querer.
Welcome to Closer to Christ through Conference. We're two friends who love Jesus sharing our
own approach to general conference. Hey, Abby, how are you?
So good! How's it going, Amy?
Good. Glad you're here.
I'm glad I'm here, too—other that I'm embarrassed. This is the 25th anniversary of
Amy and her husband's life and that we're here recording. It's uh,
we're pressed for time on some things, so it had to be today.
But I feel bad.
It's so much for busy, right?
We just had to find the time.
We've got lives going on.
Okay, so today we're talking about the powerful, virtuous cycle of the doctrine of Christ.
I'm going to say that one more time, because this is like, I feel like he encapsulates
a whole teaching here.
That's so true.
The powerful, virtuous cycle of the doctrine of Christ.
This is by Elder Dale G. Renlund, the Quorum of the Twelve.
Elder Renlund echoes and amplifies the words of our prophet in this talk, and he did it
all through an analogy of lessons that he learned from the back of a kayak while he
was in Hawaii.
He was confident because as a young man, he paddled across.
I love this whole story and how he says it is, hubris never bodes well, does it?
And we all just laugh because we know a good story is coming.
Okay, go for it, Abby.
What would you do next?
I was thinking of this talk, like you said, that I love it when the title really sums
up the take home.
To be honest with you, as I read the title, I didn't appreciate it as much until I got
through and combed through and deep dived through the talk.
But in 100% agreement, I'm like, yeah, it said the powerful, virtuous cycle of the doctrine
of Christ, there is something to be learned.
And I love that he probably didn't think it was that funny or that educational while he
was on the kayak situation.
But when he got home and he had some time to think about it, he's like, well, that's
a conference talk for everybody to enjoy for me.
So I was thinking about this, like we do, how I would bring it up in an early society
or an elders quorum setting, and I think I would just ask that they would read it with
the thought in their mind to consider what analogies that they can tie between the kayak
experience and how we would use that as we're thinking about navigating the challenges of
life with the doctrine of Jesus Christ, rather than excluding him from the process and leaving
him out of it completely.
So should I jump into the first one that popped out at me?
Go for it.
I was thinking, like you said, he learned about kayaking on an ocean lake.
And so we do know that the kayaks that you're used for oceans are a little bit differently
built than the ones he'd used to a child.
You said on top of it, your center of gravity is a little bit different.
You're more on top of the kayak versus being in it.
And what it made me think about is, like, the preparatory steps that we get, like when
trials are going to come, like the kayak that he used as a child could be more considered,
like they take the waves a little bit differently.
You can have waves that hit the sides of it and you're kind of sunk deep in that.
As a first grader, I kayak, so it doesn't take any talent or any real muscle.
You just have to sit there and you kind of move your paddle and get to the places that
you want to.
So from experience, I know it's not that complicated to kayak on a lake.
And so being in the safety of our parents' home gives us some experience, but a ton of
safety is provided as those waves come crashing in.
So anyway, I just thought that to me was a little bit of how there's preparation in our
younger lives that's going to maybe lead to the steps that we'll need as we get to the
bigger challenges, the bigger waves that we're going to face later on in life.
I love that.
He also talked about, I like the different things he said.
So he also talked about rowing at a really fast pace so that he could kind of, you know,
get it there.
Sort of show off.
I didn't say it, but he was showing off.
That's the humorous part.
So yeah, he would get there and then he would just kind of wait for his daughter and wife
to catch up.
And then he says that a 13 centimeter wave hits the kayak and completely flips him over.
He gets it upright and then right again, a 20 centimeter wave flips him again.
He was winded and he feared that he didn't have enough energy to get back on top.
So I love this because it does make you kind of think if you're using a spiritual lens
or a gospel lens, it does have you think of the danger of living the gospel to the extreme
with gusto and thinking that you can just stop while others catch up.
What was something that you were saying about this earlier, like a way that that might look
in life?
Maybe taking a challenge to read the Book of Mormon.
Like you say, you said yourself, I want to read the Book of Mormon in a year, but March
Madness comes along.
We play this March Madness game where you like cruise through the Book of Mormon.
You get kind of a different type of reading.
Then you say, oh, well, I've checked that box.
I'm done reading the Book of Mormon because I did the whole book in the month of March.
So you can cruise.
Like you would think that that's filled your vessel, filled your lantern, whichever way
you want to look at that, but then you're good.
You're covered.
You know, it's interesting because there's-
I'm not saying that's a bad thing.
Sorry.
I'm just saying it's just to consider that as the one and done.
