Welcome to Closer to Christ, the General Conference,
where two friends who love Jesus share our own
approach to studying the most recent General
Conference talks. This is Abby. And Amy. Let's
jump into it. Talk Joy Through Covenant Discipleship
by Elder John A. McCune of the Seventy. I'm excited
to discuss this one with you, Amy. Thanks, Abby.
The title of the talk, it kind of says it all.
Elder McCune focuses on our personal relationship
with Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ and how
covenants and perspective make it possible to
experience joy even in the trials of our life.
First story of his talk is about a woman who's
named, beautiful name that I'm not going to destroy
here on radio. Uyanga. Oh, see, you're good.
Who was at work in the northern Mongolian city
of Darkin when the Mongolian mission president
entered a workplace? And she immediately notices
a light in his countenance. And he was very kind
to her. And she asked a few questions before
he left. And then a couple of days later, he
came back into her workplace and asked if she
wanted to attend church with him. And she accepted
the invitation, thinking of her children's future
and about her uneasiness of, you know, what was
happening in the world currently. And here are
the words that she said. Before I joined the
church, I watched General Conference and listened
to President Russell M. Nelson speak. He announced
new temples all over the world and said that
a new temple would be built in Mongolia. I rejoiced,
shed tears, and even though I did not understand
why, with this joy, I could tell that my faith
and testimony were growing. It's always interesting
to hear in people's own words what they feel
like when the Holy Ghost... pricks their hearts
something she didn't even know anything about
temple in mongolia she hears her country name
for some reason she doesn't know why but it bears
like a it pierces her heart and she knows something
something's different and unique about this experience
um i agree it's witnessing truth to their soul
exactly Elder McKeown touches on both Jesus Christ
and also Heavenly Father, and he breaks down
why we worship them and also why we are disciples
of Christ. He says, Jesus Christ declared, I
was in the beginning with the Father and I'm
the firstborn. Because of who he is and what
he has done, we worship him. We revere him. We
give glory to him and we follow him, meaning
we are his disciples. Christ has redeemed us
and we are forever grateful for his infinite
and atoning sacrifice. Heavenly Father loves
us. I like it in this talk. He makes a big distinction,
and it's a great reminder for each of us. It's
in our quest to understand what we do, not...
know. We might sometimes rely on our familiar
mortal experiences or the things we do know.
So he goes on to explain it in this way. He says,
we can learn somewhat of God the Father through
our own parenthood and mortal family relationships.
However, we should be careful in applying these
comparisons too far in our attempt to understand
our Heavenly Father. So the attributes of God
the Father transcend any less than perfect attribute
of like a fallen man so you might say like what
do i know um of heavenly mother well the motherly
instincts that i have but not like not all two
mothers are exactly alike so to attribute every
exact thing that you do to be the characteristic
of that heavenly being needs to also be paired
with the spirit testifying that that's a true
thing like it gives us a glimpse of of who they
are but it would have to be an absolute perfect
example to be an actual attribute of the Father,
right? That checks out. He's perfectly loving,
kind, patient, understanding, and perfectly glorious.
Like I would say as a parent, I have glimpses
of perfection. I have glimpses of what it feels
like. You know, like sometimes you're just sitting
there and you're like, man, it's so great. This
is so, so great. I think they probably have that
opportunity more often than not. But, you know,
then it's paired with the fighting and then me
having to yell and me feeling bad that I yelled.
That probably isn't part of it. Well, Heavenly
Father must yell too, because I had the instinct
to yell when my kid did something bad. Not accurate.
The spirit's not going to testify. That's true.
We can trust him perfectly. The love of Christ
reflects the love of God the Father and is a
representation of his love. So basically what
he's saying, whatever our relationship may be
with our Father, it's not perfect because our
Father's human. So we'll leave that part of your
heart open for a perfect relationship with the
perfect Father figure or with Father in heaven.
