1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:07,000
Soren!

2
00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:10,520
Chris!

3
00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:24,240
This is our last episode of Season 1.

4
00:00:24,240 --> 00:00:25,960
Yes, it is.

5
00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:26,960
Episode 10.

6
00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:27,960
Ooh.

7
00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:29,800
It's been a journey.

8
00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:31,400
It's been a journey, my friend.

9
00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:38,200
So for this final episode, we really wanted to lean in, I think, more to the conversation

10
00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:46,400
of family, especially as it relates to families and queer youth.

11
00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:53,200
And we've received some feedback along the way that it might be helpful to give folks

12
00:00:53,200 --> 00:01:02,920
listening some tips, some tricks, some perspectives from the perspective of a queer youth and

13
00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:07,760
the perspective of a queer adult and social worker.

14
00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:08,760
Yeah.

15
00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:11,600
And so I'm going to put you on the spot first.

16
00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:17,440
And I'd love for you, and I think you've hinted at this over the last nine episodes, but I'd

17
00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:24,200
love for you to just share your experience of growing up queer in your home.

18
00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:28,400
Well, okay.

19
00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:33,800
So from my youth, I've actually, I did have several girlfriends.

20
00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:36,400
Third grade, I had a girlfriend.

21
00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:39,040
As we all did.

22
00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:44,480
When I was six, I had a girlfriend at my playground, not playground.

23
00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:45,480
What's it called?

24
00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:46,480
Daycare.

25
00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:47,480
Daycare.

26
00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:53,440
But I came out fairly unceremoniously in fifth grade.

27
00:01:53,440 --> 00:02:00,880
And I've been a loud and proud homosexual ever since.

28
00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:06,600
Can you share, when you say you came out in fifth grade, what did that look like for you?

29
00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:14,280
I, well, I had been like, I didn't really know what being gay was as like a societal

30
00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:18,600
thing until like fourth grade.

31
00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:23,480
But obviously my parents have always been like allies of the queer community.

32
00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:31,960
And they actually, they didn't have a real wedding because queer, gay marriage wasn't

33
00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:34,240
legalized in Maine yet.

34
00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:35,560
So they were very allied.

35
00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:36,560
Yeah.

36
00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:37,560
They had a protest.

37
00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:38,560
Yes, very much.

38
00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:42,580
Do you remember when, was it a sit down conversation?

39
00:02:42,580 --> 00:02:47,080
Like mom and dad, I got something to tell you, or was it just you being you and it just

40
00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:48,320
blurted out one day?

41
00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:55,120
My mom was watching TV in her bedroom and I walked in and I think that we were like

42
00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:57,520
having a conversation about something.

43
00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:01,360
And then I told her that I think I am into boys.

44
00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:03,960
I think I like him a lot.

45
00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:09,520
And like, obviously she's very supportive, but at first she was like, are you sure?

46
00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:14,840
Because fifth grade is like, I think people see that as a very early time for people to

47
00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:17,200
tell what their identity is, right?

48
00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:19,080
What they enjoy.

49
00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:23,480
And a lot of fifth graders are quite irrational little creatures.

50
00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:25,520
So she was like unsure.

51
00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:31,240
And she was concerned the adversity that I would face as like a queer individual operating

52
00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:32,240
in society.

53
00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:33,240
Yeah.

54
00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:34,240
She was scared.

55
00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:35,240
Yeah, obviously.

56
00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:36,240
And she wanted the best for her child.

57
00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:42,080
And I remember having a number of conversations with her after that, still in like fifth and

58
00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:44,920
sixth grade.

59
00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:53,960
Like in car rides, just sort of justifying my rationale to some extent.

60
00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:56,760
And obviously she was, she didn't react with hate.

61
00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:59,240
She was just like, are you sure?

62
00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:02,660
And then it just continued as that.

63
00:04:02,660 --> 00:04:05,880
And I was very quickly accepted into my family.

64
00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:10,800
I faced no backlash, which is a quite unique situation.

65
00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:13,520
And especially at like such a young age.

66
00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:21,400
And then from there, I've just always been embraced by my family.

67
00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:28,560
And a good portion of the people that I've chosen to surround myself with.

68
00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:31,280
Obviously in middle school, there were several exceptions.

69
00:04:31,280 --> 00:04:35,360
However, like the vast majority of people around me have been very supportive.

70
00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:38,680
And I've faced very little backlash for it.

71
00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:40,400
And I'm very grateful for that.

72
00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:45,800
And obviously having like my community at home was super important, especially when

73
00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:49,760
I was facing backlash in school.

74
00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:52,200
Because I had a safe place where I could be myself.

75
00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:53,200
Right?

76
00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:54,200
Yeah.

77
00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:55,920
And I know that your situation was different.

78
00:04:55,920 --> 00:05:01,600
Well, different in the sense that I didn't say those words so young.

