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Celebrating the power of possibility.

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I'm Harry Boston and I believe anything is possible.

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Welcome to Anything is Possible. I'm Hal Oren Hilton Hill.

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It is such an honor to be with you again.

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These are great stories about great people whose lives prove that anything is possible.

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I've been doing this show for quite a while and what I love is just sitting in front of great people and learning.

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I have never been let down when somebody says to me, you got to meet, dot, dot, dot.

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For the last several years, all sorts of people have been saying, have you met Harry Boston?

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I'm like, I think I've come a...you got to meet Harry Boston.

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This came to me over and over again and then we were at an event and our dear friend Stephen Davis said, wait a minute, you got to...

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here he is and connected us and so I am so happy to have you here today.

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Well, I feel exactly the same way. So it was so nice meeting you finally and it should be fun.

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Harry, where'd you grow up?

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I was born in Brooklyn, New York and then grew up largely on Long Island.

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What was that like?

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Interesting. It was interesting times.

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There was a real change from being in the city in nice part of Brooklyn but then going out to Long Island and being in a mostly white town

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and dealing with that growing up back in the 60s.

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Tell me about your parents and what took you to Long Island?

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Yeah, my father was a dentist. Mother was primarily a homemaker.

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So my father, let's see, he was born in South Carolina and got himself through Howard

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and so he graduated from Howard in the 40s and started his dental practice not long after.

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What did he run into?

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Well, probably everything.

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Moving into Long Island because that was a...

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Yeah, it probably was a lot more before that but moving to Long Island was an interesting place.

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It was a nice community. Of course, there was racism, there were petitions.

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We don't want these folks in this community and this and that.

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And I always tell people, light-skinned as I am, when you're the only one, you get to experience firsthand what it's like.

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So I've been there and experienced it.

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Is it kind of like light-skinned, black, if you're the only black, you're as dark as the time is going to be?

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You're as dark as they know. That's right.

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You're 100% right. Yeah, that's it.

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I didn't get to deal with it but it's interesting.

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It just made it part of an interesting journey.

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So you're growing up in Long Island. Where'd you go to school?

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A place called Siocet, little town on Long Island.

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What kind of student were you?

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Oh, I should tell you. I was a terrible student.

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I was, you know, he had my father who graduated top of the class at Howard University.

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He put himself, my grandfather was a dentist.

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Oh, really?

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He graduated from Mahari in 1909.

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So yeah, right, right.

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So I come from a line of distinguished, no, I was not distinguished.

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I was distinguishable, indistinguishable.

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But I had no idea what I wanted to do.

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So you hadn't imagined the possibility?

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No, not at all.

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Not at all.

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Matter of fact, I went to, when I interviewed for college, I talked to this dean and he said,

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what do you want to do? I said, I want to be a wildlife biologist.

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And he said, okay, he said, well, tell me, did you grow up in the country?

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I said, no, not really, no.

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Well, do you hike and camp a lot?

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No.

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Why do you want to be a wildlife biologist, son?

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I said, I like to watch those wild kingdom type shows.

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You got guys in khaki clothes and jeeps and nobody I knew

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wrote around the jeep and khaki clothes.

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And it was like, okay, I can do this.

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Now, it turns out I never took a class in wildlife biology.

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But it was that crazy.

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It's just my whole life has been sort of that crazy.

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You know, I was going to say, I've been a teacher and a scientist and a manager.

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I've been an executive with the government.

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I've been an executive with industry.

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Started my own company.

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And who would have guessed?

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You know, who would have guessed?

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It was no plan.

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It was just taking advantage of opportunities that were in front of me.

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You know, some kids know exactly what they want.

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I just, when I came to Forks and the Road, I took them.

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So what did you land on in college?

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Oh, good, good.

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I ended up getting interested in water chemistry.

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So I really became somewhat of a water chemist.

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What did you say, water chemist?

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I have a degree in plant physiology.

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But what I came down here in 1985 to the Oak Ridge National Laboratory

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as a biogeochemist, which no one knows what that means.

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We're studying acid rain.

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So as the acid rain falls on the ground, chemistry changes as it goes into streams and rivers.

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And that changes the impact it has on the environment.

