170 --> 00:17:46.269 not paying attention to it is although I think 00:17:46.269 --> 00:17:51.319 people do see it as my job. I'm not lobbying 00:17:51.319 --> 00:17:53.700 in Congress. Yeah, not really. Right, right. 00:17:54.019 --> 00:18:00.460 I'm not. That's not my job. Yeah. And what we're 00:18:00.460 --> 00:18:03.500 going to see this administration do is throw 00:18:03.500 --> 00:18:06.319 a whole bunch of stuff. Yeah, flood the zone. 00:18:06.619 --> 00:18:09.359 Yeah. And everyone's, not everyone, some people 00:18:09.359 --> 00:18:11.519 are going to run around responding to all of 00:18:11.519 --> 00:18:14.200 those things. Yeah. And that's fine. I don't 00:18:14.200 --> 00:18:16.079 want to critique what anybody else is doing. 00:18:16.140 --> 00:18:18.740 I'm not doing it. Yeah. It's beneath me. Yeah. 00:18:19.099 --> 00:18:21.619 And that is how I feel about it. And I'm not 00:18:21.619 --> 00:18:26.140 paying attention to it. And when the call for 00:18:26.140 --> 00:18:29.420 resistance comes, I suspect people know how to 00:18:29.420 --> 00:18:31.579 get in touch with me. That's right. Right? And 00:18:31.579 --> 00:18:33.740 when my trans brothers and sisters need me to 00:18:33.740 --> 00:18:36.420 stand up and take action, you can bet I'm part 00:18:36.420 --> 00:18:39.400 of it. Right? And all the other things, you can 00:18:39.400 --> 00:18:42.299 bet I'm part of it. But that doesn't mean I need 00:18:42.299 --> 00:18:45.670 to be glued to my cell phone. or allowing that 00:18:45.670 --> 00:18:48.529 information into my house. Yeah. I no longer 00:18:48.529 --> 00:18:50.930 listen to public radio. Yeah. And the reason 00:18:50.930 --> 00:18:53.250 I don't listen to public radio is I would not 00:18:53.250 --> 00:18:55.750 let a dumb rapist into my house. Right. And I'm 00:18:55.750 --> 00:18:57.650 not going to listen to one inside my house. Right. 00:18:57.869 --> 00:19:01.109 And so. Solitarily. I'm not going to do it. Right. 00:19:01.269 --> 00:19:05.200 And so, like, I miss my public radio. But. Right 00:19:05.200 --> 00:19:08.619 now, I have to take care of myself. Yeah. And 00:19:08.619 --> 00:19:10.900 I don't think that there's anything that Charlotte 00:19:10.900 --> 00:19:13.660 Warren can control about what's happening in 00:19:13.660 --> 00:19:16.279 D .C. right now. That's right. Now, if there's 00:19:16.279 --> 00:19:19.279 an action activity that we need to take, sign 00:19:19.279 --> 00:19:21.680 me up. I'm the first one there. And we'll know 00:19:21.680 --> 00:19:24.400 about it, right? Like, I read to Derek, like, 00:19:24.519 --> 00:19:27.440 you know, one of our concerns is obviously around 00:19:27.440 --> 00:19:32.460 the... Targeting doesn't even seem to be the 00:19:32.460 --> 00:19:35.839 right word anymore, but the prioritization of 00:19:35.839 --> 00:19:39.920 making the LGBTQ community, especially trans 00:19:39.920 --> 00:19:42.759 and gender diverse, gender expansive community, 00:19:43.019 --> 00:19:46.240 making them the enemy, making them the them. 00:19:46.500 --> 00:19:50.880 And what I've said to Derek is, and we're in 00:19:50.880 --> 00:19:56.480 complete agreement, I promise y 'all. If he or 00:19:56.480 --> 00:19:59.599 they do something that's going to impact our 00:19:59.599 --> 00:20:03.660 marriage, that's going to impact our rights, 00:20:03.880 --> 00:20:06.779 they're not going to sneak it through. We're 00:20:06.779 --> 00:20:08.640 not going to be asleep at the wheel and wake 00:20:08.640 --> 00:20:10.680 up tomorrow and suddenly our marriage has been 00:20:10.680 --> 00:20:14.019 dissolved. I am connected with enough folks. 00:20:14.240 --> 00:20:16.900 I get enough email from all of these organizations. 00:20:17.200 --> 00:20:20.559 We're going to know. So I don't have to be front 00:20:20.559 --> 00:20:23.759 and center in front of my screen. watching and 00:20:23.759 --> 00:20:30.200 waiting and scrolling, like patrolling the wall. 00:20:30.599 --> 00:20:32.660 Right. Yeah. I don't have to do that. It's not 00:20:32.660 --> 00:20:35.359 going to sneak through. The other zone flooding 00:20:35.359 --> 00:20:38.140 that's happening, I honestly don't give a shit. 00:20:38.259 --> 00:20:41.259 I cannot be bothered. And I love how you said 00:20:41.259 --> 00:20:44.319 it's beneath. It's totally beneath me. I don't 00:20:44.319 --> 00:20:48.180 need to know every confirmation hearing, every 00:20:48.180 --> 00:20:52.059 executive order. In my world, I am paying attention 00:20:52.059 --> 00:20:54.420 to some of those orders, especially gender -affirming 00:20:54.420 --> 00:20:57.460 care stuff and what's going on with diversity, 00:20:57.579 --> 00:21:00.019 equity, and inclusion, like my livelihood. Absolutely. 00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:02.220 But that's sort of the compartment, like, I'll 00:21:02.220 --> 00:21:06.400 focus on this so I don't have to focus on the 00:21:06.400 --> 00:21:09.849 other 99 % of it. Right, yeah. I feel like what 00:21:09.849 --> 00:21:11.809 you guys are speaking to is the importance of 00:21:11.809 --> 00:21:14.289 picking and choosing our battles when we have 00:21:14.289 --> 00:21:17.109 limited both cognitive and social resources. 00:21:17.190 --> 00:21:19.609 That's right. What's your hill that you're prepared 00:21:19.609 --> 00:21:23.150 to die on? And then how do you bunker and protect 00:21:23.150 --> 00:21:26.809 that thing? Yeah. And in being passive, we can 00:21:26.809 --> 00:21:30.410 be part of a resistance simply through not participating 00:21:30.410 --> 00:21:32.529 in an organization that we disagree with. That's 00:21:32.529 --> 00:21:36.809 right. Or not watching. I get really frustrated 00:21:36.809 --> 00:21:43.410 that... All of our news venues are doing exactly 00:21:43.410 --> 00:21:48.069 what they want by feeding it to us and jumping 00:21:48.069 --> 00:21:51.430 on it. It's so true. And I just don't want to 00:21:51.430 --> 00:21:55.309 give it my energy. Yeah. Yeah. And also what 00:21:55.309 --> 00:21:58.519 I'm hearing is I think. Politics on both sides 00:21:58.519 --> 00:22:01.819 of the aisle has become increasingly reactionary, 00:22:01.859 --> 00:22:04.880 especially on the right. And what we're seeing 00:22:04.880 --> 00:22:07.839 right now is a massive push from the reactionary 00:22:07.839 --> 00:22:11.079 right to dismantle the systems that leftists 00:22:11.079 --> 00:22:14.579 have attempted to provide the United States. 00:22:14.819 --> 00:22:19.660 And now what we need to do is sit, wait, observe, 00:22:19.779 --> 00:22:22.579 and know when to become reactionary in response. 