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Welcome to Closer to Christ, the General Conference, where two friends share our own approach to

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studying General Conference. It is so good to have you with us today. Welcome. Thanks.

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We're happy to have you guys. We get to talk about the talk titled, Bridging the Two Great

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Commandments, and it's done by Elder Gary E. Stevenson, Quorum of the Twelve Apostles.

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His summary is that he's going to talk about the two towers on either side of a bridge.

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He does a lot of world travel and he's pretty fond of bridges. He kind of makes it a point

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to see them, recognize them, document their beauty. And he did share some pictures. I

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was like, wow, he's seen some neat bridges. So he's talked about how these two towers

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together shoulder the load of the sweeping main suspension cables and the vertical suspender

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cables which cradle the roadway below. And the extraordinary stabilizing capacity or

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power of the tower is the magic behind the engineering of the bridge. So he asks us to

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look at these two towers with him through a gospel lens. And so we'll ask the question,

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what are the two great laws or towers if we're looking at them as this bridge analogy? So

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he says that the first commandment, first tower is, thou shalt love the Lord thy God

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with all thy heart, with all thy soul, with all thy mind. And then second commandment,

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second tower, thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

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Do you feel like this is coming up a lot, these two great commandments?

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Yes. He talked about how President Oaks talked about it. Maybe it was two conferences ago

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he referenced that talk. Yes. I think we get into that a little bit later about just getting

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more in depth of it. But yes, we have talked about it more and also seen really good, I

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feel, really good ways that we can implement that because sometimes it feels, I don't know,

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the word is nebulous or we're not sure. It feels like an abstract thing. And this is

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showing us how to

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It feels like an abstract thing. And I think each of us have to apply this specifically

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in our lives, the way that we're living our lives, we have to like look at that for ourselves

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and decide how we're going to apply this. But tying it to an analogy of a well structured,

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well planned, engineered bridge and realizing that it takes both of those components in

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an equal fashion to really carry the weight that this life is going to bring our way means

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that it's come up. It means that too often they're seeing people putting too much emphasis

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in one versus the other. Yes, absolutely. And what imbalance that's going to cause.

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So I guess that's kind of jumping to the end of the talk. But in talking with Amy, we both

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agree this talk is heavy. And it's definitely one that's going to cause us to each need

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to reflect on where we are in the bridge building process, where we can make modifications to

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strengthen ourselves. Not looking at like, Oh, look how you're applying that. Look at

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your one tower is good. Your other one's a little soft or whatever. It's like, this is

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your own bridge. How your own bridge is being built.

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Okay. So first great commandment to love God. What are some ways that we love God, Amy?

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I love that he shared that he just said Jesus taught if you love me, keep my commandments.

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That's pretty basic, right? And then he has different ideas. We can love Heavenly Father

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and Jesus Christ. So both of them together. When we do this, that leads to prayer, scripture

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study and temple worship. We show love for the Heavenly Father and His Son through paying

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and tithing, keeping the Sabbath day holy, living a virtuous and chaste life and being obedient.

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And I really like this part again, he makes it very simple. Loving the Lord is often measured

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in small daily deeds, footsteps on the covenant path. We've heard that before too. And then

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I like it too. He talked about youth. So for youth, what would it look like? It might look

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like using social media to build up rather than tear down, leaving the party movie or

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activity where standards might be challenged and then showing reverence for sacred things.

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Those are so good. I want to share those and just put them on a piece of paper for my kids.

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I think I'm going to put up on the fridge just to remind them that that's another way

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that we show love for Heavenly Father is having reverence for sacred things, which are His

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things. And it can become ours as we demonstrate through our intention. Love that. What talk

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was it we were talking about? Like, how does he know the intent of my heart by the actions

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that I take? So I want to be closer to Him and show my love for Him. Then I'm going

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to show love for the things that He has respect for. The suggestions that He's given me on

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the standards that bring me closer to Him. So what are some ways that we can show love

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to our neighbor?

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Christ-like deeds of kindness and service. And some ideas include let go of grudges.

