Welcome to the Live with Sondra podcast where
we dive deep into business, tech, and entrepreneurship.
Hosted by me, Sondra Shannon, CEO of GateMaster
Technology. Each show, we explore the latest
trends in ticketing attractions and guest experience,
helping you stay ahead of the curve in this ever
-evolving world of attractions and events. Whether
you're an industry expert or just getting started,
this show has insights to inspire and empower
you. Today's episode is sponsored by GateMaster
Technology, your trusted partner for ticketing
and attraction management solutions. Let's get
started with the show. Here we go. Welcome, everyone.
I want to welcome you back to the Live with Sandra
show where we dive into conversations that spark
new thinking and shine light on the people shaping
the future of attractions and hospitality world.
So let me start today. with our question of the
day for those of you listening or watching. Love
to hear your feedback in the chat. Send us a
message. Let us know your thoughts. But my question
for today is, when was the last time you had
a truly unforgettable experience at an attraction
or restaurant or destination? Was it memorable?
Was it smooth service? Did you receive a single
moment of kindness? Or was there something unexpected
that made you feel seen, valued, and even delighted?
That's exactly what we're talking about today.
The art and the impact of experience design and
the internal culture that makes it possible.
But before we get started. First, we have a word
from our sponsors. This episode today is brought
to you by GateMaster Technology, the original
attraction innovators behind the cashless system,
and now industry leaders in food and beverage,
point of sale, and integrated mobile ordering.
So I want you to imagine this, your guests relaxing
in their cabana or lounge chair, ordering burgers,
drinks, and desserts right from their phone.
With GateMaster's mobile ordering technology,
they can browse your full menu, place their orders,
and get notified via text when it's ready for
pickup or delivery. No lines, no hassle, just
more time enjoying your experience. Our mobile
ordering system has been proven to increase revenue
by 20 to 40%. We believe it's because guests
can spend more time with your menu and less time
waiting around. And it's not just about convenience.
GateMaster gives you everything you need to run
a smooth operation, full back of the house management,
location tracking for efficient pickup and delivery,
seamless tipping and tabbing, real -time text
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food and beverage service, visit GateMaster.com
and learn how you can make your operations smarter,
faster, and more profitable. At GateMaster Technology,
we're leading the way in cashless convenience
and next -gen guest service. technology. Now
back to our show. Our guest today is someone
who has been helping organizations deliver unforgettable
experiences for decades. Phil Bruno is the chief
experience officer and founder of Treat Them
Right Experiences with over 45 years of experience
in tourism and hospitality, including 17 years
at Anheuser -Busch. Phil is an award -winning
trainer, consultant, and speaker who's led programs
for over 100 ,000 graduates. That's right. I
said 100 ,000. He's passionate about elevating
both the guest experience and the employee experience
because one can't truly thrive without the other.
And I can promise you this. If you are leading
a team, hiring seasonal staff, or trying to stand
out in a crowded market, today's conversation
will give you practical, powerful perspective,
and maybe even a little inspiration. So grab
your coffee, or maybe a quad shot in honor of
Phil, and let's get into the show. Phil, welcome
to the show. Thank you very much. I had my quad
shot earlier today. I'm ready to roll. I'm going
to get one, and that's it. One quad shot. So
tell me about this quad shot because I'm a coffee
drinker, but I don't even know what that is.
Oh, well, it's four shots of espresso and a little
bit of milk and you put it in a steamer and you
got a quad shot latte. I got hooked on it. Oh,
back in the 90s, I guess when I was managing
an attraction and you don't have time to sit
around and drink coffee all day. Get loaded and
go. I love it. I love it. Just get loaded and
go. I love it. I'm actually a big fan of coffee
myself. You and I were talking earlier about
pets. I'm walking this shepherd I got, this puppy
shepherd. I walked him three miles today. So
I said I have to at least walk him a mile and
a half, two miles a day. But I walked him three
miles. But my motivation is the coffee shop in
between. That's what gets me going is that coffee
shop. But thank you, Phil, for being here today.
And I know that this is going to be a really
enlightening conversation for a lot of people
because you've had 45 years of experience in
attractions and in experience and culture design.
