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.org. Welcome back, guys. Hey, hi. Hi. I am Soren
Peterson, a high school student, and this is
Chris McGlone's back with you all. We have a
special guest. Charlotte Warren is here. Hi,
Charlotte. Hello, hello. Thank you for having
me. Charlotte, you and I have known each other
probably a couple years now in some of my other
social work roles with some of the work you do
in our statehouse, and I'm going to let you introduce
yourself. Awesome. Let our listeners and viewers
know who you are. Thank you. So as everybody
said, my name is Charlotte Warren and I serve
now as a lobbyist. I never thought I would hear
myself say those words, but I am working with
Moose Ridge Associates, which is a lobbying firm
in the state of Maine, led by and founded by
Betsy Sweet. He's awesome. Who's awesome. And
Laura Harper and John Hennessy, also awesome.
members of of our group um and so that's that
is what i do now in the legislature is i'm doing
a mostly advocating on behalf of mental health
and substance use disorder symptoms excuse me
systems is a lot of the work that i'm doing and
then i do a lot of also um sort of peripheral
social justice work, if that makes sense. Yeah.
What I love about you and your Moose Ridge team
is I feel like you represent and are a voice
for the partners, the agencies, the organizations,
associations that you represent there. And you
help us with some strategy and you help kind
of map out. What are we looking to get done?
Does it align? And if so, what are the other
partners we can bring in? And then how do we
move it forward? You are so skilled at laying
out strategy. Thank you. And part of that, I
appreciate that. Part of that is that I was on
the other side for eight years, right? So I started
my... consulting firm in um 2012 and my consulting
firm is just called c warren consulting and um
so i was doing some legislative work starting
in about 2007 2008 when i joined the main women's
lobby yeah and so i i had that sort of experience
and then i figured out all right i'm going to
try to get there and be one of those i need to
have a vote yeah Right. It's like you can kind
of see what things needed to be fixed. And I
spent some time kind of on the outer edges trying
to get things fixed. And I was like, I got to
go get there. I got to have a vote. So I ran.
I got elected and I ended up serving for eight
years in the main legislature. And I think it
really has allowed me to see the process both,
you know, first as the associate director of
an organization. And we had a lobbyist. Right.
And then doing some direct work on my own, then
serving as a legislator and now coming full circle
back into the building with a whole bunch of
sort of new experience also about what those
different roles are. And new relationships. And
new relationships. Yeah. What years did you serve?
I got elected in 2014. Okay. And so I started
my service in 2015, the January of 2015, and
I served for eight years. So until, what is that?
23. 23. So through the first half of COVID. Yes.
Wow. Yes. We were through, I did two years of...
chairing the Criminal Justice and Public Safety
Committee 100 % over Zoom. Wow. And I will tell
you, I thought I had stamina, good attention
before doing 12 -hour Zoom hearings. Yeah. Oh,
I cannot imagine. Zoom really allowed me to...
learn a little bit about my skills yeah I think
it allowed a lot of us to learn about our skills
we all had to sort of lean in in a different
way yep yeah yeah do you I'm curious like from
when you got in to as you left did you notice
any dramatic shifts in the tides the vibes the
the political discord no 100 in just eight years
time 100 i've always been um somebody that tells
the truth no matter right no man literally no
matter right um even if people don't want to
hear it um i believe in my truth and and i'm
i believe in my right to share it yeah And I'm
and part of my work is to help other people believe
in their truth and believe in their value to
share it. And so I've always been just sort of
100 percent who I am. And I saw the reaction
to who I am change. as the world outside of the
legislature changed. And specifically, I can
talk about specific examples of where my sort
of behavior and what I was sharing on social
media and my beliefs, I don't feel like they
really changed. But all of a sudden, I sort of
became a target. in some ways of what we saw
change outside. And so, yes, I started as an
elected official. Now, I also want to say that
I served as mayor and I served on a city council
for 12 years. So I have a long time of sort of
public service. And in that process of serving,
I really experienced something outside of the
work. And we all experienced it. The way we treat
our elected officials has changed. The way we
treat each other has changed. What we agree on
for facts has changed. Right. So that I saw.
Oh, I can't wait. I want to get into that more.
Soren, this is our first guest episode of the
season. Indeed. And I have already done a terrible
job keeping us on track. That's usually like.
Inspired insight, right? Yes. What is your inspired
insight of the week? So focusing on this idea
of advocacy and the importance of political involvement,
I was thinking about the defeatism that I see
in a lot of my colleagues at school, particularly
around politics. And then I look back into history.
and recognize, for example, the social movements
in the 60s and 70s were led primarily by motivated
young people. And I'm not seeing that in my current
generation. I see a lot of politically interested
young people, but these young people are hanging
out in online spaces where they're not taking
tangible, pragmatic action. And I myself am.
part of this. I sit at home and I pontificate
and I consider policy and then I make no tangible
action. Right. And then you nap for seven hours.
