Welcome to Closer to Christ, the General Conference, where two friends share our own approach to
studying General Conference. It is so good to have you with us today. Welcome. Thanks.
We're happy to have you guys. We get to talk about the talk titled, Bridging the Two Great
Commandments, and it's done by Elder Gary E. Stevenson, Quorum of the Twelve Apostles.
His summary is that he's going to talk about the two towers on either side of a bridge.
He does a lot of world travel and he's pretty fond of bridges. He kind of makes it a point
to see them, recognize them, document their beauty. And he did share some pictures. I
was like, wow, he's seen some neat bridges. So he's talked about how these two towers
together shoulder the load of the sweeping main suspension cables and the vertical suspender
cables which cradle the roadway below. And the extraordinary stabilizing capacity or
power of the tower is the magic behind the engineering of the bridge. So he asks us to
look at these two towers with him through a gospel lens. And so we'll ask the question,
what are the two great laws or towers if we're looking at them as this bridge analogy? So
he says that the first commandment, first tower is, thou shalt love the Lord thy God
with all thy heart, with all thy soul, with all thy mind. And then second commandment,
second tower, thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
Do you feel like this is coming up a lot, these two great commandments?
Yes. He talked about how President Oaks talked about it. Maybe it was two conferences ago
he referenced that talk. Yes. I think we get into that a little bit later about just getting
more in depth of it. But yes, we have talked about it more and also seen really good, I
feel, really good ways that we can implement that because sometimes it feels, I don't know,
the word is nebulous or we're not sure. It feels like an abstract thing. And this is
showing us how to
It feels like an abstract thing. And I think each of us have to apply this specifically
in our lives, the way that we're living our lives, we have to like look at that for ourselves
and decide how we're going to apply this. But tying it to an analogy of a well structured,
well planned, engineered bridge and realizing that it takes both of those components in
an equal fashion to really carry the weight that this life is going to bring our way means
that it's come up. It means that too often they're seeing people putting too much emphasis
in one versus the other. Yes, absolutely. And what imbalance that's going to cause.
So I guess that's kind of jumping to the end of the talk. But in talking with Amy, we both
agree this talk is heavy. And it's definitely one that's going to cause us to each need
to reflect on where we are in the bridge building process, where we can make modifications to
strengthen ourselves. Not looking at like, Oh, look how you're applying that. Look at
your one tower is good. Your other one's a little soft or whatever. It's like, this is
your own bridge. How your own bridge is being built.
Okay. So first great commandment to love God. What are some ways that we love God, Amy?
I love that he shared that he just said Jesus taught if you love me, keep my commandments.
That's pretty basic, right? And then he has different ideas. We can love Heavenly Father
and Jesus Christ. So both of them together. When we do this, that leads to prayer, scripture
study and temple worship. We show love for the Heavenly Father and His Son through paying
and tithing, keeping the Sabbath day holy, living a virtuous and chaste life and being obedient.
And I really like this part again, he makes it very simple. Loving the Lord is often measured
in small daily deeds, footsteps on the covenant path. We've heard that before too. And then
I like it too. He talked about youth. So for youth, what would it look like? It might look
like using social media to build up rather than tear down, leaving the party movie or
activity where standards might be challenged and then showing reverence for sacred things.
Those are so good. I want to share those and just put them on a piece of paper for my kids.
I think I'm going to put up on the fridge just to remind them that that's another way
that we show love for Heavenly Father is having reverence for sacred things, which are His
things. And it can become ours as we demonstrate through our intention. Love that. What talk
was it we were talking about? Like, how does he know the intent of my heart by the actions
that I take? So I want to be closer to Him and show my love for Him. Then I'm going
to show love for the things that He has respect for. The suggestions that He's given me on
the standards that bring me closer to Him. So what are some ways that we can show love
to our neighbor?
Christ-like deeds of kindness and service. And some ideas include let go of grudges.