It could be dangerous as he's drawing this analogy.
What were you thinking?
It's just interesting too, because like, you know, there are different personalities and
as many personalities as there are, there are different approaches to life in the gospel,
right?
I remember it was three years ago and I received a priesthood blessing that said, I mean, that
summer, Abby, it was so full.
This summer is so full?
Right?
And I was doing so many things and I mean, it was one thing after another.
And I received a blessing that said, first of all, that I was supposed to go to bed at
a reasonable hour and I chose the time.
It was 10, 10 o'clock for me.
That is like amazing.
It's still light at 10 o'clock here, right?
Anyways, that was one of the things.
But the part that stuck in my mind is it said, keep a pace that you can sustain for the next
30 years.
You know what was going on?
Not the next 30 days.
Oh, I remember exactly.
Okay.
This is when the cabins were in full swing.
Yes, the cabins were in full swing.
We have 10 tiny cabins and there were families coming.
So I was laundering and getting people in and out.
My parents came to live for the summer.
They first remodeled their cabin.
We had another family that came to live for the summer, remodeled their cabin.
I had a wonderful nephew who came and did a service mission here.
I was Young Women's President and I was doing camp for that.
I was getting a missionary ready to leave.
I mean, there were just a lot of things that were going on, right?
We also helped my dad with his feet.
We didn't know that he started walking after diabetes, things like that.
There were a lot of things going on.
So for me, my personality is more like I'll do all the things.
But what I don't realize sometimes is that my body has a say too.
And sometimes it's like, you're done, tap out, we're resting now.
You know what I mean?
So it's just good to remember that too, that again, he says, we're the safest when we are
able to have this momentum steady, slow if it needs to be, momentum to get us through,
not burn out and crash and then just be done for a while.
Give our all in that moment and then become so exhausted by overworking ourselves, by
setting unrealistic expectations that he never set for us.
Absolutely.
And then having to take a breather because what happens when you stop, like with this
ocean story, small waves can overturn you.
And then the challenge to get back on top of the kayak when you've been totally knocked
off because the waves haven't stopped.
Like you still have to do that.
It doesn't sound very fun, does it?
It's exhausting.
So I'm going to jump off from there because at this moment after the second turnover,
that's when the instructor sees the situation and he actually hitches a tow rope to the
kayak and begins paddling and pulling and gives Elder Renlund a chance to catch his
breath until he can take over the paddling again on his own.
And so when he realizes that he's equipped to do that, he lets go of the rope and they
make it to the first island.
Once they get their Elder Renlund flops down, he's totally exhausted in the sand.
So this just made me think of what a sweet blessing it is when certain people are put
into our path that need our help and they're willing to be that helping hand when you see
somebody struggling.
So I just kind of stopped and thought about the intuition it takes to help somebody in
the appropriate manner.
So I think that the instructor thought, you know, like he could have given him some words
of advice right there, but I think he assessed the situation and he thought if I asked him
if he needs help, he might, in the particular, like towing, the specific towing at that specific
moment, he might say, no, I don't, I don't need it.
And then he'll, he'll fail at the ability to get to that first island.
So he hooked on, he just waited for him to catch his breath and then he comfortably released
him.
So I just tied that into, I like, it's more of like a tool I'm putting in my belt to say,
especially my children, my husband, if they come to me with a challenge that I say, like
I maybe will take a moment to assess where they're at and what maybe help they're going
to need from me.
Maybe even ask them like, like, what, why did you come to me about this?
What, what can I do to help you?
Do you want me to step in, do it completely?
Do you want me to partner with you in this or do you want me to just be a sounding board
for the challenges that you're in?
Yeah.
And you're really good at that.
I've heard you say before, you know, I just wanted to ask my children, can you verbalize
what you need?
That's a huge step.
And even asking someone to help you do that.
I mean, yeah, it's true.
We can help people where they are and use our life experiences and you do that really
well.
I don't know that I did that well, but that's nice of you to say.
It made me think, just take a few extra breaths to assess the situation.
If I really want to minister like in the Savior's way, then he would just give the right amount
of help without overdoing the help.
Totally.
So that's the take home for me.
A gift of discretion.
So they get to that first dial and the group's resting up and the guide, he offers some advice.
He tells them, he says, Mr. Renlund, if you just keep paddling, maintaining your momentum,
I think you're going to be fine.
So Elder Renlund says, I followed his advice as we paddled to the second island and then
back to our starting point.
Twice the guide rode by and told me I was doing great.
