Welcome to closer to Christ through general conference
where two friends who love Jesus share our own
approach to studying the most recent general
conference talks. This is Abby and Amy. Let's
jump into it. Today we get to discuss Remembering
the Sheep by Elder William K. Jackson of the
Seventy. Welcome! We're so happy you're here
with us today. This is a great talk to focus
on. Elder Jackson spoke on the power of enacting
two principles, the principle of counting and
accounting as we minister to those in our circle
of influence. He reminds us Christ is the good
shepherd. Each one of the flock is precious to
him. He patterned shepherding and taught us by
word and deed the qualities of a good shepherd,
including knowing your sheep by name, loving
them, finding those that are lost, feeding and
ultimately leading them back home again. He expects
us to do the same as his under shepherds. I love
that, Abby. Thank you. I feel more and more that
as we take a second pass, you know, on these
conference talks and as we share this with our
listeners, it's really more about remembering
than it is about teaching, right? It's just remembering.
We are reminded of the worth of every soul. We're
reminded how much God loves every person on this
earth. This means me. This means every person
hearing these words today. And it means every
person that crosses our path. I think under shepherds,
it's such a powerful word because it reminds
us that we are not the shepherd and that we are
led by the good shepherd. And he really is the
best example, Jesus Christ. When you say that,
are you saying that it's stuff that we all already
learned under his tutelage and it's just a matter
of remembering that we already knew that it resonates
with the soul? Almost just like just reminding
us, hey, like we're not in charge. We're the
under shepherds here. Sometimes. Um, I'm a duty
person and like when I get my orders, I move.
I like just, and I want to follow through, right?
But when I remember, hey, Amy, you're an under
shepherd. So don't get stressed out when things
quote, don't work out. Don't think that you've
let everyone down and all is lost. You're an
under shepherd, which means the most powerful
being, the creator of all, he's really your boss.
It just, I don't know, for me, it just helps
me put things into perspective. Remember where
I am and I don't need to have the weight of everything
on my shoulder. If I'm feeling overwhelmed, take
a step back, pray and ask what's next. What part
can I do? Because this can feel like a lot, right?
Yeah. Oh, it can feel like a lot. I do know that
he has the power to take... things that are over
burdensome and lighten our load, because we have
been promised, like, you know, you can yoke yourself
with him. I felt the power in yoking myself with
him. I have tried to carry weight by myself.
It's hard. It's exhausting. And it's never quite
as good as like, I thought like, oh, I could
do this on my own. Why do I want to do it on
my own after I have the experience? This is like
any project that I'm strapped myself into. If
I can't get my husband on board to do it with
me, I'm not that interested. If I've got Him
doing most of the, you know, I get to have the
ideas and He does the execution, those are the
kind of projects I like to do. So, I can definitely
appreciate this. God's in charge. He sets the
example, and He tells me, you know, I have my
little part in it, but the whole project's not
mine to do. So good. We have the Scriptures for
many examples. We can learn much about ministering
in the Lord's way from the ancient prophet and
exceptional shepherd, Moroni. He lived during
a very difficult time, not having the benefit
of cell phones, computers, and the internet.
He managed somehow to keep track of his sheep.
How do you think he did this?" Well, we get a
glimpse into this, into his methodology in Moroni
6. This is where we read that members were numbered
among the people of the Church of Christ and
their names were taken, that they might be remembered
and nourished by the good word of God to keep
them in the right way. The Church did meet together
off to fast and to pray and to speak one another.
counseling the welfare of their souls. That reminds
me a lot of like a ward council or a good ward
council. Right? Like modeling how they should
work, right? If one's a well -oiled machine.
What we're all striving for, a ward council.