Love that. Forgive enemies. We've heard that multiple times in our prophet. Welcome and
minister to your neighbors and assist the elderly. And then President Nelson teaches
living that second. This is so good. Living that second great commandment is the key to
becoming a true disciple of Jesus Christ. So again, it's like, I feel like this talk
is just an invitation. At least it was for me, you know, how some talks hit different
people differently, right? For me, it truly felt like an invitation. Amy, take a look
at this and really dissect it and see where you are on this path. Like, what does it mean
to you? If our prophet is literally saying that living the second commandment is the
key to becoming a true disciple of Christ, that's a big deal. So I want to see how that
looks in my life a little bit more.
Do you know how bridge construction goes? Do they build one entire tower and then build
the other?
I would guess because you have to have something to suspend the cables and all the things to,
right? You have to have the anchor point. So first it's the bottom part, the foundation,
then they do the tower and the other tower, and then they start securing those big cables
to it and all that.
But we agree that both towers have to be like equally up. Whichever one comes first or second,
that's not really what I'm trying to visualize. What I guess I'm saying is that if we put
so much focus on one tower versus the other, we don't really have the components that we
need to bridge the gap that we're talking about.
And we're still going to get into that in a second. It's so true.
If we're talking about this bridge analogy, we've got the two towers as the first and
second great commandments. What is bridging that gap?
I love this so much because you know how one of the primary answers is like, I don't know
if you've heard this before, but there was a primary teacher and she started describing
a squirrel. And she said, who am I talking about? And one of the kids raised his hand
and said, I know the answer is Jesus, but it sounds like a squirrel to me.
The point of that is this again, like of course.
You have to tell me because this is too funny.
Well, because the answer is always Jesus. That was the whole point, right? So she wanted
to give a different answer, but she's like, I know it's Jesus because Jesus is always
the answer.
That's funny.
I know.
This has nothing to do with anything, but since we're talking about that, one time
I was leading the music and we were doing Pictionary and the little girl couldn't read,
so I had to give her the prompt. And I said, okay, so I said, draw a picture of Jesus.
She starts drawing lots of these triangles with circles on it, triangle, triangle, triangle.
And so then I'm like, at a loss. I know I told her to draw a picture of Jesus. And she
was a visitor. No. And so I was like, okay, honey, nobody could guess. Nobody guessed
what your picture was. So you win. Tell us what you've drawn. And she said, it's a picture
of Jesus. And that's when I realized I talk really poorly. I need to enunciate, but I
am so proud of myself. I kept my giggles together. And so this was like on a huge sheet of paper.
I don't even know what size this is, but it's like a poster board size, but like fluid paper.
I had to save it. And then I had to grab Karen from our ward because it was her granddaughter
visiting and I had to like show her the story. And we both had, like, it felt like a reader's
digest story. It was so funny. But only like a church crowd would appreciate it. So I am
so glad I've got this audience that I can tell that story to. When you tell a kid to
draw a picture of Jesus, don't make it sound like cheeses. Okay, back to the story.
But yes, like even in this bridge principle, Abby, like Jesus bridges the gap. He's the
reason a bridge is not just two impressive towers. In Elder Stevenson's words, Jesus
bridges our heavenly, I love this, upward gaze to the love of the Lord with our earthly
outward gaze to love our fellow men and women. So again, Jesus is the thing that makes the
bridge. I mean, that's the part we actually drive on. He's the reason we get places,
right?
He's totally the reason we get places. And from the get go, as you were talking, I'm
like, not going to make this so complicated. But you know, you might say, I'm putting
effort into the first great commandment. I'm going to learn more about loving the Lord
by God. So doing little things that make me love him, and then it naturally makes me want
to show my love to his other children and do things for them. So I'm like simultaneously
building up those towers.
Because it's balanced, right?
It can be balanced. I love that.
That it's not like I think I have to put all of my effort into this one thing. And once
I have that locked down, then I can do the other.
He really is a great visual. Like he was a masterful teacher in this. I love it.
We have a few bridges around here. Not like they're massive and grand, but still connects
they to be.
