WEBVTT

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Welcome to the Live with Sondra podcast where

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we dive deep into business, tech, and entrepreneurship.

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Hosted by me, Sondra Shannon, CEO of GateMaster

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Technology. Each show, we explore the latest

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trends in ticketing attractions and guest experience,

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helping you stay ahead of the curve in this ever

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-evolving world of attractions and events. Whether

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you're an industry expert or just getting started,

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this show has insights to inspire and empower

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you. Today's episode is sponsored by GateMaster

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Technology, your trusted partner for ticketing

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and attraction management solutions. Let's get

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started with the show. Alright guys, welcome

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to the Live with Sondra show. I'm your host,

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Sondra Shannon, CEO of GateMaster Technology,

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and I'm very excited about today's guest. We're

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going to be talking about live experience data

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and insights. to audience impact. So this is

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going to be a fun conversation because as you

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guys know, I love to talk data and I love to

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talk entertainment. I love to talk shows, live

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entertainment. And before I mention who today's

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guest is, let me just start with a quick word

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from our sponsor. This episode is brought to

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you by GateMaster Technology, your partner in

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powerful, flexible, and reliable online ticketing.

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GateMaster Technologies. online ticketing platform

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is built for attractions and entertainment venues

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that want more control, better guest experience,

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and real -time insights, all without the headache

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of outdated systems or clunky integrations. With

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GateMaster, you get seamless online mobile ticket

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sales, live capacity and attendance tracking,

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easy to manage refunds, reschedules, and upgrades,

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and it is integrated with our point -of -sale

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and access control systems so your guests can

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enjoy a smooth experience from purchase to entry.

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And here's what's the best part. If your current

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ticket provider isn't cutting it, we will make

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that switch easy for you. GateMaster's competitive

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replacement program makes it easy and affordable

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to upgrade. We'll help you migrate your data.

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train your team, and get you up and running fast.

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No long -term contracts, no surprises, just better

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service, better tech, and better support. If

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you're ready to take your ticketing to the next

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level, visit GateMaster .com to learn more. GateMaster

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Technology, smart ticketing starts here. So let's

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get back to the show. Today's guest, Cody Lassen,

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is... a Tony Award -winning producer, and the

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force behind Cody Lassen and Associates. With

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a Grammy nomination and impressive portfolio

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spanning theater, film, and music, my kids are

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going to love this show. You guys know my kids

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are in theater. Cody has helped shape some of

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the most successful live productions of the past

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decade, collectively grossing over... Ooh, this

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is a big number. His production boasts a 42 .3

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% recoupment rate, more than double the industry

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average, and providing that creative vision backed

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by data can drive serious results. Cody is passionate

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about the magic of live entertainment. He literally

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can't live without it. Cody brings a rare blend

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of artistic sensibility and business strategy.

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On this episode of Live with Sondra, he'll share

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how meaningful audience insights are transforming

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the way stories are told and sold on stage. So

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please help me welcome today's guest, Cody, to

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the show. Cody, thank you for being here. Happy

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to be here. Thanks for having me. Of course.

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How was that bio? Was that okay? Did we miss

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anything? You got it. You should be my publicist.

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I'll hire you. I mean, I looked at that number,

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that $900 million number. I can't remember the

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exact number. It's like, wow, what an incredible

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accomplishment. Yeah, you know, I think even

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within the entertainment industry, people don't

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quite understand that Broadway is a $4 billion

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a year industry. And when something hits in our

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world, it hits unlike. a film or tv show ever

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can because it can run for decades much much

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like uh themed entertainment right this isn't

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an opening weekend of a movie it's something

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can run for for decades and decades yeah i know

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it's amazing i mean i just saw so i've seen two

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shows recently uh one on broadway i saw i finally

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got to see book of mormon nice i knew the music

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well because it's one of my son's favorite and

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and i don't know if i if i if you know this about

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me but all three of my kids are in live theater.

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They're live actors. Yeah, so the two of them

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are getting ready to do a show in a couple of

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weeks that's opening Ride the Cyclone here. Oh,

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I know the show well, yeah. With the Mile High

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Youth Theater. So they're doing the teen version.

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So I'm very excited about that. And both my daughter

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and son are in it, which is just wild to me.

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How exciting. And by some strange coincidence,

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my... My closest friend originated one of those

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roles off -Broadway when it played New York many

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years ago. Wow! That's amazing. I'm really excited

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for this show. I really love the... There's so

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many dimensions to it. Yeah, it's fun. It's quirky.

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Yeah, right. I'm super excited about it. I've

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been trying not to get spoilers because I have

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not seen it live. But yeah, I got to see... Book

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of Mormon this year, and one thing that I'm really

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excited about, I got to see Phantom of the Opera

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in London on the West End. Very nice. His Majesty's

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Theatre. That was... It's about to come back

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to Broadway. It closed not that long ago, and

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it's now being, still with Andrew Lloyd Webber

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in charge, but it's being reconceived as an immersive

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walkthrough experience instead of a traditional

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sit in your seat and passively receive it kind

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of show. Wow. My daughter was telling me about,

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I mean, that was just incredible to see in London.

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And yeah, the chandelier, I don't want to spoil

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it for anybody, but that was so cool. I mean,

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we even left going like Disney level immersiveness,

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right? Sure. Yeah. And that's, you know, technology

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that's now 30 years old. So imagine this new

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version they're building that, you know, is being

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built with 2025 technology. Wow. Well, that's

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pretty cool. Well, I, uh, I'm excited to talk

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to you. I know this is going to be a great show,

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first of all, because I've learned so much about

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theater as a theater mom. I myself have never,

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I don't have the, I don't have the ability to

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sing. That's what's always held me back. But

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also, um, I do talk about it on stage. Like I'm

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scared to death still to be on stages like this,

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this live show. Was a labor of love because my

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team literally had to push me out there and it

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did take a lot of work. And as you know, working

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in theater, you know, there's a lot of training

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that goes to doing even just something like this.

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But the live theater is a whole other level,

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in my opinion, of what you do. And I watch my

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kids work so hard. And so, like you said, in

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terms of. of entertainment it's something that

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runs for a very long time and four billion dollars

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is i did not know that number on broadway but

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that is uh that that is huge oh yeah it's you

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know a major and that four billion is just broadway

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shows and broadway tours and if you then you

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know include non -profit theaters and community

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theaters and regional theaters Truly a huge economic

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force, but because it's kind of distributed all

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over, I think most people don't quite realize

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the revenue that it brings in. In New York, for

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instance, it's about a 10 times multiplier. So

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for every $100 spent on a ticket, there's people

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going to restaurants, staying at hotels, buying

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souvenirs, all in the area. And that's not just

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Broadway, but even local regional theaters. Most

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people have a drink before the show or have dinner

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after the show. It can be really kind of a nice

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way to lift up an entire community in terms of

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all the other businesses and then think of the

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companies who build the sets and who rent the

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lights and the web of that ecosystem goes pretty

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deep. Yeah, it's a major economy when you look

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at it from that perspective, which is interesting

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because we're going to be talking about data

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and revenue management for these live experiences

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today. And so I have a question for you if you

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don't mind me jumping into some questions. Go

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for it. As a producer, how do you leverage customer

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data to inform your marketing and revenue management

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strategies for a live production? This will probably

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blow your mind. But as a producer, if I'm producing

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a show on Broadway, I have zero access to my

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customer data. I don't know who they are. I don't

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know. You know, we can pixel people and track

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kind of where they came from. But the ticketing

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providers. sure retain that data and will only

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share it with me in the aggregate and only if

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i pay for it so i don't have names or email addresses

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of the people buying tickets to shows that i'm

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i'm shepherding and producing um which is just

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mind -boggling so unfortunately we don't get

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to use data in a way that in any other industry

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you would be able to you know develop relationships

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with your audience and kind of learn about them

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and do lookalike, you know, modeling and targeting.

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And so the ticketing companies will do that,

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again, for a fee. But a big part of my job as

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a producer is figuring out how do I try to figure

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out who these consumers are, right? So, you know,

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you can, you know, have email QR codes to sign

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up in the theater to enter a drawing or, you

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know, there's kind of ways we can encourage people

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to proactively tell us who they are, but we don't.

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As producers, we don't get access to that raw

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data, which is frustrating. Yeah, I bet. And

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this is a shameless plug. All customers get access

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to their customer data because it is such an

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important part of understanding who your audience

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is. Well, with that in mind, you know, what is

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one key piece of data that you find most actionable,

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understanding that you don't have access to that

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when trying to optimize ticket sales or audience

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engagement? I mean, for me, the the kpi that

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i i live and die by and breathe like oxygen is

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rev pass which is revenue per available seat

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um which is basically combining average ticket

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price with percent capacity um so it's just it's

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a simple calculation it's the seats that are

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available to be sold by the public for a given

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performance or a given period of time so you're

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removing any seat kills right if we have critics

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or press in there those tickets were never on

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sale to the public sometimes you have to remove

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a few seats to put in an audio booth so you take

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those out and then you just take the total gross

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for that performance or period of time and divide

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it by the seats available um and and we stole

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this from the hospitality industry where in the

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hotel business revenue for available room is

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the key thing in the airline business revenue

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for available flight file i think it's called

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um but that that's kind of the one kpi that I

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love because it instantly tells you how a show

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is doing versus, you know, you can have a very

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high average ticket price, which I think a lot

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of people measure show success by that. And I

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always tell people, listen, if that's your measure

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of success, I can find one sucker to buy a five

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thousand dollar ticket and your average ticket

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price will shoot through the roof, but you'll

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still have a half empty theater. So that's the

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one I love that combines both capacity and ticket

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pricing. Yeah, I do love that. It's interesting

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because I forgot to mention I got to see. So

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we bought tickets like a last minute, like two

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hours before that on Broadway where you could

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go get the tickets. I saw Alicia Keys' Hell's

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Kitchen. Nice. This year, which was also, I mean,

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I had my daughter with me. We were just falling

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our eyes out. But it's interesting because I

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didn't think about those ticket sales that are

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happening right down to the very last minute.

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Oh, yeah. I mean, you know, that's clearly like

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dynamic pricing. You know, listen, there's an

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Arab exclusivity that some of these Broadway

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shows are, you know, selling eight, nine thousand

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dollar tickets each, like the big hit shows.

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Sure. And I always tell people that, you know,

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two things. I'll go back to the hotel industry

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for a minute here. It's the same way that if

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you want a hotel at the last minute on a popular

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week in New York City, you're going to pay a

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lot for that. If you can plan ahead of time and

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be a little flexible, you're going to pay a lot

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less. And New York City has the Four Seasons,

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and we also have the Holiday Inn Express. And

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they both provide the same service, a bed and

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a place to sleep, but two different levels. But

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I like to remind people that dynamic ticket pricing

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goes both ways. So I want to maximize my revenue.

