1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:19,080 Welcome back, Soren. 2 00:00:19,080 --> 00:00:20,560 Yes, back in the studio. 3 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:22,440 Back in the studio. 4 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:26,640 This has been really amazing experience for me, 5 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:28,120 hanging out with you like this. 6 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:31,920 I think that it's been like so rewarding for me 7 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:34,120 because I love to talk. 8 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:36,040 I love to chat about everything. 9 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:38,360 And I don't really have a fantastic outlet 10 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:40,880 for some of these deeper subjects. 11 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:43,560 So I think that this is a really like cathartic experience. 12 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:45,240 Yeah, that's a great word for it. 13 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:45,760 Yeah. 14 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:49,320 So last week, we were talking about queer media. 15 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:51,800 And when we were wrapping up the conversation, 16 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:57,080 you made a statement about you and maybe some of your friends 17 00:00:57,080 --> 00:01:03,080 feeling like this idea of queer representation in the media 18 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:05,200 is just the way it is now. 19 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:10,080 Like it's just you don't have as strong of a feeling about it 20 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:11,200 that I have. 21 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:14,200 Having missed that representation in my childhood 22 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:18,160 and formative years, for you and your peer group, 23 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:19,640 this is just the way it is. 24 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:21,760 And so these queer identities are just 25 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:23,760 woven into these story lines. 26 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:26,640 And you don't even blink an eye. 27 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:28,920 And it got me thinking about the topic 28 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:31,600 we wanted to bring up today, which 29 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:36,440 is around stigma and mental health. 30 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:39,120 And when we were prepping for this conversation, 31 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:41,720 you made a comment that was also really interesting to me. 32 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:44,800 And it reminded me of what we talked about last week, 33 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:51,240 where you said, for you and your folks your age, 34 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:55,480 you don't necessarily feel like there is a negative stigma 35 00:01:55,480 --> 00:02:00,440 or as much of a negative stigma around mental health. 36 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:05,840 Because for you and your peer group, this is just a thing. 37 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:08,000 Can you talk a little bit more about that? 38 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:12,400 Well, obviously, people frown upon the negative behaviors 39 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:14,240 which mental illness evokes. 40 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:20,440 But the discussion of it is so normalized. 41 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:23,760 In my peer group, at least, open, honest conversations 42 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:27,720 about our mental health and our mental health journey 43 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:30,640 is such a normal and common occurrence. 44 00:02:30,640 --> 00:02:38,880 And I think we have no, I guess, what's 45 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:40,640 the word I'm trying to come up with? 46 00:02:40,640 --> 00:02:41,680 Resitance? 47 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:43,040 Maybe. 48 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:48,600 Yeah, we don't feel cautious around the subject. 49 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:51,320 We approach it bluntly, I would say. 50 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:53,240 And it's not seen as something that you 51 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:58,320 have to tiptoe around or try to augment 52 00:02:58,320 --> 00:02:59,960 the way that you're speaking. 53 00:02:59,960 --> 00:03:01,280 It's very normalized. 54 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:09,680 So for you and your friends, it's not abnormal to both say, 55 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:10,280 how you doing? 56 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:11,720 I'm noticing you're a little down 57 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:13,560 or you haven't been quite yourself lately. 58 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:15,480 Or to say, you know what? 59 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:16,880 I'm not feeling great. 60 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:17,400 Yeah, yeah. 61 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:20,720 That's a very normal conversation to have. 62 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:24,000 I would say maybe this is unique to my friend group, 63 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:26,720 but I feel like it's fairly pervasive. 64 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:32,920 Discussions of mental health and general standing emotionally 65 00:03:32,920 --> 00:03:36,520 is so normal and common. 66 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:42,160 And my friend group, a lot of us have had fairly extreme 67 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:45,280 histories with mental illness. 68 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:47,960 And I think the way that we approach it 69 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:51,400 is so different to the way that it used to be approached. 70 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:54,720 And maybe you could share a little bit about your, 71 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:56,920 I guess, understanding of what mental health 72 00:03:56,920 --> 00:03:59,440 and what mental illness was in your youth. 73 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:03,040 Yeah, the exact opposite of how you're describing it, 74 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:04,720 if I can be very blunt. 75 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:14,000 I don't have any memory of ever saying to one of my childhood, 76 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:16,760 when I say childhood, I'm thinking school age, 77 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:19,960 kindergarten through high school. 78 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:25,320 I can't think of one time where I have said, 79 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:28,640 I'm feeling really down or depressed. 80 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:33,960 I think stressed is probably the word that my generation used 81 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:39,160 most to reflect anything not baseline, stressed. 82 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:41,320 And stressed might mean I'm anxious. 