Welcome to Closer to Christ through Conference, where two friends share our own approach to
General Conference.
Hey, Abby, how are you?
I'm good.
Hey, Amy.
Hi, guys.
We're so glad you're here today with us.
We are talking about covenants and responsibilities, and this is by President Dallin H. Oaks.
If you remember from his last talk, it was sort of the same way that he started out.
One of the first things he says is, how does your church differ from others?
This is the same way he talked about this one as well.
Probably in his study, he delved into the one and it was enough to more than fill that
conference talk.
He's like, there's still more here.
Yeah, like a theory.
I won't be surprised if the next conference we get like part three.
Kind of like when Elder Holland did that, remember with his testimony of the Book of
Mormon.
This was like, I don't know, 10 years ago, maybe more.
Anyways, it felt like it was a series of his absolute testimony.
It was just like, I couldn't wait for the next one.
So I sort of felt the same way.
I was like, good, he's giving us more on law.
I thought he was so straightforward on that conference that you're talking about.
I was just like, man, if I could just articulate that, that's the feelings of my heart, but
he did it so well.
And then this one, no different.
It was just as good.
I don't know if the talk, I don't know if starting out with a question of how does our
church differ from others, if he's helping us make a case to when we get confronted with
that question out in public, trying to think of the circumstances where he's using that
in or if we're just really, this could even just be a question that's super serious for
any member of this church to reflect upon like, why am I in this church?
Why this church above any other church or instead of any other church?
What makes it unique?
And I thought that was an interesting question because I might feel more success in missionary
work when somebody asks a question, like, don't you feel like we were encouraged to
try to find common ground?
I totally do.
It is good to have common ground.
There's so much common ground.
What do we have in common?
We believe in Jesus Christ.
Like that's a hard sell for some people.
They don't believe that we believe in Jesus Christ.
And I'm like, pretty sure we do.
It's just funny.
I know him.
I do know him.
And I'm like, I'm hoping that as a friend, we have this friendship that you're seeing
that I'm reflecting him in my life and the things that I'm doing, like, it should come
as a shock to you if you're a pastor or a preacher is trying to tell you that we like
worship Satan and that we don't, you know, we're not here for Jesus Christ.
So we're working the narrative on like helping people understand that even just simply the
name of the church, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint being more prevalent in
the name of the church so that we can understand that we have the common ground.
And then we can say, you know, we believe in baptism.
We believe in baptism.
Now what's different then?
You could sit and have a conversation on, well, our baptism is by immersion.
We, you know, like at age eight or older and rather than the baby or whatever, all of those
nuances aren't as important as like, I can agree with a friend, like they believe in
baptism.
What does that baptism mean to you?
It means that I'm in a covenant relationship with Jesus Christ.
And I think that's beautiful and we can agree on that.
I guess what I loved is that Elder Oaks explained for us, that's the same truth.
When we talk about what is unique to our church, it's about the role of covenants in our worship
and how it can or should dictate the way that we practice, the way that we act in our lives,
the decisions that we're going to make daily.
Like I guess the prophets words are the easiest to say, how we're thinking celestial because
of those covenants that we're going to make.
I mean, if we really want to, I don't know how well this would come up, but the point
is the covenants that we're making, we do know and believe that we are doing that with
the proper priesthood authority.
So I can totally, when I have friends of other faiths and they're entering the waters of
baptism in whatever form that looks like, I think it's a beautiful thing because I can
definitely see they've accepted Jesus as their savior and it does make them choose to live
their lives a little bit differently.
They're usually giving up something hard and they're on a different path, they're doing
something.
So I can clearly see that there's something special there, but I do know that it is important
to have priesthood authority in those things that we're doing.
So I mean, it's just the same as seeing a civil wedding.
It's beautiful when two people want a covenant together.
And I still cry.
I still think it's a beautiful thing.
Absolutely.
They're making a promise to each other and they have symbols of that covenant that they're
making with each other.
That's a beautiful thing.
It's like a great acknowledgement to the heavens, but also can contrast this with what I know
about temple marriages and ceilings.
And it's just another additional layer of blessings that can be added to it.
So I totally agree on that.
I don't think we have to be like super controversial or like be trying to stir the pot or make
it awkward when I say what's different about our church.
We would just absolutely be able to stand on that, that we are people that believe in
covenants in our worship.
I totally agree.
Okay.
So when I'm looking at this talk, Abby, what would, he said a lot of things about what
is a covenant.