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Love that. Forgive enemies. We've heard that multiple times in our prophet. Welcome and

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minister to your neighbors and assist the elderly. And then President Nelson teaches

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living that second. This is so good. Living that second great commandment is the key to

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becoming a true disciple of Jesus Christ. So again, it's like, I feel like this talk

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is just an invitation. At least it was for me, you know, how some talks hit different

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people differently, right? For me, it truly felt like an invitation. Amy, take a look

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at this and really dissect it and see where you are on this path. Like, what does it mean

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to you? If our prophet is literally saying that living the second commandment is the

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key to becoming a true disciple of Christ, that's a big deal. So I want to see how that

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looks in my life a little bit more.

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Do you know how bridge construction goes? Do they build one entire tower and then build

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the other?

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I would guess because you have to have something to suspend the cables and all the things to,

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right? You have to have the anchor point. So first it's the bottom part, the foundation,

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then they do the tower and the other tower, and then they start securing those big cables

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to it and all that.

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But we agree that both towers have to be like equally up. Whichever one comes first or second,

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that's not really what I'm trying to visualize. What I guess I'm saying is that if we put

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so much focus on one tower versus the other, we don't really have the components that we

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need to bridge the gap that we're talking about.

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And we're still going to get into that in a second. It's so true.

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If we're talking about this bridge analogy, we've got the two towers as the first and

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second great commandments. What is bridging that gap?

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I love this so much because you know how one of the primary answers is like, I don't know

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if you've heard this before, but there was a primary teacher and she started describing

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a squirrel. And she said, who am I talking about? And one of the kids raised his hand

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and said, I know the answer is Jesus, but it sounds like a squirrel to me.

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The point of that is this again, like of course.

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You have to tell me because this is too funny.

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Well, because the answer is always Jesus. That was the whole point, right? So she wanted

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to give a different answer, but she's like, I know it's Jesus because Jesus is always

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the answer.

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That's funny.

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I know.

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This has nothing to do with anything, but since we're talking about that, one time

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I was leading the music and we were doing Pictionary and the little girl couldn't read,

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so I had to give her the prompt. And I said, okay, so I said, draw a picture of Jesus.

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She starts drawing lots of these triangles with circles on it, triangle, triangle, triangle.

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And so then I'm like, at a loss. I know I told her to draw a picture of Jesus. And she

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was a visitor. No. And so I was like, okay, honey, nobody could guess. Nobody guessed

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what your picture was. So you win. Tell us what you've drawn. And she said, it's a picture

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of Jesus. And that's when I realized I talk really poorly. I need to enunciate, but I

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am so proud of myself. I kept my giggles together. And so this was like on a huge sheet of paper.

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I don't even know what size this is, but it's like a poster board size, but like fluid paper.

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I had to save it. And then I had to grab Karen from our ward because it was her granddaughter

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visiting and I had to like show her the story. And we both had, like, it felt like a reader's

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digest story. It was so funny. But only like a church crowd would appreciate it. So I am

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so glad I've got this audience that I can tell that story to. When you tell a kid to

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draw a picture of Jesus, don't make it sound like cheeses. Okay, back to the story.

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But yes, like even in this bridge principle, Abby, like Jesus bridges the gap. He's the

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reason a bridge is not just two impressive towers. In Elder Stevenson's words, Jesus

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bridges our heavenly, I love this, upward gaze to the love of the Lord with our earthly

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outward gaze to love our fellow men and women. So again, Jesus is the thing that makes the

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bridge. I mean, that's the part we actually drive on. He's the reason we get places,

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right?

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He's totally the reason we get places. And from the get go, as you were talking, I'm

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like, not going to make this so complicated. But you know, you might say, I'm putting

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effort into the first great commandment. I'm going to learn more about loving the Lord

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by God. So doing little things that make me love him, and then it naturally makes me want

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to show my love to his other children and do things for them. So I'm like simultaneously

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building up those towers.

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Because it's balanced, right?

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It can be balanced. I love that.

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That it's not like I think I have to put all of my effort into this one thing. And once

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I have that locked down, then I can do the other.

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He really is a great visual. Like he was a masterful teacher in this. I love it.

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We have a few bridges around here. Not like they're massive and grand, but still connects

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they to be.