And I'm curious if you don't mind me just jumping
into some questions for you. Oh, let's go. If
you wouldn't mind, you know, one of the things
that I'm curious about is we know that today's
visitors. visitor experience expectations are
fundamentally changing. And this is something
that we kind of talked about in our pre -show
conversation. And what do you believe is maybe
the most critical shift that attractions must
address right now? We're just jumping right into
this. I'm going to say anticipating needs. The
only way you can do that is to know what the
expectations are and what the needs are to begin
with. You have to be in touch with the customer
before they even get there. Your marketing department
will try to do that. They will try to put out
messages that your brand postulates and says,
if you come here, we will make you feel like
this. Everyone needs to know. The brand promise,
because you know what? You're the brand promise
keeper. You have to keep the promise of what
the brand has said. You know, if you come to
our attraction, this is how you will feel. We
will make you feel great about the time you spent
with us, the money you spent with us, the choice
that you made. And here are the activities and
things, different parts of the experience we
have for you. And if everybody is in tune with
what the brand promise is and how they keep the
promise themselves, working at this area or that
area and anticipating the needs of the guests.
You know, it's like one place I worked, we were
doing so well, we wanted to find out, we wanted
to figure out the questions that go through people's
minds as they were in different parts of them.
So, you know, we had a customer focus committee.
And once we found these things out, we started
finding ways to answer everything that was in
people's minds with a yes. So before they answered
the questions, we knew what they were, and we
had already fixed or found our way to yes through
the questions that were already in their minds
and coming. So what is your question? The answer
is yes. Wouldn't that be nice if we could do
that for everyone? Well, you can. There's barriers
from time to time to procedures and operations
and budgets to say yes to everything. But there's
also alternative ways to say yes or no, but we
can do this or let me offer you this. There's
always ways to anticipate need. I guess the answer
to the question would be learn how to anticipate
needs, find out what people want, and give. Yeah,
and I love what you said about the brand promise.
I don't think I've ever heard it put that way
before today. And I've heard people say, keep
the agreements that your marketing team is making.
I've heard that before, and I've heard that.
And, and, and I I've never actually, I really
love it. You said your team, your frontline team
is the promise keepers, right? That's such a
huge. Mind -blowing thing for me right now because
I've never heard it put that way, but it is so
true. At the end of the day, you know, your marketing
is promising these experiences. They're promising
that they will feel a certain way and your team
needs to be aligned with that so they keep that
promise that your attraction or your experience
is making with regards to that. And you've emphasized
in your work experience design, right? And I'm
assuming that when we talk about, we're not talking
about the actual design of the experience, but
this experience design from the perspective of
your frontline staff or of your team members.
And while I know a lot of attractions are doing
a really great job at this. In fact, one of my
colleagues, Tiffany, was just out at IAPA at
an IAPA event last week at Holiday World. She
was just blown away by. the frontline staff and
the, the care that they took with each and every
person that was there and how much they exceeded
the expectations of maybe that brand promise
that they were making. And, and I mean, we, we,
we thought we saw it all, but we had never been
to holiday world. And she's telling me that she's
like, you gotta go. Cause this is incredible
what they've done, but you know, what is one
tangible. action attraction operators can take
in designing these experiences? And how do they
routinely exceed new visitor expectations like
that? If that's something that you're not already
doing, what would be that one thing that you
would say they could do? Well, of course, it
has to be customer focused, employee involved
with continuous process improvement. There is
no such thing as a SOP anymore. There hasn't
been an SOP in 25 years, I think. If you're still
using them, you need to smack yourself and wake
up. We are now using current best practices.
The current best practice is something that,
as a team, we all agree upon is the best way
to get this done today. And until we find another
and better different way, we'll all agree to
live with this one. And this is how we do what
we do. You know, like I say, as a team moving
forward, and that has a lot to do with the internal
culture. I mean, if there's one thing that you
have to focus on is what happens inside definitely
gets reflected outside. I actually used to test,
not test, but survey my own employees on their
experience, months and months. As a matter of
fact, I had a large firm. outside firm do the
guest experience expectations and surveys as
well. For the same period, of course, I would
break it down for the employees. And then once
I got the two different surveys back, you know,
it's so tough to get into the 90s when you're
talking about guests, but it's even tougher to
get into the 90s of meeting and exceeding expectations
for employees. So what we found was there was
a 10 -point difference between my employee satisfaction
and my guest satisfaction. And we started, we
were kind of in the 80s, you know, the upper
70s and 80s with the employees. And the guests
were in the 80s, upper 80s, I would say, because
this was a free attraction. However, it was also
very traditional. I've been around the city for
a long time, for several generations. I went
there when I was in kindergarten, and I ended
up being over 100 people in the operations when
I was in my 30s. So 10 -point correlation we
found when we got the highest we ever got. Now,
this took us three seasons. From our employees,
it was an 87. You know, 87 % of people said,
wow. you know this is really cool this is we
love working here and this is great and it's
exceeding my expectations are it's exactly what
i thought it would be one of the two and now
we got to 97 with the guest experience we realized
a long time before that year that the employee
experience actually drove the guest experience
higher When we got our employee experience, we
knew because we had to wait for that one because
it was an outside big firm to come in like seven,
eight weeks later. After the end of July, we'd
get it in like September or late August. But
after a while, we kind of knew it was coming,
which was really cool. But it took a while to
get there, you know, and then generations of
change. There's generations of change that you
have to go through and people will change. You
know, change is not easy. Change management is
a very tough subject and a hard thing to go through.
