1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:11,740 Welcome to the Off the Page Podcast from Franciscan Media. 2 00:00:11,740 --> 00:00:17,200 This is part two of our podcast with Franciscan priest and poet Father Murray Bodo. 3 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:21,460 I highly recommend listening to part one if you have not done so already. 4 00:00:21,460 --> 00:00:25,900 Part two picks up after a conversation we had in part one about his journey back to 5 00:00:25,900 --> 00:00:30,160 his own heart as a poet and I then ask him how he got there. 6 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:35,280 This opens things up to a wonderful conversation around creativity and the origins of some 7 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:38,280 of his own poetry. 8 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:40,440 Father Murray is so awesome. 9 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:44,720 Several times it seemed like we were winding down but then something would be said that 10 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:48,520 would make him think of another poem that he'd then go digging through his books to 11 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:52,440 find which would then open up more personal stories from his journey. 12 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:56,100 So I did take some liberty with the editing here. 13 00:00:56,100 --> 00:01:00,780 No need for you to listen to us flipping through pages or having small talk because we think 14 00:01:00,780 --> 00:01:02,600 things are winding down. 15 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:07,800 But the conversations we had here were too special to not include. 16 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:09,080 This was an awesome episode. 17 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:12,480 So I hope it's as encouraging to you as it was for me. 18 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:17,100 And again, here is Father Murray Bodo. 19 00:01:17,100 --> 00:01:19,120 How did you reconnect to your heart? 20 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:20,120 I'm curious. 21 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:25,280 You know, you mentioned as you're writing, you've become so critical, kind of stuck in 22 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:26,280 your head. 23 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:29,160 And then you said something started opening up for you. 24 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:33,960 I think that's a very relatable experience as well. 25 00:01:33,960 --> 00:01:37,520 Like how did you get back to here? 26 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:40,680 Well it was an interesting thing. 27 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:48,880 Simultaneously with studying for my doctorate, I was writing poems and short stories because 28 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:52,240 that would be the dissertation. 29 00:01:52,240 --> 00:02:01,560 But they were, I was mining and rewriting poems that I had written before. 30 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:04,600 And there were some new poems there. 31 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:17,960 But I think what happened is I got beyond all I had learned about the craft of poetry. 32 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:26,080 And then the love of poetry took over again. 33 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:36,080 And I was also simultaneously, in the afternoons I was a record, I was typing the stories of 34 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:44,560 one of our Navajo missionaries about the early years of the friars on the Navajo reservation 35 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:46,980 at that time. 36 00:02:46,980 --> 00:02:51,360 And so, you know, I'm dealing with story. 37 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:58,760 I was dealing with stories and that gave me a better handle on story. 38 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:07,800 But it really started to change when I wrote the little book Juniper, God's Fool, or whatever 39 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:14,080 it's a brother, friend of Francis, Fool of Christ, or whatever. 40 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:21,280 I wrote that book and all that world of the heart and the early Franciscan stories came 41 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:31,280 about and then I was just somehow, I wouldn't say miraculously, but more suddenly than I 42 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:39,080 thought of that super critical attitude toward my own writing. 43 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:43,560 And I just let it start coming. 44 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:52,800 At the same time, I had become a friend of the American poet Denise Levertov, whom I 45 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:57,520 met through Song of the Sparrow. 46 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:06,160 I was teaching her poems and I got this letter from her that this book meant so much to her. 47 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:12,200 And of course, I was teaching the college seminarians at that time, the young friars. 48 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:20,360 I knew she didn't write that letter because I was teaching her, opening up her poems for 49 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:26,160 them and I was trying to figure out for three or four days which one of them did it and 50 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:29,520 to have me answer a letter. 51 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:34,640 But so, you know, after days of torture and I don't know what else I did, but then none 52 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:36,080 of them did it. 53 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:49,520 So I wrote back to her and we then had a correspondence and she stated our friary with us and I visited 54 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:52,740 her in her home in Seattle. 55 00:04:52,740 --> 00:05:05,360 And so she was the main one that was pulling my poetry out of my head and back into concrete 56 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:13,840 images that would speak better than what I was trying to preach. 57 00:05:13,840 --> 00:05:18,280 It's kind of heady. 58 00:05:18,280 --> 00:05:25,760 When poetry becomes too cerebral, it just doesn't work for me. 59 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:26,760 Yeah. 60 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:32,100 Well, I appreciate you sharing a little bit about that journey for you because every poem 61 00:05:32,100 --> 00:05:41,600 I've read of yours, I'm truly amazed of your ability for it to come from here. 62 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:46,960 But it's interesting that there was a journey for you back to that and I'm sure that you've 63 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:49,560 had to make that journey back again as well. 64 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:50,560 I did. 65 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:57,160 I had to remake the journey. 66 00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:05,280 Some of it involved as Rilke, the German poet, Rainer Maria Rilke in his letters to a young 67 00:06:05,280 --> 00:06:12,720 poet emphasizes if you don't have anything to say or think you don't, then go back to 68 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:15,720 your childhood. 