Welcome to Closer to Christ through General Conference, where two friends share an approach
to studying General Conference. It's good to be here with you guys today. So happy you're
here. Today we get to discuss the talk called Opposition in All Things, and it was by Elder
Matthias Held of the Seventy. And we'll just kick it off by sharing the story he did. He
was talking about an invitation that he and his wife had to a dinner party. And so they
didn't exactly know where it was going to be. So they were using GPS to get there, which
is a super handy tool to get us where we're going step by step guided direction as we
listen and we follow the direction that it's giving us. Some of us know better than GPS.
So anyway, they find themselves off course and they're worried about getting to the destination
too late. But it became a learning experience for him as he later contemplated how in life
we also can sometimes take wrong turns and must live with the consequences humbly and
patiently until we're able to change our own course again. And I thought just like
the GPS systems, there's often many routes that can get us to the same location. I've
definitely missed an exit before it reroutes for me and it gets in there. Sometimes it
changes by a minute or two. Sometimes it adds a bit to the trip. But oftentimes, like you'll
put in a destination and it'll say, okay, here's this one, there's going to be some
road construction in your way. This one might be more scenic route. If you can handle the
winding roads, it's going to be a pretty drive. And then some, you know, the shortest route,
that's the shortcut to the finish line. But just thinking of that analogy helped me consider
that everybody's paths may look different, but in the end, it's nice to know that we're
all headed in the same direction.
Love that.
Did you like any particular quotes from this talk?
It's funny because as we were talking about this, we both had, we pulled out this exact
same one. This is one of my favorites. Life is all about making choices. Our Father in
heaven gave us a divine gift. Remember, it's a gift of agency precisely so that we could
learn from our choices, from the right ones, and also from the wrong ones. We correct our
wrong choices when we repent. This is where growth happens. Heavenly Father's plan for
all of us is about learning, developing and progressing towards eternal life. We can rest
assured that our difficulties, sorrows, afflictions, and pains do not define us. Rather, it is
how we go about them that will help us grow and draw closer to God. It is our attitudes
and choices that define us much better than our challenges. I love that part. And if we
don't get it right the first time, we iteratively get to get it better the next time around,
just like Elder Remen talked about in that powerful virtuous cycle of the doctrine of
Christ. I loved it because I'm so good at getting things wrong. Same. But it's so cool.
I get another chance around. Also, knowing too that getting something wrong is just another
opportunity to turn to Christ and to get it better. The whole iterative, you know what
I mean? That whole thing is you get it better, you get it closer to correct the next time
and you're a better person because of it. And that it's not like an afterthought of
the plan. It is the plan. Jesus Christ will be the center of this plan because no matter
which turns we take, which diversions, which detours, which roadblocks we hit, there is
a way around and to and through him. I love that. So we've mentioned what the role of
Jesus Christ is in the plan. I want to reemphasize from that quote you said, the divine gift
of agency. I just kind of thought on that. We talk about agency, trying to get out of
our vocabulary, this were like free agency. It wasn't free. It came with a price. But
when we eliminate the idea of it being free agency, it's more like agency, divine gift
of agency. That's a great way to think of it. And then just to pair that with, that's
only possible because of our savior Jesus Christ. We would have to have a much more
guaranteed plan. Like Satan was trying to provide us that path of not making any mistakes
and not making any corrections. I thought a lot in this one. I'm like, as I'm coming
to find more of the nature of God, it's made me think I also, there is also some value
in like studying the nature of Satan. Not going to spend a ton of time on that, but
in this talk, it talks about opposition and all things. And I'm like, as I come to learn
more about the nature of God and then how his son perfectly mirrors who he is, I can
say, what's the opposite of that? And those are definitely the characters that Satan embodies.
And then if the emotion is coming from that, then I'm like, all right, we'll get later
in this talk about like two sides of a coin. We do have to have a Satan and it's unfortunate
that he has to exist. But the great thing is like, the more we learn about him, the
more we can see how amazing our savior is encountering anything that he wants to throw
at us.
100% agreed. As you were just saying that, I just see in my mind. So first of all, I
see when you said, you know, with Satan's plan, because we would be doing, he would
say do X, Y, Z, and we would do X, Y, Z. That doesn't mean that my heart or my nature is
turning toward God in any way. I'm just following a blind plan. Yes. And if you think about
it, a lot of times I've heard people say, you know, we have blind faith and we just
do the things that we don't really know why. That is exactly why it's not that way. Does
that make sense?