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And if the market is telling us tickets are $500,

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I'd rather that money go to the show and all

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the people who made it happen versus a ticket

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reseller, and they'll just keep that. But then

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on the flip side, like your situation, if two

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hours before a curtain, I'm sitting at a bunch

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of unsold inventory, I would much rather get

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$20 for that ticket than that empty seat, than

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a seat bringing us zero revenue. So it's a risky

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strategy, but a strategy I share with a lot of

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friends visiting from out of town is you can't.

00:13:58.860 --> 00:14:00.320
get the ticket to the thing you really want to

00:14:00.320 --> 00:14:03.179
see. Sometimes an hour or two before a curtain,

00:14:03.240 --> 00:14:05.519
you'd be surprised that even the hot sold out

00:14:05.519 --> 00:14:08.220
show has some emergency or VIP tickets that didn't

00:14:08.220 --> 00:14:09.860
get used that all of a sudden become available.

00:14:10.159 --> 00:14:16.899
Yeah, we got the balcony seat. Yeah, it was amazing.

00:14:17.200 --> 00:14:19.080
My daughter was just on cloud nine. It was her

00:14:19.080 --> 00:14:21.080
birthday. It was in January. We were there for

00:14:21.080 --> 00:14:25.399
Intix. I go to Intix almost every other year.

00:14:25.500 --> 00:14:28.929
I try to go every year. And really that's because

00:14:28.929 --> 00:14:32.049
I'm a nerd. There's no reason to. I'm stuck with

00:14:32.049 --> 00:14:33.850
the ticketing provider that the theater tells

00:14:33.850 --> 00:14:35.909
me I have to use. I have very little access to

00:14:35.909 --> 00:14:38.590
it, but I'm a ticketing geek. So I'm a big fan

00:14:38.590 --> 00:14:40.909
of Intix. I mean, I'm a big fan of Intix too,

00:14:40.970 --> 00:14:45.350
because I think there's so much that we can learn

00:14:45.350 --> 00:14:49.639
as a community on how to best serve. those who

00:14:49.639 --> 00:14:53.120
are attending these events, be it on Broadway

00:14:53.120 --> 00:14:55.460
or even if we're just talking attractions, which

00:14:55.460 --> 00:14:59.440
is our background. And I love the, you know,

00:14:59.480 --> 00:15:02.320
I'll say this. I've been in ticketing since I

00:15:02.320 --> 00:15:06.940
started with Gate Master in 2001. So a very long

00:15:06.940 --> 00:15:09.600
time I've been doing ticketing. And for many

00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:11.840
years, you might as well have been a pariah,

00:15:11.879 --> 00:15:14.440
right? Like a piranha or something, you know,

00:15:14.440 --> 00:15:16.240
people would be like, you're in ticketing and

00:15:16.240 --> 00:15:19.480
they'd run the other way, right? Because, you

00:15:19.480 --> 00:15:21.899
know, there were negative things that were going

00:15:21.899 --> 00:15:24.980
on in the ticketing world. And I think that what's

00:15:24.980 --> 00:15:27.899
great about Intix is we're reshaping that. And

00:15:27.899 --> 00:15:30.259
I love just networking with colleagues in different

00:15:30.259 --> 00:15:34.320
industries that on the surface seem like, well,

00:15:34.399 --> 00:15:36.940
they're not related. But what I've learned from

00:15:36.940 --> 00:15:39.379
colleagues who work in ticketing and professional

00:15:39.379 --> 00:15:42.539
sports and in attractions and in museums and

00:15:42.539 --> 00:15:44.580
zoos and aquariums, like at the end of the day,

00:15:44.600 --> 00:15:47.879
we're all selling. perishable inventory. And

00:15:47.879 --> 00:15:50.220
so I love stealing ideas from other industries

00:15:50.220 --> 00:15:51.960
and think, well, wait a minute, if we tweak that

00:15:51.960 --> 00:15:53.980
a little bit, I can do what you do in the museum

00:15:53.980 --> 00:15:56.120
world and our world. And I think vice versa.

00:15:56.139 --> 00:15:59.620
So that's really why I keep going is just that

00:15:59.620 --> 00:16:01.899
networking with folks who are selling perishable

00:16:01.899 --> 00:16:04.480
inventory, really. A hundred percent. And I think

00:16:04.480 --> 00:16:06.519
it's important to see how other people are doing

00:16:06.519 --> 00:16:08.179
it. And when they're doing something really well,

00:16:08.299 --> 00:16:11.759
I'm a big fan of that kind of like mimic and

00:16:11.759 --> 00:16:14.470
mastering it. And you're not going to get that

00:16:14.470 --> 00:16:16.149
if you're not talking to other people who are

00:16:16.149 --> 00:16:18.850
doing it and bumping against different challenges

00:16:18.850 --> 00:16:21.750
than what you're having. Right. That's the kind

00:16:21.750 --> 00:16:24.590
of learning I love is, you know, oh, I never

00:16:24.590 --> 00:16:26.450
thought of that. That didn't occur to me. Or,

00:16:26.450 --> 00:16:29.049
you know, I didn't know you could do that with

00:16:29.049 --> 00:16:31.070
that with that ticketing system. Great. Can you

00:16:31.070 --> 00:16:33.409
can you show me how that works? Yeah, that's

00:16:33.409 --> 00:16:36.159
great. My daughter was an intern this year. at

00:16:36.159 --> 00:16:38.559
Intix, which was nice. Oh, very nice. A nice

00:16:38.559 --> 00:16:40.700
experience for her. Trying to get her in the

00:16:40.700 --> 00:16:42.720
business. She's also the one that I was telling

00:16:42.720 --> 00:16:44.820
you was going to be on the show here with Ride

00:16:44.820 --> 00:16:50.399
the Cyclone. She's playing, what's the main gal

00:16:50.399 --> 00:16:52.860
that's on the stage? There's not a real main

00:16:52.860 --> 00:16:55.460
part, but why can't I think of the character's

00:16:55.460 --> 00:16:58.159
name right now? I'm not forgetting all the characters.

00:16:58.299 --> 00:17:00.559
I remember the show well, but I don't remember

00:17:00.559 --> 00:17:03.679
any of the character names. Ocean. Yes. She played

00:17:03.679 --> 00:17:06.460
Ocean. Nice. She's getting her Britney Spears

00:17:06.460 --> 00:17:10.259
down right now. I'd like to point out to parents

00:17:10.259 --> 00:17:12.880
of kids who are getting into theater, more on

00:17:12.880 --> 00:17:16.019
the performing side, where most parents very

00:17:16.019 --> 00:17:19.819
smartly say have a backup career. But I tell

00:17:19.819 --> 00:17:21.660
people the backup career should still be in theater.

00:17:21.880 --> 00:17:24.480
What if you want to be a writer or a dancer or

00:17:24.480 --> 00:17:26.900
a singer? Maybe your backup career is doing ticketing

00:17:26.900 --> 00:17:30.390
for theater. being an accountant for a theatrical

00:17:30.390 --> 00:17:32.690
company or doing marketing or press. But like,

00:17:32.690 --> 00:17:35.109
if you love the thing, have your backup still

00:17:35.109 --> 00:17:37.490
be in that industry. Yeah. Oh, I'll tell you.

00:17:37.509 --> 00:17:40.950
I sat across from a mom the other day or on one

00:17:40.950 --> 00:17:44.250
of the last shows. I shouldn't say the other

00:17:44.250 --> 00:17:46.890
day. It was months ago. And she said to me, she

00:17:46.890 --> 00:17:49.849
said, I keep telling my daughter to have a backup

00:17:49.849 --> 00:17:52.049
plan. This isn't going to work out. It's too

00:17:52.049 --> 00:17:54.839
risky. And I'm like, wow. you ever tell your

00:17:54.839 --> 00:17:57.140
kid that i would never tell my kid that i'm gonna

00:17:57.140 --> 00:17:59.359
let the world tell them where they've got to

00:17:59.359 --> 00:18:02.460
go and i 100 agree with you cody thank you so

00:18:02.460 --> 00:18:06.000
much because my daughter is uh one of the co

00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:08.279
-producers of this show and she's been working

00:18:08.279 --> 00:18:10.460
in marketing and i tell her all the time i'm

00:18:10.460 --> 00:18:13.200
like somebody's gonna market these shows yeah

00:18:13.200 --> 00:18:17.319
and and that is as much of a challenge as creating

00:18:17.319 --> 00:18:20.079
the show right you can have the best musical

00:18:20.079 --> 00:18:22.559
on broadway that has ever existed but if you're

00:18:22.559 --> 00:18:25.740
not marketing it and discovering who your audience

00:18:25.740 --> 00:18:27.920
is, how to reach them cost effectively, how to

00:18:27.920 --> 00:18:29.700
talk to them in a way that gets them to click

00:18:29.700 --> 00:18:32.559
the buy now button. That's half the battle. I

00:18:32.559 --> 00:18:36.099
think a lot of people wrongly or naively assume

00:18:36.099 --> 00:18:39.400
if you just build a good thing, people will come.

00:18:39.539 --> 00:18:42.519
Well, that doesn't always happen. The hard work

00:18:42.519 --> 00:18:44.759
starts after you've built the thing. Yeah. Well,

00:18:44.819 --> 00:18:48.420
you know, one of my favorite shows is You're

00:18:48.420 --> 00:18:52.509
in Town. Sure. And I think it's back on Broadway

00:18:52.509 --> 00:18:54.970
right now, right? Yeah, it's coming off -Broadway

00:18:54.970 --> 00:18:57.250
to City Center this season. Off -Broadway. Yeah,

00:18:57.369 --> 00:18:59.769
I knew it was going to be in New York. I would

00:18:59.769 --> 00:19:01.630
love to see it. I've only seen the kids' version

00:19:01.630 --> 00:19:06.890
of it. And my daughter also has played Hope in

00:19:06.890 --> 00:19:09.630
that. But what I think is interesting about the

00:19:09.630 --> 00:19:14.069
Urinetown story, because it came out right before,

00:19:14.190 --> 00:19:17.269
what, a couple months before 9 -11. Oh, that's

00:19:17.269 --> 00:19:20.089
right. I forgot about that. Yeah, it's such a

00:19:20.089 --> 00:19:24.130
great show, but it had so much, there was so

00:19:24.130 --> 00:19:27.029
much noise that it had to compete with in order

00:19:27.029 --> 00:19:31.089
to really take off. So it's one that a lot of

00:19:31.089 --> 00:19:33.680
people don't know about. But I love the music.