Yeah. So my insight would be for young people
to start thinking about how they can get involved
with policy in a tangible sense rather than marinating
in ideas. Yeah. Engaging in actions. I can't
wait to check back in with you when we're done
our time with Charlotte to see if you have some
ideas on what you might offer. That's what I'm
very excited for. Yeah. So my insight, and then
I'll end with you because I want to follow up
with some of these things. What actually reminded
me that we haven't done our insights of the week
conversation yet is when you were talking about
the way we. the way people treat elected officials
and even each other has changed. And so our listeners
know and Sorin knows all too well that I often
look to one of my heroes, pop culture heroes
for insight. None other than Miss Taylor Swift.
So I'm in my Taylor cardigan and I'm wearing
my insight of the week under my cardigan. And
it's a quote Taylor used in her Time magazine
person of the year 2023 article. And she just
very casually dropped this little nugget in the
interview and carried on. And I come back to
it over and over again. And what I love about
it is on the surface. It may not sound kind,
and Taylor is absolutely kind, but I think it
just sums up everything so well. And it's this
trash takes itself out every single time. And
it's this reminder that we don't have to take
a swing at every pitch that's thrown at us. We
don't have to spend a lot of time. putting on
the body armor and planning the defense, sometimes
just the knowledge that the folks that are taking
swings at us or throwing lobs at us aren't worthy
of the return energy, it'll take care of itself.
It takes itself out eventually. And so that's
kind of one of my thoughts. I think that is a
very... Useful insight in most contexts and I
agree with it broadly but I think like on the
topic of American policy and politics a lot of
people expected the Garbage that is currently
head of the federal government to have taken
himself out Many moons ago. Yeah, and yet he
remains in a position of power and I think that
expectation that we will continue to see positive
movement without action is something that has
done a lot of harm to social advocacy in the
last few years. Yeah. But I broadly agree with
that insight. And we're going to get back to
that because I know exactly what you're picking
up from that. Yeah. We will get back to that.
Charlotte, inspired insight for our week. Well,
yes, you actually. gave me the inspired insight.
When we were on our call a couple days ago, and
you shared resistance plus resilience. Yeah.
I just, you know, hallelujah. Yeah. Hallelujah.
Yeah. Right. Like we have got to put those two
things together and not separate them. They have
to be. They have to be. And you will remember
that was one of our closing sentiments from last
season is how do we become part of both the resistance.
And prioritize resilience. Yes. And so we were
talking about that being a theme as we come into
some other activities we're doing. So I'm curious,
what are your thoughts on that? How do we balance
this need, especially now, this need to do something
and fight back and prioritize wellness and self
-care? You know, I was thinking of it on my drive
up this morning. And as everybody else. We have
a lot of, I have a lot of stuff roaming around
in my head right now that's, I'm not ready to
prognosticate about what happened in November
and what, who did what wrong, right? Right now,
I'm sitting back and I'm kind of watching and
I'm gathering information. And one of the things
that Vice President Kamala Harris said during
her race was, There's a lot of young women out
there not aspiring to be humble. She said, you
know, many of us aren't aspiring to be humble.
And that really resonated with me because I'm
not aspiring to be humble to make a bunch of
other people feel comfortable either. But I'm
also not aspiring to be a martyr. Yeah. Right.
Right. I do not aspire to be superwoman. Right.
Right. We do a lot of that like, you know, I'm
doing everything. No. I don't aspire to doing
everything. Right? Yeah. Well, and somebody educated
me years ago around racial justice and anti -supremacist
movements, especially in the field of social
work, that to rest is to be part of the resistance.
To rest and gather and pause and collect thoughts.
is pushing back against supremacist culture,
where it's drive and produce and more, more,
more all the time. To rest is to be part of resistance.
And it's that trickster energy is one way it's
referred to, right? That trickster energy of,
you know, maybe my ancestor, just to keep what
you're saying, maybe my ancestor. An African
-American person in the field couldn't rest,
could not stop from picking the cotton because
the master was there with the whip. Right. But
that that person of color now. Yeah. Yeah. Rest.
Right. Right. And we talk about it a lot. Right.
We talk about these. What was it? People were
talking about like quitting. What was that term?
Quiet quitting. Quiet quitting. Yeah. Right?
I say to people all the time, you know, you get
to decide how much you get paid in Iowa. Yeah.
You just work less and how much you get paid
in Iowa goes up. You know, like there's that
tricky energy or trickster energy that I think
we all need to be using. As part of the resistance.