79
00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:11,760
I waited until much later, even though in hindsight, my parents will say, no shit.

80
00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:18,920
Like I was the kid that knew all the cheers.

81
00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:22,440
I was more interested in what the cheerleaders were doing than what the basketball and football

82
00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:23,800
players on the field were doing.

83
00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:26,600
And I knew all the dances.

84
00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:33,160
You know, I loved the idea of painting your fingernails, but it was more about the color.

85
00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:39,560
Like I love the idea of, oh, there's ways that you can integrate color without.

86
00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:44,560
And you and I have talked about this expression of dulling shine and who dulls whose shine

87
00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:46,320
as we grow.

88
00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:51,920
And I quickly learned to dull that shine.

89
00:05:51,920 --> 00:06:04,160
But as I grew older and the bullying intensified, it was better for me to dull my own shine

90
00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:08,520
rather than somebody dull it for me in an aggressive or violent way.

91
00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:16,240
So I lived a very dulled shine high school, middle school years.

92
00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:23,040
And I remember, and I'll probably never forget this moment of the day after I woke up from

93
00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:30,200
like the project graduation, my senior year, where I woke up and I distinctly remember

94
00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:32,600
I'm done.

95
00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:35,840
Like I never have to do that again.

96
00:06:35,840 --> 00:06:36,840
Yeah.

97
00:06:36,840 --> 00:06:44,560
Yet I stayed closeted for another four years and didn't come out to my parents formally

98
00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:49,120
in a letter and writing until 1999.

99
00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:51,360
And you and I have referenced this before.

100
00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:58,160
One of the things that was really pivotal to my coming out story was the murder of Matthew

101
00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:02,640
Shepherd in October of 1998.

102
00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:11,520
And that was so impactful to me on a personal level as much as I knew at that point I was

103
00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:16,080
going to be a social worker and I'd been working in the health and human services industries

104
00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:18,440
across different settings.

105
00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:25,280
That death and the media attention of that death and the duality of the public outcry

106
00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:36,040
and the serves them right outcry that brought me to this place of making the decision to

107
00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:39,200
live my life more authentically.

108
00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:47,120
And my parents were incredibly supportive, like to the point of me going, well, that

109
00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:48,120
was lame.

110
00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:51,520
Like why didn't I do that six years ago?

111
00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:56,880
I had done what I think is very common for folks of my generation.

112
00:07:56,880 --> 00:08:02,680
You play around with coming out with some friends, you tell siblings, and then you keep

113
00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:03,960
these multiple secrets.

114
00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:04,960
Who knows?

115
00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:05,960
Who doesn't?

116
00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:08,760
Waiting with bated breath at every family dinner.

117
00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:09,760
Yeah.

118
00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:13,040
Who was going to say something inadvertently that was going to.

119
00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:20,120
And so when I made the decision to come out, soon after I introduced parents to my partner

120
00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:24,480
at the time, he was welcomed with open arms.

121
00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:32,720
And I remember Soren feeling this sense of guilt of not only letting them down, because

122
00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:38,440
I didn't give my parents and family and friends the opportunity to know me sooner, but letting

123
00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:40,280
myself down.

124
00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:45,840
And so a lot of my work now is spent working with families, working with youth.

125
00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:52,760
And I have kiddos that I work with as young as four or five who are questioning for them.

126
00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:57,480
It's the gender piece of this isn't my body.

127
00:08:57,480 --> 00:08:59,480
And supporting families through that.

128
00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:05,120
And then with pre-adolescence and adolescence around sexual orientation, where puberty is

129
00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:08,680
coming and those feelings are starting to intensify.

130
00:09:08,680 --> 00:09:18,360
And so you and I have different but similar stories where we were met with, let me say

131
00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:23,560
it a different way, the only hesitation we were met with wasn't about us.

132
00:09:23,560 --> 00:09:25,120
It was about the world we were living in.

133
00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:26,120
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

134
00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:34,160
Fear and anxiety of what might, especially again in my world and the heels of the Matthew

135
00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:35,880
Shepard murder.

136
00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:43,600
And then you at your age, we are living in the time where this stuff is still happening.

137
00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:48,820
I think of Next Benedict in Oklahoma, the 16 year old non-binary teen who was killed

138
00:09:48,820 --> 00:09:53,040
by several classmates in Oklahoma.

139
00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:55,680
This stuff is in the media all the time.

140
00:09:55,680 --> 00:09:59,840
So parents come by that fear, rightly.

141
00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:03,360
It is not misguided.

142
00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:12,360
And I think that we have a gap in the last 10 years or so where there's been very limited

143
00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:15,040
hate towards the queer community.

144
00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:20,400
Although there has been a large amount of it, it hasn't been picking up.

145
00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:21,400
It's been decreasing.

146
00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:23,800
Yeah, that's an interesting perspective.

147
00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:30,400
Now I think we're starting to see, at least in the media and in some political groups,

148
00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:32,200
an increased amount of hate.

