My friend Soren, welcome back. Happy Pride Month again. We are recording this right in
June. Happy Pride.
Happy Pride. So today we're going to be talking about the self and the evolution of it. We're
going to be talking about how do we figure out who we are and what does us mean, right?
Like everybody in modern society is attempting to self-actualize, but they're attempting
to achieve something that I don't think they themselves even know. We don't, I feel like
at least myself, I struggle to figure out who I am. And I seem like a very selfish
short person, but like I try so hard to figure out a concrete idea of who I am, but the reality
is just that I'm very fluid, right? And I spend a lot of time trying to figure out who
I am, like how I want to behave. But I think that I can behave in a bunch of different
ways and present myself in a bunch of different ways without compromising my integrity.
Yeah. Well, it reminds us of last week's episode where we were talking about brands and how
they respond to criticism and folks attacking us and different styles of the clapback. And
I think you and I were in agreement of sort of how today who we are, how we clap back
isn't the same way we used to before. But I'm curious, I love this conversation with
you. Tell me a little bit about where that pressure for you comes in, like 20% of your
estimation of like trying to figure out who I am. What's driving that? Where's that pressure
come from for you?
I think it's all internally derived for the most part, but also like society really loves
when people are categorized, right? Especially high school really puts pressure on people
socially to find a niche for themselves and brand themselves in a very distinct, specific
way, which sort of like removes the nuance, right? It's very easy for us to understand
like categories of individuals and how they behave as a group without engaging with the
nuance of individuals. And like, I think in high school, I've never fit into like a proper
social niche. I have, and my entire friend group is just kind of misfits that don't really
fit into a proper social niche, which I guess misfits might be my social niche.
Yeah, but that's the bond that ties you together.
I think it's both societal and internally derived. I just have such a burning desire
to figure out who I am in like a concrete sense. And yet at the same time, I know that
I am not a like written in stone person. It will always be changing. I cannot find a concrete
ideal that I want to achieve. And if I do find a concrete ideal that I want to achieve,
I'll be constraining who I am. Yeah, right. Yeah, it's so yes. And you and I have talked
about this across the last several episodes that, you know, I believe that our best days
are ahead. I believe that we are all works of progress. I believe that who we are tomorrow
is going to be different of perhaps who we are today. And at least for myself, when I
look back at the eras of Chris, yeah, there were some pretty unique eras, but they were
all shades of maybe a similar color. Yeah. And for me, and we talked about this last
week, that's brand, that's authenticity, that's that self. And I'm not just talking about
brand and business sense. I'm talking about how I engage the world professionally, or
personally is my brand. My brand is my color. Yeah. Therefore, I'm both successful in my
brand when I'm operating within the shade of that color. I also recognize the shade
that I'm going to be a year from now 10 years from now, it's going to be a different hue
than what we're talking about today. And at the same time, I don't know that I feel a
similar sense of pressure that you are feeling around who is Soren Peterson, who is Chris
McLaughlin. Yeah. Well, I feel like that fresher diminishes over time. Like youth are like,
especially with us having to decide what we want our future plans to be with. Like at
such an early age, like, do you want to go to college? What do you want to study when
you go to college? Are you going to enter the workforce? Like, we are deciding what
the rest of our life is for a lot of people feel like they're deciding what the rest of
their life is at a very early age. So we do have that social pressure to figure out what
we want. And like, I don't know what I want. I feel like most of my generation doesn't
know what they want. Like we're in a very unique situation where we are teenagers still
trying to figure out who we are, let alone what we want. And yet we're in a situation
where we're about to graduate high school. We are deciding what a good portion of our
life is going to look like right now. Yeah. That's a good reminder, Soren, that I maybe
have forgotten a little bit about what that pressure to be definitive felt like. You know,
you are looking at being done your junior year in high school in a matter of weeks.
