[♪ Music & Voice Over
[♪ Music & Voice Over Welcome to Closer to Christ through General Conference, where two friends who love Jesus share our own approach to studying the most recent General Conference talks.
[♪ Music & Voice Over This is Abby. And Amy. Let's jump into it.
[♪ Music & Voice Over Today we're talking about the man who communed with Jehovah by Elder Kyle Esmike of the Seventy, who was also the church historian.
[♪ Music & Voice Over So I love the way he starts his talk.
[♪ Music & Voice Over He says, My purpose this day and always is to testify of Jesus Christ, that he is the Son of God, the Creator and Savior of the world, our Deliverer and Redeemer.
[♪ Music & Voice Over How powerful would a meeting or our class discussion or even discussions in our home would be if we remember that taking opportunities to testify of Christ will have the best ability to teach whatever lesson we have that we want to be heard.
[♪ Music & Voice Over Good point. And definitely a goal of mine, a goal of yours. Definitely something we can keep working on.
[♪ Music & Voice Over So good.
[♪ Music & Voice Over I love that he talks about, well he reminds us, regardless of what you think the job of apostles and prophets are, to tick people off or to tell them the hard things, whatever you think their job is,
he reminds us that apostles and prophets dedicate their lives to testifying of Jesus Christ and promised us that he would spend this talk witnessing of his own knowledge and testimony of the Savior as it has been strengthened and deepened by the man who communed with Jehovah, even Joseph Smith.
So, Abby, we've mentioned in a previous podcast, but it's also, it's incredible to think that the young 14-year-old boy, he entered a grove of trees to pray about his sins and also to ask which church to join, not to ask about the nature of the Godhead or maybe how to organize a church 101.
His sincere prayer offered with unwavering faith received the attention of the most powerful forces in the universe, including the Father and the Son and the Devil.
Each of these had an intense interest in that prayer and in that boy.
So, how does Joseph Smith's first vision encourage us today to approach God in times of need?
This talk for me highlighted the fact that age is not a limiting factor to who has the right to prayer and whose prayers will be heard.
God communed with Joseph. The God who did commune with Joseph is a God who answers teenagers in times of trouble.
Love that part.
When I read that line, I was like, I'm hoping parents who are raising teens or teachers who are teaching them or teens themselves may be tuning in and they hear that line and they allow the Spirit to testify that that's true.
We know young children, they'll pray for anything and they usually feel like very justified.
They get answered and they're just, where's my remote? Where's my teddy bear?
There it is. And God answers prayers. This is great.
And it's those teen years that seem to bring a little bit of a change and we start doubting that process and we start thinking that we're being heard and maybe take things to him less often because we don't see that the answers that we're seeking are coming to us.
But this is a perfect example that that's just not the case. God is no respecter of persons or age.
I love that he was putting to test something that he had studied and studied and the words were found in James.
They became true to him. He found out for himself that when a man lacks wisdom, he can go and ask God and God will provide, he'll obtain.
Absolutely.
I love that through the First Vision, we come to understand the nature of God.
We understand that he wants his children to come and talk to him. He wants to provide us with answers, but it does require an ask on our part.
He could certainly unload things on us, like by virtue of agency, he has to know that we want to know an answer to a question.
For sure.
I have had that thought a couple times and I'm like, man, I'm so overwhelmed and he's like, you asked. That's what I felt, you know?
And it's like, you're right, I did. You know, it's just, I love that. I've had that thought quite a few times and I actually did want to know.
It's just a lot more than, it's more weight than I thought I'd be carrying. You know what I mean?
There is the truth. It's weightier and it's going to take some time to ruminate and process that piece of the answer he's given you.
But because he's too good to us, I know he hasn't given you more than he knows you're capable of handling.
Absolutely.
You may have not thought that it was, but he knew, like that was the limit.
He totally did.
Because if you look at the process where you get to the end, you're like, man, if he had unloaded actually the beginning from the end all at once right then, that would have been impossible.
Yes, sure.
But he kind of knows, like, the limit. For me, this is personal and it's a preparatory. All he wanted was forgiveness and direction.
That's true.
But the Lord gives him both the instruction to join none of the churches was the directive and the words,
thy sins are forgiven thee, were the redemptive part of that.
Oh, I love that, Abby. Very well said.
I spent some time reflecting on how prayers, my prayers have evolved since I was young.
And I think that they're the perfect person. The prayers that my little three year old, I'm like, I'll have him pray for the things that I really want because I think those prayers are heard above anybody else.
They're eloquent, but they're just pure.
Yeah, not only that, but I had a friend that I used to be in young ones with and she had a little daughter that was literally, I want to say she was like a year and a half to two, but I was her gum friend.