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And they do a lot of rivers that we go over. So it's definitely something I can think on

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even here in my little local place. So as a bridge is constructed, balance is key, right?

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I think we've agreed on that. It's a brilliant engineering plan. And so Elder Stevenson touches

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on the two ways on, well, maybe there are more, but I can think of two from his talk

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that he talked about how we can become unbalanced in this process. So I think we should spend

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a little time on that.

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As I'm thinking of how I can do a balanced approach to building it, what does it look

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like when it's an unbalanced approach?

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There you go. That's a good place to start. Again, he referenced this from President Oaks

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talk. So he says, love of God. Some are so focused on keeping the commandments that they

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show little tolerance of those they see as less righteous. Some find it difficult to

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love those who are choosing to live their lives outside of the covenant or even away

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from any religious participation. And here I think it's just a really good practice

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to ask ourselves, heavily father, show me how I'm imbalanced in this way. How could

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I improve? And maybe you're doing great in this and that's not the case, but more likely

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than not, he would help you to just see in your everyday life, oh, maybe that's a little

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bit imbalanced when I said that or thought that or whatever, and just go about your day.

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This analogy though, don't you see it as like, we're all building our own bridge. Oh, yeah.

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You have plenty of time to stop and look at somebody else's bridge and critique how poorly

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they're building it. What's happening to your own bridge while you have your eyes focused

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on somebody else's bridge?

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Right. Right. And is it crumbling? And the second one is love our neighbor. There are

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those who emphasize the importance of loving others without acknowledgement that we are

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all accountable to God. Some refuse entirely the notion that there is such a thing as absolute

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truth or right and wrong and believe that the only thing required of us is complete

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tolerance and acceptance of the choices of others. I really like this because as soon

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as you have something that's so contrasting, the first one with the other one, it helps

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us to see clearly where we want to be in the middle. Do you know what I mean? Because it's

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so balanced, not in the middle of the line, firm on both of those commandments, but balanced.

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And balance is going to look different every day and for every person, right? Because you

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don't have all the time in the world to work on all of these. But having a balanced approach

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and being prayerful, like we talked in the last one with Elder Godoy, pray along the

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way. He's going to help you make little tweaks and just adjustments along the way.

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So either of these things being imbalanced could cause your spiritual bridge to tip over

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or fall even. So it's probably moments of self-reflection. You're going to ask yourself,

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where do I fall in the scheme of this bridge building activity? How do we build our own

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bridge of faith and devotion erecting tall bridge towers of both loving God and loving

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our neighbor?

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You know, sometimes when you think about it, like it could feel overwhelming, right? Like

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there's so much. Sometimes it just feels like there's a lot, you don't know where to start.

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And Elder Stevenson reminds us to just start. I love the way he said it. I'm just going

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to say it in a few short words. But our first attempts at building this bridge might look

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like a sketch on a napkin. And then over time, with prayerful and thoughtful planning, rough

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ideas are refined, new actions become habits, and those early drafts become polished blueprints.

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So it's certainly with time and with effort, right? It doesn't just happen. You know,

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so thinking of this feeling of overwhelm and just quote all the things that need to be

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done. On Sunday this week, a sister asked how to prepare for the second coming of Christ.

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And at first as a group, you know, together we counseled as a Relief Society, we listed

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all the basics like prayer, scripture, study and making and keeping covenants. And soon

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we had a really long list. There were lots of things. And one sister just said out loud,

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okay, that's enough. That's too many already. I'm totally overwhelmed. And I heard her,

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like I understood what she was saying. And I was just thinking in my mind, like making

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a list is helpful and it can be helpful because it takes something in your head and puts it

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right there in front of you. But this is what I wanted to share. While it's imperative

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to know what needs to be done and who we need to become as a people, God tells each one

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of us over and over, fear not. And this could also be said, do not feel overwhelmed. Looking

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at this through very basic principles of a bridge, if we're going to apply this to the

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bridge principle that we just learned, a balanced approach is necessary. I agree with you. This

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list making is helpful, but like clear back to the very, very first episode of this podcast,

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we talked about, you know, suggestions would be presented in this podcast format. And if

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it felt right, you pick it up. Exactly. And if it doesn't, you shelf it. Ideally, you

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never really throw things away because at another point in your life, you know that

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that thing exists that you can pick up if circumstances change. Good point. And that's

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the thing that you want to do at that point. I love that, Abby. So yeah, it can be helpful,

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but it's not like do all these things right now every day. Right. Right. I've learned

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a lot of things from these conference talks and some I'm like, that's a great suggestion,

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but I don't find myself doing all of the things from all of the talks, all of the action items.