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So I was studying the movement of materials through the environment

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and how aquatic systems affect water quality and affect the aquatic life.

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And then when the Department of Energy got interested in cleaning up the Oak Ridge site

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and chasing radio nuclides, I remember they asked me, you know,

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I gotta stop you right here.

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I gotta stop you right here.

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You know I'm gonna stop you right here.

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That's okay.

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Let me tell you why.

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Yeah.

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Your cover is blown.

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What is that?

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All shucks.

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I'm not the smart one in the family.

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No, I'm not.

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Dude, are you listening to yourself right now?

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No, it's just all by happenstance.

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All by happenstance.

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You don't become this kind of a brain by happenstance.

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But I'll let you continue the story.

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No, I am fortunate.

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Your water, your water, water chemist.

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Water chemist.

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You're at Oak Ridge.

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You're studying acid rain.

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I'll let you pick up.

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I just want you to know, my dear friend, your cover is blown.

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We're gonna challenge you before we're done.

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I have had the fortune of working with brilliant people.

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I'm a good integrator.

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I'm good at bringing things together and bringing people together and developing solutions.

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I think that's really been my talent.

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But to get back to our story, some were chasing materials through the environment, aluminum

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and things that affected aquatic life.

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And they asked me, could I help them find where the radionuclides were coming?

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The radioactive contamination.

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What is a radionuclide?

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Radioactive elements.

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When we talk about the radioactive materials having to do with like strontium 90 or CZ

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and 137, so they're elements that are not stable, elements that decay and give off materials,

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either give off radiation or particles that could concern us, that could be health problems.

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And that's why we're concerned with radioactive waste and radioactive contamination.

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And so they asked me, could I chase these things and find them in the environment and

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help them cut them off?

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I said, yes, easy to find them because they're radioactive.

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It's a lot easier to find them.

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So we did that for a while and ended up running the cleanup program for the Oak Ridge National

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Lab, which is different because I went down there as a basic scientist.

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I was doing basic research.

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Now all of a sudden I'm running cleanup and we're digging things up, building buildings,

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doing all sorts of interesting stuff.

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And the next thing I know, I'm building projects and running big sites for Lockheed Martin.

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And I ended up with the Department of Energy, which was exciting.

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And ran one of their biggest sites.

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What is that hand for?

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Possibility powered by Covenant Health, Home Federal, and the Knoxville News Sentinel.

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What is Hanford?

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Hanford is one of the original Manhattan Project sites.

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So everybody's seen the Oppenheimer movie and all now.

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So back in the 40s, as part of America's making of the atomic bomb, they founded three sites,

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Oak Ridge, Los Alamos, and Hanford.

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And Hanford had a bunch of reactors along the Columbia River that produced plutonium

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for the second bomb.

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Now all these years later, making all that plutonium for the weapons programs, there's

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a lot of nasty stuff out there.

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And I went out there with the goal of let's clean up this stuff so we can protect the

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Columbia River and protect the people out there.

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And it's a tremendous challenge.

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Take me into the world of that kind of engineering because if I were assigned that kind of project,

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I wouldn't know how to even begin to approach it.

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So you approach it humbly.

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It takes a whole family.

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It takes like a village of scientists and engineers to figure out these problems.

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How did we get here?

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What happened?

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What were the processes that created these materials?

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What are they and where are they?

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How do they move?

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And if we want to extract them or get them in a position where we can treat them, mobilize

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them, and dispose of them so they're safe, then what do you have to do?

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To do that.

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What did you have to do?

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Well, we brought a couple of great companies together, big engineering firms that understood

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how to build facilities that could have mobilized those materials.

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And that project is still going on and will go on for some time.

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But some of the near term things were just dealing with tanks that had so much radioactivity

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in them they were boiling.

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There was so much heat being given off the tanks for boiling.

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And so we had to dilute those so they wouldn't boil any longer.

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So plutonium is what you were dealing with though?

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Yes.

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Some plutonium, but a lot of the byproducts of plutonium production.

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The way they make plutonium, this is fascinating, is they take uranium and enrich it and run

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it through a nuclear reactor and actually turn it into plutonium.