00:19:33.799 --> 00:19:35.940
I love this. I just think it's an incredible

00:19:35.940 --> 00:19:39.859
show. I love the music. But, you know, kind of

00:19:39.859 --> 00:19:42.400
to your point, like you have to be able to market

00:19:42.400 --> 00:19:44.779
it. And today, you know, maybe we're not dealing

00:19:44.779 --> 00:19:47.819
with something of that, you know, of that because

00:19:47.819 --> 00:19:49.880
that was tragic and that took a lot of people's

00:19:49.880 --> 00:19:52.279
attention. So it took away from a production

00:19:52.279 --> 00:19:57.289
like that. But what I love about. What you just

00:19:57.289 --> 00:20:00.509
said is it is difficult to market. You do have

00:20:00.509 --> 00:20:03.130
to tell people that it has to happen and you

00:20:03.130 --> 00:20:05.529
have to be on top of that. You have to let people

00:20:05.529 --> 00:20:10.069
know that you're there. And today, maybe they're

00:20:10.069 --> 00:20:12.150
not dealing with that, but they are dealing with

00:20:12.150 --> 00:20:17.750
all the other noise. Yeah. And I think a lot

00:20:17.750 --> 00:20:20.589
of people just think of the competitive set.

00:20:20.710 --> 00:20:22.329
So if we're using the Broadway musical as an

00:20:22.329 --> 00:20:24.329
example, what are the other Broadway musicals

00:20:24.329 --> 00:20:26.500
people might... spend their money on when in

00:20:26.500 --> 00:20:30.319
reality really what we're fighting for is entertainment

00:20:30.319 --> 00:20:33.460
dollars right somebody could see a musical they

00:20:33.460 --> 00:20:35.420
could go see a football game they could buy a

00:20:35.420 --> 00:20:38.819
new you know flat screen tv for their house um

00:20:38.819 --> 00:20:41.880
so we're not only looking you know at other shows

00:20:41.880 --> 00:20:44.220
and how do we win that that audience member instead

00:20:44.220 --> 00:20:46.160
of them seeing the other show it's people have

00:20:46.160 --> 00:20:48.859
x amount of dollars and x amount of minutes in

00:20:48.859 --> 00:20:51.500
their year that they can you know spend on an

00:20:51.500 --> 00:20:53.740
entertainment it's how do we how do we somehow

00:20:53.740 --> 00:20:56.579
get into that conversation early on? Um, but

00:20:56.579 --> 00:20:59.259
again, it's theme parks, it's, it's museums.

00:20:59.420 --> 00:21:01.519
It's, you know, we're, we're competing with entertainment

00:21:01.519 --> 00:21:04.380
and leisure in general. Yeah. So you gotta, you

00:21:04.380 --> 00:21:06.319
gotta, you gotta be out there marketing. We've

00:21:06.319 --> 00:21:07.980
had a lot of people who've talked about marketing

00:21:07.980 --> 00:21:12.140
on the show and even, um, you know, uh, I've

00:21:12.140 --> 00:21:15.299
done a lot of marketing training myself and one

00:21:15.299 --> 00:21:18.720
in particular that I really love it. Talk. They,

00:21:18.839 --> 00:21:21.119
they teach you a lot about how you just gotta

00:21:21.119 --> 00:21:23.789
be. out there that's actually how I started this

00:21:23.789 --> 00:21:27.490
show was was I was doing a marketing training

00:21:27.490 --> 00:21:31.809
and the the team that was teaching us just said

00:21:31.809 --> 00:21:33.769
you've got to be everywhere and the only way

00:21:33.769 --> 00:21:36.450
we could think about it was and and granted it

00:21:36.450 --> 00:21:39.730
it served many purposes for us it helped get

00:21:39.730 --> 00:21:41.930
known because you've got to get known just like

00:21:41.930 --> 00:21:45.589
a show's got to get known but also We knew that

00:21:45.589 --> 00:21:48.329
there was information that attractions and live

00:21:48.329 --> 00:21:51.049
events and anybody in this industry needed to

00:21:51.049 --> 00:21:53.650
get from guests like yourself, like experts who

00:21:53.650 --> 00:21:56.130
are doing the work, who understand these systems.

00:21:56.190 --> 00:21:59.190
You mentioned learning at Intix. You know, there

00:21:59.190 --> 00:22:01.289
are a lot of operators that don't get to attend

00:22:01.289 --> 00:22:04.650
these conferences where they can learn, but they

00:22:04.650 --> 00:22:07.170
can sit down and watch a show and connect with

00:22:07.170 --> 00:22:09.390
somebody like you who's teaching them this, which

00:22:09.390 --> 00:22:13.130
brings me to ticketing and scaling for. For the

00:22:13.130 --> 00:22:15.670
productions that you're working on, you know,

00:22:15.670 --> 00:22:21.049
given your experience with Broadway, given your

00:22:21.049 --> 00:22:22.930
experience with Broadway transfers to scaling

00:22:22.930 --> 00:22:26.049
productions. Right. What are the primary ticketing

00:22:26.049 --> 00:22:29.650
considerations when moving from a smaller venue

00:22:29.650 --> 00:22:32.670
to a larger one? Because I know like with the

00:22:32.670 --> 00:22:35.130
and I'm sorry, though, with a mile high. youth

00:22:35.130 --> 00:22:37.549
theater that the kids go to i mean it's a smaller

00:22:37.549 --> 00:22:41.390
one i mean each it's maybe 250 people in the

00:22:41.390 --> 00:22:47.829
audience which is still to me right but you know

00:22:47.829 --> 00:22:49.549
what are the differences that might have to be

00:22:49.549 --> 00:22:53.869
considered uh i mean listen i would always prefer

00:22:53.869 --> 00:22:56.470
to put a show in a theater that's slightly too

00:22:56.470 --> 00:23:00.559
small um audience capacity wise um just to build

00:23:00.559 --> 00:23:03.339
up that artificial demand right if you have 250

00:23:03.339 --> 00:23:05.279
tickets to sell you're probably going to have

00:23:05.279 --> 00:23:08.759
a higher average ticket price and a higher occupancy

00:23:08.759 --> 00:23:11.220
just because there's fewer tickets to you know

00:23:11.220 --> 00:23:13.640
be sold and then once you become the hot sold

00:23:13.640 --> 00:23:16.579
out show nobody can get a ticket to um that opens

00:23:16.579 --> 00:23:18.960
up a lot of doors certainly in terms of revenue

00:23:18.960 --> 00:23:20.799
and yield management that means you're you're

00:23:20.799 --> 00:23:22.880
raising your prices you're probably slowing down

00:23:22.880 --> 00:23:25.740
or turning off discounts completely um but at

00:23:25.740 --> 00:23:28.589
some point a show grows and and you can't sustained

00:23:28.589 --> 00:23:31.450
being in a 250 seat house or the upside is is

00:23:31.450 --> 00:23:34.349
you know alluring and you want to go into a bigger

00:23:34.349 --> 00:23:38.789
house um and so what i like to do and my my colleagues

00:23:38.789 --> 00:23:41.710
on the ticketing side hate me for is um you know

00:23:41.710 --> 00:23:43.970
when we scale a house meaning if you have a broadway

00:23:43.970 --> 00:23:45.930
house with let's say you know a thousand seats

00:23:45.930 --> 00:23:48.829
in it traditionally you might have five or six

00:23:48.829 --> 00:23:51.829
pricing levels right your kind of center front

00:23:51.829 --> 00:23:53.690
orchestra is going to be one your sides will

00:23:53.690 --> 00:23:55.710
be a little cheaper the back orchestra is going

00:23:55.710 --> 00:23:59.140
to be cheaper I want the ability, and I sometimes

00:23:59.140 --> 00:24:01.660
get it and I sometimes don't, to have every individual

00:24:01.660 --> 00:24:04.980
seat be its own pricing zone. So we can literally

00:24:04.980 --> 00:24:09.680
look at a heat map and just change prices as

00:24:09.680 --> 00:24:11.799
we see fit and not be locked into these kind

00:24:11.799 --> 00:24:15.319
of artificial five zones that were drawn on the

00:24:15.319 --> 00:24:17.500
seating chart in the ticketing system probably

00:24:17.500 --> 00:24:19.880
30 years ago. And I'm sure it made sense at the

00:24:19.880 --> 00:24:23.420
time. but there's there's sometimes just weirdness

00:24:23.420 --> 00:24:25.539
that happens in ticket sales right every once

00:24:25.539 --> 00:24:27.380
in a while i'll look at a heat map and say well

00:24:27.380 --> 00:24:29.819
that's weird why is this little bubble that's

00:24:29.819 --> 00:24:32.519
not kind of prime seating really in demand and

00:24:32.519 --> 00:24:34.619
selling quickly i i don't know why that is but

00:24:34.619 --> 00:24:37.319
there's there's a opportunity to you know raise

00:24:37.319 --> 00:24:39.539
our yield there a little bit and raise that and

00:24:39.539 --> 00:24:41.839
then vice versa you know sometimes what i think

00:24:41.839 --> 00:24:43.700
are good seats the public for whatever reason

00:24:43.700 --> 00:24:45.980
just isn't touching and now i want to be able

00:24:45.980 --> 00:24:49.000
to have the ability to either just overtly lower

00:24:49.000 --> 00:24:52.339
the price or do some more undercover discounting

00:24:52.339 --> 00:24:55.700
to kind of move those seats. So I love to have

00:24:55.700 --> 00:24:59.180
granular ability to price. I don't always get

00:24:59.180 --> 00:25:02.640
it, but that's my wish. Yeah, that's pretty cool.

00:25:02.839 --> 00:25:05.279
And I wonder, which kind of brings me to my next

00:25:05.279 --> 00:25:07.500
question, when we're looking at attracting diverse

00:25:07.500 --> 00:25:10.440
audiences, do you see that happening through

00:25:10.440 --> 00:25:14.359
these different price points that you have? I

00:25:14.359 --> 00:25:15.819
mean, you mentioned every seat's got a different

00:25:15.819 --> 00:25:19.680
price almost. With that strategy? There are some

00:25:19.680 --> 00:25:23.140
actual, we're going to set aside X amount of

00:25:23.140 --> 00:25:27.180
seats to very purposely get these in the hands

00:25:27.180 --> 00:25:30.160
of folks who either maybe couldn't afford theater

00:25:30.160 --> 00:25:32.660
otherwise or have never felt welcomed in the

00:25:32.660 --> 00:25:35.500
theater. And so we try to do that on almost every

00:25:35.500 --> 00:25:38.920
show, is to make sure we're opening the doors

00:25:38.920 --> 00:25:41.019
to new audiences and saying, hey, come and visit

00:25:41.019 --> 00:25:43.059
us. And I think, A, that's the right thing to

00:25:43.059 --> 00:25:45.940
do. But B, that's... a really good business move

00:25:45.940 --> 00:25:48.559
because we're developing you know new audiences

00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:51.880
um and so we try to do that in every show there's

