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Welcome to Closer to Christ through General Conference, where two friends share an approach

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to studying General Conference. It's good to be here with you guys today. So happy you're

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here. Today we get to discuss the talk called Opposition in All Things, and it was by Elder

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Matthias Held of the Seventy. And we'll just kick it off by sharing the story he did. He

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was talking about an invitation that he and his wife had to a dinner party. And so they

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didn't exactly know where it was going to be. So they were using GPS to get there, which

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is a super handy tool to get us where we're going step by step guided direction as we

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listen and we follow the direction that it's giving us. Some of us know better than GPS.

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So anyway, they find themselves off course and they're worried about getting to the destination

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too late. But it became a learning experience for him as he later contemplated how in life

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we also can sometimes take wrong turns and must live with the consequences humbly and

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patiently until we're able to change our own course again. And I thought just like

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the GPS systems, there's often many routes that can get us to the same location. I've

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definitely missed an exit before it reroutes for me and it gets in there. Sometimes it

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changes by a minute or two. Sometimes it adds a bit to the trip. But oftentimes, like you'll

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put in a destination and it'll say, okay, here's this one, there's going to be some

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road construction in your way. This one might be more scenic route. If you can handle the

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winding roads, it's going to be a pretty drive. And then some, you know, the shortest route,

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that's the shortcut to the finish line. But just thinking of that analogy helped me consider

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that everybody's paths may look different, but in the end, it's nice to know that we're

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all headed in the same direction.

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Love that.

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Did you like any particular quotes from this talk?

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It's funny because as we were talking about this, we both had, we pulled out this exact

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same one. This is one of my favorites. Life is all about making choices. Our Father in

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heaven gave us a divine gift. Remember, it's a gift of agency precisely so that we could

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learn from our choices, from the right ones, and also from the wrong ones. We correct our

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wrong choices when we repent. This is where growth happens. Heavenly Father's plan for

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all of us is about learning, developing and progressing towards eternal life. We can rest

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assured that our difficulties, sorrows, afflictions, and pains do not define us. Rather, it is

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how we go about them that will help us grow and draw closer to God. It is our attitudes

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and choices that define us much better than our challenges. I love that part. And if we

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don't get it right the first time, we iteratively get to get it better the next time around,

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just like Elder Remen talked about in that powerful virtuous cycle of the doctrine of

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Christ. I loved it because I'm so good at getting things wrong. Same. But it's so cool.

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I get another chance around. Also, knowing too that getting something wrong is just another

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opportunity to turn to Christ and to get it better. The whole iterative, you know what

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I mean? That whole thing is you get it better, you get it closer to correct the next time

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and you're a better person because of it. And that it's not like an afterthought of

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the plan. It is the plan. Jesus Christ will be the center of this plan because no matter

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which turns we take, which diversions, which detours, which roadblocks we hit, there is

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a way around and to and through him. I love that. So we've mentioned what the role of

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Jesus Christ is in the plan. I want to reemphasize from that quote you said, the divine gift

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of agency. I just kind of thought on that. We talk about agency, trying to get out of

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our vocabulary, this were like free agency. It wasn't free. It came with a price. But

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when we eliminate the idea of it being free agency, it's more like agency, divine gift

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of agency. That's a great way to think of it. And then just to pair that with, that's

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only possible because of our savior Jesus Christ. We would have to have a much more

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guaranteed plan. Like Satan was trying to provide us that path of not making any mistakes

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and not making any corrections. I thought a lot in this one. I'm like, as I'm coming

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to find more of the nature of God, it's made me think I also, there is also some value

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in like studying the nature of Satan. Not going to spend a ton of time on that, but

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in this talk, it talks about opposition and all things. And I'm like, as I come to learn

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more about the nature of God and then how his son perfectly mirrors who he is, I can

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say, what's the opposite of that? And those are definitely the characters that Satan embodies.

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And then if the emotion is coming from that, then I'm like, all right, we'll get later

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in this talk about like two sides of a coin. We do have to have a Satan and it's unfortunate

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that he has to exist. But the great thing is like, the more we learn about him, the

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more we can see how amazing our savior is encountering anything that he wants to throw

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at us.

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100% agreed. As you were just saying that, I just see in my mind. So first of all, I

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see when you said, you know, with Satan's plan, because we would be doing, he would

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say do X, Y, Z, and we would do X, Y, Z. That doesn't mean that my heart or my nature is

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turning toward God in any way. I'm just following a blind plan. Yes. And if you think about

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it, a lot of times I've heard people say, you know, we have blind faith and we just

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do the things that we don't really know why. That is exactly why it's not that way. Does

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that make sense?