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And as you do that, your uranium splitting and you're creating all sorts of strontium

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and cesium and cobalt, what they call fission products, and those are the highly radioactive

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things that give off all this heat.

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How do you neutralize those things?

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Well, the thing is to keep them from moving.

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And so there's different ways of using cement type material.

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And our mission was to get that waste out of those tanks and turn it into glass so it

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wouldn't go anywhere because glass lasts about as long as anything.

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So the idea was to build a big glass plant and turn these materials into glass so they

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could not move and could not get into a river.

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That is fascinating.

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So we were going to build the largest glass plant or radiochemical processing plant in

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the world.

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And it just took all sorts of scientists, engineers, folks working together to understand

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environmental folks, working with the communities so that the native tribes out there and the

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local communities, even in a tri-state area, people understood the problem at least as

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well as we did, understood what we were going to try to do about it and could be part of

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it.

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How long were you at Hanford?

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I was about six years.

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Six years, yeah.

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What came after?

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Okay, after that I went into industry because I thought, yeah, in the government, there's

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changes in administration and especially if you're in those leadership roles, they decide,

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well, we need something different.

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So I wasn't looking for a job when I found that one.

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So off I went on another fork and I said, I'm going to go work for some big firms like

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Jacobs and Shaw and run their DOE business, run all their projects with the Department

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of Energy DOE around the country.

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So I had offices all over the country and I'd fly around working on projects, hiring

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people, solving problems.

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And it was fun.

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It was different.

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It wasn't quite what I expected it to be.

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And so in 2007 I was working for Shaw and at the time Shaw, they bought part of Westinghouse.

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Everybody remembers Westinghouse Nuclear and they said, we're going to change what we do,

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Harry.

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So do you want to do job A or would you like a buyout to go do something else?

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Again, a fork in the road.

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I said, well, yeah, I'm going to try something else for a while.

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So I took a buyout and I thought I was going to go work for another big engineering firm.

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And instead I started consulting.

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I found people that were interested in things I could help with.

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Like, how do I build a strategic plan for this business?

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How do I learn how to work with government agencies?

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Or just better, how do I improve the performance of my business?

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And I started consulting and I said, hey, I can make a living doing this.

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I'm making good money and I don't have to get on a plane every Monday.

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And I had kids that were in middle school getting ready for high school.

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And they said, I can be here, I can be here for every soccer game and every football game.

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And so in 2007, I bought an old farmhouse on the Clinch River and Boston Government Services

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was born.

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So I was crazy.

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I had to be out of my mind to think I'm just going to at 50 or so years old, I'm going

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to start some business and take all the family money, put their college money aside, but

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everything else went in there and rolled the dice and we're going to grow a business and

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make a living doing this.

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And you did.

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It worked out.

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It worked out.

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See, it just goes to show it's better to be lucky than good, that's what they say.

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I'm amazed at, I don't know another way to frame it other than to call it faith, because

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if there's a fork in the road and you take it, you have to believe in adventure or you

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have to believe that, okay, let's see where this goes.

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There's not a sense of dread, but a sense of adventure.

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Little of both, some sense of dread, but a sense of, you know, this is an opportunity

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and I think I can do this.

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Who taught you to be that way?

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I wish I could tell you.

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I think I always attribute it to bad judgment, but just that idea that, trust me, I'm not

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super confident by any means.

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I don't mind climbing mountains or jumping out of planes or doing things.

252
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But would you explain, your life has been on paper, right?

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I understand this success is a very subjective thing.

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But on paper, as the old folks down south would say, you've done good.

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I've had a lot of fun.

256
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I've been lucky.

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I've had a lot of help.

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I've had good mentors and friends.

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But again, you find that you learn as much as you can.

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Work hard.

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Because I always tell people when they say, how did you get this down to that time?

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You can't be the fastest or the smartest or the prettiest, but you can outwork them.

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And if you get focused on what you want to do and work hard and get help from your friends

264
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and have some faith, more often than not, it's worked out well.

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Does success have a code?

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I think some aspects.

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I mean, there's a lot of position and luck.

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And some people are just smart.

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And they have brilliant ideas.

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And that carries them a long way.

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But most of us, it's mostly hard work.

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And it's a matter of thinking about what you're doing, looking around who else has been successful.