We can have a glimpse of what it's supposed to
look like, a glimpse of what perfect could look
like, but do plan on the relationships, you know.
Being even better than that. I love that. It's
interesting because I have a few priesthood blessings
that talk about my relationship with my Heavenly
Father and Heavenly Mother. And that when I am
with them again, that that will make up for every
lack that there ever was in my... in my parents
now, which I thought was really awesome because
I don't even feel like there is much lack. Yes,
they're human. But I was just thinking, man,
I just feel like he exceeds my expectations at
every turn. And it's just amazing. I know he
does that for every single person. as disciples
when we make and keep sacred covenants we are
blessed with spiritual power we are connected
to christ and god the father in a special relationship
and can experience their love and joy in a measure
reserved for those who have made and kept covenants
this next phrase shows how our relationship is
reciprocal to our efforts Our ability to sense
a full measure of God's love or to continue in
His love is contingent upon our righteous desires
and actions. I feel like the importance of this
can't be stressed enough. As we choose God, as
we choose to put Him first, we have more experience
with Him, and then I feel like we get to be more
familiar with His perfect love. So it makes sense
that, number one, it's an ability. to feel God's
love. And with any ability, our individual practice
and experience heighten that ability, right?
So it just extends, it just makes it more. I'll
read that one more time. Our ability to sense
a full measure of God's love or to continue in
His love is contingent upon our righteous desires
and actions. Let's look deeper into the phrase,
continue in His love. Abby, what do you have
for us on that? Let's go. John chapter 15, verse
9 reads, As the Father hath loved me, so have
I loved you. then we're given an invitation,
continue ye in my love. So if we love like Jesus
loves, he loves because of the way the Father
loved him. It's a great cycle to repeat. In the
next verse, we're given the way to continue in
his love. If you keep my commandments, you shall
abide in my love, even as I have kept my Father's
commandments and abide in his love. So I love
that reminder. Making covenants and keeping His
commandments is our way to show and demonstrate
the love that we have for Him. We then see the
purpose of keeping the commandments, which is
what verse 11 is about. It says, These things
have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain
in you, and that your joy might be full. So fullness
of joy comes from covenant relationships. Crazy,
right? It's awesome. Would that be the first
thing that your thought was? It's not the first
thing, but the more that I'm getting into the
covenant making and the importance of it, it's
so much less of a shackling chain and so much
more of a way to elevate myself and my relationship
with Jesus Christ and everything that I want
for my life. Yes, I agree. And I feel like making
covenants with... God feels more like a warm
blanket of comfort rather than, like you said,
the shackling chain, which you may look at earlier
in life. It's interesting, too, that the scripture
is teaching us that our capacity, here we are
again, for joy is expanded as we keep commandments
and make and keep covenants. And the opposite
message is trying to be shared by the adversary
saying, you're going to miss out on things that
bring joy. But really what we've discussed in
other podcasts, it's temporary happiness. We
could say it does feel good. It's fun. It feels
good for a time. But lasting joy and eternal
happiness and joy, it's definitely linked with
covenants that we're making. Through true covenant
discipleship, we can begin to understand better
the nature of God and the joy he wants all of
his children to experience. And we can also begin
to understand some principles that first might.
feel confusing here's a question you might ask
yourself how can god have a fullness of joy when
some of his children are suffering so much and
it comes down to two things one his perfect perspective
and two his perfect plan he sees us from the
beginning of our glorious potential future he
has provided a way through his son jesus christ
for every one of his children and what he's overcome
is a way to get over pain and suffering sins
guilt loneliness Things that are a consequence
of mortality. And he's provided for us the way
he's shown us, which way he'd prefer us to choose.
He lets us make our own choice inevitably, but
still we have been given the perfect example
of what would be the best choice in a situation.
I love this thought. And I learned an important
truth during this talk as I listened to it during
conference of the day of. Have you heard the
phrase that we are only as happy as our most
unhappy child? Definitely that. Yeah, I've heard
this all of my adult life from some in the older
generation. And it always made me a bit nervous,
number one, to have kids in the first place.
