[♪ Music playing.
Welcome to Closer to Christ, Your General Conference, where two friends who love Jesus
share our own approach to studying the most recent General Conference talks.
This is Abbey and Amy.
Let's jump into it.
Today's talk will be discussing Seeking Answers to Spiritual Questions by Sister Tracy Browning.
Second Counselor, Primary General Presidency.
This for a fact definitely has to be something that Amy takes the lead on because she's taught
me more than anybody else about seeking answers to spiritual questions.
She starts out her talk by sharing the fact that Pluto got downgraded.
Like us growing up, we definitely recognized Pluto as the planet in our solar system.
She's of the same generation and like doesn't get too deep into it, so I don't think we
have to either, but in 2006, you know, they made this group that decides like what's going
to qualify for a planet and Pluto passes two of the three tests, but not the third.
But basically what she was trying to say is that it took decades of questioning and learning
to reassign Pluto to its new place as something in our solar system, but not a planet in our
solar system.
She says, what's striking to me about this are some parallels and key distinctions between
the metaphorical pursuit of expanding scientific horizons and the journey that we as children
of God undertake to seek answers to our spiritual questions.
Specifically, how can we respond to the limits of our spiritual understanding and prepare
ourselves for the next stage of personal growth?
Where could we turn to for help?
And she's going to go on to lay out what we might consider like a formula for receiving
personal revelation.
Would you say it's that simple?
Would you say that there's a formula for receiving personal revelation?
Wouldn't we all love to have a clean cut way of personal revelation so that the outcome
is predictable, unfortunately, or maybe fortunately for us.
It's not really how it works.
My husband and I were talking about this and as soon as we think of God as a vending machine
with outlined input and output, our own understanding of the relationship has been skewed.
So rather than a formula for receiving personal revelation, I'd love to focus on guiding principles.
And these are directly from her talk.
I love this talk so much.
She taught so clearly and concisely.
Number one, the Holy Ghost is our guide and we center our lives on Jesus Christ.
I thought our conversation before the podcast started was fabulous.
You were sharing with me how you felt like Sister Browning.
Rather than making you want to go back and do research on all of the things that have
previously been said about spiritual questions, this becomes the new standard for where we're
at on it.
And I said, maybe that has to do with the research she's done previous to it.
There could be a lot of reasons for it, but what I thought was fabulous was that you come
to this talk with a boatload of personal experience in this realm.
So if you're telling me that this is the standard that we should go by, I'm extra interested
in what she has to say about it.
This is how I feel.
Yeah, I definitely geeked out about it.
So the Holy Ghost, number one was the Holy Ghost is our guide as we center our lives
in Jesus Christ.
And her direct quote is, God the Father and his son's way of imparting their wisdom to
us prioritizes inviting the power of the Holy Ghost to be our personal teacher.
We've heard that from our prophet as well.
As we center Jesus Christ in our lives and in our faithful seeking for their answers
and their meaning.
Two, we use our agency to spend time learning what the spirit feels like in our lives.
Cause I think the word agency came to me when we were saying that in step number one, because
if we don't opt in, then they can't override our agency.
They can't open the channels of what they're going to share with us until we opt in and
say, we want to learn something from you.
And then yes, we've opened that channel.
We were in a place where the Holy Ghost can teach us that takes daily decisions that we're
making daily.
That requires our agency to get us to that point.
So yes, perfect.
So going back to point number two, agency.
Her quote, so number two is we use our agency to spend time learning what the spirit feels
like in our lives.
Her quote is, they, heavenly father in Jesus Christ, invite us to discover truth through
devoted time spent studying Holy scripture and to seek for latter day revealed truth
for our day and our time imparted by modern day prophets and apostles.
Third one, worship in the temple and pray.
They, heavenly father in Jesus Christ, entreat us to spend regular worship full time in the
house of the Lord and to take to our knees in prayer.
And then she says this, to access information from heaven.
Can't be more straightforward than that, right?
I can't think of a more cool experience that I've had than when I knelt in prayer in the
celestial room.
I had the place to myself.
Like I just can't imagine doing that.
Love that.
Just randomly, but there were things on my mind and there was like, I had been studying
the be still and know I am God.
And I went into there, I'm like, I have this opportunity.
It's unique.
Like how many temples can you say you can go into and you have the celestial room to
yourself?
Probably not many.
I had just dressed in a way and I had just done some work.
Like I hadn't gone through a session.
So I wasn't like entering the celestial room with a pile of other groups.