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What are the rules of engagement?

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What does it take to be successful in this environment?

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What am I going to do that's going to separate what we're doing from everybody else that

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allows us to add value?

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And for me, some of the code in building an engineering firm started with, I want to

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have the best people.

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Because I like to work with smart people.

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I've worked with really, really smart people.

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A lot of folks will tell you, if you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the

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wrong room.

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You've got to get in another room with us.

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And I've always felt like that, that there's brilliant people.

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And I want to work with them because it's exciting.

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But together, we can come up with solutions.

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We can solve problems.

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We can do things to make a difference.

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And then, with good people, we want to work on problems that are important.

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We want to work on things that are of national significance.

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So the company was involved with medical isotopes.

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The company's involved with next generation nuclear reactors.

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But we're involved with alternative energy, with wind, with solar, hydrogen, electric

294
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vehicles.

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We're involved with cybersecurity so we can protect our assets.

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And getting to learn about those things is a thrill.

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We've had ridiculously great opportunities.

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The Oak Ridge National Laboratory called us years ago and they said, we want a 3D print

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and nuclear reactor and we want you guys to help.

300
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It's great over cocktails to talk about.

301
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We did.

302
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And we did.

303
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And it was a thrill, though.

304
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And that's what it was about, having the kind of people and the focus to be, trusted to

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be involved in those kind of things.

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We got called by NASA about a year or so ago.

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And they're not calling Harry.

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They're calling our top people that they know.

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And they say, well, we're going back to the moon.

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We're planning on getting back to the moon.

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And they said, we're going to have a moon base.

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I'm loving it.

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Of course, I grew up in the 60s, so I'm thinking we're 20 years too late.

314
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But nonetheless, we're going to have a moon base.

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And they said, and we're not going to power that moon base with a coal plant.

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They're going to want a small module reactor.

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Can you help us with a small module reactor for the moon?

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And I'm like, my guys came in to tell me this because they're all excited.

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I'm like, oh, my word.

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I said, yeah, we're going to do it.

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And so we're getting engaged in those kind of things.

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But again, great people.

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Solve problems.

324
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Make a difference for clients on things that matter.

325
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:14,000
That's such fun.

326
00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:15,000
That is such fun.

327
00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:16,240
Your cover is so blown.

328
00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:17,240
It's fun.

329
00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:19,400
I would not play bitwisk with you at all.

330
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I'm not doing it because that's amazing.

331
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But I don't do anything.

332
00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:30,080
What you're saying is it's Wednesday.

333
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They ask you to help build a nuclear reactor on the moon.

334
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Right, right, right.

335
00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:36,400
I know.

336
00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:37,400
That's not just...

337
00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:38,400
That's not just...

338
00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:39,400
They didn't ask Harry.

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00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:42,120
They asked the smart people that work with Boston Company Services to do it.

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They don't want me anywhere near.

341
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I'm listening at you kind of speed through your story as if it's not that significant.

342
00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:52,280
It's amazing.

343
00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:53,280
Well, it goes fast.

344
00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:55,920
It's just you're just one foot in front of the other.

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00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:58,440
It's like crossing a river, rock to rock.

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Get that next rock before your foot comes down.

347
00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:02,440
That's what it has been like.

348
00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:03,960
Just grow the company, build it.

349
00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:05,120
Where do we want to go next?

350
00:18:05,120 --> 00:18:07,240
Why can't we do that?

351
00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:08,240
What's fun?

352
00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:09,240
Why can't we do that?

353
00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:10,480
I like that question.

354
00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:12,720
I love that question.

355
00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:16,440
But I think there's something else that when we were having lunch that really stood out

356
00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:27,080
to me is your passion to help small businesses and people see and see expanded possibility.

357
00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:28,080
Thank you.

358
00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:29,840
When did that come up for you?

359
00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:31,320
Where you wanted to give back?

360
00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:33,320
Well, I think both my parents were like that.

361
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They both grew up during the Depression.

362
00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:40,640
They were old and my father was born in 1915 and my mother in 1923.

363
00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:44,240
So we always had family in the house, like most people down here particularly.

364
00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:49,040
We always had family in the house, but it was just part of who we were.