And then also later in life to have grandkids
because my chance of misery would be expanded.
This was an idea that was being perpetuated as
truth. This is what Elder McKeown says about
it. I have seen that this does not need to be
the case. My 94 -year -old mother has over 200
living descendants. At any given point, at least
one of them is going to be, the 200 is going
to be unhappy. If this statement were true, my
mother would be in a perpetual state of unhappiness,
which she isn't. Those who know her know how
joyful she is. My heart leaped out of my chest
when I heard this, coupled with the Holy Ghost,
like you were saying before, who spoke truth
to my heart about this. idea. I'm not sure if
it was because it was the only time I'd ever
heard it spoken with the Holy Ghost or from the
pulpit or both, but my heart recognized truth
and I felt the biggest sigh of relief over this.
And then the Spirit taught me this, that I do
not share most of the same views on life and
misery as this person does. So why would I adopt
an idea or just take their word for it because
they're older than me, right? But I had been
doing that. I can have my own experience and
I can partner with God and adopt His perspective.
on the matter. I loved his way of correcting
the view of a false tradition of our fathers
and mothers, or you could say a limiting belief
either way. I don't know if they had anybody
else who was listening to this podcast. If it's
not this particular view, was there something
that did stand out to you? Go ahead and share
it with a friend or a family member and start
a discussion about this. Or you could leave a
comment on the podcast. We would love to hear
what you have to say and have you be part of
the discussion. Yes. That was an awesome story.
And then, you know, he shared another one. He
said in January 2019, he and his wife, Debbie,
had a personal meeting with President Nelson.
At this meeting, he warmly extended the current
calling that Elder McEwen has and offered comfort
and reassurance because obviously these callings
come with a lot of heaviness, a lot of pressure,
and spent time making them feel valued and loved
like they were the only people in the world that
needed his attention in that moment. And they
left the meeting feeling joyful and supported,
even though it was a heavy calling they just
accepted. Now, the following Monday, they learned
at the very time of their meeting one of President
Nelson's daughters had passed away from cancer.
And the news left them stunned, and they reflected
what a contrast it was between how really kind
he was to them and he was experiencing his own
deep sorrow. And it led them both to feelings
of mourning for his loss, but also gratitude
for his compassion and attention to them. In
his own words, he pondered on how President Nelson
had any part of joy in him after this devastating
news. Right. He answered the question himself
by saying, because he knows. He knows that Christ
has been victorious. He knows that he will be
with his daughter again. He will spend an eternity
with her. Joy and eternal perspective come through
being bound to the Savior by making and keeping
covenants and through Christlike discipleship.
I feel like President Nelson has taught me so
much on this specific. topic. He said, just as
the Savior offers peace that passeth all understanding
in Philippians 4 -7, he also offers an intensity,
depth, and breadth of joy that defy human logic
or mortal comprehension, which again is mirrored
in what just happened, right? For example, it
doesn't seem possible to feel joy when your child
suffers with an incurable illness or when you
lose your job or when your spouse betrays you,
yet that is precisely the joy the Savior offers.
What this shows me again, is that President Nelson
practiced what he preaches or he walks the walk.
We've heard before in a quote that he has said,
the joy we feel has little to do with the circumstances
of our lives and everything to do with the focus
of our lives. I think he made that pretty apparent
with this personal story shared by Elder McCune
when he was able to give so much of himself to
someone else at the time when he was experiencing
a deep personal loss. Abby, do you have any other
thoughts to add before we close? This talk is
just kind of bringing to memory a couple of things.
One, when I was really worried about my children
and like, what can I do as a mother? And it was
kind of going into a general conference and the
impression came to me that I needed to spend
more time in the temple. What does my attendance
to the temple do for my children? you might ask.
