1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,840 Hi friends, welcome to this week's episode of the Inspired Insights Podcast. 2 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:09,720 Today we're kicking off something really special, our first two-part episode. 3 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:14,040 Sword and I invited our younger brothers to join us and there was just so much good stuff 4 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:16,500 to fit into one episode. 5 00:00:16,500 --> 00:00:20,200 So for part one, we're going to dive into the conversation. 6 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:23,440 Next week, we'll bring you part two of these episodes. 7 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:25,480 So let's get started. 8 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:30,040 The Inspired Insights Podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only and should 9 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:31,980 not be considered health advice. 10 00:00:31,980 --> 00:00:35,920 This podcast is not intended to replace professional medical advice. 11 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:40,160 Please note that this podcast may contain discussions on sensitive topics such as mental 12 00:00:40,160 --> 00:00:42,400 illness, suicide, and substance use. 13 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:46,520 If you are experiencing a behavioral health crisis or need support, please contact the 14 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:55,720 9-8-8 suicide and crisis lifeline by calling 9-8-8 or visiting www.988lifeline.org. 15 00:00:55,720 --> 00:01:19,160 Hello and welcome to the Inspired Insights Podcast, Brother edition. 16 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:25,600 I'm Sorin Peterson, a high school student and I'm Chris McLaughlin, Sorin's cohost 17 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:27,080 on the Inspired Insights Podcast. 18 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:31,840 We are out in nature again for another guest-filled episode. 19 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:37,920 I'm going to introduce the good-looking gentleman to my right and my left. 20 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:44,400 To my right, Nate McLaughlin, Chris's younger brother, younger, barely younger brother. 21 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:49,240 And to my left, I am Bodie Peterson, Sorin's younger brother. 22 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:55,320 And I actually think, fun fact, the age difference between you two is almost the same age difference 23 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:56,720 between the two of us. 24 00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:58,760 We are 14 months. 25 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:02,080 No, you're the engineer, do the math. 26 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:05,480 If it's 14 months, it's like the exact same as me and Bodie. 27 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:08,920 June, we are July, August, September, October. 28 00:02:08,920 --> 00:02:10,960 We are 16 months. 29 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:15,040 No, we're like 22 months. 30 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:17,040 Do you have, you have two grade levels? 31 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:18,520 My two years? 32 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:19,520 Not even two months. 33 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:22,480 Oh, I thought it was 23, 23 months. 34 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:23,480 Perhaps I'm foolish. 35 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:24,480 Never mind. 36 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:30,680 So we are, we just figured out we're 16, but two grade levels different in school. 37 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:32,880 Yeah, two grade levels different in school. 38 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:38,440 So maybe not chronologically the same age, but school age-wise the same. 39 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:39,440 Yeah, roughly the same. 40 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:40,600 The same equivalent experientially. 41 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:41,600 That's right. 42 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:42,600 That's right. 43 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:48,200 So we, Sorin and I, in planning some episodes for the second season of the podcast, thought 44 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:54,760 it'd be really neat to start bringing in more voices to our conversations. 45 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:59,440 And we thought, you know, let's go talk to our brothers. 46 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:06,880 Let's get a sense of how our brothers maybe experienced life with the personalities and 47 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:12,780 dynamics of having two interesting older brothers might be like. 48 00:03:12,780 --> 00:03:14,240 So we want to talk about that. 49 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:20,520 We want to talk about current experience, past experience, and then anything else you 50 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:21,720 all want to talk about today. 51 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:22,720 So welcome. 52 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:23,720 Thanks for being here. 53 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:24,720 Good to see you both. 54 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:26,760 Sorin, how you been? 55 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:28,040 Me? 56 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:31,080 I've been lovely, as always. 57 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:36,760 And I guess I've been prompted to start it off with our first insight of the day. 58 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:43,600 And something that is rather themed, I'd say, and has come up in me and Bodhi's relationship 59 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:51,640 many a time, is that those that are closest to you can often ignite within you the deepest 60 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:56,120 rage and just deepest emotions, period. 61 00:03:56,120 --> 00:04:02,240 And I think that is something that often comes up in me and Bodhi's relationship. 62 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:05,840 But I wouldn't say that it dampens our passion for each other. 