What's something that really stood out to you?
Like what were some of your favorite things?
In his very calm way, I loved how he's pointing out the fact that like a small minority of
people, they get really angry and they insist that people should be free to do whatever
they want with no restrictions that should limit them from being able to do anything
else that they want.
They don't want to give up any, what they're saying, freedom.
If they don't want to give up any freedoms to engage in this covenant relationship.
And he put it very clearly and simply by saying that's the way modern societies work.
There's a lot of people that enter into covenants, relationships, having to give up something
for the greater good.
Right.
If you live in community.
Yeah, if you're going to live in a structured functioning community.
So like a judge, a military personnel, medical personnel, firefighters, like can I go throw
on like a fireproof suit and like just run into a burning house?
I love the fact that anybody that's doing that profession, they've had some training
that if I have a fire and I'm calling that number that the people that are going to be
coming, they have the skills and expertise.
And what did it take to get that equipment to be that person that's on the other end
of that phone call?
You, you know, they have to give up something.
They have to give up their ability to just be anywhere.
If you have to, if you're working, you have to be on call, you have to be at the firehouse.
You don't just get to be out and about and then, you know, partying or whatever.
And then all of a sudden a fire comes up and you're hopping in a fire truck driving, you
know.
Or you say, I'll be there tomorrow because I hung over or whatever it is.
Right.
Exactly.
Medical professionals, you can certainly have whatever side things you want in your life.
But if you're on call or you're on duty, like, yes, you're not, you, you have to give up
some family time.
You have to give up some of the activities that you would choose to want to do.
Right.
So that just made perfect sense to me because I know that as he's thinking of it, he's thinking
people that are just saying, why aren't your temples open to everybody?
Why can't I just walk in there, just present myself and just be in the temple and do anything
that I want to do and still get to get to participate in the temple stuff.
It's because that's not the normal order of things.
Like really any, any covenant relationship is going to require something from both, both
parties.
Right.
Some agreement and understanding, right.
A set of standards.
And so I loved it.
He talked about those particular professions, making a commitment, often formalizing by
oath or covenant.
Usually it comes with distinctive clothing, sometimes a name tag.
And that signifies that there's a covenant in that relationship.
The wearer is under covenant.
It's true.
Like when I was little, this was back in the eighties, but it was like, if you're lost
in a group, look for a police officer's badge and uniform.
Do you know what I mean?
Absolutely.
So for us that told us that they were a trustworthy person.
He or she worked for, warrant them with just a general level of trust from us.
That's so good.
And that's why we have clothing, the name tags and that it signifies the wearer is under
covenant.
So great in a wedding covenant, the rings help give notice to the observer reminding
them of their covenant responsibilities.
When you don't wear your ring, it's doesn't stand as a reminder.
Amy and I are both looking at our ring fingers.
Mine's off for a few different reasons.
I took mine off when I started making dinner.
Oh, that's good.
Years ago back on, I lost a diamond in mine.
And so I put my bigger ring away until I figure out what I'm doing with that.
And then I had an injury on my arm and I was losing like a function of my left arm and
swelling and having nervous function, whatever.
So I safely handed mine to my husband.
But I look at my empty hand all the time and think, man, I need that ring on.
So either way wearing or not, it does help remind me that, well, I mean, that defeats
the purpose of this talk.
We should be wearing it because it should stand as a reminder.
But the absence of it when I'm so used to having it on also does tend to remind me of
that wedding ring.
So I love that he builds us up with this.
This is like more of a secular thinking of covenants.
And for us, we're just like, yes, that's totally logical.
And then he pops into the idea that religious covenants have particular application in being
foundational in the way an individual lives their lives.
So why should it be different as we're thinking the responsibilities that we have in our just
kind of everyday lives versus the religious aspect of our lives?
And I think there should be no difference.
I love that because it makes me think of the Abrahamic covenant.
I was listening to something this morning, I think it was in our reading for Come Follow
Me this week, talking about how maybe it was a different talk, I'm not sure, but the Abrahamic
covenant, how it was fundamental and also that it was very, yeah, I guess fundamental
is the best word to say it.
It wasn't the end of it.
It was to prepare.
It was to help lead them to the people in the Old Testament to what was next.
And the word Old Testament means Old Covenant.
That's what they say.
I love that.
Like the word search, the New Testament meaning the New Covenant.
And it doesn't...
How did I ever miss that, Abby?
No, you haven't.
You just heard that.
That's so great.
