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Hi, I'm Soren. Soren! I feel like I've just started every episode screaming Soren!
Hi Soren, welcome back!
Hi!
Next episode of The Inspired Insights podcast, I'm Chris McClellan.
I'm Soren Peterson.
What have you been up to lately?
You know, it's been summer. I've been liberated out on the town and such. I've been doing
a few public speaking gigs of late.
Oh, that's right. Yeah, you've been doing like a speaker's tour.
I've been saying speaker's tour. I've been going to some relatively small speaking things
for our local hospital.
And I've found it super rewarding.
Oh, I want to talk about this. Let's start with what has been your inspired insight of
the week.
So my inspired insight is involved with public speaking. And it is how rewarding it can be
to both feel like you're advocating for a cause that you believe in and feel like you're
being heard.
I have found it incredibly rewarding to share my experiences publicly and my insights and
feel like I'm making a change.
And I think that's something super innate in humans. We need to feel like we are being
useful and creating progress. And through my advocacy work, I've been getting that positive
emotion.
That's so cool.
And that's so cool. We're going to talk about this. We're going to break this way down.
My inspired insight for the week has been something. It was a meme that I saw floating
around the Insta-box. And it essentially says that your greatest test as a human will be
how you handle the people who have mishandled you.
Really speaking to me about this idea of how when they go low, we go high. And rising above
the criticism and the noise. And learning to forgive.
Yeah. And we did a whole episode on handling criticism. And I feel like the way that we
interact with those who are spewing negativity at us says less about them and more about
us.
Your spot on.
Like the way that we react to stimuli is a comment on us rather than a comment on the
stimuli.
Yeah.
I feel.
It's been interesting. And you and I have talked about this off air. It's been interesting
as season one is out there and folks are starting to respond to it and we're starting to get
some feedback and some questions.
And people want to learn more. It's been interesting.
Interesting might not even do the word. I because of some of my experiences that we
talked about last season with criticism in my work on a school board in my town and being
just kind of a very, very vocal and visible advocate for queer youth and the families
who love them.
I've been waiting for this other shoe to drop so far. We're hearing so much cool stuff
about the inspired insights podcast. People are reaching out letting us know that it inspired
a conversation in their house that they found some nuggets to take back to the school or
to the patient experience rooms.
And I've been I'm feeling myself waiting for that other shoe to drop and it hasn't dropped
yet.
But I feel like I've been conditioned to expect it now.
Yeah.
I think I'm a sort of blind optimism approach to it. Like I feel like to some extent and
I noticed this public speaking. The audiences I was addressing wholeheartedly agreed with
everything that I was saying and were prone to respond positively to it.
And I think the audiences that we are reaching with this podcast as of right now in its early
stages are primarily people that will respond positively to it.
They're choosing to listen for all the right reasons.
Exactly.
All the reasons we want them to. Yeah. To your point, you know, you've done more than
a handful of some public speaking events of late and I've been able to listen to a couple
of them or be part of a couple of them with you.
And you're right. Folks are there for a reason. They're there with curious minds looking to
learn and really turning to you for your lived experience, your lived perspective as somebody
who's experienced various kinds of health care, whether that's behavioral health or even
primary care.
And they're looking for you to help teach them how to do this differently.
And maybe in that doing it differently, we can find better.
Yeah. And I think it's so it's very important for health care providers to listen to patients
for feedback.
But I think it's so, A, it's a fantastic opportunity and B, I feel like unworthy to step up and
critique these medical professionals on what they've been educated in.
I don't feel like I'm really in a position to do that. I'm not esteemed enough. And yet
I'm one of the few that are willing to speak publicly on it.
That's right. Let me give you an analogy. And it's one of my favorite analogies to use
when I talk about feedback in health care or feedback in some of these really nuanced
fields. When you go out to eat and you order something on the menu, you're ordering it
because you have a it's going to be a new restaurant restaurant you've never been to
right and you order something on the menu because you think you're going to like it.
You have a sense of what's going to come in front of you. You have a sense of the ingredients,
maybe the flavor profile. You might not know how to cook it, but you have a sense of what
you're expecting. Yeah.
And then they bring that plate out and they set it in front of you and they take the top
off and go, and it looks like complete dog food. Yeah. And you smell it and it smells
like dog food and you taste it and I've not eaten dog food, but we have this imagination
of what dog food might taste like and it tastes like complete dog food. You're no chef. You
know, you're not you're not an expert in culinary arts, but you still know what you
like and you still know what you've come to expect. Yeah.