Even larger waves hit my kayak from the side, but I was not flipped over.
So just to carry on on the expertise of this particular guide, what incredible lessons
we're learning from him.
Like you said, if we, like, if we think of this in the gospel way, if we put a ton into
the gospel to the point of exhaustion and then we have to stop and catch our breath
for a while, that's when Satan knows to come in.
It's true.
And you would think, well, I've been doing guilty.
You would feel guilty.
And you'd be like, I've been doing all of these good things that should have carried
me for a while.
But he's wise and cunning and he knows exactly the moment to attack.
And that's when he comes for it.
So what I would say is that he definitely had a different experience from getting from
Island One to Two and then back because the advice that was offered to him was well placed
in just the right time.
And so he was definitely able to improve on the experience and way more successfully make
it to Island Two with just a little pieces of advice and see, you know, with very little
assistance from there.
Yeah, encouragement, right?
Good timing and encouragement.
Right.
We're not talking the tow rope in this situation.
We're not talking like longer breaks.
We didn't have to stop and rest at an island longer.
All it took was just, hey, you're doing well.
You listened to the advice that I gave you.
You definitely were receptive to it.
And so it's definitely getting you to where you need to be.
Love it.
I love that so much, too.
Okay, so I love it, too, because we're talking about the momentum.
That's essentially what he has created for himself, maintaining your momentum, like he
said.
This makes me think that President Nelson's taught from a while ago.
He taught that as we repeatedly embrace the doctrine of Christ over a lifetime, we produce
a powerful virtuous cycle.
So the question would be, how does a person create spiritual momentum in their lives?
Such easy concepts, but like until you put it down on paper and you're really looking
at it, you're like, what does it take to have those skills that you need?
So he went into talking about what the elements of the doctrine of Jesus Christ are and how
we could experience them more fully.
So I think if it's cool with you, I think we'll kind of hit the elements of the doctrine
of Christ.
Love it.
And then, you know, we'll all kind of be assessing how am I applying that element in my life
and do I need to make tweaks?
Or is it like that one that I'm really solid in?
Because it's the combining of the multiple pieces of the doctrine of Christ in improving
upon them each time that we do that, that gets us to the title of the talk, this powerful
virtuous cycle of the doctrine of Christ.
So the first one is always faith, faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
And so I thought, what am I doing?
From the talk, too, I pulled some ideas right out from there, but what am I doing to increase
my faith in the Lord Jesus Christ?
And certainly, daily prayer is important.
Scripture study.
And again, I think we've already talked about how manageable expectations on that are wise
versus just kind of power loading and then thinking that that's going to get us by, you
know.
And maybe I'm pretty guilty of this.
Like if the weeks kind of got ahead of me and I've been studying and other things, then
I'm jumping in the Scriptures preparatory to a lesson that I'm going to prepare.
I'm like, it's not as powerful as if like Monday morning that I got into those Scriptures
and then was able to think about them during the week for Come Follow Me.
It's true.
What I found was when I'm willing the best at it, when I get the Scriptures in my mind
from Come Follow Me as a mom, I was having way more of those moments when like the kids
would ask a question, I easily have some Scriptures to recall that were pertinent to that week's
Come Follow Me.
Or I homeschool, and so I would like run across something in any subject, really, just any
time I'd be like, oh my heck, that pairs with what I'm studying, Come Follow Me.
So I mean, if I'm being honest, it's summer, I'm like not the best in my schedule.
I get the checkbox part of it done, but you know, I could do definitely better on my daily
Scripture intake.
The depth of it.
Yeah.
Well, and that's even another thing.
He asks us to be in him daily.
He can make up the difference between like, if I'm really in his Word, then he can help
me recall those in the time that is nice and necessary.
You don't even have to be great at it.
You really just ask to get into the Scriptures.
That's true.
He didn't ask for a chapter, he didn't ask for reading a whole book, like he just asked
you to get into his Word, his Scripture.
So I've seen blessings even when I'm not great at that.
So anyway, past Scripture study, reflecting on the goodness of God daily.
That's huge.
Like just being aware of the things around you and where they came from.
Oh yeah.
This gratitude thing that makes all the difference.
Being mindful.
Repenting daily.
Like too often we think like it's the big things that we're going to say for that we
really need to ask forgiveness for, but there are like a lot of minor things in a day that
he could help us improve if we recognize that we want to improve those.
And so as we're rethinking the day and thinking, hey, I'd change that if I could go back a
little bit.
He can give us the opportunity to do that.