83 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:43,000 Stressed might mean I'm down. 84 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:45,320 Stressed might mean I'm frustrated or angry. 85 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:49,480 But that was just sort of like, I'm stressed. 86 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:55,000 Nor do I remember, despite what I do for a living, 87 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:58,640 I don't remember ever checking in with other friends 88 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:02,360 to say, this is out of character for you. 89 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:03,400 How are you? 90 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:04,920 What's going on in your life? 91 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:09,720 Well, I think the reason it's been so normalized in my age 92 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:15,200 group is just the raw prevalence of extreme emotional 93 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:18,200 experiences that we've all had. 94 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:20,520 There is a mental health crisis in our youth. 95 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:24,240 And as a result of that, we can have far more open and honest 96 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:27,680 dialogues because the vast majority of us 97 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,760 have, at least to some extent, dealt with similar issues. 98 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:33,240 Yeah, so it's so normalized. 99 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:37,560 And as a behavioral health provider and somebody 100 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:40,560 who speaks on these topics often, 101 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:45,480 I know that this behavioral crisis is unlike anything 102 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:47,320 we've seen, both here in our state of Maine 103 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:49,920 but also across our country. 104 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:54,120 Wait lists, demand for services, and workforce shortages 105 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:57,280 are just like, we're in the eye, maybe. 106 00:05:57,280 --> 00:06:00,760 We're approaching the eye of this perfect storm. 107 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:03,800 That, as a provider, terrifies me. 108 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:08,920 Yet when I talk to you about your perception 109 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:13,600 of a lack of stigma, it actually gives me a little bit of hope 110 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:20,120 because in my world, stigma is one of the barriers 111 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:23,320 to being able to talk openly about wellness. 112 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:28,440 Stigma, whether we're afraid to appear weak, 113 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:34,240 whether we're afraid to be acting in a way that doesn't fit 114 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:36,560 with our gender role or our assigned gender role, 115 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:44,800 like as growing up male, we boys don't talk about feelings. 116 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:47,160 And as we've talked about in a previous podcast, 117 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:51,520 I was so deeply in the closet that I never 118 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:56,960 would consider doing anything that publicly or interpersonally 119 00:06:56,960 --> 00:07:00,560 threw my gender role into question. 120 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:06,320 So being stoic, even though I felt things very deeply, 121 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:11,000 very deeply, I wouldn't ever do anything 122 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:15,440 to be able to say, I'm not well, I'm not doing OK. 123 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:17,760 I worry would have put a bigger target on my back. 124 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:19,920 Now, whether it would have in real life or not, 125 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:22,280 I'm not sure, but that's what it felt like. 126 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:26,920 And that is a part of what stigma looks like to me. 127 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:31,960 Well, I do see that male stoicism in a lot of my friends 128 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:36,160 because I do have several male friends, cisgender male friends 129 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:38,960 that do identify with that gender role strongly 130 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:41,800 and identify with being stoic. 131 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:43,200 But yet, at the same time, they're 132 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:46,320 struggling with deep emotional crises. 133 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:50,480 And I think I've intentionally spent a lot of time attempting 134 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:54,360 to break down the idea of stoicism 135 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:58,160 and try to have blunt conversations, which 136 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:01,240 I don't know if it's me introducing the topic 137 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:05,960 or them genuinely desiring to have real conversations. 138 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:06,520 Maybe both. 139 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:07,040 Yeah, yeah. 140 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:11,240 I feel like stoicism serves as such a barrier to attempting 141 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:13,440 to actually be productive mentally. 142 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:14,120 Yeah. 143 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:15,000 Oh my gosh. 144 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:17,800 Yeah, absolute block for sure. 145 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:23,840 Yeah, you know, I feel like professionally, I 146 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:32,400 see stigma being such a hurdle for folks my age 147 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:35,720 and maybe the in-between generations from you and I, 148 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:43,360 so folks who are currently in their early or mid-20s, who 149 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:49,200 are maybe experiencing things like parenthood or life 150 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:51,600 after college or life after grad school or life 151 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:56,960 after trade school, where pressure is also quite high 152 00:08:56,960 --> 00:08:58,720 just in a very different way. 153 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:03,880 And I think here's a wonder I have. 154 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:08,480 And let me know if this jives for folks in your age bracket. 155 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:13,560 The experience of the pandemic, where 156 00:09:13,560 --> 00:09:19,920 there was a concerted effort to get this PSA type message 157 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:22,880 out there of check in with your friends. 158 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:25,400 When we were in full lockdown mode, 159 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:30,760 where social interaction was essentially cut off, 160 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:33,000 as a behavioral health provider, I 161 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:39,280 know that what I both preached and practiced was check in, 162 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:45,600 make it weird, ask folks, especially your male friends, 163 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:46,920 ask them how they're doing. 