00:22:22.859 --> 00:22:25.559 Strategy. Yeah. Craft strategy. I mean, you and 00:22:25.559 --> 00:22:28.400 I talk about this on and off camera all the time. 00:22:28.480 --> 00:22:35.380 Like, we get frustrated that it feels like there's 00:22:35.380 --> 00:22:39.980 this rollover mentality, like knee loss, so licking 00:22:39.980 --> 00:22:43.599 wounds. And I get frustrated with, for me, it's 00:22:43.599 --> 00:22:47.319 drawing the line of what is rest and what is 00:22:47.319 --> 00:22:51.599 apathy and just shrugging shoulders and walking 00:22:51.599 --> 00:22:54.640 away from it. I think that's a very difficult 00:22:54.640 --> 00:22:57.380 line to draw. Even in this conversation, I'm 00:22:57.380 --> 00:23:00.519 like, is that the greatest choice when you guys 00:23:00.519 --> 00:23:02.619 are saying some of your like passive whatever? 00:23:02.720 --> 00:23:05.539 But I've never been active in a political sphere. 00:23:05.779 --> 00:23:08.539 I spend a lot of my time thinking about it, but 00:23:08.539 --> 00:23:11.400 I have never taken action outside of some of 00:23:11.400 --> 00:23:13.299 the public speaking engagements I've been involved 00:23:13.299 --> 00:23:18.109 in. And this. This is big, though. I also want 00:23:18.109 --> 00:23:21.349 to say this is elite. Yeah. Yeah. Keep going. 00:23:21.569 --> 00:23:25.109 This is what you're doing. This is action. But 00:23:25.109 --> 00:23:30.269 keep going. Yeah. I think that a lot of young 00:23:30.269 --> 00:23:33.450 people are sitting on the apathy side of things, 00:23:33.630 --> 00:23:37.710 whereas a lot of older individuals or people 00:23:37.710 --> 00:23:39.990 who have been more politically involved previously 00:23:39.990 --> 00:23:43.410 are tired as a dog trying to fight battles for 00:23:43.410 --> 00:23:47.359 other people. Right. Right. So it's part of what 00:23:47.359 --> 00:23:51.000 I was thinking with my inspired insight. It is 00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:54.519 time for young individuals to take a step forward 00:23:54.519 --> 00:23:57.380 because I feel like young people, although they 00:23:57.380 --> 00:24:00.160 don't have the resources of older individuals, 00:24:00.420 --> 00:24:05.880 we are reformers. We are able to view critically 00:24:05.880 --> 00:24:08.140 the world around us in a way that people who 00:24:08.140 --> 00:24:09.859 have existed in that world for an extended period 00:24:09.859 --> 00:24:13.359 of time. can't right and we need to leverage 00:24:13.359 --> 00:24:16.880 that in order to advocate for new policy solutions 00:24:16.880 --> 00:24:20.740 so what does that look like for you today like 00:24:20.740 --> 00:24:25.299 what would a collective uprising of young voices 00:24:25.299 --> 00:24:29.359 what would that tangibly look like and it's okay 00:24:29.359 --> 00:24:32.400 not like i don't know yeah i mean i think about 00:24:32.400 --> 00:24:36.779 um and i forget the year i the um the march for 00:24:36.779 --> 00:24:42.390 our lives group after the um Shoot. Is it Columbine? 00:24:42.589 --> 00:24:45.329 That that group. Yeah, I can't remember which. 00:24:45.589 --> 00:24:47.730 That group of young people said, uh -uh. And 00:24:47.730 --> 00:24:51.130 they were in D .C. They were marching and organizing 00:24:51.130 --> 00:24:53.750 marches. Was that Parkland? Parkland. Yeah, I 00:24:53.750 --> 00:24:55.390 think it was Parkland. Columbine was in the night. 00:24:55.450 --> 00:24:58.809 Yeah. So, yeah, isn't that sad they all blurred 00:24:58.809 --> 00:25:03.490 together? That's another topic as well. But that 00:25:03.490 --> 00:25:06.849 felt, for the first time, it really felt like 00:25:06.849 --> 00:25:10.079 here are young people. doing something and they 00:25:10.079 --> 00:25:12.519 got torn to shreds right yeah we knew they would 00:25:12.519 --> 00:25:15.700 they got torn to shreds but that looked like 00:25:15.700 --> 00:25:21.819 young people doing something and arguably they 00:25:21.819 --> 00:25:26.380 did they drew a lot of attention to it but i 00:25:26.380 --> 00:25:29.059 don't know short of like taking to the streets 00:25:29.059 --> 00:25:32.740 what does that look like now yeah like that's 00:25:32.740 --> 00:25:35.660 that's what i was thinking too because no legislation 00:25:35.660 --> 00:25:40.269 has been enacted At a federal level to introduce 00:25:40.269 --> 00:25:42.829 some amount of gun reform. Right. As a result 00:25:42.829 --> 00:25:45.369 of that, there have been no concrete actions 00:25:45.369 --> 00:25:48.690 to attempt to mitigate or reduce school shootings. 00:25:48.710 --> 00:25:53.450 Right. And I think that's some of the conflict 00:25:53.450 --> 00:25:56.710 that I have, especially like with my evaluation 00:25:56.710 --> 00:25:58.950 of what I'm doing. Yeah. Spreading awareness 00:25:58.950 --> 00:26:03.170 is action, but it's not results. Yeah. Right. 00:26:04.009 --> 00:26:08.410 Let me challenge you on that. Because I think 00:26:08.410 --> 00:26:09.950 it gets back to what Charlotte was saying and 00:26:09.950 --> 00:26:13.269 what your mom and I tell you all the time. You 00:26:13.269 --> 00:26:17.630 giving voice to all of the topics we're talking 00:26:17.630 --> 00:26:23.109 about is action. Is it measurable in the sense 00:26:23.109 --> 00:26:27.829 of ballot box? Maybe not yet. But I'm curious 00:26:27.829 --> 00:26:32.170 what other metrics we might think about where 00:26:32.170 --> 00:26:35.380 action... And results, like what are the other 00:26:35.380 --> 00:26:38.680 ways to measure results? And is it changing minds? 00:26:38.779 --> 00:26:44.160 Is it shifting hearts? Is it only passing bills 00:26:44.160 --> 00:26:46.940 or getting people elected? So what are the metrics 00:26:46.940 --> 00:26:49.900 when you think about results? Are you thinking 00:26:49.900 --> 00:26:52.779 in terms of here's the new policy, here's the 00:26:52.779 --> 00:26:55.220 new law, or here's the person sitting in the 00:26:55.220 --> 00:27:00.200 office? Well, OK, I think as a result of us living 00:27:00.200 --> 00:27:03.420 in a democracy. To some extent, swaying other 00:27:03.420 --> 00:27:06.380 individuals' opinions is results because that 00:27:06.380 --> 00:27:09.140 has a tangible translation into policy, right? 00:27:09.299 --> 00:27:16.059 To votes. However, I think that the only time 00:27:16.059 --> 00:27:18.859 when we're going to see tangible results is when 00:27:18.859 --> 00:27:21.579 those people that we convince go out and vote 00:27:21.579 --> 00:27:24.380 or go out and get involved in a movement that 00:27:24.380 --> 00:27:27.940 results in policy shifting. When these things 00:27:27.940 --> 00:27:31.200 become visible is when it manifests in a shifted 00:27:31.200 --> 00:27:36.460 policy. But until that is the case, our action 00:27:36.460 --> 00:27:39.700 is not doing anything, right? And I'd be curious 00:27:39.700 --> 00:27:44.299 to hear what you think. As a policymaker, the 00:27:44.299 --> 00:27:47.920 duality of, like, sort of the utility of advocacy. 