1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,880 Welcome back everyone. Welcome to the Inspired Insights podcast. This week, we're continuing 2 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:09,840 our two-part episode featuring Soren and I's younger brothers. If you haven't already listened 3 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:14,720 to part one, I'm going to recommend that you start there. Once you're caught up, jump back 4 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:20,080 into the conversation with us. The Inspired Insights podcast is for informational and 5 00:00:20,080 --> 00:00:24,720 entertainment purposes only and should not be considered health advice. This podcast is not 6 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:29,680 intended to replace professional medical advice. Please note that this podcast may contain 7 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:34,560 discussions on sensitive topics such as mental illness, suicide, and substance use. If you are 8 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:39,840 experiencing a behavioral health crisis or need support, please contact the 9-8-8 suicide and 9 00:00:39,840 --> 00:01:05,040 crisis lifeline by calling 9-8-8 or visiting www.9-8-8 lifeline.org. Me and Soren, at least in the young 10 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:09,440 age, we're very, very different. Me and Soren were like best friends for years and years and years 11 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:17,360 growing up. We were constantly together. We were always hanging out. It was me, Soren, 12 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:23,120 Nick, and Tim who are our cousins. We were always hanging out every summer. It was like, 13 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:30,080 we're all best friends and everything like that growing up through. And then I feel like that was 14 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:36,800 another thing that made Soren's mental health and everything like that, like the downfall of that 15 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:43,840 so much harder was the loss of that friendship. Because you were not only losing a brother, 16 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:51,280 but you were losing a best friend. And those experiences changed a lot. And then Soren coming 17 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:57,680 out of the like Soren's depression, everything like that, I feel like our relationship still 18 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:04,880 degraded because there was a lot of hurt between the two of us, which changed the way we were 19 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:10,800 interacting and everything like that. And just those experiences that we had now shared, everything 20 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:20,080 completely changed the relationship between us. Coming further, like closer to now, our relationship 21 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:25,040 is definitely healing a lot more. We are becoming friends once again, something like that. But it's 22 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:32,160 still not that original shape that it once was. Yeah. And I think I did a lot of the damage there 23 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:42,800 because I was angry, I was sad. And I would take a lot of it out on Bodhi. And we won fisticuffs 24 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:51,680 very often. But I would always, because Bodhi's immediate response back then was physical violence. 25 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:57,840 Yeah. And my immediate response was needling. Yeah. So yeah, I think I was the needler. 26 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:05,920 I would intentionally go to Bodhi into grabbing a weapon. And then I'd call the parents and then 27 00:03:05,920 --> 00:03:11,440 Bodhi's about to attempt to assail me with a weapon. Right. And I'm just sitting, look at me. 28 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:17,920 Oh, I can relate Soren. I'm so innocent. I'm just sitting here. Bodhi's trying to hurt me. 29 00:03:17,920 --> 00:03:27,920 Yeah. But it was mostly my fault. And like, I think the recovery of our relationship was 30 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:35,600 hurt to some extent by the amount of scar tissue built up. Yeah. And just like, I felt like I 31 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:41,040 couldn't talk to Bodhi anymore because I had done so many bad things to him. Right. Well, like you 32 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:48,480 said, you had that guilt. Yeah. I still do. I just feel really guilty. And then whenever me and Bodhi 33 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:56,240 get into a tough, I'll end up sitting there sad because like, I'm doing the exact thing that I 34 00:03:56,240 --> 00:04:08,080 did when I was an asshole. Yeah. What I think I know about your relationship and your lives now is 35 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:16,080 you have your unique group of friends. Bodhi has your unique group of friends. And there's still a 36 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:24,400 lot of crossover. Like you all might hike together or walk the tracks together or do it overnight 37 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:33,600 together. Go ahead. Yeah. I think now during the summers and stuff, there is more crossover because 38 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:38,400 obviously a lot of Bodhi's friends are hanging out by the lake. And I'm also there and I'll bring my 39 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:45,840 friends out to the lake a lot. And I think it's definitely like, it's fun. The more bodies are at 40 00:04:45,840 --> 00:04:56,080 a party, the littier it is. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that has also been a step in healing our 41 00:04:56,080 --> 00:05:01,920 relationship. Yeah. That's where I was going to that is that as you are able to have your own 42 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:07,920 lives, but also feel very comfortable crossing over those lives, that relationship starts to 43 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:15,280 form in a different way. Does it feel that way for you? I mean, yeah, like it's definitely a 44 00:05:15,280 --> 00:05:23,200 different thing, but I don't know how much of that is because of the experience behind it. But as 45 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:29,440 much as we've just grown and changed where we're different people than we were, that's right. Five, 46 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:38,400 six, seven, eight years ago. Yeah. Where like, it's hard to compare your young childhood to your 47 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:46,560 adolescence to your like everything like that. Where I don't know how you're supposed to compare 48 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:54,960 your five-year-old thoughts to your now maturing, turning into adult thoughts, where I don't know, 49 00:05:54,960 --> 00:06:01,840 that's hard to figure out where the difference is and where the similarity is. Right. Right. So. 50 00:06:01,840 --> 00:06:08,080 Well, I think the opportunity that you have when you're in a family is that you can have struggle 51 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:15,600 that moves you apart, but unlike maybe a friend that may come and go when you're in a family, 52 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:19,440 and then maybe not all families are like this, but it sounds like in our collective families, 53 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:31,840 you maintain together. And so the relationship can evolve and grow despite any time period that 54 00:06:31,840 --> 00:06:36,080 would have driven two people who aren't in a family apart. And so I mean, I look at you now 55 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:46,320 and then like, you help me out immensely with everything from protector to counselor, 56 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:53,440 to very specific, tangible thing that I need favors that I might need or whatever. So, 57 00:06:54,640 --> 00:07:01,520 our relationship looks now very recognizable to a very traditional older brother, younger brother. 58 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:08,560 Yeah. Yeah. I completely agree. I think, again, if you had told me in fourth grade, 59 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:13,520 as I've got these bloody scars down the side of my bruises on my back, I would have been like, 60 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:19,920 you're not the total victim. True. True. But again, if you had told us then, I would never 61 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:29,120 have bought it. And I think kind of, Paulus Bodhi, what you were saying is that who we were then, 62 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:35,280 who we were in college, going to college around the same time and who we are as adults are 63 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:43,040 completely different yet that sibling bond thread still kind of pulls through all of them. 64 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:49,360 For sure. And if we had time, I'd like to get into what the experience was for Bodhi, 65 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:57,680 maybe share my experience during the coming out. Yeah. And sort of how that felt for you. 66 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:06,080 Hmm. Well, Soren was always very obviously queer, right? So, 67 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:14,400 even when Soren said the words like, I'm gay and came out, it was no surprise to anyone in our 68 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:20,000 family. Do you actually remember a conversation? Is there a conversation that you remember Soren 69 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:28,000 having with you? Was there a moment of actual coming out? I don't remember one. No. Yeah. It 70 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:34,400 was just kind of always obviously on the table that that was that. So it wasn't really an 71 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:39,520 experience for me. It was like, this has always been my brother. It's in the reality. Yeah. Do 72 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:44,480 you remember Soren at a time where you, you might not have said those words, but maybe you referenced 73 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:54,720 an attraction to a boy or a character on TV or a figure? Yeah. I think like, the first conversation 74 00:08:54,720 --> 00:09:01,520 that I remember having with Mama about it was like, I say is like my coming out. Yeah, I love this 75 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:09,360 story. Was she was sitting in her room watching TV. And I came in. And I think that there was 76 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:15,520 something going on at the TV that I was like, wow, I like that. Yeah. And then I had a brief 77 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:21,280 conversation with my mom and she primarily reacted with concern. Right. She was like, this could 78 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:32,480 prove an issue. Yeah. But that really is like the only proper example of coming out that I like, 79 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:39,840 obviously I've told other people that I'm gay through innuendos, but I think it's fairly apparent. 80 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:48,960 Yeah. Nor in your story, it's just, I think, been the reality you've always known. Yeah. And to some 81 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:56,320 level, I would suggest to you, your parents have probably probably knew that as well. And for 82 00:09:56,320 --> 00:10:04,240 whatever reason you see, you leaned into it and it just became a known reality of your household. 83 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:10,240 But it's all you kind of remember. Yeah. Especially because both of us were so young, too. Right. 