1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,900 The Inspired Insights podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only and should 2 00:00:04,900 --> 00:00:06,900 not be considered health advice. 3 00:00:06,900 --> 00:00:10,820 This podcast is not intended to replace professional medical advice. 4 00:00:10,820 --> 00:00:15,060 Please note that this podcast may contain discussions on sensitive topics such as mental 5 00:00:15,060 --> 00:00:17,320 illness, suicide, and substance use. 6 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:21,540 If you are experiencing a behavioral health crisis or need support, please contact the 7 00:00:21,540 --> 00:00:30,540 9-8-8 suicide and crisis lifeline by calling 9-8-8 or visiting www.988lifeline.org. 8 00:00:30,540 --> 00:00:50,720 My friends, welcome back to another episode of the Inspired Insights podcast. 9 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:53,820 Here we are around the fire pit for another fire pitch side chat. 10 00:00:53,820 --> 00:00:54,820 How are you, Soren? 11 00:00:54,820 --> 00:00:55,820 I'm swell. 12 00:00:55,820 --> 00:00:57,380 Very excited to be here. 13 00:00:57,380 --> 00:00:58,380 Yeah. 14 00:00:58,380 --> 00:01:03,680 We are so excited to welcome a good friend and mentor and colleague of mine, Greg Bridges 15 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:04,680 Music. 16 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:05,680 Welcome, Greg. 17 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:06,680 Thank you very much, Chris. 18 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:07,680 Hello. 19 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:08,680 Yeah, Greg Bridges Music. 20 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:14,740 I have been an ordained clergyman since, oh golly, since 1986. 21 00:01:14,740 --> 00:01:18,260 Oh, that's even longer than I thought. 22 00:01:18,260 --> 00:01:20,140 Yeah, 1986. 23 00:01:20,140 --> 00:01:25,060 I'm a mental worker, therapist, currently a chaplain. 24 00:01:25,060 --> 00:01:30,860 And you know, we were saying leading up to this that I find those fields so interesting 25 00:01:30,860 --> 00:01:38,460 because as a chaplain and I work in mental health work, currently, and I'm doing a doctoral 26 00:01:38,460 --> 00:01:44,680 ministry and the doctoral ministry that I'm doing is on how queer men got to a healthy 27 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:50,580 space in their life when there have been so many hurdles for us to jump, right, and what 28 00:01:50,580 --> 00:01:51,580 that is. 29 00:01:51,580 --> 00:01:59,540 And so spirituality and good therapy work or science and faith are not at odds for me. 30 00:01:59,540 --> 00:02:04,420 They both strengthen and help one another when used properly. 31 00:02:04,420 --> 00:02:09,680 We're talking a lot about mindfulness and utilization of spirituality. 32 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:16,220 And in the religious world and queer spirituality, they're talking a whole lot about trauma work 33 00:02:16,220 --> 00:02:18,180 and how that's helpful. 34 00:02:18,180 --> 00:02:27,300 I love your point around where spirituality and theology crosses with your clinical background, 35 00:02:27,300 --> 00:02:28,300 your clinical training. 36 00:02:28,300 --> 00:02:34,760 I'm wondering if you can say a little bit more around how you apply elements of both, 37 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:40,220 those pieces that are so important to who you are and your identity, your spirituality 38 00:02:40,220 --> 00:02:41,820 and your clinical training. 39 00:02:41,820 --> 00:02:42,820 Okay. 40 00:02:42,820 --> 00:02:50,260 So the regular spiel that I do with patients in high crisis in a hospital week after week, 41 00:02:50,260 --> 00:02:53,660 let's say if it's some crisis, right? 42 00:02:53,660 --> 00:02:59,500 And whenever we hit crisis, trauma, huge changes in our life, COVID is example, divorce, death 43 00:02:59,500 --> 00:03:05,300 is another one, any illness, whether that's mental health, emotional or physical, because 44 00:03:05,300 --> 00:03:10,780 I used to be chaplain for the emergency department, intensive care and the cardiac unit. 45 00:03:10,780 --> 00:03:14,940 So somebody wakes up having their chest ripped open, they're not worried about getting to 46 00:03:14,940 --> 00:03:16,540 work the next day, right? 47 00:03:16,540 --> 00:03:17,540 Right. 48 00:03:17,540 --> 00:03:18,540 They're thinking about, I almost died. 49 00:03:18,540 --> 00:03:20,580 They're thinking about their relationships. 50 00:03:20,580 --> 00:03:23,060 They're thinking about what's important to life, right? 51 00:03:23,060 --> 00:03:26,100 Huge, huge existential crisis. 52 00:03:26,100 --> 00:03:29,260 So that causes a disconnect. 53 00:03:29,260 --> 00:03:35,380 So research and mental health, which just relates so much, whether you want to call 54 00:03:35,380 --> 00:03:41,860 it spirituality in a large sense, not necessarily religion, but some religions as well, okay, 55 00:03:41,860 --> 00:03:45,540 would be reconnection with yourself, sense of self, sense of values, sense of internal 56 00:03:45,540 --> 00:03:49,460 strength, finding that, because your head is all over here, your heart is up, but your 57 00:03:49,460 --> 00:03:53,820 values, your gut, that's still there and helping people ground themselves, which we like to 58 00:03:53,820 --> 00:03:55,580 call mindfulness, right? 