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Soren! Hi! Welcome back! I'm so glad that we got into this because I think it's so

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interesting how closely the educational system of a culture, country, or a

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community, how closely it mirrors and parallels the cultural model of that

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community. Right? So I'm glad we're talking about this as well and I, you are

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very well traveled and what folks might not know about you is you and your

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family have traveled internationally from a very early age and you've been

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to some amazing countries. You're heading in a little bit of time to some more

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amazing countries and we'll talk more about that in a little bit too, but you

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do, you have a perspective of when Soren travels, Soren's traveling through one of

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the lenses of a 17 year old high school student and so what you might be

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picking up on in the countries that you go to, like when I travel it's, it's, let's

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talk about the food, let's talk about the culture, let's talk about what people do

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for fun or for recreation in those countries. That's a lens you're looking

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through as well and you can't help but not look at these countries through the

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lens of a student. So what's some of the takeaways that you've learned as you've

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traveled this globe? Um, broadly looking at education or just overall. Let's start

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with the education piece. Um, so I am looking at exclusively schools abroad

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right now. I really don't want to go to college in the United States. So I'm

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looking at like the UK area, primarily because they speak English, but it will

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still be a different cultural experience and it'll get me closer to a lot of the

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places that I want to visit more often, those being mainland Europe. But like

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when we were in Portugal most recently, we visited a college there and it was

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kind of shocking how similar it was to the United States educational facilities.

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Yeah, in what ways? Um, just the atmosphere of the college. Like it reminded me really

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strongly of some of the colleges that we visited in Florida, like University of

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Florida and Gainesville. I don't know if I said the right, is it, I think it's

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University of Florida. Um, is paralleled that for me a lot because it's a very

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like in Portugal, we visited the University of Lisbon and it was a really

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open atmosphere. Uh, there were kids everywhere. Uh, obviously it was a

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gorgeous day out. Um, and even like the architectural style mirrored it really

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closely for me. Yeah. Um, did you have the opportunity to interact with any of

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the students there as part of your tour? Uh, we didn't go on proper tour. We were

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just walking around the campus. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I actually, I, I think I get

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like more anxious around kids that are closer to my age. So I was having like a

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little panic moment. Yeah. Yeah. I, cause I think part of it is like, I think

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it's my fear of change wrapped up in like just being thrown into a new

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environment. But I had to take a second when I got there to just like calm down

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and acclimate because, um, I don't know, I just get very flustered.

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Well, and that, uh, you don't get much more real than being in person at the

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University of Lisbon, thousands of miles away from life and everything, you know,

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it's a year away. Like, that's real. That's coming. And I know in talking with

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your parents about preparing you for this coming trip to the UK and, and to

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places you've toured and been to before, it's making it really real for them too.

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Yeah, it's, it's like, it's scary, but also really exciting. Like I have lived

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my entire life quite sheltered, like in small town Maine. Yeah. Uh, and even

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though I've been exposed culturally, uh, and like in reality a lot more than the

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vast majority of people that come from my area, which is a result of my

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privilege, of course. Um, I still like, when I'm visiting these countries, it's

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through the lens of privilege, right? We stay at nice hotels. I feel like to some

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extent we try to get the real experience when we go to places. Uh, and like

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actually China, I feel like we got a fairly real experience simply because

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they don't have that large of a tourist, uh, tourism industry. So you can like

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stay isolated in a bubble. This was like, we were just in Beijing.

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Yeah. I think that's something that your parents are really intentional about

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though. But there, when you all travel as a family, it's about, um, it's about

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traveling as a family and experiencing things together. And you're not

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necessarily looking for five star dining. You want to eat where the people of that

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country eat and you want to be in the places and, uh, that those folks travel

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to. And you love the architecture and the history and the, the, um, culture of

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the places you're visiting. I think other family members, your brother

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appreciates that, but it's also maybe looking for some other things. Like I

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know it was really important for both your dad and your brother to find a

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swimming pool, keep that exercise and keep that sport stuff going. And that

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was an opportunity for you and your mom to go sightseeing.

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Yeah. We like, I love, love, love museums. Yeah. And I love walking the streets

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and just examining the buildings. I really, when I'm in a foreign country, I

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love people watching because examining the mannerisms of other cultures is so

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interesting. And like it serves to denormalize, um, the like American

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cultural model, which I've grown up in as like the standard basic, right? Like

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experiencing these other things sort of takes me off of the pedestal that comes

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as a result of immersion in American culture and allows me to, uh, sort of

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value other cultures to the same extent. Like I see it a lot with, um, other

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people that live in our country. Um,

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from, from other, like who are staying here or students here from other

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countries?

