Welcome to Closer to Christ through General Conference, where two friends who love Jesus
Christ share our own approach to studying the most recent General Conference talks.
This is Abbey and Amy.
Let's jump into it.
We're excited today to go over the Church of Joy, what talk that was shared by Elder
Kieran in the Saturday afternoon session.
Definitely wrote this with joy in his heart.
It was such a happy talk.
There were words like this all throughout it.
Celebrate, rejoice, give thanks, good news, exquisite and sweet joy, gaining peace, tomb
bursting open, the defeat of death and Christ's victory overall.
We're just a few that we pulled from there.
We can't help but feel the joy coming from this talk.
Agreed, Abbey.
The premise of this talk is that because of the loving plan of our Heavenly Father for
each of His children and because of the redeeming life and mission of our Savior, Jesus Christ,
we can and should be the most joyful people on earth.
So does that summarize to you what he's focused on?
That sounds great.
Maybe a specific takeaway from this talk.
I would say that he specifically focused on our Hour of Sacrament.
He reminded us that we gather the ward and branch members to celebrate the Sacrament
of Jesus Christ.
He said nowhere should our joy as a people be more apparent than when we gather together
each Sabbath in our sacrament meetings to worship the source of all joy, who is Jesus
Christ.
I do love that he said celebrate.
I've never, ever thought of the sacrament meeting being a celebration.
So that definitely invited me to rethink the way that I look at it.
And I really like the thought of infusing joy into more of my worship.
Yes, he used that a ton.
You're giving me things to think about.
I'm going to try to just shelf that when I listen back to the podcast.
I'll explore those thoughts because we each have our part in that.
We don't organize the sacrament meeting, but the way that we attend it and that we come
to it and the way that we, like I'm still raising little children, the way that I invite
them to approach that can be with reverence, but with joy.
I think too often we're trained up in this church that reverence means something different.
And he definitely touches that in this talk.
For sure he does.
For sure.
Well, let's talk about that.
Yeah, he used the phrase joyful reverence and said, yes, it's a thing.
And I think, I don't know if we go into this, but Karen's a convert to the church.
Do you know how old he was?
I don't know how old he was.
He just said that it was Christmas Eve of 1987.
That's when his baptism was.
Yeah.
So let's say it was joyful.
He was 30 years.
Let's say he was around 30, let's say.
I don't like whatever if he's older, younger than that, but let's just roughly say he didn't
just learn about Jesus Christ in that moment.
He'd definitely been practicing other faiths.
And so he comes to this church, this gospel with an experience different than an upbringing
of the church.
And so he brings perspective and different eyes to the situation.
That I think we need this eye-opening opportunity to look at what joyful reverence looks like.
So he taught us a bit about what joyful reverence is not.
He said, is not a grim face on a stand.
It is not hands folded over our chest with heads bowed and a stern look on our face,
which may be nice to teach energetic children, but that we can learn and grow in our quest
for reverence.
And then he ended that section by saying, for many of us, this transformation in sacrament
services will take practice.
And I'm thinking, yeah, absolutely.
Right.
And the great thing is that we have lots of time to practice every single week.
They shared that in some sort of training.
They, and Elder Brower just re-addressed it in our state conference.
I don't know if it was in a leadership session or the general, but talking about the way
that the people that are sitting on the stand should look, like too often they're up there,
they're focused on things.
Maybe their mind wanders or maybe they're really in concern looking over the congregations.
It also could have been like, they've had five meetings before this.
Totally.
Middle of their day.
Totally.
And so it's going to take some effort, but it makes all the difference when they don't
look like they're angry at the world and mad about those five meetings they had, if they
can try to put a little smile on their face.
So when Adam told me about that, you know, if I find myself in a situation where he's
on the stand and I'm in the crowd, sometimes I'll, you know, we put an exaggerated smile
on my face and remind him, like, look like you're having some fun up there.
Does he ask you where your smile was?
It doesn't go both ways because I'm not facing the whole congregation.
Just the back of my hair needs to look good.
So when I kind of summarized that joyful reverence, did you, do you have any thoughts on that?
I do actually.
So one reason I'm grateful for family history, and there are many of them, is in when I'm
reading my stories about my people or talking to someone who knew someone that I never knew,
my great grandpa, so it's my dad's maternal grandpa, was born a hundred years before me
in 1876.
That's a long time.
So also relationships were strained and I never got to meet him.
Like exactly a hundred years.
Exactly.
Because she has a birthday tomorrow.
I sure do.
1976.
So yeah, that's a long time, I'm like, wow, that's a lot of difference, right?