Right. Because it's true. Capitalism and the
patriarchy and all of that, it'll just grind
us right down into the ground. Yeah. And I thank
you for saying that because I I just mentioned
this to you recently as well. Part of for my
husband and I, part of our intentionality of
rest is to unplug the news. Like I you and I
have talked about this. I said. When it became
clear in November what was happening, I said
to my husband, I looked at him and I said, I
can't do what we did from 2016 to 2020. I cannot
live like that again. So I need to figure out
how to give myself permission to not scroll any,
all of it, all day long and marinate in. What
are they doing? What are they changing? Whoever
that is, I can't live like that again. You, my
friend, don't necessarily have that luxury, especially
in our state politics, but also federally. This
is your job. Your job is to be aware. So what
are you doing to balance that with this idea
of resilience and rest? Well, for one, I really
do feel like right now what's happening federally
is completely beneath all of us. Trash. I don't
have time for it. I'm not interested in it. I'm
not paying attention to it. And the reason I'm
not paying attention to it is although I think
people do see it as my job. I'm not lobbying
in Congress. Yeah, not really. Right, right.
I'm not. That's not my job. Yeah. And what we're
going to see this administration do is throw
a whole bunch of stuff. Yeah, flood the zone.
Yeah. And everyone's, not everyone, some people
are going to run around responding to all of
those things. Yeah. And that's fine. I don't
want to critique what anybody else is doing.
I'm not doing it. Yeah. It's beneath me. Yeah.
And that is how I feel about it. And I'm not
paying attention to it. And when the call for
resistance comes, I suspect people know how to
get in touch with me. That's right. Right? And
when my trans brothers and sisters need me to
stand up and take action, you can bet I'm part
of it. Right? And all the other things, you can
bet I'm part of it. But that doesn't mean I need
to be glued to my cell phone. or allowing that
information into my house. Yeah. I no longer
listen to public radio. Yeah. And the reason
I don't listen to public radio is I would not
let a dumb rapist into my house. Right. And I'm
not going to listen to one inside my house. Right.
And so. Solitarily. I'm not going to do it. Right.
And so, like, I miss my public radio. But. Right
now, I have to take care of myself. Yeah. And
I don't think that there's anything that Charlotte
Warren can control about what's happening in
D .C. right now. That's right. Now, if there's
an action activity that we need to take, sign
me up. I'm the first one there. And we'll know
about it, right? Like, I read to Derek, like,
you know, one of our concerns is obviously around
the... Targeting doesn't even seem to be the
right word anymore, but the prioritization of
making the LGBTQ community, especially trans
and gender diverse, gender expansive community,
making them the enemy, making them the them.
And what I've said to Derek is, and we're in
complete agreement, I promise y 'all. If he or
they do something that's going to impact our
marriage, that's going to impact our rights,
they're not going to sneak it through. We're
not going to be asleep at the wheel and wake
up tomorrow and suddenly our marriage has been
dissolved. I am connected with enough folks.
I get enough email from all of these organizations.
We're going to know. So I don't have to be front
and center in front of my screen. watching and
waiting and scrolling, like patrolling the wall.
Right. Yeah. I don't have to do that. It's not
going to sneak through. The other zone flooding
that's happening, I honestly don't give a shit.
I cannot be bothered. And I love how you said
it's beneath. It's totally beneath me. I don't
need to know every confirmation hearing, every
executive order. In my world, I am paying attention
to some of those orders, especially gender -affirming
care stuff and what's going on with diversity,
equity, and inclusion, like my livelihood. Absolutely.
But that's sort of the compartment, like, I'll
focus on this so I don't have to focus on the
other 99 % of it. Right, yeah. I feel like what
you guys are speaking to is the importance of
picking and choosing our battles when we have
limited both cognitive and social resources.
That's right. What's your hill that you're prepared
to die on? And then how do you bunker and protect
that thing? Yeah. And in being passive, we can
be part of a resistance simply through not participating
in an organization that we disagree with. That's
right. Or not watching. I get really frustrated
that... All of our news venues are doing exactly
what they want by feeding it to us and jumping
on it. It's so true. And I just don't want to
give it my energy. Yeah. Yeah. And also what
I'm hearing is I think. Politics on both sides
of the aisle has become increasingly reactionary,
especially on the right. And what we're seeing
right now is a massive push from the reactionary
right to dismantle the systems that leftists
have attempted to provide the United States.
And now what we need to do is sit, wait, observe,
and know when to become reactionary in response.
Strategy. Yeah. Craft strategy. I mean, you and
I talk about this on and off camera all the time.
Like, we get frustrated that it feels like there's
this rollover mentality, like knee loss, so licking
wounds. And I get frustrated with, for me, it's
drawing the line of what is rest and what is
apathy and just shrugging shoulders and walking
away from it. I think that's a very difficult
line to draw. Even in this conversation, I'm
like, is that the greatest choice when you guys
are saying some of your like passive whatever?
But I've never been active in a political sphere.
I spend a lot of my time thinking about it, but
I have never taken action outside of some of
the public speaking engagements I've been involved
in. And this. This is big, though. I also want
to say this is elite. Yeah. Yeah. Keep going.