84 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:16,000 Good point. Like, I have to be honest, I don't remember a lot of my childhood. And I think 85 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:21,200 a lot of that comes as a result of when I was unwell intentionally scrubbing it. Right. 86 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:29,360 But I just, I don't remember a ton of what was happening. Yeah. I obviously, I remember how 87 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:34,560 close our relationship was, hanging out with our cousins every single day of the entire summer, 88 00:10:34,560 --> 00:10:41,200 every summer. Yeah. But as Bodhi was saying, it's very difficult to compare and contrast. Yeah. 89 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:47,600 Because of how distorted my memories are of that time and how I was able to get along with my 90 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:53,520 distorted, my memories are of that time and how different my perspective was. Sure. When you think 91 00:10:53,520 --> 00:11:00,720 about, when you think about Soren, this Bodhi's point about it's just kind of always been there, 92 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:06,720 it's kind of always been assumed. Do you think at some level, it was easier that way? It was easier 93 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:11,520 not having to say the words out loud to all these different individuals in your life? 94 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:17,920 Yeah. Yeah. Totally. But also it brings up difficulty because when people can look at you 95 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:22,560 and listen to you and be like, oh, that's a gay person. That's right. Like you're wearing a sign 96 00:11:22,560 --> 00:11:32,800 or strobe light over your head. It also creates a lot of friction sometimes, right? So I would say, 97 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:40,000 yes, it's easier because like that's an awkward conversation to have. And obviously, 98 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:46,240 like, I don't know, I don't go shouting to the rooftops that I'm gay. I go shouting and people 99 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:56,320 are like, oh, you're gay. Yeah. I think it certainly made it more organic, natural, a little 100 00:11:56,320 --> 00:12:02,560 easier with people that I trust and are totally chill, but also a little harder with those 101 00:12:02,560 --> 00:12:06,560 individuals that maybe I wouldn't want my sexuality that they're close to. That's right. From a safety 102 00:12:06,560 --> 00:12:12,160 perspective. Yeah. But it is disclosed to them purely as a result of who I am, right? Sure. 103 00:12:14,560 --> 00:12:21,280 And I, so I'll be curious to hear your thoughts because in my mind, when I think, when I kind of 104 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:30,400 watched the movie playback of who I was as a kid, like there was no doubt in anybody's mind. Like I 105 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:36,240 think some of my, our family members would say when those words were said out loud, it was like, 106 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:47,440 where you been for the last 18, 20, 30 years, right? Like it was very, very apparent, but my 107 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:52,560 story I think is a little different given the age that I was when I formally did that. But I'll be 108 00:12:52,560 --> 00:12:59,920 curious to hear your thoughts on it. I think from my perspective, right before you came out, 109 00:12:59,920 --> 00:13:06,320 there was a feeling like of, will you just get on with it? Right. You know, there was a, right, 110 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:11,440 there was a particular girlfriend you had at the time. Oh, right. That was like, it was just 111 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:20,480 clearly a mismatch. Right. And, and so, so it was, it was kind of almost not comical. I don't want 112 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:24,720 to say that being dismissive, but when I look back on it, it almost kind of was comical. Right. It 113 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:31,760 was like, it was the end of the fumbling. Right. Right. Right. Right. And, and so when you came out 114 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:37,360 and I don't, I want to, I'm trying to convince myself that I remember the phone call, but I don't 115 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:44,240 know that I do. Yeah. And, and, but when you came out, I just remember feeling like so much happiness 116 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:49,280 for you. Yeah. And maybe it was because we were feeling like, just get on with it, but it was like, 117 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:56,720 oh, Chris is now going to be able to bring his genuine self, right, to everything he does. There's 118 00:13:56,720 --> 00:14:02,960 no more of this secret or no more of this pretending. Right. And, and, and a sort of a, 119 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:09,120 a feeling like there was an understanding, but not one. It wasn't my experience of like how hard that 120 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:16,000 must have been. Right. And so just, you know, we, I know I was very relieved for you and happy for 121 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:22,480 you. I know your mother was very concerned about you. Your mom had some, some stereotypes about 122 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:27,760 what gay men your age did at night and those dangerous situations they put themselves in. 123 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:31,680 And the absence of grandchildren. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. And so I remember 124 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:36,400 having the same conversations for their back then that I had the other night. Yeah. Come on, you 125 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:43,600 just, you got to get over this. Right. That's right. So, so I think my experience for you are 126 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:48,960 coming out was an incredibly positive, happy one. Yeah. And that's how I remember it too. I also 127 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:58,160 don't necessarily remember. I, I did a very long staged approach of this group of friends knew, 128 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:06,480 then this group of friends, why then a couple siblings, you know, well, Soren and I talk about 129 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:12,640 the word shame often in some of our conversations and how that kind of always is in the background 130 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:17,840 to different levels. And as a therapist and a clinical social worker, I also know it's always 131 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:23,680 there in the background when I'm working with other people. And so the same is true for me. It 132 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:31,040 was, it was shame. It was wanting things to be different and that the girlfriend, which you 133 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:36,720 reference, who I have an amazing relationship with today. And we've actually recently just talked 134 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:42,240 about this through some of the conversations in our first season of the podcast, that she's 135 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:46,800 listened to and been able to really open up some really important conversations with she and I, 136 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:51,920 but anyway, and I meant no slight towards her. No, not at all. Not at all. But she is, 137 00:15:53,520 --> 00:16:00,000 yeah, she's good with it. And so, but I think it was, what's the, what's the metaphor I'm thinking, 138 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:07,360 you know, like you bait a hook and maybe cast it out, see how that works. If it's successful, 139 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:11,120 then you might bait a couple more hooks. And if it's not successful, then you put the fishing 140 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:17,440 box away and carry on. So it was, it was, it was trial and error. So you were hoping to get back 141 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:24,640 allies. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. If, if the people I told also felt like I was okay, 142 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:32,240 that I was going to be okay. I think that was the perspective. Yeah. To pivot the conversation 143 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:41,040 slightly, me and you, Chris, obviously have quite boisterous out there personalities. And we 144 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:49,840 are both the older sibling. Right. I know that me overshadowing, overshadowing Bodhi has been 145 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:56,960 an issue or at least something that's very prevalent because I did, and to some extent still do 146 00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:04,400 require more maintenance from my parents. And I also take up more space in a room. And I'm also 147 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:13,520 competitive with Bodhi. So I was wondering, I know obviously Bodhi talked about how my taking up 148 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:19,840 resources helped him create his strong sense of individualism, but what was it like for you to, 149 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:27,680 to develop your own identities in the shadow of a louder, older sibling? That's a great question. 150 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:33,360 Hmm. It's definitely a hard question to answer. There's a lot to process behind that. Um, 151 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:38,160 I mean, when you're struggling, you were definitely trying to change yourself, right? 152 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:45,840 You were, you disliked who you were as an individual. Um, and I think that kind of 153 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:49,840 carried throughout the family at the same time though, at that time you saw, I lost a bunch of 154 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:56,000 weight, started at like, started to work out, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then you started to 155 00:17:56,000 --> 00:18:02,720 work out, blah, blah, blah. And I think a lot of that was your self doubt and everything carried on 156 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:14,880 into me. Um, where, yeah, I was, I was obviously a very privileged, straight white man and I was 157 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:22,560 like clear, it was clear to myself that I was obviously more normal, but there was still 158 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:30,480 still a difference. And with the confusion of you, it brought confusion to me. So I 159 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:37,440 obviously was trying to figure out myself as an individual too. And I ended up leading towards the 160 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:45,760 more jock like, as you would say, stereotypical jock, um, of an individual. And at that time, 161 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:53,520 I kinda was messing around with who I was to now figure out, like I would say that I'm pretty 162 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:58,400 confident in who I am as an individual now. And I understand who I am and I understand my own 163 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:06,720 thought process, everything like that. But at the time I didn't. Um, and with you being such a bold 164 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:12,880 character and pulling so much attention from the family, it allowed me to do so much more 165 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:17,840 and figure myself out at a much younger age than a lot of other people because I was able to 166 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:24,400 experiment and everything like that and not have to worry about the viewpoints of you or 167 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:28,960 our parents and everything like that. So do you feel like you're flying under the radar? 