1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:23,080 My friend Soren, welcome back. Happy Pride Month again. We are recording this right in 2 00:00:23,080 --> 00:00:25,600 June. Happy Pride. 3 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:35,160 Happy Pride. So today we're going to be talking about the self and the evolution of it. We're 4 00:00:35,160 --> 00:00:43,320 going to be talking about how do we figure out who we are and what does us mean, right? 5 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:49,880 Like everybody in modern society is attempting to self-actualize, but they're attempting 6 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:56,820 to achieve something that I don't think they themselves even know. We don't, I feel like 7 00:00:56,820 --> 00:01:04,080 at least myself, I struggle to figure out who I am. And I seem like a very selfish 8 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:14,320 short person, but like I try so hard to figure out a concrete idea of who I am, but the reality 9 00:01:14,320 --> 00:01:22,880 is just that I'm very fluid, right? And I spend a lot of time trying to figure out who 10 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:31,660 I am, like how I want to behave. But I think that I can behave in a bunch of different 11 00:01:31,660 --> 00:01:36,800 ways and present myself in a bunch of different ways without compromising my integrity. 12 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:41,760 Yeah. Well, it reminds us of last week's episode where we were talking about brands and how 13 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:49,360 they respond to criticism and folks attacking us and different styles of the clapback. And 14 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:58,120 I think you and I were in agreement of sort of how today who we are, how we clap back 15 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:03,800 isn't the same way we used to before. But I'm curious, I love this conversation with 16 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:12,200 you. Tell me a little bit about where that pressure for you comes in, like 20% of your 17 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:18,020 estimation of like trying to figure out who I am. What's driving that? Where's that pressure 18 00:02:18,020 --> 00:02:20,260 come from for you? 19 00:02:20,260 --> 00:02:29,600 I think it's all internally derived for the most part, but also like society really loves 20 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:36,960 when people are categorized, right? Especially high school really puts pressure on people 21 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:44,720 socially to find a niche for themselves and brand themselves in a very distinct, specific 22 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:51,160 way, which sort of like removes the nuance, right? It's very easy for us to understand 23 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:59,120 like categories of individuals and how they behave as a group without engaging with the 24 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:06,800 nuance of individuals. And like, I think in high school, I've never fit into like a proper 25 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:12,760 social niche. I have, and my entire friend group is just kind of misfits that don't really 26 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:18,240 fit into a proper social niche, which I guess misfits might be my social niche. 27 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:23,000 Yeah, but that's the bond that ties you together. 28 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:28,960 I think it's both societal and internally derived. I just have such a burning desire 29 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:34,920 to figure out who I am in like a concrete sense. And yet at the same time, I know that 30 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:44,640 I am not a like written in stone person. It will always be changing. I cannot find a concrete 31 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:50,440 ideal that I want to achieve. And if I do find a concrete ideal that I want to achieve, 32 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:56,320 I'll be constraining who I am. Yeah, right. Yeah, it's so yes. And you and I have talked 33 00:03:56,320 --> 00:04:05,080 about this across the last several episodes that, you know, I believe that our best days 34 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:13,320 are ahead. I believe that we are all works of progress. I believe that who we are tomorrow 35 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:20,400 is going to be different of perhaps who we are today. And at least for myself, when I 36 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:30,480 look back at the eras of Chris, yeah, there were some pretty unique eras, but they were 37 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:36,200 all shades of maybe a similar color. Yeah. And for me, and we talked about this last 38 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:42,400 week, that's brand, that's authenticity, that's that self. And I'm not just talking about 39 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:49,080 brand and business sense. I'm talking about how I engage the world professionally, or 40 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:58,160 personally is my brand. My brand is my color. Yeah. Therefore, I'm both successful in my 41 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:06,680 brand when I'm operating within the shade of that color. I also recognize the shade 42 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:12,160 that I'm going to be a year from now 10 years from now, it's going to be a different hue 43 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:17,560 than what we're talking about today. And at the same time, I don't know that I feel a 44 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:26,200 similar sense of pressure that you are feeling around who is Soren Peterson, who is Chris 45 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:34,320 McLaughlin. Yeah. Well, I feel like that fresher diminishes over time. Like youth are like, 46 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:39,080 especially with us having to decide what we want our future plans to be with. Like at 47 