For Moroni, it was all about people. Like when
they say their names were taken, that they might
be remembered. Names are so important. He practiced
the principle of counting and accounting so that
all would be remembered. Any who struggled or
wandered were noticed, allowing the saints to
discuss the welfare and councils. Like the shepherd
who left the ninety and nine, safe and secure,
I am certain, and went after the one that was
lost. We know of that from Luke 15, verse four
to seven. We've been asked to be just as aware
of our flocks to notice and remember and go and
do likewise. Being aware and noticing reminds
me of that talk Elder Bednar gave. It was 2005,
and he talked about being quick to observe. He
pointed out that observing is a spiritual gift
tied to discernment. We can pray and ask Heavenly
Father to help us discern others' needs or be
aware and remember them. And I think knowing
that that's a gift that we have the ability to
have, if you don't feel like you have it, You
pray for that one for sure. And a lot of that
kind of came up. We were talking about no one
sits alone. Some of us are just like getting
by, especially on Sundays and we do our thing
and then we get out of there. But when you have,
when you ask for the capacity to see people that
you wouldn't have otherwise noticed because you're,
you've got your own baggage to deal with. Um,
he can bless you with that. And I think that's
the, I think that's the name to the gift. Yeah,
I love that. quick observance. I don't know.
I don't know how to say that, but it's a good
one. Absolutely. Christ has organized His church
in such a way that it should be difficult to
forget a soul, for each is dear to Him. Every
individual in a ward, regardless of age or gender,
has a multitude of stewards, shepherds, who are
tasked with looking after them with remembering.
So, for example, a young man has assigned for
his well -being a bishopric, ministering brothers,
adult youth advisors, seminary teachers, quorum
presidencies, and then some. So all serving,
each one of these serves as a safety net strung
up firmly beneath that youth to catch him if
he falls. So even if just one net is properly
positioned, that young man will be safe, noticed,
and remembered. And yet often we don't even find
one net in place. People wander off routinely
into the mists and no one notices. So there are
a couple of good He asked, how can I be a better
shepherd? And another question that I had is
what nets do I have stewardship over? And this
kind of goes back to what we were just talking
about, Abby, at the very beginning when you were
like, hey, what does that mean? I think just
being aware that we have multiple nets, like
we're a steward over multiple nets is important,
like as a mother, right? Lots of things going
on, lots of nets. That can feel overwhelming.
I think putting into practice Sister Joy Jones'
principle of wearing many hats, remember that
I think was back in 2020, but it's not needful
to wear them all at once like we tend to think.
We can be mindful and prayerful about which hat
we will wear or what net we will focus on for
that day or for a few hours or just long enough
to send out a text letting someone know that
we are thinking of them. So again. If there's
that feeling of overwhelm, we know who we can
turn to. We can ask the Lord, who is the Prince
of Peace, and He can help us to be peaceful about
this. I love the list you gave, seminar teachers,
advisors, the ministering situation. Like you
said, a few of those maybe don't step in. It's
fine. We still have that safety net, but how
powerful it is. I've watched a lot of those examples
kind of weave into my children's lives. And,
you know, I mean, teenage years, you can have
conversations with your kids, but, like, just
having those young women's leaders, particularly,
I've got older daughters, so, and a boy that
just entered into the Young Men's Program, but
knowing that I have that extra layer of help
and support, they can say something to her that
just resonates in a different way. Oh, for sure.
They can read them in different ways. I want
them to grow, you know, spiritually, but... you
know, at a certain point, I don't want it to
look like harping, but if they've got responsibilities
because they're a class president and they're
reaching out or preparing lessons or giving talks
or preparing sacraments or whatever they're doing,
all of those are opportunities for, um, for all,
like, for me to, like, the burdens lifted so
much off of me by having some of these, you know,
people in place. I totally agree. The shit that
they can trust in. Uh, I mean, even the girls
They don't, maybe they're sort of a ministering
capacity there, but I've watched it in my girls,
they noticed the girls that aren't coming out
and, you know, as the presidents of their class
or whatever, they're thinking to look out for
that more and can reach out to them. You know,
we, like I, you have activity days, like not
that it's the hugest deal, it's kind of the fun
arm of things, but when kids aren't out to that,
we can reach out to them and say, hey, you know,
are we going to catch at this? We'll catch on
the next one. It gives us an opportunity to check
in on families that we might not have otherwise
had. Maybe they're not going to be like just
running to come to church every Sunday, but we
can start with something like that. And then
again, you're just another safety net of being
a face, a friendly face, a caring face, somebody
that cares about. about these kids in another
way. Yeah, and I really love the visual of a
safety net. I do too. I totally think of like
when you go to the, back in the day when you
go to the circus or see something like that and
someone's up on a tightrope. This is a wild ride.