69 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:26,000 That's when the poems really began to take on a deeper personal dimension. 70 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:29,360 I wrote quite a few poems about my childhood. 71 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:30,360 I'm always writing. 72 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:40,160 I'm still writing about my childhood because those images are very strong. 73 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:46,160 But that's part of the discipline. 74 00:06:46,160 --> 00:07:01,000 Of course, I'm not in any way putting down my doctoral degree in English because the 75 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:09,440 geniuses that I was opened up to that I hadn't maybe just peripherally read, Henry James 76 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:13,280 would be a perfect example. 77 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:23,240 And I've written a couple of poems of being at his home in Rye Lamb House in England because 78 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:29,840 it's about a half hour train ride from the Poor Clairs that I always make it a point 79 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:33,840 to visit on my way back and forth to Italy. 80 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:45,240 And so he became a huge character in my literary world. 81 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:47,960 But that's not what we're talking about. 82 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:54,800 We're talking about how to get back into my own world. 83 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:59,480 One of the well, it's too long a poem, but that might be for somewhere else. 84 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:07,040 I wrote a poem that I wrote in Rye at Lamb House. 85 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:17,480 But as you know, I put a couple of new poems in the new edition that's coming out. 86 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:18,480 Is it this year? 87 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:19,480 Yeah. 88 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:23,480 I know I cut you off earlier. 89 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:26,920 Was there another poem you wanted to read or maybe one of your new ones? 90 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:37,840 It was going to be this one, but it's because it relates to prayer in another way. 91 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:45,840 This other one is very personal, very concentrated on the eye in the poem. 92 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:57,400 And this one is a poem quite recently, this year in my hermitage in Florida, outside of 93 00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:03,400 the hermitage, I got this wonderful bougainvillea bush and it's eternal. 94 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:09,760 No matter how many times you cut it back, it just gets bigger and better. 95 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:21,120 So this poem, because it's about a sparrow and the song of the sparrow, a sparrow is 96 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:32,400 so, I'm building around this a little bit, a sparrow is so important to me for these 97 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:42,440 reasons, but here it is, in the song of the sparrow, I say there is something ragged and 98 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:49,360 unfinished about sparrows, yet they have always endeared themselves to me. 99 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:59,360 There is something Franciscan about their simplicity, their habit-colored feathers and their availability 100 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:07,440 when other birds hide away in the woods or fly south for the winter. 101 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:13,800 Now I read that and I say, well, that's me, I'm one of those other birds I go to in the 102 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:19,200 winter to write in this. 103 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:24,560 That was my reason for, that's part of the play of poetry. 104 00:10:24,560 --> 00:10:25,560 Yeah, exactly. 105 00:10:25,560 --> 00:10:29,960 I remember seeing it in your little life or whatever. 106 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:37,880 Okay, so this one is called Green Sparrow in the bougainvillea. 107 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:43,500 I've been sitting a long time under the bougainvillea. 108 00:10:43,500 --> 00:10:47,360 So far nothing has happened. 109 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:56,240 Though a green sparrow did perch briefly among the red leaves, then flew to the feeder to 110 00:10:56,240 --> 00:11:04,360 show off his glorious green for me and others who'd seen. 111 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:12,520 Such surprised performances keep me coming back to sit and wait with no agenda. 112 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:20,040 Aimless as it seems, waiting is the deepest kind of prayer. 113 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:24,600 More than birds show up there. 114 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:29,400 So there's something cerebral about this one. 115 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:34,280 But still it's saying more than it's saying. 116 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:38,400 I've been sitting a long time under the bougainvillea. 117 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:44,040 It used to be a cottonwood tree when I was seven years old. 118 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:47,520 But I've been sitting under that tree for a long time. 119 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:53,520 So you make this specific and it covers a lot of territory. 120 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:56,360 So far nothing has happened. 121 00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:58,680 So it seems. 122 00:11:58,680 --> 00:12:06,160 Although a green sparrow, which are very rare of course, perched briefly among the red leaves, 123 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:15,560 all that contrast, then flew to the feeder to show off his glorious green for me and 124 00:12:15,560 --> 00:12:19,200 others who'd seen. 125 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:25,760 It's a very tight poem because it's a sonnet, an Italian sonnet, eight lines and then six. 126 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:33,280 Such surprised performances keep me coming back to sit and wait with no agenda. 127 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:38,000 Aimless as it seems, waiting is the deepest kind of prayer. 128 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:41,000 More than birds show up there. 129 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:50,000 It's like all those times that I had an agenda and spent most of the prayer on my agenda 130 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:53,240 for God. 131 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:56,120 And it's all about me or whatever. 132 00:12:56,120 --> 00:13:02,680 And there are other times when I'm just sitting like here and a green sparrow shows up. 133 00:13:02,680 --> 00:13:05,600 I couldn't thought that up. 134 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:12,160 If you know or made that happen, it happened because I was there. 