Maybe I'm remembering it again, but it's awesome.
Yeah, you'll remember it because I'm like, you've definitely heard it.
The point is that in each dispensation, which is a period of time, the little covenant is
laid out, and so the earliest scripture we have, we consider that the old form of the
covenant, it doesn't really change, but as people are ready for more, they get more.
That's why the New Covenant comes about.
And then in our day and age, we have the New and Everlasting Covenant, which was more like
what the Doctrine and Covenants was named, like something to allude to that.
But what you'll see in each book of scripture is a reaffirmation of this covenant relationship
that he wants to establish with us, and people live it fully or to degrees, and then something
happens over time, and we take the pieces and parts that we want, and then we slip away
from that closeness to him, and we apostatize, and then we're in full apostasy, and we would
say that the priesthood keys go away with that.
And so then we have to have a renewal, we have to have a restoration, so we have a new
dispensation of time, and that's happened from one...
You can track this in the book of scriptures.
Yeah.
With how many prophets there are.
So some of the Book of Mormon pairs with some of the Old Testament scripture and the way
that the covenant was taught then, and as Joseph Smith was translating it, he gets to
see that process of the Lord laying out the development of making a covenant people and
having proper priesthood authority and being fully restored.
And so what I think is cool is we kind of look at the Joseph Smith story like this crazy,
this is the first time that it's ever happened, which is totally untrue.
It's happened multiple dispensations.
In our dispensation in the books.
He doesn't just say, here's this case, and here's the gospel, and this is how it looks
like definitely.
We can learn from the way that the church was restored through him.
We can definitely tell that Adam and Eve, it's not like partaking of the fruit, open
their minds to all truths all at once.
I think that they still had some opportunity to be tutored and then Noah was a dispensation.
Abraham's a dispensation.
I'd be lying if I knew all of the dispensations, but what we know about this one is that it's
the dispensation of the fullness of time.
And so I asked the question, how did he know how to bring forth this final dispensation?
And I answered the question, he didn't.
He definitely didn't know how to do it.
It came line upon line for him just as it must have for every previous dispensation.
Isn't that actually the best too?
Because what if the Lord really laid out everything that it took and how many years?
Overwhelming.
Because we know too that this is continuing restoration.
I mean, that's generations.
You know what I mean?
Absolutely.
So I do love that.
He did so much in his short time from asking the question to being presented with the church
is going to be restored.
The church as it functioned when Jesus Christ was on the earth will come back into play.
But if this 15-year-old boy had been told about temples, that would seem overwhelming.
And even the temple endowment, it came line upon line.
There was pieces to it.
We had questions.
Yeah.
Because he was working through that translation process, doing the Book of Mormon, that's
when you see the best questions.
When you pair where he was translating the Book of Mormon to what the revelations that
we're getting in the Doctrine and Covenants, that's when the magic happens.
You can see he was learning something at the same time, learning something immediately,
and then knowing he was such a good question asker.
And so he would ask a question and then what piece of that was able to be unfolded would
be unfolded.
And so then we'll have that section in the Doctrine and Covenants.
I was just going to say that I always appreciate reading the DNC and realizing, oh, this came
from a question.
He was working with the Book of Mormon.
He had a working knowledge of the Bible, and then he had a question that came from it,
and then boom, we have a new doctrine or something revealed and we're able to grow and learn
from that.
Articulate a question and then take the answers as they're...
Because we're showing that we're ready for the answer to that question.
There's a church video that's out there and he'd lost...
Something he was translating in the Book of Mormon and it gave him the understanding of
eternal families and...
With Alvin, right?
With Alvin and he just lost a baby.
He and Emma had just lost a baby and so to stop the work and to explain to her that this
is definitely unique in the Restoration.
It's definitely a piece that had been lost.
All the preachers and pastors that are trying to give answers, trying to answer the questions
of life didn't have this piece that had been lost.
And so that's such a special one to bring back.
And I think that those moments give him enough energy, William, up to be like, oh, this is
such an amazing thing that we need this back on the earth.
And so just kept him plugging forward until we got to where he left his work off.
And then, I mean, it certainly has...
We're continuing Revelation to this moment.
So right from the talk, it talked about the New Testament being a virtual synonym for
the New Covenant.
There you go.
So that's why that was on my mind.
It's just lined out.
That's what the whole point of the Scripture is, that it's like people are recording their
bit of time and the lessons that they're learning in it and what God had revealed to
them, which is these covenants that he wanted to make with them.