63 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:07,960 Yeah, for sure. 64 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:12,760 And I have an, my inspired insight of the week plays off of that a little bit. 65 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:17,720 As I was hearing you share yours, something that I have thought about is, and maybe we'll 66 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:25,220 talk more about this during the course of our conversation, but thinking about how relationships 67 00:04:25,220 --> 00:04:27,960 can change over time. 68 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:36,460 And someone that you may have had that bitter enemy perspective with as kids can grow up 69 00:04:36,460 --> 00:04:41,200 to be one of your best friends and biggest allies and supporters. 70 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:44,720 So that's going to be my insight for this conversation. 71 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:45,840 Bodhi. 72 00:04:45,840 --> 00:04:51,720 I guess I'm going to break off of the brotherly vibe, but still a topic where like looking 73 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:58,680 at our past, I think oftentimes we look at our wrongdoings and mistakes as negatives, 74 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:01,360 when a lot of the times they're not negatives. 75 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:03,640 If you look at them, they're actually positives. 76 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:07,960 And there's a lot of experience behind that that helps you grow. 77 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:11,880 And that was kind of inspired by a random YouTube short I was watching this morning. 78 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:19,160 How the, they're like yogurt was discovered by a mistake of milk sitting to lamb. 79 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:21,440 And then that sat too long and became cheese. 80 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:28,680 And every time that mistake was made and broken down, it became more valuable because yogurt's 81 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:33,360 worth more than milk and cheese is worth more than yogurt and milk combined. 82 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:34,360 I love that. 83 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:36,720 So I guess that would be my inspired insight. 84 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:45,280 I love that, that the biggest mistakes can turn out to be the most productive discovery. 85 00:05:45,280 --> 00:05:48,600 Nate, I saw the same thing you saw. 86 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:49,600 That's interesting. 87 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:52,200 This morning. 88 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:57,160 My insight would be it's never too late to become the person you want to be. 89 00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:58,240 I love that too. 90 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:04,760 And so, you know, I think as we navigate change and as a parent, as you help your children 91 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:12,680 navigate change, I think it's important to remember we're not static, that we're dynamic 92 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:17,800 and whoever or whatever you want to become is possible. 93 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:18,800 Work towards it. 94 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:19,800 Yeah. 95 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:24,440 Which is a huge theme for Soren and I in this podcast is our better days are still ahead 96 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:27,040 of us and that we're all works in progress. 97 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:28,040 For sure. 98 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:29,040 Yeah. 99 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:37,080 And we've actually made points that we've talked about a lot and how we can leverage 100 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:42,440 mistakes in order to create positive change in our own lives. 101 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:43,440 Yeah. 102 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:44,440 Yeah. 103 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:45,440 So. 104 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:46,440 Cool. 105 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:47,440 Cool. 106 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:48,440 Thanks for those insights. 107 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:54,360 So to kick the conversation off, I want to kind of get into the sibling, the brother 108 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:55,880 stuff. 109 00:06:55,880 --> 00:07:01,220 And something that Soren and I have talked about in preparation for this conversation 110 00:07:01,220 --> 00:07:09,000 and at least in my relationship with my brother, I don't think we've ever talked about this. 111 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:16,640 But what was life like going back a couple decades for us, maybe a couple years for you 112 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:17,640 both? 113 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:18,640 Couple decades this kind. 114 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:19,640 Couple decades. 115 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:20,640 Maybe three. 116 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:21,960 Well, ish. 117 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:32,240 What was life like for you in a family where the older sibling was kind of different, not 118 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:38,840 necessarily fitting in with what the rest of the kids on the street were doing? 119 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:42,040 Well, I'll take a stab at it. 120 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:46,960 So I think as I've heard you talk about in the podcast before, you know, Chris, you came 121 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:53,360 out much later in your life than you, Soren, and so I think our experience together was 122 00:07:53,360 --> 00:08:01,320 one of you being closeted and you being not only closeted, but it was never talked about, 123 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:02,640 which I guess is closeted. 124 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:05,900 But it wasn't even like we were having a conversation in private. 125 00:08:05,900 --> 00:08:14,080 And so I think, you know, for me, as I would say, I was a fairly insecure adolescent and 126 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:19,640 preteen as well, I think there was, it was confusion as I look back on it. 127 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:25,800 I think it was confusion about, you know, why you were different, as you say. 128 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:31,400 And it was sort of like, I know my, the driving emotion I would have in the experiences where 129 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:41,080 your difference would come out would often be one of anger towards, not you, anger towards 130 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:47,320 whoever might've been bullying you or anger towards whoever was treating you different. 