00:25:51.880 --> 00:25:54.839
um uh one of our advertising agencies in the

00:25:54.839 --> 00:25:57.619
industry situation interactive um started a great

00:25:57.619 --> 00:26:00.759
program years ago um and their goal which they've

00:26:00.759 --> 00:26:03.700
now met is that every single public high school

00:26:03.700 --> 00:26:05.740
student in new york city will see a broadway

00:26:05.740 --> 00:26:09.240
show before they graduate because if you google

00:26:09.240 --> 00:26:11.759
it it's on their website i'm missing the percent

00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:14.849
but it was something like only 10 of new york

00:26:14.849 --> 00:26:16.730
city high school students had seen a broadway

00:26:16.730 --> 00:26:18.829
show which is ridiculous they're going to school

00:26:18.829 --> 00:26:21.589
in manhattan in the theater capital of the world

00:26:21.589 --> 00:26:24.910
and then we have all this unsold inventory every

00:26:24.910 --> 00:26:27.930
single year a third of the seats on broadway

00:26:27.930 --> 00:26:31.769
are empty not not filled um and so he very smartly

00:26:31.769 --> 00:26:34.250
said well wait a minute we've got this dead inventory

00:26:34.250 --> 00:26:36.569
that that just is empty seats we've got high

00:26:36.569 --> 00:26:38.430
school students who haven't seen a broadway show

00:26:38.430 --> 00:26:41.730
um and we know from years and years of research

00:26:41.730 --> 00:26:44.380
that if you don't see theater whether it's Broadway

00:26:44.380 --> 00:26:46.980
or community theater, by the time you're in high

00:26:46.980 --> 00:26:49.819
school, you almost certainly never will in your

00:26:49.819 --> 00:26:52.180
entire life. And then if you have a family, your

00:26:52.180 --> 00:26:54.059
kids are not going to see theater because that's

00:26:54.059 --> 00:26:57.559
not a part of what you do. So we try to make

00:26:57.559 --> 00:27:00.500
sure that as often as we can, that we're introducing

00:27:00.500 --> 00:27:02.839
folks to theater at a young age. So it just becomes

00:27:02.839 --> 00:27:04.599
part of, you know, again, they're considering,

00:27:04.680 --> 00:27:06.599
do I go to a theme park? Do I see a baseball

00:27:06.599 --> 00:27:08.940
game? Do I see a show? We just kind of want to

00:27:08.940 --> 00:27:11.839
be in that conversation. Yeah, and that actually

00:27:11.839 --> 00:27:15.559
makes me wonder, you know, when, because I think

00:27:15.559 --> 00:27:18.579
that's great. Like I did ticketing for Alcatraz

00:27:18.579 --> 00:27:23.799
for probably years. And the contract went over

00:27:23.799 --> 00:27:26.819
to a new team, which was sad for us because I

00:27:26.819 --> 00:27:28.359
loved doing it. But one of the things that they

00:27:28.359 --> 00:27:31.740
did was have, we did have to hold a certain percentage

00:27:31.740 --> 00:27:33.700
for students because I think it is important

00:27:33.700 --> 00:27:37.759
to have these experiences. But that kind of makes

00:27:37.759 --> 00:27:41.940
me wonder. When you mention that if someone doesn't

00:27:41.940 --> 00:27:44.859
see theater before the age of, what did you say,

00:27:44.920 --> 00:27:48.900
18 or 20? Yeah, if you haven't seen a show by

00:27:48.900 --> 00:27:51.240
the time you graduate high school, you probably

00:27:51.240 --> 00:27:53.859
won't. Yeah, that's amazing to me because what

00:27:53.859 --> 00:27:58.200
a shame that is. But do you know of any benefits

00:27:58.200 --> 00:28:01.819
to those who come to watch that, like for students

00:28:01.819 --> 00:28:04.640
who are coming? You know, beyond just having

00:28:04.640 --> 00:28:06.839
the experience, because like I said, I had the

00:28:06.839 --> 00:28:10.700
balcony seats at Hell's Kitchen in January. And

00:28:10.700 --> 00:28:13.819
I mean, I was fully immersed in it. And I mean,

00:28:13.839 --> 00:28:15.700
like I said, my daughter and I were there because

00:28:15.700 --> 00:28:18.220
it's a mother daughter show. It's a show about

00:28:18.220 --> 00:28:20.519
a mother daughter's experience and among other

00:28:20.519 --> 00:28:23.440
things, because Alicia Keys story. But, you know,

00:28:23.440 --> 00:28:25.339
we're both on the balcony crying and it was an

00:28:25.339 --> 00:28:28.359
amazing connection for us. But also, you know,

00:28:28.359 --> 00:28:33.569
I found so many of these shows. I value them

00:28:33.569 --> 00:28:36.230
for so many reasons. But what I'm curious is

00:28:36.230 --> 00:28:39.930
for young people, is there something that we've

00:28:39.930 --> 00:28:42.410
seen in the research or the data that shows how

00:28:42.410 --> 00:28:44.730
this enriches their lives and why we need to

00:28:44.730 --> 00:28:47.589
make this available to them? Yeah, I mean, I

00:28:47.589 --> 00:28:50.170
can't cite any specific studies, but I certainly

00:28:50.170 --> 00:28:52.869
know I've read magazine and newspaper articles

00:28:52.869 --> 00:28:57.210
just showing that for kids who are exposed to

00:28:57.210 --> 00:28:59.690
music, for instance, do better in math and science.

00:29:00.279 --> 00:29:03.720
And that seeing theater, you know, there's proof,

00:29:03.859 --> 00:29:05.640
there's been studies done over generations that

00:29:05.640 --> 00:29:08.640
makes you a more empathetic person. So, you know,

00:29:08.660 --> 00:29:10.779
I'm not the expert in any of those areas, but

00:29:10.779 --> 00:29:13.460
I know seeing any kind of arts, whether it's

00:29:13.460 --> 00:29:17.059
music or theater or dance, it just makes you

00:29:17.059 --> 00:29:20.500
a better, more well -rounded person. Yeah, well,

00:29:20.579 --> 00:29:24.559
I know for sure being in theater has huge advantages.

00:29:25.079 --> 00:29:28.740
I'm so grateful for, like I said, the kids that...

00:29:29.710 --> 00:29:32.049
that the theater that my kids have been, uh,

00:29:32.210 --> 00:29:33.890
the community theater that my kids have been

00:29:33.890 --> 00:29:38.490
in the training, the having to memorize the deadlines,

00:29:38.650 --> 00:29:42.130
the, you know, I I'm so lucky. I don't, I didn't

00:29:42.130 --> 00:29:44.329
even have to make any of them show up. Like some

00:29:44.329 --> 00:29:45.930
of the other theater moms are complaining because

00:29:45.930 --> 00:29:49.069
they have to get their kids to, to, you know,

00:29:49.069 --> 00:29:52.730
rehearse and, and study their lines and, and

00:29:52.730 --> 00:29:57.150
drag them to the, to practice. But, you know,

00:29:57.150 --> 00:30:00.119
for me, my kids, they just, I think it's just

00:30:00.119 --> 00:30:02.140
been such a rewarding experience to all of them.

00:30:02.240 --> 00:30:04.019
I mean, I'm, I've been very lucky. I don't have

00:30:04.019 --> 00:30:06.859
to force them to do it at all. In fact, they

00:30:06.859 --> 00:30:09.920
have to force me to take them some days. Right.

00:30:10.460 --> 00:30:13.759
Great training in terms of entrepreneurship,

00:30:13.839 --> 00:30:16.140
even if you're an actor to know what it's like

00:30:16.140 --> 00:30:19.579
to assemble a team, to get a theater, to, to

00:30:19.579 --> 00:30:23.119
do contracts, to, to put together a program,

00:30:23.160 --> 00:30:26.359
to market and sell tickets. You kind of, especially,

00:30:26.519 --> 00:30:29.269
you know, at the, the, non -professional level,

00:30:29.309 --> 00:30:31.049
you kind of have to do a little bit of everything

00:30:31.049 --> 00:30:33.549
and it's really building a business. Yeah, no,

00:30:33.750 --> 00:30:35.650
that's actually a great point I've never thought

00:30:35.650 --> 00:30:41.069
about. I really have appreciated the training

00:30:41.069 --> 00:30:42.869
that my kids have gotten and I see how much they

00:30:42.869 --> 00:30:44.950
grow and I look at it and go, every kid needs

00:30:44.950 --> 00:30:48.430
this, right? But not every kid can get on. I

00:30:48.430 --> 00:30:50.230
mean, I wasn't the kind of kid that could get

00:30:50.230 --> 00:30:52.930
on stage. So, you know, I understand that too.

00:30:53.049 --> 00:30:54.990
I'm more, you know, because we need the audience

00:30:54.990 --> 00:30:57.990
too. Right. And something you said about selling

00:30:57.990 --> 00:31:00.289
the tickets, you know, wanting to fill those

00:31:00.289 --> 00:31:02.289
seats. I mean, there's nothing sadder than seeing

00:31:02.289 --> 00:31:08.150
the the audience not filled. Right. Especially

00:31:08.150 --> 00:31:10.269
with all the time and work that they put into.

00:31:10.349 --> 00:31:14.009
I recently went to a my husband and I have both

00:31:14.009 --> 00:31:16.630
been involved in circus arts for years. Oh, wow.

00:31:16.789 --> 00:31:21.269
Yeah. And and we went to a show in St. Louis.

00:31:23.230 --> 00:31:26.950
We had great seats, but man, we had like Cirque

00:31:26.950 --> 00:31:31.349
du Soleil level talent and tons of empty seats.

00:31:31.430 --> 00:31:33.329
And it just kind of broke my heart for the performers

00:31:33.329 --> 00:31:35.609
who put their heart and soul into these things.

00:31:35.849 --> 00:31:37.549
It's not a good experience for anyone, right?

00:31:37.589 --> 00:31:39.809
The performers feed off that audience energy.

00:31:39.990 --> 00:31:42.789
They need that. And the more energy in the audience,

00:31:42.930 --> 00:31:44.910
the better the performances are. As an audience

00:31:44.910 --> 00:31:47.710
member, you want people around you laughing and

00:31:47.710 --> 00:31:51.109
clapping and gasping. That's what live entertainment

00:31:51.109 --> 00:31:53.960
is. um and so if yeah if you're in a house that's

00:31:53.960 --> 00:31:57.480
kind of half full you know it you lose that magic

00:31:57.480 --> 00:32:00.119
and then you know you also kind of think well

00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:02.059
wait a minute am i one of the few suckers who

00:32:02.059 --> 00:32:03.759
bought a ticket to this thing why is nobody else

00:32:03.759 --> 00:32:06.319
here and it's just not a great experience so

00:32:06.319 --> 00:32:09.400
we you know most shows especially early on do

00:32:09.400 --> 00:32:11.279
struggle to sell tickets and you know until you

00:32:11.279 --> 00:32:13.700
kind of build a brand and build awareness um

00:32:13.700 --> 00:32:15.680
but we put a lot of effort into it we call it

00:32:15.680 --> 00:32:19.279
dressing the house um so even if only half your

00:32:19.279 --> 00:32:21.619
tickets are sold for a given performance. There's

00:32:21.619 --> 00:32:24.400
a way by how you seat people that you can make

00:32:24.400 --> 00:32:27.599
it feel a lot fuller. So on Broadway, for instance,

00:32:27.720 --> 00:32:30.279
if you have a performance that just isn't selling.