This is what you're doing. This is action. But
keep going. Yeah. I think that a lot of young
people are sitting on the apathy side of things,
whereas a lot of older individuals or people
who have been more politically involved previously
are tired as a dog trying to fight battles for
other people. Right. Right. So it's part of what
I was thinking with my inspired insight. It is
time for young individuals to take a step forward
because I feel like young people, although they
don't have the resources of older individuals,
we are reformers. We are able to view critically
the world around us in a way that people who
have existed in that world for an extended period
of time. can't right and we need to leverage
that in order to advocate for new policy solutions
so what does that look like for you today like
what would a collective uprising of young voices
what would that tangibly look like and it's okay
not like i don't know yeah i mean i think about
um and i forget the year i the um the march for
our lives group after the um Shoot. Is it Columbine?
That that group. Yeah, I can't remember which.
That group of young people said, uh -uh. And
they were in D .C. They were marching and organizing
marches. Was that Parkland? Parkland. Yeah, I
think it was Parkland. Columbine was in the night.
Yeah. So, yeah, isn't that sad they all blurred
together? That's another topic as well. But that
felt, for the first time, it really felt like
here are young people. doing something and they
got torn to shreds right yeah we knew they would
they got torn to shreds but that looked like
young people doing something and arguably they
did they drew a lot of attention to it but i
don't know short of like taking to the streets
what does that look like now yeah like that's
that's what i was thinking too because no legislation
has been enacted At a federal level to introduce
some amount of gun reform. Right. As a result
of that, there have been no concrete actions
to attempt to mitigate or reduce school shootings.
Right. And I think that's some of the conflict
that I have, especially like with my evaluation
of what I'm doing. Yeah. Spreading awareness
is action, but it's not results. Yeah. Right.
Let me challenge you on that. Because I think
it gets back to what Charlotte was saying and
what your mom and I tell you all the time. You
giving voice to all of the topics we're talking
about is action. Is it measurable in the sense
of ballot box? Maybe not yet. But I'm curious
what other metrics we might think about where
action... And results, like what are the other
ways to measure results? And is it changing minds?
Is it shifting hearts? Is it only passing bills
or getting people elected? So what are the metrics
when you think about results? Are you thinking
in terms of here's the new policy, here's the
new law, or here's the person sitting in the
office? Well, OK, I think as a result of us living
in a democracy. To some extent, swaying other
individuals' opinions is results because that
has a tangible translation into policy, right?
To votes. However, I think that the only time
when we're going to see tangible results is when
those people that we convince go out and vote
or go out and get involved in a movement that
results in policy shifting. When these things
become visible is when it manifests in a shifted
policy. But until that is the case, our action
is not doing anything, right? And I'd be curious
to hear what you think. As a policymaker, the
duality of, like, sort of the utility of advocacy.
So important. So important. And that's the thing,
Soren. You showing up and being who you are is
so big. It is so important, right? So let me
tell you what I mean about that in presence of
the legislature. Hearing different people's stories,
being able to connect some policy that we're
trying to change or... or destroy or create or
modify, it all needs to be accompanied by humanity.
What makes it real? It can't just be, you know,
theoretical discussions, right? It has to be
based in our people, our communities, our collections,
right, of groups. It has to be seen. In order
to affect. And that's why I think, you know,
doing this podcast, sending a letter to the editor,
reaching out to a lawmaker, what all of those
things and just even being who you are and sharing
who you are is advocacy. Right. And resistance.
And resistance and important. Yep. Yes, and resistant
and important. And here's another thing that's
resistance. And this is one I'm trying to get
other people to agree with me on. So let's see
if you guys agree with me. I think another form
of resistance is using our own wisdom and not
needing to be and not needing to do. And maybe
this is just something that we as lefty progressives
do. Right. We don't need to be surprised again.
Yeah. That's the part that is irritating me about
this more than anything else is people like,
oh, my God, did you see what he did? Right. It's
expected. This is a pattern of things. I don't
know why it irritates me so badly, but it really.
Irritates me. It's like we give up our own personal
agency and our personal agency of I know stuff.
I know what he did. I know who he is. And if
I act surprised by it, aren't I like going back
on like... what I was trying to say the whole
time. That's right. Yeah. Well, for me, it's
that it's not it's disingenuous and it's that
performative pearl clutching of can you believe
that? And those of us in the queer community
on November blank, the day after when we woke
up, those of us in this community looked at each
other and said. Mark my words. Day one. That's
exactly what I said. Mark my words. And sure
enough, day one. And like I, it's even now cliche
for Project 2025, but it's a thing, right? It
literally mapped out. Yep. And those of us that
have been targeted by those policies and politics
for decades, we knew. We knew what was coming.
He told us. They told us. Yes, like, this is
something that voters have been aware of. And
I was talking to one of my friend's parents who
did vote for Donald Trump. And he was like, why
is all of this happening? I don't know what's
going on. And I'm like, you want to be like,
this man took a bat out of a box, went and...