And they do a lot of rivers that we go over. So it's definitely something I can think on
even here in my little local place. So as a bridge is constructed, balance is key, right?
I think we've agreed on that. It's a brilliant engineering plan. And so Elder Stevenson touches
on the two ways on, well, maybe there are more, but I can think of two from his talk
that he talked about how we can become unbalanced in this process. So I think we should spend
a little time on that.
As I'm thinking of how I can do a balanced approach to building it, what does it look
like when it's an unbalanced approach?
There you go. That's a good place to start. Again, he referenced this from President Oaks
talk. So he says, love of God. Some are so focused on keeping the commandments that they
show little tolerance of those they see as less righteous. Some find it difficult to
love those who are choosing to live their lives outside of the covenant or even away
from any religious participation. And here I think it's just a really good practice
to ask ourselves, heavily father, show me how I'm imbalanced in this way. How could
I improve? And maybe you're doing great in this and that's not the case, but more likely
than not, he would help you to just see in your everyday life, oh, maybe that's a little
bit imbalanced when I said that or thought that or whatever, and just go about your day.
This analogy though, don't you see it as like, we're all building our own bridge. Oh, yeah.
You have plenty of time to stop and look at somebody else's bridge and critique how poorly
they're building it. What's happening to your own bridge while you have your eyes focused
on somebody else's bridge?
Right. Right. And is it crumbling? And the second one is love our neighbor. There are
those who emphasize the importance of loving others without acknowledgement that we are
all accountable to God. Some refuse entirely the notion that there is such a thing as absolute
truth or right and wrong and believe that the only thing required of us is complete
tolerance and acceptance of the choices of others. I really like this because as soon
as you have something that's so contrasting, the first one with the other one, it helps
us to see clearly where we want to be in the middle. Do you know what I mean? Because it's
so balanced, not in the middle of the line, firm on both of those commandments, but balanced.
And balance is going to look different every day and for every person, right? Because you
don't have all the time in the world to work on all of these. But having a balanced approach
and being prayerful, like we talked in the last one with Elder Godoy, pray along the
way. He's going to help you make little tweaks and just adjustments along the way.
So either of these things being imbalanced could cause your spiritual bridge to tip over
or fall even. So it's probably moments of self-reflection. You're going to ask yourself,
where do I fall in the scheme of this bridge building activity? How do we build our own
bridge of faith and devotion erecting tall bridge towers of both loving God and loving
our neighbor?
You know, sometimes when you think about it, like it could feel overwhelming, right? Like
there's so much. Sometimes it just feels like there's a lot, you don't know where to start.
And Elder Stevenson reminds us to just start. I love the way he said it. I'm just going
to say it in a few short words. But our first attempts at building this bridge might look
like a sketch on a napkin. And then over time, with prayerful and thoughtful planning, rough
ideas are refined, new actions become habits, and those early drafts become polished blueprints.
So it's certainly with time and with effort, right? It doesn't just happen. You know,
so thinking of this feeling of overwhelm and just quote all the things that need to be
done. On Sunday this week, a sister asked how to prepare for the second coming of Christ.
And at first as a group, you know, together we counseled as a Relief Society, we listed
all the basics like prayer, scripture, study and making and keeping covenants. And soon
we had a really long list. There were lots of things. And one sister just said out loud,
okay, that's enough. That's too many already. I'm totally overwhelmed. And I heard her,
like I understood what she was saying. And I was just thinking in my mind, like making
a list is helpful and it can be helpful because it takes something in your head and puts it
right there in front of you. But this is what I wanted to share. While it's imperative
to know what needs to be done and who we need to become as a people, God tells each one
of us over and over, fear not. And this could also be said, do not feel overwhelmed. Looking
at this through very basic principles of a bridge, if we're going to apply this to the
bridge principle that we just learned, a balanced approach is necessary. I agree with you. This
list making is helpful, but like clear back to the very, very first episode of this podcast,
we talked about, you know, suggestions would be presented in this podcast format. And if
it felt right, you pick it up. Exactly. And if it doesn't, you shelf it. Ideally, you
never really throw things away because at another point in your life, you know that
that thing exists that you can pick up if circumstances change. Good point. And that's
the thing that you want to do at that point. I love that, Abby. So yeah, it can be helpful,
but it's not like do all these things right now every day. Right. Right. I've learned
a lot of things from these conference talks and some I'm like, that's a great suggestion,
but I don't find myself doing all of the things from all of the talks, all of the action items.