59 00:03:55,580 --> 00:03:58,500 But that's who you are and what your values are. 60 00:03:58,500 --> 00:04:03,900 And when these crises come, the time you most need, the significant relationships in your 61 00:04:03,900 --> 00:04:07,700 life, like I'm really tired today. 62 00:04:07,700 --> 00:04:08,700 I'm going to go home after work. 63 00:04:08,700 --> 00:04:13,340 I'm going to find my husband, get a cup of tea, grab our furry love, go down to the fire 64 00:04:13,340 --> 00:04:16,340 pit and just watch the sunset, right? 65 00:04:16,340 --> 00:04:20,580 So I know how to recharge my batteries, but when people have these huge crises in their 66 00:04:20,580 --> 00:04:25,420 life, they withdraw, they isolate and they stop doing the things that feed their joy, 67 00:04:25,420 --> 00:04:26,980 which is so counterintuitive. 68 00:04:26,980 --> 00:04:33,780 So I try to call people back to what relationships are significant in your life and that's hard 69 00:04:33,780 --> 00:04:37,220 work and you don't feel like doing it and it feels the opposite about what you want 70 00:04:37,220 --> 00:04:38,220 to do. 71 00:04:38,220 --> 00:04:39,740 Loneliness is a national epidemic. 72 00:04:39,740 --> 00:04:47,420 It causes heart attacks, stroke, same impact as smoking 18 cigarettes a day, right? 73 00:04:47,420 --> 00:04:51,900 And if you look at all world faiths, and I'm not pushing religion, but just looking at 74 00:04:51,900 --> 00:04:57,260 wisdom literature over thousands of years, again and again, they talk about the importance 75 00:04:57,260 --> 00:05:01,820 of community, loving, supportive community and how to treat one another and how to look 76 00:05:01,820 --> 00:05:03,620 at ourselves, right? 77 00:05:03,620 --> 00:05:05,640 And then connection with the nature. 78 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:11,180 So great three monotheistic faiths of Islam, Judaism and Christianity all begin in the 79 00:05:11,180 --> 00:05:12,180 garden. 80 00:05:12,180 --> 00:05:17,740 Science tells us that if we walk underneath the trees, that trees put out phytochemicals, 81 00:05:17,740 --> 00:05:20,860 which raise the serotonin levels in our body. 82 00:05:20,860 --> 00:05:26,540 So this connection to the world around us, to the greater something, whatever it is that 83 00:05:26,540 --> 00:05:31,220 you believe in, maybe you just look at the night sky and see the stars and know that 84 00:05:31,220 --> 00:05:32,820 you're made up of the same seven elements. 85 00:05:32,820 --> 00:05:38,060 Those are your cousins up there and that should give you the sense of awe and wonder and joy. 86 00:05:38,060 --> 00:05:44,060 So spirituality is looking inside, but if we only stay inside, we become sick. 87 00:05:44,060 --> 00:05:48,660 Some people would just say the universe and determinism and you know, what's there. 88 00:05:48,660 --> 00:05:52,540 Some people believe in absolute free will, we have all different variants, what we think 89 00:05:52,540 --> 00:05:55,540 about it, but it's thinking about it. 90 00:05:55,540 --> 00:05:56,540 Yeah. 91 00:05:56,540 --> 00:05:57,540 And it's connecting. 92 00:05:57,540 --> 00:05:58,540 Getting in touch with it. 93 00:05:58,540 --> 00:06:04,460 And be in touch with yourself and being inside of yourself rather than life just happening 94 00:06:04,460 --> 00:06:05,460 to you. 95 00:06:05,460 --> 00:06:08,720 And a lot of people are just chasing their tail all the time and feeling like life is 96 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:11,620 just happening to them rather than living in their life. 97 00:06:11,620 --> 00:06:15,780 And that's how I, and so that is, you know, that's good clinical work, right? 98 00:06:15,780 --> 00:06:20,540 You've done that, that's Maslow, that's self-actualization right there, right? 99 00:06:20,540 --> 00:06:21,540 Right. 100 00:06:21,540 --> 00:06:29,220 Something that Sorin and I often reference in our podcast discussions here is about themes 101 00:06:29,220 --> 00:06:33,740 of belonging and being a part of something, whether that's our friends, our family, whether 102 00:06:33,740 --> 00:06:36,900 families of origin are chosen, whether it's a... 103 00:06:36,900 --> 00:06:37,900 Biological or logical family. 104 00:06:37,900 --> 00:06:38,900 Biological or logical. 105 00:06:38,900 --> 00:06:39,900 Yeah. 106 00:06:39,900 --> 00:06:44,980 Whether it's a connection to a pop artist, a certain maybe particular pop artist, that's 107 00:06:44,980 --> 00:06:47,300 like all of us like more than others. 108 00:06:47,300 --> 00:06:51,540 But it's really a part of something, it's community and belonging. 109 00:06:51,540 --> 00:06:52,540 Yes, absolutely. 110 00:06:52,540 --> 00:06:54,700 And what's the antidote to loneliness? 111 00:06:54,700 --> 00:06:55,700 Yeah. 112 00:06:55,700 --> 00:06:56,700 But belonging. 113 00:06:56,700 --> 00:06:58,340 Yes, absolutely. 114 00:06:58,340 --> 00:07:04,500 You mentioned something about spirituality that reminded me of a spiritual idea that 115 00:07:04,500 --> 00:07:06,300 I really like. 116 00:07:06,300 --> 00:07:11,060 It's that spirituality is looking inside and looking outside. 117 00:07:11,060 --> 00:07:12,060 Yes. 118 00:07:12,060 --> 00:07:13,060 Looking across. 119 00:07:13,060 --> 00:07:14,060 Yeah. 120 00:07:14,060 --> 00:07:21,340 I really like the idea that looking inside is also looking outside because we are an 121 00:07:21,340 --> 00:07:23,020 aspect of this greater whole. 122 00:07:23,020 --> 00:07:24,020 Yes, yes. 123 00:07:24,020 --> 00:07:25,020 Right. 