You don't have to give the chef feedback on do more of this less of this add this subtract
this, but the feedback is this was dog food. Never make this again. So that analogy for
me is you don't have to be a Michelin star chef to be able to give feedback on what the
experience of eating the food was like. Yeah. And that's why I view you as the healthcare
advocate. I really like that analogy. And like, I do a little home cooking on my own.
And I'm using that I was mostly taught because I do know you cook. So I realized as I was
using this analogy, I was like, dang, so it's going to beat up on me because Soren does
like to cook, but you get the direction of the. Yeah, I totally get that. And I think
like we can always go to a restaurant. We need to be home chefs for ourselves. That's
right. And the point of the analogy, my friend, was you can give feedback on something without
being the expert. And so I know when you've been doing these, this public speaking, you've
gone into it and left with who the heck am I to be telling Dr. So and so what to do differently.
And my challenge for all of us is to think about we don't have to be the expert to give
our experience on the perspective. Yeah, how did this feel? How did that? Did it land?
Did it not land? And some of your advocacy, especially lately, has been talking about
what worked in your experience and what didn't work. Yeah. Like the other day I got the opportunity
to speak on a panel with three other mental health professionals, specifically in the
gender, from in care space. And I was quite intimidated by it at first. But I think that
I still managed to provide very valuable insights that were specific to my viewpoint, and also
broadly applicable. Yeah. And I think a lot of kids are afraid of sharing their viewpoints
because for our entire lives, we've been dismissed because we're kids. We don't know anything
about anything. But I think in a number of spaces, our viewpoints are even more important
than adults or experts to some extent. Yeah, well, it makes sense to me, especially talking
about pediatrics, or in this case, aspects of gender affirming care or mental health
treatment, it only makes sense to me. And this is part of my philosophy of care as a
social worker and as a provider. I want to ask the people who receive my services, how
it felt in order to get the best feedback, just because the textbooks say this is the
way to deliver this service or this care, doesn't mean it's going to land with especially
some nuanced, unique populations. Yeah, I think it's super difficult to engage with
an evidence based approach in psychology, simply because people are so mentally diverse.
And it's very difficult to have one size fits all. Like in psychology, we use diagnoses
to put people in boxes and tailor their treatment based on the box that they fit into, rather
than them as individuals. And I don't think that that's a productive approach, but it's
the easiest. It's the easiest. And one of the things I've heard you say in some of the
speaking that you've done of the education that you've been providing is one of the things
that you wish in your experience was that your provider built a relationship with you
first got to know you a little bit better before they slammed you in a box and moved
you down the conveyor belt. Yeah, but it's such a deeply personal experience to receive
behavioral health or mental health care that one thing a provider might do differently
is actually take the time to get to know you a little bit because a human. Yeah. And like,
I don't feel like my voice was heard a lot when I was receiving treatment. So now I'm
getting loud like through advocacy, I am making my voice heard. And it's something super liberating.
And I think that kids should be getting loud about issues that they care about a lot more
than they are. Yeah. And actually, one thing about the advocacy that I have been engaging
with that I find to be somewhat perturbing is like the people who are there are prone
to engage with these things and have heard similar things before. So it's kind of like
an echo chamber. Yeah. I don't feel like I'm reaching new people or bringing new ideas
to people. I feel like I'm bringing up the same ideas with a different intent to the
same people. Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah, that's I think an age old conundrum in doing provider
education. You know, you you've helped me you and some of your friends actually helped
me develop a curriculum for LGBTQ plus affirming behavioral health care. And so the folks
that take my courses, my trainings aren't forced to be there, right? They're self selecting
into this. And so they on day one are open and receptive to this kind of feedback. They're
not the folks that I'm worried about in this space. I'm worried about the folks who are
opting out of this kind of education who are a little bit more closed off to receiving
feedback on to put some of that ego aside. You know, in the school setting, I am anybody
that knows me knows that one of my soapboxes in education is it's great to teach teachers
and it's great to teach principals and school social workers and guidance and nursing. I'm
more worried about the bus drivers. I'm more worried about the dietary staff, the folks
working in the cafeteria. I'm more worried about the maintenance of the janitorial staff,
the folks that typically don't get invited to participate in these trainings yet by their
roles. They are with kids all the time. And they're often the first witnesses to things
like bullying or violence or depression, suicidality, anxiety. Bus drivers need to have mental health
first aid training to support that kid who is having a moment on the bus. Yeah. I agree
with you a lot, but also like it's a very difficult position that people who interact
with kids are put in where you're responsible for their mental well being to some extent.