149
00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:33,520
Oh, I see what you're saying.

150
00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:34,520
It's picking up.

151
00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:35,520
I see what you're saying.

152
00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:37,560
So it had slowed down a bit.

153
00:10:37,560 --> 00:10:44,160
And I wonder for my generation, that is one of the MTV.

154
00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:46,640
I think about some of the benefits of MTV.

155
00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:54,960
The first real life gay man I saw on TV was on The Real World, which was an MTV show season

156
00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:55,960
after season.

157
00:10:55,960 --> 00:11:00,840
It was my generation's version of Survivor.

158
00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:05,680
Putting a bunch of strangers into a house in a huge city and just letting the cameras

159
00:11:05,680 --> 00:11:07,040
run.

160
00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:15,480
And so my first real life, not TV media like we've talked about in previous episodes where

161
00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:20,400
the audience rolls eyes and groans and makes disgusting comments.

162
00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:25,920
But my first televised same sex kiss was from The Real World.

163
00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:35,000
The Real World was also where the AIDS epidemic from the 80s started to get more attention

164
00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:36,000
and more mainstream.

165
00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:37,600
Yeah, publicized.

166
00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:46,760
And so I love, yeah, I think what we are seeing now is the legislation of hate.

167
00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:51,480
Whereas maybe before it was the outward violent of hate.

168
00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:55,320
And I would argue, and anybody that knows me knows I talk about this often, I would

169
00:11:55,320 --> 00:12:01,640
argue that the legislation of hate, what we're seeing in legislatures all around the country

170
00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:04,840
is the legislation of hate.

171
00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:14,920
The attempt to erase LGBTQ plus identities, especially youth under the guise of parent

172
00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:15,920
rights.

173
00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:16,920
Yeah.

174
00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:22,160
Under the guise of protecting our youth from the evil queer agenda.

175
00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:29,440
Well, like it's state sanctioned empathy reduction, right?

176
00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:37,680
Like I feel like a few years ago, there was a vote in Maine about whether or not conversion

177
00:12:37,680 --> 00:12:40,320
camps should be allowed.

178
00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:46,120
And that is like, you are legislating whether or not a parent can abuse their child.

179
00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:47,120
Right.

180
00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:49,000
Or a health care provider can abuse that child.

181
00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:56,240
And beating your kids was like, just a little beating was something that was legislated

182
00:12:56,240 --> 00:13:00,240
on years ago, whether or not that was okay.

183
00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:03,600
Is it within the parent's right to hit their kid when the kid is misbehaving?

184
00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:04,600
Or teachers.

185
00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:05,600
Yeah, exactly.

186
00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:09,880
Like is corporal punishment something that should be allowed on children?

187
00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:14,520
And I feel like conversion therapy is a similar debate.

188
00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:18,000
Is it within parents' rights to abuse their kid?

189
00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:24,640
Even, and you and I feel very strongly about conversion therapy because what we both know,

190
00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:29,680
what we know personally as well as what I know professionally is that conversion therapy,

191
00:13:29,680 --> 00:13:37,160
which is any attempt to change somebody's sexual orientation or gender identity, typically

192
00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:47,720
within the guise again of counseling, a retreat, pastoral counseling, any attempt to convert

193
00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:55,200
somebody from being LGBTQ to being cisgender or heterosexual or straight is conversion

194
00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:56,200
therapy.

195
00:13:56,200 --> 00:14:01,400
And as you were referencing in Maine, that has been banned for several years.

196
00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:09,120
It's against the law for a licensed provider to do anything that tries to, for youth, that

197
00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:12,720
tries to change who they are or who they love.

198
00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:13,720
Yeah.

199
00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:15,280
That is not the case in other states.

200
00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:16,280
No, it's not.

201
00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:22,080
And what we've seen in other states where conversion therapy has passed, laws attempting

202
00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:30,120
to where a ban on conversion therapy has been passed, new laws trying to revoke the ban.

203
00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:31,120
Yeah.

204
00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:37,880
So legislated hate, legislated abuse, like again, parents come by this fear rightly.

205
00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:38,880
Yeah.

206
00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:46,240
And what I've talked about with your mom and other adults, other parents, family members,

207
00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:51,880
is how do parents hold space for two things to be true at the same time?

208
00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:59,060
I can unconditionally love and care about and support my child and I can be scared to

209
00:14:59,060 --> 00:15:00,640
death for them.

210
00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:01,640
Yeah.

211
00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:05,240
Well, I feel like those are one in the same.

212
00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:11,320
Like if you love someone and you're concerned for them, it naturally comes with fear.

213
00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:14,360
That's one of the side effects of caring for somebody.

214
00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:15,360
Yeah.

215
00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:21,240
And I think that a lot of conversion therapy and stuff, it does come from parents caring

216
00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:22,240
about their kids.