I feel the same. I'm focusing on the ones that matter the deepest to me right now in
the process of working on that. I think on the perimeter, those other things are being
developed. I agree, Abby. That's how that works with this first and second great commandment.
Love that. As you're working to show God your love, then it naturally evolves into
demonstrating that through, you know, your intent through actions. And a lot of times
those actions are not necessarily for yourself, they're for somebody else. And in that way,
equal time that you're spending in loving God, you're also loving his other children
as a disciple. That's so great. And I mean, sometimes it's not necessarily equal time,
but like it balances out in it's the same mountain. Yes, it's the same mountain. I love
that. Like which one do I work on first? You work on them simultaneously. Yes. That's always
without overwhelm. Right. That's the other thing too, is I love that you vocalize the
way that you know, verbalize the way that you approach this. And I love too that you're
not that you're saying with your words, I don't do all of them every single day. And
at the same time, I'm not a failure. Like I'm succeeding in this. Because a lot of times
I feel like people think like, especially this woman who cried out, okay, that's enough.
In my mind, I thought, oh, I wonder if she feels like she has to do every single one
of these on this list, quote, or she's a failure. And that is not the way I look at it at all.
And I really believe that that's not the way that the Heavenly Father looks at it. It's
like choose your own adventure. Which one's going to bring you the most joy today? Yes.
Bring you closer to Jesus today. Exactly. And if tomorrow that looks different, great.
So, I love that we're really talking about these basic things that we can do on a daily
or weekly basis. Like the temple, the temple is so great. Can we attend the temple daily?
That would be awesome. But if we can't, are we failures? No. But if you just look at temple
attendance and say, attend as often as your circumstances allow. If you're busy with six
kids at home, and one of them you're responsible for feeding, your temple attendance is not
going to look like mine. I can leave my kids and be like, see you in a couple hours. Right.
It's not the season for that. Right. So, let's make the connection between how we talked
about that napkin sketch principle. Like more firm, like into that firm blueprint. So, these
are just some thoughts that I had as far as looking at that. Like, how does that apply
when we're talking about serving others and family history and collecting food storage,
all the things, right? So, the first one would be like to make, number one, make a rough
blueprint. So, quote, I'd like to beef up my food storage or great grandma and grandpa's
anniversary is coming up. I want to have a family dinner and share stories about them.
That's pretty basic, right? Pretty simple. Two, rotate. Needful, just like Abby was saying,
you take the things that work for you right now. So, needful things like family history,
serving your neighbor and building up a food storage or hygiene supplies. These things
can be done frequently, not all of them, every day. You just rotate, right? Whatever comes
to you. And then number three, I think this is the biggest thing. Well, it's like, well,
how do you know what to rotate? Ask, Heavenly Father, what is needful today? And then you
do that one thing. I find myself in seasons, just like we talked about with the woman who
has six kids and one of them she's, you know, feeding or that relies on her solely for food.
I find myself in seasons where I focus more on family history and others where I focus
more on building my food storage and leaning to like medicines and supplies and things
like that. I still find that this is in balance. In balance, not M with an M. And then four,
this is for those with a tight schedule. This is just an idea. Try to free up 15 minutes
and ask God to fill that time slot in your schedule with what is needed that day. Maybe
you could do this daily, maybe once a week, monthly, as often as your circumstances allow.