It counters what I'm being fed in my YouTube feed or whatever right now is yes, this cult
that we belong to and we absolutely just follow a fallen blind prophet.
Totally. And that's why exactly Heavenly Father is saying, no, no, no, no. Or our prophet
is actually saying, learn about God and how he works. And then like you said, to realize
that, oh, Satan's plan was this other way, which is blind faith and all of that. It is
completely contrary. And yeah, it's going to feel really weird if you're living the
gospel of Jesus Christ according to Satan's plan, meaning have blind faith and just go
about your business.
That would be very cult-like, wouldn't it?
That would.
Isn't it funny? Like, wouldn't it be the worst plan to create a cult to tell the people that
you're trying to have follow your cult to say, study this for yourself. For yourself.
Ask for yourself what your feelings are on it. And then act in accordance to what those,
what your answer was to that question that you asked individually.
That would be a very poor plan. I don't think it's so far.
Would you say like any two members of the church are like really identical?
No.
I think we all have, like I said, like we're all on the path. We're all going to the same
direction. We're all trying to draw closer to Jesus Christ. You know, I'm talking about
these group of saints that are working in that direction together. Like I'm not talking
about people that are like, like right now trying to oppose the work of the kingdom of
God. But I'm saying, you know, members, members in our wards or whatever, we're all have that
common destination, but we're doing it in a very different way. And it's a cult. I would
say we'd be like on the same step. It's like, okay, now you've reached step two master level.
Yeah, that's a great point. It would be way more cookie cutter, wouldn't it?
It would look like that to me. So, um, I like, did you like how he talked about, it feels
like a lot of, I don't know if they were directed to her, just the spirit, just impressed him.
So many people reference back to the, um, to, to scripture story, but, but book of Mormon
story, especially, I just love it because like we're right in the thick of it. We're
like, we're all, we're all in it. So like, they could have come up with a lot of examples,
but so many of them done such a good job to help us be like, okay, when I come to that
part of the book of Mormon, because of this conference talk, it'll help me think of this
a little bit differently. I know that makes me sound so dumb. It's like they've never
shared scripture stories before. I'm not, I'm not going to say that I'm trying to say
I'm seeing this parallel because I definitely, uh, definitely am, I'm being benefited. Am
I come follow me study because of the conference talks, because of the little pieces that they
put in there. So you're picking up what they're putting down. Yeah. So they were, um, so he
mentioned early in the book of Mormon, Lehi teaches his son, Jacob, that the Lord gave
a, gave unto man that he should act for himself and that it must needs be that there is opposition
in all things. We really must have options to choose between an order to actually have
a choice for sure. And like, as a mom, I totally know how to manipulate the situation. Like
my kid wants to be in jammies all day. Well, I don't say, do you want to stay in your pajamas
or do you want to get dressed for the day? I would say, do you want to wear your blue
jeans or these tan pants? Do you want this red shirt or the black shirt? Like you're
seeing the comfy jammies or do you want to get into these itchy clothes? Right. Right.
So the way that we word things, but to my three year old, he's like, I get to make a
choice. This is so great. Because of the, and because agency is a divine gift, I said
it comes with divine assistance. Oh, I love that. We also know from the book of Mormon
that we have been instructed sufficiently and the spirit of Christ has been given to
every one of us to know good from evil. I love that because it just makes me love the
book of Mormon even more as I'm able to immerse myself in that and study that for myself and
relearn truths. Cause I think I knew, I know I knew them before it's just in print form
that I get to refresh my mind on what those truths were that I knew. I agree. It helps
me as I'm navigating these multitude of choices that I have to make on a given day and given
week. Yeah. What if there were only were just two? Lots of times we get two. Two would be
easy almost, right? There are a million in between each of those. So we were sent to
earth. We got to choose whether we would exercise our faith in agency and make correct choices
of that. I thought right back to president Oakes' talk on covenants and responsibilities,
we get to choose to have faith and recognize when miracles happen or skeptically wait for
something to happen before choosing to believe. Um, only then does that remind you of a talk
we've studied recently? Oh yeah. So, you know what? Yeah. Call don't fall. This is the fifth
talk out of all of these conference talks just in April, 2024 that addresses agency
and they all layer beautifully with each other. And if you're reading each one of the things,
um, it's very hard to miss the message that agency really is a gift and that we are, we
are reminded that we're given it and we are reminded to that we are agents to act instead
of being acted upon. I love that. Definitely heard that in this one, right? Definitely,
definitely was brought into remembrance of so many key pieces of so many different talks.