Wind it up, and now you're shocked when you got
hit in the head? Right. Like, what? Right. That's
such a good way to say it. You sat there, and
you were like, yeah, come, come. Right. Well,
and I would suggest the moment that box was checked
on the ballot, the bat was already pulled back
a bit swaying and coming our way. Yeah, like,
yeah. So this idea that you are surprised. I
agree. And I don't know. And I try to be patient
about it because I know that people in my own
circle just love the drama. Yes. They love that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Talk about the bad stuff. Right.
And I'm the kind of person like if there's a
pile of dog shit over there, I'm looking for
the flowers. Right. That's right. And that's
just my own personality. Yeah. Right. Like I
don't want to. I'm not interested in spending
so much time, you know. Filling whatever that
is, wallowing, talking about it, sharing it.
It's that I can't. Because that's resilience
and resistance. That's pulling it all together,
I think. It's sitting back into your own wisdom.
Yeah. Right? And sitting back into your own truth
of knowing some stuff. Yeah. One of the things
that you and your colleagues taught me years
ago. was the importance of strategy and planning.
And I think it speaks a little bit, Soren, to
what you were saying about what are the tangible
results. Some of this stuff is measured in years.
And so the conversation we have today might not
result in policy change for two more election
cycles, but we started it, right? The groundwork
was laid, right? And it's the idea of the long
game. And that... When we had these conversations
years ago, it equally frustrated me. Yes. But
also got me thinking about possibility and how
do we then redefine the metric of the conversation
we're having today might not yield results for
years. Right. It's almost like dropping pennies
in a well. Yeah. Right. You have to drop a lot
of pennies in the well before they get. so high
you can see them above the water line doesn't
mean the pennies aren't there. Yeah, I love that
analogy. Right? They're still in the well. Yeah.
You just have to drop a lot of pennies for them
to start coming up above the water. And for me,
it's, you know, when I graduated college in 1994,
you know, young, queer, trying to figure out
my place in the world, right? And I was part
of an organization at UMF. It was a gay straight
organization. And we were like we were working
on like having civil rights. Right. Right. Having
access to civil rights, which meant that we couldn't
be fired for being gay or lose our housing for
being gay. Right. Yeah. I my first job right
out of college was as a teacher. Yeah. Right.
Right. And so I was very concerned about my employment
and my housing. And and and and sort of was working
on that policy fight. And then in my brain, look
how fast we got to marriage equality. Right.
Yeah. Right. Yeah. Very rapid shift. Right. And
so but what I needed to remember was all the
years. All the other pennies. All those pennies.
Yeah. Right. Yeah. And that two things. One,
we define our win. Yeah. Yeah. We define our
win. Right. And that was like one of the first
lessons I learned in policymaking. There is not
the win cannot be. We got all the green lights
or we got all the red lights. Right. It has the
voting in the in the chambers. Right. It has
to be something different than that because we're
not going to get all the green lights on everything
in one year. That's right. That's right. Right.
It's that long game that. The actions we have
now, today, might impact some of those green
lights, too, for even six years from now. You
know, one of the episodes that Soren and I did
last season was an episode we kind of called
Generations of Pride, and it was for the lived
experiences of four male -bodied folks representing
different eras. I love that. And one of my favorite
people, mentors, Frank Brooks. was with us and
i know you know france who and you know frank
talked about um living through the aids epidemic
and then building the organization that is now
what we know is equality maine and this and and
then what happened in the state of maine after
marriage equality was passed and folks just kind
of went yep done and equality main set uh -uh
and re -energized and revamped that But I think
about all those pennies in that well that you
reference and all the wishes that every one of
those pennies represents and how it takes the
collective energy of piling up before you actually
see it. And I think what I'm hearing over and
over again that you know all too well, Sorin,
as a queer young person in public school is the
amount of people that I consider really dear
friends who are so disconnected. from this idea
of queer rights not starting and stopping at
marriage. And how much is now being talked about
in terms of whether we're talking gender -reforming
care or diversity, equity, inclusion. But the
new face of the gay rights movement is really
the trans, non -binary young people. You all
are the new face of what we knew as marriage
equality. And so your passion for change and
tangible, a metric of change, I get it. Because
I think I hear you saying you were there. And
I wonder your thoughts, Soren, on being the new
thing that the right and the left are moving
around the chessboard. I think that minority
groups have consistently been used in politics
as a pawn. Yep. Since the beginning of time.
Yes. And I have a lot of opinions on the place
of social dynamics in politics. I like to focus
more on the socioeconomic end of things. Yeah.
But I think what I'm recognizing primarily...
in especially the right and their crusade against
transgender individuals is a simple lack of understanding
of reality. Right. They have created a straw
man that they can attack, which serves to reinforce
my point that we are pawns being in a political
order. Totally. Straw person. The non -binary
straw person. Yum. Yeah. As a young person, I
think in viewing all of this, it's easy to feel
misunderstood by the institutions around you,
and we obviously are. But because of that, I
think a lot of young people are incentivized
to not interact with those institutions, but
in order to introduce the change that we desire.
we need to interact with those institutions.