135 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:18,920 The same thing we were talking about earlier. 136 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:26,560 So that dimension of poetry and also journey and also story. 137 00:13:26,560 --> 00:13:29,520 Story is very important. 138 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:44,120 And in the new section that I wrote in the song of the sparrow, it begins with journeys. 139 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:48,680 But it's also about story. 140 00:13:48,680 --> 00:14:00,800 And I see that that's one of the things that another academic degree really made me aware 141 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:03,080 of our stories. 142 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:05,800 We're all stories. 143 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:14,640 And it depends on who's telling them, who is the narrator, what is the story and the 144 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:21,760 best way to connect to an experience. 145 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:29,360 I'm talking in terms of art now is often story. 146 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:38,120 There's a story involved or there's a backstory that's making this thing click for people. 147 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:44,680 I don't know, this is kind of but just to show you the difference of when this thing 148 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:47,400 came. 149 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:49,720 So I'll just read a little bit. 150 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:50,720 Please. 151 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:51,720 Yeah. 152 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:56,320 A summer Sunday evening on the Lakeshore Limited from New York City to Cleveland. 153 00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:58,320 Oh, that's where I was. 154 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:00,600 I wonder about. 155 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:08,440 We are passing along the Hudson River at sunset, a red glow on the New Jersey hills across 156 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:13,320 the river as we approach the tip of Manhattan. 157 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:22,920 I pray for loved ones as I watch the broad Hudson flat and smooth at this hour. 158 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:31,680 Like a hammered bronze shield, the river reflects the reddening sky and turns silver as the 159 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:39,160 glow of the setting sun gradually wanes and the gray light of twilight irons out the red 160 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:41,920 tints on the water. 161 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:50,920 We pass Dobbs Ferry just as the sun pops up over a low hill for a few seconds, roughing 162 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:57,960 the water, rouging the water as if for a festive celebration. 163 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:01,360 Swiftly we pass Irvington. 164 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:03,960 For Washington Irving? 165 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:12,000 The crests of the hills across the Hudson burn as in an Irving tale. 166 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:15,680 The clouds form fantastic shapes. 167 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:20,240 Is Sleepy Hollow Cemetery near? 168 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:21,600 I wonder. 169 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:26,880 And just as I'm thinking these thoughts, we pass Tarrytown. 170 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:35,920 And yes, I murmur, here is Ichabod Crane and Rip Van Winkle and the headless horseman. 171 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:39,960 You see how the journey is because I'm paying attention to it. 172 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:47,320 Dark hills now, black with a hint of blue where the remaining twilight breaks through. 173 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:56,600 Idyllic seems an understated word for the magic that light and shadow, red glow and 174 00:16:56,600 --> 00:17:04,680 bronzed river turning to silver and the memory of reading Irving creates. 175 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:11,200 So what you're seeing related to the story and then you're making your own story. 176 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:16,280 I reach for color, but I have no art with paint and brush. 177 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:24,120 I wish I could reach up to a shelf of Irving works and pull down what his word painted 178 00:17:24,120 --> 00:17:34,400 there of black hills and blue as we rush through Austin where mallards root like an escutcheon 179 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:42,240 on the burnished shield of a Hudson inlet that will bring us into Croton Arden. 180 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:47,440 And this looking at the things that come up outside the train. 181 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:55,240 How is it I'm mesmerized here so far from the New Mexico landscape of my youth? 182 00:17:55,240 --> 00:18:00,440 And why is this landscape so congenial, so familiar? 183 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:08,280 Isn't it because it is already inside me in the words of Irving who made this landscape 184 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:16,840 a part of my own interior geography through the enchanting power of words like these from 185 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:19,000 the legend of sleepy of all of them. 186 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:25,600 I'll read them and because this goes on and on, but I'll just give you a little bit of 187 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:29,320 Washington Irving. 188 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:33,000 But so you see this is meditation. 189 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:34,000 Yes. 190 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:41,360 In the bosom of one of those spacious coves which indent the shore of the Hudson at the 191 00:18:41,360 --> 00:18:48,560 broad expansion of the river denominated by the ancient Dutch navigators as the top on 192 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:56,160 Zay and where they always prudently shortened sale and implored the protection of St. Nicholas 193 00:18:56,160 --> 00:19:06,880 when they crossed there lies a small market town or rural port which by some is called 194 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:16,760 Greensboro but which is more generally and properly known by the name of Tarrytown. 195 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:23,980 It's all those images of your youth of the stories and you know the name was given we 196 00:19:23,980 --> 00:19:29,680 are told in former days by the good housewives of the adjacent country. 197 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:33,840 I wonder if that's supposed to be county. 198 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:38,600 Oh my we already sent the book in didn't we? 199 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:41,480 We may have found that one actually. 200 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:43,440 I think the proofreader may have found that one. 201 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:44,440 Oh wonderful. 