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:41,880 such an early age, like, do you want to go to college? What do you want to study when 48 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:46,760 you go to college? Are you going to enter the workforce? Like, we are deciding what 49 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:51,120 the rest of our life is for a lot of people feel like they're deciding what the rest of 50 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:57,480 their life is at a very early age. So we do have that social pressure to figure out what 51 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:05,160 we want. And like, I don't know what I want. I feel like most of my generation doesn't 52 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:11,380 know what they want. Like we're in a very unique situation where we are teenagers still 53 00:06:11,380 --> 00:06:18,040 trying to figure out who we are, let alone what we want. And yet we're in a situation 54 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:23,840 where we're about to graduate high school. We are deciding what a good portion of our 55 00:06:23,840 --> 00:06:31,600 life is going to look like right now. Yeah. That's a good reminder, Soren, that I maybe 56 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:40,280 have forgotten a little bit about what that pressure to be definitive felt like. You know, 57 00:06:40,280 --> 00:06:45,200 you are looking at being done your junior year in high school in a matter of weeks. 58 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:51,600 Yeah. And then your senior year. And all of that now that I'm talking about it, I'm hearing 59 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:58,200 your words. I'm kind of going back in time a little bit. Like I do remember this, you 60 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:03,920 know, talking about who's applying to go where it's not just, are you going to college? It's 61 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:10,880 where, what are you going to study? Back then it was what's your minor going to be like? 62 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:15,240 Not only did you have to define what you were going to major in, but there was this pressure 63 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:22,400 to be like, what are you going to minor in? It gets a lot. And I think like I am very 64 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:30,960 lucky in the fact that I have intellectual aspirations. Like I want to achieve a certain 65 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:37,600 ideal with my life. Like I know what I want to pursue academically at least. But like, 66 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:46,040 I think also in that, I know what I want to pursue academically. I'm even more lost internally 67 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:52,680 because I don't know who, like, I don't know the Soren that I want to be to approach that. 68 00:07:52,680 --> 00:08:04,280 And I have aspirations, but how can I meld myself to achieve those? Right. But also like, 69 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:08,120 I feel like teenagers have all this pressure on them because I think that their decisions 70 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:14,200 now are concrete. And I put a lot of emphasis on the fact that we're dynamic. Things can 71 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:19,640 change instantly. The decisions that we make, yes, they have gravitas and yes, they will 72 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:27,320 be impactful, but it's not like life or death. And if you don't know what you want to do, 73 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:36,720 it's even more flexibility. It's not like a crushing constraint. It's not a debuff. 74 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:38,840 It's a benefit, I think. 75 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:46,360 And here's what I know. A couple weeks ago, you shared with our listeners some hard stuff 76 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:52,460 about your own experience in mental health and crisis. And so, you know, what you shared 77 00:08:52,460 --> 00:08:58,440 a couple weeks ago was just the reality for you at that time where you didn't see yourself 78 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:08,080 having a future. Now you're at this complete 180 place where the cliche, like the world 79 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:15,360 is your oyster. You are looking at going to big places and doing some big things. 80 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:25,080 Yeah. And so maybe part of what you're wrestling with is the result of having that pause for 81 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:32,200 so long when you were in crisis for those years that you were in crisis. And now you're 82 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:37,560 in a better place, but the pressure is starting to sink in. 83 00:09:37,560 --> 00:09:44,280 Well, I think when I was in crisis, like I was afraid of making decisive decisions for 84 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:49,840 my future, right? And so instead I crafted a future for myself where I wouldn't have 85 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:55,280 to make any decisions, right? And it was very, like, it's very comforting to know what's 86 00:09:55,280 --> 00:10:01,600 going to happen, right? Like with suicidality, you're in control of your destiny and you're 87 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:08,860 in control of who you are, but like not really. But that's the illusion that it presents. 88 00:10:08,860 --> 00:10:15,100 And now I'm in a place where I have to embrace that uncertainty and jump into the abyss 89 00:10:15,100 --> 00:10:27,560 with a smile on my face rather than fall into the abyss with a sense of. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 90 00:10:27,560 --> 00:10:35,720 But like, I don't know, like I was saying, we're very dynamic and I have tried so hard 91 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:43,840 to convince myself that I don't need to create a sense of continuity with who I am. I can 92 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:50,280 be whatever I'm behaving like in the moment. And that doesn't somehow compromise who I 93 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:55,560 am long-term. It simply adds to it, right? Yeah. Do you feel like, like, I'm going to 94 00:10:55,560 --> 00:11:00,600 use your words, like your friend group is sort of the misfits, the youth who don't necessarily 95 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:08,880 ascribe or they're not welcome in some of the other fixed social strata of a typical 96 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:16,000 high school. Do you feel like it's because your friends are who your friends are, there's 97 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:23,200 a little bit more permission to be that fluidity to not necessarily have to stay in this rigid 98 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:30,800 social role of the jock or the cheerleader or the academic or totally the other groups? 99 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:39,160 Well, like we find solidarity in our sort of like misfits where we're all to some extent, 100 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:45,240 like academic achievers that don't put effort into school. Which you've talked about before. 101 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:54,800 Yeah. Much to your mother's chagrin for sure. But like, I think it is a very unique social 102 00:11:54,800 --> 00:12:01,260 situation that has allowed me to be more open to the possibilities of the future. Right? 103 00:12:01,260 --> 00:12:09,800 Because I don't feel like I used to really want to fit into a certain like social role. 104 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:16,240 I used to desire so deeply like a comfort of that. And through that, I attempted to 105 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:22,720 force myself into a variety of social roles. Like for a while I was the gay best friend, 106 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:31,840 or I was one of the boys, or I was like a druggie. Like I attempted to force myself 107 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:39,080 into a social niche so that I could feel identity and feel community. But by forcing myself 108 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:45,440 into those social niches, I felt even more lost. Because I was sort of divorcing myself 109 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:50,640 from my own personality and adopting a new one so that I could fit in somewhere. 110 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:55,520 Well you were trying on a color to use my example of shades. That wasn't you. You weren't 111 00:12:55,520 --> 00:13:04,280 authentic to you. And so I think when I talk with other youth about this idea of the social 112 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:09,680 scenes and the cliques or the groups or whatever words folks want to use for them, you know, 113 00:13:09,680 --> 00:13:16,280 there's something, there's a pro and a con here. There's something really kind of nice 114 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:21,720 about okay, I'm in this role and now I just have to play this part. It's defined for me. 115 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:28,840 I can be the stereotype of this image and it's written for me. I don't have to work 116 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:38,720 at it. The downside to that is the rigidity of having to live in this role that no other 117 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:42,120 shades, no other colors are welcome to you. 118 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:49,400 Yeah. Well, I feel like humans evolved to fit like a specific role in like a tribal 119 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:56,120 structure. And now we're thrown into an environment where there's no designated role that we have 120 00:13:56,120 --> 00:14:05,920 to pursue. We can do anything and that's scary, but that's also exciting. And like I think 121 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:16,920 about how like I want to find one thing that I am or can be, but I am all of the things 122 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:24,640 that I have been and will be. Right? Like I like to use the house metaphor that I came 123 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:33,760 up with, but I guess Taylor Swift uses a similar one. That like I am a house and throughout 124 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:40,200 my youth, I have occupied one room at a time. Each time I move into a new room, it adds 125 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:47,000 that room to my house. And I think growing up and gaining maturity is realizing that 126 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:54,880 you can be in multiple rooms at a time. And like self-actualization is adding rooms at 127 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:58,040 the same time that you're occupying your entire home. 128 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:02,640 Yeah. You're building it as you're living in it. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And I love 129 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:09,080 the house metaphor. And I'll give you credit for it. I'll give you credit for it because 130 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:16,560 Taylor's version of the house really is the rooms as her heiress. And Taylor gives herself 131 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:22,840 permission to kind of come and flow through this house. What makes your analogy a bit 132 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:30,040 more unique is this ability to exist simultaneously in different rooms. What I also love about 133 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:38,200 your house metaphor though, is this idea of foundation. Yeah. And it takes clearly a solid 134 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:45,800 foundation for you to continue to build up and out this infinite number of rooms that 135 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:51,840 you want to build in your house. But if your foundation is weak, your rooms collapse. Yeah. 136 00:15:51,840 --> 00:16:01,040 That's so true. And I think I have worked very hard to... I used to throw away my underlying 137 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:06,040 personality traits in order to pursue whatever I was attempting to pursue at the moment. 