This is where that list would come in handy because if it was like at the beginning of
this kind of monthly calendar that you have available to you, you could set a goal that
you were going to do scripture study for 15 minutes a day or what's a cool thing. We've
done a challenge where I gave like a list of things they could pick up. Like we did
a compounding challenge. It was like the first week you did one thing and I think I built
it to six or eight weeks and then you added something of your picking the second week
and still kept the first week thing. And it was totally variable. Like if you felt maxed
out at the two or three items, like you just carried on with those. You didn't add to it
until you felt like prepared. I don't remember how many I added, but like it was simple things
like increasing your intake of water and 15 minutes of scripture reading or whatever.
And again, if I said 15 minutes of scripture reading and you're like, I'm calling it a
verse and the verse is the thing I'm going to carry on to you today. It's great to have
a list of pickings that you don't really have to think about. Like all of these things could
bring me closer to Jesus Christ and this is the one that's going to do it the most for
me right now.
That is literally the way I use a list. I look at it sort of like suggestions on things
because that part of the job is already done for me. All the thinking and all that, the
sitting down and the gathering and the inspiration that comes in that. So I just love that it's
like already, it's already matter that's organized, right? And then I just come to it and I'm
like, heavenly father, like what would be great today? And then things will kind of
be highlighted in my mind. I'm like, that's it. And I mean, part of that is because I
really, really value variety. I love it. I don't do the same things every day. That's
just my personality.
The end goal is that you're getting closer to Jesus Christ at the end of the day, but
the way to get there, the building piece that's going to take to do it, it can look very different.
Totally for every person. And that's just how mine is. But yeah, I look at it more at
suggestions rather than do every one of these all day. I mean, every day, that would just
be too much.
If you didn't get all the check marks, then you failed. Not the case.
Not the case at all.
So before I let you take the closing, you'll close for us hopefully. Just something that
came to my mind as I was listening to this talk, something I'm, I think my husband did
his like, High Council talk on the two great commandments or whatever, and the imbalance.
So like the Oaks one is the one that he was going around on. So we've had a lot of discussion
about it. And it wasn't until I was preparing this one that I really locked in on where
I personally need to focus and work on. And so I'm willing to share that with you. Maybe
it's something that you might consider too, as you're thinking about building, about balancing
these two great commandments and where we're at on that. I guess my thoughts on it center
around the part where you're talking about the imbalances of it, what it might look like,
that I don't know how you said it, but it's just like, you're so focused on your love
of God that you ignore like love for your neighbors. Totally. This is the reflection
that I came to for myself. It's that I don't want to stray from the commandments that I
know to be true and I can live my life and demonstrate my belief in those commandments
by the actions that I make. But is it really demonstrating my belief in those if I use
my, I don't want to say obedience to those commandments, but I'm going to, I think that's
the best way to explain it. The way that I practice those commandments to look out at
everybody else and judge them for the way that they're living or not living. It really
dampers what I'm able to do on the other great commandment. And so I thought, well, what
is this teaching me? And I guess what it is, is I have the best chance of demonstrating
my love of God in my home and to my children. And they're definitely like within my circle
of care. And then I have a friend group. I have a church group. Like I can have these
personal conversations about what it looks like to be obedient to a commandment of God
and then pair that with knowing their personal story, like where they maybe aren't like living
with the gospel of Jesus Christ, but I can still love them. This is sounding way too
big, but what I'm trying to get at is if I'm sitting in broadcasting how great I am for
following this commandment and that all of you others aren't just doing all of these
good things, I'm really going outside of my scope of reach. Because if you say something,
people are like, well, you're judgmental and you're doing this thing. I think, well, those
are never a conversation that I'm trying to have, nor do I want to have. And so if
I'm like trying to be inflammatory in demonstrating my love of God, if it gets to that point,
then I've really done a disservice. What I'm better doing is in these tight conversations
that I have, these close conversations, especially with family, loved ones and close ones, I
can have this conversation where I can explain clearly without words being taken out of context
or my words being misconstrued as hate that I can say, this is something that I believe
in. And it may not pair with my religion. I can totally love you even though you definitely
make a different lifestyle choice and you're doing your own things. It's more of these
intimate relationships, these conversations that I can have with close people.