217
00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:23,240
Yeah.

218
00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:25,960
Like these aren't heartless parents that want their kids to suffer.

219
00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:34,280
These are people with a very misguided worldview and a lack of understanding about what it

220
00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:39,560
means to be queer and what that is psychologically.

221
00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:46,200
And I think what I know, and I've never had this conversation with my mom before, in that,

222
00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:53,320
so today at 50 years old, my mom seeing the life that my husband and I have and have had

223
00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:58,100
for a decade plus now, she wouldn't change a thing.

224
00:15:58,100 --> 00:16:00,920
She wants more grand babies and I get that.

225
00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:01,920
I get that.

226
00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:04,120
She wants a lot of grand babies.

227
00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:09,240
But I think what I know today is she wouldn't change a thing about who I am and the relationship

228
00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:12,360
I have with my husband.

229
00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:21,920
Thirty years ago, if you had given my mom one magic wish, she didn't wish me any harm.

230
00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:23,640
She doesn't wish any harm.

231
00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:26,920
Would she have wished my life different?

232
00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:28,400
Maybe.

233
00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:38,440
And it's not because of any animosity or any prejudice or any hate that she has in her

234
00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:39,440
heart.

235
00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:44,000
She is one of the most caring individuals I know.

236
00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:47,680
But it's the world that we live in.

237
00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:57,680
And so to your point, parents in desperation want nothing but the best for their kid.

238
00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:04,600
I believe parents universally wish that their kids have a better, easier life than the life

239
00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:05,600
that they had.

240
00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:11,520
Like in every generation wants their offspring to have it easier.

241
00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:15,080
Which has come with some other challenges and other problems.

242
00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:25,160
But I think this idea of I just want my kid's life to be easy or easier is part of being

243
00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:29,600
part of love, part of being a human, part of being a parent.

244
00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:37,080
Which is why I think it's so like sort of springboarding to another thing dealing with

245
00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:39,080
parents and youth.

246
00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:46,500
Parents love their kids and want them to feel better and feel good.

247
00:17:46,500 --> 00:17:52,000
So when a child is in crisis and a parent is interacting with them, it's an extremely

248
00:17:52,000 --> 00:18:00,680
tenuous and difficult emotional situation for the parent and they feel powerless.

249
00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:03,120
Parenting is a thing of action to some extent.

250
00:18:03,120 --> 00:18:04,120
It's a verb.

251
00:18:04,120 --> 00:18:05,120
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

252
00:18:05,120 --> 00:18:06,120
Exactly.

253
00:18:06,120 --> 00:18:14,640
And like when you rob a parent, like you listen crisis to some extent, rob their parents

254
00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:19,880
of the power to take concrete action.

255
00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:21,100
And makes them feel powerless.

256
00:18:21,100 --> 00:18:26,640
And then parents with all these extreme emotions can lash out because they want to take concrete

257
00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:28,200
action to their kids.

258
00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:33,160
And then sometimes that concrete action can be interpreted by their kids as negative,

259
00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:34,160
right?

260
00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:35,160
Right.

261
00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:36,160
That's right.

262
00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:37,160
Yeah, that's right.

263
00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:38,160
You know what?

264
00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:40,720
Here's also what I know.

265
00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:48,040
Every parent, every single parent I've ever met, whether their kid fell and scraped their

266
00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:57,400
knee, whether their kid came out and is experiencing bullying, or whether their child is dealing

267
00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:02,700
with depression and anxiety or a mental health issue and is in emotional pain.

268
00:19:02,700 --> 00:19:08,620
Every single parent I know at that moment in time would wish for whatever is causing

269
00:19:08,620 --> 00:19:10,320
the pain to go away.

270
00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:11,320
Yeah.

271
00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:25,080
When we live in a world, unfortunately, that stigmatizes, oppresses, and tries to fix queer

272
00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:27,160
youth.

273
00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:28,160
That's pain.

274
00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:29,160
Yeah.

275
00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:32,120
So what parents wouldn't want that to go away?

276
00:19:32,120 --> 00:19:33,120
Yeah.

277
00:19:33,120 --> 00:19:39,200
And if they could blink, make a wish, blow out a candle, and that which is causing the

278
00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:42,680
pain would go away.

279
00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:44,600
I get that.

280
00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:49,360
That is different than saying, I wish my kid were straight.

281
00:19:49,360 --> 00:19:50,360
Yeah.

282
00:19:50,360 --> 00:19:59,680
I wish my kid were cisgender because I think LGBTQ plus youth are damaged or less than.

283
00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:00,680
Yeah.

284
00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:02,880
Or sick or twisted.

285
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:03,880
Yeah.

286
00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:07,760
What parents are wishing is for the pain to go away.

287
00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:08,760
Yeah.

288
00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:11,200
And it's heartbreaking.

289
00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:19,160
And being queer, in I would say most cases in today's youth, comes with some degree

290
00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:21,400
of mental illness.