And I like the idea of defining our victory.
Where is the goal? Right. There is no goal. We
will never achieve utopia. But we can always
push from where we are to that ideal, right?
And as Charlotte said earlier, showing up in
the world as your authentic self is a way you
interact with those institutions. as a form of
resistance you know i think about laverne cox's
quote like i'm not interested in being erased
and we've all queer people we've always we ain't
going anywhere right so you can scrub the website
yeah you can take the words out of the grant
applications you can delete the data but every
day that you charlotte every day we show up in
the world as our authentic self It is a giant
little finger to all of those institutions who
seek to erase you. I think something that I find
so distasteful on the social right is this desire
to purify culture towards an arbitrary ideal.
That's right. Whereas I think a lot of the social
movements that I see on the left are in attempt
to... have common culture be indicative of the
actual social conditions on the ground. And allow
individuals who are existing to be shown in the
common eye. Whereas a lot of people on the right
and a lot of the social movements on the right
focus on creating a purified mainstream in which
only certain social conditions can be shown.
And I think through that they are abstracting
reality and attempting to obscure issues for
their own gain. A thousand percent. But that's,
yeah, I don't know. I'm just commenting on the
right now. This is I'm allowed. No, but it's
so true. It's so true. Well, I think you're highlighting,
Soren, that in order, part of advocacy is also
understanding some of the dynamics at play, right?
And so you don't have to... live in Augusta or
watch every Zoom hearing, you don't have to be
boots on the ground day in and day out to understand
the issue and to take a role in the strategy
to define what you are when. You get to lay out
the strategy at the same time you get to define
your when. Regarding intangible action and boots
on the ground, even though As we agree, it's
not necessary for every individual to be engaging
with. I'd be curious to hear how you, Charlotte,
first got involved in politics and what sorts
of organizations other young people can strive
to become involved with. You know, it's such
a good question. And I wonder, I sometimes wonder
myself, like, what sparked this? When did it
start? I remember being well, first of all, I
think just inherently because of who I am and
who I was as a child. I was my mother is is a
very born again Christian person. She's she's
very evangelical. I was raised in a church that's
free Methodist. So they're not just Methodist
like they're like one step. Leveled up. They're
leveled up Methodist. Yeah. You know, they're
born again. It's the tent revival, the whole
thing. Like we had church camp. So just trying
to give you the picture of where I came from.
And I was born a badass. You know, I just was
born this way. I was. Yeah, I was. And my mom.
God bless her. She really I mean, we have a great
relationship now. I'm 54. You know, my mother
is 78 and we have a great relationship. I got
to keep her inside the line sometimes, you know,
and she's open to that. She knows she's got to
be kept inside the line sometimes. But I was
a real tomboy. And and so I sort of had to start
advocating early on behalf of myself. And somewhere
along the line, I got the knowledge, thank you,
thank you, thank you, thank you to whoever I'm
saying thank you to. I got the knowledge that
just because my mom thought I was wrong and the
church thought I was wrong, I didn't think I
was wrong. I thought they were wrong. Somewhere
along the line, I knew as a young person that
I did not want to be judgy. And that I did not,
I remember having the term, I'm not going to
judge until I've walked in your moccasins. I
don't know where I got the term from. But I remember
being very young and sitting back. And so that
sort of informed, you get the picture of like
how I. I sort of came and then I sort of just
became this person that had experienced some
real unfairness in my childhood. My sister is
very feminine. She's very traditional. My brother
is very much a boy. And then here I was in the
middle and I'm very much a woman, but I wasn't
what my mother thought I should be, right? And
so I sort of became this one -woman show of like,
I'm okay, even though you don't like me this
way. Where did that confidence come from? I have
no idea. I think part of it is I had a dad and
a nana. who believed in me, and they thought
I was the best thing they ever saw. They thought
I was the best thing they ever saw. So you can
make it through that resilience. Resilience happens
even if you just have one person who believes
in you, right? And so I have this, like, I can
feel unfairness in my body. And I will not abide
it. Yeah. You can't sit with that. I can't sit
with it. I can't sit with it. It has gotten me
into unbelievable trouble in my life. And I've
learned really great lessons from that trouble.
And I don't have regrets about the trouble I
created. Yeah. Because I learned that it was.
In order to be true to myself and be my authentic
self, I was going to have to ruffle some feathers.
Because there's a lot of times you don't have
a choice. How do you balance the feeling of when
you are sitting with that injustice, right? When
you are watching people you care about harmed,
how do you balance that with... recognition that
there's no immediate gratification in the work
that you do. Again, like we said, some of it's
going to come years from now. How do you balance
the need for change with knowing the strategy
it's going to take? I lean into my own wisdom.
And my own wisdom tells me that movements are
not just 12 years long. And that if I really
want to understand the struggle, I should go
back and try to do a little learning about what
black women have gone through in this country.