Like it was just me and my own time and kind of off schedule, whatever.
And that's a powerful thing to do.
So I don't know that everybody will get that opportunity to do it, but I would add what
a neat opportunity to, I guess what I loved, it was so immediate.
I opened my prayer and I received my answer to my prayer like in that moment.
I don't know that that happens all the time for me.
It happened this time for me.
Elder Uchtdorf said, asking a question is not a sign of weakness.
It's a precursor to growth.
That's a fact.
What are your thoughts about asking questions, Amy?
So Abby, I grew up in a home with a teacher for a dad and I didn't realize it as a child,
as a teen or a young adult, but I realized later on that he was teaching me to be a seeker
of truth and a learner on my own.
So whenever I would ask a question that I was sure he had the answer to, he would say,
well, what do you think?
And I remember being disappointed as a kid and thinking, why isn't he telling me?
I knew he knew it.
But what that did was it turned me into someone who wasn't waiting for a handout, wasn't waiting
for other people's opinions, but I learned to seek the answers and go straight to God.
I now am forever grateful for that lesson.
So parents aren't allowed to be a vending machine either.
Here's the answer.
I mean, you could be, right?
That was the other thing.
Hold on.
It's really causing me to think that's not effective parenting.
Like we had just discussed one episode previous, as parents, you have to, we learn, we learn
through our kids that we have to discern the situation and give our kids what they need
in that moment.
Right.
And that changes, I would say.
Absolutely changes.
And it changes by kid.
And certainly that's going to be true for Heavenly Father and for the knowledge he has about
us and for our growth, that if he dispenses it in such a way that it takes no effort on
our part, I think that which comes too easily is gone too easily.
Well, is esteem too lightly?
I don't know.
I'd have to go back and think on this, but that which we get too easily, we don't appreciate
as much as the things we work hard for.
For sure, Abby.
Heavenly Father knew that I would respond well to that type of teaching.
And also when I talked, so when I heard this, I called my dad and I talked to him and thanked
him for this.
He reminded me that often we need, just like you said, different types of teaching through
different seasons of life.
And about your knowledge of your siblings, do you think that he is the same?
I'm sure he did.
Totally.
Yeah.
Well, you've got one here right now for the holidays, so ask him.
I will ask him.
So there are times that certain teachings resonate more with us and it's wonderful to
learn through different modes and the Lord has infinite ways of reaching us.
The more fluent we are in this and his different languages of teaching, the better it is for
us in learning as a whole rather than just parts.
But about if like this Amy today, 2024 still, not 2025, calls dad up and asks him, does
he use that same method for you or does it become more of an adult conversation where
he's willing to share a little more because he kind of knows where you're at in your life?
You know, he still kind of uses that.
He's a man of few words.
And I also think that's just part of his personality as well.
But yeah, but we're also able to have conversations.
So a little of both.
Like he would still like me to reach and he also has a nice conversation.
I think that's awesome.
The Lord's method of teaching is what I would say mirrors what your dad is.
He knows what you need and he gives you that in the moment and then he lets you think on
it, kind of make some sense of that and then he'll give you more.
So we just say line upon line, precept upon precept.
We may be required to wait on the Lord in the space between our current line of understanding
and then the next that's yet to be delivered.
This we consider sacred space.
It can be a place where our greatest spiritual growth can happen.
If we bear it with patience.
Well, actually you can learn something when you don't bear it with patience too.
That's true.
But if we know we're in the process of earnestly seeking and renewing strength to continue
to keep sacred promises we have made to God through covenant, what blessings have you
found or what has come to you in times when you've had to wait on the Lord?
When the answers don't come so immediate.
So it's interesting because I'll just put this out there.
I don't like waiting.
Who does?
Like that's the dumbest thing.
I think as I have continued to learn and grow, I recognize that it is vital that we recognize
the waiting as part of the process.
In fact, it's the space the Lord has given us to actually process what we've learned
this far.
I realized actually, as I went over this talk, it was on the fourth listen, Abby, that I
am always on the edge of revelation.
When Sister Browning said that phrase, on the edge of revelation, I felt a gentle correction
from the Spirit.
Why not use the edge for something other than a chance to move that needle, move that needle
as I sometimes get hyper-focused and I just want to keep going.
I decided right then as I paused the talk to pray and think through this to consciously
use the space in between to thank Heavenly Father in prayer and then to synthesize what
I've learned telling Him, thank you for teaching me this.