202 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:45,440 Because it sounds familiar. 203 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:50,760 The good wives of the ancient county from the inveterate propensity of their husbands 204 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:56,280 to linger about the village tavern on market days. 205 00:19:56,280 --> 00:20:10,680 So as I read that and read the beginning of the book this writing is much more sophisticated 206 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:18,680 than when I first started writing in 1976 and so and a lot of that has come from my 207 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:30,040 academic richening of my academic background and but it becomes part of them then of who 208 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:39,680 I am and so one of my favorite things about that poem is you said it earlier it's one 209 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:48,360 moment yeah it's one moment that you're gazing upon and yet because you're allowing yourself 210 00:20:48,360 --> 00:20:54,600 to become vulnerable to that moment yeah all these things are opening up within you know 211 00:20:54,600 --> 00:21:00,920 stories from your youth things that are already ingrained within you that you didn't realize 212 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:06,120 were ingrained within you until you're seeing this scene and I mean that's such a beautiful 213 00:21:06,120 --> 00:21:12,800 thing about poetry and your poetry in particular is it and that's prayer too right it's like 214 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:19,920 hey like that there's something here in this moment and in a lot of times when you give 215 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:28,320 that moment a chance it does pull you deeper into wonder and in paying attention it's and 216 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:35,320 sometimes it's disorienting like it's usually not very linear but it's wondrous nonetheless 217 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:45,560 it's wondrous nonetheless when you were speaking it just reminded me of Robert Frost's definition 218 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:57,080 of a poem he said it's a momentary it's a momentary pause it's not pause and a momentary 219 00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:14,440 stay against confusion a momentary stay against confusion yeah yeah and and yeah go ahead 220 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:22,160 and I thought when I first wrote in 76 you know they were saying they said you're going 221 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:29,880 to put poems in the book nobody reads poems I said no but if they come let me just put 222 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:35,840 them in and you can take them out if they don't but if they seem to fit but at the same 223 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:44,840 time I secretly wished in my heart that it was a way to show people that poems can be 224 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:51,720 read that they're not just for people who read poetry but this little thing speaking 225 00:22:51,720 --> 00:23:00,800 to me call it a poem or prayer whatever you can call that they would no longer shy away 226 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:12,520 from a book that had poetry in it as well as prose yeah you know so it's all of it 227 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:23,920 is is a very organic thing you know if you let something unfold you know like if I had 228 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:29,560 gotten on that train and say well good now I'm going to write something about story and 229 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:35,960 yeah but I did I didn't know I wasn't doing that I was looking and I was so taken with 230 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:45,360 what I was looking I just started I like a scribe writing down what I was seeing or hearing 231 00:23:45,360 --> 00:23:58,800 or feeling and that's how that that sort of thing happens yeah and I when I saw that first 232 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:05,000 piece of writing in summer I was really excited I said I'll I'll write things that will be 233 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:11,180 a little different than they were the big at the beginning but they'll be the same thing 234 00:24:11,180 --> 00:24:21,520 in another voice or another time of my life here I'm almost 80 when I was writing it I'm 235 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:33,340 36 37 whatever and so something should have happened in between all of that if that makes 236 00:24:33,340 --> 00:24:40,840 any sense it does it does and it kind of leads to my one of my final questions is is you 237 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:48,960 reflect on your life that you've spent not only in religious life but your creative life 238 00:24:48,960 --> 00:25:04,120 I'm just curious what have you learned about God or life capital ly for creativity that's 239 00:25:04,120 --> 00:25:08,760 another softball question I mean that is the softball question becoming hardball I think 240 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:24,880 is what but it it I think what I'm thinking here but but my the first thing that comes 241 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:36,060 off the top of my head when I look back on my creative life and my life of prayer which 242 00:25:36,060 --> 00:25:46,380 have been joined together from the minute I started writing I think what I'm most aware 243 00:25:46,380 --> 00:26:07,040 of today is how much of our lives is about gift and about not meriting or deserving of 244 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:19,960 things that happen that are marvelous something happens and it's a gift of God and so I am 245 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:30,080 much more daring I'm writing a new book of poetry now in just trusting the gift it's 246 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:39,560 coming from the spirit it's true it's coming from God and just let it come and enjoy it 247 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:51,640 and be thankful for it and try to make it on the page the Greek word means a maker and 248 00:26:51,640 --> 00:27:02,960 I'm making and the word stanza a stanza of poetry is Italian word stanza it's a room 249 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:09,800 and I'm I have this empty room when I look at a page and I'm going to put furniture in 250 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:16,560 there I'm going to rearrange it and all of this so it becomes more of a of everything 251 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:23,360 coming being a gift and how would it fit in this picture instead of saying well that doesn't 252 00:27:23,360 --> 00:27:33,040 quite fit now so I you know but let it come and then see what the final what the outcome 253 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:39,000 is of that it's the same thing in prayer if you go in with one intention or you hope that 254 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:44,720 this is going to be this and all of a sudden it's anything but what you thought it was 255 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:55,000 going to be and you're trying to be open to it and if you receive it as a gift and then 256 00:27:55,000 --> 00:28:04,120 bless it it will be and so that that's a lot of what I just noticed that about my last 