Welcome to Closer to Christ through General Conference, where two friends who love Jesus Christ share our own approach to studying the most recent General Conference talks.
This is Abbey and Amy. Let's jump into it.
All right. Welcome to the Saturday afternoon session of conference that started with Elder D. Todd Christopherson. His talk ended up being titled, Burying Our Weapons of Rebellion.
And should I kick it off for us?
Go for it, Abbey.
When speaking of Ammon's mission to the Lamanites, it reads,
As many of the Lamanites, as believed in their preaching, and were converted unto the Lord, never did fall away. That comes from Alma 23-6. I just can't think of more beautiful words than those that could be describing any of us, as we're seeking to be disciples of Jesus Christ in our own lives. To believe, be converted to the Lord, and to never fall away.
What does this look like to you, Amy?
I know it can look a lot of different ways, but Elder Christopherson chose to focus on rebellion against God and used the weapons of war to clearly illustrate that.
So tell me what that looks like to you.
So I feel like he really did a good job of going to the scriptures and expounding them for us.
The key to the enduring conversion of this people is stated in the next verse. He said Alma 23-6.
So the next one, For they became a righteous people, they did lay down the weapons of their rebellion, that they did not fight against God anymore, neither against any of their brethren.
So this reference to weapons of rebellion is both literal and figurative. It means their swords and other weapons of war, but it also means their disobedience to God and his commandments.
So those were his words. I love the words that Elder Christopherson chose to discuss here.
I've heard many times about the weapons of war. Whenever I think of this story, in my mind, it's weapons of war.
This is the first time I've really heard weapons of rebellion, and I'm not saying my ears haven't heard it before. I'm saying it resonated this time and it felt different.
So this story has evolved for me since hearing it as a kid, so and starting to liken the scriptures unto me.
So as a kid, the first time the story was honorable and brave, yet it didn't hit close to home because I wasn't at war at the time.
Then later as a young adult, I realized that maybe I had weapons of war that needed to be buried.
It can maybe be contention in my heart, judgment, unkind words. And then later in life, I focused my efforts on sincere repentance of my sins and having the desire to have war taken away from my heart.
Now, I feel like with this passing, my mind is open to another layer of the story, is the rebellion part and not fighting against God.
I always thought before it was more, you know, knee fight, ilamani type of a thing, so a peer type of a thing.
This gives me a chance to ponder on why my weapons of rebellion may, or sorry, what my weapons of rebellion may be and maybe ask myself where I tend to fight God.
What things do I hold close and not let him in? And this is one reason I love the scripture stories, Abby.
They can mean different things to us in different times, different seasons of our lives.
We can learn from them and then strive to put them to work in our lives at that level that we are in that season that we find ourselves.
And this is another example of living scriptures to me, where the word of God reaches from the pages, finds us right where we are, and it's perfectly relevant.
I love when they bring up these Book of Mormon stories and make them relevant in conference, because if we've been following the Come Follow Me curriculum, like we've pondered on those things already.
So he brings up this idea and helps us add another layer to that story. And I know in four years when I go back to it, not only will I be thinking about burying my weapons of rebellion, but asking myself, reassessing what are those for me.
And as you were talking, one thing that came to mind was God never asked them to bury their weapons necessarily.
That's what they chose to do in an effort to know that they were in a covenant and they were never going to go back on that.
That's how they demonstrated they're having a covenant with the Lord. They could have put it in a glass, I don't know, glass wouldn't be a thing, but like a stone shrine above ground.
I don't know what else that would look like. But I feel like there's so much to get into with this talk, as we're considering what those things are.
So let's keep going. Keep teaching me.
So one of the things he talked about was repentance or turning to God. He says, Note the King's words, not only had their sincere repentance led to forgiveness of their sins, but God also took away the stain of those sins and even the desire to sin from their hearts.
Abby, this kind of reminds me of the beggar's coat in Elder DeFeo's talk, how he rent his coat or the thing that distinguished him as a beggar and went his way as a disciple of Christ.
These Lamanites buried their weapons of war or rebellion and did not take them up again, even in times of war. I love that part.
I do think that their reputation as being like fierce warriors probably stood with them for a while. So bearing their weapons wasn't like super pressing right in the moment, right after they made their covenant relationship and they're raising their children and things are like, obviously they've had some time to settle in and be raising up their children.
