Welcome to the Live with Sondra podcast where
we dive deep into business, tech, and entrepreneurship.
Hosted by me, Sondra Shannon, CEO of GateMaster
Technology. Each show, we explore the latest
trends in ticketing attractions and guest experience,
helping you stay ahead of the curve in this ever
-evolving world of attractions and events. Whether
you're an industry expert or just getting started,
this show has insights to inspire and empower
you. Today's episode is sponsored by GateMaster
Technology, your trusted partner for ticketing
and attraction management solutions. Let's get
started with the show. Valentine's Day and we're
live, live with Sondra and today we, I'm super
excited about this topic, not only because it
is Valentine's Day, and I believe today is the
day that we need to talk about showing some love
to the guests. Visit our attractions, but also
because I have a friend and gate master technology
partner who's going to be joining us on the show.
So I just want to start off by saying that in
today's dynamic attraction landscape, guests
expect flexibility and peace of mind. The parks
and attractions face the dual challenge of. offering
competitive refund policies while ensuring financial
stability. And we're going to talk about that
today on this show and how innovation in the
refund solution area of our businesses is addressing
both of these concerns and enhancing the guest
experience. And so please help me welcome to
the stage my friend and one of GateMaster Technology
partners, Morgan Abney. from the Protect Group.
Morgan, welcome to the show. Hi, Sandra. Thank
you so much for having me. I am so excited to
be here. Thank you for being here. I'm so excited
for us to have this conversation today. And we're
going to dive right in. But first, how's your
Valentine's Day? I know you've got a Valentine.
I do, my sweet husband. It's great. Obviously,
we're just working today, but we're going to
have some steaks and watch a movie tonight and
just have a nice little comfortable Valentine's
Day. I love that. We're both working late, but
my Valentine's just down the hall in another
office, so we could see each other all day. But
yeah, well, happy Valentine's Day to you. Well,
I was just telling everyone in the introduction.
that you are with the Protect Group. And I want
to kick things off by asking if you can share
a couple of things, your perspective on the current
state in theme parks and attractions, and also
how the role that Protect Group sees itself aligning
with these industry trends. So I know that's
a big question. Can we just jump right into it
though? Because I know we're dying to hear from
you. Of course. Yeah. I mean, I think the state
of the industry is absolutely changing. Technology
is becoming like very, very forefront as far
as we're offering an enhancement of customer
experience, which we know is a theme park industry
to go to a theme park where they're having a
great time and experiencing. the best possible
thing um and really what is enhance that for
everyone um i think as far as technology goes
it's crazy to see all these massive theme parks
and attractions um implementing really awesome
technology so far and you know gate master as
well and we're super happy to be partnering with
you guys um you know but all the the apps that
are being implemented for times these are really
helping people as far as customer experience
as well as um big companies are partnering with
things like snow plate and looking at data and
analytics so all of these things really go into
play when we're looking at how do we make the
customer the forefront of what we're doing and
i think that how we fit into the industry is
really just offering um like i said before an
enhanced customer experience we want to give
the guests flexibility and an option to enjoy
the park as well as you know, if they're not
able to attend, then have a pleasant experience
in the future. So, and we can get more into that
and what I mean by that. But yeah, I think that's
kind of how we fit together nicely. Yeah. And,
you know, I know for me, I've been a strong advocate
of refund protection. I think that that is where
you stand as well. You know, what we've seen
over the years, and I just want to jump into
this because I think this is probably like the
What do they call it? Like the elephant in the
room, right? You know, what makes this different
than insurance? Because for years, and we were
probably a little bit ahead of our time, we offered
ticket insurance as a form of refund protection.
And we did see added benefits. And we're going
to talk a little bit about that, too. You know,
the auxiliar revenue. Sorry, I'm at a Valentine's
loss for words. The additional revenue that can
be generated from this, the ways that we can,
you know, for us, it was a way to leverage the
refund policy to protect the attractions with
regards to chargebacks. And I know that maybe
that is just like a. a benefit of it, but it
wasn't the plan for it, right? Because you can
have clearly posted refund policies and you have
people agreeing that these are non -refundable
tickets and or agreeing to protect their investments.