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It counters what I'm being fed in my YouTube feed or whatever right now is yes, this cult

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that we belong to and we absolutely just follow a fallen blind prophet.

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Totally. And that's why exactly Heavenly Father is saying, no, no, no, no. Or our prophet

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is actually saying, learn about God and how he works. And then like you said, to realize

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that, oh, Satan's plan was this other way, which is blind faith and all of that. It is

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completely contrary. And yeah, it's going to feel really weird if you're living the

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gospel of Jesus Christ according to Satan's plan, meaning have blind faith and just go

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about your business.

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That would be very cult-like, wouldn't it?

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That would.

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Isn't it funny? Like, wouldn't it be the worst plan to create a cult to tell the people that

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you're trying to have follow your cult to say, study this for yourself. For yourself.

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Ask for yourself what your feelings are on it. And then act in accordance to what those,

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what your answer was to that question that you asked individually.

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That would be a very poor plan. I don't think it's so far.

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Would you say like any two members of the church are like really identical?

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No.

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I think we all have, like I said, like we're all on the path. We're all going to the same

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direction. We're all trying to draw closer to Jesus Christ. You know, I'm talking about

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these group of saints that are working in that direction together. Like I'm not talking

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about people that are like, like right now trying to oppose the work of the kingdom of

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God. But I'm saying, you know, members, members in our wards or whatever, we're all have that

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common destination, but we're doing it in a very different way. And it's a cult. I would

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say we'd be like on the same step. It's like, okay, now you've reached step two master level.

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Yeah, that's a great point. It would be way more cookie cutter, wouldn't it?

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It would look like that to me. So, um, I like, did you like how he talked about, it feels

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like a lot of, I don't know if they were directed to her, just the spirit, just impressed him.

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So many people reference back to the, um, to, to scripture story, but, but book of Mormon

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story, especially, I just love it because like we're right in the thick of it. We're

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like, we're all, we're all in it. So like, they could have come up with a lot of examples,

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but so many of them done such a good job to help us be like, okay, when I come to that

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part of the book of Mormon, because of this conference talk, it'll help me think of this

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a little bit differently. I know that makes me sound so dumb. It's like they've never

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shared scripture stories before. I'm not, I'm not going to say that I'm trying to say

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I'm seeing this parallel because I definitely, uh, definitely am, I'm being benefited. Am

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I come follow me study because of the conference talks, because of the little pieces that they

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put in there. So you're picking up what they're putting down. Yeah. So they were, um, so he

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mentioned early in the book of Mormon, Lehi teaches his son, Jacob, that the Lord gave

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a, gave unto man that he should act for himself and that it must needs be that there is opposition

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in all things. We really must have options to choose between an order to actually have

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a choice for sure. And like, as a mom, I totally know how to manipulate the situation. Like

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my kid wants to be in jammies all day. Well, I don't say, do you want to stay in your pajamas

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or do you want to get dressed for the day? I would say, do you want to wear your blue

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jeans or these tan pants? Do you want this red shirt or the black shirt? Like you're

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seeing the comfy jammies or do you want to get into these itchy clothes? Right. Right.

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So the way that we word things, but to my three year old, he's like, I get to make a

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choice. This is so great. Because of the, and because agency is a divine gift, I said

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it comes with divine assistance. Oh, I love that. We also know from the book of Mormon

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that we have been instructed sufficiently and the spirit of Christ has been given to

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every one of us to know good from evil. I love that because it just makes me love the

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book of Mormon even more as I'm able to immerse myself in that and study that for myself and

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relearn truths. Cause I think I knew, I know I knew them before it's just in print form

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that I get to refresh my mind on what those truths were that I knew. I agree. It helps

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me as I'm navigating these multitude of choices that I have to make on a given day and given

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week. Yeah. What if there were only were just two? Lots of times we get two. Two would be

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easy almost, right? There are a million in between each of those. So we were sent to

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earth. We got to choose whether we would exercise our faith in agency and make correct choices

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of that. I thought right back to president Oakes' talk on covenants and responsibilities,

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we get to choose to have faith and recognize when miracles happen or skeptically wait for

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something to happen before choosing to believe. Um, only then does that remind you of a talk

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we've studied recently? Oh yeah. So, you know what? Yeah. Call don't fall. This is the fifth

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talk out of all of these conference talks just in April, 2024 that addresses agency

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and they all layer beautifully with each other. And if you're reading each one of the things,

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um, it's very hard to miss the message that agency really is a gift and that we are, we

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are reminded that we're given it and we are reminded to that we are agents to act instead

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of being acted upon. I love that. Definitely heard that in this one, right? Definitely,

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definitely was brought into remembrance of so many key pieces of so many different talks.

