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Celebrating the power of possibility.

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I'm Clarice Phelps and I believe anything is possible.

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Welcome to Anything is Possible. These are great stories about great people whose lives prove that anything is possible.

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And in this position I've had this wonderful opportunity. I run into so many people who say,

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wait until you hear this story. And that's how I got to you.

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I was talking to people and they were like, you do realize that there is a young dynamic engineer out at the lab and she helped discover a new element on the periodic table.

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And I said, huh? Clarice Phelps, thanks for being on Anything is Possible.

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Thank you for having me.

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So you grew up in, if I follow my notes properly, you were born in Minneapolis, but you grew up in Nashville, Tennessee.

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Yes.

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And you're an amazing scientist. How do we get from there to here and what was it like?

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Well, you know, we grew up in the projects in Nashville and thankfully right across the street was the library.

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And so we would always go to the library and the librarians knew us as Carmen's kids.

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And we always would check books out and bring them home.

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And so I was just really fascinated with all the stories and all the things that I could kind of lose myself in.

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And then we had this set, I usually call it the Internet of My Day, the late 80s.

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It was the set of Encyclopedias.

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And so I would love looking through the Encyclopedias and, you know, they had some of the pages that were like really shiny.

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Oh, yeah, yeah. That's the world book.

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Yeah, the world book.

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It had the overlays. I trust me. I'm a nerd.

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Yeah, I love the world book Encyclopedia.

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And I would go and I'd look through and I'd read, you know, little stories and stuff.

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But I just didn't see a lot of, you know, people that looked like me in them.

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And I just wondered why that was.

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But outside of that, you know, I was always very tinkery.

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And, you know, and even to this day, I love doing like crafts.

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My hobby is picking up hobbies.

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So I used to like do little experiments in the kitchen with things that I probably shouldn't be mixing together.

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But I wanted to see what happened. So I was curious.

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So you're growing up in the projects.

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You said we.

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Yeah.

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And what's your we.

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So I'm the second of actually six, but my mom and dad, they had four between them two.

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And then my dad went on to have three more children.

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And so it was my older sister, me, and then my two younger sisters and my mom.

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Where did you find this incredible love of learning?

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Because if you live in the projects and there's a library across the street,

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there's probably many other things across the street that are not a library.

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You track to the library, which means you had some kind of love of learning or it was a safe space or both.

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Yeah, it was a love of learning. I love to read books.

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Who started you on that?

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I don't know. Like my mom, she always had books.

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Like she's always had lots of books.

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And even though we weren't into the kind of books that she read, she would always get us books.

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I love the smell of books, just trying to see how far I could read in a day.

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And I like the stories, because I loved the Black Stallion series and Dr. Doolittle.

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And so I would just like eat those books up because it was fun.

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Was your childhood great, difficult, somewhere in between?

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I would say it was pretty good.

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I mean, I don't think I realized, as an adult now, I don't think I realized how hard my mom had it

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and how she shielded us from all of that.

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And so, I mean, we never went without a meal.

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We always had clothes, you know, and we were always, you know, sheltered.

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So we had a good childhood.

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I'm a nerd. I tell people this all the time.

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I suspect that you are...

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Oh, yeah, I'm a nerd.

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You are a nerd.

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I love it all.

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My definition of a nerd is simply someone who never found the off switch to their curiosity.

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I took things apart to see how they worked.

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I wanted to know how they worked.

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I wanted to know how everything worked.

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I was fascinated.

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I was curious.

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But that only works if you are in a space where that fascination is affirmed and that curiosity is fueled.

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Yeah.

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Do you ever think about the fact that your mother left space for both?

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She probably did.

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Maybe because she had three other kids, you know, the space was kind of there

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because she might have been dealing with other children.

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But, you know, my mom, she had to work like third shift a lot.

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So we would kind of be left to our own divide.

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And this is the 80s, y'all.

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So this, you know, we could be by ourselves overnight.

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So we would like do a lot of things while she wasn't there.

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But when she was there, she did those things with us.

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And so there was this book, the Make and Do book.

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It was like a bunch of little experiments and stuff and crafts that you could do.

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And so we did all of those things in there because it was creative.

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It was, you know, we didn't have all the newest toys and stuff like that.

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So, I mean, you can take what you have and try to do something with it.

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I like the even the title of that book, Make and Do.

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Yeah.

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And then you make do, right?

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Yeah.

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Make do.

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What you have.

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Right.

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I like this.

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Possibility powered by Covenant Health, Home Federal, and the Knoxville News Sentinel.

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I like subjects.

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So I like science.

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And I had really good teachers that kind of nurtured that.

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And I just so happened to do well in science.

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Now,

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Why did you like science?

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Because it allowed me to ask questions like science is nothing but like you have to ask

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questions and you want to know why.

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And there's never an end to the questions.

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And so, you know how little kids like, but why, but why, but why, but that's kind of like

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how our brains work.

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We want to know why and how things happen and try to solve those problems.

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And so, like you said, you took apart your, you know, things I would take apart.