So sitting in church listening to truth being spoken or singing words of joy and celebration,
I've had times where I want to sing a little bit louder or give an amen out loud as someone
is speaking or sharing their testimony of Christ.
And it's interesting because I learned just this past summer that my grandpa John was
a devout Southern Baptist.
I knew that part.
But in speaking with my almost 90-year-old uncle, who spent a lot of time with him, my
great grandpa never missed a Sunday and he sang every song with the choir.
That's where he found joy.
That's where he was.
He loved the gospel hymns.
You better believe the meetings were a bit livelier than there is tend to be.
So just, I mean, I say this in jest, but this story helped me to see that I may not fit
into my ward so well, but that I definitely fit into my family tree.
And I don't yell out an amen, but instead you'll definitely see me gently nodding my
head throughout most of the meetings.
Like that's how I found a joyful reverence is just nodding.
Like, I feel what you're saying.
This resonates with me and I love it.
That was like a trick I would play in college though.
I would sit eye level with my professor and I would nod my head and I would find that
they'd be like, oh, she is way into it.
I am teaching and it worked well for me.
So it's not a game.
I don't realize I'm doing it.
I think it's a good thing.
I say that sort of jokingly, but what I feel like yours is it's like acknowledging to your
spirit.
Your physical body is acknowledging to your spirit.
I'm hearing what's being shared.
I'm filling it in my soul and I'm like shaking my head like, yeah, I'm feeling this.
Totally.
And I mean, there is so much good worship music out here these days and it totally makes
you want to like put your hand up in the air and like-
Do a little more, right?
Yeah, like reach out and feel it.
So Elder Kieran touches on several ways that we worship during our one hour of sacrament
meetings, ultimately ending with the most important reason that we come to church.
And obviously I'm speaking about actually partaking of the sacrament.
We, I think we would probably spend a lot of time on this if you were teaching a Relief
Society lesson, we would say something like, what's the difference between attending a
meeting and worshiping at that meeting?
You're right.
There could be, like you could really unpack that.
There'd be a lot there.
Yeah.
What would you say about that?
What he said was to attend means just to be present.
Worship is to intentionally praise and adore our God in a way that transforms us.
And Abby, as I was reading that, I'm like, hey, that's one of your favorite words.
How do you intentionally worship?
Yeah, I don't think that I do.
Sure you do.
I don't know.
I'm like, it's giving me pause to think like, I'm so concerned about being quiet.
Oh, for sure.
You have young kids.
Yeah.
How about, have you ever thought of like, preparing beforehand?
If we pack things in advance, like I've seen people, I've done quiet books of family members
or you know, C stands for church and S stands for scripture.
Like I've done that in the past.
And yeah, like there are some pieces to that, that I'm trying to be like, focused on Jesus
Christ and help the littles do that.
And it's a way different experience.
Like sometimes I'll go with Adam on his assignments.
If we've already finished our sacrament, you know, our word time and he's speaking like
in a singles word or something and it's outside of our church hours, I'll pop over and I'll
enjoy that with him.
It's a way different experience.
It's much quieter.
So it's all about me.
I have been there because your youngest now is three.
Yeah.
Oh gosh.
And my instruction is focused on like, you know, getting what we can out of that meeting.
But it's like what I have intentions to study, like, you know, stuff about Jesus Christ during
the sacrament.
I'm finding like, yeah, only a small piece of that's happening in the actual sacrament
because I'm more like, you know, managing the kids.
Okay.
When I was like, sure you do.
In my mind, I see you as someone who worships more than just on Sunday.
And I think that's what I was thinking.
But I understand what you're saying.
I asked you about your, you know, the hour of sacrament.
And when you have young kids, like I remember with mine, I was just like, my job here is
just to make sure he doesn't ruin everything for everyone else.
I have a kid that's thrown matchbox cars.
Yeah.
You know, like, I mean, not just don't know what's going to happen.
They're playing it slips and it's like, oh, I'm sorry.
They're exuberant.
Yeah.
And now we just try to sit really far in the back.
I love, I do miss watching your family because now you're a little behind me.
Way behind.
I do love watching it, but I, my heart goes out to those who are living that.
Okay.
I will say I'm good at this part.
The hymns.
Yes.
You referenced that as a point of where we can either love it, you know, to use the word
either attending or worshiping in our hymns.
So I'm either opening the page and I'm singing begrudgingly, not really letting the words
pass through me or I'm actually invested in the song.
Like that is how I most often feel the spirit or how I can testify of Jesus Christ.
The best is hymns.