A lot of these families and even friends who
are visiting, anybody who's investing in these
experiences, that is probably the biggest thing
that I see in terms of trends is that these experiences
are going up in price. And so customer service
looks very different today than it did even 10
years ago. I'm of the belief that customer service
works hand in hand with the technology today.
And so what my question is for you is how is
Protect Group working to change the way that
these refund protections work? You know, you're
not you're not insurance. Tell us a little bit
about that. Tell us the difference and and how
that serves the guests. Of course. Yeah. So.
You know, typically an insurance, you have regulations
and you have these terms and conditions that
are hard to meet. And when you are applying for
a refund, if it doesn't specifically meet their
terms, a lot of them don't want to be paid. And,
you know, that's understandable. But at the same
time, we're a refund service. We're not an insurance.
So what we're trying to do is offer these refunds.
And if there is something that doesn't fit in
our terms and conditions, we are hoping to pay
the refund for the customer. We really want.
If the customer is impacted and they're not able
to attend, like you said, it's a big investment.
If you're going to these destination parks and
you're spending thousands of dollars, having
the option for flexibility and also the understanding
of a product that is actually going to tailor
to the customer, having that, what I call it,
the warm and fuzzy feeling of a customer. Knowing
that you can get your refund back if your kid
gets sick, if your flight fails to go to a different
state. It really just changes the whole service.
What I think is amazing is our company has, you
know, 4 .8 out of 5 stars on TrustBuy. Really
just trying to make sure the customer is happy.
So if it doesn't fit, like I said, in our terms
and conditions. we're really going to go beyond
it. Were they not able to come? Was it a serious
issue? Like, is it something that is not covered,
but we're willing to cover anyways, because we
want to make sure the customer is happy. So that
being a service, we're able to go beyond and
we're really able to look at our customer experience
seems amazing. And they're really able to look
at and tailor to the customer. Yeah, I love that.
I love what you said about this being a refund
service, because we're bringing the service back
into refunds. Right. And that is like, I have
so many of our attraction partners that, you
know, in order for them to maintain financial
stability and to have that security, they have
no refund policies, but they also don't have
the, they don't have a way to upgrade for their
customers the way that this is. Cause to me,
this is an upgrade. It's an upgrade to the experience
to be able to protect it. For sure. I mean, it's
an enhancement of their terms and conditions.
I mean, some policies are 48 hours in advance
or a week in advance. But in the event that you're
on the way to the park and you get a flat tire
and you can't attend and your kid is crying in
the back because they got so excited to go. Park
tickets aren't cheap. You've spent $200 to go
and it's a one -day ticket. And with dynamic
pricing with parks now, you might not be able
to attend the next day. There might not be a
transferable ticket. So this gives them an option
to pay a little bit extra to make sure little
Tommy in the back gets to go another day or you
get your money back so you feel comfortable and
you can go do something else when you're feeling
better or whatever the case. But I think, like
you said, it really is an enhancement. And what's
crazy too is parks are not cheap. You know, you're
spending all this money, you know, new roller
coasters and you've got investors and you're
looking at all these different things. So an
extended revenue stream is always a plus. And
it's something that I think that we miss out
on sometimes. But it's a simple, you know, simple
integration and a profit. Yeah, everybody wins.
And I think that that's interesting because when
we launched our insurance years ago, that was
the first question that so many of the attractions
asked, is there a profit share in this? And that
is something that is being offered here that
we didn't have an option for in the past. And
so I love that you're including and that we as
partners are including the attraction in the...
profitability of what, you know, because this
is an area where it's an add -on for their business.
It's an add -on option. We talk all the time
with our partners about strategizing on how we
can create offers for everybody. And to me, this
is an extension of that. And, you know, I'm curious,
you know, could you explain how refund protection
changes the way the guests may perceive risks
of their purchases when they're planning to visit
attractions? And do you have any insights there?
Of course. And like I said, too, it just kind
of depends if it's a destination experience.