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And I thought how fitting is it that it's in the final session of conference as a great

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summary piece to things we've already come to know to be true from all of our other study.

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Here's the question. What happens when we make a wrong turn, Amy? Ah, lots of things

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happen. Um, so I have a priesthood blessing and I love the wording in it because it says

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something to the effect. Um, Amy, when you've stepped off the covenant path, you have course

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corrected and you've come back stronger. And at first when I heard, you know, the words

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out loud, you've stepped off the covenant path. Like my heart broke a little bit because

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that makes me feel sad that I would do that at the same time. I'm human, right? But I

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love the part that heavenly father acknowledges. I come back stronger, which means I've redeemed

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the negative when you know, a negative thing that happened in my life, you could call it

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negative, but I have turned to God and I am stronger because of that. And then that reminds

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me that's the whole reason we're on this earth. Um, when I think of this, of making

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quote, making the wrong choice, my mind is taken to Adam and Eve living in the garden

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of Eden. They are living in innocence. They are living in a sense in neutral, meaning

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that they're not going in any which direction. They're just enjoying their existence. Right.

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And um, earlier this year I was praying about something and I was doing my prayer journal.

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So that means I'm writing everything down and asking heavenly father, you know, this

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is where I am. That's what I'm thinking of. And then I asked him a question. My question

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was, is it the best thing for me to take this course? There's this course that I wanted

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to take. That's a whole for the whole year and I pay each month. So I was counseling

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with them and he didn't like lay it out for me. He said, what do you want? And which

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I loved because that's a good parent, right? What do you want? And so I started writing

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down, well, I want this, this, this, this, and I was very specific about it. And then

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at the end I said, um, and so yeah, after seeing all this, it feels like this would

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be, uh, this course would lead me in that direction and have more of a framework to

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help me to live the goals that I'm wanting. And then what I felt I heard, um, I didn't

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know the words. I just, you know, started writing my thoughts and it was well, then

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that would be a good way to get there. You know what I mean? So I love that he went back

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to what do you want? So now tying this with Eve and her decision, she is in neutral, let's

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say. And I think she really thought long and hard about what she wanted. And guess what?

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She could feel that something was missing. Yes. And that would be progression. Yeah.

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And as far as she could possibly grow more like in the pre-existence, right? Like they

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were those beings as they come into the garden. Yes. And at the same time, yes, she's living

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a physical now mortal life. Well, I should say that would come with changes. You have

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a body and she had the beautiful, she actually saw the beautiful things. So there was that

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difference, but yes, it's the progression and it's the posterity. And that is what she

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was missing. I believe if she had decided to counsel with heavenly father, that he would

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have asked her, what do you want? She's like, I'm feeling stagnant. I want to grow some

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in some way. And I believe that her decision would have been the same, Abby. I do believe

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that it would have been the same. 100%. However, when we, I have so much trust in Eve, like

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I'm so proud of her and I'm so grateful that like she's been somebody that we were able

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to watch and be tutored by because she had to make a big decision with a lot weighing

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on it. Right. Yeah. With generations weighing on that. So when I imagine her counseling

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with heavenly father, I actually do, and this is just me, um, do what you're with it. These

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are my thoughts. When I, when I ponder it with the spirit, um, I do believe that she

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would have come out with the same decision of progression and having posterity. However,

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I believe that because she counseled with heavenly father, maybe she counseled with

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heavenly mother, maybe she counseled with Jesus as well. Maybe it was a big, you know,

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big counsel had she counseled with them. I believe that number one, it wouldn't have

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been labeled a transgression. And this is just my thought. And that, but this, this

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same thing would have gone forth. And so I do believe that whenever we counsel with the

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Lord, it's always a better outcome. There are always more options and it would have

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been, um, yeah, a decision with all of them. And it would have been a little bit different

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feeling. However, this is the next thing I want to say is that she did learn to counsel

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with the Lord. Because if you remember the part where heavenly father comes in, you know,

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says, like when they're trying to hide, yeah, from that point forward, how did you, who

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know who told you you were naked? And then, um, they are, they're being told, right? They're

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penitent. And he says, but you know what we, I mean, we have, we have a savior for you.

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Like this is our, we saw around corners. This has already been decided. And I mean, you

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can just imagine the feeling of relief, like that just flooded over them and gratitude.