But as a leader, you know, you have to realize
that getting to yes and exceeding expectations
or at least meeting them every time for every
guest is really the goal. And there's so much.
There's so much reward in that. The higher we
got with guest experience, the higher the gift
shop sold, the more there was in retail sales.
People bought more food. They found that they
had more time where we would eliminate dead spots
in our experience where we had problems with...
transportation or things that took time that
shouldn't have taken time, we fix those problems
over time with problem -solving teams. Once again,
it was the employee involvement. You can get
there. It takes a leader that knows how. It takes
a leader who maybe has done it before or at least
has been on the other side trying to get it fixed
from the inside and might have been frustrated
in his or her own right. or come in from somewhere
else so it can be done it can be done i i can
tell you i've done it well i think it's really
interesting that you said that the correlation
between the employee satisfaction and yeah action
right like that is something that i think a lot
of A lot of operators maybe aren't looking at,
right? I mean, if I'm being completely real,
I'm hearing this for the first time. I've worked
with hundreds of attractions. And I can see where
that makes sense because it is the employees
who are providing a lot of the experience. They
make up a bit of the experience. So, of course,
they're feeling about. their workplace environment,
the culture that they're in certainly would play
a role. I could see in how the guest experience
is and what the guest expectations are. And you
kind of highlighted the correlation between internal
culture and guest expectations, which is what
I think you're saying there. What is maybe the
strongest indicator that attractions internal
culture is truly set up for success. Is there
some sort of indicator of that? Low turnover.
Low turnover. Our industry is set for 70 % turnover.
Just normal. We have peaks and valleys. We have
seasons where we... Staff down, we staff up.
It's going to be easily 70 % turnover. You'll
find places that have 200 % turnover, and that's
not good, you know, when you think about it.
Although core group of employees may stay, all
these other around keep turning and churning.
Well, you know, a guest doesn't know who's turned
and churned. A guest doesn't know who's core.
And they're getting different experiences, different
feelings, different. I don't know, different
impressions from other people who are new and
constantly in training or maybe they picked the
wrong or it's too hot that day or it's just a
nasty time for them. You know, with turnover,
you're going to have to suffer through, you know,
not meeting expectations very well. So internal
culture keeps good people. It keeps good people.
And I also found out that the best recruiting
that you can do is from the people that you have
that are part of that get it. I found that they
don't want to bring people in that won't make
it. They want other people to be happy at work
like they are. you know if they need some skills
hey they need some skills we can deliver that
in training you know i think that's part of it
too you know when when you talk about bringing
people into an organization the orientation and
the training has to be done well it can't be
slap hazard it can't be every 30 days you know
because on day 31 guess what somebody just started
what they're going to hang around for three weeks
without training no it has to be available and
constant uh in in the latest of which what we
know so it has to be available has to be constant
has to be excellent and and it has to have everything
involved with it that you need them to know um
without necessarily having to sit 25 people down
or 10 people down and go through some slides
and do the whole thing. You know, there's other
ways to do that now. And I do a lot with online
learning right now. And it's the preference of
the younger generations to begin with. And, you
know, they don't have to go somewhere and sit
and listen and not get paid on the day off or
something like that. It's not, that's not a good
thing. So there's so much, you know, have it
available. consumable, you know, kind of the
way they want to consume it and done by a professional
who understands about learning. Yes. It's particularly
important now post -COVID because we can't ask
people to watch a screen for more than five seconds
without changing that screen one way or another.
Yeah. They just won't. They can't do it anymore.
Well, I mean, it's so much distraction, right?