Like the next time around, we might take an extra breath and not say words that we didn't
really mean to.
I like that.
That's really good.
I like this.
So, we need to take responsibility for our own testimonies and follow the promptings
of the Holy Ghost daily until we've developed bedrock faith in Jesus Christ.
So he just said this, just as it's not healthy to defer eating all of our food until Sunday
and then binging our weekly allotment of nutrition, it's not spiritually healthy to restrict our
testimony nourishing behavior to one day in the week.
And I guess I just, after reading that and thinking on my own processes and what things
I'm doing to build faith in Jesus Christ and how I'm implementing that into my life, I
certainly see room for improvement in my own life, but I also see moments when I'm pretty
happy with the success that I've had in it.
And so, pairing what I've done that's worked for me and where I think I could improve,
like I'm not just down on myself like, oh, you need to get better at that.
He's helping me in the reflection.
He's helping me see like, you made that work like the earlier morning for me.
Like if I get up and get it done in the morning, like get a prayer and get into the scriptures
or if I go on a walk and I'm listening to a conference talk or listening to scripture,
it makes my day totally different.
I've been able to witness that in my own life and so, I'm not suggesting that everybody
do it that way, but play around with the timeliness of it if you're kind of, like your days seem
kind of overwhelming and you're not sure we're going to fit one more thing.
Just see how your day is magnified and multiplied by doing these small things to build your
faith in Jesus Christ.
I agree with that, Abby.
I like that.
And so, just really quickly, you know how you were saying He doesn't say, you know,
do this amount for whatever.
No.
It's what you can do and you put in your time and maybe if there's something like you're
in a certain spot in the scriptures or whatever it is, and maybe you don't get through an
entire principle or you don't get through something that like totally clicks with you,
even on those days, it's fine because when you put yourself in scripture, it's not necessarily
on some days.
Yeah.
It's not necessarily the words that will carry you, but it's the spirit that is in the scriptures
that carries and is overarching, a spirit of peace, a spirit of calm, a spirit of God.
Absolutely.
And I could hear from, like you're testifying on that.
You've experienced that some days you've read the scriptures and it's just been because
you know that there's benefits of reading the scripture.
The answer that you were looking for wasn't in that, but who's to say that it didn't come
later on that day as you were cooking or running another errand?
Yeah, I just, I agree, 100%.
Do you feel comfortable talking about the repentance piece of the element of the doctrine
of Christ?
Sure.
So, momentum likewise builds as we strive to obey the laws of God and repent.
Repentance is joyful and allows us to learn from our mistakes, which is how we progress
eternally.
We will undoubtedly have times when we flip over in our kayaks and find ourselves in deep
water.
Through repentance, we can get back on top and continue no matter how many times we've
fallen off.
I love this because I feel like at the beginning of my life, I just more, and maybe this was
just me and it's my personality that's built into me.
But what I heard was, don't make mistakes.
Don't make mistakes.
Don't sin.
I didn't hear a lot about the repentance and how I love now that it's joyful.
Like hearing joyful repentance like that, it was a mind shift for me when President
Nelson said, you know, find the joy in daily repentance.
I loved that.
My spirit was like, hey, that is true.
Or what I felt, kind of like you're a quote, bad person if you need to repent.
That is so far from the truth.
Do you know what I mean?
Like every time we turn to Heavenly Father, every time we take part in the atonement of
Jesus Christ and bring it into our lives, we are bringing Jesus into our lives.
So truly as a kid, I thought I was a better person as long as I didn't make mistakes.
Like I had it all wrong.
So I love this.
It makes me so happy to think of just with my children and even, you know, when they
come, my grandchildren talking about joyful repentance and how it's a daily thing.
For some reason, it's easier to repent about small things, doing it a lot of times over
and over and over, than like you said before, saving up for the big stuff.
There's no need for that.
Do you know what I mean?
And it gets easier as you do the small things.
So I'm grateful for that teaching.
I think we lived in the same day and age.
I think it's our parents' job to teach us about repentance and then, you know, you don't
want to make your kids think like fighting with their sibling is like an unforgivable
sin and that you need to go visit the bishop about it.
And so you'll use examples of like murdering somebody.
And then I'll be like, well, I didn't murder anybody today, so I have nothing that I need
to repent for.
I can totally resonate with what you're saying because I think we don't want them to get
boggled with the idea of like they're just living in sin all the time, like every minute
you're going to need to.
But the more beautiful thing is that the Savior, the process of the atonement, you know, it's
so much more encompassing.