So that's going to be something that you're looking
at planning what months or a year ahead. So that's
going to definitely change how the customer perceives
the risk. They're going to look at, okay, I...
I don't know a year from now if I'm going to
be sick. I don't know if my loved one is going
to be okay. I don't know if I lost my job. I
don't know what's going to happen. I have to
take off work. I have to take the kids out of
school. I have to, or even, you know, if it's
just adults who are wanting to go, I have to
plan with my friends. I don't know if the ticket
prices for flights are going to change. Just
so many different factors. And this allows the
customer to say, OK, I know that if in a year
from now something happens, I have the comfortability
of booking my ticket today and securing my purchase.
That I'm going to be OK. Yeah, you know, one
of the things that we saw in the data when we
were looking at it. in the very beginning was
just, you know, everybody talks about dynamic
pricing and their advantages. And that's a whole
other topic of conversation with regards to what
those algorithms do and how they work. But what
we found in the data was that people were more
likely to purchase ahead of time when they could
protect their investments. That did give them
the peace of mind. And I think that that's a
direct impact of being able to know that, you
know, for whatever reason, if I can't make it,
I'm getting the best deal today. But I'm also
protecting that, like you said, with dynamic
pricing, the price. If I can't show up today,
the price could go up tremendously tomorrow,
making that not an option for me. But in this
way, I'm still, you know, treated, you know,
treated fairly, in my opinion. And I think that's
what everybody's trying to go for in the attraction
space is that one, our guests are taken care
of and they're happy and they're exceeding expectations
and we're creating better. customer experiences,
guest satisfaction is going up. But I have another
question for you, if you don't mind. How does
refund protection, from what you've seen, contribute
to building trust and loyalty with guests, especially
in challenging times, like when somebody is in
need of this protection and they have to engage
with you because for whatever reason they cannot
go? Are you finding that people have more loyalty
and trust in the brands that are providing a
service like this oh for sure um if you don't
mind i actually pulled some reviews just because
i love to look at our trust pilot reviews and
see what customers are saying because that's
really how we can you know determine if our product
is successful um i pulled a review it says Alexander,
it was published on the 26th. They said, thank
you for understanding and giving me the refund
with no issues. I'll be a lifetime FlightHub
member now, which FlightHub is a company that
we've worked with a long time. So as we're white
labeled, this is going to sit on your... your
checkout page as something that you're offering.
So if we are offering an experience for a customer
who is seeing difficulties, especially in their
life, if we are showing that compassion and giving
those refunds to these people, they're going
to say, I would love to go back to this park.
They showed me mercy in a time of need. I had
somebody say, thank you for making it so simple
and being so understanding during a stressful
time. I think how we create that trust and create
that customer satisfaction within the product
is being understanding. And our product is super
easy. It's super customer friendly. It sits right
on the checkout page. It's a simple yes or no
opt -in. So when the customers do opt -in, they
get a nice little link in their email with their
booking confirmation. If in the event they have
to cancel, it's super easy. So they can click
on that link, fill out the refund, and then...
get a refund. I was going to ask you what the
deliverable looked like. So you just explained
that, which is awesome because it really is that
easy for the guests. They can click a link and
request their refund. And from what I observed,
at least in our conversations about partnering
and adding this to the purchase path of the much
empathy, I think has gone into understanding,
you know, what those terms should be for people.
Right. Especially, especially, I mean, even still
today, I have friends who have COVID right now.
Right. So, you know, they're not going anywhere.