291
00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:31,880
The rates of mental illness for trans and queer youth is so much higher than for heterosexual

292
00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:33,520
and or cis youth.

293
00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:34,580
And why?

294
00:20:34,580 --> 00:20:37,520
Why is that?

295
00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:39,600
I waver so heavily on that.

296
00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:40,600
Like,

297
00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:44,360
Let me ask you this.

298
00:20:44,360 --> 00:20:46,840
Let me ask you this.

299
00:20:46,840 --> 00:21:01,080
If being queer, we're not stigmatized, we're not placed in the box of being sick or damaged

300
00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:03,800
or pathological.

301
00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:08,520
And I'm going to tip my hand here to my bias.

302
00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:18,000
If being queer, we're not stigmatized, that identity was not stigmatized, would the rates

303
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:24,040
of mental health and those disparities be different for queer youth?

304
00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:25,960
My bias is no.

305
00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:35,520
My bias is that the mental health stuff that we're seeing in higher rates in queer youth

306
00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:41,640
is a part of the minority stress that those queer youth are experiencing.

307
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:47,800
It's the response to discrimination and oppression and turning on the news every day and seeing

308
00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:52,960
what states are doing to queer youth.

309
00:21:52,960 --> 00:22:00,280
Just knowing that conversion therapy exists and is doing harm to kids.

310
00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:06,320
I feel like that's a huge reason.

311
00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:15,680
It's no different to the reason that I think BIPOC kids, black, indigenous people of color,

312
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:23,320
black and brown kids experience disparities in their wellness as well.

313
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:33,560
It's a response to being marginalized, being other, being excluded, being oppressed.

314
00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:41,640
I agree with you to some extent, but also even if there was no stigma around it, it

315
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:44,440
is still like you are still different.

316
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:47,080
I think that comes with its own stress.

317
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:50,200
I completely agree.

318
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:59,800
I think something unique about being queer is you are diverging from the majority identity.

319
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:02,080
You are different from others.

320
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:08,240
By diverging from your preset path, you have to figure out who you are.

321
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:16,400
Even without any social stigma, that still causes a lot of internal turmoil.

322
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:24,800
I think queerness and being trans isn't a mental illness, but it is difficult in and

323
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:25,800
of itself.

324
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:28,600
Yes, without a doubt.

325
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:33,160
I think that that contributes to mental health difficulties.

326
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:41,080
Also I think engaging with social media in my youth, I don't really engage with any of

327
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:47,600
it anymore, but a lot of the queer communities are also communities where mental illness

328
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:51,200
is normalized and festered.

329
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:56,280
By engaging with other people that are like you, you are also engaging with communities

330
00:23:56,280 --> 00:24:01,640
where there's a lot of mental illness already existing and being normalized.

331
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,960
Regardless of the cause, it's there.

332
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,960
It's there.

333
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:11,880
I'm not saying you soar, but I know you soar.

334
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:19,120
Social media wasn't a thing when I was growing up in the 80s and early 90s, obviously.

335
00:24:19,120 --> 00:24:26,340
I compared myself to my other male peers watching them date, watching them hook up, watching

336
00:24:26,340 --> 00:24:33,920
them play sports, all the things I didn't do, that process of knowing I was different

337
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:37,800
and myself wishing I wasn't different.

338
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:42,640
If I could have blinked and taken it away, I would have.

339
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:46,760
That which was causing me pain.

340
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:54,200
There was a very large period of my life where I was like, I'm so tired of being this way.

341
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,240
Of being different.

342
00:24:56,240 --> 00:25:03,280
And I, for a large period of my life, wished that I could have just been straight.

343
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:04,280
100%.

344
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:06,560
Could have been normal.

345
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:11,920
And I still have idiosyncrasies in my personality that differentiate me significantly from my

346
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:13,760
peers.

347
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:19,880
Sometimes I do find myself being like, I wish I was just a normal kid.

348
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:22,120
Whatever that even looks like.

349
00:25:22,120 --> 00:25:24,240
Whatever that even is.

350
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:29,640
But at the same time, I love who I am.

351
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:33,760
And if I was straight, no offense to straight people, but I'd be boring.

352
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:34,760
Yeah.

353
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:36,800
That's a great point.

354
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:44,640
One of my favorite topics in this category and what I work with families on all the time

355
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:48,720
is the idea of queer joy and gender euphoria.

356
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:56,160
Where we spend so much time pathologizing the identities, we don't spend nearly enough

357
00:25:56,160 --> 00:26:00,440
time celebrating the uniqueness and difference.

358
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:06,520
There's something that's so cool for me now.

359
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:08,880
Granted, it's taken me years to get here.

360
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:10,560
I love going to theaters.

361
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:11,840
I love watching shows.

362
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,960
I love singing show tunes at the top of my lungs.