00:27:49.960 --> 00:27:54.539 So important. So important. And that's the thing, 00:27:54.539 --> 00:28:00.539 Soren. You showing up and being who you are is 00:28:00.539 --> 00:28:06.420 so big. It is so important, right? So let me 00:28:06.420 --> 00:28:09.519 tell you what I mean about that in presence of 00:28:09.519 --> 00:28:16.380 the legislature. Hearing different people's stories, 00:28:16.660 --> 00:28:21.140 being able to connect some policy that we're 00:28:21.140 --> 00:28:25.339 trying to change or... or destroy or create or 00:28:25.339 --> 00:28:30.279 modify, it all needs to be accompanied by humanity. 00:28:30.759 --> 00:28:36.240 What makes it real? It can't just be, you know, 00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:39.900 theoretical discussions, right? It has to be 00:28:39.900 --> 00:28:44.980 based in our people, our communities, our collections, 00:28:45.220 --> 00:28:51.609 right, of groups. It has to be seen. In order 00:28:51.609 --> 00:28:55.349 to affect. And that's why I think, you know, 00:28:55.349 --> 00:28:59.329 doing this podcast, sending a letter to the editor, 00:28:59.450 --> 00:29:03.569 reaching out to a lawmaker, what all of those 00:29:03.569 --> 00:29:08.670 things and just even being who you are and sharing 00:29:08.670 --> 00:29:12.529 who you are is advocacy. Right. And resistance. 00:29:12.730 --> 00:29:16.849 And resistance and important. Yep. Yes, and resistant 00:29:16.849 --> 00:29:19.630 and important. And here's another thing that's 00:29:19.630 --> 00:29:22.509 resistance. And this is one I'm trying to get 00:29:22.509 --> 00:29:24.730 other people to agree with me on. So let's see 00:29:24.730 --> 00:29:27.970 if you guys agree with me. I think another form 00:29:27.970 --> 00:29:34.529 of resistance is using our own wisdom and not 00:29:34.529 --> 00:29:38.250 needing to be and not needing to do. And maybe 00:29:38.250 --> 00:29:40.670 this is just something that we as lefty progressives 00:29:40.670 --> 00:29:43.349 do. Right. We don't need to be surprised again. 00:29:44.349 --> 00:29:47.339 Yeah. That's the part that is irritating me about 00:29:47.339 --> 00:29:49.700 this more than anything else is people like, 00:29:49.740 --> 00:29:53.420 oh, my God, did you see what he did? Right. It's 00:29:53.420 --> 00:29:57.099 expected. This is a pattern of things. I don't 00:29:57.099 --> 00:30:00.240 know why it irritates me so badly, but it really. 00:30:00.920 --> 00:30:05.259 Irritates me. It's like we give up our own personal 00:30:05.259 --> 00:30:09.240 agency and our personal agency of I know stuff. 00:30:09.519 --> 00:30:14.779 I know what he did. I know who he is. And if 00:30:14.779 --> 00:30:18.059 I act surprised by it, aren't I like going back 00:30:18.059 --> 00:30:20.509 on like... what I was trying to say the whole 00:30:20.509 --> 00:30:22.809 time. That's right. Yeah. Well, for me, it's 00:30:22.809 --> 00:30:25.589 that it's not it's disingenuous and it's that 00:30:25.589 --> 00:30:29.789 performative pearl clutching of can you believe 00:30:29.789 --> 00:30:33.390 that? And those of us in the queer community 00:30:33.390 --> 00:30:39.349 on November blank, the day after when we woke 00:30:39.349 --> 00:30:42.210 up, those of us in this community looked at each 00:30:42.210 --> 00:30:45.400 other and said. Mark my words. Day one. That's 00:30:45.400 --> 00:30:48.619 exactly what I said. Mark my words. And sure 00:30:48.619 --> 00:30:53.960 enough, day one. And like I, it's even now cliche 00:30:53.960 --> 00:30:58.619 for Project 2025, but it's a thing, right? It 00:30:58.619 --> 00:31:02.119 literally mapped out. Yep. And those of us that 00:31:02.119 --> 00:31:05.759 have been targeted by those policies and politics 00:31:05.759 --> 00:31:09.599 for decades, we knew. We knew what was coming. 00:31:09.740 --> 00:31:12.759 He told us. They told us. Yes, like, this is 00:31:12.759 --> 00:31:14.460 something that voters have been aware of. And 00:31:14.460 --> 00:31:17.859 I was talking to one of my friend's parents who 00:31:17.859 --> 00:31:20.720 did vote for Donald Trump. And he was like, why 00:31:20.720 --> 00:31:22.420 is all of this happening? I don't know what's 00:31:22.420 --> 00:31:24.279 going on. And I'm like, you want to be like, 00:31:24.319 --> 00:31:27.819 this man took a bat out of a box, went and... 00:31:28.029 --> 00:31:30.049 Wind it up, and now you're shocked when you got 00:31:30.049 --> 00:31:33.009 hit in the head? Right. Like, what? Right. That's 00:31:33.009 --> 00:31:35.009 such a good way to say it. You sat there, and 00:31:35.009 --> 00:31:36.950 you were like, yeah, come, come. Right. Well, 00:31:37.170 --> 00:31:40.690 and I would suggest the moment that box was checked 00:31:40.690 --> 00:31:46.150 on the ballot, the bat was already pulled back 00:31:46.150 --> 00:31:49.309 a bit swaying and coming our way. Yeah, like, 00:31:49.509 --> 00:31:53.890 yeah. So this idea that you are surprised. I 00:31:53.890 --> 00:31:57.049 agree. And I don't know. And I try to be patient 00:31:57.049 --> 00:31:59.789 about it because I know that people in my own 00:31:59.789 --> 00:32:03.369 circle just love the drama. Yes. They love that. 00:32:04.289 --> 00:32:06.569 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Talk about the bad stuff. Right. 00:32:06.650 --> 00:32:08.829 And I'm the kind of person like if there's a 00:32:08.829 --> 00:32:11.369 pile of dog shit over there, I'm looking for 00:32:11.369 --> 00:32:13.349 the flowers. Right. That's right. And that's 00:32:13.349 --> 00:32:15.910 just my own personality. Yeah. Right. Like I 00:32:15.910 --> 00:32:19.210 don't want to. I'm not interested in spending 00:32:19.210 --> 00:32:23.380 so much time, you know. Filling whatever that 00:32:23.380 --> 00:32:26.460 is, wallowing, talking about it, sharing it. 00:32:26.519 --> 00:32:29.680 It's that I can't. Because that's resilience 00:32:29.680 --> 00:32:32.680 and resistance. That's pulling it all together, 00:32:32.740 --> 00:32:37.279 I think. It's sitting back into your own wisdom. 00:32:37.299 --> 00:32:43.200 Yeah. Right? And sitting back into your own truth 00:32:43.200 --> 00:32:46.559 of knowing some stuff. Yeah. One of the things 00:32:46.559 --> 00:32:49.259 that you and your colleagues taught me years 00:32:49.259 --> 00:32:54.730 ago. was the importance of strategy and planning. 00:32:54.910 --> 00:32:58.589 And I think it speaks a little bit, Soren, to 00:32:58.589 --> 00:33:00.970 what you were saying about what are the tangible 00:33:00.970 --> 00:33:05.150 results. Some of this stuff is measured in years. 