Like, so as somebody who's training teams or
leading teams, you're right. You've got to meet
them in a place where they are wanting to do
this. Exactly right. It's online, right? Distractions.
How do you keep their attention? How do you keep
them engaged? And, you know, I'm a big fan of
learning management systems, I think is what
you're referring to, you know, because you can.
Keep score. I'm in the process of getting a beast
of a certification right now. And it's harder
than anyone I've ever done before. But the LMS
that they're using and the way that they're presenting
the information, it makes it easy, right? Yeah,
it should. That's learning design. I mean, a
professional did that. It's not a mistake. It's
how... It's what we know works right now and
that changes. So, you know, learning professionals
keep up and don't waste your time or money. That's
important to find somebody who knows what they're
doing, not just somebody who's done some training
in the past and can stand up and talk through
slides. Those days are pretty much gone. Well,
you know, it's interesting because I don't know
if you know this about me. I introduced a product.
um to iapa back in 2019 it was called the uh
you know what i don't know why i'm drawing a
blank we got a we essentially got an award for
a uh actually i still have it on my desk we got
a brass ring for employee management system now
um it was it was an mvp So that was 2019, November,
2019. So 2020 happened and literally it became
a back burner project for us. And then also not
something a lot of parks were investing in, in
2020 because they were trying to save their parks.
So it was a nice to have, not a must have to
your point. You know, one of the things that
we were looking at when we were building this
management system, and I hope to, I hope to,
to make that, Something that at the very least,
I hope somebody designed something like this
out there because it was such a great idea and
it gamified the training, you know, and this
is the generation that's coming. You know, they
want to get achievements. They want, even today,
when I finished my walk with my dog, my phone
sent me a thing saying, you just got an award
for four weeks of consistent walks. Right. And
I was so proud of that. And it's like, who, who,
nobody knows this, but me, but I'm like screenshotting
it and wanting to post it on the internet. You
know, I was proud of that. So I see your point,
your point of training needs to be happening
every day, almost with your team. And if you
can make it accessible to them, I mean, even
if it's just a little bit of something, maybe
you just have them watch a video today on how
to make a, a guest happy. Right? Because I think
what you're saying is it doesn't come naturally.
It's that easy. And it's also, we used to have
line -up meetings, we call them, in the morning
first before opening. It was only five, ten minutes,
but it was something. Sure. It was something.
If you didn't have a thought, we gave you the
thought for the day. Right. It was checking off.
It was not only taking attendance, it was also.
Checking where everybody was and making sure,
you know, that either a lead or a supervisor
or somebody who was holding the meeting, which
is not really a forum meeting, it was a stand
-up thing, was pointing north for today. Here's
who's coming. We know about these groups. We
know about this. We know about that. VIPs, here's
what's going on. Anything else? You know, anything
new or different about the transportation? Does
anybody have any questions? Anybody want to bring
anything up? Let's, okay, ready, you know, go
through it all, whatever it takes, and just go.
It was just a contact point every day. And I
know at attractions that are open, you know,
12, 15, 16 hours a day, it's a rotation of employees
from time to time. So there's different ways
to communicate to people. Sometimes it's the
blackboard. Sometimes it's the electronic. screen
that goes across. Sometimes it is quick video.
So I think that the mix matters just as well
as the delivery and the message. Yeah. And you've
got to make it fun today, right? Like fun workplace.
Fun workplace. And you will learn what fun is
if you just keep asking. Well, I'm curious. You've
mentioned discovery visits. Do you mind telling
us a little bit about that? Sure. I work for
cities often. For instance, the city of Cleveland,
Ohio, has hired me to come in. Oh, this was 2015.
Just an example. People didn't want to come downtown
anymore. They hadn't been coming downtown because
it wasn't safe or this or that. It's just dirty.
And they heard these stories. And people who
live 20 minutes away in the suburbs hadn't been
there for like 10, 15 years, you know. Maybe
sneak in for a ball game to watch the Cleveland
ball team or the football team. And then back
out and never come back down and never spend
money around the parks or anything like that.
So they said, Phil, one of the things I do, the
Discover visits, I insist on going to the city,
of course, and spending time. Walking around
and being a visitor and seeing how people make
me feel, that's the experience part of it. How
do they feel? How do they make you feel? Where's
the level of hospitality that's happening here?