168 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:34,160 Yeah. And still today you're able to fly under that radar. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I would still say 169 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:42,400 that I can do as, do as I please and, uh, not see that parenting that I want at times when I don't 170 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:49,600 want that parent. Right. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. How about you, Nate? Do you, I'll be curious your 171 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:58,320 thoughts about space in the room and being able to find yourself in the, maybe a shadow. See, 172 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:03,200 I think I had the opposite. Yeah. That's what I was thinking too. I think I, I attempted to take 173 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:11,360 up space. Yep. To, to, to be stereotypically heterosexual, to be stereotypically popular, 174 00:20:11,360 --> 00:20:17,920 to be, to balance. You were the yin to the yang I was thrown out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and 175 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:22,160 maybe it was, I don't, I don't know that there was a lot of intention behind it at the time. I think 176 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:28,880 I just saw the, the struggle that, that you were going through the, maybe the struggle that you 177 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:36,800 just had with other people. Yeah. And sought to, to avoid that. Yeah. You know, for myself, I would 178 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:44,400 say that, that wasn't healthy. As I, as I look back on it, I think those are the, the masks you 179 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:51,840 learned to wear. Yeah. That aren't your genuine self. Hanging out with the in crowd got me drinking 180 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:58,160 at a much too early age. Right. That I've had to deal with. Right. You know, later in life. So, 181 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:05,600 you know, those not bringing your authentic self to all your situations. Yeah. Generally leads to 182 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:13,200 no good. Regardless of sexuality or gender. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, that you, that's about how I thought 183 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:21,360 you were going to respond to that. That I, that's what I, that's jiving with my memories as well. 184 00:21:21,360 --> 00:21:28,640 And again, back then it looked like it was coming so easy for you. But I think, you know, 185 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:34,880 the time period that we're talking about, like this is the hallmark of puberty and adolescence. 186 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:42,480 Is awkwardness, insecurity, inner conflict, trying to figure out who you are and how you fit into the 187 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:49,840 world. Um, wanting to be cared for. And at the same time, wanting to be independent and not get 188 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:56,880 attention from the parental units, a little bit of both. And so I think when you, in the best of 189 00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:06,240 times, adolescent sucks. And then you throw, whether it's us trying to figure out who we are 190 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:14,400 and some of the crap that came with that, or living in a household, watching people struggle 191 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:22,080 in their own ways and trying to deal with that on top of your own stuff. Yeah. It's, it's a awful, 192 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:29,040 awful, awful part of our lives. But, you know, but the encouragement you'd get, I'd give to anybody 193 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:33,680 who's maybe listening to this, it's at that place. Yeah. Currently it's going through it. It's like, 194 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:42,320 it's, if you stick with it, you get to a good place. And, and then when you're at a good place, 195 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:48,000 you look back on the path that got you there and you're great. And you can be grateful for it. Yeah. 196 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:54,000 Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's sort of what your insight was that kicked off our episode today was that 197 00:22:54,000 --> 00:23:02,000 those mistakes and yeah, the mistakes and wrong doings are looked at in the present as like a 198 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:09,120 negative. Right. But when, once you move forward and you look back, you're like, oh, well, that was 199 00:23:09,120 --> 00:23:14,720 definitely a negative, but there's a lot more positive that came from it. 100%. And I would say 200 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:27,120 that Nate and I's relationship today was forged. We are, we have the relationship today because of 201 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:33,920 some of the not so great stuff of the past that are, you know, in the moment, it was, it was awful 202 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:39,200 for different perspectives on that. But we have shared traumas to get that, that, you know, that 203 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:45,200 are very unique to you and I. That's right. That's right. So, you know, I think that's one of the 204 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:53,680 things I'm taking from this conversation as well is it does get better. We're works in progress. 