Boom, yeah. Yeah, but they're still caught. And
they just bounce and they're good. Anyways, I
just like that because it reminds me that that
is the way that the Lord has organized His church
and that there are many safety nets put into
place. It just makes me happy. I love it. It's
something we can learn to count and account.
The church has in place a lot of tools to help
us do this. Quarterly reports, that's an example,
which allows us to count and account for each
member multiple times. And notice those who are
missing or need our help and our love. There's
something called the action and interview list.
I didn't know all these, Abby. You had a bishop
for a husband. This isn't my life. I've been
in a religious society and I do know you don't
want people to feel like they're a number, but
we do have a responsibility to. record names
and check things. And if you go to somebody and
they're like, I really don't want contacted,
they totally have that option to let you know
that and we can make notes. They don't want contacted,
but kind of like it when, you know, those notes
slip through the cracks and like this new eager
missionary knocks on some random door. Oh, I
didn't know that we weren't supposed to contact
you. Maybe the timing's right, you know, so that
I can be respectful of people's feelings, but
it's also like, just tell us not to come around
anytime that you want, but until you do, we have
a mandate by Heavenly Father to keep track of
his sheep and he considers you one of his sheep.
Um, we're, we're here for that. The action and
interview list identifies those who require attention
immediately. I'm hoping that that's happening
in ward councils. I haven't been to one for a
decade. At least the temple recommends status
report. You know, it might be like, why are they
bugging me about that again? But what a beautiful
thing. It's so easy for two years to go by and
not even think about it. And did you see on your
phone how you can just slide the thing over and
it says, be reminded for your temple recommend?
I think I did see that. I did that yesterday.
I was like, oh my gosh. So I slid it over. We
are on the same schedule, aren't we, August?
Yes. Because I feel like we were talking about
it because we just upgraded to the digital one.
Same. Yeah, I love it. It's amazing. So great.
My teenagers did as well and this is going to
be a huge blessing for them. Yeah, that's awesome.
Just be ready to go to the temple anywhere because
we always have our phones. Exactly, right? Counting
and accounting tools focus us in on people. So
I think that's some people's complaint is they're
like, well, I'm a number you're not enough I
mean it creates a statistic for us to look at
like we could do a lot better like it's easy
to be like Oh, you got 50 % ministering, you
know, that's yeah That's a good reminder to say
we can do a little bit better But at the end
of the day it lets us know Oh so and so hasn't
had a visit we can step in there because you
are numbered and named and you are important
to that bird exactly There's lists that allow,
like, help us to know who needs callings, who's
ready for priesthood advancement, who could maybe
use some help taking a family name to the temple.
Who could we be helping to prepare for a full
-time mission? Who was maybe missing this month?
These tools all help us to remember people, and
these questions seem like those that would be
used in word counsel as each president or quorum
of auxiliary sit around the table and work on
what is needed. for the people in the ward. Who's
ready for the next... Who's ready for their next
ordinance? Who's ready to make the next covenant
with God? We can say it in a lot of different
ways, but if we do it with love and with desire
to being an under -shepherd, we're not there
to gossip. We're not there to talk bad about
people that haven't been. We're there to love
them and help them in whatever way that they'll
accept our help. For sure. There's a way different
thing and a different feeling in talking about
someone and giving details that really no one
needs to be giving details about. There's something
different in saying this family needs our help.
What can we do? Do you know what I mean? That's
very effective when you do it the other way.