363
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:16,680
I love listening to Taylor Swift.

364
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:18,120
I love boy bands.

365
00:26:18,120 --> 00:26:22,440
I love Britney and Pink and Christina.

366
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:28,160
I love watching 16 Candles and The Breakfast Club over and over and over again.

367
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:33,240
And all of those things may be cliche, but those things bring me queer joy.

368
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:34,240
Yeah.

369
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:35,960
And when I'm...

370
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:39,000
You want to see the smile on my face?

371
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:43,040
Like I'm watching Heartstopper and I'm watching queer joy.

372
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:46,160
I'm watching sex education and I'm seeing queer joy.

373
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:51,160
I'm seeing all that could be.

374
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:58,240
I am my best self when I'm living authentically as a gay man.

375
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,960
And now I wouldn't change it for a billion dollars.

376
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,200
Well, for a million dollars.

377
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,200
I would change it for a billion dollars.

378
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:07,360
Living easy.

379
00:27:07,360 --> 00:27:13,800
And so I'm thinking about how do we, you as a 17 year old, me as an almost 50 year old,

380
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:19,720
how does this translate into supporting families who are wrestling with this?

381
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:21,720
How do we help...

382
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:28,600
So much of our work, you with your peers and me clinically, is helping queer youth realize

383
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:29,600
that it does get better.

384
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:30,600
Yeah.

385
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:31,600
And just to hang in there.

386
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:32,600
It gets better.

387
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:33,600
I truly believe that.

388
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:34,600
Better days are ahead.

389
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:35,600
Best is yet to come.

390
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:36,600
Yeah.

391
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:37,600
It gets better.

392
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:42,840
And I'm realizing we're not doing justice to the families who are supporting those kids.

393
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,280
How do we help them?

394
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:52,400
Well, like me and Chris were discussing this episode topic a little earlier.

395
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:59,240
And like I said a few minutes ago, parenting is like a thing of action for the most part.

396
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:03,800
And obviously there are, like if you're kids in a mental health crisis, something of that

397
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:07,040
nature, there are decisive actions that you can take.

398
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:13,520
A therapist attempts to consult a primary care professional about medication.

399
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:16,680
A variety of steps that you can take.

400
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:23,000
However it is all about listening.

401
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:28,920
It's not about deciding, being decisive, attempting to dictate changes.

402
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:34,400
It's about hearing what the child in crisis is feeling.

403
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:35,400
Yeah.

404
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:36,400
Right?

405
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:37,720
It's about empathy.

406
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:44,480
The best thing that you can do to help your child is not to attempt to dictate their life

407
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:49,000
or attempt to augment their choices so that you think that they'll be behaving in a more

408
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:55,480
healthy way, but rather listening to why they're making their choices, how they feel.

409
00:28:55,480 --> 00:29:02,400
And from there, you can build an understanding and a healthy relationship and dynamic so

410
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:06,480
that you can start encouraging those better decisions, right?

411
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:12,960
The number one thing is to first get your child to trust you and believe that you are

412
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,480
working together to help them.

413
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:16,480
Yeah.

414
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:17,480
Authentically.

415
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:18,480
Yeah.

416
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:20,680
Like you're not saying you've got to trick them into thinking you're...

417
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:21,720
No, no.

418
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:22,720
It's really...

419
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:23,720
Oh, sorry.

420
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:25,580
I love this.

421
00:29:25,580 --> 00:29:28,920
It's really like, I got you.

422
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:29,920
I love you.

423
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,960
All that unconditional stuff.

424
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:34,720
I'm a safe person.

425
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:35,720
You can be...

426
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:37,840
We don't even have to label it.

427
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:44,480
You can be whatever you are and that is okay.

428
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:46,720
And it's allyship.

429
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:52,200
I believe that parents have to be their kid's first ally.

430
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:53,200
Yeah.

431
00:29:53,200 --> 00:30:02,760
I have a friend whose father always calls himself a manager and both of his parents

432
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:04,240
are...

433
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,320
They assume the managerial role.

434
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:14,200
Parenting in late teens, it can't be management anymore because your child needs to develop

435
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:15,200
those skills.

436
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:16,200
Yeah.

437
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:17,760
They need to develop executive processing skills.

438
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:18,960
Yeah, it's coaching.

439
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,660
It's not a management role.

440
00:30:22,660 --> 00:30:24,360
It's a cooperation.

441
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:32,200
You're now collaborating with a semi-formed young adult to figure out what is best for

442
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:37,800
them and what is best for their future.

443
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:41,120
When they're kids, it is to some extent managerial.

444
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:44,140
You can't engage with them on the same platform.

445
00:30:44,140 --> 00:30:53,320
But once they're 15, 16, 17, 18 and beyond there, you're now in a team.

446
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:54,320
You're working together.

447
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:55,320
The roles shift.

448
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:56,320
Yeah.

449
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,520
And you need to engage with them like you're working together.