131 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:51,440 I always wished as I look back on it, that I could have acted on that differently. 132 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:57,040 I wish I was a more confident individual where I would have spoke up or talked to you about 133 00:08:57,040 --> 00:08:58,040 it. 134 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:01,240 But I think for me at that time in my life, it was confusing. 135 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:06,800 I didn't really know what to do with that feeling of anger. 136 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:11,000 So I think as we, you know, we can get into kind of how our relationship has changed since 137 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:14,760 you've came out, but I think as a, when we were living together in the same house on 138 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:19,680 Poplar Street, that was an often emotion I felt. 139 00:09:19,680 --> 00:09:20,680 Yeah. 140 00:09:20,680 --> 00:09:21,680 That's interesting. 141 00:09:21,680 --> 00:09:22,680 We'll definitely come back to that. 142 00:09:22,680 --> 00:09:23,680 Yeah. 143 00:09:23,680 --> 00:09:27,320 You kind of touched on how like, Soren was out at a very young age. 144 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:33,760 Soren's always drawn a lot of attention, which has definitely pulled some attention for me, 145 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:37,840 which I'm not looking at that as a negative because that shaped me to who I am. 146 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:42,800 And that's created my strong individualism and everything like that. 147 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:49,720 As I've been me and I've allowed myself to grow as an individual and not allowed my family 148 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:55,920 to hold me back or to try to baby me or anything like that. 149 00:09:55,920 --> 00:10:01,280 And I feel like it's also a big difference is just the time that we're growing up in. 150 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:04,440 You guys were in the eighties, the nineties, everything like that. 151 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:07,440 Whereas me and Soren grew up in a very different time. 152 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:12,160 I always accepted Soren as Soren. 153 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:16,000 And from a young age, I just, even though I was the younger brother, I still wanted 154 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:20,920 to help Soren and motivate Soren and allow Soren to be who Soren was. 155 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:24,440 It was probably 11 or 12 when... 156 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:29,960 Yeah, I was 11 when COVID hit and all the pride festivals and everything were shut down. 157 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:36,360 And I actually organized a private pride festival for Soren. 158 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:43,200 So I feel like it was a different relationship than every other kid, but that was our brotherly 159 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:48,360 relationship and that's who we are and what we grew up as. 160 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:55,320 Yeah, Derek and I participated in that drive through COVID Pride Parade for Soren. 161 00:10:55,320 --> 00:11:03,680 And I remember as Derek and I were leaving saying, that was really, really frigging cool. 162 00:11:03,680 --> 00:11:05,120 That was really, really cool. 163 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:08,680 And you were beaming that entire afternoon. 164 00:11:08,680 --> 00:11:10,640 I mean, there was what? 165 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:15,800 20, 30 cars of people kind of driving the loop where you all used to live. 166 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:17,240 Yeah, that was really cool. 167 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:23,800 Bodhi, you bring up an interesting point about the time that we were coming to age and as 168 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:33,160 being different and for Nate and I being two grades apart, so kind of being in high school 169 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:43,680 in the late 80s, early 90s, mid 90s almost, but yeah, where this was absolutely not talked 170 00:11:43,680 --> 00:11:44,680 about. 171 00:11:44,680 --> 00:11:48,480 I mean, I have shared with Soren, I can't think of, and maybe you can Nate, I can't 172 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:57,320 think of one kid at our school who was out, who was like publicly out as anything, LGB 173 00:11:57,320 --> 00:11:58,320 or T. 174 00:11:58,320 --> 00:11:59,320 I can think of a couple. 175 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:00,880 I mean, I certainly wouldn't name them. 176 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:01,880 Yeah, right. 177 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:05,520 You know, I can think of a couple, but a couple is not a huge number. 178 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:06,520 Right, right. 179 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:08,520 So I think it's the same point. 180 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:13,280 Yeah, and it was just, it wasn't talked about. 181 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:18,800 I mean, for you all, and Soren has talked about this at length, language is different, 182 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:23,080 the culture is different, what's accepted or not accepted, bullying absolutely still 183 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:24,080 exists. 184 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:30,800 We know that's sort of a universal, but now it almost feels like the kids doing the bullying 185 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:32,440 are being looked down on as well. 186 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:37,200 Like that's not cool to be an asshole to other people. 187 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:44,920 Yeah, he brought up confusion at like how you were confused on what was happening and 188 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:45,920 whatnot. 189 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:49,280 But we had, me and Soren at least had the internet. 190 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:50,280 We've always had that. 191 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:52,080 It's always been very clear. 192 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:56,720 And even before Soren was out from that, like I was three or four, but I still understood 193 00:12:56,720 --> 00:12:58,960 that there is a difference between Soren. 194 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:02,240 And as soon as I had access to the internet, it was very clear. 