And I thought how fitting is it that it's in the final session of conference as a great
summary piece to things we've already come to know to be true from all of our other study.
Here's the question. What happens when we make a wrong turn, Amy? Ah, lots of things
happen. Um, so I have a priesthood blessing and I love the wording in it because it says
something to the effect. Um, Amy, when you've stepped off the covenant path, you have course
corrected and you've come back stronger. And at first when I heard, you know, the words
out loud, you've stepped off the covenant path. Like my heart broke a little bit because
that makes me feel sad that I would do that at the same time. I'm human, right? But I
love the part that heavenly father acknowledges. I come back stronger, which means I've redeemed
the negative when you know, a negative thing that happened in my life, you could call it
negative, but I have turned to God and I am stronger because of that. And then that reminds
me that's the whole reason we're on this earth. Um, when I think of this, of making
quote, making the wrong choice, my mind is taken to Adam and Eve living in the garden
of Eden. They are living in innocence. They are living in a sense in neutral, meaning
that they're not going in any which direction. They're just enjoying their existence. Right.
And um, earlier this year I was praying about something and I was doing my prayer journal.
So that means I'm writing everything down and asking heavenly father, you know, this
is where I am. That's what I'm thinking of. And then I asked him a question. My question
was, is it the best thing for me to take this course? There's this course that I wanted
to take. That's a whole for the whole year and I pay each month. So I was counseling
with them and he didn't like lay it out for me. He said, what do you want? And which
I loved because that's a good parent, right? What do you want? And so I started writing
down, well, I want this, this, this, this, and I was very specific about it. And then
at the end I said, um, and so yeah, after seeing all this, it feels like this would
be, uh, this course would lead me in that direction and have more of a framework to
help me to live the goals that I'm wanting. And then what I felt I heard, um, I didn't
know the words. I just, you know, started writing my thoughts and it was well, then
that would be a good way to get there. You know what I mean? So I love that he went back
to what do you want? So now tying this with Eve and her decision, she is in neutral, let's
say. And I think she really thought long and hard about what she wanted. And guess what?
She could feel that something was missing. Yes. And that would be progression. Yeah.
And as far as she could possibly grow more like in the pre-existence, right? Like they
were those beings as they come into the garden. Yes. And at the same time, yes, she's living
a physical now mortal life. Well, I should say that would come with changes. You have
a body and she had the beautiful, she actually saw the beautiful things. So there was that
difference, but yes, it's the progression and it's the posterity. And that is what she
was missing. I believe if she had decided to counsel with heavenly father, that he would
have asked her, what do you want? She's like, I'm feeling stagnant. I want to grow some
in some way. And I believe that her decision would have been the same, Abby. I do believe
that it would have been the same. 100%. However, when we, I have so much trust in Eve, like
I'm so proud of her and I'm so grateful that like she's been somebody that we were able
to watch and be tutored by because she had to make a big decision with a lot weighing
on it. Right. Yeah. With generations weighing on that. So when I imagine her counseling
with heavenly father, I actually do, and this is just me, um, do what you're with it. These
are my thoughts. When I, when I ponder it with the spirit, um, I do believe that she
would have come out with the same decision of progression and having posterity. However,
I believe that because she counseled with heavenly father, maybe she counseled with
heavenly mother, maybe she counseled with Jesus as well. Maybe it was a big, you know,
big counsel had she counseled with them. I believe that number one, it wouldn't have
been labeled a transgression. And this is just my thought. And that, but this, this
same thing would have gone forth. And so I do believe that whenever we counsel with the
Lord, it's always a better outcome. There are always more options and it would have
been, um, yeah, a decision with all of them. And it would have been a little bit different
feeling. However, this is the next thing I want to say is that she did learn to counsel
with the Lord. Because if you remember the part where heavenly father comes in, you know,
says, like when they're trying to hide, yeah, from that point forward, how did you, who
know who told you you were naked? And then, um, they are, they're being told, right? They're
penitent. And he says, but you know what we, I mean, we have, we have a savior for you.
Like this is our, we saw around corners. This has already been decided. And I mean, you
can just imagine the feeling of relief, like that just flooded over them and gratitude.