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And they were like, oh yeah, we're all in. So they turned, they course corrected after

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that decision that wasn't made in the best way. And from that point forward, they covenanted

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with God to counsel with him and to move forward in that way. And I believe that they did that

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moving forward. So I don't see it the way that I used to see it as a kid where it was

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a sin or, you know, transgression, whatever you want to call it. Um, we'll call it that

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just because it's in our article, but it doesn't rub off on others. But like you said, if there

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had been some counsel involved, maybe that would change the word, but it may have still

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important to happen. So I'm like grateful that we could trust him to transgress because

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he had used his agency to do that. I think it bothers people. They're like, well, Satan's

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the one that tempted Eve to partake of the fruit. And so he was like, messed up from

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the beginning. Like he didn't want, he didn't want to have to be like the, um, antagonist

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in the story was like forced upon him. He got to choose that decision and to go that

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route, just the same as Eve chose to partake that Eve shared with Adam, that Adam chose

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for himself. And I know that this is true because like I've been told, I was a kid

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once, I grew up, grew up with parents who told me to do things and I did some of them

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and I didn't do some of that. They told me to do. And I, it's like, if, if saying, well,

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if your parents told you to do this, you're definitely, you have no choice in you. And

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it's only going to go this way. I'm like, by life experience, I know for a fact that

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you still inside, inside of your individual personal self, yes. I'm making your decision.

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Yes. And if that characteristic exists for me to make my own choices, every one of these

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people also absolutely, you know, and in response, direct response to, you know, Satan not wanting

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to be the antagonist. Let's go back to the very beginning where he chose to take away

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agency. And that's why he fell. That's why he became Satan. Lucifer became Satan because

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he wanted to take away agency. That's how important and like such a central part of

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this whole plan was agency and Christ are at the center of it.

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100%. Um, let's reemphasize the value as we seek to learn from experience and ask for

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our Lord's help and support. We can think that we are on our own in this trial and that

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we must suffer it alone or we can adjust our sales to the new reality. We can decide not

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to change anything in the darkness of night. We can turn on our lights in the cold of winter.

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We could choose warm weather or to wear warm clothes in seasons of sickness. We can seek

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medical and spiritual help. We choose how to react to each of these circumstances. This

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is in reference to thinking about, um, things that cause, uh, opposition in our lives that

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we have totally no control over. Right. Like you can't choose whether you're going to be

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healthy or sick, but you certainly can be sick with the mindset of a lot of times I'll

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think when I'm not feeling well, I'm like, man, my body does function so well for me.

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Most of the time I'm really grateful for it. Like when every breath that you take or every

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swallow that you take hurts that you can have a moment of gratitude for all the other times

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that it does work out pretty well for you. Right. Nobody loves war, but you really can't

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enjoy peace without having those instances of war. Not, not that I'm encouraging that

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we should have war all the time, but we've got history books to teach us. I was going

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to say history and even reading the book of Mormon, you know, with the word chapters

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and stuff, it's like, wow, we didn't need another word past that because we definitely

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have it to look at what, what the repercussions of that, like fun. We love to go boating.

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Let's say boating is so fun, but it's really more fun because we also are enjoying like

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the sweat of our labors. Totally put in a day work before we get out to the lake. Last

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Saturday we needed to share our sheep. So we did all that first. That is a lot of work

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wrestling a sheep. I've never done it before, but I was sweating, but at the same time,

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the whole time, I mean, there were bugs around, it was hot, it was sweaty and it kind of smelled.

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Um, and we were working and the whole time in my mind, I was like, oh my gosh, we get

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to go on the lake after this. Like that is so fun that we have two such opposite things

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and they really did bring joy. Cause guess what? The whole time I'd be on the boat,

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I'd be like, we did a quick, we did an awesome thing this morning. It was hard work. The

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whole family worked toward it. Everyone's happier because of it. But yes, it wouldn't

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be the same if I was just boating all day or if I were just working all day. It sounds

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funny, but it's true. Both are important. I liked that I highlighted these words. He

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used adjust, learn, seek and choose. They're all action verbs in agency. It's a matter

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of being acting, not being acted upon. Ideally. Absolutely. Sometimes you are acted upon like

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in these situations where things happen to either out of your control, but for the most

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part, like a lot of learning comes in to play when we do choose to want to act in some direction.

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Absolutely. And I feel like, I feel like I have learned over the years. And like I was

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saying that this is one of the five that talks about being agents to act or having an agency.

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I feel like the heavenly, I feel like heavenly father is saying to us over and over again,

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be agents to act. So even when you feel like you're being acted upon, look at the situation

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again and flip it on its head. The coin, right? Flip it. But also what came to mind is not

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ask why this thing is happening that's out of your control, but what can I do about it?

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Absolutely. And that puts, that turns you into the language right now would be victim.