124 00:07:25,020 --> 00:07:26,020 Yeah, absolutely. 125 00:07:26,020 --> 00:07:27,020 Absolutely. 126 00:07:27,020 --> 00:07:31,620 And as much as to some extent I empirically disagree with that, that idea is a really 127 00:07:31,620 --> 00:07:34,420 comforting idea for me. 128 00:07:34,420 --> 00:07:41,660 And I do think that we can find greater Schutzes than ourselves that are very representative 129 00:07:41,660 --> 00:07:48,340 of the world around us and we are a dynamic moving part of the world around us. 130 00:07:48,340 --> 00:07:49,340 Absolutely. 131 00:07:49,340 --> 00:07:50,340 Absolutely. 132 00:07:50,340 --> 00:07:51,340 Right. 133 00:07:51,340 --> 00:08:00,260 Actually, the other day I was on a walk and this is my like inspired insight for the podcast. 134 00:08:00,260 --> 00:08:01,260 Oh, yeah. 135 00:08:01,260 --> 00:08:03,580 Oh, I totally forgot to start with the inspired insight. 136 00:08:03,580 --> 00:08:06,540 Okay, bring us back to your inspired insight for the week. 137 00:08:06,540 --> 00:08:13,420 Echoing that idea by looking inside, we can notice something about the world around us. 138 00:08:13,420 --> 00:08:21,220 I was on a walk, I decided to turn off my music and I was just walking in the forest 139 00:08:21,220 --> 00:08:23,380 on the side of the railroad tracks. 140 00:08:23,380 --> 00:08:30,260 And I was thinking and I came across what I thought was an epiphany at the time. 141 00:08:30,260 --> 00:08:39,460 It's that empathy is the emotional opposite of avarice. 142 00:08:39,460 --> 00:08:47,220 Avarice being our desires, greed, things of that nature. 143 00:08:47,220 --> 00:08:58,300 Empathy is the wall that prevents our greed from encapsulating others, right, in my eyes. 144 00:08:58,300 --> 00:09:08,420 Through greed, we often have a desire to take advantage of others in order to get X. Whereas 145 00:09:08,420 --> 00:09:18,740 empathy for me is putting others above X and greed is putting X above others, right? 146 00:09:18,740 --> 00:09:26,440 And I thought that to be a very interesting and powerful sentiment. 147 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:34,740 You are, through empathy, being motivated, incentivized to put the community and others 148 00:09:34,740 --> 00:09:46,300 on an equal plane with yourself and valuing them above what you want as an isolated individual, 149 00:09:46,300 --> 00:09:48,260 right? 150 00:09:48,260 --> 00:09:53,700 And maybe even elevating them above oneself from time to time as well. 151 00:09:53,700 --> 00:09:56,140 Totally, yeah. 152 00:09:56,140 --> 00:10:00,120 I think that's a very profound forest railroad track walk. 153 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:01,820 Thank you for redirecting, Soren. 154 00:10:01,820 --> 00:10:07,500 My inspired insight of the week is what I've been thinking a lot about is this idea of 155 00:10:07,500 --> 00:10:20,180 legacy and thinking about as I approach my 50th year, something I know from talking with 156 00:10:20,180 --> 00:10:27,740 other members of the LGBTQIA plus community who are also in that stage of life where I 157 00:10:27,740 --> 00:10:31,740 don't have children, therefore I don't have grandchildren. 158 00:10:31,740 --> 00:10:35,700 I am one of the best uncles I know. 159 00:10:35,700 --> 00:10:36,700 I bet. 160 00:10:36,700 --> 00:10:38,340 Some amazing nieces and nephews. 161 00:10:38,340 --> 00:10:39,340 I bet. 162 00:10:39,340 --> 00:10:45,460 But thinking about legacy beyond offspring has been an interesting thought process for 163 00:10:45,460 --> 00:10:48,500 me as I think ahead to my 50th birthday. 164 00:10:48,500 --> 00:10:55,020 And so my inspired insight is going to be loosely borrowed from a Taylor Swift quote, 165 00:10:55,020 --> 00:10:57,960 at no surprise to my co-host, Soren. 166 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:05,780 But this idea that kindness is perhaps our best legacy to leave behind. 167 00:11:05,780 --> 00:11:12,100 That in the absence of anything else, being kind is a wonderful legacy to leave. 168 00:11:12,100 --> 00:11:13,460 That was my inspired insight. 169 00:11:13,460 --> 00:11:15,700 And I know, Greg, you prepped an inspired insight. 170 00:11:15,700 --> 00:11:16,700 I did. 171 00:11:16,700 --> 00:11:17,700 I did. 172 00:11:17,700 --> 00:11:20,260 And you put out a spiritual newsletter every week because you get that sometimes. 173 00:11:20,260 --> 00:11:21,260 I get that from you. 174 00:11:21,260 --> 00:11:22,260 You did. 175 00:11:22,260 --> 00:11:25,260 And so we're taping in September. 176 00:11:25,260 --> 00:11:31,740 The last couple days of summer, please just, I do not want to let this go. 177 00:11:31,740 --> 00:11:35,420 So tomorrow is September 22nd. 178 00:11:35,420 --> 00:11:39,140 Tomorrow is Bill Bolton Frodo Baggins' birthday. 179 00:11:39,140 --> 00:11:41,260 Tomorrow is International Hobbit Day. 180 00:11:41,260 --> 00:11:42,260 I love it. 181 00:11:42,260 --> 00:11:49,580 A lot of my spiritual religious concepts come off of Tolkien and C.S. Lewis. 182 00:11:49,580 --> 00:11:55,380 C.S. Lewis really helped me as a young man struggling with a lot of thoughts on some 183 00:11:55,380 --> 00:11:56,380 of the things that he wrote. 184 00:11:56,380 --> 00:11:58,420 Of course, Tolkien was Roman Catholic. 185 00:11:58,420 --> 00:12:04,540 C.S. Lewis had been atheist and came to Christ, became Episcopal and is a great writer who's 186 00:12:04,540 --> 00:12:09,540 influenced just generations and lived at the Kilns in Oxford. 