And they were like, oh yeah, we're all in. So they turned, they course corrected after
that decision that wasn't made in the best way. And from that point forward, they covenanted
with God to counsel with him and to move forward in that way. And I believe that they did that
moving forward. So I don't see it the way that I used to see it as a kid where it was
a sin or, you know, transgression, whatever you want to call it. Um, we'll call it that
just because it's in our article, but it doesn't rub off on others. But like you said, if there
had been some counsel involved, maybe that would change the word, but it may have still
important to happen. So I'm like grateful that we could trust him to transgress because
he had used his agency to do that. I think it bothers people. They're like, well, Satan's
the one that tempted Eve to partake of the fruit. And so he was like, messed up from
the beginning. Like he didn't want, he didn't want to have to be like the, um, antagonist
in the story was like forced upon him. He got to choose that decision and to go that
route, just the same as Eve chose to partake that Eve shared with Adam, that Adam chose
for himself. And I know that this is true because like I've been told, I was a kid
once, I grew up, grew up with parents who told me to do things and I did some of them
and I didn't do some of that. They told me to do. And I, it's like, if, if saying, well,
if your parents told you to do this, you're definitely, you have no choice in you. And
it's only going to go this way. I'm like, by life experience, I know for a fact that
you still inside, inside of your individual personal self, yes. I'm making your decision.
Yes. And if that characteristic exists for me to make my own choices, every one of these
people also absolutely, you know, and in response, direct response to, you know, Satan not wanting
to be the antagonist. Let's go back to the very beginning where he chose to take away
agency. And that's why he fell. That's why he became Satan. Lucifer became Satan because
he wanted to take away agency. That's how important and like such a central part of
this whole plan was agency and Christ are at the center of it.
100%. Um, let's reemphasize the value as we seek to learn from experience and ask for
our Lord's help and support. We can think that we are on our own in this trial and that
we must suffer it alone or we can adjust our sales to the new reality. We can decide not
to change anything in the darkness of night. We can turn on our lights in the cold of winter.
We could choose warm weather or to wear warm clothes in seasons of sickness. We can seek
medical and spiritual help. We choose how to react to each of these circumstances. This
is in reference to thinking about, um, things that cause, uh, opposition in our lives that
we have totally no control over. Right. Like you can't choose whether you're going to be
healthy or sick, but you certainly can be sick with the mindset of a lot of times I'll
think when I'm not feeling well, I'm like, man, my body does function so well for me.
Most of the time I'm really grateful for it. Like when every breath that you take or every
swallow that you take hurts that you can have a moment of gratitude for all the other times
that it does work out pretty well for you. Right. Nobody loves war, but you really can't
enjoy peace without having those instances of war. Not, not that I'm encouraging that
we should have war all the time, but we've got history books to teach us. I was going
to say history and even reading the book of Mormon, you know, with the word chapters
and stuff, it's like, wow, we didn't need another word past that because we definitely
have it to look at what, what the repercussions of that, like fun. We love to go boating.
Let's say boating is so fun, but it's really more fun because we also are enjoying like
the sweat of our labors. Totally put in a day work before we get out to the lake. Last
Saturday we needed to share our sheep. So we did all that first. That is a lot of work
wrestling a sheep. I've never done it before, but I was sweating, but at the same time,
the whole time, I mean, there were bugs around, it was hot, it was sweaty and it kind of smelled.
Um, and we were working and the whole time in my mind, I was like, oh my gosh, we get
to go on the lake after this. Like that is so fun that we have two such opposite things
and they really did bring joy. Cause guess what? The whole time I'd be on the boat,
I'd be like, we did a quick, we did an awesome thing this morning. It was hard work. The
whole family worked toward it. Everyone's happier because of it. But yes, it wouldn't
be the same if I was just boating all day or if I were just working all day. It sounds
funny, but it's true. Both are important. I liked that I highlighted these words. He
used adjust, learn, seek and choose. They're all action verbs in agency. It's a matter
of being acting, not being acted upon. Ideally. Absolutely. Sometimes you are acted upon like
in these situations where things happen to either out of your control, but for the most
part, like a lot of learning comes in to play when we do choose to want to act in some direction.
Absolutely. And I feel like, I feel like I have learned over the years. And like I was
saying that this is one of the five that talks about being agents to act or having an agency.
I feel like the heavenly, I feel like heavenly father is saying to us over and over again,
be agents to act. So even when you feel like you're being acted upon, look at the situation
again and flip it on its head. The coin, right? Flip it. But also what came to mind is not
ask why this thing is happening that's out of your control, but what can I do about it?
Absolutely. And that puts, that turns you into the language right now would be victim.