Take perspective. Right. So I take a lot of perspective.
But also, like, I try to keep myself in the world
that I live in as opposed to the world I wish
I lived in. Yeah. Staying grounded. I'm grounded.
Right. Like I I want to just not I'm not surprised
by things because, you know, when somebody shows
me who they are, I believe them the first time.
Right. Maya Angelou. I live by that. But I also
spend a lot of time. I think I talk with my hands
a lot. I spend a lot of time observing. Yeah.
And then trusting my own observations. Are mine
the same as yours? No. Are mine maybe not the
same as 50 %? Not. Yeah. Still true. Still valid.
Still here. Yeah. Still here. Still having a
hell of a time. Yeah. Right? Still having a hell
of a time. And so I think, I don't know if that
helps answer your question of how I do it, but
the work is never going to be done. Right? I'm
never going to be like, there. Right? I don't
know, right? But I find so much joy in the trying.
Yeah. And the joy in the meeting, the people
along the journey. I got to tell you, this work
of trying to create change, it has exposed me
to most unbelievable people. And then I just
have like really big self -care strategies. Yeah.
Right. And now we even got people judging self
-care. Yeah. Right. People are like this. And
it's like, I just want everyone to have their
own self -care. What works for you. Right. I
mean, let's trust that people are experts on
their own lives. Yeah. And that if we can really
encourage people to get to their own wisdom.
Yeah. Yeah. Right. Self -care becomes so much
easier when you know yourself and you know what
you need. And, you know, I mean, my friends pick
on me so much about certain things, right? I
don't go to a lot of things that everybody else
goes to. I say, you know, some people have FOMO,
fear of missing out. I have JOMO, joy of missing
out, right? You know, and everyone's got, you
know, some sort of theory about what, you know,
I need connections. Yeah. You can't do this.
You should do this. And I'm like, you take care
of your self -care. Yeah. I think I'm doing all
right. There's that confidence again. Yeah. That
confidence. You take care of your own, you know,
I know what I need. Yeah. You know what you need.
You know what you need. Right? And so I think
that's got to be a big piece of it. Yeah. What
I'm hearing is a lot of conviction and confidence
and the importance of that in resilience. We
need to believe in ourselves and the validity
of our ideas in order to allow them to change
the world around us. So thank you for saying
that, Soren, because I'm just in awe of... The
confidence. And you radiating that confidence,
I like sit in it and I feel like my posture,
like, yeah, we got this. It's infectious. So
thinking about your question about resources
then, Charlotte, what would you give folks Soren's
age, even younger, if... If somebody who's not
quite 18 yet, so that idea of a boat doesn't
quite exist yet, but they want to get involved,
what would you suggest to school -age youth?
What can they do? Reach out to somebody you trust
who will invite you in. And I think a lot of
people in Augusta or... at Bangor City Hall or
Brewer City Hall or wherever the sort of seats
of government are, right? We do a lot of sort
of, there's a lot of sort of talking about who
should do what and what it looks like. But there's
not a lot of just like, come join. Right, have
a conversation. Come be part. And I think there's
this expectation that everyone's going to like
figure it out of their own. And really my thing
is like, Would you like to come be at the Statehouse
a day with me? Right. I say that to young people
all the time. You know, that an invitation. Yes,
it was. Soren's eyes went, oh, come spend the
day with me. And I do mean that. Right. Like
like I you know, when I was mayor of Hallowell
and. We were trying to figure out a way to get
people to come to meetings or be involved. Right.
And I really saw it as. And some people I was
working with really started to say, we need them
and they're not doing it. And I really was like,
well, what are we doing wrong? Right. It's my
responsibility as mayor to figure out how to
invite those people in. Right. How do I do that?
Right. And so I think. It's on me and it's on
all of us to figure out a way to not sit around
and go, why aren't they showing up? But to figure
out a way to go and get them. Yeah. And to bring
them with me. And what I say to people all the
time is, you want to come to the statehouse?
You let me know. I'll meet you down at the screeners.
Because that's like the biggest thing is like
just getting into the building the first time.
Yeah. Right. Because it's it's a scary place
for the first time. Yeah. And not understanding.
I know this was true for me, not understanding
the process. And I and and I use that term process
like I don't just mean like how bills are created.
I mean, how do you get in? Yeah. What are the
rules? You know, like, do you have to dress a
certain way, act a certain way, be a certain
way? Am I allowed to bring my. Mug of coffee.
Like, what are the rules? And 100 % take away,
like, the mystery of what happens. And what I
learned very early on, it's just another place.
Yes. It's just another place. And it's another
place that you own. Right. And that's what I
try to say all the time to people. That statehouse
is your house. Yeah. It does not belong to the
lawmakers. It does not belong to the governor.