And I don't think that bus drivers signed up to do that. That's right. The role is changed.
Yeah. The roles that we have like parental figures and like people watching over children
is changing rapidly because we need to create more tailored environments. Yeah. And I've
heard it and yes, I agree with you as well. And I don't think you can have it both ways,
right? Yeah. The world is changing. What we know about kids are changing. The behavioral
health crisis which you and I have spoken on this podcast in the past has changed whether
that's before COVID or during or after COVID phenomenon. Part of it really doesn't even
seem super relevant to me. You can't work with children and not expect to need to intervene
at some level with mental health, with bullying, with self-esteem and self-confidence. And just
some of the tidbits that you're talking about what worked for you. I just don't think we
have a luxury anymore of saying, hey, I'm just a bus driver. I didn't sign up for this.
Yeah. I would argue you did. Knowing what we now know about what's going on for kids
today, you signed up for it. Yeah. I think, I don't know, they're service workers. They're
getting paid minimum wage. 100%. I agreed with that. And I'm the first to advocate,
like let's pay people according to the actual responsibility. Yeah. Like if I'm on a custodial
team and my job is to clean the building after when it's empty, after students and teachers
have left for the day, that's a little different for me than somebody who is on site where
kids and faculty are present. And I may be the person who finds the suicide note on the
floor that's fallen out of a locker or a duffel bag. I might be the first responder to a fight
that's broken out. I might be the first responder in a restroom bathroom and I see bullying happening
or I see substance use happening. So the skill set of somebody who's on site with kids during
the day is maybe different to your point than after school hours. Yeah. And maybe the compensation
because the training needs to be different. Maybe compensation needs to reflect that as
well. Yeah. I totally agree. Can I ask you a question? Go for it. What has been your
inspiration to find this voice? What has led you to want to do this advocacy work?
If you've listened to the podcast, you know I love to talk. And I love to think and I like to
think that I can impact others. And I love the idea of creating a positive impact.
And I'm super grateful because I've been given these opportunities primarily by like my mother
because she is super involved or was super involved in the space. And now through her
connections, I've been able to come do some of these speaking events. I would say my muse for
like public speaking is the exhilaration and the showmanship of it. I've done theater my entire
high school career and my middle school career when it wasn't COVID times. And I love being on a
stage. I like all eyes on me. Not necessarily in my daily life, but I like being evocative as well.
And like public speaking just makes me super excited. And like I was quite hesitant at first,
but mama provided me these opportunities. I was like, sure, yeah, I'll do it. And now,
especially after the panel that I did recently, I'm super excited. I want more opportunities.
Yeah, it's getting you fired up. Yeah, I want my voice heard. And it's like, I need to
carpet diem. I need to seize the day. Well, and to your point, so many youth don't feel comfortable
sharing their perspective. And so when like yourself, when there's somebody who's more comfortable,
maybe more confident, or in the absence of comfort or confidence, the ability to put that
aside momentarily to still get the job done. When those folks exist, they're not going to
be able to. And when those folks exist, I think there's a little bit of a calling that, yeah,
I have a voice that I need to lend to somebody who might not be able to right now.
Yeah, I think as kids, we have the like children will be listened to if they shout loud enough.
I think a lot of adults now, given that our youth are in crisis, to a large extent, are far more
open to listening to our opinions, thoughts, and experiences. And we as youth need to take advantage
of that to try to implement some of the changes that we want. And I think like kids are not
brain dead. We have opinions on things, and we want our voices heard. And we have value very
valuable insights. And I think we need to realize that although in the past, our voices haven't
been that powerful, they're growing in strength. And we need to ride that wave and create the
change that we want. Yeah, well, as somebody who's going to be 18 next year, and voting age,
with that, I think comes a responsibility to also get more informed and to start taking
what might be these nuggets of an opinion into some tangible actionable items that you can
exercise before you turn 18. And then certainly when you turn 18 and start start entering the
voting world. Yeah, I totally agree. What's been your biggest discovery about yourself in your
newly found role as advocate? My biggest discovery. I think I've discovered a passion for it to some
extent. And that you're good at. I don't know if I'm not gonna know. You're good at it. And I think I
have discovered a world of people that will listen. When like, I talk often about the viewership of
this podcast, I don't like looking at the youth around me, I don't feel like youth will find
this entertaining or something to engage with. But there are people that find what I have to say
entertaining and valuable to engage with. And my discovery has been people who are interested
in the same things that I am. Yeah. And it's super exciting for me. I feel. And let's let's take it
to you because you've been an advocate and a loud voice in the space for far longer than I have.