195 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:08,880 Like my parents were, it was very obvious that Soren was always queer and different. 196 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:16,940 And Soren was like always just this bold, bubbly character. 197 00:13:16,940 --> 00:13:23,280 So the confusion was not an element for me where it was kind of obvious, maybe less obvious 198 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:26,920 for Soren as a confused individual growing up. 199 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:30,320 But from the outside, it was very clear who Soren was. 200 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:34,960 And I feel like that confusion was less of an element for me. 201 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:40,720 A lot of that was due to the open discussion about it and the internet and everything like 202 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:47,480 that where it was very clear, very accepted or more accepted at least than when you guys 203 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:48,480 were growing up. 204 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:49,480 Yeah. 205 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:55,520 Well, I would also say, you know, the confusion is maybe equal parts about not understanding 206 00:13:55,520 --> 00:14:00,440 what the person is going through, but also that the messaging you're getting from the 207 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:04,120 world is not aligning with your experience with that person. 208 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:12,960 So like the world, whatever that is, is telling you that this behavior is wrong or deviant 209 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:19,400 or demonizing these groups of people, but your experience with them is nothing at all 210 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:21,520 like that. 211 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:30,000 And so I think to youth, youth, to you, it's just like how in any situation, how when your 212 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:33,400 experience doesn't align with the messaging you're being. 213 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:34,400 Right. 214 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:35,400 Right. 215 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:36,400 Yeah. 216 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:47,080 So bringing it back to confusion and perhaps away from queer issues, what was your outlook 217 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:49,440 when I was like quite mentally ill? 218 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:53,840 And obviously I think our parents kept you in the dark for a lot of stuff just to shield 219 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:55,160 you from it. 220 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:59,040 But like, how were you processing that? 221 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:02,720 What did you think at the time? 222 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:04,440 What was your perspective on what was happening? 223 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:07,560 I mean, it's definitely a scary time. 224 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:13,360 You seem like from the outside, you were losing you, right? 225 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:14,360 Yeah. 226 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:16,560 And I was treating you very poorly at the time as well. 227 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:20,280 And well, especially because growing up with you, you had that bright bubbly personality, 228 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:21,720 everything like that. 229 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:27,040 And that was fading through time and everything like that. 230 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:30,920 So that definitely brought confusion for me. 231 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:34,520 Obviously I couldn't understand what you were going through. 232 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:39,400 And both our parents were obviously trying to shield me, which for me, I almost feel 233 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:41,320 like made the situation worse. 234 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:42,320 Yeah. 235 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:45,640 Because I will say I'm a bit of a control freak and I like to understand what's going 236 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:47,520 on and whatnot. 237 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:50,520 Where do you get that? 238 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:54,000 Yeah. 239 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:57,400 And not understanding what was going on and being sheltered and everything like that, 240 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:02,920 I feel like brought up more confusion and almost scared me more because I liked being 241 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:06,080 able to see the full picture. 242 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:09,720 Knowing that I couldn't help but still being able to understand what was going on. 243 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:13,840 But at the time I couldn't see what was going on and I was being sheltered, which has kind 244 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:15,720 of made it worse for me in the time. 245 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:25,600 And I imagine Sorin, you grew up and are growing up in a family that is incredibly open. 246 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:29,800 Like in your household, typically speaking, there's no conversation off limits. 247 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:31,760 You all talk about it all. 248 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:33,440 It's wide open. 249 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:38,360 And to have this experience be so different, like all of a sudden what's happening is very 250 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:40,880 closed off and quiet. 251 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:45,520 And you've kind of felt in the dark, I'm sure that increased the anxiety of the situation. 252 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:46,520 Yeah, for sure. 253 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:48,880 I have a kind of a question. 254 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:49,880 Sure. 255 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:59,560 So like, as we're focusing on what our experience was at that time period, I'm curious like 256 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:09,400 what each of yours experience was towards us as siblings who weren't living that lifestyle 257 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:12,160 or weren't having... 