And you can be, you can use your voice or everything else.
You be quiet.
You know what I mean?
Exactly.
So hymns, that was good.
What do you have on that piece of worship?
I just love that it referenced DNC 2512 where it says for my soul delighteth in the song
of the heart and the song of the heart of the righteous is a prayer unto me and it shall
be answered with a blessing upon their heads.
So I just like that part that we can opt in and use our agency to have that be a prayer
because you're right.
Maybe that's the one thing that we say the whole time is the hymns.
And so, you know, during the whole meeting, that's pretty much what we say.
Unless we're speaking.
For a long time, because music does, like that does speak to me, I would use that.
We'd be singing the hymn and then I would read the hymn in my head as the sacrament
was going and add my testimony to it.
I would read it and be like, yeah, I believe those small and simple things about the great
and atoning sacrifice, the talks and the testimonies, those can either be, you know, they can be
worshipful or I don't know, I'm not really using it attending verse worshiping, but I
guess when I talk about talks and testimonies.
Yeah, like what our aim is, is we center our talks and testimonies on Heavenly Father and
Jesus Christ and the fruits of humbly living the gospel.
So that's what the aim is.
Does it always happen?
And if the assignment is done well, then all of the other things fall into place.
Like if Adam's assigned to give a talk and there's no mention of Jesus Christ in there,
I'm like, we both agree.
Like he's taught me this and then I just remind him of this thing that we do and it's like,
you tell me how to do that assignment and make Jesus Christ the center of it.
That's going to be a great talk.
And I've done the same thing.
It's like, would you talk on such and such?
Yep.
And then I say, with some freedom, we're going to talk about Jesus Christ in that role, in
that context.
I've seen all of those things.
Like I've never found an assignment that I'm like, I really can't cover.
I really can't focus on Jesus Christ.
And if that's the case, then I'd be like, politely, respectfully modify it.
I love that.
Politely is polite and respectfully together.
Thank you.
It is.
My mind went a little bit, I'm like, yeah, that wasn't a word, but you can't go back
and change it.
Or carrot?
No, just kidding.
The sacrament.
Okay.
Yes.
So that is the glorious focal point.
What we're building to in that one hour.
You know, 15 minutes of that one hour meeting.
What do you have to say about that?
Right.
So yeah, the blessing and receiving of the sacrament itself, the bread and water representing
the atoning gift of our Lord, are the whole purpose of our gathering.
This is a sacred time of spiritual renewal.
And I like how he says this.
He says, when we witness anew that we are willing to take upon us the name of Jesus
Christ and make again the covenant to always remember the Savior and keep His commandments.
I like that he said the anew and again, because it really is something that we do every single
week.
And when you do something as often as that, sometimes it can feel like it's rote or it
feels like it's, there's not a lot of heart in it, but that's the reason we're there.
So it is a chance to do it again.
And doesn't that stand as a reminder of the fact that he knows that we're going to need
him again and again, repetitively?
And hopefully we get iteratively better as we go.
But I remember getting baptized.
I happened to have been eight when I was baptized and I came out of that water and I did feel
so clean.
I did honestly feel clean at that young age and thought I never want to mess up again.
And I don't know if I made it past the car ride home that, you know, some things that
was said that shouldn't have been.
As I've matured and come to understand that that sacrament is an opportunity weekly that
I can utilize to renew my covenants as though I'm back in the baptismal waters.
Yes, isn't that beautiful?
And by Sunday afternoon, I do need it again already.
But it's such a great, it's great to have the opportunity to be made new in Jesus Christ
frequently like that.
I love that.
Yeah, that's a really good way to look at it too.
So we each come to the table.
I like that he said this.
This is summarizing, but essentially we each come to the table of the sacrament in different
times with a heavier grieving or burdened or grateful and joyful heart.
However we come, it's the best place to be at the feet of our Savior who succors us in
every moment.
Love that part.
And then he turns to this part.
Want me to quote what he said?
Sure.
We may have been conditioned to suppose that the purpose of the sacrament is to sit in
the pew thinking only about all the ways we messed up during the week before.
But let's turn that practice on its head.
I like that he said that.
Like there's no mincing those words.
Let's turn that practice on its head.
Like when I hear that, it's like, oh, you know, come to the edge of my seat.
What's he going to say?
This is going to be good.
Because I like turning things on their head.
You know?
Yes.
Let's get into that.
I will say, because it was making me think when we were doing meditations, there was
one that you would like reflect on the end of your day.
So you would almost like, you would almost rehearse your day.
So on Monday, Monday evening, you're going to bed and you're thinking like, what went
well today?