But that story becomes really incredible as it's their children that are going to have to take up the battle because they want to protect their parents and the covenants that they've made.
Love that. That hit me this year.
Yes, that hit me as well. And also in this talk, he says those same exact weapons that were buried for the parents to use them, that would be going against God, their covenant that they made with them.
But their children using those exact same weapons was not because they were fighting for their God, their family, their liberty.
And so that starts the whole thing that we're talking about in this, which is it doesn't really matter what the thing is. It's how it's used.
If the parents had picked it up, it would have been a sign of a rebellion. But for the children to pick it up is something completely different. It's a righteous use of the same weapon. I get what you're saying.
So it's the relationship to it and the covenants we've made. I mean, it's completely different.
I know he really gets into that at the end of the talk. So we are definitely going to hit that.
Elder Christopherson made an outstanding point about how the thing is used. And like we had lined out, it's two forms of rebellion.
The first one being open rebellion, and he uses that story of W.W. Phelps to illustrate that. Should I summarize that?
Sure. Go ahead.
So he was a printer for the church and edited a lot of publications. He wrote hymns. He was a scribe for the Prophet Joseph.
And, you know, something that really hurt him caused him to turn away from the church. And he was willing to give false testimony against the Prophet Joseph.
And he later writes a letter asking for forgiveness. Joseph Smith's response is this.
It is true that we have suffered much in consequence of your behavior. However, the cup has been drunk. The will of our Heavenly Father has been done and we are yet alive.
Come on, dear brother, since the war is passed, for friends at first are friends again at last.
Love that. That's pretty strong, isn't it?
It is so good. So that gives us kind of a hint of what open rebellion looks like.
Right. What that could look like.
And then the other form of rebellion being passive rebellion. Can you go with that one?
Sure. So passive rebellion would be ignoring his will in our lives.
And this is a quote from the talk.
Many who would never consider active rebellion may still oppose the will and word of God by pursuing their own path without regard to divine direction.
I love this part because at first you would hear that and be like, well, does everything need, you know, someone may say, do I really need to run everything through God?
Meaning the small decisions, the daily things. And this is what I love what he says.
I appreciate that he made the point there that there is plenty of room for personal.
These are his words, personal preference and individual choice.
Learning to make choices through thinking, weighing options is something we came to earth to learn.
He simply reminds us that in matters of salvation and eternal life, our theme song ought to be I did it God's way.
So he's not saying every single thing needs to be, you know, we need to ask God what this looks like.
Because, of course, he wants us to use our own judgment.
He wants us to have practice with our agency. That's the whole reason we're here. Right.
So I love that it's just in matters of salvation and eternal life that we turn to God and we ask him what he thinks.
You're laughing about that, Abby, what was that came to mind?
Because I just watched sing. So I'm thinking of a little man singing the actual song.
He almost sang it.
He did almost sing it.
I think he said, I'll give you a pass on it so you don't have to hear me sing.
But I was like, that's exactly that was my that was my I told you I asked for like short little snippets of yes.
What was yours for this? I did it God's way.
And then as we go on, I know we're going to get to this, but how something as simple as speech, you can either edify or demean or careers can become paramount focus and everything else will become secondary.
But but mostly just thinking about those short words, I did it God's way.
And I'm totally agreeing with you. Do we do we have to turn to him and be like, oh, I want to take two steps.
You know, should I do that? You know, we don't have to turn to everything.
But I was thinking as we get better at like being comfortable with the idea of living in daily moment, secondary moment, whatever seconds of our day, even down to like the most minute seconds that that we're thinking celestial and and involving Jesus Christ in our life and our actions and our deeds.
Like even even the first steps that we're going to take in the morning.
We're not asking his permission or is this the best thing that I should be doing? Like we act. We do these decision things and we do it in his name with our with his name.
And if our ultimate motivation is to draw closer to him, I think it's not it takes kind of some of the guesswork out of it.
What do you want me to do this way? Or what do you want me to do it that way? Yes.
He guides us in a way that it's our agency that's choosing like what actions we're going to be taking.
But it just kind of starts feeling more seamless.
I love that you say that, Abby. I was thinking the same thing.
The words I would would describe it as president, not president, sorry.
Elder Bednar has said living in living in Revelation.
And I feel like that's part of it as we live in Revelation, as we were very clear, as we're very close to the spirit.