So we're actually going to jump in on this. So
Elder Jackson tells of a story of one of his
friends. He moved to a large city as a graduate
student and he was immediately put in as elders
quorum president. He was a little bit nervous
and he was asked to meet with the state president.
He wanted to go feeling prepared. So we had a
list of goals that were very data driven. When
he sat down the state president asked him this
question. Can you name a less active core member
who you could help get to the temple with his
family this year? And this question both caught
him off guard and also redirected his focus.
The stake president asked this question three
more times during the interview, and then it
was over. This young man walked out of that interview
having learned one of his greatest lessons on
leadership and ministering. He went into the
interview with programs, lessons and activities.
and he walked out with names. So I love that
too. It totally reminds me of President Monson
because he, one of his spiritual gifts was this.
He ministered to the one he focused on. I mean,
we all know his, how many was it? 88 widows.
I forget what the number was, but it was something
like, you know, like he was just so good at that.
It was just very strong. And he is someone who
knows names. You know what I mean? And I think
he also was the one who said, um, don't let a
program Gosh, get in the way of someone needing
to be loved. Don't let a program become more
important than a person to be loved or something.
So this again, not to say that numbers are um
obsolete yeah or that we don't need him no it's
just again there's a name attached to that number
and those names matter and they matter to him
and he wants to be able to record those names
in the temple yeah and if the lord was here he
has a perfect memory and he would know all of
these things in his little brain i mean in his
brain we don't have that so we do need the helps
but we also just need to remember that if the
lord were here how would he treat this one person
who's sitting across from so good yeah So good
to think about these tools that they provided
for us as a way to buffer that gap between his
perfect mind and what we're dealing with. Yeah.
Our memory. Our mortality. Our mortal brains.
It's a huge shift. You can see the difference
in coming a stewardship, coming into this role
as a steward, having your ideas and what best
approaches to take. being redirected to people
and names that maybe you can impact. Yeah, yeah,
we'll come, we'll come to these councils and
we'll have these names. Sometimes it like, it'll
resonate, it'll be like, oh, I can do this part
for that family. And some you'll have to let
go to others, you know, that have some stewardship
there. And they'll make the biggest impact. Sometimes,
you know, a young man, they they need the other
young men to invite them to basketball or something,
you know, there's there's starting ways to go.
You know, maybe once that's happening, maybe
the parents come out to the games, maybe at the
games, I'm impressed to go talk to those parents.
My little piece and part of that whole plan.
I think each of us could put into practice and
ask Heavenly Father for a name if we're feeling
overwhelmed with all of the things, all of the
people that we could be working with. Jesus is
a good shepherd, and because He's the good shepherd,
the one who needs our attention at the moment
is the one that He can direct us to. We can pray,
we can ask for strength, we can ask for capacity
to follow through on that prompting. I was so
moved thinking, you know, that he came out of
that interview with the stake president with
a list of names that the spirit spoke to him.
It makes it so different than like, here's this
list, get through the list, say that they've
been visited, check that box. It was so different
than that. It really makes a shift from, yeah,
we're counting them and they're on this list
somewhere, but at the end of the day, we're really
you know, the Spirit's told you that you have
the best chance to, I know that you're going
to be in their path at this moment and like,
make your shot. And maybe it won't be the thing
that like, turns the corner or turns their hearts
or gets them back to church, but it's another
manifestation of God's love for them. And a few
more, you know, accumulate those a few times.
Maybe the difference is made, you know, eventually.
Yeah. And like, it also just helps us to minister
in the Lord's way. That's a good point, Abby.
It takes practice. For sure it does, Abby. Oh
my goodness. I think more than anything, what
I took from this talk is that I can do better.
When I'm feeling overwhelmed, I can stop and
pray for guidance. Christ, like I was saying
before, is also the Prince of Peace. And having
peace in our hearts about who is in charge and
putting into perspective that we are under shepherds
or stewards is already helpful. I can pray and
ask how to make ministering more personal and
to see this person as Jesus sees them. I can
pray and ask what can I do to help? what can
I do today to help the name that came to mind?