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I feel the same. I'm focusing on the ones that matter the deepest to me right now in

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the process of working on that. I think on the perimeter, those other things are being

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developed. I agree, Abby. That's how that works with this first and second great commandment.

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Love that. As you're working to show God your love, then it naturally evolves into

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demonstrating that through, you know, your intent through actions. And a lot of times

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those actions are not necessarily for yourself, they're for somebody else. And in that way,

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equal time that you're spending in loving God, you're also loving his other children

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as a disciple. That's so great. And I mean, sometimes it's not necessarily equal time,

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but like it balances out in it's the same mountain. Yes, it's the same mountain. I love

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that. Like which one do I work on first? You work on them simultaneously. Yes. That's always

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without overwhelm. Right. That's the other thing too, is I love that you vocalize the

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way that you know, verbalize the way that you approach this. And I love too that you're

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not that you're saying with your words, I don't do all of them every single day. And

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at the same time, I'm not a failure. Like I'm succeeding in this. Because a lot of times

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I feel like people think like, especially this woman who cried out, okay, that's enough.

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In my mind, I thought, oh, I wonder if she feels like she has to do every single one

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of these on this list, quote, or she's a failure. And that is not the way I look at it at all.

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And I really believe that that's not the way that the Heavenly Father looks at it. It's

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like choose your own adventure. Which one's going to bring you the most joy today? Yes.

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Bring you closer to Jesus today. Exactly. And if tomorrow that looks different, great.

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So, I love that we're really talking about these basic things that we can do on a daily

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or weekly basis. Like the temple, the temple is so great. Can we attend the temple daily?

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That would be awesome. But if we can't, are we failures? No. But if you just look at temple

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attendance and say, attend as often as your circumstances allow. If you're busy with six

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kids at home, and one of them you're responsible for feeding, your temple attendance is not

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going to look like mine. I can leave my kids and be like, see you in a couple hours. Right.

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It's not the season for that. Right. So, let's make the connection between how we talked

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about that napkin sketch principle. Like more firm, like into that firm blueprint. So, these

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are just some thoughts that I had as far as looking at that. Like, how does that apply

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when we're talking about serving others and family history and collecting food storage,

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all the things, right? So, the first one would be like to make, number one, make a rough

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blueprint. So, quote, I'd like to beef up my food storage or great grandma and grandpa's

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anniversary is coming up. I want to have a family dinner and share stories about them.

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That's pretty basic, right? Pretty simple. Two, rotate. Needful, just like Abby was saying,

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you take the things that work for you right now. So, needful things like family history,

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serving your neighbor and building up a food storage or hygiene supplies. These things

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can be done frequently, not all of them, every day. You just rotate, right? Whatever comes

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to you. And then number three, I think this is the biggest thing. Well, it's like, well,

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how do you know what to rotate? Ask, Heavenly Father, what is needful today? And then you

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do that one thing. I find myself in seasons, just like we talked about with the woman who

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has six kids and one of them she's, you know, feeding or that relies on her solely for food.

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I find myself in seasons where I focus more on family history and others where I focus

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more on building my food storage and leaning to like medicines and supplies and things

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like that. I still find that this is in balance. In balance, not M with an M. And then four,

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this is for those with a tight schedule. This is just an idea. Try to free up 15 minutes

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and ask God to fill that time slot in your schedule with what is needed that day. Maybe

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you could do this daily, maybe once a week, monthly, as often as your circumstances allow.