Yeah. And then your senior year. And all of that now that I'm talking about it, I'm hearing
your words. I'm kind of going back in time a little bit. Like I do remember this, you
know, talking about who's applying to go where it's not just, are you going to college? It's
where, what are you going to study? Back then it was what's your minor going to be like?
Not only did you have to define what you were going to major in, but there was this pressure
to be like, what are you going to minor in? It gets a lot. And I think like I am very
lucky in the fact that I have intellectual aspirations. Like I want to achieve a certain
ideal with my life. Like I know what I want to pursue academically at least. But like,
I think also in that, I know what I want to pursue academically. I'm even more lost internally
because I don't know who, like, I don't know the Soren that I want to be to approach that.
And I have aspirations, but how can I meld myself to achieve those? Right. But also like,
I feel like teenagers have all this pressure on them because I think that their decisions
now are concrete. And I put a lot of emphasis on the fact that we're dynamic. Things can
change instantly. The decisions that we make, yes, they have gravitas and yes, they will
be impactful, but it's not like life or death. And if you don't know what you want to do,
it's even more flexibility. It's not like a crushing constraint. It's not a debuff.
It's a benefit, I think.
And here's what I know. A couple weeks ago, you shared with our listeners some hard stuff
about your own experience in mental health and crisis. And so, you know, what you shared
a couple weeks ago was just the reality for you at that time where you didn't see yourself
having a future. Now you're at this complete 180 place where the cliche, like the world
is your oyster. You are looking at going to big places and doing some big things.
Yeah. And so maybe part of what you're wrestling with is the result of having that pause for
so long when you were in crisis for those years that you were in crisis. And now you're
in a better place, but the pressure is starting to sink in.
Well, I think when I was in crisis, like I was afraid of making decisive decisions for
my future, right? And so instead I crafted a future for myself where I wouldn't have
to make any decisions, right? And it was very, like, it's very comforting to know what's
going to happen, right? Like with suicidality, you're in control of your destiny and you're
in control of who you are, but like not really. But that's the illusion that it presents.
And now I'm in a place where I have to embrace that uncertainty and jump into the abyss
with a smile on my face rather than fall into the abyss with a sense of. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
But like, I don't know, like I was saying, we're very dynamic and I have tried so hard
to convince myself that I don't need to create a sense of continuity with who I am. I can
be whatever I'm behaving like in the moment. And that doesn't somehow compromise who I
am long-term. It simply adds to it, right? Yeah. Do you feel like, like, I'm going to
use your words, like your friend group is sort of the misfits, the youth who don't necessarily
ascribe or they're not welcome in some of the other fixed social strata of a typical
high school. Do you feel like it's because your friends are who your friends are, there's
a little bit more permission to be that fluidity to not necessarily have to stay in this rigid
social role of the jock or the cheerleader or the academic or totally the other groups?
Well, like we find solidarity in our sort of like misfits where we're all to some extent,
like academic achievers that don't put effort into school. Which you've talked about before.
Yeah. Much to your mother's chagrin for sure. But like, I think it is a very unique social
situation that has allowed me to be more open to the possibilities of the future. Right?
Because I don't feel like I used to really want to fit into a certain like social role.
I used to desire so deeply like a comfort of that. And through that, I attempted to
force myself into a variety of social roles. Like for a while I was the gay best friend,
or I was one of the boys, or I was like a druggie. Like I attempted to force myself
into a social niche so that I could feel identity and feel community. But by forcing myself
into those social niches, I felt even more lost. Because I was sort of divorcing myself
from my own personality and adopting a new one so that I could fit in somewhere.
Well you were trying on a color to use my example of shades. That wasn't you. You weren't
authentic to you. And so I think when I talk with other youth about this idea of the social
scenes and the cliques or the groups or whatever words folks want to use for them, you know,
there's something, there's a pro and a con here. There's something really kind of nice
about okay, I'm in this role and now I just have to play this part. It's defined for me.
I can be the stereotype of this image and it's written for me. I don't have to work
at it. The downside to that is the rigidity of having to live in this role that no other
shades, no other colors are welcome to you.