It was funny because I have been, with my health
and stuff, I've really been out of the practice
of having people over. And as I was getting ready
for this talk and looking over it, I was thinking,
I was like, okay, Heavenly Father, are there
any names that have come? And a name came of
this cute couple in our ward, and I texted her
today and asked her. them to come over for soup
on Sunday. I was like so nervous afterwards because
it just felt like I really put myself out there.
And so exactly what you said before, it takes
practice. I'm out of practice right now. I've
done it a million times before for years and
years and years, but I've been out of practice
for a while and I'm like, oh wow, I haven't used
this muscle for a while. So it's time to jump
back on. But we had this conversation a couple
of weeks ago and you kind of had this intention
to invite somebody from the ward over every Sunday.
Yeah. For a meal. For a treat, what was your
thinking? Well, I was just going to do it simple.
That's why it's just soup. Soup sounds lovely.
I serve soup to my guests on Sunday. It's cold
outside, so I think it works. It's totally soup
season. And then it's going to be like cold deli
sandwich season after that. But I think it's
so cool. I don't know what your whole motivation
is for it. But, you know, after the conversations
come out and you get to know people on a deeper
level, who knows what all of those connections
are all about? Or maybe, you know, there'll be
the link to somebody else that, you know. I don't
know. I think it's so far reaching. I'm interested
to see like where this goes to. Yeah. Well, it's
funny too, Abby, that you say that because afterwards,
I don't know how I looked, but I saw that she
just got put in as a ministering sister to me.
Oh, stop. And she's like my daughter's age. So
she's probably thinking, I don't even know who
this old lady is. And now she'll get to know
me. What a blessing for her. She's gonna. For
real, there's a gal, Terry, and my grandma was
her ministering sister. I think she had gone
through a divorce. Maybe she was recently remarried,
and I think they ended up in a young woman's
presidency together. But there would have been
a 20, 30 -year gap of age there, and she was
talking to me about my grandma. you the other
day and emotional about it and like the love
that they have so the age age makes doesn't have
to be a thing right in the church but i love
that she's your ministering she you have a ministering
connection but you are reaching out to her to
help form that relationship and maybe she's like
i don't want to minister i don't love it maybe
she loves it maybe she's super excited about
it maybe she just got put in yesterday because
i literally just saw that today they did some
changes so you never know all of the reasons
but i think it's really cool that you've been
primed for that and that you feel like you have
the energy to do that like not like your sunday's
busy enough What's also cool is that you couldn't
cook there for a while, or you weren't cooking
there for a while. So he wasn't like, hey, you
should invite people over and then watch them
eat. Yeah, it's like a gentle nudge, right? Okay,
so Abby, do you have anything else that you want
to share or that you want to add to the conversation?
I love that you helped us remember. For me, this
is an overwhelming thing. I love to I love to
pray on people about people I love to get inspired
to do something for people then they switch to
this higher and holier way of ministering I'm
still assigned people I actually really like
people love the people that I'm ministering to
but it's always a little bit overwhelming like
Because it's like oh I've been I'm being forced
to have this relationship with you I wish that
there was a way to just like let people minister
in their way. Mm -hmm But because there does
have to be accounting, I always have to remind
myself, this is the Lord's way. He wants to know
which sheep have been fed, and He wants the people
that are, you know, another layer of that net
to know, oh, they were ministered to. There's
been nothing there. I can send them in a different
way. He just, for His children, He just wants
lots of layers of people protecting Him. He's
the Good Shepherd, but He's got lots of us out
there ready to help and, you know, bring back
on, usher back, invite back, go seek out if they're
missing. Um, and in, in a lot of ways when we're
those people doing that, it means that he's like,
you know, the 90 and is it 99 and one, when you're
busy about being, um, an underling or what do
you call them? A shepherd under shepherd. You're
not lost. You're actively involved in helping
keep the pack in. And so it's like. He has less
to worry about we're helping do the looking or
the watching out for he knows that we're in a
good place And it's good to be that sometimes
even though we've been that we do wander and
we do need somebody that's Primed and ready to
be the the under Shepard to come and look for
us. And so it's a give -and -take but At the
end of the day I can be overwhelmed by it because
I sometimes feel like it's all my it's all my
burden Yeah, but really this talk was good for
me because it just reminded me for that I've
got a small part and piece to it and what that
exactly looks like in any given minute can change.