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You know, that's what a lot of people are saying. Um, but yeah, it takes you out of

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victim mentality and it makes you an agent to act, which we're always happier when

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we do that on the road bound for survivorship. Yes. Thrivership. Opposites, opposites don't

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exist apart from each other. They can even compliment each other. We would not be able

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to identify joy unless we had experienced sorrow at some point. Feeling hungry at sometimes,

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especially great makes us especially grateful when we do have enough to eat. We would not

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be able to identify truth unless we had also seen lies here and there. Amen. So like two

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sides of a coin are always present. Um, he talked about getting married, having a family,

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children, like the greatest bit of joy in both of our lives, I would say would be those

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things. Yes. But at the same time that you open yourself up to that joy, somebody's going

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to get sick. Somebody's, you know, like there are going to be things that happen. We're

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going to have disagreements in our families, but all of those, all of those, um, you know,

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the potential for, you know, both sides of that contrasting great thing are all things

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that help us to grow, to be more like him. And it does definitely gives us like daily

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opportunities to make, make choices. And if we made them poorly, correct it, make them

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better the next day. Um, have you, I don't, I need, I feel like I need to go back and

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count how many times different speakers have referenced Joseph Smith in the Liberty Jail

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experience. Oh, right. Like at least three, but maybe like five. No, like in this conference,

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so many, cause I'm like so sad for him that he had to go through that experience, but

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we got so much good revelation from him from that experience. And it does help to know,

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like it, it, it, it's always helpful to know how, watch how other people, whether their

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trials it's such an injustice. Cause you didn't do anything wrong. He was in there for the

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wrong reasons, but same as our savior, Jesus Christ. It's like, um, he suffered the greatest

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pain and suffering the world has ever known, but the flip side of that coin is that he

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also brought about the most wonderful blessings that the atonement was able to do for all

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of the children of God. And it allows us the most possibility for the greatest joy imaginable.

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Can't really fathom the pain, but the flip side of that, like I know what kind of joy

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I've experienced in this life and don't even think that I've maxed out on the joy, the

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real joy that I could fill in this life. I don't think so. So you're not a grandma yet.

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Like all these fun things that are coming. Any, any last thoughts? Wow. Um, I just really

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think that over and over and over again, we are reminded to act instead of being acted

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upon. I said that before, but I just feel like for anyone who's listening, Abby, if

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you have ears to hear and eyes to see heavenly father is truly wants to teach us and remind

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us about agency that we do hold the keys for our future. We're not being acted upon in

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all ways. We're in control. We're, we're, we're in control and we have been granted

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access to power that will help us achieve what, whatever we're shooting for. I love

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that. Um, I will say he did talk about some action items towards the end of his talk.

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He suggested that we let, he said, let us constantly make a very conscious effort to

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see both sides of every coin allotted to us in our lives. Even though both sides might

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sometimes not be immediately visible to us, we can know and trust that they're all that

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they are always there. Why did you turn out so successfully? Because I was born to such

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a good family. Why did you turn out so successfully? I was born to the most rotten family in the

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world and I knew I needed to do something completely different, but I didn't have that

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life for myself. Right. Two sides, same coin. Yeah. This is a story like that's like an

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actual document. Yes. Experience for somebody. Also Abby, I would think just like, you know,

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as, as a parent, what if you looked at your child and truly by some stroke of whatever

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it was, luck or, or bad luck, um, all that was allowed to them or allotted to them were

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happy and joyful moments. I mean, that's great. And it's a wonderful thing. It reminds

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me of Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. Right. However, progression is missing there

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and well-roundedness is missing there. So I just, um, yeah, I see that as us becoming

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stronger people. We don't have the wish heart things on our kids. No, it's just,

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it's a consequence of life. It is going to happen, but for ourselves and for watching

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our kids or loved ones go through hard things, we do see different person at the end of that

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trial. So when in health, cherish and be grateful for every moment. When in sickness, seek to

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patiently learn from it and know that this can change again, according to God's will.

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When in sorrow, trust that happiness is around the corner. We often just can't see it yet.

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There's somebody that can see it though. Action item, consciously shift your focus and elevate

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your thoughts to the positive aspects of challenges because they are undoubtedly always there

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too. And never forget to be grateful. Choose to believe, choose to have faith in Jesus

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Christ, choose to always trust God, choose to think celestial as president Russell M.

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Nelson recently taught us. He testifies that Jesus Christ lives and stands there at every

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moment waiting for us to choose to call upon him to provide succor, strength and salvation.

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Let's choose to let him. It was so nice having you here with us today. We'll catch you next

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time.