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This is where that list would come in handy because if it was like at the beginning of

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this kind of monthly calendar that you have available to you, you could set a goal that

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you were going to do scripture study for 15 minutes a day or what's a cool thing. We've

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done a challenge where I gave like a list of things they could pick up. Like we did

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a compounding challenge. It was like the first week you did one thing and I think I built

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it to six or eight weeks and then you added something of your picking the second week

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and still kept the first week thing. And it was totally variable. Like if you felt maxed

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out at the two or three items, like you just carried on with those. You didn't add to it

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until you felt like prepared. I don't remember how many I added, but like it was simple things

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like increasing your intake of water and 15 minutes of scripture reading or whatever.

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And again, if I said 15 minutes of scripture reading and you're like, I'm calling it a

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verse and the verse is the thing I'm going to carry on to you today. It's great to have

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a list of pickings that you don't really have to think about. Like all of these things could

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bring me closer to Jesus Christ and this is the one that's going to do it the most for

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me right now.

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That is literally the way I use a list. I look at it sort of like suggestions on things

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because that part of the job is already done for me. All the thinking and all that, the

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sitting down and the gathering and the inspiration that comes in that. So I just love that it's

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like already, it's already matter that's organized, right? And then I just come to it and I'm

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like, heavenly father, like what would be great today? And then things will kind of

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be highlighted in my mind. I'm like, that's it. And I mean, part of that is because I

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really, really value variety. I love it. I don't do the same things every day. That's

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just my personality.

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The end goal is that you're getting closer to Jesus Christ at the end of the day, but

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the way to get there, the building piece that's going to take to do it, it can look very different.

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Totally for every person. And that's just how mine is. But yeah, I look at it more at

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suggestions rather than do every one of these all day. I mean, every day, that would just

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be too much.

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If you didn't get all the check marks, then you failed. Not the case.

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Not the case at all.

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So before I let you take the closing, you'll close for us hopefully. Just something that

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came to my mind as I was listening to this talk, something I'm, I think my husband did

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his like, High Council talk on the two great commandments or whatever, and the imbalance.

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So like the Oaks one is the one that he was going around on. So we've had a lot of discussion

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about it. And it wasn't until I was preparing this one that I really locked in on where

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I personally need to focus and work on. And so I'm willing to share that with you. Maybe

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it's something that you might consider too, as you're thinking about building, about balancing

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these two great commandments and where we're at on that. I guess my thoughts on it center

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around the part where you're talking about the imbalances of it, what it might look like,

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that I don't know how you said it, but it's just like, you're so focused on your love

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of God that you ignore like love for your neighbors. Totally. This is the reflection

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that I came to for myself. It's that I don't want to stray from the commandments that I

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know to be true and I can live my life and demonstrate my belief in those commandments

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by the actions that I make. But is it really demonstrating my belief in those if I use

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my, I don't want to say obedience to those commandments, but I'm going to, I think that's

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the best way to explain it. The way that I practice those commandments to look out at

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everybody else and judge them for the way that they're living or not living. It really

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dampers what I'm able to do on the other great commandment. And so I thought, well, what

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is this teaching me? And I guess what it is, is I have the best chance of demonstrating

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my love of God in my home and to my children. And they're definitely like within my circle

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of care. And then I have a friend group. I have a church group. Like I can have these

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personal conversations about what it looks like to be obedient to a commandment of God

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and then pair that with knowing their personal story, like where they maybe aren't like living

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with the gospel of Jesus Christ, but I can still love them. This is sounding way too

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big, but what I'm trying to get at is if I'm sitting in broadcasting how great I am for

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following this commandment and that all of you others aren't just doing all of these

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good things, I'm really going outside of my scope of reach. Because if you say something,

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people are like, well, you're judgmental and you're doing this thing. I think, well, those

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are never a conversation that I'm trying to have, nor do I want to have. And so if

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I'm like trying to be inflammatory in demonstrating my love of God, if it gets to that point,

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then I've really done a disservice. What I'm better doing is in these tight conversations

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that I have, these close conversations, especially with family, loved ones and close ones, I

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can have this conversation where I can explain clearly without words being taken out of context

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or my words being misconstrued as hate that I can say, this is something that I believe

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in. And it may not pair with my religion. I can totally love you even though you definitely

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make a different lifestyle choice and you're doing your own things. It's more of these

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intimate relationships, these conversations that I can have with close people.