164 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:49,840 And portray yourself as being somebody 165 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:53,360 who is safe and non-judgmental to acknowledge, 166 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:54,200 I'm not well. 167 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:57,720 Because to your point, what we knew through the pandemic 168 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:01,200 was the vast majority of us at one time or another 169 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:04,280 were not well during that period of time. 170 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:06,200 Well, OK. 171 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:10,480 I don't think that necessarily the PSA during the pandemic, 172 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:12,760 go check in with your friends, resulted in this. 173 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:19,120 However, I think the pandemic super indirectly impacted that. 174 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:23,360 During the pandemic, a lot of my friends and myself included 175 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:26,680 were extremely emotionally isolated. 176 00:10:26,680 --> 00:10:31,040 And that created extreme negative emotional experiences 177 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:31,920 for us. 178 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:35,320 And with a lot of my friends, it was like life or death 179 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:37,040 situation, the pandemic. 180 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:37,960 Yeah, quite literally. 181 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:39,320 Quite literally. 182 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:41,560 For me, definitely. 183 00:10:41,560 --> 00:10:44,800 So now coming off of that, we have 184 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:47,760 learned the necessity of communication. 185 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:51,160 Rather than learning that by being told to do so, 186 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:54,480 we, through our experience, now understand 187 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:57,040 the gravity of the situation and understand 188 00:10:57,040 --> 00:11:00,760 that we need to be a support system for each other. 189 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:01,960 So let me ask you this. 190 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:08,640 Was this idea of being more open about your wellness 191 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:11,800 or your absence of wellness for you and your friends, 192 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:14,840 did that exist prior to March of 2020? 193 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:17,920 Or did the experience of March 2020 194 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:21,320 help move you and your peer group 195 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:25,320 into this enhanced comfort of just acknowledging, validating, 196 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:27,880 and talking through tough times? 197 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:29,200 Well, OK. 198 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:31,720 I think that my mother and my father 199 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:35,360 have ingrained in me really healthy emotional 200 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:40,160 and interpersonal habits with communication about emotions. 201 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:43,800 And I think those skills that they've given me 202 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:45,600 have been so beneficial. 203 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:47,480 So I did have an idea of that. 204 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:49,120 And I understood, to some extent, 205 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:55,800 the importance of communication about emotion before that time. 206 00:11:55,800 --> 00:12:01,920 However, it wasn't really seen as a necessity before then. 207 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:05,360 And I don't think I had the depth of relationships 208 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:07,880 in March of 2020 that I do right now, 209 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:11,960 nor do I have any of the same friends. 210 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:15,400 In March of 2020, I was still a small child. 211 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:18,440 I was, I think, 12. 212 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:19,560 Yeah, good point. 213 00:12:19,560 --> 00:12:20,080 Good point. 214 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:20,840 Yeah. 215 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:23,960 Yeah, so it wasn't. 216 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:26,480 I didn't have the depth of emotion that I have now. 217 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:28,160 And I was a scared little child. 218 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:29,400 Yeah. 219 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:30,800 Yeah. 220 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:35,440 Yeah, but I do think that communication about emotions 221 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:36,920 has been something that's been emphasized 222 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:38,240 throughout my entire youth. 223 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:40,880 But I don't think that that's the case for really 224 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:43,000 any of my friends, actually. 225 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:45,840 Yeah, and I think about some of the young people 226 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:50,600 that I know and work, know interpersonally 227 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:53,800 and know professionally. 228 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:58,080 I would suggest that maybe for you and your peer group, 229 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:04,320 you have normalized this checking in, perhaps 230 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:08,120 to a higher degree than what other similar age kids are 231 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:09,160 doing. 232 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:13,200 And I also wonder, because you have 233 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:17,960 shared parts of your own journey with mental illness 234 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:22,480 and some of the situations that you and friends have been in. 235 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:27,760 So the commonality of some of your lived experiences 236 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:29,600 with mental health and wellness maybe 237 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:34,920 has opened up the door to be more vulnerable 238 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:36,080 and transparent. 