187 00:12:09,540 --> 00:12:11,380 Both of them immense brains. 188 00:12:11,380 --> 00:12:16,860 So I gathered all kinds of quotes from Lord of the Rings. 189 00:12:16,860 --> 00:12:23,500 And this is one that I really like because Frodo in the Lord of the Rings, knowing that 190 00:12:23,500 --> 00:12:30,060 imminent evil was coming and he needed to do something about it. 191 00:12:30,060 --> 00:12:36,260 And Frodo says to Gandalf, I wish it need not have happened in my time, said Frodo. 192 00:12:36,260 --> 00:12:38,140 So do I said Gandalf. 193 00:12:38,140 --> 00:12:41,680 And so do all who live to see such times. 194 00:12:41,680 --> 00:12:44,300 But that is not for them to decide. 195 00:12:44,300 --> 00:12:48,900 All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us. 196 00:12:48,900 --> 00:12:51,020 Right? 197 00:12:51,020 --> 00:12:56,020 And it is, it's what we do with what we have where we are. 198 00:12:56,020 --> 00:12:57,940 And it's why you do what you do. 199 00:12:57,940 --> 00:13:04,940 It's why I continue to do what I do to make a change and to be a change maker. 200 00:13:04,940 --> 00:13:06,540 And I absolutely believe that. 201 00:13:06,540 --> 00:13:11,220 I believe that we are those pebbles thrown into the pond and other people are throwing 202 00:13:11,220 --> 00:13:14,540 pebbles in the pond and it's intersecting more than we can see. 203 00:13:14,540 --> 00:13:19,220 I have seen a great deal of times when we thought we would never make it through. 204 00:13:19,220 --> 00:13:23,020 And I've seen brave people stand up against evil. 205 00:13:23,020 --> 00:13:28,020 And yet I still see evil things happening. 206 00:13:28,020 --> 00:13:32,080 And I wish it wasn't going on. 207 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:34,260 But we don't get to choose that, do we? 208 00:13:34,260 --> 00:13:39,020 We just have to be the change. 209 00:13:39,020 --> 00:13:44,940 I can say you definitely understood the assignment with the inspired insight of the week, Greg. 210 00:13:44,940 --> 00:13:45,940 That was awesome. 211 00:13:45,940 --> 00:13:49,180 It's a great one. 212 00:13:49,180 --> 00:13:55,020 I want to ask you also, and as we were thinking about you coming on for this episode, one 213 00:13:55,020 --> 00:14:03,740 of the things that I know you and I both speak a lot publicly and personally about is queer 214 00:14:03,740 --> 00:14:10,540 identities and the importance of queer joy. 215 00:14:10,540 --> 00:14:19,700 And recognizing that for many queer individuals, religion, spirituality has been a source of 216 00:14:19,700 --> 00:14:20,900 pain. 217 00:14:20,900 --> 00:14:28,100 And I'm wondering if you can share a little bit about how you respond to a member of the 218 00:14:28,100 --> 00:14:38,060 LGBTQIA plus community of any age who is having that crisis of faith where they are or have 219 00:14:38,060 --> 00:14:44,900 been told that they are less than, they are an identity of shame and how you work with 220 00:14:44,900 --> 00:14:55,780 those individuals with your teachings to help those folks experience spirituality in a different 221 00:14:55,780 --> 00:14:56,780 way. 222 00:14:56,780 --> 00:15:01,340 Well, my personal faith has saved my life, got me through some of the hell, some of the 223 00:15:01,340 --> 00:15:03,820 shit that I went through, right? 224 00:15:03,820 --> 00:15:09,220 And it's like seeing a beautiful surgeon's scalpel used to seriously wound somebody. 225 00:15:09,220 --> 00:15:14,060 So I never push on to somebody what they should believe. 226 00:15:14,060 --> 00:15:19,540 I try to help them reconnect with those values, those internal values and who they are. 227 00:15:19,540 --> 00:15:27,580 But for some people that's holding on to that faith, right, and letting go of some of the 228 00:15:27,580 --> 00:15:28,660 other garbage. 229 00:15:28,660 --> 00:15:35,540 For some people who have that religious experience, it is something that they know in their gut. 230 00:15:35,540 --> 00:15:41,420 But in the same way that when trauma hits, their brain's just going, how is this happening? 231 00:15:41,420 --> 00:15:42,760 Is God punishing me? 232 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:44,220 Why did you create me this way? 233 00:15:44,220 --> 00:15:49,980 If you're going to punish me for being this way, and their heart is just hurting, right? 234 00:15:49,980 --> 00:15:55,820 So trying to help reconnect with that if that's what they want, if that's what helps them. 235 00:15:55,820 --> 00:16:00,900 Because for some of the people that I work with, in clinical terms, we use that term 236 00:16:00,900 --> 00:16:02,220 coping skill all the time. 237 00:16:02,220 --> 00:16:05,540 It's that source of strength and help that gets them through deep things. 238 00:16:05,540 --> 00:16:08,880 Yeah, resiliency, that's a better word for it. 239 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:15,260 Other people just need to let go of all that crap, right, because it's not helpful for 240 00:16:15,260 --> 00:16:16,260 them. 241 00:16:16,260 --> 00:16:17,260 So who are they? 242 00:16:17,260 --> 00:16:18,700 What are their values outside of that? 243 00:16:18,700 --> 00:16:26,180 Religious affiliation has gone from mid-70s down to mid-60s in the U.S. with the largest 244 00:16:26,180 --> 00:16:32,060 group turning away from organized religion being in this age group, right? 245 00:16:32,060 --> 00:16:37,220 And they're called the nuns, not the little ladies in the black habits, but the N-O-N-E-S, 246 00:16:37,220 --> 00:16:42,900 nuns, right, non-affiliated, but still claiming to be spiritual. 