And if they had been a part of, of some sort
of going to head tickets to Disneyland, I mean,
I took my family this year. I know that was thousands
of dollars. So, you know, understanding that
I can protect that investment that I made should
one of my family members get sick. Because probably
if somebody is suffering from COVID, we probably
all shouldn't go, right? So that definitely puts
a strain on people. And I love that we're able
to provide this as a customer service mechanism
to build trust and to foster goodwill with the
guests who are purchasing and making these big
investments. Because I talk about investment
all the time on this show. I think we cannot
underestimate the amount of sacrifice that many
families make to bring their families to attractions
and to theme parks. There is a big sacrifice
that many are making to do this. Of course, of
course. And I know we talk a lot about like destination
parks and things like that, but even your local
park, I mean, somebody could be an hour away
and it could be an investment for them to get
there. um it's not easy and accessible for everyone
so having a service like this is really just
adding that flexibility which is fantastic um
and what's what's kind of cool i know you said
like i really love the you know the empathy and
things like that and the way our product kind
of works a little bit further as far as the difference
between an insurance and not is if in the event
you know they can't attend 60 days after they're
still able to apply for a refund wow Well, that's
cool. Yeah. So obviously like in a tragic situation,
you're not thinking about your refund on your
tickets, but later on you can go back. Are you
getting feedback? I'm not getting feedback. Okay.
But you know, hopefully that's not broadcasting.
If you're hearing anything, is it better now?
Yes, it is. But yeah, so. What's great is, like
I said, if you're in a tragic situation, you're
not going to first think of, I need my refund.
But you're going to go back and say, okay, I
selected this service. I was going through a
hard time. This is what happened. We're still
happy to give the refund. If you didn't attend
the event, we're extremely happy. Right. And
I don't mean to interrupt, but I think that's
where balancing the technology with the human
touch comes in. Right? You know, so many parks
worry, at least the feedback that I've received
is that, you know, worry that automation, AI
and all of these different technologies are going
to remove the human touch from the experience.
But I think ultimately a service like this brings
the human touch back into some degree. Yeah,
we're automating it on the shopping cart experience.
So as they go through their purchase path and
they add this protection or this service to whatever
they purchased in there. in their cart. We are
adding that element of human touch in the event
that something tragic happens. And what I'd love
for you to maybe speak on real quick is, you
know, not only that adding that human touch,
but you know, how do you deal with the customers?
You know, what is the experience from the point
that they decide that for whatever life situation
they need a refund and they contact the service
you know what what what's the process that the
customer goes through and you know how they get
to the end outcome you know would you mind just
explaining a little bit of that yeah of course
so um like i said it's a simple application online
uh we do have an ai auto approval system so if
it is everything fits in the terms and conditions
it's automatically approved if in the event it's
not automatically approved it goes to our customer
experience team where they can really look into
detail of why it wasn't automatically approved
um if things are not you know explained well
enough in the application they're going to reach
out and figure out why but our average time frame
is about four hours and getting back to somebody
and a response so which is incredibly quick with
most other products you're looking at weeks two
weeks sometimes you know not even a response
so right um yeah i love that i love that that's
quick and that it makes it easy for them And,
you know, and as far as the attraction goes,
how do they deal with it? What is the most common
way that they're dealing with it? Is it that
they just tell them to look for that email? You
know, is there an easy, I mean, I know that's
probably a loaded question, but is there a quick
and easy way that they deal with that on their
side? It's pretty straightforward, right? Yeah,
it's pretty straightforward. So if somebody calls
and say, hey, I selected, you know, refund protection,
all they need to do is let them know. I think
they are getting feedback because I think I got
a comment saying we're getting feedback. Yeah.
Apologize for that, guys. Yeah, I'm sorry, guys.
I'm trying to figure out why we talk. um but
yeah so they just need to direct the customer
to the email and say you just need to apply there
and the customer experience team will will be
with you that way um so it's really just how
the park is training their employees to react
to the situation so all it is is just a simple
if you've purchased ticket protection it'll be
in the link in the email and you'll fill out
the form there And so you think it can really
just fold right into their current processes
real easy. Just a matter of referring them over
to you. Well, I think that's great, you know,
and, and, and I know I've taken up a lot of your
time and I really appreciate it. I try to keep
this show to just 20 minutes or just a bit over.