I think we just narrow it down to like you're forgiven for your sins because of the atonement,
but in reality, everything is made right through the atonement.
And so like the little wrongs that happen in the day, you know, hurt feelings or words
said, you know, in the wrong way or with like the wrong emotion or the way that those words
hit you or like so many more little pieces of the day can be made right through Jesus
Christ.
So I don't really know if there's a better way to explain that to kids.
I think joyful repentance is awesome.
And joyfully coming to my table when I invite you for dinner, I would way rather you come
and joyfully partake of everything that I've made rather than feel guilty that I spent
time and you didn't.
You know what I'm saying?
I do know what you're saying.
I'm just trying to think of my kids and their personalities and like how can we, and I think
that it really, I think that this would really start with understanding their Savior Jesus
Christ, all the things he can be for them.
So that when you're like a man and then you catch them, they come to you with like this
emotion and we decided sadness because of a betrayal and maybe their friend said something
to them, then we work back and we say, you know, the way you respond to that friend,
like you don't want to do that out of anger, but you also don't want to like be like a,
what do you call that?
Like people walk all over you?
Is that a rug?
A rug.
Door mat.
Whatever.
But then you can say, even if they don't realize that that hurt your feelings, those feelings
can be made right, like turn that over to Jesus Christ, right?
And then you explain, then they're like, I feel so much better about that.
And you say that was the atonement working in your life.
Amen.
Okay, I'll do this.
I'm not saying I'm great at it, but you've helped me walk through the idea.
And he's the one that invites us to his table, right?
He wants us to come joyfully.
The word joyful is super key in this.
It is.
It changes it for me.
Because what's the opposite of that?
Guilty.
Yes.
And so burdened.
Yes.
And also feeling like it's all on you.
So who wants you to feel that way?
Who wants you to feel his emotions?
Same.
Definitely.
Because it recognizes the power more than we even do of what you can turn over to Jesus
Christ.
He must.
He's seen it.
Yeah.
Jacob, in the Book of Mormon, taught, remember after we, that's inserted, are reconciled
into God, that it is only in and through the grace of God that we are saved.
So we all need the Savior's infinite atonement in our lives, and it's just part of it.
Love it.
And the better that we can incorporate it into all aspects of our life, the more power
that we're going to have.
I wanted to talk about the third thing, which is entering a covenant relationship.
And he specifically ties into baptism to start off with.
But he talked about how baptism of water and through confirmation, the baptism of the Holy
Ghost, that it's not just a singular event because we're renewing the baptismal covenant
repeatedly with the sacrament.
All covenants that we make, we're renewing with the sacrament.
The sacrament does not replace baptism, but it links the initial elements of the doctrine
of Christ, which are faith and repentance, with the reception of the Holy Ghost.
As we conscientiously partake of the sacrament, we invite the Holy Ghost into our lives, just
like when we're baptized and confirmed.
As we keep the covenant described in the sacrament prayers, the Holy Ghost becomes our companion.
Forward spiritual momentum also propels us to make additional covenants with God in the
house of the Lord, and multiple covenants draw us closer to Christ and connects us more
strongly to him.
So he said that, and then I'm boom, I'm thinking of Elder Bednar.
He anchors and pins into our foundation of the bedrock, which is Jesus Christ.
And I loved it because it makes this talk applicable to, you know, for me, it's just
like, you know, it caused me to think why baptism is so important or why the gospel
of Jesus Christ is so important in my life, and it all comes down to covenants.
And the more we invest in our side of that covenant relationship, the more ability he
has to amplify that and give us more of his power.
So I just stopped and thought on that for a little while.
I love that too, Abby.
I like, you know, I'm not remembering the exact thing he said, but in this talk, one
of the quotes I loved so much is he said, it's not that Heavenly Father wants us to,
and I don't remember the word that it was, but he wants us to choose to be like him.
Like it's, is that in here somewhere?
It's definitely in this talk.
It just spoke to me because that is exactly it.
It was like this, he doesn't want us to be good or like to do good.
He wants us to choose to do good.
And when I read that, I was like, oh, absolutely, because as he was trying to figure out the
way that the plan was going to be executed, if it was done under him, everybody was going
to choose right.
Nobody was going to choose wrong.
How does that in any way grow us to be more like Savior Jesus Christ and be, you know,
able and willing to have all that the Father has?
Like how, where's the growth?
Where's that growth?
Why didn't we just stay put in the pre-existence and not have this Earth life if it's like
you never really knew if it was you that wanted to make that decision versus somebody else?