And what I'm finding is that if I have questions
on my heart about them, I can take that to meet
with the temple with me. They get to see me practice
the faith that I preach at home. I maybe leave
the temple like a little lighter than I go into
it. So some of the heavinesses of the world I
leave behind. Anyway, answers to questions. I'm
finding that the answer to why that's important,
I find little pieces of that, you know, years
gone by since I asked that question. I don't
do it saying, okay, well, I've given you the
temple time, so make sure that my children choose
the gospel and choose to carry this on. I'm definitely
letting it be an opportunity to say, regardless
of the decisions my children make, this is what
I can do for my children now. That's what I was
prompted to do. And then the other thing that
came to mind as we were going through this talk
was, I feel like I learned more about... what
it like true characteristics of a good a good
parent kind of happen after i've really blown
it as a parent what do i mean by that a kid does
something i react in a certain way and um i i
go and i think on that kind of reflect on the
day and i realized that's not how i would have
liked to have responded to it and i let the spirit
impress me that there wasn't the right way So
he teaches me, the spirit teaches me, you know,
how to make it right. I go, I make my apologies.
The next time a similar scenario comes along,
I may be a little bit more inclined to do a better
way. So I'm not a perfect parent because I was
born to be a perfect parent. I'm perfect. I'm
becoming a perfect parent because the spirit,
through the spirit, I'm allowed to correct the
imperfections that I have. In perfect timing.
yeah right the time because i want him to be
involved in that process and i want to be better
at this job that have no handbook for each kid
so different it just doesn't play out quite the
same every time and i don't know that's kind
of the thoughts that have been going since we
talked about like oh you know i do it this certain
way so that must be the way heavenly mother does
it That's not as accurate to me as, you know,
you're kind of having these perfect peaceful
moments and like you're teaching something or
your kids teaching you something. You're having
these moments and then it just feels kind of
like out of worldly, like you get some of those
moments. Like a piece of heaven. Yeah, there's
a piece of heaven to it. So still learning on
this, still kind of getting an idea of it. I
mean, I just had a reunion, a 20 -year college
reunion, and everybody's kind of going around
the table and kind of talking about where their
lives are at. And a lot of them have been losing
their fathers. And Emily, she mentioned how her
dad passed in March and, you know, how it just
really brought a lot of grief. And she's not
married, and so she and her mom and dad did a
lot of holidays together, aside from the siblings
who have their own growing families and stuff.
And her mom's kind of like, eh, she doesn't cry
much about it. Emily cried, you know. I think
tears are good. In the talk before last, Jesus
wept. There's a place for tears, whatever. But
our friend Jody said, Emily, you should be proud
of those tears because my father died and I didn't
have one single tear to shed for him. Anyway,
everybody's just kind of sharing their experiences.
And sometimes we duplicate the way that we were
raised. And you have a lot of great things to
say about your parents when you said in a blessing
that things were going to be made right with
parents. And you're like, I have a great, great
childhood. What needs to be made right? Everything's
awesome. Some people live their life to try to
duplicate what their parents did for them. And
some have to take the example of the parents
they were born to and say, I need to do everything
completely opposite of that. reconcile a quarter
of it yeah and they're going to pick up examples
from other people in other places but those those
godly attributes do exist and we can't see them
in people and when we do see people parenting
like we want to parent or when we've been parented
the way that we want to be parented we we know
our spirit speaks to us in a way that says like
duplicate that do that again and again this is
true my last thought i love those abby thank
you for sharing that um i appreciate another
level of of this and i will close with his testimony
he says as we bind ourselves to act as covenant
disciples in whatever our level of capacity our
relationship with the father and the son is enriched
our joy is enhanced and our eternal perspective
is expanded we then are endowed with power and
can feel joy in a measure reserved for god's
true covenant disciples in the sacred name of
jesus christ amen Amen. We hope you find joy
in your covenant relationship with God this week,
and we'll catch you next time. See you next time.