And so give me an itinerary for two days and
a typical guest to your town would have, and
I'm going to do it. I'm going to go everywhere
and do everything that you told me that needs
to be seen. And I'm not necessarily looking for
the quality of the food. Or the attraction safety
or anything like that. But I'm looking for how
are people interacting? How are workers interacting
with guests? And, you know, it was interesting
that some of the city have problems with transportation.
And that was really, really obvious. Cabs were
not that good. So your first impressions were
not good. And then, you know, I learn from that.
I also make sure that I interview workers. For
instance, I would ask for three or four different
spots where I could interview three different
workers at each place. Now, I want to meet, if
they can arrange this, when we talk to the management,
say it's a hotel, I want to meet a star. Okay,
somebody who's always doing the great things
that outperforms others. I want to meet a solid
citizen, a person who, that person is the kind
of person that when you interviewed them, they'll
say things like, well, I change my oil every
3 ,000 miles in my car. That's a solid citizen.
They're going to be there for you every time.
No high highs, no low lows. You can give them
the keys and they'll put the coffee on. First
thing in the morning before anybody gets there.
It's a solid citizen. And then another, I want
to meet a problem child. We all know what that
means. Someone who kind of skates the line of
what's acceptable and what's not, and what's
acceptable and what's not, and kind of gets along
that way. Fine. You know what? All three of them
have different needs for learning. And when I
sit with each one separately, okay, I hand them
the questions. There's only three or four questions,
really. A few questions to get them talking about
themselves. Why do they do what they do? What's
in this for you? What has to be part of a job
for you? I get them to talk. And then the final
question is, we're going to build a training
program from scratch here. What do you want?
What's got to be in it for you? And I get those
answers. And, you know, sometimes they'll surprise
you. Sometimes they'll really surprise you. Sometimes
the problem child is a thinker. And you never
knew that. Nobody's asked them what they thought.
Sometimes, you know, the solid citizen says,
I don't know, I think everything's just fine.
But this is not for me, but this is for those
other people. They need this and they need that.
And the new people are different than I am or
they're younger than me and that generation doesn't
get this. So make sure that's in it. So we get
all those listed and correlated and jumbled up.
And you can see the highest need, the medium
need, and then the kind of ones that are all
over the place. And you make sure that's part
of the training program. And you make sure they
know that you listened and that it's in there.
That's so much that goes so far with people.
You know, you can't just promise. or set the
expectation and not meet it. You know, I want
to exceed that expectation. I want to do that
in a much more professional way than they've
ever seen it done before. So it inspires them
to do that themselves. So, yeah, my discovery
visit, I'll also meet with stakeholders in a
city, you know, people that own the attractions,
people that are restaurateurs, people that are
hoteliers. There's usually sometimes, you know,
in those cities. that are more advanced as far
as owning their own visitor experience, they'll
have a committee like that beside their board.
They'll have a committee like that of members
or partners that are partners of the visitor
experience to Cleveland. And they did. They have
one there too. So pretty much the same question.
What do you need in this training program? So
you got to get it all. Get them all involved.
Get the information. Make sure you use it. Quite
honestly, 90 % of the time, I kind of know what
they're going to say. But it's that 10%, you
know, it's that 10 % difference that really makes
the shining star of what this training program
is different for and better than what people
have seen before. So the discovery visit is very
important. Yeah, and it's interesting. What I
love, you know, you said earlier in the show
that, you know, we're not doing SOPs anymore.
We're doing best practices. And it seems to me
that those are living things because as you pull
the team over and over again, you're going to
get different answers as times and generations
of people change. And then also as like the next
generation of people. you got to anticipate a
whole different need in terms of training. And
I mean, I look at how my kids learn today and
it is so different than how I learn. Right. And
so I, I hear what you're saying. Oh yeah. It's,
it's, it's so true. You know, not only that,
but the, the worker has changed. The generations
have changed in my training programs. I include
one. one five -minute lesson on generational
differences. You know, we have to address it.