450
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:10,560
Obviously you are in a position of authority and power, but that dynamic creates unhealthy

451
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:12,640
dynamics in the future.

452
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:21,360
And it makes the relationship difficult to handle for both parties.

453
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:24,920
It just is all about cooperation and empathy.

454
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:30,360
You just need to listen and work with rather than against or for.

455
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:31,360
Yeah.

456
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:32,640
Yes, all of that.

457
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:34,800
I want to take that up a notch.

458
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:39,900
A couple of weeks ago, we were talking about responding to criticism and we were talking

459
00:31:39,900 --> 00:31:46,720
about strategies that you have found helpful for you when you're in the moment of criticism.

460
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:53,480
And one of the things you said was to be mindful, to own it, to name it.

461
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:58,240
And so this feedback for families is awesome.

462
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:05,880
And I want to add to that, families also have to be mindful about what's going on for them.

463
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:13,160
So again, in my world, I love holding space for two truths.

464
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:18,160
I can support you and love you and care about you and I can be scared to death for you.

465
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:24,400
I can be your ally and I can be your champion and in your corner.

466
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:29,080
And I can really wish that things were different.

467
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:35,420
And so part of what you're saying, I also want to direct back to families of listen

468
00:32:35,420 --> 00:32:38,100
to your kid.

469
00:32:38,100 --> 00:32:43,480
It's not your job to change them, to name it as a phase or something they're going to

470
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:49,240
grow out of or any of those other non-affirming statements, but you've also got to listen

471
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:51,000
to yourself.

472
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:56,240
And you've got to be mindful about what it is that you as the parent or the caregiver

473
00:32:56,240 --> 00:33:01,120
need to be your best self in front of your kid.

474
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:06,840
And so all those same strategies of getting your kid a therapist, working with the kid's

475
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:12,340
doctor around some of the mental health stuff that you were sharing, I would apply that

476
00:33:12,340 --> 00:33:15,160
to families too.

477
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:21,280
Parents and caregivers go through a coming out process that oftentimes is a couple steps

478
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:23,840
back to the process the kid is going through.

479
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:24,840
And it makes sense, right?

480
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:27,800
The kid's been living with this in their head their whole life.

481
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:32,720
For some parents, this might be really new information, scheme of time.

482
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:35,000
I've only had a month to process this.

483
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:38,080
You've had years to process this.

484
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:46,640
Well, that's what I think is so beautiful about adapting from management and subordinate

485
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:50,760
to a team and cooperation.

486
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:51,760
Partners.

487
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,040
Partnership, sorry.

488
00:33:54,040 --> 00:34:00,920
Because now your parent and my parents express to me their emotions, which helps us build

489
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:02,040
a relationship.

490
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:07,200
You need to be open and honest on both fronts and your kid needs to have an idea of your

491
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:09,000
emotional state.

492
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:14,280
But if you want them to open up to you, you have to open up to them.

493
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:15,280
It's mutualism.

494
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:20,040
It isn't like a one sided relationship.

495
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:21,720
This is give and take.

496
00:34:21,720 --> 00:34:28,880
In order to form that bond, you have to be willing to open up about your emotions and

497
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:34,440
be willing to engage with your kid in the same way that they're engaging with you.

498
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:35,440
Yeah.

499
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:36,440
Yes.

500
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:43,560
Because I believe, here's my bias, I believe it is healthier for a parent to say, Soren,

501
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:45,480
I love what you're wearing.

502
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:51,200
I'm worried that if you wear this to school today, kids are going to come at you.

503
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:54,920
So are you prepared to have kids coming at you?

504
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,680
Rather than the parents saying, get your ass back upstairs.

505
00:34:57,680 --> 00:34:59,360
You ain't leaving the house like that.

506
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:01,400
You're going to change immediately.

507
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:09,320
I would rather just have that sense of vulnerability and authenticity with the conversation.

508
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:15,320
It's okay for a parent to say, Soren, I'm scared for you right now.

509
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:20,240
Instead of trying to control, manage the situation.

510
00:35:20,240 --> 00:35:27,800
I think that that makes teenagers so much more receptive to criticism, constructive

511
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:28,800
criticism.

512
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:34,400
By giving your rationale, rather than just saying, I'm the boss, do this.

513
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,960
You make your child want to listen to you.

514
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:45,240
And you make your child think that, oh, this person has my best interest in their mind.

515
00:35:45,240 --> 00:35:49,840
Because you're explaining how it will be better for them if they follow your advice.

516
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:50,840
That's right.

517
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:54,680
It's teaching the skill, the skill of, it's a social skill, right?

518
00:35:54,680 --> 00:36:01,800
That if I walk into a job interview and I'm maybe presenting in a way that doesn't speak

519
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:06,520
to the professionalism of the setting I'm looking to get hired in, I might not get the

520
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:07,640
job.