257 00:28:04,120 --> 00:28:11,200 four or five poems have had a lot to do about death and I say now where is that coming from 258 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:18,160 a young guy like me what is this what is happening here but I wouldn't say well I better not 259 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:25,840 write that it might take me somewhere I don't want to go and I said why why would I be afraid 260 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:35,560 to go that's a great gift it's a portal into something that might deepen my love of the 261 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:46,040 journey all the way to the end and beyond so that's kind of what I I'm kind of so much 262 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:56,920 aware of right now and and that being so whenever anything comes I mean I practically I'm glad 263 00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:01,640 I'm not a race car driver or something because I'd have to stop the car and write it down 264 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:05,600 you know I get up in the middle of the night and I write whatever it is because it's a 265 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:13,600 gift it might never come again and I'm so aware of that I have been my whole life but 266 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:23,560 not not as not as poignantly as I do now when when something comes I don't say oh I can't 267 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:29,040 I can't do that I won't have enough years to even do I just say wow what is well look 268 00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:36,760 at this let's see what goes you know and so that is that's been one of the things I've 269 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:47,960 learned it's beautiful and I've also learned that in one sense my life your life our lives 270 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:58,760 those who pray my life is a prayer it's becoming a prayer and so is your life and her life 271 00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:11,440 and their lives you know a life lived sincerely with a longing for God is a prayer yes your 272 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:24,280 life itself and sometimes you you you have the time to pray more deeply or write or dance 273 00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:33,040 or sing or paint or whatever it is but there's more time than others but you're still in 274 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:42,840 the game you're still the little boy or the little girl who wondered who God is and and 275 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:52,000 will I ever see God is he an old man is he is it somebody told me the other day her 276 00:30:52,000 --> 00:31:05,000 her little granddaughter who had not the parents of her granddaughter are unchurched so she 277 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:12,480 or another woman took the little girl to church she said would you like to go and she said 278 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:22,840 oh yes and so she goes into comes into the church and she said why is that man hanging 279 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:32,400 up there on that cross who is that and they said well that's Jesus and she said oh no 280 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:47,040 it's not Jesus is a baby that is her for God you know and of course who God is in each 281 00:31:47,040 --> 00:32:01,040 of our lives is much more expansive and profound and deep than what we could even imagine but 282 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:09,480 if you've continued to pray and and continue to try to be in a space where God can find 283 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:22,320 you you you you God God changes yeah for you he's not God of you know God of course is 284 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:30,840 eternal but that's nice who can connect with that you know it's it's it's how I experience 285 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:42,600 God now oh I know that God is in my life I know God is touching me here you know sometimes 286 00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:49,200 you can even break into tears and you don't know why you're crying and you could be in 287 00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:55,000 church you could be walking down the street you could be taking a shower you know you 288 00:32:55,000 --> 00:33:07,280 just don't know but there is something that is tremendously important to you that's trying 289 00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:14,500 to break through somehow and tell you that it's there and it wants to make friends with 290 00:33:14,500 --> 00:33:32,760 you somehow or connect with you so it's it's like it's like living in the spirit is living 291 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:41,480 in the body it's who you are right now I keep over my desk all the time this quote from 292 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:56,800 one Corinthians Paul 15 to 44 what is sown a physical body is raised a spiritual body 293 00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:05,040 if there is a physical body there is also a spiritual body there are they are one there 294 00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:16,160 are one and so to live in the spirit is to live in your own skin in touch with the spirit 295 00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:28,520 part of who you are I don't know why that touches me so but it does that that's that's 296 00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:35,880 a I see I guess it's because so throughout my life in my own life and in other people's 297 00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:45,160 lives I have seen people trying to become spiritual whatever that means and they're 298 00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:57,200 running away from the body or they are trying to become a spirit or something and they're 299 00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:07,720 trying to ascend upward and God is coming down becoming incarnate and we meet each other 300 00:35:07,720 --> 00:35:14,880 it's so obvious where God is because we're going up and he's scratching his head coming 301 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:24,780 down he's going to be a baby he is a human being this is the incarnation for Franciscans 302 00:35:24,780 --> 00:35:34,760 is the center of all spirituality the incarnation of God God actually becomes human just like 303 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:46,280 us except for sin that's what Paul said he knows things you know he sometimes he sounds 304 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:55,480 like he knows everything but he really is a writer who you say where it's gotta come 305 00:35:55,480 --> 00:36:02,520 from God he knows much and of course he's writing his epistle to the Romans before the 306 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:10,320 four gospels were even written yeah it's okay he really kind of founded Christianity in 307 00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:19,520 one sense but he found language or language found him you know that's another way of putting 308 00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:26,840 it you know in the beginning was the word but the word became flesh and dwelt among 309 00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:37,600 us you know it's like the all of those all of those things that tend to separate