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Uh, no, no, no. Like, uh, like American citizens. Yeah. Yeah. That we value our

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culture, uh, over the cultures of others. Of course we do. When it's like, it's

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arbitrary, right? There's nothing that makes us distinctly good. Uh, I think

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that we have a lot of assets that are super important and valuable. Um, and we

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place emphasis on some really important things, but also like looking down on

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other cultures simply because they aren't close to ours seems so foolish.

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And it's like, it's arbitrary judgment, right?

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Yeah. Yeah.

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As both a social worker and as a diversity, equity, inclusion, and

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belonging consultant in some of my professional worlds, that, that, uh,

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American centric self-centered view of our country and our ways and our world

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is all about bias.

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I totally agree. And like, that's such a strong tendency of humans. Like we have

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evolved for tribalism, which is what makes us so, um, I think vulnerable to

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like nationalism and mob mentality, right? Which tribalism is really important

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because it allows for us to foster a community and create an identity for

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ourselves, but also you last podcast were like harped on balance so much.

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And it is a balance.

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Yeah.

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Well, I don't, I don't mean to make you seem like, yeah.

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Yeah.

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Um, but balance is really important.

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Like any, uh, pride needs to be taken in small doses, right?

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Right.

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Right. I think we need to, I try to, at least every time I have an experience,

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attempt to step back from myself, step back from the person that I've just

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interacted with and attempt to like analyze and dissect, uh, appreciate

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what's just happened.

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Yeah.

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I think that for me is balance and you have this unique ability to do that.

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I respect that in you.

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I, for me, the balance is you can hold multiple things at the same time.

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You can have pride in your town, your community, your state, your country,

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and appreciate somebody else's culture and somebody else's experience.

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What they're not mutually exclusive.

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One doesn't take away from the other balance for me is the ability to hold

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two things at the same time that on the surface might appear contradictory.

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Well, I totally agree.

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Like the, the nature of humanity is contradiction, right?

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Right.

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Like every human is a ball of conflicting emotions, thoughts,

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ideologies, experiences, and to be human is to bring all of these things

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together into a unified individual.

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Uh, right.

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Like, uh, Hegel, actually a German philosopher from the 19th century, uh,

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was really, uh, engaged with this idea of conflict and, uh, contradiction,

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um, and hypocrisy, uh, in humanity.

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But I think hypocrisy puts a very, um, negative around, um, just exactly

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around, um, just existing and ebbing and flowing.

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Like, I think me as an individual, I, I've moved away from this a lot,

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but like, I used to create an idea of myself and then need to adhere to that.

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Yeah.

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Right.

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When I feel like I can adhere to whatever I want to, I don't even

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have to adhere to anything.

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I'm just an individual and I choose based on what I feel is best in the moment

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rather than, uh, what I feel most, uh, closely coincides with an idea that I have.

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Right.

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Right.

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Something you're interested in or passionate about.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Which kind of brings me back to this, um, this conversation about traveling

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and experiencing other cultures and other countries and, and the appreciation

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that you bring to the difference.

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And as you mentioned about the university in Portugal, the similarities

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and being, being able to kind of be in awe of, wow, there's a lot like

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what I'm used to back home.

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I totally agree.

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Like, um, we oftentimes when like looking at other cultures or communities,

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emphasize the differences, but I think it's so important to remember every

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human is ultimately driven by pretty similar things.

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Right.

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We all want to be accepted.

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We all want to be loved.

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We all want to be like happy and healthy.

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We all want the people that we love to succeed.

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Right.

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Uh, so like empathy is really important in attempting to reinforce that idea.

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Like, um, even in China, which we see as like something so foreign, I found

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myself really enjoying a lot of the locals there, like people would come

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up and take pictures with me and my brother, cause we were white and a lot

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of the tourists in Beijing had never seen white people.

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Oh, interesting.

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Uh, but like every interaction I had there was just really pleasant and enjoyable.

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And we like, we vilify entire, uh, countries and their citizens just because

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they have a, an authoritarian government.

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That's different.

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Yeah.

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That's different from ours.

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Um, and it's important to like, we cannot attach people as individuals to the

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organizations which they live under or live within, right?

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Right.

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Yeah.

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Guilty by association isn't always the best way to look at the world.