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And even now, like with my kids toys, I'll take it apart, even though I know it might

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not work when I put it back together, but I want to know what's inside of it.

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So I still like to know why and how things work.

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So your curiosity is satisfied in science because there's a lot to be curious about.

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And then you're surrounded by teachers that go, oh, I like this.

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So you go through high school and you're tracking on the science track.

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What kind of grades were you make?

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I made good grades in science.

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I still, I did not do well in like, like math and really.

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Yes. Oh, and you know what? That's why they make calculators.

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Okay. So then, and a lot of the math that I use now is, is, is, you know, very simplified, you know,

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but I didn't do well in math and like physics.

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I actually, yeah, calculus. Oh God.

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Yeah.

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You do realize you have a master's degree and you're working on a PhD and like nuclear engineering stuff.

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And I have to have help.

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I have to have help, especially when it comes to the math part.

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I have to, if I do the problem, I have to have somebody, you know, check it and make sure that I'm doing it right.

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Because I, you know, I know math is a big part of, big part of it.

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So I don't want to make any mistakes.

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So you're going through and you're making great grades in science.

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You finish high school and you decide to do what, what, what did you think you were going to do with this?

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Is this just a general curiosity or was the arrow aimed at a target?

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No, the arrow wasn't aimed at a target.

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I, I really didn't have a concrete plan.

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You know, you asked some high school students, oh, I'm going to go to college.

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I'm majoring in this and I'm going to go on and be a doctor, lawyer, whatever.

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I didn't really have an idea what I wanted to do.

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I knew, I still knew I liked science and so I decided to major in chemistry.

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But after college, I was like, I don't know, go work in a lab.

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I really didn't have like a, a clear idea of what it is that I wanted to do.

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So that kind of led me to not doing anything.

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So I didn't do like internships.

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Nothing.

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Nothing.

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I didn't do anything.

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You're just sitting.

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I was just going to class and I was getting my grades and I mean, I worked under my graduate advisor,

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senior year to work on my like senior thesis, but that was about it.

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And so when I graduated, I had no experience, like no like real world experience.

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So I usually tell people don't do that.

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My notes say you end up on an aircraft carrier.

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You were in, you're a veteran.

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Yes.

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You're in the Navy from not knowing to please fill in this gap.

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Okay.

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So this gap.

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So I literally like, I literally wrote down on a piece of paper side A and side B, all

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these places that I was going to apply to.

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And I went and I crossed them all off.

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Nobody, you know, well, there was one place that was hiring, but I was like, okay, yeah,

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that's, I can't work for that amount of money.

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And the other option was go to the military, like literally option B was go to the military.

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So I had exhausted all of my options on, you know, side A and I was like, well, I'll go

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to the military and I attested into the naval nuclear power program.

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And so that's what I decided to do.

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Nothing about nuclear at the time.

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So you're on an aircraft carrier.

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Were you on the Ronald Reagan?

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Yes.

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I was on the USS Ronald Reagan CVN 76.

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So you're on an aircraft carrier.

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You're a woman.

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You're a woman of color.

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This had to be, you're on another planet.

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Yeah.

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The department, like reactor department was pretty big because you have two nuclear reactors.

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So you need a lot of people.

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However, like each division, I was in a division called reactor laboratories division.

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So I was, I more or less handled like the radioactive controls on board the ship as

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well as the steam plant and reactor plant chemistry controls for the reactors.

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And so in our division, I was the only black person at the time when I got to the ship

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and only black women.

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So it was like, I was kind of, it was a, that was the beginning of the feeling isolated

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in my career.

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Like, you know, I've, I came from an HBCU and then I'm, you know, now I'm in an environment

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where, you know, there's nobody around that I can relate to.

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So that was, it was lonely.

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How did you get through that?

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I had a good circle of friends and I still keeping, I mean, we still have a group chat

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to this day.

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If I, you know, text them, they're going to text back.

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So I had a good circle of friends that I established and I just, I tried my best to

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maintain some sort of normalcy, like maintain a civilian mindset in the military.

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That doesn't work because when you get out, you realize how like, I guess assimilated

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you, you are, but I tried to, I tried to just stay grounded and be like, okay, in X amount

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of months, you know, I'll be doing this and then X amount of months, I'll be doing this

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or we'll be done with deployment.

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And so it, you know, just focusing on the what was coming next kind of helps.

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You served your country.

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You're now at Oak Ridge National Lab.

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This is a big gap.

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Did you know what was coming after the Navy?

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No, I did not know what was coming after the Navy, but I did learn while I was in the Navy

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that I really liked nuclear.

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I really liked, I liked what I did on the ship.

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I really liked my job, but the military, you know, some people make a career out of it.

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That was not for me.

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So I wanted to be home.

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I wanted to have some sort of like, you know, be able to see my family and things like that

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because I'd already gone on two deployments and I just, I was like, this, I don't think

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this is for me.

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And so, you know, I found out I like nuclear and so I didn't know what kind of opportunities

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were out there for me.

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So I said, well, I'm going to get like a science adjacent job.