258 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:15,160 I'll stop there as opposed to leading. 259 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:18,520 Do you want to start with that, Sorin? 260 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:22,840 Yeah, I remember I was really mean to Bodhi. 261 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:27,840 I was not kind and I was angry. 262 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:33,960 I remember thinking a lot, especially when I was quite suicidal. 263 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:35,560 Bodhi was like the golden boy. 264 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:38,480 He was my replacement, right? 265 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:42,400 Because the investment had been lost on me, basically. 266 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:47,320 So I was like, oh, good, I have a replacement, right? 267 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:48,480 You guys have one healthy child. 268 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:51,280 Why do you need two? 269 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:57,760 And I resented Bodhi for being normal. 270 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:05,880 And I think I had placed a lot of anger and resentment towards like jocular people and 271 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:11,080 like masculine men because obviously I had some very negative experiences with that in 272 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:12,840 middle school. 273 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:19,200 And Bodhi to me, especially playing football and all that, was the image of that. 274 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:26,200 So then I think I took a lot of my rage at the people that I saw as my persecutors, whatever, 275 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:28,320 out on Bodhi and that really wasn't fair to him. 276 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:32,520 All while he was in the dark and I was actively engaging and really bad. 277 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:35,040 Yeah, under hey, disgusted. 278 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:38,680 Yeah, unsafe behaviors and the like. 279 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:41,360 And receiving treatment and all that. 280 00:18:41,360 --> 00:18:43,400 So I just feel guilty. 281 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:46,480 Yeah, that's interesting. 282 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:47,480 And I totally understand. 283 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:50,120 I totally get that. 284 00:18:50,120 --> 00:18:56,320 I think my experience, there's some similarities there. 285 00:18:56,320 --> 00:19:06,080 I also have very vivid memories of how things seemed to come very easy for my brother. 286 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:13,020 And so resentment, but for me it was almost jealousy. 287 00:19:13,020 --> 00:19:20,340 And so hearing you say that you weren't a very confident teenager, that wasn't what 288 00:19:20,340 --> 00:19:22,840 was projected into the world, of course. 289 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:33,640 And so whether it was friends, sports, dating, just existing, just seeming so comfortable 290 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:35,600 in your skin. 291 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:38,680 And popularity is an interesting thing. 292 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:44,280 We've talked about how it's kind of shifted and now there is one group that's by default 293 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:47,220 more popular than every other group. 294 00:19:47,220 --> 00:19:54,200 You have a lot of academic and theater friends and those friends are super cool and super 295 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:56,760 popular in those rooms too. 296 00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:59,780 Back when we were in school, that was absolutely not the case. 297 00:19:59,780 --> 00:20:05,280 And so I saw Nate running with the cool kids. 298 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:13,300 And as we grew up, where we grew up was kind of isolated, kind of in the woods, 20 or so 299 00:20:13,300 --> 00:20:15,200 minutes to get in town. 300 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:18,680 And so the kids on the street were your first playmates. 301 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:23,480 And then people start getting licenses and driving and the ability to leave. 302 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:31,860 And I remember watching Nate leave and I wasn't necessarily going anywhere. 303 00:20:31,860 --> 00:20:37,880 And so I kind of remember like feeling a little left behind, even though we had very different 304 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:38,880 interests. 305 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:44,840 But you might remember my junior year in high school, your freshman year, you were running, 306 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:50,940 you were big track, you know, jumping and running and all of that stuff. 307 00:20:50,940 --> 00:20:56,360 And I took on the role of videotaping your track meets. 308 00:20:56,360 --> 00:21:02,560 And that was a way for me to be involved and fit in knowing that I wasn't going to do any 309 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:07,440 running or jumping or any athletic anything to try to fit in. 310 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:13,200 You also might remember my senior year in high school, I tried out for the tennis team 311 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:20,160 and it was my first time ever trying out for a sports team. 312 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:25,560 And I tried out because you had played tennis the year before and I didn't make the team. 313 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:36,860 And I probably covered it okay, but I was furious that here was my, finally I got the 314 00:21:36,860 --> 00:21:46,800 courage to try something and it wasn't successful and it was another way for you to go do straight 315 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:49,640 boy things and need to not do those things. 316 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:54,560 So it was tennis being the most, the parallel straight boy. 317 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:55,560 Good point, good point. 318 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:57,240 Racquet sports, a different breed. 319 00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:00,160 But yeah, so it wasn't resentment. 320 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:01,920 Like I was an angry symbol of what you said. 321 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,000 I wasn't angry at you. 322 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:05,200 I was jealous. 