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Yeah.

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And I, it can create a really like jaded perspective, like my, uh, mother,

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which I understand like out of rage and feeling productive of me has a tendency

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to like vilify individuals with ideas, different members, and obviously

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a lot of these ideas are hateful and really unpleasant, but they're

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motivated by ignorance and like, I actually really enjoy engaging, um,

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with people that I don't necessarily agree with.

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Uh, and I have not been exposed to, like, I recently got really

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interested in theology and I've been going to, um, the Bible study club

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before school, uh, at our school.

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And I love the kids that run it and it's really fun and really interesting.

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And the kids that run it have gotten hate for like their endorsement of

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Christianity because they are devout Christian.

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These people are really good people and I love being around them.

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Right.

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And they're motivated by like kindness, compassion, and empathy.

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Well, again, guilty by association is a, is a unfortunate lens to view the world.

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Today's episode is brought to you by the inspired allies,

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certificate program for educators looking to better partner with

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LGBT plus youth and their families.

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Like people who are in an advantaged position don't realize that they're

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really experiencing things in a different or perhaps better way than

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than those who aren't, uh, privileged because that's just what they've

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lived their life like.

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Like I have lived in a very well off, not very well off.

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I would say fairly well off family in a super sheltered world in a rural,

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very wealthy, uh, country.

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Right.

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Uh, so although I try to have empathy, I don't have the experience base to

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really actually engage with a lot of, uh, people, um, and empathize with

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their experience truly, because you, I think you need some shared amount of

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experience in order to engage with empathy.

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And all I can have is sympathy and try to cultivate an understanding for that.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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You know, I'm going to, uh, I'm going to challenge you a little bit because I, I

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don't think you have to have world according to Chris.

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I don't think you have to have experience with that person's, um, what

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they are going through for you to have empathy.

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I think you is knowing you, like I do, you can appreciate the perspective

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and anticipate and learn from that person, what they might be experiencing

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or what they may have felt when they were going through that tough time

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without having necessarily having gone through that time.

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Like if you had a friend, I don't even know if this is true or not, but you

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might have a friend who, um, their house burns down and they've lost everything.

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Yeah.

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That's never happened to you, but you could appreciate what that might

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feel like to lose everything.

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It won't be exact, but you, you have the ability to access what that might feel

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like to be able to offer support, love, friendship, compassion, and empathy.

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Well, sorry, let me rephrase what I said, because I totally agree with you.

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Empathy is an emotional experience and emotions are universal.

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Thus making empathy universal by the transit of property.

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Sorry.

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Um, more what I was attempting to say, uh, which I don't know if you would agree with.

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I think that it's difficult.

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Like it's hard to talk with somebody as though you're like equals without making

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them feel un-listened to when you're coming from a place of privilege.

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Like I was more saying when you're engaging with people who have had

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different life experiences from you.

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Uh, it's important to listen rather than talk over saying, right.

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It's I, I've just, I've had such a similar experience to you, right?

235
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Right.

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Like you don't want to like, it's not about this comparison of, oh, my house

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is burned down too, let me tell you about it while you're in this place of

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pain and vulnerability.

239
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Well, I think that like, I see this a lot with younger high school kids.

240
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And I did this too, like there's a lot of like almost trauma competition, right?

241
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Like kids when they're in a bad position, want to be in like the worst position.

242
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I did this a lot.

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Like I'd see my friends doing horribly and doing like really awful things.

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And I'd be like, Oh yeah, I can do much better than that.

245
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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Like, and that was a big thing with like self harm, especially in online

249
00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:45,440
communities that I was a part of.

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00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:52,600
It was so competitive, which like, I think parents and a lot of people who haven't

251
00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:57,680
been engaged in that a lot can't even fathom because you're like competing

252
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to destroy yourself.

253
00:18:58,720 --> 00:18:58,880
Yeah.

254
00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:02,800
You and I have talked about this before several occasions that I think this

255
00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:05,600
is an element of youth culture.

256
00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:13,080
And unfortunately you've shared with me that from your perspective, this

257
00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:15,720
is also an element of queer youth culture.

258
00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:22,440
That, and you know, it's things that we've already referenced in our time

259
00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:29,000
together here in the studio, this, this whole concept of, I don't see myself

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00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:33,560
as worthy, I don't see myself as deserving of a future.

261
00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:40,760
And so I'm going to treat my body like shit in every sense of the word inside

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00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:45,800
and out, because I don't even see myself being here 10 years from now.