Yeah. Well, I feel like humans evolved to fit like a specific role in like a tribal
structure. And now we're thrown into an environment where there's no designated role that we have
to pursue. We can do anything and that's scary, but that's also exciting. And like I think
about how like I want to find one thing that I am or can be, but I am all of the things
that I have been and will be. Right? Like I like to use the house metaphor that I came
up with, but I guess Taylor Swift uses a similar one. That like I am a house and throughout
my youth, I have occupied one room at a time. Each time I move into a new room, it adds
that room to my house. And I think growing up and gaining maturity is realizing that
you can be in multiple rooms at a time. And like self-actualization is adding rooms at
the same time that you're occupying your entire home.
Yeah. You're building it as you're living in it. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And I love
the house metaphor. And I'll give you credit for it. I'll give you credit for it because
Taylor's version of the house really is the rooms as her heiress. And Taylor gives herself
permission to kind of come and flow through this house. What makes your analogy a bit
more unique is this ability to exist simultaneously in different rooms. What I also love about
your house metaphor though, is this idea of foundation. Yeah. And it takes clearly a solid
foundation for you to continue to build up and out this infinite number of rooms that
you want to build in your house. But if your foundation is weak, your rooms collapse. Yeah.
That's so true. And I think I have worked very hard to... I used to throw away my underlying
personality traits in order to pursue whatever I was attempting to pursue at the moment.
And I would totally change into a different person to adapt to a different situation.
But now I am attempting to embrace my authentic self and figure out what my unique personality
traits are. Well, also having a few couturements. Yeah. A bit of a flourish for whatever I'm
trying to try on at the moment. Yeah. You're at this age where you're figuring out your
color and you're figuring out the shades. And there's a thread that connects all your
rooms together. It's like a trail of breadcrumbs you've left for yourself. So you always find
your way back. Yeah. Because what you and I have talked about on and off this podcast
is when you were trying on those other roles that didn't feel authentic to you, you weren't
successful in those roles. They may have brought you some relief or some temporary sense of
fitting in or escaping other things, but it was never you. Yeah. And so often in this
podcast, Sorin, you've talked about how when you were younger, you embraced a lot of color
in your wardrobe. I remember having watched you grow up in a lot of ways. Some of the
outfits and the attire that you showed up to places in, I was like, work, Sorin, work.
And more recently, you've talked here in this podcast about having lost that a little bit.
Yeah. So I'm wondering to get back to your house metaphor, in what room is your closet?
And does that closet still hold some of the old you and that old style that used to define
you? Yeah. Well, what I like about the house metaphor is that we can maintain all the rooms
at once. We still have access to those. And by that, we still have access to the lessons
that we learned. And like, I think a lot of people when they switch from like a different
social niche to another, or something of that nature, like try to alter their personality
or aesthetic in a significant way, they try to throw away and disregard what they used
to be. But by throwing away and disregarding that, you're also disregarding the lessons
that you learned through that experience. Yeah. And going back to my wardrobe and like
how I used to express myself. I don't know if I want to achieve that ideal again, because
that's a scary way to present in modern society, to be honest. And I think like, the way that
I want to present myself now, obviously encapsulates that to some extent. But also, I've added
onto it. Like now, honestly, I prefer like darker browns and greens. Yeah. Despite what
you're wearing today. Well, I love this cardigan. Yeah. But like, I like a more academic aesthetic.
And I don't know if I'll ever go back to the same level of color and vibrancy I once was.
But clearly, very literally, but to your point, you didn't trash and bag up and throw away
everything that existed in any of your former rooms. They're still there. And you can visit
them and you can bring them out from time to time. Amazing. Yeah. But you're not burning
it down. Exactly. You're not burning a room down before you build or after you've built
the next one. We can be multiple things at once. And I think I struggle with that a lot.
Yeah, it's like, I always want to be not perfect. But like, I don't want to be a hypocrite.