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So I actually worked at a scientific instrument company and it was just like one day I took

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off of work and I like updated my resume and I just put my resume out there.

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I applied, I was like, oh, Oak Ridge National Lab.

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I applied to a bunch of other different labs, a bunch of other different companies.

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And I actually got a call back from the lab that same day by the end of the day.

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And yeah, the rest is history.

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I've been there 15 years now.

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You ended up helping discover an element.

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You didn't plan.

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No.

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So you got your masters and you're working in your PhD and we're really proud of you

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for that.

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But how did, what happened?

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Oh.

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I got to the lab and what happened?

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Yeah.

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So, you know, I get to the lab and the very first year I was on like a rotating shift

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schedule and I switched positions to a more research and development like support role.

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So I was a technician and the very first project that I got to work on was this, you know, purifying

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the burkelem that was used for Tennessee.

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And at the time, you know, and how it is still now is like you have a project, you work on

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your project till the money runs out or the project is finished and then you move on to

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the next project.

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And so you just keep going.

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And so at the time, you know, I'm a technician.

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I'm kind of just doing my job and our job is to purify this burkelem.

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And that's what we did.

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And after we finished it, I moved on to the next project because that's kind of, you know,

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that's just the nature of our job.

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And so thinking about it, I was like, oh, that's pretty cool.

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But now I have another project I have to focus on.

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And it wasn't until later that you realize the significance of what you did.

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Because a lot of times in, you know, in science and research and development, a lot of times

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it's things that you do in the moment like now.

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You know, you don't really...

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Yeah, you're on to the next thing.

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Yeah, you're on to the next thing.

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And it's sometimes it takes years before the fruits of your labor are able to be, you

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know, harvested.

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So the new element is Tennessee.

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Tennessee.

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Tennessee.

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Yeah.

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What is it?

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And how did that happen?

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So it's a super heavy element.

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And right now there are 118 elements on the periodic table.

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And element 117, it falls in the group, well, group seven elements.

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And so, you know, you've got like chlorine and fluorine and astatine, all of those in.

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So it follows that nomenclature.

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And it's named after the state of Tennessee because there were lots of different entities

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that were involved with its discovery.

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So Oak Ridge National Lab, Vanderbilt University and the University of Tennessee here.

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So you're in the kitchen in Nashville, putting stuff together, making discoveries, and now

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you're at the lab making discoveries.

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And does that thrill you?

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Yes.

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I really enjoy being able to get in the lab and do things.

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And I know this is weird, but I actually like when I make a mistake because even though

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I beat myself up, I mean, really bad if I mess up or I don't know something that I think

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I should have known.

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I really beat myself up about it.

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But it's because I want to learn more.

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I should have known that.

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So now I'm going to dedicate some time to making sure that I know what I need to know.

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I love what you just said.

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You said I like when I make a mistake because it means I'm going to learn more.

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Yeah.

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Right?

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What's the ultimate for you?

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I just want to encourage other black women specifically to find their voice in science.

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A lot of times when I will be in a place, it's a shock.

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Maybe not so much as a shock.

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It's just a, well, what are you doing here type of thing?

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And I want that to not be the norm anymore.

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I want women of color to take up space in places that they are normally not found.

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And making sure that young women, little kids, all the way down to toddlers, they get immersed

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in the possibilities of what science can do for them, their life.

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It changed my life.

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And just making sure that they stay curious in finding somebody or something that encourages

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that curiosity.

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Tell me about your family.

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Yes.

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So I am married to my husband, John.

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We've been married for 14 years this year.

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And we have three children.

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I have an eight year old and two five year old boys.

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So it's very busy.

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But thankfully we have his mother-in-law is here and we have family that are around here.

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My family is kind of all spread out like in Texas and Georgia and Minnesota, obviously.

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What do you think has contributed to your durability?

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Because you said you have felt isolated.

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And I'm sure that this is my, I don't know if this is your story, but this is my story.

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My external curiosity is matched by my internal curiosity, pulling myself apart to see how

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I work or why I don't work.

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And so when you are a curious person, you can be very introspective as well.

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And if you're isolated in a career field and that kind of thing, what has helped you kind

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of get through that?

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If that is true?

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Well, for me, the isolation, yeah.

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I mean, it was tough.

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But I always, what I focused on is that, I guess, I'm going to show them.

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You know, like I'm going to show them that I belong here.

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And so, because, you know, like I said before, it was like, what are you doing here?

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Well, I want to, I want you to realize that not only am I here, but I belong here.

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And so I kind of, my endurance or my perseverance is really kind of grounded in not only proving

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to myself that I know what I know, but making sure that people know that I know what I'm

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talking about.

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So here's what I would leave with you is this.

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There ought to be a children's book about your life in the story.

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That's a good idea.

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I think it would be, I mean, I see the story, the wonderful story of this wonderful woman

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going from the projects to the library to just then discovering a new element and just

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that whole story of you might discover something new, right?

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Yeah.

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A whole new possibility.

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Yeah.

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I like that.

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Anything's possible.

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Thank you for being here.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.