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Yeah, that totally makes sense. And as far as the two towers go or the two great commandments,

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I think also part of what you're saying as well, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that

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when we have the intention to live both of them equally, meaning to build beautiful towers

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for both that are strong, that are straight and that are doing their job, I feel like

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that it just...

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It allows more room for Jesus to link the two. That's what I'm trying to...

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And His grace.

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Yeah. I'm not great at it, but I can see the need for me to just continue to be bold in

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my beliefs and my love of God, but also equally love those around me who aren't demonstrating

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that same level of commitment maybe to the gospel of Jesus Christ. It's not that hard

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to love people, especially if they're doing different things. But in this day and age,

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it's like we're told you can't have that opinion. You can't say that if it comes right out of

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the mouth of the prophet, we're condemned for repeating the words that He's saying.

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I think that the problem is that if I'm making that in this really broad... Like a podcast.

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No, just kidding. I don't really think this counts, but like a Facebook post, I'm reaching

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people that I can't have this one-on-one conversation and explain that I have love in my heart for

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these things that I have at the same time that I love you, even if you're making alternate

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decisions. It's just making me think, how do I apply that? And I think the tighter,

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the more intimate those conversations can be, the better.

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I love that, Abby. That's so good.

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You, I'd love you to share your final thoughts. What do you want to say in closing, Amy?

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You know, I mean, we've just talked a lot about this and what our intent is and trying

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to build these two towers and make them be strong and beautiful and to reach to God.

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One sentence that Elder Stevenson used was one of my favorites, bridges take us places

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we otherwise would not be able to go. So that was the quote. In remembering that Jesus is

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the bridge from tower one to tower two, I had my testimony that Jesus takes us places

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we would not be able to go. His gospel is not a gospel of overwhelm. It is a gospel

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of peace. And as we bring his atonement into our lives, which is what we were just talking

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about, bringing his atonement, number one, it takes away our overwhelm and it replaces

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our overwhelm with his peace. But it also helps us bridge the gap with maybe those we

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don't see eye to eye with and we ask him to be our mediator. I think that's another way

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we can look at him in the bridge is that he's also our mediator and that he will help us

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to live both of those commandments.

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If we're relying on him for advice and trying to make these course corrections and trying

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to turn that napkin into a nice working blueprint, we ask him like what modifications can I make,

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what changes can I make? And he's definitely able to course correct us in that.

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Good eraser.

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Well, I thought it was cool because we're all about, it's Heavenly Father's way to

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spiritually create things and then to physically create things. We see that in temple instruction

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and I see it like I'm way more successful in my life. If I kind of have a plan for something

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and I kind of put that out, then it doesn't really solidify. The plan doesn't really solidify

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until I've kind of made some steps and actions and I'm like, okay, this is the way that we're

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going. And so then we're going to lock down on that plan and then turn it into a blueprint

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that we really function and build with.

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Love that.

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Yeah. But the way that I read this talk, that little piece of it, I was like, it's because

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of the Atonement of Jesus Christ. If you're building an actual bridge and you're doing

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concrete, they're probably sampling that and if it's not good, they're going to scratch

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it. They're going to like dose that thing down and then restart it. But in reference

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to building a bridge of the two great commandments, if we're kind of doing our best at it, but

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it's not great, this is where the Lord, where Jesus Christ, his Atonement makes that like

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the best concrete that you possibly could have used.

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He doesn't ask us like scratch that tower and then start it over again. He just kind

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of helps us get back to balance, back to two equal, equally strong, well-built towers.

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I like it.

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Good stuff.

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Okay. That was good. That's a great talk. One that's going to take some thought into.

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Revisit.

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Yeah. Take a revisit and do it with a prayer in your heart that you can say, is there something

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that I can learn from here and is there some modifications that I need to make? I certainly

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see plenty of room for growth for myself and I'm going to get started on that. But I appreciate

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you for bringing it up today. We will see you on the next one. Thanks guys.

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Thanks so much. Catch you next time.