00:32:30.970 --> 00:32:33.269
You might take everyone who bought probably the

00:32:33.269 --> 00:32:35.329
lowest priced tickets in the balcony and give

00:32:35.329 --> 00:32:37.450
them free upgrades to the orchestra. Now you're

00:32:37.450 --> 00:32:39.589
creating a nice little magical customer moment

00:32:39.589 --> 00:32:41.089
there because they thought they bought the cheapest

00:32:41.089 --> 00:32:42.650
seat in the house and now they're getting a good

00:32:42.650 --> 00:32:46.130
seat. But if the balcony is empty and you can

00:32:46.130 --> 00:32:48.470
move all those people down below, at least to

00:32:48.470 --> 00:32:50.789
all those people, it now feels like a full theater.

00:32:50.930 --> 00:32:52.869
The cast certainly can look up there and see

00:32:52.869 --> 00:32:55.509
the balcony is empty, but you can at least make

00:32:55.509 --> 00:32:57.509
it a better experience for the audience members

00:32:57.509 --> 00:33:00.160
down there. Yeah, no, I didn't know about that.

00:33:00.259 --> 00:33:01.759
I didn't know about dressing the house. But you

00:33:01.759 --> 00:33:03.799
know what, I knew there was a lot of magic happening

00:33:03.799 --> 00:33:05.880
in the background. And I love that you said,

00:33:05.900 --> 00:33:07.180
you know, it creates a different experience.

00:33:07.259 --> 00:33:09.000
But that kind of brings me like, what's some

00:33:09.000 --> 00:33:11.680
of the innovation and business models that you

00:33:11.680 --> 00:33:14.660
see out there? You know, you've mentioned a lot

00:33:14.660 --> 00:33:16.380
about ticketing and talking to other theaters.

00:33:16.640 --> 00:33:19.019
But I'm just curious, you know, what's an example

00:33:19.019 --> 00:33:21.839
of novel business models that you've seen applied

00:33:21.839 --> 00:33:24.960
that are very successful in the live entertainment

00:33:24.960 --> 00:33:30.029
space? I mean, we are so behind the times on

00:33:30.029 --> 00:33:34.589
Broadway. Part of that is we're locked into the

00:33:34.589 --> 00:33:37.049
ticketing providers that the Broadway theater

00:33:37.049 --> 00:33:40.470
owners own, right? So I have very little control.

00:33:40.529 --> 00:33:42.549
I have to use the ticketing system they tell

00:33:42.549 --> 00:33:47.190
me to. I get very little access to it. And we're

00:33:47.190 --> 00:33:49.410
just light years behind, I think, many of our

00:33:49.410 --> 00:33:51.089
colleagues in the ticketing industry. That being

00:33:51.089 --> 00:33:53.970
said, very recently, the two biggest Broadway

00:33:53.970 --> 00:33:57.630
ticketing companies, now basically give anyone

00:33:57.630 --> 00:34:01.049
API access to the inventory. So now we see, you

00:34:01.049 --> 00:34:04.250
know, some third parties crafting things. There's

00:34:04.250 --> 00:34:06.549
a great company in the UK called Ticketleap.

00:34:06.609 --> 00:34:08.829
And the only thing they do are purchase paths.

00:34:09.050 --> 00:34:11.409
So it sits on top of whatever ticketing system

00:34:11.409 --> 00:34:14.489
you use. And they have this team of data scientists

00:34:14.489 --> 00:34:16.849
who, you know, who try to make sure we don't,

00:34:16.849 --> 00:34:18.650
at the top of the funnel, lose all those people

00:34:18.650 --> 00:34:21.190
and get as many people to the bottom of the funnel

00:34:21.190 --> 00:34:25.719
as we can. And it's all through user design and

00:34:25.719 --> 00:34:29.639
making that a smooth process, again, on top of

00:34:29.639 --> 00:34:31.699
another ticketing provider. There's another company

00:34:31.699 --> 00:34:35.099
whose name I'm blanking on that I met at Intex,

00:34:35.300 --> 00:34:37.639
and they started in the sporting world and were

00:34:37.639 --> 00:34:40.000
starting to play with their services in the theater

00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:42.880
world. And their system is kind of like what

00:34:42.880 --> 00:34:44.639
I talked about earlier. If we move people from

00:34:44.639 --> 00:34:47.960
the balcony to the orchestra, they developed

00:34:47.960 --> 00:34:50.340
an app that, again, works with any other ticketing

00:34:50.340 --> 00:34:53.090
system that when you show up, at a stadium for

00:34:53.090 --> 00:34:55.349
a sporting game and you're sitting in the balcony

00:34:55.349 --> 00:34:57.949
you might get a pop -up that says hey for 12

00:34:57.949 --> 00:35:00.769
more for everyone in your party right now we'll

00:35:00.769 --> 00:35:03.389
move you you know 10 rows behind the court because

00:35:03.389 --> 00:35:06.250
that seat if it's not sold you know 15 minutes

00:35:06.250 --> 00:35:08.710
before the game starts probably wouldn't be sold

00:35:08.710 --> 00:35:11.789
um so what a great you know little extra revenue

00:35:11.789 --> 00:35:14.070
there and we could do the same thing in theater

00:35:14.070 --> 00:35:16.590
right if if you're seated in the balcony but

00:35:16.590 --> 00:35:18.650
we have a more expensive seat that opened up

00:35:18.650 --> 00:35:20.409
that's probably not going to get sold why not

00:35:20.829 --> 00:35:22.829
let someone, you know, upgrade themselves on

00:35:22.829 --> 00:35:27.869
the spot. Apps like TodayTix, which is started

00:35:27.869 --> 00:35:31.170
in theater and is now, you know, family entertainment

00:35:31.170 --> 00:35:33.449
centers, theme parks, sporting, I think they

00:35:33.449 --> 00:35:35.929
do everything now, but their thing is literally

00:35:35.929 --> 00:35:37.650
tickets for today. We're going to give you a

00:35:37.650 --> 00:35:41.230
nice discount, but the restriction is, and now

00:35:41.230 --> 00:35:43.130
actually they sell tickets further out, but kind

00:35:43.130 --> 00:35:45.869
of their bread and butter is, you know, if you

00:35:45.869 --> 00:35:47.489
want to see a show today, we will get you the

00:35:47.489 --> 00:35:50.719
best possible price. Yeah, that's awesome. You

00:35:50.719 --> 00:35:52.460
know, it's interesting. It's interesting that

00:35:52.460 --> 00:35:57.980
you brought up the sports side of the business

00:35:57.980 --> 00:36:01.360
of ticketing, right? Because I, and even just

00:36:01.360 --> 00:36:04.079
when you look at, forget sports, even just like

00:36:04.079 --> 00:36:06.900
we have the ball arena here. I went to see, I'm

00:36:06.900 --> 00:36:08.260
almost embarrassed to say, but I went to see

00:36:08.260 --> 00:36:11.800
New Kids on the Block. Nice. And we bought the

00:36:11.800 --> 00:36:14.199
four pack. So we had like the nosebleed seats,

00:36:14.340 --> 00:36:17.280
right? Because it was like a group of us just.

00:36:17.630 --> 00:36:19.550
They were offering a four -pack, so you didn't

00:36:19.550 --> 00:36:21.250
get to pick your seats, which I thought was a

00:36:21.250 --> 00:36:25.650
creative way to sell four seats. It was like

00:36:25.650 --> 00:36:28.230
a four -pack, friend seats. You're going back

00:36:28.230 --> 00:36:32.469
to the 90s, 80s, 90s. I can't remember how they

00:36:32.469 --> 00:36:35.280
marketed it, but it was pretty clever. What was

00:36:35.280 --> 00:36:38.500
interesting to me because I've actually been

00:36:38.500 --> 00:36:40.260
attending some of the ticket broker conferences

00:36:40.260 --> 00:36:42.119
just to kind of get an idea for what that looks

00:36:42.119 --> 00:36:45.179
like. When you realize that in that industry

00:36:45.179 --> 00:36:47.340
too, you've got the issue of the ticket brokers,

00:36:47.559 --> 00:36:50.579
right? And you could see the full sections that

00:36:50.579 --> 00:36:52.599
were empty because they're probably owned by

00:36:52.599 --> 00:36:56.099
those brokers who didn't market the event. Is

00:36:56.099 --> 00:36:58.099
that something similar that happens in theater

00:36:58.099 --> 00:37:01.500
or are you guys independent of the brokers? No,

00:37:01.539 --> 00:37:06.289
we have that issue as well. And, you know, listen,

00:37:06.429 --> 00:37:09.590
it's a love -hate relationship because there

00:37:09.590 --> 00:37:11.769
are certain shows where, you know, the moment

00:37:11.769 --> 00:37:14.409
tickets go on sale, the brokers snap up all the

00:37:14.409 --> 00:37:17.130
tickets. And for me as a producer, listen, money

00:37:17.130 --> 00:37:19.630
is money. The tickets are sold out. But then

00:37:19.630 --> 00:37:22.250
sometimes exactly that happens is, you know,

00:37:22.289 --> 00:37:24.429
a broker is speculating, thinking this will be

00:37:24.429 --> 00:37:26.849
a sold -out show, buys a ton of tickets, can't

00:37:26.849 --> 00:37:29.190
move them on the secondary market. And now even

00:37:29.190 --> 00:37:32.110
though those tickets were paid for, I have empty

00:37:32.110 --> 00:37:35.239
houses that I... I can't dress, I can't paper

00:37:35.239 --> 00:37:37.239
because those tickets are sold and those audience

00:37:37.239 --> 00:37:40.059
members might come. But we've done, I think,

00:37:40.059 --> 00:37:42.599
a much better job in the past decade or so of

00:37:42.599 --> 00:37:45.980
pricing shows at what the market tells us the

00:37:45.980 --> 00:37:47.739
shows should be priced at. And historically,

00:37:47.960 --> 00:37:51.260
I think we've kind of set our top price and said,

00:37:51.320 --> 00:37:52.739
well, if people want to pay that on the secondary

00:37:52.739 --> 00:37:57.400
market, we can't control that. But my personal

00:37:57.400 --> 00:38:00.900
feelings are if the market is saying that's what

00:38:00.900 --> 00:38:03.800
tickets are worth, again, I want that. I want

00:38:03.800 --> 00:38:05.780
that money to go to the people who created the

00:38:05.780 --> 00:38:08.260
show. So Broadway is heavily unionized. We have

00:38:08.260 --> 00:38:10.300
19 different collective bargaining agreements.