What did I really like about how this day went and what do I wish that I could redo?
So you would kind of rehearse those and then you would make it your intention for the next
day.
If you know you snapped at your children or you weren't as patient or you wasted your
time and death scrolling or whatever.
I'm just making things up on top of my head.
That you can as good as wash those away.
Like you've thought about it and you've fixed it.
So basically then I don't need to carry that garbage with me and bring that into the sacrament
room on Sunday that I just basically say, you gave me a chance to reflect, to improve
and to make the next day a little bit better.
That in my sacrament practice, it's going to look differently.
Oh, that's great.
Yeah, I like that idea.
I think that's what it made me think of when we said, let's turn this practice on our head.
I'm like, that was a game changer because I do feel like for a time that it was like,
you know, maybe encouraged.
I'm not saying any church leaders too, but that's maybe the way I understood it.
Think of all the bad things that you've done and ask Him to forgive those things individually.
Yeah, that is how I used to look at it.
So what do you have to share?
What action item can you present us?
So some of the things He shared, and these are so, I mean, He literally gave these to
us.
We can ponder the many ways we've seen the Lord relentlessly pursue us with His wonderful
love that week, which that was His talk last time.
I love that.
We can reflect on what it means to discover the joy of daily repentance, which is the
word of our prophet.
We can give thanks for the times the Savior entered into our struggles and our triumphs.
I love that, struggles and triumphs.
So because for me, I'm like, oh yeah, He also like totally came and saved the day multiple
times.
And the occasions when we felt His grace, forgiveness and power, giving us strength to overcome
our hardships and bear our burdens with patience and even good cheer.
That is such a great place to spend your time and your effort, you know, while you're sitting
there on the pew.
I love that.
You know what this indicates to me?
It's that He has taken the prophet's challenge to understand the atonement of Jesus Christ
in a different way.
Right, and to apply it here while He's sitting in church, which is our most important part
of the week, really.
Yeah, and He's had half as much time to be good at it than me.
And He's here.
And I'm not going to feel down on myself about it, but He's giving me something to aspire
to that I can think of the positive things that the atonement of Jesus Christ, rather
than like being down on myself for the times I've needed to rely on Him.
I love that.
Yeah.
Because He was born with the intent that we would need to rely on.
Right, like that was the whole purpose.
He's not catching by surprise and He's not sad that we have to utilize the atonement.
No, He's not Plan B for sure.
Do you want to share?
There's a quote that He shared that essentially sums up what you just said.
He said, we sometimes get stuck there in the garden at the cross inside the tomb.
We fail to move upward to the joy of the tomb bursting open, the defeat of death and Christ's
victory over all that might prevent us from gaining peace and returning to our heavenly
home.
Whether we shed tears of sorrow or tears of gratitude during the sacrament, let it be
an awesome wonder at the good news of the Father's gift of His Son.
Love that.
Yeah.
I feel like He really taught us well.
Exclamation point.
Yes, exclamation point.
Well, I mean, like it's just another way of Him like really being joyful in this talk.
Yes, right.
He's very exuberant.
He really wants this idea.
He really wants to see a change.
He wants to see our practices turn on their heads.
For sure.
He wants to see Amy like, woo hoo!
Not a little more.
Okay, so yes.
So to help with this practice, so Elder Kieran invited us to ponder, reflect, give thanks
and celebrate, which is what we just talked about.
The many ways our Savior has redeemed us.
And to help you, you could listen to the guided visualization in this talk, linked in the
show notes.
And I walk you through your own sacrament meeting experience and also ask His questions
in the context of sitting in the pew.
Would you say, because I haven't listened to this visualization yet, is this something
you do preparatory to Sunday?
This is the best part about it.
While I was preparing this, I had the thought, because you know, there is a section where
He talks about those with young children and those with special needs, you know, having
someone special needs.
So my thought was, yes.
When your attention in sacrament meeting has to be turned to somebody other than yourself.
Right, like it's not yours right then, right?
So essentially, you can do it in preparation for because there is a, and I don't have the
quote right here in front of me.
And then you just physically perform the act, the symbolic act of the sacrament in the sacrament
moment.
Yes.
And I love the part where He says, we can anticipate and expect joy in our Sunday worship.
And so that is a way I feel like as we do this, that's part of the guided visualization,
that that's part of it.
Then also, like you were saying, the do-over, it's also a do-over for the weeks where you've
gone and like, you know, you had all the best intentions to have it be a great Sabbath,
but for some reason, I don't know, maybe your kids needed this or did that or whatever.