00:33:05.390 --> 00:33:09.990 And so the conversation we have today might not 00:33:09.990 --> 00:33:12.690 result in policy change for two more election 00:33:12.690 --> 00:33:16.750 cycles, but we started it, right? The groundwork 00:33:16.750 --> 00:33:19.410 was laid, right? And it's the idea of the long 00:33:19.410 --> 00:33:22.970 game. And that... When we had these conversations 00:33:22.970 --> 00:33:28.970 years ago, it equally frustrated me. Yes. But 00:33:28.970 --> 00:33:31.930 also got me thinking about possibility and how 00:33:31.930 --> 00:33:35.849 do we then redefine the metric of the conversation 00:33:35.849 --> 00:33:40.250 we're having today might not yield results for 00:33:40.250 --> 00:33:44.650 years. Right. It's almost like dropping pennies 00:33:44.650 --> 00:33:47.529 in a well. Yeah. Right. You have to drop a lot 00:33:47.529 --> 00:33:50.180 of pennies in the well before they get. so high 00:33:50.180 --> 00:33:53.119 you can see them above the water line doesn't 00:33:53.119 --> 00:33:55.240 mean the pennies aren't there. Yeah, I love that 00:33:55.240 --> 00:33:57.500 analogy. Right? They're still in the well. Yeah. 00:33:57.660 --> 00:33:59.819 You just have to drop a lot of pennies for them 00:33:59.819 --> 00:34:02.740 to start coming up above the water. And for me, 00:34:02.900 --> 00:34:06.500 it's, you know, when I graduated college in 1994, 00:34:07.079 --> 00:34:11.800 you know, young, queer, trying to figure out 00:34:11.800 --> 00:34:15.440 my place in the world, right? And I was part 00:34:15.440 --> 00:34:18.920 of an organization at UMF. It was a gay straight 00:34:18.920 --> 00:34:22.099 organization. And we were like we were working 00:34:22.099 --> 00:34:26.380 on like having civil rights. Right. Right. Having 00:34:26.380 --> 00:34:30.000 access to civil rights, which meant that we couldn't 00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:33.000 be fired for being gay or lose our housing for 00:34:33.000 --> 00:34:36.199 being gay. Right. Yeah. I my first job right 00:34:36.199 --> 00:34:38.840 out of college was as a teacher. Yeah. Right. 00:34:38.900 --> 00:34:41.960 Right. And so I was very concerned about my employment 00:34:41.960 --> 00:34:46.530 and my housing. And and and and sort of was working 00:34:46.530 --> 00:34:51.030 on that policy fight. And then in my brain, look 00:34:51.030 --> 00:34:53.150 how fast we got to marriage equality. Right. 00:34:53.329 --> 00:34:57.309 Yeah. Right. Yeah. Very rapid shift. Right. And 00:34:57.309 --> 00:35:03.289 so but what I needed to remember was all the 00:35:03.289 --> 00:35:07.030 years. All the other pennies. All those pennies. 00:35:07.030 --> 00:35:10.050 Yeah. Right. Yeah. And that two things. One, 00:35:10.269 --> 00:35:14.039 we define our win. Yeah. Yeah. We define our 00:35:14.039 --> 00:35:16.559 win. Right. And that was like one of the first 00:35:16.559 --> 00:35:19.760 lessons I learned in policymaking. There is not 00:35:19.760 --> 00:35:22.980 the win cannot be. We got all the green lights 00:35:22.980 --> 00:35:25.320 or we got all the red lights. Right. It has the 00:35:25.320 --> 00:35:27.940 voting in the in the chambers. Right. It has 00:35:27.940 --> 00:35:30.119 to be something different than that because we're 00:35:30.119 --> 00:35:32.019 not going to get all the green lights on everything 00:35:32.019 --> 00:35:35.079 in one year. That's right. That's right. Right. 00:35:35.260 --> 00:35:38.860 It's that long game that. The actions we have 00:35:38.860 --> 00:35:41.880 now, today, might impact some of those green 00:35:41.880 --> 00:35:45.539 lights, too, for even six years from now. You 00:35:45.539 --> 00:35:48.820 know, one of the episodes that Soren and I did 00:35:48.820 --> 00:35:52.019 last season was an episode we kind of called 00:35:52.019 --> 00:35:54.900 Generations of Pride, and it was for the lived 00:35:54.900 --> 00:35:58.460 experiences of four male -bodied folks representing 00:35:58.460 --> 00:36:02.519 different eras. I love that. And one of my favorite 00:36:02.519 --> 00:36:07.500 people, mentors, Frank Brooks. was with us and 00:36:07.500 --> 00:36:10.119 i know you know france who and you know frank 00:36:10.119 --> 00:36:13.000 talked about um living through the aids epidemic 00:36:13.000 --> 00:36:16.559 and then building the organization that is now 00:36:16.559 --> 00:36:19.440 what we know is equality maine and this and and 00:36:19.440 --> 00:36:21.699 then what happened in the state of maine after 00:36:21.699 --> 00:36:24.920 marriage equality was passed and folks just kind 00:36:24.920 --> 00:36:28.000 of went yep done and equality main set uh -uh 00:36:28.000 --> 00:36:34.440 and re -energized and revamped that But I think 00:36:34.440 --> 00:36:36.860 about all those pennies in that well that you 00:36:36.860 --> 00:36:39.000 reference and all the wishes that every one of 00:36:39.000 --> 00:36:41.699 those pennies represents and how it takes the 00:36:41.699 --> 00:36:43.940 collective energy of piling up before you actually 00:36:43.940 --> 00:36:47.800 see it. And I think what I'm hearing over and 00:36:47.800 --> 00:36:51.059 over again that you know all too well, Sorin, 00:36:51.099 --> 00:36:54.599 as a queer young person in public school is the 00:36:54.599 --> 00:36:57.500 amount of people that I consider really dear 00:36:57.500 --> 00:37:03.619 friends who are so disconnected. from this idea 00:37:03.619 --> 00:37:08.199 of queer rights not starting and stopping at 00:37:08.199 --> 00:37:13.219 marriage. And how much is now being talked about 00:37:13.219 --> 00:37:15.280 in terms of whether we're talking gender -reforming 00:37:15.280 --> 00:37:19.000 care or diversity, equity, inclusion. But the 00:37:19.000 --> 00:37:24.599 new face of the gay rights movement is really 00:37:24.599 --> 00:37:30.280 the trans, non -binary young people. You all 00:37:30.280 --> 00:37:33.860 are the new face of what we knew as marriage 00:37:33.860 --> 00:37:39.320 equality. And so your passion for change and 00:37:39.320 --> 00:37:43.800 tangible, a metric of change, I get it. Because 00:37:43.800 --> 00:37:47.119 I think I hear you saying you were there. And 00:37:47.119 --> 00:37:55.579 I wonder your thoughts, Soren, on being the new 00:37:55.579 --> 00:37:59.360 thing that the right and the left are moving 00:37:59.360 --> 00:38:03.300 around the chessboard. I think that minority 00:38:03.300 --> 00:38:06.280 groups have consistently been used in politics 00:38:06.280 --> 00:38:09.699 as a pawn. Yep. Since the beginning of time. 00:38:09.920 --> 00:38:15.219 Yes. And I have a lot of opinions on the place 00:38:15.219 --> 00:38:20.059 of social dynamics in politics. I like to focus 00:38:20.059 --> 00:38:22.380 more on the socioeconomic end of things. Yeah. 00:38:22.820 --> 00:38:27.380 But I think what I'm recognizing primarily... 00:38:27.599 --> 00:38:32.659 in especially the right and their crusade against 00:38:32.659 --> 00:38:36.820 transgender individuals is a simple lack of understanding 00:38:36.820 --> 00:38:42.179 of reality. Right. They have created a straw 00:38:42.179 --> 00:38:46.880 man that they can attack, which serves to reinforce 00:38:46.880 --> 00:38:50.579 my point that we are pawns being in a political 00:38:50.579 --> 00:38:54.280 order. Totally. Straw person. The non -binary 00:38:54.280 --> 00:38:59.820 straw person. Yum. Yeah. As a young person, I 00:38:59.820 --> 00:39:04.659 think in viewing all of this, it's easy to feel 00:39:04.659 --> 00:39:07.659 misunderstood by the institutions around you, 00:39:07.760 --> 00:39:11.340 and we obviously are. But because of that, I 00:39:11.340 --> 00:39:13.559 think a lot of young people are incentivized 00:39:13.559 --> 00:39:16.300 to not interact with those institutions, but 00:39:16.300 --> 00:39:19.260 in order to introduce the change that we desire. 