00:38:10.659 --> 00:38:15.099
And most people get a small percentage of ticket

00:38:15.099 --> 00:38:17.099
sales as part of their compensation. So if the

00:38:17.099 --> 00:38:19.400
ticket's going to go for 500, I want the writer

00:38:19.400 --> 00:38:22.199
and the director and the designers to share in

00:38:22.199 --> 00:38:24.980
that and not the ticket reseller necessarily.

00:38:25.699 --> 00:38:28.900
Right. Well, hey, maybe that's like an innovation

00:38:28.900 --> 00:38:33.090
that needs to happen where we can. figure out

00:38:33.090 --> 00:38:35.469
a tech that allows you to dress what you said

00:38:35.469 --> 00:38:37.929
dress it's called dress the audience yeah so

00:38:37.929 --> 00:38:40.110
we thought papering the house is when you you're

00:38:40.110 --> 00:38:42.570
literally giving out complimentary tickets just

00:38:42.570 --> 00:38:46.230
to have bodies in the seats um because again

00:38:46.230 --> 00:38:48.090
you know you don't want a half empty theater

00:38:48.090 --> 00:38:49.570
because then everyone else doesn't have a great

00:38:49.570 --> 00:38:51.750
experience so the thinking is if you pay for

00:38:51.750 --> 00:38:53.690
the house you're giving those tickets away everyone

00:38:53.690 --> 00:38:55.750
has a better experience and hopefully the person

00:38:55.750 --> 00:38:57.630
you gave those free tickets to likes the show

00:38:57.630 --> 00:39:00.130
and posts about it and talks about it and then

00:39:00.130 --> 00:39:02.409
dressing the house is literally just moving where

00:39:02.409 --> 00:39:04.809
you're seating people um that can get a little

00:39:04.809 --> 00:39:07.190
messy because you know for theater you're buying

00:39:07.190 --> 00:39:10.750
a specific sure um and sometimes people don't

00:39:10.750 --> 00:39:12.409
want to be moved but typically if you're moving

00:39:12.409 --> 00:39:15.070
them from a less desirable location to a better

00:39:15.070 --> 00:39:17.469
location they're pretty thrilled about that i'm

00:39:17.469 --> 00:39:19.969
sure I'm sure. And I think I've had that happen

00:39:19.969 --> 00:39:21.929
to me at shows. It's kind of like getting an

00:39:21.929 --> 00:39:24.150
upgrade on a plane, right? Every once in a while,

00:39:24.170 --> 00:39:26.809
I only got a middle seat. That's what was left.

00:39:26.949 --> 00:39:29.909
And I got bumped up to Economy Plus on the aisle.

00:39:30.030 --> 00:39:33.730
Great. I'm thrilled. Yeah, that's awesome. Well,

00:39:33.750 --> 00:39:35.650
that kind of brings me to memorable experiences

00:39:35.650 --> 00:39:40.610
beyond theater. I know, I think we mentioned

00:39:40.610 --> 00:39:44.210
that you've also done film, right? Yeah. I'm

00:39:44.210 --> 00:39:46.869
sorry. Our fire alarm is going off in the building.

00:39:47.670 --> 00:39:50.909
oh no i can't hear it okay hopefully you don't

00:39:50.909 --> 00:39:53.030
gotta run out of the building no if i see people

00:39:53.030 --> 00:39:56.309
running i will run uh yeah so uh film is something

00:39:56.309 --> 00:39:59.829
we got into during covid um when we we literally

00:39:59.829 --> 00:40:02.829
couldn't make theater right the the government

00:40:02.829 --> 00:40:05.130
and federal government all the states said this

00:40:05.130 --> 00:40:07.349
is not a good idea to have a thousand you know

00:40:07.349 --> 00:40:10.590
strangers sitting in a a dark room and close

00:40:10.590 --> 00:40:13.869
quarters together And so it was really just a

00:40:13.869 --> 00:40:16.610
pivot to say, well, here's a way for me to employ

00:40:16.610 --> 00:40:19.030
people and to tell stories. And it's really,

00:40:19.190 --> 00:40:22.550
you know, the storytelling element is pretty

00:40:22.550 --> 00:40:25.349
similar, right? It's creating a story, getting

00:40:25.349 --> 00:40:27.070
a writer and a director and a team together.

00:40:27.650 --> 00:40:31.590
The nice thing about film is that on the theater

00:40:31.590 --> 00:40:34.150
side, for Broadway theaters at least, there's

00:40:34.150 --> 00:40:37.030
only three privately held companies that own.

00:40:37.519 --> 00:40:40.239
uh almost all of the 41 broadway theaters so

00:40:40.239 --> 00:40:42.260
you can have a wonderful show but at the end

00:40:42.260 --> 00:40:44.500
of the day i need one of these three privately

00:40:44.500 --> 00:40:47.000
owned companies to say it's your turn you can

00:40:47.000 --> 00:40:49.800
use my real estate now um we're on the film side

00:40:49.800 --> 00:40:52.880
you could just make a film right now now maybe

00:40:52.880 --> 00:40:56.019
it won't get you know sold to a big studio or

00:40:56.019 --> 00:40:58.059
to a big streamer but you can just make it you

00:40:58.059 --> 00:41:00.119
don't have to wait for someone to say okay you

00:41:00.119 --> 00:41:02.619
can use my real estate now well that's what's

00:41:02.619 --> 00:41:08.389
kind of cool about the the Roku, right? For lack

00:41:08.389 --> 00:41:11.389
of a better word. I've actually seen quite a

00:41:11.389 --> 00:41:16.110
few theater actors in films in recent years because

00:41:16.110 --> 00:41:18.929
my daughter follows all of her favorites. I get

00:41:18.929 --> 00:41:22.650
to watch them by way of her. I honestly wouldn't

00:41:22.650 --> 00:41:27.469
know. She keeps me cool. Nice. She keeps me cool

00:41:27.469 --> 00:41:31.150
as far as that goes. It's been really cool to

00:41:31.150 --> 00:41:33.989
see a lot of theater actors transferring over

00:41:33.989 --> 00:41:37.900
into film. What's his name? I can't believe I

00:41:37.900 --> 00:41:39.679
cannot think of his name right now because she

00:41:39.679 --> 00:41:42.539
she she loves this guy. He was in the Elton John.

00:41:43.739 --> 00:41:47.000
Oh, nice. I can picture his face. You know what

00:41:47.000 --> 00:41:49.019
I'm talking about? Right. Yeah. Yeah. But he

00:41:49.019 --> 00:41:52.559
started off in theater. And, you know, I just

00:41:52.559 --> 00:41:54.179
I just think there's something really cool about

00:41:54.179 --> 00:41:56.820
it because theater actors just bring such a different

00:41:56.820 --> 00:42:00.980
feel. I mean, they're just they're amazing actors.

00:42:01.860 --> 00:42:05.849
You know, we tend to get. actors on broadway

00:42:05.849 --> 00:42:08.949
on both ends of their career early and sure when

00:42:08.949 --> 00:42:11.449
they're peaking because for better or for worse

00:42:11.449 --> 00:42:14.630
film and tv pays a lot better the hours are a

00:42:14.630 --> 00:42:17.269
lot better um you know filling a movie can be

00:42:17.269 --> 00:42:20.070
grueling you know 12 hour day after 12 hour day

00:42:20.070 --> 00:42:22.289
but at the end of the month or however long the

00:42:22.289 --> 00:42:24.750
shoot is you're back to your normal life if you're

00:42:24.750 --> 00:42:28.590
a broadway actor or stagehand um you know eight

00:42:28.590 --> 00:42:32.409
shows a week every week working six days a week,

00:42:32.510 --> 00:42:36.210
every week. That's a grind. It's a lot of work.

00:42:36.469 --> 00:42:39.789
But so a lot of our theater actors leave us for

00:42:39.789 --> 00:42:41.650
Hollywood where the hours are a little bit better

00:42:41.650 --> 00:42:43.070
and the pay is a little bit better. And then

00:42:43.070 --> 00:42:44.769
when they get to a point in their career where,

00:42:44.829 --> 00:42:47.889
you know, now they can pick the shows they want

00:42:47.889 --> 00:42:50.670
to do on Broadway. And we see even just this

00:42:50.670 --> 00:42:52.730
past season, we had what, Denzel Washington,

00:42:53.110 --> 00:42:56.159
Jake Gyllenhaal, George. Clooney, some truly

00:42:56.159 --> 00:42:59.079
A -list people saying, no, I want to do Broadway.

00:42:59.179 --> 00:43:02.519
And I've been so successful in film that I can

00:43:02.519 --> 00:43:05.260
make this work financially now. Well, you know

00:43:05.260 --> 00:43:07.440
what I love about it? I've always been somebody

00:43:07.440 --> 00:43:10.579
who, I grew up in LA, so I was always immersed

00:43:10.579 --> 00:43:15.119
in that Hollywood culture. What I love about

00:43:15.119 --> 00:43:17.920
that, because when I saw Jake Gyllenhaal, he's

00:43:17.920 --> 00:43:19.719
always been my favorite. Donnie Darko is still

00:43:19.719 --> 00:43:25.559
one of my favorite films. I was so excited that

00:43:25.559 --> 00:43:27.420
he was going to be there and I couldn't make

00:43:27.420 --> 00:43:29.659
the dates work, but it's like, you get this opportunity

00:43:29.659 --> 00:43:32.500
to see somebody like that performing live. That's

00:43:32.500 --> 00:43:35.300
a really special experience. Yeah. You know,

00:43:35.300 --> 00:43:37.460
that is something that's really cool. Oh yeah.

00:43:37.519 --> 00:43:39.940
And clearly like the box office is proving there,

00:43:40.019 --> 00:43:43.099
there's a demand audiences like to see, you know,

00:43:43.099 --> 00:43:45.820
a list Hollywood celebrities in a theater on

00:43:45.820 --> 00:43:48.860
the ticketing side. What worries me is when,

00:43:48.900 --> 00:43:51.159
when you have a truly, you know, a George Clooney

00:43:51.159 --> 00:43:54.909
level person, George Clooney is human just like

00:43:54.909 --> 00:43:58.230
us. He gets sick. He catches a cold. He trips

00:43:58.230 --> 00:44:01.909
and breaks his ankle. That's something you can't

00:44:01.909 --> 00:44:05.090
really plan for, but you will get a lot of refund

00:44:05.090 --> 00:44:07.909
requests. People won't buy tickets because...