138 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:11,720 And I would totally change into a different person to adapt to a different situation. 139 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:19,800 But now I am attempting to embrace my authentic self and figure out what my unique personality 140 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:26,360 traits are. Well, also having a few couturements. Yeah. A bit of a flourish for whatever I'm 141 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:33,920 trying to try on at the moment. Yeah. You're at this age where you're figuring out your 142 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:40,240 color and you're figuring out the shades. And there's a thread that connects all your 143 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:44,600 rooms together. It's like a trail of breadcrumbs you've left for yourself. So you always find 144 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:50,040 your way back. Yeah. Because what you and I have talked about on and off this podcast 145 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:55,700 is when you were trying on those other roles that didn't feel authentic to you, you weren't 146 00:16:55,700 --> 00:17:01,500 successful in those roles. They may have brought you some relief or some temporary sense of 147 00:17:01,500 --> 00:17:08,160 fitting in or escaping other things, but it was never you. Yeah. And so often in this 148 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:16,440 podcast, Sorin, you've talked about how when you were younger, you embraced a lot of color 149 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:23,580 in your wardrobe. I remember having watched you grow up in a lot of ways. Some of the 150 00:17:23,580 --> 00:17:32,800 outfits and the attire that you showed up to places in, I was like, work, Sorin, work. 151 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:40,080 And more recently, you've talked here in this podcast about having lost that a little bit. 152 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:46,320 Yeah. So I'm wondering to get back to your house metaphor, in what room is your closet? 153 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:55,800 And does that closet still hold some of the old you and that old style that used to define 154 00:17:55,800 --> 00:18:05,600 you? Yeah. Well, what I like about the house metaphor is that we can maintain all the rooms 155 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:11,800 at once. We still have access to those. And by that, we still have access to the lessons 156 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:17,360 that we learned. And like, I think a lot of people when they switch from like a different 157 00:18:17,360 --> 00:18:23,260 social niche to another, or something of that nature, like try to alter their personality 158 00:18:23,260 --> 00:18:28,640 or aesthetic in a significant way, they try to throw away and disregard what they used 159 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:34,240 to be. But by throwing away and disregarding that, you're also disregarding the lessons 160 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:43,000 that you learned through that experience. Yeah. And going back to my wardrobe and like 161 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:51,800 how I used to express myself. I don't know if I want to achieve that ideal again, because 162 00:18:51,800 --> 00:19:00,040 that's a scary way to present in modern society, to be honest. And I think like, the way that 163 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:06,720 I want to present myself now, obviously encapsulates that to some extent. But also, I've added 164 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:13,240 onto it. Like now, honestly, I prefer like darker browns and greens. Yeah. Despite what 165 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:19,720 you're wearing today. Well, I love this cardigan. Yeah. But like, I like a more academic aesthetic. 166 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:28,080 And I don't know if I'll ever go back to the same level of color and vibrancy I once was. 167 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:37,640 But clearly, very literally, but to your point, you didn't trash and bag up and throw away 168 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:42,560 everything that existed in any of your former rooms. They're still there. And you can visit 169 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:50,640 them and you can bring them out from time to time. Amazing. Yeah. But you're not burning 170 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:55,680 it down. Exactly. You're not burning a room down before you build or after you've built 171 00:19:55,680 --> 00:20:03,040 the next one. We can be multiple things at once. And I think I struggle with that a lot. 172 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:09,520 Yeah, it's like, I always want to be not perfect. But like, I don't want to be a hypocrite. 173 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:17,800 I want to maintain continuity. I have like a very innate internal drive for like, logic, 174 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:26,200 and like a concrete foundation, and a very like hard and fast reality. Yeah. But a lot 175 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:33,560 of me growing into myself is realizing that that isn't something that I can have, right? 176 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:39,160 And it's not something that I want, really. Like, I don't want to trap myself in that 177 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:47,080 room. And I need to become used to being all the things that I am at once. Yeah. And being 178 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:55,000 able to have a toolbox with all sorts of tools from all sorts of arrows. Yeah. And maybe 179 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:59,440 like to go back to this metaphor that you're using, and I love it. Maybe instead of a toolbox, 180 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:04,680 it's a key ring. Yeah, yeah. It's a ring of keys. Yeah. And each of those keys will unlock 181 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:10,000 the lessons that you've been able to learn and take and experience from previous rooms. 