239 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:37,120 Yeah, yeah. 240 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:41,520 I still know a significant number of young people, 241 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:44,880 especially young boys, young males, 242 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:51,080 who would rather step on a nail than say, 243 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:52,720 I'm struggling right now. 244 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:59,120 Well, that's such a conflict that so many people face. 245 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:03,880 It's very difficult. And a lot of my friends 246 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:06,360 feel guilty when they're talking about issues 247 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:08,800 that they're having, because I think that they're saddling 248 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:10,800 someone else with their burden. 249 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:12,320 They feel like they're good. 250 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:15,360 They feel guilty for putting their emotions 251 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:17,000 onto someone else, because they feel 252 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:20,880 like they're creating a negative experience for others 253 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:22,720 around them, rather than attempting 254 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:24,400 to lower their burden. 255 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:28,400 But is the communication so open that as the receiver 256 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:34,920 of their struggle, you are imagining there's a pathway 257 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:36,400 to saying, you know what? 258 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:39,840 I don't know that I'm in a space to hear or adequately support 259 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:41,840 you with what you're going through right now. 260 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:42,560 Yeah, yeah. 261 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:45,840 And kind of put up that no trauma dumping allowed 262 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:46,600 right now. 263 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:53,600 I don't think that that's been, at least in my group, 264 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:58,240 I think that we're all very able to, to some extent. 265 00:14:58,240 --> 00:14:59,200 To have those boundaries. 266 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:01,280 To have those boundaries just naturally. 267 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:03,440 Like, it doesn't have to be something that's set forth. 268 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:07,840 We can all just vibe out the comfortability level of others. 269 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:12,880 And you, I think, can, through understanding the conversation 270 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:15,760 and how it's flowing and knowing your peers, 271 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:19,120 make those boundaries sort of non-verbally. 272 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:20,800 And I think that's what we do. 273 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:22,280 Yeah. 274 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:27,480 But I know myself, whenever I get, 275 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:30,240 like someone shares an emotional experience with me, 276 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:31,680 I feel relieved. 277 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:34,080 I don't feel emotionally burdened 278 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:35,560 by what they have to say. 279 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:37,960 Because I feel like, A, I'm helping someone, 280 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:39,600 and that makes me feel fantastic. 281 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:42,280 Like, I think it actually fills my bucket. 282 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:42,800 Yeah. 283 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:47,640 Because I am super interested in what my friends have going on. 284 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:50,120 I would love to hear their life experience. 285 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:53,840 And by listening to that, I feel like I've helped them. 286 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:56,560 And then I leave feeling fulfilled, 287 00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:59,480 feeling more in the know and not worrying about them. 288 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:00,640 Yeah. 289 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:03,480 And I feel like rewarding. 290 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:04,000 Yeah. 291 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:05,640 It's a rewarding experience for me. 292 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:06,240 Yeah. 293 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:09,760 And you are such an empathic person as well. 294 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:10,400 I try to be. 295 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:10,920 You are. 296 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:12,480 You absolutely are. 297 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:13,800 You know, it's interesting. 298 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:16,480 Like, last week, we were talking about queer media. 299 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:19,520 And my experience growing up in the absence 300 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:24,040 of healthy, inclusive role models or representation 301 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:27,000 in the media, I feel like mental health, for me, 302 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:29,040 is the same way. 303 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:33,560 The stigma or the stereotype of mental illness 304 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:39,320 back in my childhood looked like the homeless person talking 305 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:41,600 to themselves on the streets. 306 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:50,720 It looked like a more violent, not what's 307 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:52,640 the word I'm looking for. 308 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:53,560 Uncontrollable. 309 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:54,320 Yeah. 310 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:55,440 Sort of unpredictable. 311 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:56,360 Unpredictable. 312 00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:59,280 Like, they could snap at any minute. 313 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:07,000 And therefore, acknowledging these universal emotions 314 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:12,720 of depression, sadness, all the shades of depression, 315 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:17,080 all the shades of the anxiety colors 316 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:20,720 might mean that people are going to see me like that. 317 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:22,280 So I better not talk about it. 318 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:24,600 Well, I think up until very recently, 319 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:26,400 you mentioned this vision of mental illness 320 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:31,480 as in very extreme situations with homeless people. 321 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:33,600 That was the only mental illness that 322 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:36,800 was made visible because people were so afraid to share 323 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:40,040 their experiences. 324 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:42,920 So then that was the only thing that we saw of mental illness. 