323 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:09,640 I was similar to what you said, maybe Sorin, about Bodhi. 324 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:19,080 Like watching the younger sibling embody everything that at that point in my life, I wish I had 325 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:20,320 too. 326 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:22,400 Can I share two observations of what Trudis said? 327 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:26,920 So it's so interesting because it's that, it's what you described, what you started 328 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:33,800 describing is that trap we all fall into of comparing our insides to somebody else's outside. 329 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:40,640 And so you were totally describing me or your perception of me as totally different than 330 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:43,800 how I felt about myself. 331 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:47,440 And so there's a lesson learned in that, right? 332 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:51,640 You've got to compare your insides to other people's insides and that takes time to know 333 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:52,920 what somebody's insides are. 334 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:58,360 The other thing is just that experience with the tennis team is like something that stands 335 00:22:58,360 --> 00:23:04,200 out really prominently for me as well and just when I was speaking before to the anger 336 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:07,520 that I felt, I mean, I guess context matters. 337 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:09,840 I mean, you beat me all the time at tennis. 338 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:10,840 You were better than I was. 339 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:11,840 That's the thing. 340 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:13,520 I was better than you, better than me. 341 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:17,080 And I knew it. 342 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:23,000 So I went to the coach and sort of pleaded that that wasn't fair. 343 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:24,000 Yeah. 344 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:28,440 And it was whatever, I won't get into the response, but it was just sort of like that 345 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:34,160 was that probably at that point in my life when I was a sophomore in high school, that's 346 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:39,440 probably when I was more comfortable stick amp for you. 347 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:42,600 And so that's just interesting that you bring that up because that's one of the things that 348 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:43,600 really stands out for me. 349 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:45,920 Yeah, those core memories of school. 350 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:50,720 And I think it's important to note as I think about the two of you and I don't, I'd have 351 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:51,720 to think about it. 352 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:55,400 I don't know exactly when that when this flip switched. 353 00:23:55,400 --> 00:24:00,520 Nate and I were mortal enemies. 354 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:08,800 Like my fourth grade school picture has three or four claw marks down the side of my face 355 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:09,960 from fights. 356 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:14,200 We got into knock down drag out. 357 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:21,600 It was almost a daily occurrence and we still kind of talked to our mom about it. 358 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:22,600 She will bring it up. 359 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:30,080 Like she thought arm one of our mom's many greatest fears was that that was who we were 360 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:35,760 going to stay into adulthood that we were going to grow up and keep that. 361 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:37,120 And I don't even know. 362 00:24:37,120 --> 00:24:39,960 I think it was our closeness to age. 363 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:45,580 I think it was growing up kind of an isolated street in the middle of the woods. 364 00:24:45,580 --> 00:24:47,560 My friends were your friends, your friends were my friends. 365 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,480 We weren't we spent we were each other's playmates. 366 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:52,200 We had to keep it like all of it. 367 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:55,920 We were just together all the time. 368 00:24:55,920 --> 00:25:00,360 And my anger came from somewhere totally different than your sexuality. 369 00:25:00,360 --> 00:25:02,360 We can get into that. 370 00:25:02,360 --> 00:25:03,360 That's another whole. 371 00:25:03,360 --> 00:25:04,800 We can have a parents episode. 372 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:12,280 Yeah but I you know we daily multiple times a day is and it's so cliche and you know you're 373 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:16,660 sitting on the couch and there's the couch cushion and that little finger starts creeping 374 00:25:16,660 --> 00:25:24,760 over the line in the cushion and it was immediately mom Nate's on my side of the couch like constant 375 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:26,720 at each other. 376 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:32,040 And that's sort of where my insight came from as we were prepping for this conversation 377 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:38,760 is if I knew I wouldn't have believed you if somebody had told me or given me a crystal 378 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:42,960 ball and said here's the relationship you and your brother are going to have in just 379 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:50,400 15 years I would have been like hell no no way we were at each other's throats quite 380 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:59,200 literally and I'm kind of like I feel bad for our parents a little bit that we were 381 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:02,880 that Tasmanian double towards each other. 382 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:07,240 Well I feel bad for our younger selves. 383 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:12,380 Thanks for joining us for part one of this two part episode featuring Sorna and I's brothers. 384 00:26:12,380 --> 00:26:17,040 Be sure to come back next week and catch the rest of this conversation until then take 385 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:39,840 care of.