So it's also a do-over.
So I love that because I feel like whenever we reach for Christ, He reaches our reaching
and He will be there every time.
This is definitely hitting right now for me because tomorrow is our ward's primary program.
Oh, it's my favorite Sunday.
I've been anticipating this for 11 months.
And there's no question in my mind that it's going to be fantastic meeting.
For sure.
I already can joyfully anticipate it.
Some Sundays it's like, oh, I want to maybe invite a friend to church.
I wonder what they're going to be talking about.
Usually our ward's totally great, but like, you know, you don't know.
Like you imagine how you want things to go for them.
You're like, is this going to be, you're going to bring them in on a fast and testimony meeting?
And you never know.
Or also sometimes you don't have your husband sitting on the pew with you.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
And so sometimes that, I don't know, I'm not you, but that might add a little bit of anxiety
for me as well where you're not able to keep everyone just in arms, within arm's reach.
It's an interesting thing because I wouldn't say that I have the experience of a single
sister or brother that's managing all the children.
But I will say having had at least five and a half years of my life managing the bench
by myself, it has given me a perspective to see the Lord compensated for taking my husband
away from me.
Oh, I love that.
And I think that all the sisters and brothers that are by themselves and managing the kids
have the chance to rely on that.
Like you, you know, sometimes that's, you know, Adam's parents, they definitely stepped
up to the plate and they would sit close by or help.
Yeah.
Pulled them off the back row and we had like kind of up row three to be as close to our
dad as we could.
But I don't know, it gives you different eyes at how to look through it.
And sometimes I'm like, I've got Adam there.
I'm like, we should, we're not so outnumbered.
And I'm like, sometimes they're worse.
You're like, this isn't a clear indication of what's always happening.
Cause he doesn't have to compensate.
He's given me my husband.
I'm like, I think I'd rather have you just kidding.
That's a lie.
No, but it's true though.
When the Lord compensates, it's perfect compensation.
It really is.
There's nothing that's.
When I look back over time, I'm like, those were some hard years.
Like I might have to, there were a couple of kids that like I was responsible for feeding
and wasn't just doing that in the middle of the sacrament room.
So I'd have to leave.
For sure.
I'm like, I'm going to take care of that.
Okay.
Any good questions that we can consider for ourselves as we go through here?
Abby, did you notice like he asked great questions.
So we already talked about action items, which were absolutely his.
These questions were his too.
I love how his brain works.
How is the savior?
Oh, sorry.
Um, we can think and ask ourselves how the savior would want our sacrament hour to be.
That's I don't think I've ever asked myself, what would the savior want this to look like?
Um, how would he want each one of his children to be welcomed, care for, nourished and loved?
And then how would he want us to feel when we come to be renewed through remembering
and worshiping him?
Those are so good.
Yeah.
Reflect on those, you know, have a self reflection on those and how we think that he would want
the sacrament to be.
We need to emulate.
Yeah.
You know, does, does he want that person to go and notice to be sitting by themselves
or would he have loved somebody to be sitting by them?
Would that person be you?
Yes.
When you're singing, are you just kind of going through the words?
Is there a way to worship him or lovingly, deeply?
Is there more of the way that you can let the words go through you?
If the talk gets a little bit off kilter in your own mind, you can, you can still focus
on the savior and still feel that connection.
You can, you, the, the meeting doesn't have to be set up for perfect success to, to change
you and be just what the, just what we need and just what the savior wants for us.
You like the compensation again.
So last thoughts or concluding thoughts?
I loved how he ended.
You knew he was just like ready to, I don't know.
He just felt like Tigger in this talk.
He just couldn't contain his excitement and joy.
And I love that he went to Alma 26.
He says, now have we not reason to rejoice?
Yea, I say unto you, there never were a people that had so great reason to rejoice as we.
Since the world began, yea, and my joy is carried away even unto boasting in my God,
for he has all power, all wisdom and all understanding.
He comprehendeth all things and he is a merciful being even unto salvation to those who will
repent and believe on his name.
And then this, now, if this is boasting, even so will I boast for this is my life and my
light, my joy and my great Thanksgiving.
And I think this is fantastic as we head into Thanksgiving.
This will probably post what the week before?
Probably a solid week.
Yea, love it.
It gives you a week to be reflective on Thanksgiving and you'll get one Sunday in the mix to see,
you know, do these thoughts help you turn sacrament meeting on its head as has been
invited by an apostle of the Lord.
In the most reverent and joyful way.
You did it so cute.
Alright, we'll catch you on the next one.
Thanks for being here.