It becomes clear to us when we would want to run something by Heavenly Father and say, what do you think about this and other ways where we're acting in our agency and are happy and grateful to do that, right?
To use our agency and to make decisions and things like that.
So he kind of cuts through like not the mundane details, but he really is going to hit us with like three main things, three ways to consider this idea of whether we're actively rebelling, rebelling, or if we're openly so openly rebelling or powerful.
Openly rebelling or passively rebelling and assessing some things in our lives.
So do you want to walk us through the ones that you picked up on?
So, yeah, I love it because he says some can be neutral, inherently good, and then some use the wrong way.
So there are three positions here.
The first one is like you touched in your in your notes.
James said this in the Bible, but the tongue can no man tame.
It is an unruly evil full of deadly poison.
So that's on one side that it can be something that is used to defile or demean or cause anger or contention.
And then on the other hand, it can be something like if you think of the way the words that Jesus spoke, like when I was reading, when Jesus was with the people of the Americas, that he spoke such beautiful things when he prayed to the Father about them, that they couldn't even write them.
You know what I'm saying? Like that is beyond that is using your tongue for something that is very godly.
So this is two ends or two edges of the sword as far as the tongue goes.
OK, so the second one is a person's career.
And these are just the points that he had.
One can find real satisfaction in a profession, vocation or service, and all of us are benefited, sorry, are benefited by what devoted and talented people in many fields of endeavor have accomplished and create.
Still, it is possible, so this is on the other hand, that devotion to career can become the paramount focus of someone's life and then all else becomes secondary.
And that is including any claim that the Savior might make on one's time and talent.
So he's just showing that it can be an absolute blessing and it can also be.
It's not a curse, but I mean, let's take that line right there, that the Savior may take any claim that the Savior's time may take on one's time and talent.
When you read that, did you think about the assessment of, yes, I've accepted a calling.
Yes, it's important to me. Yes, I want to do everything that I can in this calling, but that you neglect, you know, neglect everything else at the expense of that calling.
Right.
Nobody would be like, oh, nobody would say it was a bad thing to do all of the service and stuff.
But if you completely disregard or ignore or don't delegate those other things that are slipping to other people to help and step in, or do what you need to for yourself in that situation, that calling all of a sudden, it didn't become a blessing in your life.
Yes. So it's funny when you were saying that I have a friend in high school and her mom really, really, really liked to do indexing back in the day.
She did all the time. And so what my friend said, she said, she was like, she loves the people who she says, it seems like she loves people who are dead more than and she's completely neglecting the living.
I was like, oh, that's interesting, because even something that is wonderful and something that we've even been asked to do, if done too much, if it's out of balance, then it can become something that, you know, that causes contention in the home.
So something just as simple as that. So, Abby, as far as he spoke about in this talk, do you want to talk about the third point, which was our physical being?
Yes. He used Paul's words to remind us that we are to glorify God in both body and spirit and that this body is the temple of the Holy Ghost quotation, which ye have God and ye are not your own.
And I think Heavenly Father loves to see us take care of these wonderful gifts of these bodies that we have and might consider it a mark of rebellion to deface or defile the body or to abuse it or to fail to do, you know, what we could do to pursue a healthier lifestyle when choices are available to us.
But at the same time, we can be so obsessed with this earthly body that we tend towards vanity or we're all consumed with it. It's the only thing that matters in our life.
And the way that we look or dress, if done to the extreme, can force us to turn away from God and would then be considered an act of rebellion.
But I know, right? I know. Not I mean, all of them that I'm going to encompass this with all of them because I mean, I've neglected my body seriously and in seasons.
Yeah, in seasons. Like if I'm pregnant, I'm like, that's the last thing on my mind is to.
Well, I mean, I've always been pregnant, but that's not even a good example. Let's just take that out of the equation. Sometimes I treat my body like it's a temple and I really put a lot of care and attention to it.
And my my mental capacity is different. My ability to get things done changes my control over the natural man.
Like if I'm if I'm giving up sugar for a time or whatever, and I'm like, I don't want that sugar.
It's like toxic to me or whatever. And then if I'm not really focused on those things, I'm like, I'll eat all the sugar that I want. Feeling sick and like, so what? I don't need to exercise or you know, I've gone through.