So if you don't mind me asking one more question
and, you know, I'm curious if we're looking ahead,
you know, what do you see the next big thing?
happening in theme parks in the attraction industry,
particularly in the realm of customer service,
ancillary revenue, that's the word I was looking
for, and technology. You know, a big thing that
I've been seeing is the multiple payment options,
which I think is fantastic, especially as far
as customer experience and inclusivity. You're
allowing people who wouldn't have been able to
go to a park before do a payment plan. And, you
know, we would still fit in with that payment
plan. So if they purchased the protection, it
could sit in there as well. So I think that's
probably the biggest innovation I've seen as
far as customer experience in the industry. And
I think it's great. I mean, it's allowing more
and more people to go to these fantastic parks
and enjoying the experience. Yeah, I 100 % agree.
And, you know, one of the things that we found.
years ago when we added payment plans just that
you know just adding the ability to include or
adding the ability to to buy let's say a season
pass or a ticket on a payment plan and we have
we have some pretty flexible options here at
gate master so and it all just depends on the
strategy that the attraction has but one of the
things that we found in the data was that when
you have these offers, it goes back to having
something for everybody. But when you have these
offers, my concern early on was, well, why would
we want season pass holders to now pay on a payment
plan when we were getting their money on payment
before? But what we found in the data, which
really opened my eyes, was that when you have
options like this, you might be attracting a
different demographic of customers. Who might
otherwise not purchase in this case, maybe they
wouldn't purchase because they they were afraid
of the investment not being protected. But in
addition to that, you know, giving people what
they want. I mean, so much of what we talk about,
I talk about on this show and so much of what
we talk about with our attraction partners is
how you have to have as many offers as possible
and as many add ons. to accommodate all the different
types of people that will be visiting these attractions
and having these experiences. So I really want
to thank you for coming on the show. I am sorry
to everybody if you're getting feedback. Maybe
that just means the universe is saying I got
to have Morgan back here soon and get Morgan
back on this show soon because I think this is
a really important topic. I'm super grateful
to you for coming on here on this Valentine's
Day and sharing this. protection service with
people you know show let's show the guests some
love by allowing them to protect these investments
and we at gate master here are super excited
to be collaborating with all of you on your team
in being able to provide uh this service within
our purchase path here for this next season so
we're super excited about that and um morgan
any last words how can people find you So you
can find me through LinkedIn easiest. I'm on
all the time. I love to talk about refund protection,
what we do and how we're different. And then
if you would like to email me, it's just Morgan
at protect group .com. Nice and easy, but Sandra,
thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate
it. I am. I love the topic. I love the industry.
I could go on for days about it. So 20 minutes
is a great amount of time. But, you know, I would
have to come on anytime. Yeah, of course. I would
love to have you back. Plus, you know, I think
there's there's probably tons more we could be
talking about. I know you and I share a ton of
interests, too. And, you know, I really I really
appreciate you coming on. Talk to our audience.
You know, one of the things that I tell everyone
on this show is I, you know, I if I don't have
the answers, I'm going to try and find the people
who do. And you are one of those people that
has an answer and a solution to maybe some of
the situations, unique situations that parks
are bumping up against. So I appreciate you being
here with me today and sharing your knowledge
with everyone on that is watching this live show.
So if you are watching this live show on replay,
I just ask that you show Morgan some love. Hashtag
replay. Give us a like. Give us a heart. I mean,
it's Valentine's Day. And for all of you that
are looking for more information about how you
can better serve your guests, if you want to
be a guest on this show, I'd love to have you
fill out this, be a guest on the show. You can
be a guest just like Morgan and share your information.
You know, I have my particular lane of expertise,
but I've been serving parks for over 20 something
years. And I know that. You know, there's a lot
of information out there and there's a lot of
people who could benefit from the information
that you could share. So if you would like to
share those ideas on this show, just like Morgan
did. And also, again, Morgan, thank you so much,
because I love that. I love that it's Valentine's
Day and that you are my guest and that you could
be here to share that information. So we're going
to sign off for today. But if if if you have
any follow up questions, you know how to get
a hold of Morgan. You also know how to. Leave
us a comment or drop us a DM. I mean, we're both
on here. And I know that we both share an interest
and are aligned with regards to being able to
help attractions massively succeed. So whatever
we can do to help you there. Thank you again,
Morgan. Happy Valentine's Day. Happy Valentine's
Day to everybody out there watching. And we will
talk to you soon. Take care.