What are some of the things that you've yielded and learned from your veteran status as an
advocate? Great question. And I'm gonna maybe do this a little bit of like old man on the mountain
for you. When I first started doing public speaking and training and especially around
queer youth and ways to better support and care for them, I experienced that echo chamber
effect that you were talking about like the people in my audiences wanted to be there.
They sought out this expertise. They were truly invested in changing their practices to do better
for the youth that they are serving. Over time, I found that the audiences weren't
so always so eager and willing to be there. That as DEI and the Diversity and Inclusion
Belonging efforts progressed forward as some of this training has become mandatory and I'll get
back to that idea in a second. Some of my audience members didn't necessarily have a choice to be
there and that is reflected in their body language. That is reflected in their comments. That's
reflected in their feedback both directly to me and then in anonymous surveying afterwards. Like
I'm pretty good at in a group of 30 people. If there's one person or two people who are clearly
telling me non-verbally they don't want to be there, that typically matches their feedback on the
evaluation forms afterwards. And so I think for me it's been learning how to respond to
the negative feedback responding to the very intense criticism and responding to the haters
who think we're overstepping, who think that we need to get back to reading, writing, arithmetic,
and all this stuff about gender and sexuality and blah blah blah. We are indoctrinating the youth.
We're grooming the youth, all of this stuff. And especially over the last three or so years,
I've had to figure out my own skin around that. I've had to figure out how I respond to criticism
and how I respond to criticism externally and how I respond to the criticism internally. And I
will tell you so in the internal response is much harder for me than the external response because
I can put on the professional Chris vibe and I can smile and I can thank you for letting me know
that's really helpful feedback going forward. I really appreciate your thoughts on the matter.
And on the inside, I'm screaming or crying. I'm a quivering mess on the inside. So it's been that
balance for me of finding these new skills and I'm not perfect at it by any stretch.
I think the old man on the mountain to you is those hater voices are out there. They're not yet
in the crowds, but they will be. I don't I really want it actually. I really want to get the opportunity
to reach people that disagree with me and find what I'm saying to be absurd and counter cultural to
the point of it being destructive. And I really want to have conversations with those people.
Like I would love to invite on to the podcast. Someone that wholeheartedly disagrees with
everything that we stand for. And I was cringing at that conversation with them. Well, like,
obviously, it's scary to welcome people who don't like us into our safe space. But without
doing that, we can't expand our safe space. Right. Yeah. And I think I love getting to know
the way that people rationalize our thought processes. I think I've spent a lot of time
rationalizing and trying to understand and unwind my opinions. And I want to do the same
for others and try to reach a common ground. And like, I don't like the echo chamber. I feel
like I'm like just running my wheels in the mud, not getting any getting anywhere. And I just like
you you see that as a bad thing. And I understand how it can be emotionally harmful. And it likely
would be like, oh, quite upsetting to me as well. But also, in those moments where people are
disagreeing with us, and yet, our voices are still reaching them is the greatest opportunity I feel
and the most exciting part of it. Yeah, I am so impressed by and jealous of your optimism
with what can come from two opposing perspectives coming together in meaningful dialogue. I
unfortunately saw and we talked a lot about this in an episode of season one.
I don't necessarily find value in trying to convince somebody that their way is right,
or their way is wrong. And so I let me give you another analogy, you know, I like to speak in
analogies and metaphors, right? Here in our state, we have discovered recently that 25% of
young people, high school students, identify somewhere on the LGBTQ plus continuum, right,
25%, one in four. I am fairly certain that if one in four kids were allergic to bees, every single
adult, every single adult would be trained in EpiPen use. And we would have EpiPens on every
adult person's body, they'd be in hallways, you wouldn't walk 10 steps without being able to grab
an EpiPen. If one in four kids were allergic to bees, adults would be trained to protect 25% of kids.
If 25% of kids are queer, I feel like we as adults have the same responsibility
to protect them. And the way we have protect queer youth is around education, around needs,
proper terminology, stages of coming out, the whole idea of pronouns and dead names and preferred
names, and mental health first aid, the way that we create trauma informed spaces, resist
re-traumatization of individuals. And that's not happening. And so I feel like we have a mandate,
and I don't think Maine is much different than any other state, frankly, in the country. I feel like
we have a mandate though in our state to mitigate risk and train adults to keep 25% of our young
and well. That's not happening. That's one of the soapboxes that I'm out and about with all the time.