I've I've I've been on the yoyo of this topic for sure. And I do know that like God's somewhere in like in the middle of those details like he's always have some have some guards on your life and and be the healthiest that you can be.
And also enjoy some of the things that this life has to offer. Totally like he's helped me find like my ultimate goal is health, not the praise of man looking good or on the other end of the spectrum.
I don't know what what the other end of that spectrum is, but I've been there, whatever it is, I've been that and I think we all have Abby.
Well, I'm just saying that one that one has been kind of my lifelong like sword. It's it's it's definitely something that's always on my mind.
The career thing. I mean, I think it's interesting tying into the beginning part of the talk, you know, have I let my career like overtake my life or do I keep it in checks and balances?
Sometimes I've had to work to financially support the family and the season of my life. I don't necessarily need to work. It's it's nice to have some extra income and I hope that doesn't like sting somebody's ears.
We're like, oh, I would give anything for a job. I I have to weigh that like I'm homeschool and I've got other obligations.
I'm involved in a few different things. And so I've always had to be like, well, is this the best thing for my family? If I if I pick up the work and at what point is it maybe not wise to be working?
And I sort of retired a couple of years ago and sort of not retired anymore. I know.
I know. But I guess when I when I I felt the strong impression that I needed to I needed to retire and my children particularly needed me in their schooling.
Like some of them have independent courses now. They're doing their own thing. Right. I'm a supervisor.
And in that couple of years, kind of post covid, like that's where that's where they needed me the most. And so it felt right to retire.
And then when I got asked to work a little bit, I was like, I did take that to prayer or like I wanted to feel comfortable with the decision.
And so I do work. But it's a very different scenario than an obligatory like, you know, this is the day of the week that you're working.
I look at the month and I say I'm available here because my kids aren't already on my schedule for appointments or I have an open work or field trips that we're going to do.
So in that way, I'm able to tame the idea of both loving work for social reasons, meeting people, obviously financially, it is nice.
But also saying, like, at what point is it, you know, just being with my children is the way more valuable thing that I can't get back.
Totally. So that that's one I've attacked. I've I've had to sit and wrestle with. Yeah. Lately. Right.
Finding the body. All of these things. We're always doing health challenges for each other and trying to find that balance between not just like looking at the body is like, you know, how can we look better, you know, for bikini or whatever.
LOL. For me, I'm not going to punish anyone with that for me.
But to have that physique that I that I'm looking for attention for versus like for my own mental health, I've started telling myself like it's whatever picture I'm looking at to be healthy.
And it gives me clarity. And like I said before, it's like me exerting control over the natural man instinct to want to eat all the sugars and things.
I'm not like on a good way right now. It's like we're approaching the holidays and I'm thinking it's going to I need to set some some gates for myself. Yeah.
Not these aren't commandments. These are just ways. These are ways to help me think how can I better live the word of wisdom in my life? Yeah.
I do want to share one thing like as far as like body and eating goes, it's so interesting because I had serious severe food allergies for more than a decade.
And it was like I I didn't eat certain things because I truly would be like I'm talking like violently ill for eight hours sick for three more days.
And so like it there was this fear that was around food like, oh, I can't touch that. I can have a whiff of it or I'll be sick. My family will be out of luck.
I will be in bed. You know what I mean? Like the whole thing like that. And then came my cancer journey.
And I just remember thinking that once I was through with my my year of cancer, I was on the other end of it.
I was I found a doctor and got rid of my food allergies. So all of a sudden I was eating that was and it was a joyful thing.
I was like, not fearful of fear based. It's to be fearful. It's a really tricky thing. Like I don't like being there at all.
I do not want any of my food to be around fear. I don't like living around fear in any way.
And that was part of my life for years and years anyway.
So now there's this beautiful like opening like this expansive way of me to look at food and just cooking for my family and baking for my family and still finding joy in it.
Finding that I use my agency in a way that is the best edifies me.
And I just feel like anyways, I was looking back at my cancer year and I was like, wait a second.
I put so much emphasis and work in taking care of my body so that I would live so that or quote so that I wouldn't die.
Why don't I put that same amount of effort and focus in it now so that I can enjoy life like this?
Whatever effort I put into it now, it's not going to be just so that I don't die.
It's going to be so that I can enjoy and just like fly higher and higher.
Anyways, I just love the feeling and the difference that I've had since that's happened in my life.