247 00:16:42,900 --> 00:16:47,180 And I encounter that a lot all the time. 248 00:16:47,180 --> 00:16:49,780 Religious affiliation has gone down. 249 00:16:49,780 --> 00:16:56,260 LGBTQ adherence to faith still remains around 50%. 250 00:16:56,260 --> 00:16:57,260 You know why? 251 00:16:57,260 --> 00:17:01,860 Because we didn't go to church, and we don't believe in God for middle-class values. 252 00:17:01,860 --> 00:17:06,780 We're not seeking, we're not going there for the same reason, right, to be accepted. 253 00:17:06,780 --> 00:17:10,220 So people are pushing us out, kicking us out. 254 00:17:10,220 --> 00:17:16,500 We're there because in our need, our faith really means something. 255 00:17:16,500 --> 00:17:17,780 People told me I'm going to hell. 256 00:17:17,780 --> 00:17:19,840 People kicked me out of the church, right? 257 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:23,540 People have tried to defrock me and take away my ordination, right? 258 00:17:23,540 --> 00:17:25,500 People call me horrible names. 259 00:17:25,500 --> 00:17:29,700 And so many people that I love and work for have been called horrible names. 260 00:17:29,700 --> 00:17:35,260 Queer theology, queer spirituality, which is not always specifically Christian, it's very, 261 00:17:35,260 --> 00:17:39,740 very broad, is an activist. 262 00:17:39,740 --> 00:17:41,460 I mean, queer is a verb. 263 00:17:41,460 --> 00:17:46,700 Queer means to push back against any institution or anything that would hold us down and to 264 00:17:46,700 --> 00:17:47,800 challenge it. 265 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:48,900 So that's where it comes from. 266 00:17:48,900 --> 00:17:50,340 It's been refined in the fire. 267 00:17:50,340 --> 00:17:52,820 It's an act of resistance. 268 00:17:52,820 --> 00:17:54,820 It is, and liberation. 269 00:17:54,820 --> 00:17:55,820 Liberation. 270 00:17:55,820 --> 00:17:58,540 Liberation, because we're not trying to hurt anybody. 271 00:17:58,540 --> 00:17:59,540 Right. 272 00:17:59,540 --> 00:18:02,120 Dr. King would say we're all oppressed. 273 00:18:02,120 --> 00:18:05,220 The oppressors are oppressed, right? 274 00:18:05,220 --> 00:18:09,580 These changes of percentages and demographics. 275 00:18:09,580 --> 00:18:13,660 Do you see this as a reclaiming of that church space? 276 00:18:13,660 --> 00:18:14,660 Yeah. 277 00:18:14,660 --> 00:18:16,700 I was going to ask that question. 278 00:18:16,700 --> 00:18:17,700 Yeah. 279 00:18:17,700 --> 00:18:20,300 So best thing ever happened to marriage was what? 280 00:18:20,300 --> 00:18:22,100 You and I getting married. 281 00:18:22,100 --> 00:18:28,340 Best thing ever happened to what is it to be a human being and get aside all this bullshit 282 00:18:28,340 --> 00:18:34,500 about gender and boys live like this and girls live like this, the trans community, right? 283 00:18:34,500 --> 00:18:35,500 And interesting. 284 00:18:35,500 --> 00:18:39,660 So what is the best thing that has ever happened to religion is us. 285 00:18:39,660 --> 00:18:45,940 And trans folks are the folks that have, overwhelming in my experience, have this deep sense of 286 00:18:45,940 --> 00:18:49,540 spirituality and there's something that's curdling. 287 00:18:49,540 --> 00:18:51,580 There's something that's bubbling there. 288 00:18:51,580 --> 00:18:56,220 At its root, when you really look at Judaism, when you really look at Christianity, those 289 00:18:56,220 --> 00:18:59,700 are the ones I can speak more to. 290 00:18:59,700 --> 00:19:03,620 They are so gender fluid. 291 00:19:03,620 --> 00:19:11,060 So then Constantine became the Holy Roman Empire and put the whole system under the 292 00:19:11,060 --> 00:19:13,300 empire and made the church that way, right? 293 00:19:13,300 --> 00:19:15,640 In the mid fourth century, yes. 294 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:20,980 And then really strict gender roles and that was man on top and women didn't count. 295 00:19:20,980 --> 00:19:23,780 But that's not what the scripture teach, right? 296 00:19:23,780 --> 00:19:28,380 So I mean, Jesus talked about eunuchs. 297 00:19:28,380 --> 00:19:34,180 So they remained single to serve God and that God made some of them. 298 00:19:34,180 --> 00:19:41,540 Paul said there is neither Roman nor Greek, slave nor free man, male nor female in the 299 00:19:41,540 --> 00:19:43,220 kingdom of God. 300 00:19:43,220 --> 00:19:51,480 The first convert who was non-Jewish to Christianity was an Ethiopian eunuch who was not allowed 301 00:19:51,480 --> 00:20:00,140 into the temple because would not have qualified, right, was not correctly sexually appropriate, 302 00:20:00,140 --> 00:20:01,780 gender appropriate. 303 00:20:01,780 --> 00:20:08,420 And so Philip, who's an outsider because he is a Greek Jew and not a Palestinian Jew, 304 00:20:08,420 --> 00:20:10,940 leads this person to Christ. 305 00:20:10,940 --> 00:20:11,940 Yes. 306 00:20:11,940 --> 00:20:15,300 And that's how the Christian church starts for the non-Jews. 307 00:20:15,300 --> 00:20:19,500 So I guess it's clear it's right in your face, yes? 308 00:20:19,500 --> 00:20:23,980 And we have to change the Bible and cherry pick to turn it into something else. 309 00:20:23,980 --> 00:20:25,700 Which has absolutely been done. 310 00:20:25,700 --> 00:20:27,540 It's absolutely been done. 311 00:20:27,540 --> 00:20:31,980 And that God creates male and female out of God, out of them. 312 00:20:31,980 --> 00:20:34,780 And in Hebrew it says them, not he. 313 00:20:34,780 --> 00:20:40,860 Yes, all gender comes out of God and that there's variance there because God makes night 314 00:20:40,860 --> 00:20:41,860 and day. 315 00:20:41,860 --> 00:20:45,060 Have you ever observed that it's nighttime and somebody pulls a switch and suddenly it's 316 00:20:45,060 --> 00:20:46,060 day? 317 00:20:46,060 --> 00:20:47,060 No, we have what? 318 00:20:47,060 --> 00:20:48,060 Sunrise. 