00:39:19.760 --> 00:39:21.639 we need to interact with those institutions. 00:39:21.860 --> 00:39:26.000 And I like the idea of defining our victory. 00:39:26.159 --> 00:39:30.019 Where is the goal? Right. There is no goal. We 00:39:30.019 --> 00:39:32.960 will never achieve utopia. But we can always 00:39:32.960 --> 00:39:36.679 push from where we are to that ideal, right? 00:39:36.780 --> 00:39:40.500 And as Charlotte said earlier, showing up in 00:39:40.500 --> 00:39:45.440 the world as your authentic self is a way you 00:39:45.440 --> 00:39:50.460 interact with those institutions. as a form of 00:39:50.460 --> 00:39:53.679 resistance you know i think about laverne cox's 00:39:53.679 --> 00:39:56.340 quote like i'm not interested in being erased 00:39:56.340 --> 00:40:01.460 and we've all queer people we've always we ain't 00:40:01.460 --> 00:40:03.579 going anywhere right so you can scrub the website 00:40:03.579 --> 00:40:06.059 yeah you can take the words out of the grant 00:40:06.059 --> 00:40:11.619 applications you can delete the data but every 00:40:11.619 --> 00:40:15.380 day that you charlotte every day we show up in 00:40:15.380 --> 00:40:18.780 the world as our authentic self It is a giant 00:40:18.780 --> 00:40:21.659 little finger to all of those institutions who 00:40:21.659 --> 00:40:27.139 seek to erase you. I think something that I find 00:40:27.139 --> 00:40:34.039 so distasteful on the social right is this desire 00:40:34.039 --> 00:40:38.480 to purify culture towards an arbitrary ideal. 00:40:38.619 --> 00:40:41.679 That's right. Whereas I think a lot of the social 00:40:41.679 --> 00:40:44.780 movements that I see on the left are in attempt 00:40:44.780 --> 00:40:51.599 to... have common culture be indicative of the 00:40:51.599 --> 00:40:55.659 actual social conditions on the ground. And allow 00:40:55.659 --> 00:41:00.360 individuals who are existing to be shown in the 00:41:00.360 --> 00:41:06.420 common eye. Whereas a lot of people on the right 00:41:06.420 --> 00:41:07.940 and a lot of the social movements on the right 00:41:07.940 --> 00:41:12.219 focus on creating a purified mainstream in which 00:41:12.219 --> 00:41:15.460 only certain social conditions can be shown. 00:41:16.119 --> 00:41:18.820 And I think through that they are abstracting 00:41:18.820 --> 00:41:22.639 reality and attempting to obscure issues for 00:41:22.639 --> 00:41:25.900 their own gain. A thousand percent. But that's, 00:41:25.900 --> 00:41:27.539 yeah, I don't know. I'm just commenting on the 00:41:27.539 --> 00:41:29.380 right now. This is I'm allowed. No, but it's 00:41:29.380 --> 00:41:32.800 so true. It's so true. Well, I think you're highlighting, 00:41:32.940 --> 00:41:36.039 Soren, that in order, part of advocacy is also 00:41:36.039 --> 00:41:39.079 understanding some of the dynamics at play, right? 00:41:39.159 --> 00:41:44.760 And so you don't have to... live in Augusta or 00:41:44.760 --> 00:41:50.699 watch every Zoom hearing, you don't have to be 00:41:50.699 --> 00:41:53.539 boots on the ground day in and day out to understand 00:41:53.539 --> 00:41:58.340 the issue and to take a role in the strategy 00:41:58.340 --> 00:42:03.039 to define what you are when. You get to lay out 00:42:03.039 --> 00:42:05.320 the strategy at the same time you get to define 00:42:05.320 --> 00:42:10.300 your when. Regarding intangible action and boots 00:42:10.300 --> 00:42:12.989 on the ground, even though As we agree, it's 00:42:12.989 --> 00:42:15.590 not necessary for every individual to be engaging 00:42:15.590 --> 00:42:20.570 with. I'd be curious to hear how you, Charlotte, 00:42:20.730 --> 00:42:25.130 first got involved in politics and what sorts 00:42:25.130 --> 00:42:29.269 of organizations other young people can strive 00:42:29.269 --> 00:42:34.110 to become involved with. You know, it's such 00:42:34.110 --> 00:42:36.570 a good question. And I wonder, I sometimes wonder 00:42:36.570 --> 00:42:39.969 myself, like, what sparked this? When did it 00:42:39.969 --> 00:42:44.909 start? I remember being well, first of all, I 00:42:44.909 --> 00:42:49.429 think just inherently because of who I am and 00:42:49.429 --> 00:42:54.389 who I was as a child. I was my mother is is a 00:42:54.389 --> 00:42:57.730 very born again Christian person. She's she's 00:42:57.730 --> 00:43:02.969 very evangelical. I was raised in a church that's 00:43:02.969 --> 00:43:05.730 free Methodist. So they're not just Methodist 00:43:05.730 --> 00:43:09.469 like they're like one step. Leveled up. They're 00:43:09.469 --> 00:43:12.139 leveled up Methodist. Yeah. You know, they're 00:43:12.139 --> 00:43:16.000 born again. It's the tent revival, the whole 00:43:16.000 --> 00:43:18.440 thing. Like we had church camp. So just trying 00:43:18.440 --> 00:43:21.360 to give you the picture of where I came from. 00:43:21.639 --> 00:43:26.239 And I was born a badass. You know, I just was 00:43:26.239 --> 00:43:32.079 born this way. I was. Yeah, I was. And my mom. 00:43:32.730 --> 00:43:35.289 God bless her. She really I mean, we have a great 00:43:35.289 --> 00:43:38.650 relationship now. I'm 54. You know, my mother 00:43:38.650 --> 00:43:42.429 is 78 and we have a great relationship. I got 00:43:42.429 --> 00:43:44.789 to keep her inside the line sometimes, you know, 00:43:44.789 --> 00:43:47.429 and she's open to that. She knows she's got to 00:43:47.429 --> 00:43:51.989 be kept inside the line sometimes. But I was 00:43:51.989 --> 00:43:58.670 a real tomboy. And and so I sort of had to start 00:43:58.670 --> 00:44:03.860 advocating early on behalf of myself. And somewhere 00:44:03.860 --> 00:44:10.099 along the line, I got the knowledge, thank you, 00:44:10.119 --> 00:44:11.860 thank you, thank you, thank you to whoever I'm 00:44:11.860 --> 00:44:15.400 saying thank you to. I got the knowledge that 00:44:15.400 --> 00:44:19.639 just because my mom thought I was wrong and the 00:44:19.639 --> 00:44:22.559 church thought I was wrong, I didn't think I 00:44:22.559 --> 00:44:26.889 was wrong. I thought they were wrong. Somewhere 00:44:26.889 --> 00:44:30.710 along the line, I knew as a young person that 00:44:30.710 --> 00:44:34.630 I did not want to be judgy. And that I did not, 00:44:34.650 --> 00:44:38.550 I remember having the term, I'm not going to 00:44:38.550 --> 00:44:41.670 judge until I've walked in your moccasins. I 00:44:41.670 --> 00:44:44.690 don't know where I got the term from. But I remember 00:44:44.690 --> 00:44:50.010 being very young and sitting back. And so that 00:44:50.010 --> 00:44:52.190 sort of informed, you get the picture of like 00:44:52.190 --> 00:44:56.139 how I. I