You know, that's what a lot of people are saying. Um, but yeah, it takes you out of
victim mentality and it makes you an agent to act, which we're always happier when
we do that on the road bound for survivorship. Yes. Thrivership. Opposites, opposites don't
exist apart from each other. They can even compliment each other. We would not be able
to identify joy unless we had experienced sorrow at some point. Feeling hungry at sometimes,
especially great makes us especially grateful when we do have enough to eat. We would not
be able to identify truth unless we had also seen lies here and there. Amen. So like two
sides of a coin are always present. Um, he talked about getting married, having a family,
children, like the greatest bit of joy in both of our lives, I would say would be those
things. Yes. But at the same time that you open yourself up to that joy, somebody's going
to get sick. Somebody's, you know, like there are going to be things that happen. We're
going to have disagreements in our families, but all of those, all of those, um, you know,
the potential for, you know, both sides of that contrasting great thing are all things
that help us to grow, to be more like him. And it does definitely gives us like daily
opportunities to make, make choices. And if we made them poorly, correct it, make them
better the next day. Um, have you, I don't, I need, I feel like I need to go back and
count how many times different speakers have referenced Joseph Smith in the Liberty Jail
experience. Oh, right. Like at least three, but maybe like five. No, like in this conference,
so many, cause I'm like so sad for him that he had to go through that experience, but
we got so much good revelation from him from that experience. And it does help to know,
like it, it, it, it's always helpful to know how, watch how other people, whether their
trials it's such an injustice. Cause you didn't do anything wrong. He was in there for the
wrong reasons, but same as our savior, Jesus Christ. It's like, um, he suffered the greatest
pain and suffering the world has ever known, but the flip side of that coin is that he
also brought about the most wonderful blessings that the atonement was able to do for all
of the children of God. And it allows us the most possibility for the greatest joy imaginable.
Can't really fathom the pain, but the flip side of that, like I know what kind of joy
I've experienced in this life and don't even think that I've maxed out on the joy, the
real joy that I could fill in this life. I don't think so. So you're not a grandma yet.
Like all these fun things that are coming. Any, any last thoughts? Wow. Um, I just really
think that over and over and over again, we are reminded to act instead of being acted
upon. I said that before, but I just feel like for anyone who's listening, Abby, if
you have ears to hear and eyes to see heavenly father is truly wants to teach us and remind
us about agency that we do hold the keys for our future. We're not being acted upon in
all ways. We're in control. We're, we're, we're in control and we have been granted
access to power that will help us achieve what, whatever we're shooting for. I love
that. Um, I will say he did talk about some action items towards the end of his talk.
He suggested that we let, he said, let us constantly make a very conscious effort to
see both sides of every coin allotted to us in our lives. Even though both sides might
sometimes not be immediately visible to us, we can know and trust that they're all that
they are always there. Why did you turn out so successfully? Because I was born to such
a good family. Why did you turn out so successfully? I was born to the most rotten family in the
world and I knew I needed to do something completely different, but I didn't have that
life for myself. Right. Two sides, same coin. Yeah. This is a story like that's like an
actual document. Yes. Experience for somebody. Also Abby, I would think just like, you know,
as, as a parent, what if you looked at your child and truly by some stroke of whatever
it was, luck or, or bad luck, um, all that was allowed to them or allotted to them were
happy and joyful moments. I mean, that's great. And it's a wonderful thing. It reminds
me of Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. Right. However, progression is missing there
and well-roundedness is missing there. So I just, um, yeah, I see that as us becoming
stronger people. We don't have the wish heart things on our kids. No, it's just,
it's a consequence of life. It is going to happen, but for ourselves and for watching
our kids or loved ones go through hard things, we do see different person at the end of that
trial. So when in health, cherish and be grateful for every moment. When in sickness, seek to
patiently learn from it and know that this can change again, according to God's will.
When in sorrow, trust that happiness is around the corner. We often just can't see it yet.
There's somebody that can see it though. Action item, consciously shift your focus and elevate
your thoughts to the positive aspects of challenges because they are undoubtedly always there
too. And never forget to be grateful. Choose to believe, choose to have faith in Jesus
Christ, choose to always trust God, choose to think celestial as president Russell M.
Nelson recently taught us. He testifies that Jesus Christ lives and stands there at every
moment waiting for us to choose to call upon him to provide succor, strength and salvation.
Let's choose to let him. It was so nice having you here with us today. We'll catch you next
time.