It does not belong to the lobbyists. It belongs
to the people of Maine. But I have people say
to me, you know, when I'm like, OK, we're going
to go in this public hearing or we're going to
go in this work. And they're like, are we allowed
to be in there? Yeah. You're not only allowed
to be in there, you're expected to be there.
This is yours. This is yours. Right. So I would
say. To anyone that's a young person or even
an older person who wants to get involved but
doesn't know what to do, reach out to somebody
who's already doing it. Could I come along with
you? Could I go to that meeting? Right? And do
it. And go the first time. And the first time
will be the hardest time. Because you have all
those questions. Right? And of course you do.
It's a place of a lot of rules and pomp and circumstance.
Yes, it's the pomp and circumstance. That for
me is the most intimidating part. And when you
go there and you realize that there's not as
much pomp or circumstance in real life than there
was up here. Like the pomp and the circumstance
I thought I was going to see. Yeah. Totally absent.
Like, it's just another place. Exactly. Yeah.
I hope you do show up. And we're going to talk
more about this. Oh, we'd have so much fun. You
would have so much fun. And what you would bring
back to your peer group, that could be the next,
like, I'll rent a bus. Yeah. I will pay to rent
a bus to have you and your peeps show up. Yeah.
And for me, again. Being your authentic selves
and being in the stands so that you can't be
erased, that you're you're not out of sight,
out of mind to the people making the laws. I
think that is perfect. Yep. And I have something
to offer. Right. For all young people, I have
something to offer. And I just want to say this
world is yours. You guys are going to get this.
Right? This is yours. And you get to shape it.
That's right. You know? I mean, it is. And we,
laming pile of... I know. Sorry. We need you
to shape it. You and I have talked about this
too. We need you to shape it. For sure. Charlotte,
thank you so much for this. This was, like, amazing.
I, um... again your inspiration and your confidence
I hope it was helpful it's infectious it absolutely
is so I want to round back to you as we close
does action feel different does tangible results
is it starting to feel a little different I spend
a lot of time engaging with like system builders
like Marx for example and I have a lot of like
very extreme like alias ideas in my mind right
and I think what this conversation has done for
me has it has drawn me back to sort of like what
do tangible results look like and how can I act
in a tangible way in order to forward rather
than a like semi -concrete ideal that is way
off in the middle of nowhere. Yeah. I think this
has made me a lot more energized. It's very energizing.
I can't see it in your face for sure. But I don't
know if my ideas around what progress looks like
have shifted. Yeah. We'll have to see. We'll
take the bus. We'll get the bus. We'll fill it.
We'll take it. We'll hang out there for a day.
And my sense is the energy that you pick up from
an experience like that might help you start
rethinking about what are my metrics? And how
am I going to define my win? What's a win for
me? I love it. Do you have any words of wisdom,
parting thoughts for us? The words of wisdom
are coming from what Soren said, and I just need
to circle back to it. Because, Soren, you said
it so clearly, and I don't think you really even
realized it, that one of the ways we're going
to make social change is by changing ourselves
and each other. Because we're living, why are
we living? This is my question. Why are we surrounded
by people who don't think what's happening in
D .C. is beneath them? Right. What's happening
with us as people? How do we see ourselves? How
do we treat ourselves? Why are we willing to
put up with certain things? And I would say that
it has to do with... The way we're treating ourselves.
We give a lot of space for a lot of bad behavior.
That's right. That's right. We give people permission
to treat us those ways. And then we internalize
that as if it's an expectation, as if this is
what I deserve. So we collectively need to just
rise up. Let that shit roll. Yeah. I agree. Yeah.
What I sort of got from that is, to a great extent,
hierarchy is enforced by the people at the bottom
of it. Bingo. Yeah. And in order to reject that
hierarchy, we need to reject what is inside of
us that is aiding in the enforcement of that.
Yes. Yes. Right? What is behind the simple statement
of, I will not comply? I won't be complicit.
That's right. Right? And that's what that thing
is of every time unfairness. Even when people
are like, oh, my God, here's Charlotte again.
Yeah, right, right, right. Yeah, and it's kind
of, again, full circle moment of getting back
to this idea of rest and resilience that being
complicit does not look like rest. They're two
different pieces. So I can be resting. and still
be just as fired up about all that's happening,
even though it might not look on the outside
like I'm fired. 100%. Well, this has been awesome.
I thank you so much. Thanks for the invitation.
Well, any time. This was delightful. Next time.
Folks, my feet come under you. So on behalf of
the podcast and our listeners and Inspired Insights,
thank you so much. I've been Chris McLaughlin.
I've been Soren Peterson. And I've been Charlotte
Warren. Thank you so much. Thank you. We'll see
you next week. Bye. The Inspired Insights podcast
has been brought to you by Inspired Consulting
Group, LLC. Edited and produced by Amanda Seidel
and Derek Carter. Marketing support for the Inspired
Insights podcast by Elizabeth Keenan. Music by
Derek Herter. Please visit www .inspiredcg .com
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