sort of came and then I sort of just 00:44:56.139 --> 00:45:02.920 became this person that had experienced some 00:45:02.920 --> 00:45:07.260 real unfairness in my childhood. My sister is 00:45:07.260 --> 00:45:10.079 very feminine. She's very traditional. My brother 00:45:10.079 --> 00:45:14.639 is very much a boy. And then here I was in the 00:45:14.639 --> 00:45:18.679 middle and I'm very much a woman, but I wasn't 00:45:18.679 --> 00:45:23.309 what my mother thought I should be, right? And 00:45:23.309 --> 00:45:27.369 so I sort of became this one -woman show of like, 00:45:27.670 --> 00:45:31.690 I'm okay, even though you don't like me this 00:45:31.690 --> 00:45:33.590 way. Where did that confidence come from? I have 00:45:33.590 --> 00:45:37.150 no idea. I think part of it is I had a dad and 00:45:37.150 --> 00:45:40.880 a nana. who believed in me, and they thought 00:45:40.880 --> 00:45:43.519 I was the best thing they ever saw. They thought 00:45:43.519 --> 00:45:46.119 I was the best thing they ever saw. So you can 00:45:46.119 --> 00:45:50.219 make it through that resilience. Resilience happens 00:45:50.219 --> 00:45:53.340 even if you just have one person who believes 00:45:53.340 --> 00:46:00.179 in you, right? And so I have this, like, I can 00:46:00.179 --> 00:46:05.400 feel unfairness in my body. And I will not abide 00:46:05.400 --> 00:46:07.880 it. Yeah. You can't sit with that. I can't sit 00:46:07.880 --> 00:46:10.460 with it. I can't sit with it. It has gotten me 00:46:10.460 --> 00:46:16.260 into unbelievable trouble in my life. And I've 00:46:16.260 --> 00:46:18.280 learned really great lessons from that trouble. 00:46:18.719 --> 00:46:23.420 And I don't have regrets about the trouble I 00:46:23.420 --> 00:46:29.079 created. Yeah. Because I learned that it was. 00:46:30.250 --> 00:46:34.130 In order to be true to myself and be my authentic 00:46:34.130 --> 00:46:37.070 self, I was going to have to ruffle some feathers. 00:46:37.289 --> 00:46:39.809 Because there's a lot of times you don't have 00:46:39.809 --> 00:46:47.789 a choice. How do you balance the feeling of when 00:46:47.789 --> 00:46:50.730 you are sitting with that injustice, right? When 00:46:50.730 --> 00:46:54.750 you are watching people you care about harmed, 00:46:55.090 --> 00:47:00.079 how do you balance that with... recognition that 00:47:00.079 --> 00:47:03.659 there's no immediate gratification in the work 00:47:03.659 --> 00:47:06.099 that you do. Again, like we said, some of it's 00:47:06.099 --> 00:47:09.260 going to come years from now. How do you balance 00:47:09.260 --> 00:47:15.559 the need for change with knowing the strategy 00:47:15.559 --> 00:47:19.619 it's going to take? I lean into my own wisdom. 00:47:19.780 --> 00:47:25.699 And my own wisdom tells me that movements are 00:47:25.699 --> 00:47:30.460 not just 12 years long. And that if I really 00:47:30.460 --> 00:47:32.820 want to understand the struggle, I should go 00:47:32.820 --> 00:47:35.320 back and try to do a little learning about what 00:47:35.320 --> 00:47:37.099 black women have gone through in this country. 00:47:37.300 --> 00:47:40.239 Take perspective. Right. So I take a lot of perspective. 00:47:41.320 --> 00:47:48.500 But also, like, I try to keep myself in the world 00:47:48.500 --> 00:47:51.179 that I live in as opposed to the world I wish 00:47:51.179 --> 00:47:54.360 I lived in. Yeah. Staying grounded. I'm grounded. 00:47:54.559 --> 00:47:58.679 Right. Like I I want to just not I'm not surprised 00:47:58.679 --> 00:48:01.539 by things because, you know, when somebody shows 00:48:01.539 --> 00:48:03.639 me who they are, I believe them the first time. 00:48:03.659 --> 00:48:08.000 Right. Maya Angelou. I live by that. But I also 00:48:08.000 --> 00:48:11.280 spend a lot of time. I think I talk with my hands 00:48:11.280 --> 00:48:15.699 a lot. I spend a lot of time observing. Yeah. 00:48:15.940 --> 00:48:20.820 And then trusting my own observations. Are mine 00:48:20.820 --> 00:48:23.480 the same as yours? No. Are mine maybe not the 00:48:23.480 --> 00:48:27.440 same as 50 %? Not. Yeah. Still true. Still valid. 00:48:27.619 --> 00:48:31.179 Still here. Yeah. Still here. Still having a 00:48:31.179 --> 00:48:33.960 hell of a time. Yeah. Right? Still having a hell 00:48:33.960 --> 00:48:39.300 of a time. And so I think, I don't know if that 00:48:39.300 --> 00:48:42.460 helps answer your question of how I do it, but 00:48:42.460 --> 00:48:46.639 the work is never going to be done. Right? I'm 00:48:46.639 --> 00:48:49.320 never going to be like, there. Right? I don't 00:48:49.320 --> 00:48:57.360 know, right? But I find so much joy in the trying. 00:48:57.559 --> 00:49:01.860 Yeah. And the joy in the meeting, the people 00:49:01.860 --> 00:49:05.559 along the journey. I got to tell you, this work 00:49:05.559 --> 00:49:09.940 of trying to create change, it has exposed me 00:49:09.940 --> 00:49:15.519 to most unbelievable people. And then I just 00:49:15.519 --> 00:49:19.579 have like really big self -care strategies. Yeah. 00:49:19.699 --> 00:49:22.980 Right. And now we even got people judging self 00:49:22.980 --> 00:49:25.599 -care. Yeah. Right. People are like this. And 00:49:25.599 --> 00:49:28.300 it's like, I just want everyone to have their 00:49:28.300 --> 00:49:30.840 own self -care. What works for you. Right. I 00:49:30.840 --> 00:49:33.179 mean, let's trust that people are experts on 00:49:33.179 --> 00:49:35.960 their own lives. Yeah. And that if we can really 00:49:35.960 --> 00:49:37.920 encourage people to get to their own wisdom. 00:49:38.800 --> 00:49:44.300 Yeah. Yeah. Right. Self -care becomes so much 00:49:44.300 --> 00:49:47.360 easier when you know yourself and you know what 00:49:47.360 --> 00:49:51.900 you need. And, you know, I mean, my friends pick 00:49:51.900 --> 00:49:54.219 on me so much about certain things, right? I 00:49:54.219 --> 00:49:57.000 don't go to a lot of things that everybody else 00:49:57.000 --> 00:50:00.599 goes to. I say, you know, some people have FOMO, 00:50:00.599 --> 00:50:03.639 fear of missing out. I have JOMO, joy of missing 00:50:03.639 --> 00:50:08.719 out, right? You know, and everyone's got, you 00:50:08.719 --> 00:50:11.079 know, some sort of theory about what, you know, 00:50:11.159 --> 00:50:13.820 I need connections. Yeah. You can't do this. 00:50:13.940 --> 00:50:16.699 You should do this. And I'm like, you take care 00:50:16.699 --> 00:50:19.039 of your self -care. Yeah. I think I'm doing all 00:50:19.039 --> 00:50:21.239 right. There's that confidence again. Yeah. That 00:50:21.239 --> 00:50:23.420 confidence. You take care of your own, you know, 00:50:23.440 --> 00:50:26.159 I know what I need. Yeah. You know what you need. 00:50:26.219 --> 00:50:30.079 You know what you need. Right? And so I think 00:50:30.079 --> 00:50:33.039 that's got to be a big piece of it. Yeah. What 00:50:33.039 --> 00:50:37.039 I'm hearing is a lot of conviction and