325 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:44,480 So then when someone else attempted 326 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:45,760 to come forward about their experience, 327 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:47,080 we would associate them with that. 328 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:49,280 That's right. 329 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:51,040 And then more people would be like, oh, now 330 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:52,600 I can't share my experience. 331 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:56,560 And I think it's a super recent phenomenon 332 00:17:56,560 --> 00:18:01,600 that we're seeing mental illness not as something to be feared 333 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:05,160 or necessarily an objective negative, 334 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:07,760 but rather a universal experience 335 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:12,360 that one can grow from that can be positive in the long run 336 00:18:12,360 --> 00:18:17,960 and that needs to be addressed in a not professional, 337 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:20,040 but a serious way. 338 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:22,440 And actually, this is sort of pivoting. 339 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:25,880 But I see a lot of youth addressing 340 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:27,440 their mental health crises. 341 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:32,120 And I do this myself to cope through jokes. 342 00:18:32,120 --> 00:18:34,200 And it's seen as something very jovial. 343 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:36,640 And I think that is important to some extent. 344 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:39,600 But also, I think it can be negative 345 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:42,560 because it doesn't address the gravity of the situation. 346 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:44,760 And in a lot of these situations, 347 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:46,880 it's people's lives in the balance. 348 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:48,760 It needs to be a serious conversation. 349 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:49,800 Yeah, I could not agree. 350 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:50,640 It can't be off the top of the horse. 351 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:51,600 I couldn't agree more. 352 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:52,840 Yeah, yeah. 353 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:57,000 And this idea of stigma, which as you've been talking about, 354 00:18:57,000 --> 00:18:59,080 is connected to stereotype, which 355 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:01,320 is connected to prejudice, which is connected 356 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:07,080 to unconscious implicit bias, runs so deep as well 357 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:12,040 that for folks with more years on this planet, 358 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:15,280 there's a lot more for us to have to unpack. 359 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:18,880 Let me give you a fairly recent example. 360 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:24,840 So I see myself very humbly as a pretty decent social worker. 361 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:25,360 Yeah. 362 00:19:25,360 --> 00:19:27,360 I think I'm pretty good at what I do. 363 00:19:27,360 --> 00:19:28,440 I think you're fantastic. 364 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:29,480 Thanks. 365 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:30,960 And let me tell you this story. 366 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:33,360 So several weeks ago, I was in Portland, 367 00:19:33,360 --> 00:19:35,720 which is probably Maine's largest city, 368 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:37,880 just a couple hours south of where we are now. 369 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:39,560 And I was meeting friends. 370 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:46,040 And they gave me an address for a parking garage area. 371 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:47,520 And I was going to meet them there. 372 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:49,760 We were going to go to dinner and see a show. 373 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:50,840 So I got there first. 374 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:52,640 And it was an outdoor parking area, 375 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:57,280 very unlike what we have here in our neck of Maine. 376 00:19:57,280 --> 00:19:58,720 And so I got there first. 377 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:00,800 And so I parked the car. 378 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:04,320 Got out and paid for the parking. 379 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:06,680 Coming back into my car, I noticed 380 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:10,280 a gentleman kind of emerge from the bushes 381 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:12,600 from around a building. 382 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:15,920 And instantly, I recognized two things. 383 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:18,240 I recognized that this individual looked 384 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:22,760 the part of somebody whose absence of housing 385 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:29,800 and either struggling within an acute mental health issue 386 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:32,360 or was under the influence of something. 387 00:20:32,360 --> 00:20:35,960 So as I walked to my car, monitoring 388 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:39,600 where he was the whole time, being the really good social 389 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:42,240 worker that I think I am, what do you think I did 390 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:43,480 the minute I got in my car? 391 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:50,840 OK, what I think you did I think is different from, 392 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:53,880 I think you locked your car and drove away. 393 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:55,400 I didn't drive away. 394 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,840 I locked my car door and reclined my seat 395 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:00,560 to be under the view. 396 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:05,040 Now here's what, and I didn't give a second thought 397 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:06,840 of doing that. 398 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:10,600 It was three things happening almost instantaneously, 399 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:12,440 locking the door, reclining my seat, 400 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:17,240 and pulling up my phone to get either my friends that I was 401 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:19,760 meeting or 911 on speed dial. 402 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:23,600 It wasn't for a couple seconds that my intellectual social 403 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:25,280 worker brain kicked in. 404 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:30,000 And I said to myself, Chris, you know that statistically 405 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:31,960 speaking, homeless individuals are 406 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:35,600 more likely to be the victims of violence than the perpetrators. 407 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:39,160 And individuals with mental health issues, 408 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:40,560 behavioral health issues, are more 409 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:43,400 likely to be the victims of violence than the perpetrators. 