365
00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:52,960
And as I've had opportunities, especially as the business has matured and I'm getting

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00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:58,160
to catch a little bit of breath, I'm getting ready for my second act, giving back and helping

367
00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:00,440
is such a big deal.

368
00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:01,920
So there's so many things we can do.

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00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:08,080
This region with the national laboratories and TVA and a great university and all the

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00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:13,520
good people here, there's no reason we can't have a high-tech regional economy like Silicon

371
00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:15,680
Valley or Research Triangle Park.

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00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:21,560
And when you do that, it's not just for scientists and PhDs and engineers.

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00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:22,880
Everybody's salary goes up.

374
00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:24,720
It rises the level for everybody.

375
00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:29,040
Because if you go to those places, they're taking kids that could work in McDonald's,

376
00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:32,800
and instead they're training them how to work in a clean room, in a clean lab, or how to

377
00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:34,560
do a bioassay.

378
00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:39,560
And after six months in community college, they can walk into a $60,000, $70,000 a year

379
00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:44,280
career because nothing's stopping them from going to get a PhD, but it's a real-life job

380
00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:45,800
with benefits.

381
00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:50,800
And I think if we work together here, and that's all it takes is everybody working together

382
00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:52,280
and saying we can build that here.

383
00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:53,800
We have all the right stuff.

384
00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:57,480
We can build a regional economy that everybody can participate in.

385
00:19:57,480 --> 00:19:58,480
And I love that.

386
00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:00,640
So I'm happy to work with small businesses.

387
00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:02,960
I work with the Knoxville Entrepreneur's Center.

388
00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:08,160
I work with Knoxville Area Urban League and with a bunch of other groups.

389
00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:14,280
And how can we help folks get ready to take advantage of everything this area has to offer?

390
00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:17,880
And I think we need to all come together, get Centro, Espano in there, they're a great

391
00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:25,240
group, and get the UT Apex program now together, and say, how do we get mom and pops?

392
00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:26,680
It's not just the entrepreneurial side.

393
00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:29,200
I'm big on the high-tech entrepreneurial side.

394
00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:33,120
We could talk about that, Market Square, Ventures, and all sorts of good things.

395
00:20:33,120 --> 00:20:37,800
But the mom and pops that are trying to get over the hump and start a business, and you

396
00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:39,840
ask them, well, do you have a checking account?

397
00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:40,840
Well, no.

398
00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:42,320
And what is your bookkeeping system?

399
00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:44,320
Well, I got these shoeboxes.

400
00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:45,840
We can help with that.

401
00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:49,600
We can help with that and get them where they're getting ready to, where they can get a loan.

402
00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:52,360
Because there are programs that alone money to small businesses, and where they can get

403
00:20:52,360 --> 00:20:54,720
some mentoring, like 100 Knoxville.

404
00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:59,560
I bet you've talked to folks from 100 Knoxville down at Knoxville Entrepreneur's Center.

405
00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:01,320
And there are things like that we can do.

406
00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:08,120
The guys at SEED, oh, my word, standing JD at SEED program, introducing kids to the whole

407
00:21:08,120 --> 00:21:11,720
green economy, building energy-efficient housing.

408
00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:13,040
I'm sorry, I'm talking too much.

409
00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:14,040
No, no, no, no.

410
00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:15,040
I love this stuff.

411
00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:16,040
I love this stuff.

412
00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:19,200
I'm sitting here thinking about how I would tag this.

413
00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:21,840
This is how I tag.

414
00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:24,040
I'm Harry Boston, and I approve this.

415
00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:26,800
No, I'm having a time of my life.

416
00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:29,480
Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

417
00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:30,800
You know what, Harry?

418
00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:33,200
I gotta tell you this.

419
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:38,280
I really am inspired by you and your optimism.

420
00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:40,280
Oh, yeah, I'm optimistic, yeah.

421
00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:42,480
And your forward motion.

422
00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:48,080
The fact that when you see a fork in the road, you take it, and the way your life has unfolded

423
00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:51,200
and evolved, I think it's really inspiring.

424
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:54,440
And it's proof that anything is possible.

425
00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:55,880
Thank you for being with us today.

426
00:21:55,880 --> 00:22:01,440
Thank you so much.