confidence 00:50:37.039 --> 00:50:41.860 and the importance of that in resilience. We 00:50:41.860 --> 00:50:45.119 need to believe in ourselves and the validity 00:50:45.119 --> 00:50:49.239 of our ideas in order to allow them to change 00:50:49.239 --> 00:50:52.460 the world around us. So thank you for saying 00:50:52.460 --> 00:50:56.880 that, Soren, because I'm just in awe of... The 00:50:56.880 --> 00:51:01.380 confidence. And you radiating that confidence, 00:51:01.699 --> 00:51:05.159 I like sit in it and I feel like my posture, 00:51:05.320 --> 00:51:11.300 like, yeah, we got this. It's infectious. So 00:51:11.300 --> 00:51:14.119 thinking about your question about resources 00:51:14.119 --> 00:51:20.900 then, Charlotte, what would you give folks Soren's 00:51:20.900 --> 00:51:26.239 age, even younger, if... If somebody who's not 00:51:26.239 --> 00:51:29.599 quite 18 yet, so that idea of a boat doesn't 00:51:29.599 --> 00:51:32.099 quite exist yet, but they want to get involved, 00:51:32.559 --> 00:51:36.320 what would you suggest to school -age youth? 00:51:36.840 --> 00:51:40.920 What can they do? Reach out to somebody you trust 00:51:40.920 --> 00:51:47.300 who will invite you in. And I think a lot of 00:51:47.300 --> 00:51:51.119 people in Augusta or... at Bangor City Hall or 00:51:51.119 --> 00:51:53.619 Brewer City Hall or wherever the sort of seats 00:51:53.619 --> 00:51:56.880 of government are, right? We do a lot of sort 00:51:56.880 --> 00:51:59.880 of, there's a lot of sort of talking about who 00:51:59.880 --> 00:52:02.500 should do what and what it looks like. But there's 00:52:02.500 --> 00:52:07.079 not a lot of just like, come join. Right, have 00:52:07.079 --> 00:52:10.639 a conversation. Come be part. And I think there's 00:52:10.639 --> 00:52:12.780 this expectation that everyone's going to like 00:52:12.780 --> 00:52:15.760 figure it out of their own. And really my thing 00:52:15.760 --> 00:52:18.840 is like, Would you like to come be at the Statehouse 00:52:18.840 --> 00:52:21.480 a day with me? Right. I say that to young people 00:52:21.480 --> 00:52:24.460 all the time. You know, that an invitation. Yes, 00:52:24.460 --> 00:52:28.579 it was. Soren's eyes went, oh, come spend the 00:52:28.579 --> 00:52:30.760 day with me. And I do mean that. Right. Like 00:52:30.760 --> 00:52:34.239 like I you know, when I was mayor of Hallowell 00:52:34.239 --> 00:52:38.699 and. We were trying to figure out a way to get 00:52:38.699 --> 00:52:40.960 people to come to meetings or be involved. Right. 00:52:41.099 --> 00:52:44.530 And I really saw it as. And some people I was 00:52:44.530 --> 00:52:46.849 working with really started to say, we need them 00:52:46.849 --> 00:52:49.670 and they're not doing it. And I really was like, 00:52:49.869 --> 00:52:53.070 well, what are we doing wrong? Right. It's my 00:52:53.070 --> 00:52:57.670 responsibility as mayor to figure out how to 00:52:57.670 --> 00:53:01.869 invite those people in. Right. How do I do that? 00:53:02.010 --> 00:53:08.010 Right. And so I think. It's on me and it's on 00:53:08.010 --> 00:53:11.309 all of us to figure out a way to not sit around 00:53:11.309 --> 00:53:14.769 and go, why aren't they showing up? But to figure 00:53:14.769 --> 00:53:17.289 out a way to go and get them. Yeah. And to bring 00:53:17.289 --> 00:53:19.250 them with me. And what I say to people all the 00:53:19.250 --> 00:53:20.710 time is, you want to come to the statehouse? 00:53:20.949 --> 00:53:23.170 You let me know. I'll meet you down at the screeners. 00:53:23.230 --> 00:53:25.230 Because that's like the biggest thing is like 00:53:25.230 --> 00:53:27.250 just getting into the building the first time. 00:53:27.289 --> 00:53:31.050 Yeah. Right. Because it's it's a scary place 00:53:31.050 --> 00:53:34.380 for the first time. Yeah. And not understanding. 00:53:34.920 --> 00:53:37.980 I know this was true for me, not understanding 00:53:37.980 --> 00:53:42.460 the process. And I and and I use that term process 00:53:42.460 --> 00:53:47.139 like I don't just mean like how bills are created. 00:53:47.440 --> 00:53:50.039 I mean, how do you get in? Yeah. What are the 00:53:50.039 --> 00:53:53.360 rules? You know, like, do you have to dress a 00:53:53.360 --> 00:53:55.460 certain way, act a certain way, be a certain 00:53:55.460 --> 00:53:58.239 way? Am I allowed to bring my. Mug of coffee. 00:53:58.260 --> 00:54:02.559 Like, what are the rules? And 100 % take away, 00:54:02.619 --> 00:54:05.280 like, the mystery of what happens. And what I 00:54:05.280 --> 00:54:08.780 learned very early on, it's just another place. 00:54:09.059 --> 00:54:11.599 Yes. It's just another place. And it's another 00:54:11.599 --> 00:54:15.579 place that you own. Right. And that's what I 00:54:15.579 --> 00:54:18.000 try to say all the time to people. That statehouse 00:54:18.000 --> 00:54:21.780 is your house. Yeah. It does not belong to the 00:54:21.780 --> 00:54:24.019 lawmakers. It does not belong to the governor. 00:54:24.260 --> 00:54:26.840 It does not belong to the lobbyists. It belongs 00:54:26.840 --> 00:54:30.639 to the people of Maine. But I have people say 00:54:30.639 --> 00:54:32.159 to me, you know, when I'm like, OK, we're going 00:54:32.159 --> 00:54:33.760 to go in this public hearing or we're going to 00:54:33.760 --> 00:54:35.300 go in this work. And they're like, are we allowed 00:54:35.300 --> 00:54:38.380 to be in there? Yeah. You're not only allowed 00:54:38.380 --> 00:54:40.679 to be in there, you're expected to be there. 00:54:40.780 --> 00:54:47.320 This is yours. This is yours. Right. So I would 00:54:47.320 --> 00:54:51.829 say. To anyone that's a young person or even 00:54:51.829 --> 00:54:57.889 an older person who wants to get involved but 00:54:57.889 --> 00:55:01.210 doesn't know what to do, reach out to somebody 00:55:01.210 --> 00:55:03.889 who's already doing it. Could I come along with 00:55:03.889 --> 00:55:08.469 you? Could I go to that meeting? Right? And do 00:55:08.469 --> 00:55:12.869 it. And go the first time. And the first time 00:55:12.869 --> 00:55:15.150 will be the hardest time. Because you have all 00:55:15.150 --> 00:55:18.889 those questions. Right? And of course you do. 00:55:19.030 --> 00:55:26.110 It's a place of a lot of rules and pomp and circumstance. 00:55:26.150 --> 00:55:28.210 Yes, it's the pomp and circumstance. That for 00:55:28.210 --> 00:55:31.329 me is the most intimidating part. And when you 00:55:31.329 --> 00:55:35.949 go there and you realize that there's not as 00:55:35.949 --> 00:55:39.590 much pomp or circumstance in real life than there 00:55:39.590 --> 00:55:41.690 was up here. Like the pomp and the circumstance 00:55:41.690 --> 00:55:44.820 I thought I was going to see. Yeah. Totally absent. 