Anytime she saw me, she knew I was going to give her gum.
And she would just smile at me and hold her hands out. And like, she knew I was giving her that gum every time I saw her.
And I was just like, if only we could all be like that with God. And that's how a three year old prays.
They are, yeah, that's a perfect visualization of what I'm saying. They're like, I'm asked this thing. I asked the guy and he's totally going to provide.
For sure.
Something happens like probably eight to, you know, till we understand. There's like a piece of time in there. It's just a little bit different.
We become a little more skeptical, cynical because we've grown and God knows that we're ready for more.
He is going to make us learn a bit of patience in the prayer or asking the question, tweaking the question a little bit different way, or you want the answer to that.
It's not going to be that easy. So we can only give you a piece of that, you know, this to start with.
When I see that you're doing that piece in part, then you'll get more for me.
So true.
I know from the First Vision account that even though an answer is given once, it doesn't prevent me from asking again,
because Joseph didn't stop there for asking for forgiveness and direction the rest of his life.
He received that repeated blessing through a series, you know, a few different times.
True.
And there's nothing wrong with asking the same question time and time again.
That's a good lead into the next question of how does Joseph Smith's example of regular repentance provide a model for our lives?
Let's see, to answer that, I'd probably go to what this historian shared on September 21st, 1823.
It said Joseph earnestly prayed for forgiveness and the Lord sent the angel Moroni to instruct Joseph and inform him of an ancient record he would later translate by the gift and power of God, the Book of Mormon.
So again, we see the forgiveness that was the root of his question was answered.
And then it was like, okay, this is the next piece. You're going to receive the book. You're going to translate it.
That was the direction he needed.
And then another example that he pulled was 13 years after that, Joseph and Oliver knelt in prayer at the Kirtland Temple.
And so we're speculating here a little bit because we don't know exactly what they prayed for as they're coming out of their prayer.
We're assuming that there was a plea for forgiveness in there because as they arise, the Savior appears.
This is the Kirtland Temple experience.
And what he says is, behold, your sins are forgiven you.
Doesn't that certainly seem like an answer to, are we worthy, are sins forgiven?
Absolutely.
And you are clean before me.
And so forgiveness was granted.
And what did we get from that Kirtland Temple experience?
We got the restoration of the priesthood keys.
So direction of what we're going to do with those keys is the next thing, right?
Yes. You know, it's interesting, Abby, because the Lord loves us every day all the time, no matter what.
I do feel like He doesn't delight more in us than when we are asking for forgiveness and when we are giving gratitude.
I feel like those two things open the doors of heaven, unlike other things.
I feel like a few talks have kind of led to that epiphany, and it's absolutely true.
Yeah. So we can add to our list of truths we know of the nature of God here.
Jesus Christ truly is of a forgiving disposition.
It is neither His mission nor His nature to condemn.
He came to save us, the whole reason He was here.
It is not the backup plan. It's not that just in case something goes wrong, it was completely anticipated that we would need a Savior,
otherwise He wouldn't have been sent for us.
So that's definitely truth that I heard.
Another thing I was considering was how do restored truths enhance our understanding of the gospel?
What impact do they have on our spiritual practices?
So let's consider how the restitution of all things came about.
I loved, by the way, I loved this part of the talk.
It brought me so much happiness.
It was through a combination of translating the Book of Mormon and asking for further clarity
that brought some of the sweetest truths back to the earth in this dispensation.
As Joseph matures and expanded his questions, asking abilities, love this, and also his capacity grew,
truths were restored to the earth. It was line upon line, experienced by experience.
Some truths were here, but lacked key details, and his inquiries brought clarity and completeness.
The one that comes to mind is when he's translating the Book of Mormon, it talks about something and he has a question about Elvin, right?
Just the fact that his heart was so pure and he was like, heavenly Father, how can this be so?
He doubted nothing. He had a great skill of formulating a question.
I've always loved that about him.
He'd lost his brother, Elvin, and his own son, Elvin, had passed.
That's what's so special about this. It's certainly going to be on his mind.
How can I get about doing this work?
And then this piece of truth comes to the Book of Mormon.
He stops to think, to find out more.
What does this mean to me, heavenly Father? I love that. I love it.
And it wasn't done in a quick moment, but over months and over years,
what pattern do I see here that I can emulate in my own spiritual practice?
Again, it's asking these questions.
What pattern do I see here that I can emulate in my own spiritual practice?
Again, I'm going to go back to Joseph Smith knowing how to formulate a question,
coming upon something in the Scriptures or in his own life, and then turning straight to God,
not questioning, is that really a thing, but saying, heavenly Father, show me how this works in my life.