410 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:46,280 I know that the data supports that. 411 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:53,440 Yet this idea of mental illness is dangerous and unpredictable. 412 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:59,040 And I was at risk was so pervasive for the 50 years 413 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:02,560 I've been on this planet that without even thinking about it, 414 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:05,440 I locked my door, hid from view, and got my phone ready. 415 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:09,640 Well, we've been trained to see that as like, that is danger. 416 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:11,080 That's not a person. 417 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:12,200 That's like a threat. 418 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:13,880 Yeah, that's a walking threat. 419 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:14,920 Yep. 420 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:17,960 Right, and I think actually that ties into like a modern, 421 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:20,480 the man versus the bear. 422 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,160 Like, you're so much more likely, 423 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:25,880 assuming it's just like a randomly selected man, 424 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:29,800 to have like a bear mutilate you. 425 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:32,920 But like, we are, women are trained 426 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:38,200 to be afraid of liabilities because it can be dangerous. 427 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:40,760 But also, it's dehumanizing to some extent. 428 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:45,320 And it's like, not an irrational fear, not an irrational fear, 429 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:48,440 but like a not based in statistics fear. 430 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:49,000 That's right. 431 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:49,320 Yeah, yeah. 432 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:50,080 It's so ingrained. 433 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:54,040 I mean, I think what you're speaking about is a social media 434 00:22:54,040 --> 00:23:00,400 trend going around right now on, would you rather face a bear 435 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:03,600 in the woods or a man you don't know in the woods? 436 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:07,200 And most women, when asked, would choose the bear 437 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:15,600 over the man because this idea of violence and threat 438 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:18,760 and personal safety, it runs deep. 439 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:23,720 And I don't pretend to know from the perspective of a woman. 440 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:25,000 I don't pretend to know. 441 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:29,920 I mean, my privilege, as you and I often talk about, 442 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:32,680 identifying as a man, being born a man, 443 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,640 I don't know what that feels like. 444 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:39,040 Yet there I was in that parking lot in Portland, 445 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:41,200 shrinking from view and locking my door 446 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:44,080 when I perceived a threat. 447 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:49,640 But the stereotype, the stigma runs so deep. 448 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:53,800 And I loved how you said, we've been trained to believe this. 449 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:58,640 Everything that I grew up with in the media 450 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:02,880 and even walking around as an adolescent 451 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:05,800 in the streets of my hometown, I was 452 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:11,040 trained to perceive danger in something I didn't understand. 453 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:15,320 Well, which is, I think, evolutionarily viable. 454 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:19,680 If you don't know what's happening, leave immediately. 455 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,320 And my parents have trained me to do that. 456 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,600 In order to avoid risk, don't be around anything 457 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:28,840 that you don't know about, which makes sense 458 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:33,760 but also can create a ton of problems and societal rifts. 459 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:38,840 And that fear of the unknown has resulted 460 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:44,880 in the degree of stigma that we have around mental illness. 461 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:45,960 Yeah, I agree. 462 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:46,880 I agree. 463 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,480 So I'm curious, Soren, with you and your friends, 464 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:53,280 do you have any, for folks that might be watching or listening 465 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:56,600 who are thinking to themselves, well, this 466 00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:58,160 is easier said than done. 467 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:02,280 How am I supposed to even start normalizing, 468 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:04,640 talking about health and wellness? 469 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:06,880 Do you have any strategies that have worked really well 470 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:10,120 for your friend groups on how you approach the checking in 471 00:25:10,120 --> 00:25:12,320 or the being checked in with? 472 00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:13,200 Yeah. 473 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,640 So with a lot of my male friends, 474 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:20,800 I feel like they are only comfortable having 475 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,680 deep conversations like that and addressing that issue 476 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,480 in a very specific context. 477 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:30,280 For our friend group, it's around the fire. 478 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:35,000 Which I think men have been doing for decades. 479 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:36,360 Yeah, thousands of years. 480 00:25:36,360 --> 00:25:37,240 Go to the man cave. 481 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:39,600 That's where you talk about these things. 482 00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:44,440 And I think it's been a general progression of trying a little, 483 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:49,320 trying to start that dialogue just naturally in contexts 484 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:51,920 that are very low key, very comfortable. 485 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:56,080 And then eventually, you can introduce that topic 486 00:25:56,080 --> 00:26:00,520 in less tailored situations. 487 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:04,040 And you can just check in with people through texting. 