00:55:44.940 --> 00:55:48.019 Like, it's just another place. Exactly. Yeah. 00:55:48.099 --> 00:55:50.719 I hope you do show up. And we're going to talk 00:55:50.719 --> 00:55:53.119 more about this. Oh, we'd have so much fun. You 00:55:53.119 --> 00:55:55.440 would have so much fun. And what you would bring 00:55:55.440 --> 00:56:01.940 back to your peer group, that could be the next, 00:56:02.119 --> 00:56:06.219 like, I'll rent a bus. Yeah. I will pay to rent 00:56:06.219 --> 00:56:09.920 a bus to have you and your peeps show up. Yeah. 00:56:09.940 --> 00:56:13.519 And for me, again. Being your authentic selves 00:56:13.519 --> 00:56:16.980 and being in the stands so that you can't be 00:56:16.980 --> 00:56:19.460 erased, that you're you're not out of sight, 00:56:19.539 --> 00:56:22.980 out of mind to the people making the laws. I 00:56:22.980 --> 00:56:26.380 think that is perfect. Yep. And I have something 00:56:26.380 --> 00:56:29.159 to offer. Right. For all young people, I have 00:56:29.159 --> 00:56:31.719 something to offer. And I just want to say this 00:56:31.719 --> 00:56:34.739 world is yours. You guys are going to get this. 00:56:35.360 --> 00:56:38.340 Right? This is yours. And you get to shape it. 00:56:38.460 --> 00:56:41.340 That's right. You know? I mean, it is. And we, 00:56:41.440 --> 00:56:46.920 laming pile of... I know. Sorry. We need you 00:56:46.920 --> 00:56:49.320 to shape it. You and I have talked about this 00:56:49.320 --> 00:56:53.519 too. We need you to shape it. For sure. Charlotte, 00:56:53.559 --> 00:56:56.119 thank you so much for this. This was, like, amazing. 00:56:56.380 --> 00:57:00.590 I, um... again your inspiration and your confidence 00:57:00.590 --> 00:57:04.630 I hope it was helpful it's infectious it absolutely 00:57:04.630 --> 00:57:06.989 is so I want to round back to you as we close 00:57:06.989 --> 00:57:12.730 does action feel different does tangible results 00:57:12.730 --> 00:57:18.869 is it starting to feel a little different I spend 00:57:18.869 --> 00:57:23.780 a lot of time engaging with like system builders 00:57:23.780 --> 00:57:30.480 like Marx for example and I have a lot of like 00:57:30.480 --> 00:57:36.300 very extreme like alias ideas in my mind right 00:57:36.300 --> 00:57:40.440 and I think what this conversation has done for 00:57:40.440 --> 00:57:44.780 me has it has drawn me back to sort of like what 00:57:44.780 --> 00:57:48.619 do tangible results look like and how can I act 00:57:48.619 --> 00:57:53.650 in a tangible way in order to forward rather 00:57:53.650 --> 00:57:57.469 than a like semi -concrete ideal that is way 00:57:57.469 --> 00:58:02.530 off in the middle of nowhere. Yeah. I think this 00:58:02.530 --> 00:58:07.449 has made me a lot more energized. It's very energizing. 00:58:07.469 --> 00:58:12.670 I can't see it in your face for sure. But I don't 00:58:12.670 --> 00:58:15.650 know if my ideas around what progress looks like 00:58:15.650 --> 00:58:18.989 have shifted. Yeah. We'll have to see. We'll 00:58:18.989 --> 00:58:21.429 take the bus. We'll get the bus. We'll fill it. 00:58:21.769 --> 00:58:23.909 We'll take it. We'll hang out there for a day. 00:58:24.510 --> 00:58:30.570 And my sense is the energy that you pick up from 00:58:30.570 --> 00:58:33.550 an experience like that might help you start 00:58:33.550 --> 00:58:37.150 rethinking about what are my metrics? And how 00:58:37.150 --> 00:58:40.130 am I going to define my win? What's a win for 00:58:40.130 --> 00:58:43.969 me? I love it. Do you have any words of wisdom, 00:58:44.010 --> 00:58:46.909 parting thoughts for us? The words of wisdom 00:58:46.909 --> 00:58:49.309 are coming from what Soren said, and I just need 00:58:49.309 --> 00:58:53.849 to circle back to it. Because, Soren, you said 00:58:53.849 --> 00:58:56.550 it so clearly, and I don't think you really even 00:58:56.550 --> 00:59:00.110 realized it, that one of the ways we're going 00:59:00.110 --> 00:59:04.550 to make social change is by changing ourselves 00:59:04.550 --> 00:59:12.110 and each other. Because we're living, why are 00:59:12.110 --> 00:59:16.500 we living? This is my question. Why are we surrounded 00:59:16.500 --> 00:59:21.099 by people who don't think what's happening in 00:59:21.099 --> 00:59:25.280 D .C. is beneath them? Right. What's happening 00:59:25.280 --> 00:59:29.280 with us as people? How do we see ourselves? How 00:59:29.280 --> 00:59:33.519 do we treat ourselves? Why are we willing to 00:59:33.519 --> 00:59:38.219 put up with certain things? And I would say that 00:59:38.219 --> 00:59:43.559 it has to do with... The way we're treating ourselves. 00:59:44.380 --> 00:59:49.780 We give a lot of space for a lot of bad behavior. 00:59:49.840 --> 00:59:53.119 That's right. That's right. We give people permission 00:59:53.119 --> 00:59:58.000 to treat us those ways. And then we internalize 00:59:58.000 --> 01:00:00.920 that as if it's an expectation, as if this is 01:00:00.920 --> 01:00:07.000 what I deserve. So we collectively need to just 01:00:07.000 --> 01:00:14.219 rise up. Let that shit roll. Yeah. I agree. Yeah. 01:00:14.320 --> 01:00:19.119 What I sort of got from that is, to a great extent, 01:00:19.179 --> 01:00:22.980 hierarchy is enforced by the people at the bottom 01:00:22.980 --> 01:00:27.820 of it. Bingo. Yeah. And in order to reject that 01:00:27.820 --> 01:00:31.219 hierarchy, we need to reject what is inside of 01:00:31.219 --> 01:00:33.519 us that is aiding in the enforcement of that. 01:00:33.920 --> 01:00:38.440 Yes. Yes. Right? What is behind the simple statement 01:00:38.440 --> 01:00:42.099 of, I will not comply? I won't be complicit. 01:00:42.179 --> 01:00:44.300 That's right. Right? And that's what that thing 01:00:44.300 --> 01:00:47.380 is of every time unfairness. Even when people 01:00:47.380 --> 01:00:49.820 are like, oh, my God, here's Charlotte again. 01:00:49.940 --> 01:00:52.039 Yeah, right, right, right. Yeah, and it's kind 01:00:52.039 --> 01:00:54.300 of, again, full circle moment of getting back 01:00:54.300 --> 01:00:58.360 to this idea of rest and resilience that being 01:00:58.360 --> 01:01:02.320 complicit does not look like rest. They're two 01:01:02.320 --> 01:01:06.050 different pieces. So I can be resting. and still 01:01:06.050 --> 01:01:09.349 be just as fired up about all that's happening, 01:01:09.489 --> 01:01:12.389 even though it might not look on the outside 01:01:12.389 --> 01:01:17.590 like I'm fired. 100%. Well, this has been awesome. 01:01:17.769 --> 01:01:20.610 I thank you so much. Thanks for the invitation. 01:01:20.829 --> 01:01:24.570 Well, any time. This was delightful. Next time. 01:01:25.230 --> 01:01:28.210 Folks, my feet come under you. So on behalf of 01:01:28.210 --> 01:01:30.929 the podcast and our listeners and Inspired Insights, 01:01:30.969 --> 01:01:32.869 thank you so much. I've been Chris McLaughlin. 01:01:32.929 --> 01:01:35.610 I've been Soren Peterson. And I've been Charlotte 01:01:35.610 --> 01:01:38.789 Warren. Thank you so much. Thank you. We'll see 01:01:38.789 --> 01:01:41.710 you next week. Bye. 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