521
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:10,080
And so the social skill is there.

522
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:18,720
Learn how to accessorize your shine and turn your shine, your uniqueness to your, as a

523
00:36:18,720 --> 00:36:22,760
parent, your strength, not as something that's going to hold you back.

524
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:26,280
As a parent, you're a teacher to some extent.

525
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:32,080
And by teaching, you need to teach the logic behind what you're saying.

526
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:39,120
People learn things so much better when they know the backstory and the reason for it.

527
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:42,840
By parenting saying, oh, you need to do this without explaining it.

528
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:43,840
Because I said so.

529
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:44,840
Yeah.

530
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:48,400
It's the same thing as having a kid memorize their times tables without understanding what

531
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:50,120
multiplication is.

532
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:51,120
Right?

533
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:52,120
Right.

534
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:56,400
You need to teach them the basis of your ideas and advice.

535
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:57,400
Right?

536
00:36:57,400 --> 00:36:58,400
Yeah.

537
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:02,760
You and I were not the kind of kids that I told you so would ever work on.

538
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:03,760
Right?

539
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:08,360
And so that's like one of my number one things to families is that building, I love what

540
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:09,360
you're saying.

541
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:14,480
It's about building and fostering this new relationship that at some point when kids

542
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:21,320
go from this room of their house to this room of the house to go back to last week's conversation,

543
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:25,200
that you as a parent are shifting rooms with them.

544
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:26,200
Yeah.

545
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:28,680
And evolving and growing with them.

546
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:29,680
Totally.

547
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:31,840
And meeting energy where it's at.

548
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:38,480
Like the I said so, so do it and do it now does not work.

549
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:39,960
And it breeds resentment.

550
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:40,960
It sure does.

551
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:41,960
Yeah.

552
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:44,440
Yeah, it sure does.

553
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:50,780
So I'm hopeful that as folks are listening into this, maybe they're getting some suggestions

554
00:37:50,780 --> 00:37:56,640
for how to maybe approach some of these conversations in their own worlds, in their own living rooms,

555
00:37:56,640 --> 00:38:01,080
and kitchen tables, and front seat of cars.

556
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:05,640
And if it is rough, pay attention to that.

557
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:06,640
Yeah.

558
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:10,560
I'm a big believer in finding community and for families to find community.

559
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:16,280
I wish we had more support groups for lack of a better word, where parents who are going

560
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:22,240
through this with queer youth could get together and talk and give ideas, give support, give

561
00:38:22,240 --> 00:38:24,560
shoulders to cry on because it's hard.

562
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:25,560
Yeah.

563
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:27,520
Nothing that we're saying is easy.

564
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:28,720
It takes practice.

565
00:38:28,720 --> 00:38:33,840
These are muscles that have to be worked and exercised.

566
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:36,080
I don't know, Soren, what do you think?

567
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:40,600
I think that that's a fantastic spot to end off the episode.

568
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:45,280
So this has been an incredible experience.

569
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:50,200
I just want to thank you for bringing your shine into this podcast studio every week

570
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:52,480
and having these conversations with me.

571
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:56,000
I love talking to you and I love to talk.

572
00:38:56,000 --> 00:39:00,520
So this has been a fantastic time for me.

573
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:04,200
And I think it's presenting a really exciting prospect.

574
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:05,480
Yeah, I do too.

575
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:12,760
So for our listeners, if you've hung in there with us for the last 10 episodes, thank you.

576
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:16,040
This isn't the last time you'll be hearing from the Inspired Insights podcast.

577
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:17,760
Soren and I will be back.

578
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:22,240
We'd love to hear from you in our downtime over the next couple months.

579
00:39:22,240 --> 00:39:25,320
So please reach out and let us know your thoughts.

580
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:26,980
What do you want to hear more of?

581
00:39:26,980 --> 00:39:31,680
There are certainly other voices beyond just Soren's and I that we're looking forward to

582
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:36,600
maybe welcoming some guests into the podcast studio for season two.

583
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:38,160
But we want feedback from you.

584
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:47,360
We want constructive criticism, dare I say, from you all of how we can work with you all

585
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:53,560
as listeners and engage you all as listeners in this journey that we're all on to finding

586
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:56,680
better days ahead and finding our better selves ahead.

587
00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:57,680
Yeah.

588
00:39:57,680 --> 00:39:59,680
So in the short term, I am Chris McLaughlin.

589
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:01,120
I'm Soren Peterson.

590
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:03,440
This has been the Inspired Insights podcast season one.

591
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:04,440
And thank you so much.

592
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:05,440
Bye.

593
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:12,440
The Inspired Insights podcast has been brought to you by Inspired Consulting Group LLC.

594
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,280
Edited and produced by Amanda Seidel.

595
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:17,280
Music by Derek Herter.

596
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:19,720
Copyright 2024.

597
00:40:19,720 --> 00:40:31,360
All rights reserved.