I don't care if you believe that allergy to bee stings is real or not. I don't need you
to agree with the science that this is what happens in your body, that this kid isn't faking their
throat closing up, or their body swelling, an anaphylactic shock, for you to be able to deliver
that epi shot. And if you have some philosophical resistance to injecting somebody with a chemical,
then this isn't the job for you. That's how I view, how strongly I view my perspective on
teaching adults how to better care for queer kids. Whether or not you agree with it or not,
if you choose to work in this sector, guess what? These are competencies just like first aid and
other mandatory trainings. This is a part of the mandatory education that you must be part of.
Therefore, the debate on if allergies to bee stings is real or not isn't even relevant
for me. I don't need to convince you of the science for me to do my job.
I totally agree with you. I've echoed very similar sentiments previously.
But at the same time, if these people don't believe in the treatment that they're giving,
or the experience that they children are having, they can't provide that treatment as effectively.
The thing that trainings don't do is create open dialogue effectively because they're imposed on
people rather than creating a common space for two individuals to interact on equal footing.
Yeah. And I think that interacting on equal footing is so valuable to changing minds.
And I like changing minds rather than telling people what's going on. Carrots or
carrots or hammers, right? But I totally agree with you, too. It's difficult.
It is difficult. And again, I respect your optimism around the magic that can happen when two
sides come together. And if we were engaged in a meaningful dialogue around does pineapple belong
on pizza, yes or no, I'll have that discussion. I'm a pro-pineapple person, by the way. Are you
pro-pineapple? I used to only get Hawaiian. Yeah. Oh, now you don't. Well, I just prefer, I hate my
sauce on pizza. I prefer pasta. Got it. So when I have met people who are anti-pineapple on pizza,
I'll have that discussion all day because at the end of that day, what's really on the line
is our taste buds, right? If the world will continue to revolve and no harm comes whether we
get on the same page or not. I don't believe that's the case, especially when we're talking about
queer youth in public education. So for me, there's so much on the line with this topic that
maybe that, as I'm talking about this out loud with you right now, so maybe that is a little bit,
what's driving my perspective on this. We have too much on the line. I can't waste any more time
trying to convince you that pineapple on pizza is really, really yummy. I just need you to serve the
pizza. Yeah. Right. And so I'm also very aware that as much as you and I love the advocacy
roles that we have found ourselves in, there are people this very minute in time who are advocating
justice strongly for the things that we, against the things that you and I stand for. And there are
trainings that happen in our state, in our country, every single day, training people on how to fight
against people like you and I. Yeah. And so there's just like all of this energy into who's right
and who's wrong, that I am so confident that I'm right on this issue, that our kids are at risk.
And if we do not get intentional in creating safer spaces for them, lives are in danger.
I feel to my soul that I am right. I'm on the right side of this issue, that I'm going to continue
to do the advocacy work and not necessarily give a whole lot of more energy to the extreme haters.
Yeah. Does that make sense? I mean, I, I, I really, I love your perspective and I want
to get there. And if we're debating pineapple and pizza, great. When we're debating kids' lives,
I just can't get my head around trying to convince somebody, especially, and I'm going to try to say
this in a way that is as respectful as possible, because I truly do believe that diversity is
important and an element of diversity is religion and an element of diversity is spirituality and
an element of diversity is people's relationship to their God. And as soon as that argument gets
put on the table, I've got to like, I'm out. If, if somebody's, if the crutch of somebody's argument
against what we're talking about is, well, the Bible tells me this or God tells me that,
it's really hard for me as a clinical social worker, as a member of the queer community,
as somebody who makes a living doing this work. It's hard for me to go toe to toe with that.
I love that. You love that piece though. Historically though, like we can look at
the day that, for example, like the passages in the New Testament that people think are like
anti-queer passages that Paul writes about are, and obviously I'm not a biblical expert,
are in the context of like ancient Roman sexual normalities. And most of them are simply talking
about how one should not be heavily promiscuous, like a man should not be having sex with people
in a similar socioeconomic status to him. And a lot of the more like intense wordings are just
straight up mistranslations, especially in the King James Bible. I know intentionally
that that Bible was regularly mistranslated in order to make it more representative of the
worldview in medieval England, which like, I love having those arguments because we can look at the
historicity of these things and we can look at the theological roots of modern religions to
untangle this fact. And you are 150 times more learned in this topic than I am and that I ever
will be. Like I say this to my husband and other family and friends. At my age, the real estate
going on up in my brain is pretty maxed. Like, and if I'm gonna, if this, and I realize I am
dripping with privilege when I say this, if I'm going to fill up any gaps, any holes in the real
estate of my brain, it's going to be with like Taylor Swift, it's going to be with like artwork,
it's going to be with like learning something new for the sake of me. I'm not interested. I don't
have capacity in my brain anymore to fill in more real estate with religious passages or theology.