It's there. And it helps. It helps people with
the generational differences. And it's not just,
I don't talk about generational differences between
coworkers as much. I talk about generational
needs of guests, different needs, the baby boomers
that are 60 to 80. They may be traveling with
three generations. They may have a grandchildren,
their children themselves. So their needs are
different than Gen Z who's just starting to travel,
get out there on their own, or millennials who
are having small children or still kids in grade
school or even high school. and they're getting
around it's different so um you know that's uh
generations have a lot to do with it expectations
and how they're raised and how the world changed
them as they grew up and it's an important investment
in time yeah i think i think that's really an
a great point to bring up and one thing that
we've done in our in our home is our kids are
all sudbury kids so they're mixed ages throughout
their entire education They're always mixing
ages, including, you know, working side by side,
the staff. And one of the things that I've noticed
is, you know, the, and I appreciate you bringing
it up. There is a little bit of ageism that happens,
right? Not just younger generations, but also
older generations. And you're right. It is such,
I've never had anybody come on the show and mention
that, Hey, we've got to consider the different
generations that are visiting the park because
their needs are different for sure. if you've
got three generations traveling together, they're
going to have different needs than somebody who
just has, you know, a stroller for little kids,
which I've been there too, right? Yeah. And it
does change the experience. based on the group
of people who are coming, but also, you know,
having your team educated on how they can best
deal with that. We were, we, I just did a meetup
over at Morgan's Wonderland, amazing place. It's
the most inclusive park today. And they see a
lot, they have a lot of families who have children
with disabilities and they don't, they have a
quiet room that they don't announce to the public.
Cause they're like, everybody would want to be
in this room all day, right? But. All of their
team members have been trained to, when they
see someone having a hard time and needing that
space, every single team member knows that they
can show them that space. Yeah, you have to recognize
first. It's so important. Another lesson I have
in my programs is social inclusion. And you just
said it, recognize. and know the resources and
uh you know know how to help folks and and the
people who've done so much work in this is uh
i have to say museums you know museums have focused
so much on special needs for a long time now
and um i really admire you know the time and
uh budget and that they've taken in the amount
of effort that they've taken to make sure that
everyone is taken care of as far as they can
possibly see. So they've been out there for a
long time now. Good place to benchmark, by the
way. Well, I heard it put a very interesting
way. I am a delegate for a team that is helping
open the Outlier Center of Inclusive Design at
Cambridge University out in Cambridge in the
UK. And what was interesting is one of the professors
said one time, he said, when we design to include
everybody, what you're really thinking about
is all of our future self, right? The end of
the day. So, I mean, this should be something
that everybody is considering always, right?
Because we're all at some point are still going
to have these experiences and hope that people
know how to take care of us when we get there
and that that's there for us. Well, I know we're
bumping up against time, but I really wanted
to hear from you on the Hope at Home program.
I know that you provided over 7 ,500 certificates
to unemployed workers during COVID. And I know
people get so tired of hearing about the pandemic,
but that was such an interesting time for so
many people, especially entrepreneurs like myself.
and people who had to be out there and figure
out what we were going to do. And what you did,
7 ,500 people for 7 ,500 unemployed workers,
I think we've got to showcase that here today.
Oh, thank you. It's just what you said. How are
we going to make this? What's going to happen
here? I had 7 ,500 contacts on my LinkedIn pages
and my LinkedIn friends. And toward the end of
COVID, I had 1 ,500. Our industry, the tourism
industry itself, lost 75 % of our workers. The
money comes from tourism, from hotels, taxes
handed over to DMOs that manage the cities or
manage the destinations. And those people are
gone. And what did they have to take with them?
Not much, you know. And I thought, you know what,
I have done a lot of management development training
over the years, not just within this industry,
but in other industries, Fortune 100 companies,
Fortune 500 companies. I mean, you name it, religious,
not -for -profits. Even places that, you know,
the gas company, the electric company, from managers
and supervisors. And I just thought it was time
for me to share that with everyone. And so my
videographer and I got together. I says, listen,
I, you know, I can't rent a studio and pay an
actor right now. let's figure out how to do something
right here at my own house. We put a studio together.
He knew exactly what I needed to buy. I did it.
I started recording myself. I took those programs.
I put them up live on my learning management
system that I built from my, had built from me
and my clients only and started promoting that,
you know, these people needed some skills that
maybe they didn't have in the jobs they had before.
And it's just encouragement, you know, to me.
on coaching skills, how to work with others,
how to do interviews. You know, one of the big
things I put on there, I did about 800 interviews.
You know, when you have a lot of seasonal employees,
you're going to do a lot of interviews. So I
really got into behavioral interviewing skills
and how to do that well and how to choose people
or how to slot people or how to put them in the
right place for them to be more successful based
upon their answers and what they did in the past.