00:44:08.489 --> 00:44:09.969
you know that's the person they're coming to

00:44:09.969 --> 00:44:11.750
see so it's a double -edged sword but someone

00:44:11.750 --> 00:44:14.630
of that caliber certainly sells tickets um certainly

00:44:14.630 --> 00:44:17.250
gets a ton of press that that normally you wouldn't

00:44:17.250 --> 00:44:19.170
get right every talk show and morning show will

00:44:19.170 --> 00:44:21.329
have him on um but then you have to kind of be

00:44:21.329 --> 00:44:24.670
prepared for the unprepared of you know whether

00:44:24.670 --> 00:44:27.050
it's a planned vacation or an unplanned he he

00:44:27.050 --> 00:44:30.409
got sick uh that that's a scary box office problem

00:44:30.409 --> 00:44:33.710
sure yeah i'm actually in the women in ticketing

00:44:33.710 --> 00:44:36.849
group And I see because that could be in attractions.

00:44:37.050 --> 00:44:40.210
I see some of the challenges that theaters in

00:44:40.210 --> 00:44:42.909
particular are facing with regards to that. Like

00:44:42.909 --> 00:44:46.389
I've heard and seen some of the things that they're

00:44:46.389 --> 00:44:48.489
asking for help with with regards to that. And

00:44:48.489 --> 00:44:50.590
it's an interesting challenge that you guys have

00:44:50.590 --> 00:44:53.130
because you are balancing something really unique

00:44:53.130 --> 00:44:56.070
there with regards to the offering that you have.

00:44:57.269 --> 00:44:59.690
I know we're bumping up against time, but I have

00:44:59.690 --> 00:45:02.250
to mention one thing. You know, you are a Tony

00:45:02.250 --> 00:45:07.949
Award winning producer. And with that, what is

00:45:07.949 --> 00:45:13.010
one piece of advice you'd give to theaters, live

00:45:13.010 --> 00:45:16.929
experience venues and attraction operators looking

00:45:16.929 --> 00:45:22.409
to produce more successful and profitable guest

00:45:22.409 --> 00:45:26.489
experiences? I mean, this is such a hard thing

00:45:26.489 --> 00:45:28.690
to do because we're all living and breathing

00:45:28.690 --> 00:45:33.769
inside of our businesses. But I try to. as often

00:45:33.769 --> 00:45:36.630
as I can experience something as an actual audience

00:45:36.630 --> 00:45:39.889
member. And that's tough, right? Because every

00:45:39.889 --> 00:45:42.769
once in a while, I will literally buy with my

00:45:42.769 --> 00:45:44.769
credit card a ticket to one of my own shows because

00:45:44.769 --> 00:45:46.469
I want to know what is this experience, lining

00:45:46.469 --> 00:45:48.590
up on the sidewalk, going through security, getting

00:45:48.590 --> 00:45:52.670
your ticket scanned. Now, most people in a theater

00:45:52.670 --> 00:45:54.630
where I have a show in know me and recognize

00:45:54.630 --> 00:45:57.210
me. So I understand I can't truly get that experience.

00:45:57.590 --> 00:45:59.969
But I also will ask friends and family members

00:45:59.969 --> 00:46:01.650
if I know they're coming to see one of my shows.

00:46:03.079 --> 00:46:05.539
covertly be a secret shopper. I'll buy you dinner

00:46:05.539 --> 00:46:08.199
and drinks after. But report back. What were

00:46:08.199 --> 00:46:11.219
the pain points? What felt unpleasant? What excited

00:46:11.219 --> 00:46:15.300
you? What was surprising? And so as often as

00:46:15.300 --> 00:46:18.420
you can, and if you're working in an attraction,

00:46:18.699 --> 00:46:20.340
maybe it's a little easier to blend in with the

00:46:20.340 --> 00:46:22.340
crowd versus the one entrance into a theater.

00:46:22.800 --> 00:46:25.940
But try to experience it like a stranger. Go

00:46:25.940 --> 00:46:30.800
to your competitors. What are they doing that

00:46:30.800 --> 00:46:32.539
you could learn from? What are they doing that

00:46:32.539 --> 00:46:35.199
you shouldn't be doing? But I try to, as often

00:46:35.199 --> 00:46:38.079
as I can, make sure I'm trying to stick up and

00:46:38.079 --> 00:46:40.559
be that voice of the consumer and say, well,

00:46:40.619 --> 00:46:43.099
yeah, this makes sense for us on the back end,

00:46:43.159 --> 00:46:45.559
but this actually makes the purchase path more

00:46:45.559 --> 00:46:48.460
difficult. And yes, this will save us some time

00:46:48.460 --> 00:46:51.539
and money, but it's an unpleasant experience.

00:46:53.260 --> 00:46:56.559
One of our theater owners who recently sold his

00:46:56.559 --> 00:46:59.360
theaters to a different company. um there's a

00:46:59.360 --> 00:47:01.579
great story about how he had these ice machines

00:47:01.579 --> 00:47:05.059
imported from europe um that made perfectly round

00:47:05.059 --> 00:47:07.179
ice cubes that were quieter in a theater when

00:47:07.179 --> 00:47:10.019
people you know drank their drink and he said

00:47:10.019 --> 00:47:12.440
look these were obscenely expensive ice machines

00:47:12.440 --> 00:47:14.920
there was no business case for this if you looked

00:47:14.920 --> 00:47:17.059
at what this cost versus the ice machine i could

00:47:17.059 --> 00:47:20.179
buy from a normal supplier made no sense i can't

00:47:20.179 --> 00:47:22.880
measure it but i i know somehow this will pay

00:47:22.880 --> 00:47:25.519
off if if it's a better experience for the audience

00:47:25.519 --> 00:47:28.820
member Yeah, I love that because ultimately that's

00:47:28.820 --> 00:47:33.139
what we want to see happen is the great experiences

00:47:33.139 --> 00:47:36.380
for people. And so they keep coming back. We

00:47:36.380 --> 00:47:39.239
know that even in attractions, which is where

00:47:39.239 --> 00:47:42.800
I'm from, the industry that I work in, we know

00:47:42.800 --> 00:47:44.840
that when somebody has a great experience, they're

00:47:44.840 --> 00:47:46.780
more likely to come back. They're more likely

00:47:46.780 --> 00:47:49.780
to tell other people about it. And so I 100 %

00:47:49.780 --> 00:47:52.900
agree with you. And you just put it so eloquently,

00:47:53.119 --> 00:47:57.309
look at what your overall experience is. Because

00:47:57.309 --> 00:48:00.230
that's where the information is. Also, reviews,

00:48:00.570 --> 00:48:02.289
right? People are leaving reviews. They're leaving

00:48:02.289 --> 00:48:06.510
those comments. That's a goldmine to be mined.

00:48:06.969 --> 00:48:10.230
And for us and the theater, I always say the

00:48:10.230 --> 00:48:13.050
experience happens on the curb, right? An area

00:48:13.050 --> 00:48:14.849
of the sidewalk we have literally no control

00:48:14.849 --> 00:48:17.469
over. But if you're a ticket -buying audience

00:48:17.469 --> 00:48:20.769
member, that's part of your experience. Years

00:48:20.769 --> 00:48:23.630
ago, I worked in the attractions industry at

00:48:23.630 --> 00:48:26.300
a... a major theme park operator and at a small

00:48:26.300 --> 00:48:29.079
fbc before that and it's the same thing you know

00:48:29.079 --> 00:48:31.480
if there's a long line for parking and the price

00:48:31.480 --> 00:48:34.039
is obscene and the system isn't well thought

00:48:34.039 --> 00:48:36.219
out that's actually where someone's journey begins

00:48:36.219 --> 00:48:38.519
in their mind maybe not to us we think it's the

00:48:38.519 --> 00:48:41.099
front gate and everything is magical after that

00:48:41.099 --> 00:48:43.539
but if it's been a frustrating 20 minutes to

00:48:43.539 --> 00:48:45.300
get to the front gate you know people are showing

00:48:45.300 --> 00:48:48.260
up in a bad mood already yeah oh i talk a lot

00:48:48.260 --> 00:48:50.539
on this show about standing in line with hangry

00:48:50.539 --> 00:48:53.659
kids on a hot day at a water park right You know,

00:48:53.699 --> 00:48:55.980
that's an experience for that mom. I've been

00:48:55.980 --> 00:48:58.440
there. So, you know, looking at those areas where

00:48:58.440 --> 00:49:03.920
you can improve that. You know, we're so close

00:49:03.920 --> 00:49:05.840
to time. Cody, I could talk to you all day because

00:49:05.840 --> 00:49:08.179
I think this is such a cool thing. But Summoning

00:49:08.179 --> 00:49:12.920
Sylvia, your film. Yes. Was released in 23 markets.

00:49:13.199 --> 00:49:17.119
You know, what are the key things that you learned

00:49:17.119 --> 00:49:19.800
about the distribution experience and how that

00:49:19.800 --> 00:49:21.980
could apply to attractions expanding their reach?

00:49:23.150 --> 00:49:26.389
Sure. I mean, very similar to theater and the

00:49:26.389 --> 00:49:28.909
film business. You don't I don't get consumer

00:49:28.909 --> 00:49:30.789
data. Right. I get some high level demographic

00:49:30.789 --> 00:49:34.570
data. But AMC, Regal, the movie theaters, you

00:49:34.570 --> 00:49:37.809
know, they they own that information. But what

00:49:37.809 --> 00:49:41.050
was eye opening for me? That was the first film

00:49:41.050 --> 00:49:43.489
I produced compared to theater is all the different

00:49:43.489 --> 00:49:46.429
revenue streams. Right. In theater, for the most

00:49:46.429 --> 00:49:49.320
part. Yes, we sell. merchandise and we might

00:49:49.320 --> 00:49:51.880
have a cast album and the theater we never keep

00:49:51.880 --> 00:49:53.719
the concessions the producers that always goes

00:49:53.719 --> 00:49:56.780
to the theater owner um and in the film business

00:49:56.780 --> 00:50:00.039
you're clearly you have you know the big i'm

00:50:00.039 --> 00:50:02.039
in movie theaters for at least a few weeks release

00:50:02.039 --> 00:50:03.860
but then you have all these different revenue

00:50:03.860 --> 00:50:05.739
streams right you can sell different windows

00:50:05.739 --> 00:50:07.639
to different streaming services you can have

00:50:07.639 --> 00:50:09.900
transactional video on demand at the same time

00:50:09.900 --> 00:50:11.860
you can sell it to different markets all over

00:50:11.860 --> 00:50:15.190
the world And so that, you know, I want to try

00:50:15.190 --> 00:50:17.550
to bring some of that into theater and the attractions

00:50:17.550 --> 00:50:19.650
industry does a much better job of that that

00:50:19.650 --> 00:50:21.849
I'm also trying to steal to bring into theater.