I'm going to look to folks like you and young people like you that are coming in to this advocacy
space to help me with that toe to toe piece. And all day long, Soren, you and I find ourselves
in the wrestling ring with folks who are throwing that kind of stuff around. My first response is
going to be to turn around, high five you, tag your ret, come on in and I'll go sit back and watch
because I just can't bring myself to even go there. Yeah, this place in my life. I think too,
it's like, I just straight up like theology. I like engaging with it. Like our school at a
like Bible club before school. Oh, yeah, you've talked about this. I went there five or six times.
Like, I like it and I like a lot of Christians, I think, but they're lovely folks. And I don't think
that like bigotry and Christianity are like tied. Let me be super clear by no stretch of the
imagination. I painting folks with a broad brush of all these people feel this way. I am surrounded
by the most caring, compassionate allies who also are regular churchgoers. I'm surrounded by
folks who are have master's degree in theology and they are ranking members of their church
who also are the first to wave at me at the corner of the Pride Parade as we march by. So I
by no means saying all these people are this. I have found some very loud critics. This is part
of the downside of advocacy, right? I have found some of the most loud voices trying to chop me down
happen to also try to cite these justifying there. Hey, give me a religious text. 100%. So I
I think that is one of the risks of being out there as an advocate. And I know
as you continue this journey of advocacy and leveraging your voice, you're going to find
some of those voices. And I love that you are already kind of ready feeling a little bit more
ready than I have been to take some of that on. I look forward to it. I like I really I do want to
have conversations with people that thoroughly disagree with me. Because then when I can change
someone's mind, I feel like I'm really making progress. Like I feel like I'm in the leads of
it like talking to my grandfather and my grandfather's wife. I think that I've transitioned the way
that they view some of these these things quite considerably through my conversations with them.
And that is like that one on one changing minds advocacy is the most exciting part of it for me.
Yeah. And are you feeling okay for those moments in time where you're not going to be able to move
the needle for them? Yeah, I don't resent them for that. And like, I think the more people
perseverate on their opinions, the more entrenched they become in them. And I see this in myself.
I see this in the people around me. And I like specifically in old people. I think that that's
something that's very prevalent. It's confirmation bias, right? Yeah, as humans have a tendency to
seek out information that validates our current world. Yeah. And ignore or dismiss anything that
might challenge our thinking. As humans, we prefer the safety of our own way of thinking.
And when we are challenged, we can bristle, we can stiff arm, we can try to push it away,
like kind of scratch at it like the tag in the back of a new shirt. It's still there,
but we do whatever we can do to try to distance ourselves from it. I think as long as someone
isn't taking action and hurting others with their opinions, it's foolish to resent them for that.
Yes, I agree with that. I like again, I value diversity of thought. As people who are members
of the LGBTQ plus community, you and I, it is so different. We're no longer talking about pineapple
and pizza. We're talking about our lives. Yeah. And so that for me gets a little line in the sand.
Yeah. Let's end on a happy positive note. What has been your favorite advocacy moment of the last
couple months? My favorite speaking engagement was when I got to do the panel brought together by
our very own Derek Harder. Yes. My husband and our designer of the music for our podcast.
Indeed. I came away from that conversation feeling so rewarded and so excited. And also
another favorite advocacy moment for me was I was talking to one of my friends about the queer
experience and they were like, huh, I never thought of it that way. And I was like, wow,
that's very powerful. Yeah. And I think as advocates, we have to similar to what we talked
about in a previous episode just this season about collecting joy as advocates, we have to
collect those moments where we see the needle moving and bank those so we can reflect back on
them when the conversations aren't going so well. Totally. Yeah. I'm so proud of you. I just want
you to know that I'm so proud of this. I really am. I'm so proud of you. It takes strength. It
takes courage. It takes vulnerability to put yourself out there and your story out there
for the world to reflect on it. And you are moving the needle. You may not be able to see the change
right now, but you're moving the needle. So until the next time, I am Chris DeBlois. I'm
Sean Peterson and this has been the Inspired Insights podcast. Thank you so much for listening.