When you know what you're going to dip them in,
you want to know if they've been dipped in it
before and how they reacted, because that's what
they're going to do when they work for you. So,
you know, things like that, just to put through
to people and say, by the way, you're going to
be on the other side of this interview now. And
here's what interviews that I've trained, interviewers
that I've trained, are looking for. We want to
hear, we want to hear. Exact information. We
don't want things to be vague. If you're going
to tell me a story, I want to hear stories. I
want to hear the titles. I want to hear what
time of year it was. I want to hear what the
problem was. I want to hear how you fixed it
or how you didn't fix it, how you failed, and
you learn from that. So be specific. These are
the things we learn for when we do interviews.
So I'm turning the tables and teaching people
how to do that. So it caught on. which was nice.
I also was networking within a lot of different
Facebook groups and because the industry started
forming their own self -help groups, which was
cool, you know? And so I got in there, I started,
you know, showing people what I was doing and
the word spread and they started taking it, which
was pretty, I don't know, it made me feel good.
I did something that helped other people, and
that's pretty much what I do. I help people,
whether it's frontline skills or management skills,
so that they can enjoy the work themselves. My
gosh, if you don't love what you're doing in
this industry, it's going to show. It's going
to wear. Yeah, because it's not easy. Look, the
work that's being done in this industry, we all
know it's not easy. We were just talking about
it. We were talking about it earlier today. We
don't see a lot of the operators watching live
during the summer, the wintertime we do, but
in the summer, because they're actually out there
doing the hard work that it takes to allow people
to visit, to have the thousands of visitors in
their parks and attractions, just the sheer work
of what they do, what they do. I've been in this
industry for 25 years, not quite 45 yet, but
I hope to get there. And I have plenty of friends
who are working in parks. And I know not to bug
them until September. Right. Right. It's just
the way that it is. They're they're doing their
thing. And it's it's not an easy thing. But if
you love what you do and so many of them do love
what they do. And I think a lot of that comes
from what you've shared today. You know, training
your team, providing them with the right resources
to make them feel confident. We know one of the
reasons that when we started building our learning
management system. that gamified it. One of the
reasons that that was so important to us is because
we knew that the reason most people quit their
job is because they're, it's not even because
they're unhappy with the culture. Oftentimes
they don't know, they're not confident in what
they're doing. You know, what a place to be.
Yeah. I hear you. It's, it's a part of the reason
why I went into this. I, you know, in my earlier
days in high school and college, I worked at
places. within the industry that I was, you know,
travel and tourism industry that I was going
to school for. And I was, I would say I was victim
of so many poor managers, you know, and however
I, you know, persisted. And I knew that, you
know, I was getting good formal training for
management and all that through my college degree
in travel, transportation and tourism. And I
didn't want other people to go through that.
I don't like when people cut their teeth on other
people. Yes. It's not good. It's not good. And,
you know, so often it's just because they don't
know how to do better. That's all they've ever
seen. And that's unfortunate. So, you know, making
training and education on behaviors and skills
and your approach and what's your natural management
style when it comes down to it under pressure,
what do you really like? And then learning how
to know the difference between different management
styles and be the kind that you need to be for
the situation you're in. That really matters.
And that's a talent, and it takes practice. So
if you don't even know about it, how could you
possibly know how to move up and down the dial
of management style to situational management?
And that's a key. And that's, that takes, there's
a, you may have a budget to train people in management
like that. I think, I think if I'm hearing you
correctly, and I think I am, nobody, my husband
says this all the time. Nobody wants to, nobody,
no kid on the planet is going to say I want to
grow up and be managed. That's not something
when you ask a kid what they want to be when
they grow up, nobody says managed. And I think.
What you're saying and what this really embodies
is also that coaching side of things. People
want to be coached. That's what training is.
That's what coaches do. They train you. They
train you. Coaching skills has been the number
one hottest topic for the last 25 years since
the late 90s easily. No, nobody wants to be managed.
Gen X did not want to be managed. They blindsided
me. They didn't think like me. They didn't want
to work like me. They didn't. I mean, they had
things to do after five o 'clock, man. We got
to go stick around, have beers and pizza with
you. You know, things to go. It's kind of blindsided
me. So I looked into the different generations
and I learned a lot from that. And, you know,
it's it takes work to be able to change your
management style. It takes work and you're going
to make mistakes. But you have to pursue. You
have to keep trying. And when you try to introduce
change into an organization, you really need
all those skills at your fingertips when it comes
to that. Because some people just ain't going
to like it. Right. Well, you know what? I appreciate
you coming on the show today. I appreciate this
conversation very much because one of my big
red flags is when I hear someone say, I can't
find any good people. And the truth is, is, you
know, my own leadership style changed when I
heard somebody say that, you know, my job as
a leader was to ensure the success of other people.