They were lost and they have to be renewed in a Restoration process.
And then we do that cycle again and again.
So they're foundational to the Restoration of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Oh, let's see.
Oh, I love this.
We know that when we partake of the sacrament, we are renewing covenants.
And I love because he used this word, he said, the importance of the ordinance of the sacrament
is evident in the words of the covenant.
So I always think of the sacrament as a prayer, but it's the words of a covenant.
I think I'll just kind of hold that and think on that as I'm partaking in the sacrament
going forward, because I know for myself, I haven't really stopped and thought about
it in that way.
That is awesome.
I will just share the words of the emblems of the bread, to the souls of all those who
partake of it, that they witness unto thee, O God, the eternal Father, that they are willing
to take upon them the name of thy Son, and always remember him and keep his commandments
which he has given them.
So rather than a prayer that we're asking for these things, we're restating.
And then I always repeat in my mind when the prayer is happening, I'm restating covenant
words, not just a prayer.
Yes, that's wonderful.
I just liked it.
That is very good.
So what about temples, Abby?
He does talk.
Yeah, I loved it because it was like the baptismal piece is like such an important part to put
us on what we understand to be the covenant path, something that's going to bring us
closer to Jesus Christ and lead us back to God, heaven, parents, and shows that we have
a desire to be in a covenant relationship with him.
And that's great.
It said something about the ordinance of baptism and its associated covenants are the requirements
for entrance into the celestial kingdom.
So that's good.
You will inherit the celestial kingdom with that level of ordinance making.
But the next sentence is, the ordinances and associated covenants of the temple are required
for exaltation in the celestial kingdom, which is eternal life, the greatest of all, the
gifts of God.
That is the focus of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
So with our last few minutes, let's do talk about the roles of temple when we're considering
the restoration of the fullness of the gospel and the suspension.
I like how we talked about how the restoration through Joseph Smith, it just happened line
upon line.
And if this 15-year-old boy had been like, not just, hey, get these plates, you're going
to translate these plates, it's going to have the fullness of the gospel.
That's a big deal.
Also, you're going to build this temple, but that would be overwhelming.
So the Lord and his goodness, we get just the piece that we need at the time that we
need it.
But I loved how he brought to remembrance as we're talking about the trek west.
These saints were working their hearts out to get that Nauvoo temple built.
And then when they were exterminated, they were told to leave.
They had to keep that temple open around the clock so that anybody that desired it, they
could receive their endowment.
And a lot of them attributed those temple covenants to be the thing to help them get
across the plains.
The strength that they would draw on through all those months.
They received power by being bound to Christ in their endowments in the Nauvoo temple,
gave them strength to make their epic journey and establish themselves in the west.
And I felt that.
I've done that walk from the Nauvoo temple looking back and knowing it was a beautiful
building, but the importance to them of the covenants they were making there, you know,
those didn't ever have to leave.
Even had to leave their precious building behind in their beautiful city.
They really got all the important things they carried with them in the form of covenants.
So I think we should refresh on in this talk, you talked about the role of the temple garment.
Yep.
Hit on it again, right?
Do you want to hit that?
Yeah, I like that he said, persons who have been endowed in a temple are responsible to
wear a temple garment, which is an article of clothing not visible because it's worn
beneath your clothes.
And then I do appreciate the way that he says things.
He says it reminds endowed members of the sacred covenants they've made and the blessings
they've been promised in a holy temple.
It was interesting when he said these words, because covenants do not take a day off to
remove one's garment can be understood as a disclaimer of the covenant responsibilities.
So I, that was a different way of me thinking of it too, is thinking, you know, do I want
to take a day off of my covenant?
I don't want to do that.
So I'm going to wear it the way that I understand I'm supposed to.
And then he says, in contrast, persons who wear their garments fully, faithfully and
keep their temple covenants continually, affirm their role as a disciple of the Lord Jesus
Christ.
I just like the way that he talked about it because he really did say, since the garment
does reflect the way or the fact that we've made covenants with God and the fact that
it covers us with this protection and with a portion of Christ spirit and serves as a
reminder and serves a reminder.
Why would I want to take it off when I could definitely be doing some of the things, you
know, he said, I think he said, except for obvious reasons, which of course you can't
wear when you're swimming and you know what I mean, stuff like that.
So he didn't even go into it.
It was just the obvious reasons and more put the focus on a list maker.
Like you're going to make those decisions on whether are you leaving your garment behind
because you definitely intend to.