319 00:20:48,060 --> 00:20:49,060 Yes. 320 00:20:49,060 --> 00:20:50,700 And then after there is transition. 321 00:20:50,700 --> 00:20:57,180 So one of my friends who is transfeminine rabbi, right, just did a whole big dissertation 322 00:20:57,180 --> 00:20:59,420 on all of that and gender and that. 323 00:20:59,420 --> 00:21:01,020 So that, I mean, that just isn't exciting. 324 00:21:01,020 --> 00:21:03,020 That's just so cool, right? 325 00:21:03,020 --> 00:21:04,980 Yeah, it's fascinating to me. 326 00:21:04,980 --> 00:21:11,020 You mentioned that, like Martin Luther King said, that everybody is oppressed, even the 327 00:21:11,020 --> 00:21:12,020 oppressors. 328 00:21:12,020 --> 00:21:21,780 You talk about God as an indefinable entity and by using language we are inherently putting 329 00:21:21,780 --> 00:21:23,420 him in a box. 330 00:21:23,420 --> 00:21:25,580 And I wouldn't say him. 331 00:21:25,580 --> 00:21:33,040 Do you feel as though identity in and of itself is an oppressive construct? 332 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:37,300 By defining something we are limiting it. 333 00:21:37,300 --> 00:21:40,220 What an interesting question. 334 00:21:40,220 --> 00:21:42,940 So I think we need language. 335 00:21:42,940 --> 00:21:47,340 So just in my world of everyday clinical work with queer kids, right, who are trying to 336 00:21:47,340 --> 00:21:49,740 sort themselves out. 337 00:21:49,740 --> 00:21:54,580 And they're 13, 14, 15, 16 years of age. 338 00:21:54,580 --> 00:21:57,460 Identity is not going to be in there until they're 18-ish, yes? 339 00:21:57,460 --> 00:22:02,660 Frontal lobes, not until like 25, 26 for some of them, not until 30, right? 340 00:22:02,660 --> 00:22:04,540 And they're trying to figure themselves out. 341 00:22:04,540 --> 00:22:06,260 They should be, right? 342 00:22:06,260 --> 00:22:09,380 And so they're feeling fluid and feeling like they've got to define it. 343 00:22:09,380 --> 00:22:11,780 And I say, you know, you're not a soup can. 344 00:22:11,780 --> 00:22:13,620 You don't need to slap a label on that. 345 00:22:13,620 --> 00:22:15,700 Give yourself a little bit of time. 346 00:22:15,700 --> 00:22:24,540 But it's, and I get tired of going, I'm a white, cisgender, pansexual male, right? 347 00:22:24,540 --> 00:22:28,920 And of course the more labels we give ourselves, the less power we have, yes? 348 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:33,720 We have currently, and this may be showing after an election, but currently, nobody goes, 349 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:35,460 we have a male president, do they? 350 00:22:35,460 --> 00:22:36,820 A former president. 351 00:22:36,820 --> 00:22:40,020 They certainly go, we have a black female, right? 352 00:22:40,020 --> 00:22:43,880 Every time you add a label, you lose power. 353 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:47,860 But the labels sometimes are helpful and the labels sometimes get in the way. 354 00:22:47,860 --> 00:22:52,300 And it's just understanding those intricacies and complications of speech when it's helpful 355 00:22:52,300 --> 00:22:53,300 and unhelpful. 356 00:22:53,300 --> 00:23:00,860 I really liked your point about how we don't talk about, like we don't define the president, 357 00:23:00,860 --> 00:23:06,860 the former president is like male, but we talk about Kamala Harris who's running for president 358 00:23:06,860 --> 00:23:09,340 as a black female. 359 00:23:09,340 --> 00:23:13,740 And I don't really like modern liberal identity politics. 360 00:23:13,740 --> 00:23:21,340 I don't really like using identifying words even with myself because I feel like that 361 00:23:21,340 --> 00:23:26,540 is limiting my flexibility to an extreme degree. 362 00:23:26,540 --> 00:23:28,420 Right there with you. 363 00:23:28,420 --> 00:23:36,780 In Western culture, I was watching a video on this earlier today actually on my car ride 364 00:23:36,780 --> 00:23:38,700 over. 365 00:23:38,700 --> 00:23:42,340 Not watching, listening to a video on this. 366 00:23:42,340 --> 00:23:43,580 In Western culture- 367 00:23:43,580 --> 00:23:47,740 So the gunkle comes out yet? 368 00:23:47,740 --> 00:24:02,420 The null hypothesis is a white cis heterosexual male and what this means for people's perceptions. 369 00:24:02,420 --> 00:24:08,260 Women dressing in a masculine sense is not as jarring for us as Westernized individuals 370 00:24:08,260 --> 00:24:10,540 as a man dressing in a masculine sense. 371 00:24:10,540 --> 00:24:14,940 The power giving up power is no, right? 372 00:24:14,940 --> 00:24:20,340 Then women don't matter so who cares, right? 373 00:24:20,340 --> 00:24:29,140 And like using masculine terminology to address a group is commonly expected like saying gus 374 00:24:29,140 --> 00:24:31,220 to a group of people. 375 00:24:31,220 --> 00:24:37,660 Whereas saying hey gals is something that's quite abnormal unless you're addressing specifically 376 00:24:37,660 --> 00:24:38,660 females. 