263
00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:48,200
We talked about that last time a little bit.

264
00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:48,600
Yeah.

265
00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:49,000
Yeah.

266
00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:53,080
Like, I don't know if I mentioned like the homework example last time.

267
00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:53,640
I think I did.

268
00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:54,120
I think you did.

269
00:19:54,120 --> 00:19:54,520
Yeah.

270
00:19:54,520 --> 00:20:01,000
Um, where it's like just a reckless abandon for one's own safety or health,

271
00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:06,200
because like, why would I protect something like I'm not going to be

272
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:07,400
able to cash in in the future?

273
00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:07,880
That's right.

274
00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:08,120
Yeah.

275
00:20:08,120 --> 00:20:08,280
Yeah.

276
00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:09,800
And it's like, it's nihilism.

277
00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:16,200
Like kids nowadays, and I see this a lot from engaging in like modern media

278
00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:18,760
produced by a lot of people in my generation.

279
00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:21,480
Like we're not going to be able to buy a house.

280
00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:25,400
So why even try to get on a stable financial floating?

281
00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:25,880
Yeah.

282
00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:29,400
You know, what I think is so fascinating about that too, Sorin, is that, you

283
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:32,920
know, you're talking about this from the, from a high school student perspective.

284
00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:39,320
As somebody who's again, looking down the gun at 50 years old, I think

285
00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:43,000
about retirement, like the other side of the age continuum.

286
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:48,360
And many of the queer adults that I've worked with or know from a more

287
00:20:48,360 --> 00:20:54,200
personal dynamic, we talk about this a lot that even as an adult, when a,

288
00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:59,800
when a queer person doesn't see themselves as worthy or deserving of a

289
00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:06,680
future, the idea of a retirement account, the idea of a bank account, the idea of

290
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:11,800
purchasing property or investing in something doesn't even factor in,

291
00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:16,680
because I'm not going to be around to cash in on it literally or metaphorically.

292
00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:17,400
So why bother?

293
00:21:18,360 --> 00:21:18,600
Yeah.

294
00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:24,280
I think that like, obviously it's not going to be a Scrooge and like hoard

295
00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:27,000
things for a future date that's never going to come.

296
00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:31,080
And it's really important to live your life with some reckless abandon.

297
00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:34,760
I think that I'm kind of a pro at living my life with reckless abandon.

298
00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:34,840
Yeah.

299
00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:35,640
You've got that down.

300
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:36,920
Yeah.

301
00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:39,240
I'm working on it, but yeah, yeah.

302
00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:44,200
Obviously it's important to have fun now, but also it's important to have fun in

303
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:44,920
the future.

304
00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:45,320
Balance.

305
00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:45,800
Yeah.

306
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:46,680
Maintain that.

307
00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:54,360
But it comes back to this, for me, this idea that self-worth, the ability to

308
00:21:54,360 --> 00:22:01,560
project forward, the ability to see one as worthy enough as deserving of that

309
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:02,360
future.

310
00:22:02,360 --> 00:22:08,760
So my motivation of putting the delay gratification of putting money in a

311
00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:16,120
retirement account every two weeks for decades, when I may not see myself as

312
00:22:16,120 --> 00:22:19,400
living that long anyway, so why bother?

313
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:21,720
Yeah.

314
00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:28,600
And like, I have several friends that just like don't engage with school

315
00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:32,840
because why?

316
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:42,520
Performing well in high school, they see as so unnecessary and so unimportant.

317
00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:43,080
Yeah.

318
00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:47,960
So they're just fine with cruising by with a D. As long as they get that

319
00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:50,360
diploma, then their life starts.

320
00:22:50,360 --> 00:22:51,160
It's an end to them.

321
00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:51,800
Yeah, yeah.

322
00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:52,440
It means whatever.

323
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:53,160
Or it means whatever.

324
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:53,720
Yeah, yeah.

325
00:22:53,720 --> 00:23:03,000
When like, I think, and this is like sort of sham philosophy in my eyes,

326
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:06,360
like life is a journey.

327
00:23:06,360 --> 00:23:11,880
And if you don't savor the journey instead just valuing the endpoint, once

328
00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:15,640
you get to the endpoint, it's not going to feel pleasurable.

329
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:16,280
Yeah, it's about the process.

330
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:17,400
It's not going to be an enjoyable experience.

331
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:17,720
Yeah.