182 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:18,280 And you don't have to change the locks. You just need to remain in access to what those 183 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:26,040 locks will, what's behind those doors. Yeah. You know, I, you're describing, you're articulating, 184 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:33,480 I think, a hallmark of adolescence, of figuring out who I am, who do I want to be, what's 185 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:38,400 worked for me and what hasn't. Yeah. And one of the many things I love about you and your 186 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:46,840 friend group is because of the, because of the rooms you're all currently occupying, 187 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:55,320 you haven't trapped yourself into being something you don't want to be. Yeah. You give each 188 00:21:55,320 --> 00:22:02,520 other permission and flexibility and freedom to keep building, to keep building those rooms. 189 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:12,920 Absolutely. Yeah. It's something so important to be able to do, but also, like, we talk 190 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:18,360 a lot about it's important to utilize these things, but it's very difficult to, right? 191 00:22:18,360 --> 00:22:22,880 Yeah. Like, in the moment, I struggle with it so much, but then looking back, I don't 192 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:31,880 understand why I'm struggling with this. Because like, all I need to know what I want, all 193 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:36,760 I need to know is like what I want in the moment, to some extent, and what I want my 194 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:46,880 plans to be. I need to only dictate my behavior rather than dictating who I am. Right? Like, 195 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:53,880 by behaving in a certain way, we are not somehow defining who we are internally. We are just 196 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:59,840 defining how we behave externally. Yeah. And we're all evolving. Exactly. And so part 197 00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:07,280 of the act of building new rooms is trying new stuff out and being open to exploring 198 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:13,560 other elements of our humanity. Like, that's the ability to get to the top of that Maslow 199 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:19,500 Triangle that is self-actualization is one, ensuring that all these other human needs 200 00:23:19,500 --> 00:23:25,240 have been met. Yeah. So that we can play in that sandbox at the top of the triangle, but 201 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:33,360 it's also not a complete burning down of the foundation of that triangle. Yeah. I kind 202 00:23:33,360 --> 00:23:41,920 of have distaste for the idea of self-actualization because self-actualization sort of, like as 203 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:50,040 a phrase, is very singular in what it has you infer. Whereas it's not a singular pursuit 204 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:59,040 to be self-actualized. It is a constant pursuit of what you enjoy. How can you make life better 205 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:07,920 for you and those around you? Self-actualization moves around and is in the present. It's not 206 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:16,440 a fixed place in the future. Right? Yeah. And I think we always get stuck running towards 207 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:23,840 something that we don't know where it is. Right? We're just on a treadmill going towards 208 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:36,120 some ideal, pursuing frivolities when self-actualization is in the now. It's not in the future and it 209 00:24:36,120 --> 00:24:44,000 means very different things from moment to moment. Right? Yeah. Yeah. It's when we let 210 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:50,960 the pressure that we're feeling, when we let the pressure win, for me, that's the definition 211 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:56,840 of the treadmill. Yeah. Like running for running sake. And if I stop, this treadmill is going 212 00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:01,120 to, the belt's going to throw me back against the wall. So I've got to keep my legs moving 213 00:25:01,120 --> 00:25:10,480 even though I'm exhausted. Yeah. Wow. I feel like this is one of our deeper conversation. 214 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:20,600 I love talking about stuff like this because it's like in my eyes, more surface level philosophy, 215 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:27,440 but it's so engaging and human. We're not talking about raw logic, which is what a lot 216 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:36,160 of philosophy is. We're talking about irrationality and how to pursue ourselves. Right? This isn't 217 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:40,760 something that can be logically parsed out. It's not a mathematical theorem. Yeah. Right. 218 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:47,240 Well, that's part of our brand and it's part of the brand of the inspired insights podcast 219 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:53,960 is that there's excitement in the what if. Yeah. Excitement in the what could be. Totally. 220 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:59,920 Yeah. I totally agree. Yeah. Well, listeners, if you've stuck with us through this one, 221 00:25:59,920 --> 00:26:05,280 thank you. I'm Chris McClellan. I'm Soren Peterson. And we look forward to joining with 222 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:12,160 you for our last episode of season one. My goodness. Next week. Yeah. Look forward to 223 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:17,680 it. Take care. Bye. Bye bye. The inspired insights podcast has been brought to you by 224 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:24,880 inspired consultant group LLC, edited and produced by Amanda Seidel music by Eric Herter, 225 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:35,600 copyright 2024, all rights reserved.