Thank you for helping me to see that.
Thank you for helping me understand this.
As I take part in this process, I use my agency to invite Heavenly Father to then further
clarify the things He taught me.
As I tell Him what I've learned, He may be able to say, actually it was this and clarify
that and then it's another opportunity for me to learn further.
I felt the Spirit teaching me that that's another way that gratitude can become a blessing.
Another reason for the waiting between learning is so that the principles we've already learned
have time and space to take hold while we live life.
This waiting time is a time for integration.
And an opportunity for Him to see through the actions that we take that we understood
the message.
Yes, I love that.
So we were talking about the steps that we go to.
Well, the principles that we learn were in that waiting period.
So from the talk, I would say the word obey stood out.
Adam was commanded by God to make a sacrifice on the altar.
And after many days, an angel of the Lord appeared to Adam saying, why do you do this?
Why are you offering the sacrifice into the Lord?
And Adam said unto him, I know not, say the Lord commanded me.
I love that line.
Love it.
So Sister Browning clarified that Adam's obedience preceded his understanding and prepared him
to receive the sacred knowledge that he is.
Oh yeah.
It's the best answer.
He's like, I have no idea why I'm doing it.
They told me to offer sacrifices.
I'm doing that.
And then really we get to see like, this is great.
This is a great practice for us.
Because we do it just because it doesn't feel wrong to do it.
And it actually makes, we feel right.
We feel settled.
We're doing it.
I think Adam's getting something out of that.
For sure.
He must be getting some blessings.
It's like, I don't know, but like things are going well for me because I'm doing this thing.
And so I'm going to keep doing it until I get further instruction from the Lord on what
the next thing is.
And how beautiful for him that when he understood later, this is after, that he was participating
in a sacred symbol of the atonement of Jesus Christ.
That is a beautiful part.
Makes so much more sense.
I agree.
Right.
And he needed to be put to test to say, will you do this thing that I ask without all the
answers in front of you?
That's how it is for us, right?
We don't get to see the end from the beginning.
So I do love this part.
When she talks about this whole, this whole sub, sorry, one of the areas that she talked
about was obey is just that what are we obeying?
One of the questions that I've really loved, you know, we know the part of the DNC that
says obedience brings forth the blessings of heaven and whatever we receive a blessing
is to that, right?
Laws are irrevocably decreed in heaven.
And when you are obedient to those laws, like the blessings cannot be withheld from you.
Yes.
In a short way to say it.
Exactly.
And we know that part, right?
So my next question is key obedience to what?
We must know what law we're obeying or who we're obeying.
What if I were living the law of man, yet expecting the blessings of God?
Yes.
It doesn't work that way.
What if I were living a law I misunderstood to be God's law and it was something else?
So when we live God's law, we are blessed by God's law.
When we live man's law, we are blessed to the extent of man's law and no further.
So an action item that I would love is just to share is if obedience is your quest, ask
yourself and ask in prayer, what law am I obeying and whose law am I obeying?
And the spirit will help you with that.
As the answers come to your heart through the Holy Ghost, then we just make adjustments
where needed.
And then this is the other part is that when we are blessed by a reciprocal law, like living
the law of tithing, for example, means we earn enough money to pay our bills and provide
for our family.
Or we're blessed by a compensatory blessing.
For example, living the law of tithing can look like us being able to receive help from
the bishop for a short amount of time.
My husband and I had a few months where we were blessed by the Lord through sacred funds
given to us by the bishop to pay bills.
It was a valuable lesson for us because we would honestly have rathered the blessing
that we earn the money through our employment, but we don't get to counsel the Lord on how
he provides for us.
We just trust that he will provide as we live his law and then live in gratitude as he does.
And then the last question is, what if we were not living the law of tithing yet?
Okay, what if I were not living the law of tithing yet I knew that God had the power
to bless me however he sees fit?
This goes back to what you were talking about, the beginning, Abby.
So then I prayed for and waited for that blessing to come to me and my family.
I would be misunderstanding our relationship and would be enacting empty faith because
I had not acted.
We have to remember the crucial aspect is we claim God's blessing by living his laws.
So another action item would be ask yourself, am I living the law connected to the blessing
that I'm praying for and waiting on?
So what are some guiding principles or key pieces to keep in mind when we're trying to
receive this personal revelation?
So one of them is taught throughout the Book of Mormon, children, oh, when God's children
choose to demonstrate obedience and keep their covenants, they receive continual spiritual
guidance and direction.