are 310 00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:46,600 not good in my vocabulary separate people separate soul from body separate this from 311 00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:59,520 things which integrate are of God because everything is of God and so to bring all that 312 00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:08,720 together in your life Thomas or not Thomas what's his name John eats writing to his brother 313 00:37:08,720 --> 00:37:17,040 once who lived in Kentucky of all places in America and he was writing to him and he says 314 00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:34,600 that earth or life on earth is a veil of the a le a valley veil of soul making we're learning 315 00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:43,120 to make our souls and it sounds like you don't have a soul you have to make one but there 316 00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:50,800 is something about accepting that gift that you have a soul now what are you going to 317 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:59,240 do with it and we see the people we say they're great soul what a great soul that person was 318 00:37:59,240 --> 00:38:07,640 it is you know like they have really worked on this gift yes yeah they're they're they're 319 00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:22,960 their wholeness their spirit their body their goodness or whatever and sorry yeah that is 320 00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:28,800 and that makes me think of creativity again where we started you know where it's in the 321 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:34,480 spiritual life to seems like there is okay yes you are born with the soul but there's 322 00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:41,360 this participatory element to it like you you are making you're creating yes partnering 323 00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:48,740 with someone in that creation to deepen your soul to become more aware of what's already 324 00:38:48,740 --> 00:38:55,680 true within you oh yeah it's just such a that's a good beautiful way to put it that's what 325 00:38:55,680 --> 00:39:05,920 it is it's this cooperation this participatory act of of taking this great gift of you your 326 00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:16,320 unique personality and embracing that and then expanding it by cooperating with God's 327 00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:31,120 grace God's inspiration God's you know and because we you know we we spend our whole 328 00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:37,760 lives people like me and you we spend our whole lives you know trying to see God or 329 00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:43,400 feel God or know where God is when and every day we're meeting him I'm meeting God right 330 00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:50,000 now I don't see any other Christ except you and you're in the screen I can't even get 331 00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:59,960 in there but I know I know you're there in there somewhere but it's that's where we seek 332 00:39:59,960 --> 00:40:21,240 God that's where we become Christ I am sorry you're fine a few years ago I'll I'll I'll 333 00:40:21,240 --> 00:40:30,000 end with this is this is this yeah yeah because I because my voice is going I haven't done 334 00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:46,800 some opera this morning yet to make my opera self anyway I went to Gethsemane Abbey because 335 00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:55,120 of there was this conference there you go you have it between the Trappists and the 336 00:40:55,120 --> 00:41:08,520 Tibetan monks led by the Dalai Lama who was doing a return journey to Merton's grave as 337 00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:16,360 Merton made the journey to see the Dalai Lama when he went to Bangkok when he was where 338 00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:23,480 he died you know that so they were having this conference and I just I had to get there 339 00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:29,320 I didn't know how to lie shields like trying to find a Benedict and have it or anything 340 00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:41,720 I said trying to get into and so I called a friend of my Trappists there Patrick Hart 341 00:41:41,720 --> 00:41:50,520 who had been Merton's secretary and I said how can I possibly get into that conference 342 00:41:50,520 --> 00:42:00,080 and he said well what I'd suggest is through the press go to St. Anthony messenger at that 343 00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:06,480 time the press and say could could could I write an article or something and I have a 344 00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:12,040 press thing too and that's how I got in I wrote a article for the St. Anthony messenger 345 00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:24,520 in a chapter in in my one of my books the landscape of prayer so I'm there and the we 346 00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:31,880 were like in a like almost a balcony but it was kind of raised and then the monks were 347 00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:39,320 down in the arena down here it seemed and we were just listening and observing and one 348 00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:48,160 day I looked up about 1030 in the morning 10 there was a coffee break bathroom break 349 00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:56,360 or whatever they took a break and I was fiddling with something and I looked up and there was 350 00:42:56,360 --> 00:43:03,560 everybody was gone except the Dalai Lama who was sitting down there with the ended up being 351 00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:11,920 his bodyguard on the other side but and I said hmm God wants me to go down I have to 352 00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:18,240 go down there I you know I they'll start coming back as soon as I head down there I know it 353 00:43:18,240 --> 00:43:24,440 but it didn't happen so I got down there I didn't even know what I was going to say but 354 00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:30,800 I said I have to get down there so I went down and came up to him and I said your holiness 355 00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:37,200 would you pray with me that was a total gift I didn't know I was going to say that or what 356 00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:45,400 I was going to do so and he said of course so he sat down he took my hand he was sitting 357 00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:55,160 down I sat down next to him and he took my hand looked into my eyes total silence for 358 00:43:55,160 --> 00:44:09,960 about three minutes I had never felt compassion and love at that level coming from another 359 00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:17,560 human being through his eyes of course he is the in their faith the reincarnation of 360 00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:27,260 the Buddha of compassion so I mean I was so I mean I was just done in I did manage to 361 00:44:27,260 --> 00:44:35,560 get back to me there's more to the story but what I what I just recently I was thinking 362 00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:47,320 about that experience and I never had never asked myself I wonder what he felt coming 363 00:44:47,320 --> 00:45:00,880 from me did he see Christ did he feel my all in being in his presence did he feel my my 