Yeah, that totally makes sense. And as far as the two towers go or the two great commandments,
I think also part of what you're saying as well, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that
when we have the intention to live both of them equally, meaning to build beautiful towers
for both that are strong, that are straight and that are doing their job, I feel like
that it just...
It allows more room for Jesus to link the two. That's what I'm trying to...
And His grace.
Yeah. I'm not great at it, but I can see the need for me to just continue to be bold in
my beliefs and my love of God, but also equally love those around me who aren't demonstrating
that same level of commitment maybe to the gospel of Jesus Christ. It's not that hard
to love people, especially if they're doing different things. But in this day and age,
it's like we're told you can't have that opinion. You can't say that if it comes right out of
the mouth of the prophet, we're condemned for repeating the words that He's saying.
I think that the problem is that if I'm making that in this really broad... Like a podcast.
No, just kidding. I don't really think this counts, but like a Facebook post, I'm reaching
people that I can't have this one-on-one conversation and explain that I have love in my heart for
these things that I have at the same time that I love you, even if you're making alternate
decisions. It's just making me think, how do I apply that? And I think the tighter,
the more intimate those conversations can be, the better.
I love that, Abby. That's so good.
You, I'd love you to share your final thoughts. What do you want to say in closing, Amy?
You know, I mean, we've just talked a lot about this and what our intent is and trying
to build these two towers and make them be strong and beautiful and to reach to God.
One sentence that Elder Stevenson used was one of my favorites, bridges take us places
we otherwise would not be able to go. So that was the quote. In remembering that Jesus is
the bridge from tower one to tower two, I had my testimony that Jesus takes us places
we would not be able to go. His gospel is not a gospel of overwhelm. It is a gospel
of peace. And as we bring his atonement into our lives, which is what we were just talking
about, bringing his atonement, number one, it takes away our overwhelm and it replaces
our overwhelm with his peace. But it also helps us bridge the gap with maybe those we
don't see eye to eye with and we ask him to be our mediator. I think that's another way
we can look at him in the bridge is that he's also our mediator and that he will help us
to live both of those commandments.
If we're relying on him for advice and trying to make these course corrections and trying
to turn that napkin into a nice working blueprint, we ask him like what modifications can I make,
what changes can I make? And he's definitely able to course correct us in that.
Good eraser.
Well, I thought it was cool because we're all about, it's Heavenly Father's way to
spiritually create things and then to physically create things. We see that in temple instruction
and I see it like I'm way more successful in my life. If I kind of have a plan for something
and I kind of put that out, then it doesn't really solidify. The plan doesn't really solidify
until I've kind of made some steps and actions and I'm like, okay, this is the way that we're
going. And so then we're going to lock down on that plan and then turn it into a blueprint
that we really function and build with.
Love that.
Yeah. But the way that I read this talk, that little piece of it, I was like, it's because
of the Atonement of Jesus Christ. If you're building an actual bridge and you're doing
concrete, they're probably sampling that and if it's not good, they're going to scratch
it. They're going to like dose that thing down and then restart it. But in reference
to building a bridge of the two great commandments, if we're kind of doing our best at it, but
it's not great, this is where the Lord, where Jesus Christ, his Atonement makes that like
the best concrete that you possibly could have used.
He doesn't ask us like scratch that tower and then start it over again. He just kind
of helps us get back to balance, back to two equal, equally strong, well-built towers.
I like it.
Good stuff.
Okay. That was good. That's a great talk. One that's going to take some thought into.
Revisit.
Yeah. Take a revisit and do it with a prayer in your heart that you can say, is there something
that I can learn from here and is there some modifications that I need to make? I certainly
see plenty of room for growth for myself and I'm going to get started on that. But I appreciate
you for bringing it up today. We will see you on the next one. Thanks guys.
Thanks so much. Catch you next time.