Absolutely.
And then sometimes they get so tuned into that, that they think that those blessings
came from themselves.
And then we go into that covenant corruption cycle where we forget that things are going
so well because you were doing as God's will was.
Satan's always going to slip his opposing force and to make you think the great things
are because of him.
So anyway, sorry, I deterred that.
So back to the question.
You're good.
What are some guiding principles or key pieces to keep in mind to receive personal revelation?
These are directly from the talk.
She says, our adherence to gospel principles and sacred covenants is crucial preparation
for our readiness to receive and be stewards of communications from the Holy Spirit.
Beautiful how she talks about being a steward of a communication from the Holy Spirit.
That's what we are.
It reframes that.
Another, Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ are the source of all truth and they share
their wisdom liberally.
Understanding that we do not possess any personal knowledge independent of God can help us know
who to turn to and where to place our primary trust.
That's also crucial.
Anything we learn is going to come directly from him.
It's not going to be quote new information.
Revelation from God is always compatible with his eternal law and it never contradicts his
doctrine.
That's from our president, Nelson.
Resisting obedience to God's laws and commandments may prolong or delay our growth.
She shares a story about that.
And then we come to the next section that she talked about.
Let's go into that.
It's trust.
She uses this.
Elder Richard G. Scott taught that this life is an experience and profound trust.
Trust in Jesus Christ, trust in his teachings, trust in our capacity as led by the Holy Spirit
to obey those teachings for happiness now and for a purposeful, supremely happy eternal
existence.
And trust means to obey willingly without knowing the end from the beginning.
Proverbs 3, 5 through 7, to produce fruit, you trust in the Lord and it must be more
powerful and enduring than your confidence in your own personal feelings and experience.
And Elder Scott continues to exercise faith is to trust that the Lord knows what he is
doing with you and that he can accomplish it for your eternal good, even though you
cannot understand how he possibly could do it.
Right?
How is this going to come together?
Yeah.
So like, what's it going to take, we've talked about this in other conference talks, but
let's just assume somebody's popping in on this one.
What is one way we can cultivate this trust in the Lord?
So Abby, the thing that came to my mind is that we aren't asked to do the primary or
the Sunday school answers just to check it off a list or even just to keep us engaged
in good things.
Our Father in heaven has asked us to do these things so we can become acquainted with his
spirit and what it feels like to know him.
That way when the storm surrounds us or we feel prompted to take a step into the darkness
and it feels scary, we can discern his spirit because we've done the work to get to know
him.
And then as we repeat this process of obedience and acting on faith throughout our lives,
our trust in God grows.
And then also we know in our hearts and in our bones that we are held by him and that
he has our highest and best good in mind, regardless of what happens around us.
I love that.
I want to go back to one thing before we wrap it up because that does get us to the end
of the talk, but something you'd said before and it hasn't left my mind.
So I think I just want to touch into it a little bit more.
How you were talking about kind of always being on the precipice or like the edge of
revelation or she says it that way.
You just reiterated it.
Can you go into that a little bit more?
About how I'm always on the edge?
What does that mean?
Yes, like how did that come, what thoughts did that make you think of?
I'm thinking of all the things Elder Bednar has taught us that like we, it's not like
you're living and then in a moment in time, you're going to get personal revelation and
it's going to direct you to this major big grand thing.
And then boom, you've had your answer to your spiritual question has been answered.
I think we're supposed to fill that on the edge of...
Really?
I do think so because you ask yourself the question like, is there something that I am
doing or not doing in my life that would, let's say, quote unquote, like send me over
the edge from being on this precipice of receiving.
And in that way, we're like assessing our life and we're saying, oh, I could be doing
this thing.
We're not like judging ourselves harshly and being like, I'm not open to revelation because
I'm this bad person and I'm not doing this thing.
I'm not saying it that way at all.
I'm saying that we just take this overview of our life, we look at it, we just say, I
think that I can step up my game here.
And in doing that thing, if we're looking for revelation, we're inviting the Holy Spirit
more fully into our lives, which is a direct gift from Heavenly Father Jesus Christ.
And I mean, whatever the answer to the question is, isn't really the point of the process.
The point is to know that with them and the gift of the Holy Spirit that we can feel confidence
in the things that we're deciding to do in our life.
And I guess it makes me think the way that Elder Bednar has taught me and it's stuck
with me like so much ever since that point, that as long as I'm doing something good that's
pointing me to Jesus Christ and getting me closer to Him, I can assume that as being
spiritual revelation.