364 00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:10,400 love my compassion I didn't think of this but until recently I said because you know 365 00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:20,040 it's always a two-way street in one way or another and I thought wow that's how we are 366 00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:28,480 present to others yes it's by looking with love at somebody and or and if we are making 367 00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:37,000 our souls building our souls we're trying to be Christ like most probably that's what 368 00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:45,080 they'll feel they want to feel evil they won't feel hatred or violence or they will feel 369 00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:53,360 this soul that we've become and I'm using that in quotes you know so and and it was 370 00:45:53,360 --> 00:46:05,760 so strange because I never now this is the way God works because I remember now when 371 00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:15,200 he left there were all the monks were lined up you know like a belt line or something 372 00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:22,840 that you had to run through and his car was at the end down there and his car came in 373 00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:33,840 and and he rolled the window down and he looked at everything and then he looked at me he 374 00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:42,800 looked right at me and I knew that once again I had to go there so I walked through all 375 00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:49,000 those monks said I know they thought I was crazy but I walked through and went right 376 00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:55,600 to the car and and and and he wanted to shake my hand he looked at me again and then he 377 00:46:55,600 --> 00:47:09,200 left but so maybe he saw something too that of himself in me as I saw something of myself 378 00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:20,280 in him and that's that's how that's how we make God presence to one present to one another 379 00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:25,120 so that all the prayer we're doing all the work all the grace all the masses all the 380 00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:32,480 sacraments all this are so that we can be Christ we don't have to say oh I have to turn 381 00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:40,560 Christ on now you know when we're present to someone and that is the error are of the 382 00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:53,880 word sport your openness will your response will be to build a soul that's worthy of the 383 00:47:53,880 --> 00:48:01,600 other whoever that other is it could be somebody who'd like to wring their neck but you're 384 00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:10,280 moved yeah you're moved by Christ to be Christ because that's who you have become and that 385 00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:16,480 was all gift yeah I didn't say it would have gone saying I'll make me into Christ and don't 386 00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:21,960 take don't take too long because I'm gonna have a more the short life or what it happens 387 00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:31,760 in the process of being who we are and with you know at least a minimum of discipline 388 00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:41,920 to try to focus at least once a day on God's love God's goodness God's presence you know 389 00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:50,320 however briefly because it always goes longer if you do brief visits you're gonna have a 390 00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:57,280 lot of visits and you're gonna end and to use your words you're going to long for it 391 00:48:57,280 --> 00:49:08,960 the longing will come and that's what will which will make the difference yeah the moral 392 00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:13,240 of the Dalai Lama story is that st. Anthony messenger needs to give you more trespasses 393 00:49:13,240 --> 00:49:19,860 that they're not what that they what I said the st. Anthony messenger needs to give you 394 00:49:19,860 --> 00:49:25,560 more trespasses more assignments last time they put you on assignment you met the Dalai 395 00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:34,600 Lama tonight oh yeah saying hello Dolly or what but I ended up asking him into pray you 396 00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:43,760 know it's the it's those kinds of happenings in our life and thank you for this opportunity 397 00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:57,720 to talk about the books it's been awesome spirituality and you know I had a real a period 398 00:49:57,720 --> 00:50:07,800 in my life where it started at the seminary where we had teachers who were saying you 399 00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:15,800 know this is a backstory now how was your time oh I'm good yeah I mean I want to be 400 00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:20,760 conscious of your time and your energy but I'm I'm fine I'm I'm all ears for as long 401 00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:28,480 as you want to talk okay well this this then would be the you know like one of them would 402 00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:37,840 say you know you can't you can't this we were teenagers in the mind you can't you can't 403 00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:44,080 have pets and you can't pet animals and dogs and cats and that because it'll arouse your 404 00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:53,800 senses teenagers they're always aroused what they don't need cats and I said no that's 405 00:50:53,800 --> 00:51:02,120 what you know what what were they talking about but I got so scared and I had my Sally 406 00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:08,240 my dog oh god I loved my Sally it was was this said when you were in school I think 407 00:51:08,240 --> 00:51:14,560 I missed something like me I was teach I was a teenager at the high school seminary in 408 00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:24,360 Mount Elk okay gotcha okay gotcha so we got to go home for Christmas both I only got home 409 00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:29,320 because I had to ride a bus so I was home four days and the rest I was three days on 410 00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:37,200 each side on the bus and my dad and I was lying in bed first night and there in my room 411 00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:44,680 and my dog Sally came in and and I was afraid to pet her so what a good dog and then I just 412 00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:57,040 went and then when I came back in the summer she was dead and that kind of spirituality 413 00:51:57,040 --> 00:52:04,040 I fought against that for years you know because they'd got it somehow in my system yeah so 414 00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:12,040 it took me a long time to pull out a ball of that we still have friars and have those 415 00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:18,920 kinds of fears you're young you've got to be careful what you say to young people the 416 00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:29,040 guy was nuts anyway but anyway so that was the thing that I found words for yeah when 417 00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:37,720 