377 00:24:38,660 --> 00:24:41,980 And so that fourth century Constantine takes over the Christian church, puts the power 378 00:24:41,980 --> 00:24:47,140 structure and we're still living with it to this day. 379 00:24:47,140 --> 00:24:52,020 Actually I think that that really starts with Aurelian. 380 00:24:52,020 --> 00:24:54,180 Actually I'm reading a biography of Aurelian right now. 381 00:24:54,180 --> 00:24:56,700 Of course you are. 382 00:24:56,700 --> 00:24:59,220 Restitutor orvis. 383 00:24:59,220 --> 00:25:12,780 Aurelian started the governmental monotheism in Rome and with that he crushed Zenobia and 384 00:25:12,780 --> 00:25:19,940 the Gallic Empire and resettled the borders of the Roman Empire and he built a wall around 385 00:25:19,940 --> 00:25:20,940 Rome. 386 00:25:20,940 --> 00:25:31,460 And in that monotheistic power he was really re-empowering their own world and centralizing 387 00:25:31,460 --> 00:25:33,580 the government once more. 388 00:25:33,580 --> 00:25:36,660 Religious nationalism is not a new thing. 389 00:25:36,660 --> 00:25:43,220 It's been used again and again and again, whichever label we slap onto it, uniting everyone 390 00:25:43,220 --> 00:25:48,460 under a common belief, those in power being the head of that belief, anyone dissenting 391 00:25:48,460 --> 00:25:50,900 from that put outside or punished. 392 00:25:50,900 --> 00:25:54,620 Everybody wonders, does Constantine have a real religious experience or does he have 393 00:25:54,620 --> 00:26:02,340 an opportunity to seize one faith and put everybody under it and consolidate the empire? 394 00:26:02,340 --> 00:26:06,940 And that's when Christianity starts burning people at the stake and punishing them and 395 00:26:06,940 --> 00:26:07,940 the heretics. 396 00:26:07,940 --> 00:26:11,580 All the bad stuff that you asked me about. 397 00:26:11,580 --> 00:26:14,580 So where are we now? 398 00:26:14,580 --> 00:26:16,540 So I'm a Christian, right? 399 00:26:16,540 --> 00:26:18,820 I used to use the word evangelical. 400 00:26:18,820 --> 00:26:20,460 I know, not anymore. 401 00:26:20,460 --> 00:26:21,460 I'm an evangelical. 402 00:26:21,460 --> 00:26:22,460 Right, right. 403 00:26:22,460 --> 00:26:24,540 Yeah, the labels, right? 404 00:26:24,540 --> 00:26:28,820 That term used to, because early on evangelicals were social justice people. 405 00:26:28,820 --> 00:26:33,980 They are the people that brought it into slavery, to child labor laws, to women's rights. 406 00:26:33,980 --> 00:26:39,220 It used to be a good term and then it turned into something else, very legal. 407 00:26:39,220 --> 00:26:44,780 Then it became something about insiders and outsiders and good and bad and going to heaven 408 00:26:44,780 --> 00:26:46,620 and going to hell, right? 409 00:26:46,620 --> 00:26:51,820 And then it went from love to judging others and then it became control and that's what 410 00:26:51,820 --> 00:26:57,060 it is now with people that don't even step inside of a church who hold Bibles upside 411 00:26:57,060 --> 00:26:58,820 down, right? 412 00:26:58,820 --> 00:27:05,540 And use my faith and misquote to spread hatred. 413 00:27:05,540 --> 00:27:08,340 That is the same thing as Constantine. 414 00:27:08,340 --> 00:27:10,900 That is the same thing that Aurelian did. 415 00:27:10,900 --> 00:27:17,180 That's the same thing Taylor Swift sings against and says, I'm a Christian and this is not 416 00:27:17,180 --> 00:27:21,100 the kind of Christianity that I serve, Marsha Blackburn in Tennessee. 417 00:27:21,100 --> 00:27:22,100 Right? 418 00:27:22,100 --> 00:27:23,100 That's right. 419 00:27:23,100 --> 00:27:24,100 So if I can bring it out together for you. 420 00:27:24,100 --> 00:27:25,100 That's right. 421 00:27:25,100 --> 00:27:26,100 That helps. 422 00:27:26,100 --> 00:27:32,900 So my new inspired insight is I thought Constantine was a movie with Keanu Reeves. 423 00:27:32,900 --> 00:27:36,940 And now I'm realizing there's clearly more to this Constantine character. 424 00:27:36,940 --> 00:27:45,820 You know what, actually, I think sort of catalyze that division in Christianity and it's like 425 00:27:45,820 --> 00:27:51,300 the Catholic Church specifically is a tendency to persecute heretics. 426 00:27:51,300 --> 00:27:53,980 And what started that is Roman Catholic Church. 427 00:27:53,980 --> 00:27:57,380 It's Roman Catholic Church as opposed to the Byzantine Church, right? 428 00:27:57,380 --> 00:27:59,540 In what's now modern day Turkey. 429 00:27:59,540 --> 00:28:00,540 Yes? 430 00:28:00,540 --> 00:28:01,540 Orthodoxy. 431 00:28:01,540 --> 00:28:02,540 Yeah, Orthodoxy. 432 00:28:02,540 --> 00:28:06,700 Greg needs to come on every podcast and be my interpreter. 433 00:28:06,700 --> 00:28:13,820 You know what I actually think catalyzed that was the persecutions of Deccius in 251 AD. 434 00:28:13,820 --> 00:28:23,700 Essentially, Deccius was a Roman Emperor during the crisis of the third century that made 435 00:28:23,700 --> 00:28:32,220 every single person in the Roman Empire sacrifice to the imperial cult or you would be burned 436 00:28:32,220 --> 00:28:34,500 and or killed, whatever. 437 00:28:34,500 --> 00:28:35,500 Person Keta. 438 00:28:35,500 --> 00:28:36,500 Right. 439 00:28:36,500 --> 00:28:43,420 And this created a massive divide in Christian circles because if you're sacrificing to the 440 00:28:43,420 --> 00:28:45,940 emperor you're renouncing your faith. 441 00:28:45,940 --> 00:28:46,940 Exactly. 