I want to maintain continuity. I have like a very innate internal drive for like, logic,
and like a concrete foundation, and a very like hard and fast reality. Yeah. But a lot
of me growing into myself is realizing that that isn't something that I can have, right?
And it's not something that I want, really. Like, I don't want to trap myself in that
room. And I need to become used to being all the things that I am at once. Yeah. And being
able to have a toolbox with all sorts of tools from all sorts of arrows. Yeah. And maybe
like to go back to this metaphor that you're using, and I love it. Maybe instead of a toolbox,
it's a key ring. Yeah, yeah. It's a ring of keys. Yeah. And each of those keys will unlock
the lessons that you've been able to learn and take and experience from previous rooms.
And you don't have to change the locks. You just need to remain in access to what those
locks will, what's behind those doors. Yeah. You know, I, you're describing, you're articulating,
I think, a hallmark of adolescence, of figuring out who I am, who do I want to be, what's
worked for me and what hasn't. Yeah. And one of the many things I love about you and your
friend group is because of the, because of the rooms you're all currently occupying,
you haven't trapped yourself into being something you don't want to be. Yeah. You give each
other permission and flexibility and freedom to keep building, to keep building those rooms.
Absolutely. Yeah. It's something so important to be able to do, but also, like, we talk
a lot about it's important to utilize these things, but it's very difficult to, right?
Yeah. Like, in the moment, I struggle with it so much, but then looking back, I don't
understand why I'm struggling with this. Because like, all I need to know what I want, all
I need to know is like what I want in the moment, to some extent, and what I want my
plans to be. I need to only dictate my behavior rather than dictating who I am. Right? Like,
by behaving in a certain way, we are not somehow defining who we are internally. We are just
defining how we behave externally. Yeah. And we're all evolving. Exactly. And so part
of the act of building new rooms is trying new stuff out and being open to exploring
other elements of our humanity. Like, that's the ability to get to the top of that Maslow
Triangle that is self-actualization is one, ensuring that all these other human needs
have been met. Yeah. So that we can play in that sandbox at the top of the triangle, but
it's also not a complete burning down of the foundation of that triangle. Yeah. I kind
of have distaste for the idea of self-actualization because self-actualization sort of, like as
a phrase, is very singular in what it has you infer. Whereas it's not a singular pursuit
to be self-actualized. It is a constant pursuit of what you enjoy. How can you make life better
for you and those around you? Self-actualization moves around and is in the present. It's not
a fixed place in the future. Right? Yeah. And I think we always get stuck running towards
something that we don't know where it is. Right? We're just on a treadmill going towards
some ideal, pursuing frivolities when self-actualization is in the now. It's not in the future and it
means very different things from moment to moment. Right? Yeah. Yeah. It's when we let
the pressure that we're feeling, when we let the pressure win, for me, that's the definition
of the treadmill. Yeah. Like running for running sake. And if I stop, this treadmill is going
to, the belt's going to throw me back against the wall. So I've got to keep my legs moving
even though I'm exhausted. Yeah. Wow. I feel like this is one of our deeper conversation.
I love talking about stuff like this because it's like in my eyes, more surface level philosophy,
but it's so engaging and human. We're not talking about raw logic, which is what a lot
of philosophy is. We're talking about irrationality and how to pursue ourselves. Right? This isn't
something that can be logically parsed out. It's not a mathematical theorem. Yeah. Right.
Well, that's part of our brand and it's part of the brand of the inspired insights podcast
is that there's excitement in the what if. Yeah. Excitement in the what could be. Totally.
Yeah. I totally agree. Yeah. Well, listeners, if you've stuck with us through this one,
thank you. I'm Chris McClellan. I'm Soren Peterson. And we look forward to joining with
you for our last episode of season one. My goodness. Next week. Yeah. Look forward to
it. Take care. Bye. Bye bye. The inspired insights podcast has been brought to you by
inspired consultant group LLC, edited and produced by Amanda Seidel music by Eric Herter,
copyright 2024, all rights reserved.