332
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:22,920
And when you and I were talking about this podcast for months now, that was

333
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:27,160
one of sort of the underlying themes we wanted to explore is that as humans,

334
00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:29,800
our best days are still ahead.

335
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:31,960
We are all works in progress.

336
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:38,200
We have yet to even know our true final potential because that might be

337
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:40,040
light years away from us today.

338
00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:46,760
So that balance of I need to be thinking a little future focused while also

339
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:50,200
making sure I'm living a little bit of my life for the present day is an

340
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:52,840
important part of the human experience.

341
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:57,800
Today's episode has been brought to you by the Inspired Allies Certificate

342
00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:03,640
Program, modules designed to inspire confidence and confidence in better

343
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,120
partnering with LGBTQ plus communities.

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00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:19,560
That these are concepts that whether in 1987 or 2024, this is the stuff that

345
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:20,760
people are managing.

346
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:27,480
Yeah, like I think a lot of what we're getting, it's human experience and

347
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:32,600
human experience is like we said with the little empathy spiel, it's universal.

348
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:33,100
Right.

349
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:40,600
And like all of these things are consistent themes in the lives of

350
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:42,280
everyday individuals.

351
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:49,160
And recognizing these allows for a more holistic, I guess, experience of

352
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:53,640
humanity and engagement with our own emotions.

353
00:24:53,640 --> 00:25:01,240
When you when one is open to going there, like you and I know a lot of folks

354
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:07,640
who regardless of political ideology or that, you know, those dynamics, there

355
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:13,960
are folks who are either unable or unwilling in this very moment to engage

356
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:17,720
in empathy response with somebody who has a life that's different from them.

357
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:22,200
And we could, you know, as a clinical social worker, I can give a whole lot

358
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:26,600
of reasons, some diagnostics, some not of why that person might struggle with

359
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:32,440
their ability to engage in empathy in that moment, regardless of why it's real.

360
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:37,160
And so part of what you and I hope to achieve in these conversations and our

361
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:41,480
future conversations is maybe like knocking on that door a little bit more

362
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:46,360
to help to help make some of this more accessible to people to have these

363
00:25:46,360 --> 00:25:51,080
conversations, to go actively seek out someone with an experience that is

364
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:52,520
different than yours.

365
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:57,320
However, you define that to learn to evolve and to grow as a human.

366
00:25:57,320 --> 00:25:58,280
I totally agree.

367
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:04,040
And what you were just saying just reminded me it's not always other people

368
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,160
that we need to get in touch with and empathize with.

369
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:14,200
It's ourselves like a huge, huge, huge asset for me with my recovery was

370
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:17,400
learning to engage with myself and empathize for myself again.

371
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:17,880
Yeah.

372
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:23,640
Because not only had I disconnected myself from the emotions of others or

373
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:29,640
attempted to, I spent so much time attempting to disconnect myself from my

374
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:31,400
own emotions and my own experiences.

375
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:36,600
And I don't know if this is like unique to a more trauma related mental illness,

376
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:43,080
but like I needed to relearn to empathize for myself or with myself

377
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,640
because I vilified myself.

378
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:52,280
I refuse to engage with the past experiences which were tearing me apart

379
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:59,400
inside because even like I just wouldn't let myself try to understand the

380
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:04,120
emotions that I was having, try to like engage with the root cause of these

381
00:27:04,120 --> 00:27:04,920
things.

382
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:05,400
That's right.

383
00:27:06,360 --> 00:27:10,440
And like it's really important to try to understand other people, but

384
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,800
something that can help us try to understand other people is getting a

385
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:15,240
better understanding of ourselves.

386
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:15,560
Yeah.

387
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,680
And making that time to do that.

388
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,640
Like it doesn't come natural to most.

389
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:28,360
And you know, in your own experience, what you've talked about is that it

390
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:35,800
unfortunately took some tough times, some horrible stuff to bring you to

391
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:37,240
where you're at today.

392
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:45,560
I have to just ask the question, like how do we inspire young people to go

393
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:49,560
there with themselves in the absence of tough stuff having to happen?

394
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:55,560
I don't know if I'm smart enough to answer that question.

395
00:27:55,560 --> 00:28:05,080
Well, I like that's such a difficult and uniquely individual thing.

396
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:05,400
Right.

397
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:13,320
Like for me, it took a shock to get me to even like try to start recovering.

398
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:13,960
Yeah.

399
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,280
Try to start engaging in these things.