205 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:59,840 The better days are still ahead. And I'm just hopeful that through the start of this conversation, 206 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:07,920 as I look at you and your brother, Sorin, that you can continue these conversations maybe, and 207 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:14,080 maybe this has kind of opened the door to keep those conversations going off camera, when you can 208 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:21,120 maybe lean into the conversation a little bit more personally. Yeah. I think that like people 209 00:24:21,120 --> 00:24:27,280 tend to interpret change as negative. Yeah. And the times that we often view as typically negative 210 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:33,920 are just times of great change. Yeah. Like middle school or like freshman year of college. Right. 211 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:41,920 And beyond. And beyond. And some, I think the greatest opportunity that Being Siblings presents 212 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:49,920 is that you're roughly of the equivalent age and you have super similar life experiences. Yeah. 213 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:55,120 Because you come from the same family. Right. But you get to view those life experiences through 214 00:24:55,120 --> 00:25:00,800 totally different lenses. Yeah. So it gives you the opportunity to see what you're experiencing 215 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:06,960 from a different angle. And I think that's to a large extent the utility of these conversations. 216 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:12,400 Yeah. I hope so too. I hope so too. So I think with that, we'll give people an opportunity for 217 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:18,400 some last thoughts. And then we'll wrap for the day. Nate, last thoughts. Just thank you for this 218 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:26,560 opportunity. I've never done a podcast. I'm very much more about experiences these days. And so I've 219 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:32,800 very much enjoyed this experience. There's some topics that came up today that I want to follow 220 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:38,800 up with you on. Yeah. There's places in our relationship that I think can still improve. 221 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:44,880 Yeah. You know, we're works in progress. So my final thought is not very insightful. It's really 222 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:49,280 just to thank you for this opportunity. And I've really enjoyed myself. Yeah. Thanks. Bode, 223 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:55,200 final thought. I guess my final thought would just be like, look at your siblings as allies. 224 00:25:55,200 --> 00:26:00,720 Not enemies. Yeah. Because there's only ones that actually have that similar upbringing and 225 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:07,600 experiences and actually understand them the same way that not understand them the same way, but 226 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:13,200 differently, but still there's that similarity where no one else is going to understand where 227 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:18,960 your parents try to understand, but they don't. Yeah. It's really only you and your siblings that 228 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:26,240 have that same upbringing that you can relate. So use your siblings as an ally and not an enemy and 229 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:31,440 allow yourself to grow with them and not apart. That's a great, well said. Yeah. All right. A 230 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:38,480 few years ago, I don't think that I didn't think that I would ever be in, well, I didn't think 231 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:43,920 that I'd be alive, first of all. But second of all, if I continued to live, I didn't think that I 232 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:50,160 would ever be in a place where I could look at Bode in the eye without being grief-stricken 233 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:58,320 because of all the damage that I had done to him. And I'm just super grateful that I've, 234 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:05,840 and Bode's given me the opportunity to heal and attempt to rekindle the flame of our relationship. 235 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:12,240 And this is a super cool opportunity that we get to have both of you on. 236 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:17,760 So thank you two fellows. Yeah. And that's my, I'm also in a place of gratitude to just thank you 237 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:24,480 both for your willingness to come and have these conversations and share your thoughts with us and 238 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:29,760 lean into some memories, some good, and some not so great. So thank you so much. This has been 239 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:34,160 another episode of the Inspired Insights podcast. I'm Chris McGowan. I'm Sorin Peterson. And thank 240 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:38,480 you so much for listening. Have a lovely day. Thanks you too. Thank you. Thank you. The Inspired 241 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:43,600 Insights podcast has been brought to you by Inspired Consulting Group LLC. Edited and produced 242 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:48,560 by Amanda Seidel and Derek Herter. Marketing support for the Inspired Insights podcast by 243 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:56,400 Elizabeth Keenan. Music by Derek Herter. Please visit www.inspiredcg.com to learn more. Copyright 244 00:27:56,400 --> 00:28:09,680 2024. All rights reserved.