Show me the next step. That's what I have learned from him over and over again,
and it just brings me so much happiness.
Like a give and take. I'm acknowledging that I understand it to this point,
and I'm understanding there could be a gap here.
And if there's more to know, then I'm ready for it.
Love it.
And then it might feel weighty, what comes your way, but he knew the right amounts to give you.
It's true.
You or me, and then we stew on that for a minute, and then we can grow from there.
I love that, yes.
And sometimes we're asking a question. We know A, and we want to get to Z.
He's like, I've got to give you the in-between steps, and you aren't ready for the end of that alphabet.
For sure. So, Abby, I feel like now, remember, I just say a prayer,
and then I write down what I believe I'm hearing through the Spirit.
And I have heard on more than one occasion where Heavenly Father says,
you're not going to understand even if I tell you.
That makes sense.
And I'm like, okay, I can handle that, because it goes back to, you know,
there have been multiple scriptures, you're a little children, you can't understand yet.
I'm like, that's fine.
And then maybe I'll ask it in a different way, or I'll say,
could I just have like just the tiniest next little glimpse,
and maybe within a month or three months or four months or whatever it is,
I might get a tiny little glimpse.
But I am appreciative when he says that to me.
Joseph set this example for us, and what you're articulating is reformulating the question.
When he says you're not ready for it, then you ask him for a follow-up.
You say, please make me aware when I hear things that will prepare me to be ready for it.
Love that.
And then sometimes it's...
It could be years later.
Right? Sometimes it's give me the experiences where I will learn it through that.
That's usually what happens.
It's not him telling me something.
It's I learn it for myself in the flesh, and it takes years.
Fun, huh?
Mm-hmm.
Let's run through some of the beautiful list of restoration principles Elder McKay listed,
so that as we're spelling them out, that we ourselves and the audience can reflect on how these truths enhance our understanding of the gospel
and maybe the impact that they're having on our own lives.
Again, I love this part of the talk. It's just so clear.
The Father and Son have bodies as tangible as man's.
Jesus took upon Himself not only our sins, but also our sicknesses, afflictions, and infirmities.
Abby, to us, we say this so often, we hear it so often.
It's common knowledge. What if it was the first time you were hearing that?
What if you had just heard it was just sins?
You thought you were the only person that had ever suffered an assertion, right?
Yes!
And then you come to find out that your Savior understands it more perfectly than anybody.
Yes, that changes my life.
It would matter.
Absolutely. His atonement was so excruciating, it caused him to bleed from every pore.
We are saved by His grace after all we can do.
There are conditions to Christ's mercy.
As we come unto Christ, He will not only forgive our sins, but He will also change our very nature
so that we have no more disposition to do evil.
Christ always commands His people to build temples where He manifests Himself unto them
and endows them with power from on high.
This is a short list. There are so many more we can add.
And also, each one of those you could really jump into and have a conversation just in that one alone.
This is an extensive list.
We see the pattern again and again when we commune with Jehovah.
We receive answers and direction on what we should busy ourselves with.
The final portion of this talk focuses on revelations from the Prophet Joseph about the work in our day.
And I love this so much.
Here's the question.
How has Joseph Smith's effort to roll forth the kingdom of God inspired you to engage in this work?
So here's the question.
How has Joseph Smith's efforts to roll forth the kingdom of God inspired you to engage in this work?
I bet you loved this next part of the talk.
I was giddy over it, Abby.
The Prophet Joseph Smith's writing in 1842 records of amazing things that would come to pass in the last dispensation.
He declared that during our day, the heavenly priesthood will unite with the earthly to bring about those great purposes
and will be thus united in one common cause to roll forth the kingdom of God, the heavenly priesthood are not idle spectators.
Love it!
Joseph Smith is now part of that heavenly priesthood of which he spoke as he promised his friend.
He is not far away from us and on the other side of the veil he is still working with us
and with the power greatly increased to roll on this kingdom.
And since this talk was about Joseph, that is awesome to make that nod to him.
But anybody who is engaged in family history work or continues to engage in family history work
will find their ancestors as equally invested in that work as they are.
They are a busy people.
Well, and they want that.
If you show a desire that you want to be doing that work, they will make, they will open doors that like on this early side,
we can't make things happen and all of a sudden somebody feels like, oh, I should do some indexing.
And that indexing record is the answer to your thing.
It's like a big rabbit hole, a dark void, and it's a beautiful thing.
It's totally fine to get lost in.
So, Abby, when I read this, I absolutely love, like when I read it, I was like, did I just read what I think I just read?
I love that he talks about how the heavenly priesthood and the one on the earth are working together.
What I love about this quote, Abby, is that Joseph Smith very clearly said that those on that side of the veil
and on this side of the veil through priesthood power are going to be working together to roll forth the kingdom of God.