488 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,640 Or actually, a really great example 489 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:14,000 that I think was fantastic was one of my friend's girlfriend. 490 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:15,360 Not one of his girlfriends. 491 00:26:15,360 --> 00:26:18,800 My friend's girlfriend. 492 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,200 I think a month ago or so was talking to me 493 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,040 and very concerned for my friend. 494 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,360 So I just started a random conversation. 495 00:26:26,360 --> 00:26:30,520 It wasn't about anything to do with mental illness. 496 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:35,000 And then my friend just started talking 497 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,000 about how their day was and what they've been doing. 498 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:39,760 And then they talked about some of the stress 499 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:40,680 with their homework. 500 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,360 And then that's an opportunity to seize on. 501 00:26:43,360 --> 00:26:47,840 You can say, oh, what has your emotional experience been of late? 502 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:49,920 And then you can share your experience, 503 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:53,720 which I think showing vulnerability yourself 504 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:56,920 is so important to attempt to get somebody to open up. 505 00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:00,080 It needs to be a mutual dialogue. 506 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,080 You're not pulling information out of them. 507 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:04,440 You're sharing information with the group. 508 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:08,080 Yeah, I think it's our old pal Mr. Rogers who 509 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:12,160 talks about how anything mentionable is manageable. 510 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,200 And the ability to put something in words, 511 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:19,720 as scary as it initially might be, if you can talk about it, 512 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:20,880 you can manage it better. 513 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:21,840 You can deal with it. 514 00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:25,320 Yeah, so what I hear you saying is 515 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:29,720 you're building new habits, creating new muscles 516 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:33,360 to then hopefully start working out and let muscle memory 517 00:27:33,360 --> 00:27:34,840 eventually take over. 518 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:37,320 You're normalizing and you're modeling 519 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,000 that I can talk about this stuff with you. 520 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:41,040 I trust you. 521 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:41,960 Yeah, yeah. 522 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:43,720 I know you're not judging me. 523 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,840 I know that you're not going to break my confidence 524 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:48,960 and tell other people what I've told you. 525 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,440 So you're modeling that you are a safe person 526 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:57,280 and you are just creating space to let that person come to you. 527 00:27:57,280 --> 00:27:59,640 You're opening the door and then walking away 528 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:01,880 from the door and allowing them to walk through 529 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:02,440 when they're ready. 530 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:03,240 I totally agree. 531 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:06,720 For me, it's just about expanding the safe space, 532 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:10,520 creating a regular dialogue. 533 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:13,880 Rather than it being conversations 534 00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:16,760 in isolated events, you need to see 535 00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:19,280 emotions and the progression of them holistically. 536 00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:21,480 And you need to address them holistically. 537 00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:24,000 That is so important because if we're only 538 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,920 checking in with our loved ones and friends 539 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,720 during the difficult times, then we might be sending 540 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:34,000 the unintended message that I only 541 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,240 care when you're at your worst. 542 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,880 I think that's really profound. 543 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:44,720 And we, I think, also have to normalize because in some, 544 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:48,040 I have some memories as well where 545 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:51,320 if I was too excited about something, 546 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:53,680 I'm also crossing that gender role 547 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:57,000 that I'm supposed to be stoic. 548 00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,960 And so the extremes on either end of stoicism, 549 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:08,120 if I'm too low or too high, I've veered out of my lane 550 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:12,240 as what the male is supposed to be like. 551 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:16,000 Well, I am super thankful to the environment 552 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:18,360 that my parents have provided because I 553 00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:22,000 am a very expressive, dare I say extreme, person. 554 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:26,320 And when I'm having an emotional experience, it's a lot. 555 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:30,640 And I am very excitable and vibrant and joyous. 556 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,560 And I think if I was raised in an environment in which 557 00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:36,800 the traditional male gender role was emphasized heavily, 558 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:40,520 I would be, to some extent, broken. 559 00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:44,360 Because I would be crashing against the walls of a box 560 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:46,160 that I simply can't fit into. 561 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,880 And I'm breaking my bones on each hit. 562 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:52,360 And I think some men feel pent up. 563 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:54,160 Yeah, that's a powerful image. 564 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:58,600 Well, and here's what I also want to say, 565 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:02,240 is that you are providing some really valuable insight 566 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,880 into how young people can normalize and check in 567 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:10,680 and make create safe spaces to talk about this. 568 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:15,160 And it's also important to help coach families 569 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:18,280 to also create that similar space. 