And that meant teaching them the ways, not necessarily
manage them. In fact, many of them have their
own styles on how things can get done. Like you
said, pull in the room and seeing if there are
better ideas because as time changes, better
ideas are going to keep coming up. And you just
got to be a little bit ahead of people. And that
was something that you and I talked about a little
bit earlier today before the show was just really
being able to lead people. You just got to be
a little bit ahead of them. But that means you
got to keep learning. Absolutely. Because they
change, too. The world changes. The people change.
You know, I actually did coaching skills for
the St. Louis Cardinals and the St. Louis Blues
in the town where I live. I didn't do it for
the team or the coaches. I did it for all the
ushers that managed all the other ushers. How
to coach, how to be there, how to catch people
doing things right, how to be there when they
need help to do things better and being present
and the language that you can use instead of,
you know, the finger pointing or the other things
that people have grown up and learned. to do
because that's what people did to them. You know
what I'm saying? That's very important, particularly
in the hotel industry. There's a cultural change
that needs to be happening there. And some people
are getting it and some people aren't. And I
think that the ones who are going to get it are
going to survive and the ones who don't get it
are going to struggle. Yeah, I agree. Well, on
that note, Phil, thank you so much for being
here today and sharing. You're welcome. your
wealth of knowledge with us. If there's anybody
watching and we'll make sure to also include
this in the show notes. So the audience has access
to it, but what's the best way for them to reach
you? Oh, fill it. Treat them right. Dot com T
R E A T E M R I G H T .com. Just go to treat
them right. Dot com. There's all kinds of stuff
there for you. Go to the news section. If you
want to see some of the latest blogs. We've got
a cool thing going in the state of Mississippi
right now. We just trained over 700 people in
six months with my online programs. That's pretty
cool for them. And, yeah, and you'd be surprised
how wide and varied the different types of people
are in the state of Georgia that are in the system,
from police, people that own car washes, the
insurance companies are taking this training
because it's. It's kind of like free customer
experience training for folks like that. Yeah,
that's amazing. And thank you for doing that.
And I love the name, Treat Them Right. Thank
you. That's really how it should be. So it's
kind of simple. Yeah, I love it. Well, thank
you again for being here. I'll see you soon.
Thank you. All right, folks, I hope you enjoyed
that show as much as I did today. I think that
we've been so blessed to have some incredible
guests on this show sharing a wealth of knowledge.
I mean, 45 years in hospitality is quite an accomplishment.
And we have probably a lot more that we could
learn from Phil, but only had an hour with him,
50 minutes with him. But I'm so glad that we
could share this information with you today,
if you are somebody like Phil. Who has information
that will help attractions and the hospitality
world be better at what they do. I would love
to have you on the show. And the best way to
reach us to get on the show is to visit LiveWithSondra
.com. There's a guest form there that you can
go submit your request to be a guest. And when
you submit a request to be a guest, that goes
to our team. And we look at whether or not you'd
be a good fit for the show. And almost always,
if somebody takes that first step, in fact, we
were talking about this backstage today that,
you know, we had a lot of people who approach
us to be on the show. But the ones who actually
take that step to fill out the form and come
on the show, it's because they've got something
to share with the world. And we know that you
do have something to share with the world. We
know that we can help each other out in this.
business of hospitality and yeah, just forever
grateful for those who are generous enough with
their time to share that. Because if you listen
to today's show and you even implemented the
few simple things that we talked about that are
actionable, you can do, this doesn't cost you
anything to just. make some some basic changes
like talking to your team about what would help
them be better trained and to be better at what
they do or maybe even enjoy the workplace or
if you looked at the correlation between how
your team and your guests happiness should be
on the same trajectory right so great guest today
i want to thank you all for listening for for
watching. If you're watching this on replay hashtag
replay, so that we know you are here. And, uh,
if you are listening on the podcast networks,
appreciate you appreciate your listening. And
if you, uh, if you get a chance, make sure to
stop by, follow us on YouTube, live with Sandra
.com. And we appreciate the team who puts this
show together. So there's just a lot of love
happening today. It's a Monday. So I wake up
every Monday, really excited to start my week
and to have guests like this. Like I say it all
the time. I want to be all big brained one of
these days. I already am, but here we go. All
right, guys, take care. I'll see you on the next
live with Sondra.