And so if I take that to prayer, what part and
piece can I do for A, B, or C, or give me a name?
Who can I work with right now? Who can I reach?
What do my skills and capacity allow me to do
right in this moment? I've asked him before,
so I know that he can give me the answers to
that. So this talk, if nothing else, is just
reminding me It's a new year. It's time to reset.
Like, let's up our efforts administering in his
way and involve him in the process and just say,
what can I do to serve you right now? That's
great, Abby. Because yeah, one of the first feelings
that a lot of people get when they hear about
this is an overwhelm. Yeah. Same. Exactly. That
exactly articulates home feeling. There is a
quote that comes to mind from President Nelson.
He said, a hallmark of the Lord's true and living
church will always be an organized, direct effort
to minister to individual children of God and
their families. Because it is His church, we
as His servants will minister to the one just
as He did. We will minister in His name, with
His power and authority and with His love and
kindness. Like I said, like I agreed, it can
feel overwhelming, but when you're strapping
yourself, to our Savior Jesus Christ, who is
the perfect example of this and learning in His
way to serve as He served. Really, it can just
be seen as a neat opportunity for growth at that
point. Not a list of obligations and tasks that
we have to check off, but just kind of a general
change in our beings to just recognize what needs
to be done or to be impressed with what needs
to be done. Yeah, being aware. Like I can do
that. Well, I think he's so, he is so kind and
gentle rather than not involving him in the process
and then like looking at it and thinking of it
as a list and all of this thing you have to tackle
and you have to do this, do these things. It's
like people are an assignment. That was never
his intention in his way. So that is always going
to feel overwhelming when you do it his way and
with the spirit that he provides for us. I do
think it takes the overwhelm out and then you
can say that you're definitely doing it in his
way. It may be a phone call. It may be a text.
It may be a hello. Maybe just recognize him at
a church. Nice dress. Hey, could you help me
with this thing? Oh, that was a lovely testimony
you gave. I can't think of a million ways that
it was, but all of those little touches are way
more his way than scripted. Here's the lesson.
First Thursday of the month. Yeah. I agree. So
that's all I have. I love it. Thank you for sharing
that. I'm going to go ahead and close with his
testimony. He says, in the Church of Jesus Christ,
we've been instructed by prophets past and prophets
present. and by the pattern of our Savior, how
to minister. We take names, we remember, and
we counsel over the welfare of souls. Leaders
who do this will never run out of agenda items
in their council meetings. The principle of counting
and accounting works as the Lord's way. We can
do better. To God who created the universe and
rules over all, this work, His work in glory,
is very personal. And so it should be for each
of us, as instruments in His hands, in His amazing
work of salvation and exaltation, miracles in
the lives of real people. will result in the
name of Jesus Christ. Amen. Amen. Let me think,
a Facebook question I would maybe pose if we
were going to carry this on. I would love to
hear examples of how someone has remembered you,
how you've been touched by like ministering efforts
of somebody without really feeling like a ministering
effort. Yes, small and simple things basically
will help me see like, you know, it'll kind of
just give me some ideas of like, oh, that was
such a small and simple thing. I'd like to hear
stories in that way. Yeah. And what it's saying
is the times I felt like a person and I would
not a number. Yeah. I'm trying to say it that
way. Like, yes. When have I felt like one of
his lost sheep rather than a number, a name or
name on a list? So good. I love that. We'll see
what we can get out of that one. All right. We'll
see you guys next time. Have a good one.