I went to Henry James's house because I knew he had these little dogs these little Dotsons 418 00:52:37,720 --> 00:52:46,840 it was really and I might read you the poem but if I can't get this yeah it's a hard 419 00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:56,200 one for me to read but I think it was in the its book is called a far country near poems 420 00:52:56,200 --> 00:53:02,800 new and selected so the new ones were far country near it might been right where I thought 421 00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:21,800 it was you see why they have first lines at the end of collected works and all of them 422 00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:29,960 must not want me to read this poem I don't know or it means at midnight I oh I don't 423 00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:36,560 think that's a very early book visions and revisions it could be in that one or maybe 424 00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:40,580 God really wants you to read the poem because we're we've been playing with these themes 425 00:53:40,580 --> 00:53:47,440 of waiting throughout the whole conversation I have I'm gonna have to work at this exactly 426 00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:56,720 it's a blend of looking at every Sunday with Julian oh that's a fun Julian of Norwich that's 427 00:53:56,720 --> 00:54:16,240 a that's a fun poem but now said go complain to the sea this is very strange it should 428 00:54:16,240 --> 00:54:32,240 be on visiting the home of Henry James here it is I kept looking for on its visiting the 429 00:54:32,240 --> 00:54:40,920 home of Henry James in rye he was called you know by other writers the master so the master 430 00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:51,600 in here is James not Jesus 431 00:54:51,600 --> 00:55:03,480 while visiting the theme of Henry James in rye my dog Sally the Springer spaniel of my 432 00:55:03,480 --> 00:55:14,560 childhood just bounded down the street outside lamb house that's his home and I saw my dog 433 00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:23,560 I mean it was a real dog but just like my dog where I'm reading Denise Lebert off waiting 434 00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:32,240 for Henry James to open the door the master of whom Lebert off writes then I quote her 435 00:55:32,240 --> 00:55:42,240 remember James rehearsing over and over his theme the loss of innocence and the attainment 436 00:55:42,240 --> 00:55:55,720 note by separate note sounding its tone until by accretion a chord resounds of somber understanding 437 00:55:55,720 --> 00:56:04,800 what a summary of James like my dog Sally appearing so many years after my loss of innocence 438 00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:15,000 and me seeing birth and finally understanding not somberly but with a rueful smile that 439 00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:26,480 things recur and we can bless what we dismissed like the childhood dog we outgrew or in my 440 00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:36,760 case gave up or a pseudo God who disappeared years later so that I want to run after someone 441 00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:45,240 else's dog and brace her and say I'm sorry I did not understand lost my innocence to 442 00:56:45,240 --> 00:56:54,160 a false repressive religion that frowned on petting and cuddling animals I now embrace 443 00:56:54,160 --> 00:57:04,440 to refine the innocent God of my childhood gentle Sally hear my prayer as now I enter 444 00:57:04,440 --> 00:57:16,360 James's dining room and walk out in the sunlit garden where I bury you at last in the southwest 445 00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:24,440 corner of James's garden at lamb house where the master buried his own dogs and where these 446 00:57:24,440 --> 00:57:35,600 elegiac lines try to render the tone of the spreading mulberry tree the dog like Sally 447 00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:45,200 and me tones everything and Henry James by picking uses that word over and over again 448 00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:53,760 what is that yeah yeah just you know I thought of that when you were talking about your spirituality 449 00:57:53,760 --> 00:58:01,320 you know fundamentalist and then and you were a creator of the world what what were your 450 00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:10,720 next something all the things you went until you finally read this burn you yeah yeah in 451 00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:19,000 it I appreciate you sharing that story about Sally and reading the poem and it's a beautiful 452 00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:27,600 but also heartbreaking poem but then it's so so crazy for me to think about your journey 453 00:58:27,600 --> 00:58:36,480 of like there was a time when you were afraid to pet this dog you are and yet now all your 454 00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:42,480 poems are so sensory I know it's like it's like you're petting Sally with each poem you 455 00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:54,280 know it's oh boy is that ever true and and that is a good description of my poetry sensory 456 00:58:54,280 --> 00:59:01,680 you know there I try to be anyway because it's all we talked about that there's a spiritual 457 00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:07,600 body there's a physical body if there's a spiritual body you know all of this that is 458 00:59:07,600 --> 00:59:16,440 a part of integration yes there didn't psychological terms but no matter what the terms does the 459 00:59:16,440 --> 00:59:26,000 experience is the same that we achieve a certain amount of integrity in the sense of integration 460 00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:37,360 of all of these seemingly opposing ideas or opposing feelings opposing sites and sounds 461 00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:46,600 or whatever yeah so anyway that I well thank you yeah this has been so fun and I'm glad 462 00:59:46,600 --> 00:59:53,720 I hope you there's something there you can use or if not at least you know it's it's 463 00:59:53,720 --> 01:00:00,080 something you can laugh about and then it moved by from time to time and whatever I'm 464 01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:06,640 sure there's plenty we can use here again that was father Murray Bodo his new book God's 465 01:00:06,640 --> 01:00:11,680 love song the vision of Francis and Claire which he co-authored with Susan st. Singh 466 01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:19,120 is available in the Franciscan media store at shop franciscanmedia.org in the refresh 467 01:00:19,120 --> 01:00:25,640 of song of the sparrow four seasons of prayer will be released August 2024 it's a beautiful 468 01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:30,720 and honest book that really invites readers into the rhythm of a disciplined lifestyle 469 01:00:30,720 --> 01:00:35,560 of prayer even through seasons of life that are filled with waiting if you enjoyed this 470 01:00:35,560 --> 01:00:40,420 conversation I think you'll really enjoy the book huge thanks again to father Murray for 471 01:00:40,420 --> 01:00:45,560 being on the off the page podcast from Franciscan media and thanks as well to father Cyprian 472 01:00:45,560 --> 01:00:50,640 Concilio for providing the music for this episode I encourage you to check his music 473 01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:57,600 out on Spotify or wherever you listen to your music this is Stephen Copeland signing off 474 01:00:57,600 --> 01:01:06,720 peace and all good