00:50:22.570 --> 00:50:25.210
You know, should there be an upcharge to have

00:50:25.210 --> 00:50:27.389
a private VIP entrance into the theater where

00:50:27.389 --> 00:50:30.110
there is no line and there is no huge wait for

00:50:30.110 --> 00:50:32.690
the metal detectors? One of our Broadway theater

00:50:32.690 --> 00:50:35.530
owners just started putting in VIP lounges in

00:50:35.530 --> 00:50:37.710
their theater. So kind of like flying, you can

00:50:37.710 --> 00:50:39.909
pay a small premium to have access to a private

00:50:39.909 --> 00:50:42.650
lounge within. open bar and a coat check and

00:50:42.650 --> 00:50:45.130
a restroom without a line. And it's not at all

00:50:45.130 --> 00:50:48.090
that I want to nickel and dime people, but there's

00:50:48.090 --> 00:50:50.650
a certain percentage of people who just want

00:50:50.650 --> 00:50:53.250
a premium experience and are willing to pay a

00:50:53.250 --> 00:50:55.269
little extra for that. And for every person who

00:50:55.269 --> 00:50:57.510
buys up into the premium experience, that might

00:50:57.510 --> 00:50:59.769
allow me to lower a few tickets and get some

00:50:59.769 --> 00:51:01.550
people in the door who might not otherwise come.

00:51:01.969 --> 00:51:04.289
Yeah. No, I think the answer is yes to that.

00:51:04.409 --> 00:51:08.789
I would love that. I love that. I love those

00:51:08.789 --> 00:51:11.170
moments where you get to have that VIP experience.

00:51:11.289 --> 00:51:15.949
And, you know, I always say to the businesses

00:51:15.949 --> 00:51:18.769
I work with, the only difference between a Tiffany's

00:51:18.769 --> 00:51:21.650
diamond and a jewelry mart diamond is the experience,

00:51:21.929 --> 00:51:25.489
right? One will bring you a coffee, tea, soda,

00:51:25.650 --> 00:51:27.289
whatever you want, maybe even some champagne.

00:51:27.449 --> 00:51:30.949
The other isn't going to offer you a drink. But

00:51:30.949 --> 00:51:33.429
it's the same diamond. Exactly. And some of those

00:51:33.429 --> 00:51:36.110
things don't have to cost much money or. any

00:51:36.110 --> 00:51:40.429
money at all right um you know there uh we experimented

00:51:40.429 --> 00:51:42.650
a while ago and it didn't work for techno technology

00:51:42.650 --> 00:51:45.409
reasons but you know we're scanning everyone's

00:51:45.409 --> 00:51:47.769
ticket who comes in to the front door their name

00:51:47.769 --> 00:51:50.329
is tied to that purchase you know a simple hi

00:51:50.329 --> 00:51:52.429
cody welcome back if we see you've been in this

00:51:52.429 --> 00:51:54.489
theater before hi cody you know we see it's your

00:51:54.489 --> 00:51:58.090
first time we hope you have a great time um you

00:51:58.090 --> 00:52:00.429
know that there's a few hours of coding to make

00:52:00.429 --> 00:52:03.250
the name pop up on the scanner but that i love

00:52:03.250 --> 00:52:06.539
little easy things like that that just humanize

00:52:06.539 --> 00:52:08.960
the process, make people feel special and don't

00:52:08.960 --> 00:52:11.440
cost a lot of money to implement. Yeah, I think

00:52:11.440 --> 00:52:13.840
I love where you're going with that. Well, Cody,

00:52:13.900 --> 00:52:15.800
thank you for being so generous with my time.

00:52:15.880 --> 00:52:17.320
I have to share one more thing with you. Did

00:52:17.320 --> 00:52:20.119
you know that the Tony Award was named after

00:52:20.119 --> 00:52:22.219
a woman from Denver? which is where I am. Yes,

00:52:22.380 --> 00:52:25.599
Antoinette Perry. Yeah. I learned that this year

00:52:25.599 --> 00:52:29.239
and I was like, what? But as you know, theater

00:52:29.239 --> 00:52:32.739
is very, you probably know, I think I heard something

00:52:32.739 --> 00:52:35.079
like Denver is second largest to Broadway in

00:52:35.079 --> 00:52:36.719
terms of campus. Denver's a huge market, yeah.

00:52:37.260 --> 00:52:40.019
So luckily I keep telling my kids now, I'm like,

00:52:40.059 --> 00:52:42.539
you guys can do this and stay home. You don't

00:52:42.539 --> 00:52:45.139
have to leave me. I've done shows at the Denver

00:52:45.139 --> 00:52:47.099
Center for the Performing Arts. Yeah, and there's

00:52:47.099 --> 00:52:49.440
many other great theaters there too. Yeah. Well,

00:52:49.500 --> 00:52:52.079
cool. Well, I'm so glad that, you know, I figured

00:52:52.079 --> 00:52:54.360
you knew that. I learned it this year, actually,

00:52:54.400 --> 00:52:56.719
just a few months ago. And I was really just

00:52:56.719 --> 00:52:59.780
sharing it with everyone. So, yes. Yeah. And

00:52:59.780 --> 00:53:02.340
Antoinette Perry, who led the American theater

00:53:02.340 --> 00:53:05.380
wing, kind of helped shape what what modern commercial

00:53:05.380 --> 00:53:08.929
theater is. Yeah, that's pretty cool. Well, hey,

00:53:09.010 --> 00:53:11.550
thank you so much for being here and for being

00:53:11.550 --> 00:53:15.309
so generous with your time and for all that you've

00:53:15.309 --> 00:53:18.969
shared with our audience. What's the best way

00:53:18.969 --> 00:53:21.289
for somebody to get a hold of you if they need

00:53:21.289 --> 00:53:24.750
or want to connect with you? You can go to my

00:53:24.750 --> 00:53:28.570
website, just CodyLassen .com and fill out the

00:53:28.570 --> 00:53:30.690
form. You can connect with me on LinkedIn or

00:53:30.690 --> 00:53:33.829
any of the social media platforms. I'm easy to

00:53:33.829 --> 00:53:37.110
find. Yeah, well, I appreciate you being here.

00:53:37.730 --> 00:53:40.030
I know this show is a little bit longer than

00:53:40.030 --> 00:53:42.409
normal, but this was such a cool experience to

00:53:42.409 --> 00:53:45.309
talk to somebody with all this knowledge of theater

00:53:45.309 --> 00:53:49.289
and also just something that I learned a lot

00:53:49.289 --> 00:53:51.750
today. And hopefully I can better support the

00:53:51.750 --> 00:53:54.690
theaters that I'm associated with and work with.

00:53:54.969 --> 00:53:58.730
And I'll have to send this to our local theater.

00:53:58.889 --> 00:54:02.880
I think they're going to love this show. Thank

00:54:02.880 --> 00:54:08.119
you so much for being here. And yeah, I... Thanks

00:54:08.119 --> 00:54:09.820
for having me. It's been a pleasure. Yeah, it's

00:54:09.820 --> 00:54:12.840
been super fun. Well, I'll see you at Intex.

00:54:12.940 --> 00:54:16.519
How about that? Yes, exactly. Yeah. Well, thanks,

00:54:16.579 --> 00:54:18.920
Cody, for being here. I'll see you soon. Sounds

00:54:18.920 --> 00:54:23.579
good. Bye. Bye. All right, guys, I hope you found

00:54:23.579 --> 00:54:26.099
that to be as exciting as shows me. I mean, I

00:54:26.099 --> 00:54:30.400
know I've got some big reasons to love to talk

00:54:30.400 --> 00:54:32.760
to somebody like Cody who has that experience

00:54:32.760 --> 00:54:35.440
on Broadway and in theater because I have kids

00:54:35.440 --> 00:54:39.260
who are aspiring to move in that direction. But

00:54:39.260 --> 00:54:41.539
also, you know, I understand that it's a big

00:54:41.539 --> 00:54:44.539
part of what we're doing, creating these experiences

00:54:44.539 --> 00:54:48.630
for people. And I love what he said about. Going

00:54:48.630 --> 00:54:51.250
through the experience yourself and understanding

00:54:51.250 --> 00:54:53.230
what your guest is going to go through or what

00:54:53.230 --> 00:54:55.090
your ticket holders would go through, I think

00:54:55.090 --> 00:54:58.710
that's a huge way for us to innovate and improve

00:54:58.710 --> 00:55:01.030
the experiences that we're giving those who are

00:55:01.030 --> 00:55:03.730
attending our shows and our venues. There's always

00:55:03.730 --> 00:55:05.849
something that can be learned from every industry.

00:55:06.510 --> 00:55:10.329
And even seeing how he's learning from other

00:55:10.329 --> 00:55:13.090
industries and pulling information from sports

00:55:13.090 --> 00:55:16.550
teams and attractions. and how they're bringing

00:55:16.550 --> 00:55:19.889
that into their space. So I hope like you, or

00:55:19.889 --> 00:55:23.050
like me, you're taking this information so that

00:55:23.050 --> 00:55:28.150
you can use it across your business and the different

00:55:28.150 --> 00:55:29.829
business models that you're trying to create.

00:55:30.110 --> 00:55:32.570
So thank you for being here. I want to thank

00:55:32.570 --> 00:55:35.170
again, Cody, for being on the show. Thank you

00:55:35.170 --> 00:55:38.389
to our audience. We couldn't make this happen

00:55:38.389 --> 00:55:41.630
without those. of you out there watching and

00:55:41.630 --> 00:55:44.809
viewing. And if you are listening on the podcast

00:55:44.809 --> 00:55:48.159
networks. We thank you for listening. If you're

00:55:48.159 --> 00:55:51.820
watching us live and or on replay, please hashtag

00:55:51.820 --> 00:55:55.199
replay so we know that you were here. And if

00:55:55.199 --> 00:55:58.320
you have any questions for us or you would like

00:55:58.320 --> 00:56:00.400
to be a guest on the show and share your knowledge

00:56:00.400 --> 00:56:02.920
and information like Cody did, you can visit

00:56:02.920 --> 00:56:05.360
livewithsondra .com. We have a guest submission

00:56:05.360 --> 00:56:08.900
form right up on the main page, so you'll be

00:56:08.900 --> 00:56:11.800
able to access that. Fill that form out. Get

00:56:11.800 --> 00:56:14.260
with our producers, our amazing team that helps

00:56:14.260 --> 00:56:16.099
make this show possible. We'll get you on the

00:56:16.099 --> 00:56:18.659
show so you can share your information with the

00:56:18.659 --> 00:56:21.760
world. We love having people who are coming from

00:56:21.760 --> 00:56:23.940
all these adjacent industries that are teaching

00:56:23.940 --> 00:56:26.940
us so much like Cody did. So thank you for being

00:56:26.940 --> 00:56:30.159
here. And a quick reminder to visit our sponsor,

00:56:30.460 --> 00:56:36.039
GateMaster Technology at GateMaster .com. GateMaster

00:56:36.039 --> 00:56:40.079
is smarter ticketing and it starts. with them.

00:56:40.159 --> 00:56:44.199
So visit us at gatemaster .com. Thank you again,

00:56:44.260 --> 00:56:46.260
and I'll see you guys on the next Live with Sondra.