570 00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:25,040 Any emotion my child is experiencing is valid. 571 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:26,360 It's OK. 572 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:27,880 We can talk about it. 573 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:31,000 And I think so much of our language, 574 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:35,440 whether we're even aware of it or not, calm down. 575 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:37,680 You're too hyper. 576 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,400 You're too, oh, you're a lot right now. 577 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:42,160 I think about those kind of comments 578 00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:45,560 that I've heard families or parents, caregivers say, 579 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,000 about kids, they're a lot. 580 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:50,320 And I want to be like, what does that mean? 581 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:51,880 Well, they feel everything. 582 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:53,280 And I'm like, great. 583 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:54,560 Like, that's a strength. 584 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:56,960 I see that as a powerful strength. 585 00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:03,040 I see that as what we know is that a young person's ability 586 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:08,480 to express and identify feeling is linked to resiliency, 587 00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:11,400 is linked to good health outcomes. 588 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:13,960 That if I know what it is I'm feeling 589 00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:17,120 and I have some insight into what it is and why it is, 590 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,800 and I can talk about it, then when 591 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:23,200 times are a little tougher, that skill set 592 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:25,920 can manifest there as well. 593 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,720 It needs to be like a constant dialogue. 594 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:31,480 To destigmatize, you have to normalize. 595 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:33,920 Oh, that's our tagline for this episode. 596 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,000 Yeah, absolutely. 597 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,120 Absolutely. 598 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:42,960 But I'm so excited for the future 599 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:45,400 with looking at the conversations 600 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,880 that I'm seeing happen around me. 601 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:50,440 Obviously, we're all afraid. 602 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:52,240 And there is a mental health crisis. 603 00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:55,480 But I think it's really important to remember 604 00:31:55,480 --> 00:32:00,920 that with each low point, there is an up. 605 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:03,200 And through these negative experiences 606 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:05,320 and through this collective trauma 607 00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:10,200 that the mental health crisis is putting our youth through, 608 00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:12,880 we can yield emotional maturity. 609 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:15,360 We can yield better coping strategies 610 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:17,160 as a generation. 611 00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:21,800 And we can inform older people to create 612 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:25,000 a more cohesive social unit that supports each other. 613 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:28,080 Yeah, well, what we've talked about in this podcast before 614 00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:32,360 is this idea that our best days are still ahead, 615 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:36,080 that there's always better days ahead, 616 00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:38,480 that we are all works in progress. 617 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:42,840 And the other piece that I hear you talking about, 618 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:46,800 which I think is just really kind of magical, 619 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:51,640 is shared experiences build community. 620 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:54,120 And community builds resiliency. 621 00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:56,600 And so the more we can connect with one another 622 00:32:56,600 --> 00:33:00,200 on the shared universal experiences, where 623 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:02,840 it's OK to talk about the rough stuff as much 624 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:06,720 as the positive stuff, we can build community. 625 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:08,760 In community, there is strength. 626 00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:13,760 And in strength, there's resilience to those challenges 627 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:15,200 the next time they come around. 628 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:15,920 Yeah, yeah. 629 00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:17,200 We're all in this together. 630 00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:17,960 Yeah. 631 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:18,640 Yeah. 632 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:21,200 Well, Soren, this has been another fascinating conversation 633 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:21,680 with you. 634 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:26,760 I'm really excited to see where the second half of our season 635 00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:28,480 goes. 636 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:32,400 Well, I think that this has been fantabulous. 637 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:33,880 Episode 6 out? 638 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:34,880 I think so. 639 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:37,120 I think episode 6. 640 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:40,600 So as we launch into the second half of season 1 of the Inspired 641 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:42,960 Insights podcast, we want to thank you so much for sticking 642 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:44,440 with us and listening to us. 643 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:45,560 I'm Chris McAllen. 644 00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:46,880 I'm Soren Peterson. 645 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:47,840 We'll see you next time. 646 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:50,400 Have a marvelous day. 647 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:52,160 The Inspired Insights podcast has 648 00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,720 been brought to you by Inspired Consulting Group, LLC. 649 00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,320 Edited and produced by Amanda Seidel. 650 00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:00,560 Music by Derek Herter. 651 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:08,720 Copyright 2024, all rights reserved.