And I think it's so interesting that we have so many seasons that look different.
And I'm so grateful to Heavenly Father that at this season of my life after such a long fight that I truly use my agency in a way that edifies the body.
I love it. And now I want to be healthy because I want to be healthy, not because I'm going to be sick as a dog tomorrow.
Yep. And then you just kind of set parameters in your life that help make that day flow more smoothly and help create this body that are going to help you get the things done that you desire to get done.
Totally.
Not that it's the only focus of your life.
Yeah.
It's just part of.
It's a vehicle to get me to where I want to go.
Yeah.
And I want to make sure it ends up that it's there at the end.
I'm not going to say that I, well, I kind of did. I feel like I sort of detoured us, but.
No, you're good.
But I guess when you brought up the idea of the personal career, like when he was talking about the talk, I just kind of thought like, yeah, our words and careers and bodies.
Yes, I can hear you. But like as I'm sitting here talking to you, I'm like, I've wrestled with that myself.
For sure.
And it's changed. Sometimes I feel like I need to work full time so that I can afford medications for my kids.
And where we're in a situation where my husband covers that, then it's definitely more, you need to reassess that because just because it was the right answer to work full time before.
Temporary.
In a temporary way.
Yes.
It doesn't mean that it should look that way now.
Because your family has changed.
Everything falls and changes.
Yes.
So just because you asked the question once as you're assessing, like whether the actions that you're taking are in sort of a rebellion or whatever, it's always good to reassess.
Totally is.
I agree.
And I couldn't even guess the things that are on your minds that you're wanting to reassess, but definitely the challenge would exist in there.
Yes.
To ask those questions. What other action items?
Okay. So Abby, when we were talking about how there are so many different ways, it depends on the way that you use something, whether it becomes a weapon, whether it's something that is a blessing.
I love the key piece that, remember when President Nelson asked us to use these talks as a litmus test for what is true.
I feel like this key piece from his talk is a guiding directing principle.
He says, in the end, bearing our weapons of rebellion against God simply means yielding to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, putting off the natural man and becoming a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord.
It means putting the first commandment first in our lives.
I've heard that before.
It means letting God prevail.
If our love of God and our determination to serve him with all our might, mind and strength become the touchstone by which we judge all things and make all our decisions, we will have buried our weapons of rebellion.
So if there's a question of how do I know if I'm burying my weapon of rebellion, that was the answer right there.
And I just, I do have a couple of questions just in ending like what Abby was talking about, that we might, number one, ask ourselves, what could we do to lay down the weapons of our rebellion?
That was his question.
He asked us that.
You've asked, you've presented the case that you're willing to be open to if there's something that you can do to change that you're going to do it.
And so you presented in that way.
I recognize that there's some change that needs to be made in my balance of this particular thing.
And how I'm viewing this thing, right?
Yeah.
Help me see it with those eyes.
What can I bury that will get me closer to you?
Love that.
Okay.
And then the second one would just be how can we become so converted to the Lord that the stain of our sin and the desire for our sin are taken from our hearts and we will never fall away?
That's certainly something that could be asked, you know, year after year, month after month, but it's a good thing to visit now and just to see where are you right now with this?
I love that.
Like weekly in the sacrament.
Right?
Yeah.
It's an often question.
Yeah.
Because the answer to if we really have something really deep that there's a big change that needs to be made, he's too generous to just lay it out exactly like do this.
It's going to happen like immediately.
A lot of times those just take a little bit of finessing and work and time.
And so, you know, we have a desire to get to where we want to be.
But I guess that second question for me helps me think what can I do today to get me closer to you?
Some things you might have to quit cold turkey, but usually it's like incremental steps to get you to what you want to be if he knows that's where you're going.
I agree.
I guess that's kind of, they buried their weapons of war.
They were done.
They put the earth over it and then they were done with it.
I get that that's the case.
Some of the things that are coming to your mind, some of the things that I'm dealing with that might be the case.
Some of them might come in more gentle incremental ways as I'm asking the right question for that.
That's so good, Abby.
So do you take the last thoughts?
I just really love this talk and I feel like the questions that he gave to us and like I said at the very end, how he gave us that really, really good way to know whether we have put down our weapons of rebellion.
Loved it.
I loved it too.
Thank you so much for being with us here today.
We'll see you next week.
Catch you next time.