So right now, like I'm 100% invested.
I love all things that have to do with this on this side of the veil.
If for some reason I pass away and I'm on the other side, I am still going to be 100% invested, just like all of my ancestors were or are.
Because Joseph Smith says it also in a beautiful way.
He talks about how those of an in this, if you look in the footnote, it will take you there.
It says that those of previous generations will be or sorry, future generations will be totally enthralled.
And the things that we're doing now is what he said.
And then it talked about how they'll be standing on our shoulders.
And he also talks about how the ones that came before, they died before they ever got to actually see it come to fruition, but they're still working on it.
So I just feel like whatever side I find myself on, I'm 100% in and I'll be 100% invested and working with whoever else is around me.
And if he sees us busy about that type of work on this side, it's like our assignments are going to be made quickly and we're going to be boom.
We're going to be right on that mission area for this part of the talk made me think back to President Nelson sharing this story in RootsTech forever ago.
It was like 2017. Yep.
And the story that they've titled is called A Visit From Father. And I think I'll just include that in the show notes.
But the gist of it is that his ancestor, let me give you like the spoiler alert, his great-great grandfather, 27 years before Joseph F. Smith receives the revelation that is documented in the Doctrine and Covenants about the work for our deceased ancestors,
his relative was paired up with Erastus Snow, who was huge in the missionary efforts in the early church.
And they end, you know, like, are you watching over us all the time? Like, yes, I'm here to see what you're doing.
You're doing great things. But I just have a minute to pop in right now because we are just so busy with the missionary work and doing important jobs on the other side.
And so I would encourage a cute look at that if you're questioning like, you know, what do you do on the other side? What are we doing? A lot more of what we're doing now.
It's just a little different look, a little different. It's the other side of the veil, but kind of already here.
Kind of confusing. To his friend, Benjamin Johnson, Joseph said, Benjamin, if I die, I would not be far away from you.
Well, there you go. That's what I was trying to explain. This is where the spirit world is.
I will not be far away from you. And if on the other side of the veil, I would still be working with you and with the power greatly increased to roll on the kingdom.
Love that. That's helpful.
Our beloved prophet was martyred on June 27th, 1844, but his testimony lives on.
I had seen a vision. I knew it and I knew God knew it and I could not deny it.
I never told you I was perfect, but there is no error in the revelations which I have taught.
I would say as we're finishing up the Book of Mormon that was translated by the prophet Joseph Smith,
it's been a special year. I've been so grateful for the things that the further testimony that I've gained of the Book of Mormon,
but I am in eager anticipation of the Doctrine and Covenants.
I'm already getting some bits of revelation on, you know, where my time can be best spent, some church history work.
And I've really found a lot of joy as I was studying the Doctrine and Covenants.
I kind of wanted to know that process, like where did this come from?
And the churches provided the Gospel Library app, Revelations in Context, and it just kind of takes the words from just, you know,
yes, I want to know, they might mention a specific name in the Doctrine and Covenants.
I can reinsert my name there and say this revelation could be just as much for me.
It did expand my testimony of that process of how it works to have a question presented to you
and to stew on it and take it to the Lord and then what He's going to bring to me from it.
So I think all of that, you know, we're not going to have time for all of them.
I certainly wouldn't say that I made that happen for every section of the Doctrine and Covenants,
but it doesn't matter this time if I did it on the last iteration of it four years ago.
Great, I'll kind of remember that as I'm going, but if I didn't have a chance to,
then this is my opportunity to get a few more in me and kind of get that history laid out
just to appreciate the restoration of the Gospel even that much more.
Any other thoughts?
No, just that I love this talk so much and there was so much in there that you really could stop.
Because he's a historian, I mean, it's just like tons of facts and just information,
and he's really brought a lot of sources together.
And so I just, I love studying it.
Valid sources and it's just an interesting thing to think,
like sometimes Joseph Smith is a stumbling block for people.
I believe in the church, but I can't get behind Joseph Smith and what he did in this case or that case.
And I would say line after line in this talk, a man that's immersed himself into the history
and multiple sources and looking for the best information and knowing what truth is.
As he's testifying, point after point in this talk, I was able to say that is the testimony that I have of this man too.
Absolutely.
And I'll end with his testimony because it was beautiful.
He said, I testify that Joseph Smith was and is a prophet of God, a witness and a servant of the Lord Jesus Christ.
He was blessed to open the last dispensation and we are blessed that he did.
With joy and thanksgiving, I raise my voice in praise to the man who communed with Jehovah
and above all, praise to Jehovah who did commune with that man in his name, Jesus Christ. Amen.
Amen.