400
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:26,040
And it was a very, like, it was very sudden for me with disclosing the like

401
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:32,840
immediate change that I felt with myself and those around me and the decisions

402
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:35,640
that I was trying to engage with.

403
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,120
But like, it was a shock.

404
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:46,200
Like I had attempted to end my own life multiple times in like violent ways on

405
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:46,920
several occasions.

406
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:53,320
To avoid the process, the very process of knowing oneself and exploring

407
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:57,880
oneself, which is like the ultimate definition of a defense mechanism.

408
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:02,440
Today's episode has been brought to you by the Inspired Allies Certificate Program,

409
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:08,440
modules designed to inspire confidence and competence in better partnering with

410
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:10,200
LGBTQ plus communities.

411
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:12,120
Fascinates.

412
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:12,440
Yeah.

413
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:14,600
And I am, it's so complex.

414
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:23,720
And my like primary desire in my lifetime is to attempt to unravel the complexity

415
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:29,000
that is human experience from a like standardized metric.

416
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:29,240
Yeah.

417
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:35,880
Which obviously I, as this is something that I have a tendency to do, I really

418
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:39,320
want to turn things into black and white so that I can work with them logically.

419
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:40,040
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

420
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:44,680
But like humanity is alias and just full of gray.

421
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:44,920
Yeah.

422
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:46,680
Which is the part about it I love.

423
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:47,560
Yeah, yeah.

424
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:53,480
And I try to like, I think, I try to like, I try to like, I try to like,

425
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:57,320
attempt to create black and white so that I can better understand it,

426
00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:59,320
which is a contrast between us.

427
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:01,160
And I think aids in our discussions.

428
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:02,200
Yeah, it does.

429
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:10,680
And what's fascinating to me about that statement is you are the most gray individual I know.

430
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:14,600
Like you live, your life is defined.

431
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:22,360
Who you are in every sense of the word is the middle, you know, not this refusal of

432
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:23,880
a binary system, right?

433
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:24,440
Yeah.

434
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:30,760
And so it's fascinating to me that your tendency or preference is to try to

435
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:36,360
compartmentalize something into either this or that so you can analyze and study it when

436
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:40,120
that is the antithesis of who you are at your core.

437
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:47,320
Well, I think it's interesting you say that because I think that the binaries that our

438
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:54,280
current culture and society emphasizes aren't binaries, they're arbitrary boxes put over

439
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:56,440
gray splotches.

440
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:57,000
Yeah, okay.

441
00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:06,520
Right. So I, although I do strongly reject the like standardized model that our society

442
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:13,640
uses to attempt to compartmentalize things and put them into black and white,

443
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:18,440
I think that that system is arbitrary and I try to find my own black and white.

444
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:19,560
Oh, I see.

445
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:21,160
So I like...

446
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,480
It's your definition of the binary.

447
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:29,800
Today's episode has been brought to you by the Inspired Ally Certificate Program for Educators

448
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:33,720
looking to better partner with LGBT plus youth and their families.

449
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:42,520
I think we've...

450
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:44,120
It's quite an intense conversation.

451
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:48,360
Yeah, we've met some of the goals of this podcast.

452
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:48,680
Yeah.

453
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:54,920
Of sharing some truth from our perspectives, our experiences,

454
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:59,800
hopefully inspiring some conversations, hopefully giving folks some permission to have

455
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:03,720
some of these conversations as much with themselves as with other people.

456
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:07,480
And let's call it a day.

457
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:11,640
Totally. Thank you guys so much for listening.

458
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:18,600
I hope that this cultivates an audience and feel free to reach out to me or Chris.

459
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:19,000
100%.

460
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:24,680
Thank you, Sorin, for your willingness to have this conversation, for being who you are,

461
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:27,880
and for just sitting in this space with me.

462
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,200
Well, I wouldn't have a platform without you, so...

463
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:32,360
I'm happy for that.

464
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:34,040
I'm happy to give you that platform.

465
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:34,840
So thanks, all.

466
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:38,040
This has been Inspired Insights Podcast with Chris McLaughlin.

467
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:39,080
And Sorin Peterson.

468
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:40,360
And we'll see you next time.

469
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:41,160
Indeed. Bye.

470
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:46,520
The Inspired Insights Podcast has been brought to you by Inspired Consulting Group LLC.

471
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:49,800
Edited and produced by Amanda Seidel.

472
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:51,400
Music by Derek Herter.

473
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,360
Copyright 2024.

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00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:58,040
All rights reserved.