442 00:28:46,940 --> 00:28:49,100 So that's when the persecutions, yes. 443 00:28:49,100 --> 00:28:55,380 And again, the Christians were persecuted under Diocletian a lot. 444 00:28:55,380 --> 00:29:00,040 And those persecuted eventually become the persecutors under Constantine. 445 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,860 We often become what we hate if we don't practice forgiveness. 446 00:29:03,860 --> 00:29:11,940 What's the takeaway you want listeners to have in terms of where this might fit for 447 00:29:11,940 --> 00:29:17,500 them regardless of their gender identity or sexual orientation? 448 00:29:17,500 --> 00:29:22,700 What's the takeaway you want for listeners who might be just kind of thinking about a 449 00:29:22,700 --> 00:29:29,140 new relationship with spirituality? 450 00:29:29,140 --> 00:29:34,460 I have a bracelet on my hand that my husband gave. 451 00:29:34,460 --> 00:29:37,420 I wear it because it grounds me. 452 00:29:37,420 --> 00:29:40,320 And it says, Greg, love never fails. 453 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:43,020 And that's a direct quote from 1 Corinthians 13. 454 00:29:43,020 --> 00:29:44,820 It says you're going to have all kinds of wisdom. 455 00:29:44,820 --> 00:29:49,420 You can know everything, have all kinds of power, prophecy, but if you don't have love, 456 00:29:49,420 --> 00:29:52,820 it just like playing symbols. 457 00:29:52,820 --> 00:29:54,260 Yeah. 458 00:29:54,260 --> 00:29:57,620 Spirituality should be about fear. 459 00:29:57,620 --> 00:29:58,620 Yeah. 460 00:29:58,620 --> 00:30:03,700 And it really is a source of strength in times of fear. 461 00:30:03,700 --> 00:30:07,860 And in times of darkness, Tolkien, right? 462 00:30:07,860 --> 00:30:12,020 So easy to give in to that, but to ground yourself in values and not give into that 463 00:30:12,020 --> 00:30:19,420 fear and in somebody really young, smart, so that when you look inside here, there's 464 00:30:19,420 --> 00:30:22,180 a whole world of connection out there. 465 00:30:22,180 --> 00:30:23,180 Yeah. 466 00:30:23,180 --> 00:30:24,180 Yeah. 467 00:30:24,180 --> 00:30:26,780 So we get swirled around and we don't look inside. 468 00:30:26,780 --> 00:30:27,780 Yeah. 469 00:30:27,780 --> 00:30:32,140 And I found this great connection with something bigger. 470 00:30:32,140 --> 00:30:34,540 And I feel it when I'm in the woods. 471 00:30:34,540 --> 00:30:36,460 I feel it when I look at the stars. 472 00:30:36,460 --> 00:30:42,420 I feel it in the depths of me in the worst, shittiest times of my life. 473 00:30:42,420 --> 00:30:43,420 Yeah. 474 00:30:43,420 --> 00:30:44,420 And it's gotten me through. 475 00:30:44,420 --> 00:30:48,460 And maybe other people just feel the trees, but feel wonder and awe in there and feel 476 00:30:48,460 --> 00:30:50,500 that when they look up, right? 477 00:30:50,500 --> 00:30:51,500 Yeah. 478 00:30:51,500 --> 00:30:57,140 It comes in different forms, but not to be afraid of that, to seek it. 479 00:30:57,140 --> 00:31:02,940 Timewise Gamgee said, if we can deviate from Taylor Swift, please. 480 00:31:02,940 --> 00:31:03,940 Really? 481 00:31:03,940 --> 00:31:04,940 Please. 482 00:31:04,940 --> 00:31:05,940 Temporarily, please. 483 00:31:05,940 --> 00:31:13,180 There's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo, and it's worth fighting for. 484 00:31:13,180 --> 00:31:15,680 Love never fails, Greg. 485 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:19,620 On that note, I want to thank you so much for spending some time with us. 486 00:31:19,620 --> 00:31:26,500 Well, you are welcome back anytime on the, maybe the inspired insights after hours, deep 487 00:31:26,500 --> 00:31:27,500 dive. 488 00:31:27,500 --> 00:31:28,500 Yes. 489 00:31:28,500 --> 00:31:29,500 Deep dive podcast. 490 00:31:29,500 --> 00:31:30,500 Soren, as always, thank you. 491 00:31:30,500 --> 00:31:34,500 Thank you for putting up with my Taylor Swift quotes. 492 00:31:34,500 --> 00:31:42,780 I do apologize to the listeners who I dragged through a bunch of niche historical factoids. 493 00:31:42,780 --> 00:31:51,780 Listen, I am sure at this point, Soren has a following of fellow geeks, fellow nerds, 494 00:31:51,780 --> 00:31:52,780 fellow... 495 00:31:52,780 --> 00:31:53,780 Both? 496 00:31:53,780 --> 00:31:54,780 Really? 497 00:31:54,780 --> 00:31:56,100 You sound like someone trying to use the right pronouns. 498 00:31:56,100 --> 00:31:57,100 I am. 499 00:31:57,100 --> 00:31:58,100 For me. 500 00:31:58,100 --> 00:31:59,460 I'm trying to be a geek nerd. 501 00:31:59,460 --> 00:32:02,500 So yeah, I'm sure that there is a following there. 502 00:32:02,500 --> 00:32:06,780 I'm sure that you continue like you do with me every single time we talk, Soren. 503 00:32:06,780 --> 00:32:09,220 Inspire me, challenge me to learn new things. 504 00:32:09,220 --> 00:32:12,500 And I thank you and thank you and thank our listeners. 505 00:32:12,500 --> 00:32:16,580 And until next time, this has been the inspired insights podcast. 506 00:32:16,580 --> 00:32:19,100 I hope you enjoyed listening. 507 00:32:19,100 --> 00:32:23,500 Inspired insights podcast has been brought to you by inspired consulting group LLC. 508 00:32:23,500 --> 00:32:27,340 Created and produced by Amanda Seidel and Derek Herder. 509 00:32:27,340 --> 00:32:30,820 Marketing support for the inspired insights podcast by Elizabeth Keenan. 510 00:32:30,820 --> 00:32:32,220 Music by Derek Herder. 511 00:32:32,220 --> 00:32:37,300 Please visit www.inspiredcg.com to learn more. 512 00:32:37,300 --> 00:32:38,780 Copyright 2024. 513 00:32:38,780 --> 00:32:54,420 All rights reserved.