Yeah.
Break a covenant or like you, you intentionally are going to leave them behind because for
good reasons, you aren't going to have them.
And I definitely sat and thought about sister and that Dennis's talk put you on the Holy
garment.
I don't even know.
I'm going to the Lord.
It was such a good talk, but clear back some like episode three and the feelings that I
had on that.
What I do love, he emphasizes it's, it's not, it's not the scrubs you wear to doctor.
It's not the police uniform.
It's not the firefighter uniform.
It's not the wedding ring that you're wearing.
It's a personal covering that you wear or don't, but ideally you're wearing and just
made me think back to the thoughts that I had on hers.
As I studied hers and I've definitely thought on it every day since then, as I'm wearing
my garment that for me, it's the reminder of those covenants.
I'm stopping and spending a little bit more time thinking about the covenants that I've
made.
And it's for myself personally, like I could go to church.
I wouldn't know.
I wouldn't know at all.
It's not like the job.
It's like, you know, everybody knows like you're coming to making with the, with the
garment it's personal.
Like you could go to award.
You could assume everybody has them on or doesn't have money.
You don't even know because it's not to display to the world that your covenant maker are
not in some for you personally.
And it serves a whatever reminder that you're wanting, wanting it to be.
Absolutely.
Abby.
So, um, I thought his talk was, uh, it was just so clean cut.
He is clean cut.
Isn't it?
So I'm like, yeah, you, you sold me.
Yes.
That's what makes us different.
We're covenant makers and it was with proper, proper priesthood authority.
And so it definitely deserves another listen.
If you haven't had the chance, we would love you to go back to it, but it made me think
of, um, you know how we were talking about the, um,
You know how we talked about on elder Karen's talk, like his intent is to bring us home.
And we, we talked about like knowing the nature of God, uh, this, this line, the church of
Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is constructing temples all over the world.
Their purpose is to bless the covenant children of God with temple worship and with the sacred
responsibilities and power and unique blessings of being bound to Christ.
They received by covenant.
I haven't made it to the temple like last week as they rolled out some, some further
revelation on, um, rest, you know, like what their, their intent is to get people to the
temple and make it, um, make it Christ centered and allow you to have your time there, but
also be able to, you know, maximize what they're doing there.
Like if you can't get an appointment in the court in the, where, where there's only like
five temples that you were driving, we were down in Salt Lake area.
Like you can see like five temples in any direction.
You can't get appointments in these temples.
People are flooding to the temples and they're busy and they're working.
So some people might be like angry that they've shortened the temple, you know, endowment.
I haven't heard anybody yet.
I am not in those circles.
My people are pretty excited about it, but, um, but they might be like, well, look, the
things change.
I haven't been to say, but I'm confident that the message is the same and clear and it's
beautiful, but it's done in a shorter amount of time so that we can put more sessions into
the temples that are already built so that we can get more people that are desiring to
go and make, uh, make that time in the temple part of their day.
And that is, that for me is just evidence that the Lord loves us and he wants to make
temple worship enjoyable and doable and achievable.
And the fact that they're being built all around the world, giving more of his children
access to those temples with as little financial difficulty as possible does something to teach
me about the nature of God and what he wants for us and that he just using president Nelson
who just can run a million miles an hour to just explode these temples that are around
us.
And so, um, maybe the same plea that I've made before, um, if you are enjoying the,
um, baptismal covenants that you've made and you still haven't, um, considered making
further covenants with the Lord in his temple, that, that you would consider, again, you
know, what, what would it take?
What would it take for you to feel comfortable doing that?
Is there a little change that you need to make in your life?
Um, do you really consider covenants to be something that sets us apart in our church?
And is, is there more that you could be enjoying as far as a covenant relationship with God
in your process of making it back to him?
Yeah, I like that.
Self-reflection is always a good thing.
Yeah.
Um, when it comes to covenants as well.
Um, yeah, those were, those were great points.
I told Garrett before that, um, president Oaks does not mince words.
He doesn't.
There was not a wasted word in that thing.
And you don't wonder what he means by anything.
It's very clear.
It's very instructive.
And I appreciated the talk a lot.
I did too.
Any last words, Abby?
Nope.
Just add my testimony to his that Jesus Christ is the head of this church and his blessings
are available to any that are ready to keep, make and keep sacred covenants with him.
Amen to that.
Amen.
Thanks for joining us.
We'll catch you next time.
Have a good one.