I can assume that that came from God.
If I'm turned away from Him, then I'm not.
So I guess when I'm sitting on that precipice, I'm thinking, does it make me want to teeter
and tip and like draw closer to Jesus Christ, my Father?
Or does it not?
So even if I'm not getting an answer per se, it's still pointing me towards the answer.
Answers don't have to come like in this pretty packaged, like a pretty package with a bow
on top.
They just don't.
They're still getting, they often don't come that way.
That's the thing too, is that like sometimes when you look back on life, 10, 15 years of
life, I see so many things in my life that I can like metaphorically like put in a box
with a bow on it and say, I do have things like that.
It's true though, but it's because my dad is also a master storyteller.
I love listening to his stories because some of his stories are decades and three and four
decades long.
Like his podcast, the guest podcast spot that he had.
And that's what I love, Abby, is that he has this special phrase that he always use.
And whenever he says it, I like get giddy and I can't wait for the next part.
The phrase is this, years later, because that's when the rest of the story comes.
It's in the hindsight that we look back and we're able to put that bow on the lesson.
But while it's happening, just like we're learning here in scripture with Adam, I know
not say the Lord had commanded me.
That's for a lot of years that that happens.
Not until later can we say years later and then everything comes together with a beautiful
bow if we're looking back at it.
I also think part of personal revelation is the gift of looking back and realizing, oh,
that was an answer to my prayer.
Oh, that was personal revelation.
That's where the gift is.
It's such a missed opportunity if we don't take it.
I agree.
Obviously that's what a missed opportunity means.
It's such a missed opportunity to see how far we've come from where we've been.
And I know as I'm thinking, it's the biggest struggles in my life.
And I guess I'm hoping that this podcast reaches the ears of somebody that literally just feels
like they're, of all the people in the world, nothing that they say, nothing they're communicating
to heaven is being heard and their prayers not being answered.
And what you and I think both are trying to equally say is you may not feel it yet, but
the answer is happening.
It is happening daily, especially as the things you do have control of, the choices that you're
making, the agency that you're using to be open to suggestions, minor tweaks, minor corrections,
the thing that he is impressing you to do through the Spirit.
If you latch onto those and take those, it is an answer.
It's not the answer that you may be looking for.
But because I've let him work on my life in their own way, he gives me better answer than
the one that I was seeking.
For sure.
And if I leave it up to him and let the time pass, and I'm not even going to say I'm patient
in the wait.
I definitely have not always been patient in the wait.
But looking back, I can say it can take as long as you need because it's exactly what
I needed from it.
So that's so good, Abby.
Thank you for going back and asking about that because what I have loved about that
as you were talking, the word and the phrase that Sister Browning used was being on the
edge of revelation.
I love that the Spirit taught me something different because it said this is where you
are in that process.
And at the same time, the Spirit taught you something different where you are in that
process.
So every person who's listening to these words, whatever it was, whether it was that exact
phrase that we both got something from or something else, the Spirit will teach you
where you are in this process.
And it's going to be refined and tuned and the Lord continues to do that step by step
for each one of us.
I think that's a tricky thing.
She laid out a formula for the way the peace and the peace and the peace can work for people,
but we both agreed and I think she's saying the same thing.
There's so much, you individually have to realize how the Spirit's going to prompt you
to do direction.
You're going to have to individually decide how to assess if you're living by God's law
and man's law.
You have to individually assess the what in the question versus the why.
I said that, that just came out of my mouth because as I was listening to her, I was like,
she is like the epitome of what I want to be.
You can tell that she asks a lot of what question, not why's.
And so then she's able to articulate how she's found answers to her life and how she's like,
it doesn't have to be something that's a unique blessing to her on seeking spiritual answers.
She's saying it's available to everybody.
It's a process and there are steps that we can each apply, but basic key principles,
but it's going to take some exercise on our part, some experimenting with the process.
Yep, exercising just like everything else.
What do you have for us in closing?
I think in closing, Abby, I would love to share just that the thought that we thank
God in prayer for every stage of our personal revelation, thank Him in the waiting, the
reaching and in the receiving.
And then one of the greatest ways to show Him you're aware of His blessings is to receive
them with gratitude.
When we acknowledge that He is our source of truth, knowledge, goodness and blessings,
then more blessings flow.
I love it.
Thank you for sharing that with us today.
Thank you all for being with us and we'll catch you next time.
Catch you next time.