Totally.
Sounds miserable too.
Yeah.
Okay, so receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost and enduring to the end.
Because the Holy Ghost exerts a greater influence in our lives, we progressively, here it is,
and iteratively develop Christ-like attributes.
There's that word, our hearts change, our disposition to do evil diminishes, our inclination
to do good increases, and we only want to do good continually.
This is exactly where that quote was in it.
As we thereby access the heavenly power needed to endure to the end.
So our faith is increased and we are ready to repeat this powerful virtuous cycle again.
Can we stop back on that word, iteratively?
Yes.
I had to look it up to be like, how is he using this?
But I loved it because he hits us with this last point and what he's saying is you might
not get it right the first time that you attempt to exhibit faith or live up to the baptism
of covenant or repent the repentance process or, you know, listening to the promptings
of the Holy Ghost.
You might not get it perfectly right, but your attempt at trying it is a, it's a cycle.
You're cycling through this thing and if you recognize that it could be improved, that
process could be improved, then the next time that you do it, you do improve it.
That's when you get those Christ-like attributes that make us more like our Savior Jesus Christ
and more prepared to inherit all that the Father has.
Absolutely.
I love that.
I was like, you're not even asking me to do it perfectly.
Yeah, just keep trying.
Even though you've given me the perfect example, you're not even asking me to do that.
I did love that too.
So good.
I mean, when we list them like that, that was like one through four, technically five,
because enduring to the end.
But making the point from the talk that it's not a check the box, one-time event.
We experience these elements of the Doctrine of Christ over and over through our lives
with different life experience picked up and gained every time that we're doing it.
And that's how we come to the name, the powerful virtuous cycle that President Nelson described.
So even though repeating elements, that might sound to somebody like you're just going in
circles throughout your life, but it's not a circle because you're in a forward trajectory
and you're moving towards Jesus Christ each time we make it through the cycle.
Totally.
So this is what I see.
So when I thought of I was learning something in my life that was kind of parallel with
– I was trying to figure out like what the name of this thing was that I was learning.
And then when President Nelson said spiritual momentum, I'm like, that's it.
Because I was saying, there has to be a word for like when you're pulling, drawing back
an arrow, everyone would say, well, nothing's happened yet.
And I'm saying, but there is something because you're drawing it back and you're about to
go forward, right?
Anyways, so in my mind, I see the arrow going forward.
That's the forward momentum.
But with this one, I see a corkscrew, like, okay, a powerful number one has that momentum
behind it.
And it's a virtuous cycle.
I see it like continuing.
Instead of a downward spiral, it's an upward spiral.
Which I like that.
Like I can do that.
You know what I mean?
Sometimes in life, these things feel like mountains to climb and like rather than saying
like take that, take straight path up, take the straight path up, it does make more sense
to make a continuous cycle.
The visualization of a switchback.
I'm the arrow pulling back on the arrow and getting that momentum built up and then focusing
on the Savior and then like releasing and letting that momentum carry you closer towards
Him.
I'm also seeing that too.
Yeah, it's like all that works together.
Absolutely.
I highlighted this part of the talk, so I better say it.
Through our covenants, we have greater access to His power.
Baptismal and temple covenants are not in and of themselves the source of power.
So I do keep saying I'm like learning, I'm learning where to recognize the power that
I'm getting from the temple, the words in the temple, the covenants that I made in the
temple.
But I love that He said this because I'm like, this resonates.
This doesn't make me want to change the way that I've been saying that.
But He says, the source of power is the Lord Jesus Christ and our Heavenly Father.
Learning and keeping covenants creates a conduit for their power in our lives.
I love it.
Awesome.
It's funny, not funny, it always points to Christ.
Like if you're not really sure what the whole middle of everything is, it's usually Jesus
Christ, you know what I mean?
I would say almost every time.
And what's the point of venturing on this continuous, powerful, virtuous cycle of the
doctrine of Christ?
It is to eventually become inheritors of all that Heavenly Father has.
Our divine nature is recognized and our eternal destiny is realized.
So once you've got it figured out for yourself, Amy, what does it mean to help others inappropriate
in appropriate ways?
I don't want to sound like inappropriate ways.
Yes.
Okay.
In, pause, appropriate ways, especially considering the kayak story clear back from the beginning.
So you've maybe not doing it perfectly, but iteratively, you're getting better at it.
How do you then take that and share that with somebody else?
Again, I think that the beauty of this story is in pausing and saying, what did I learn?
What were the principles?
And one of the hugest things, like when I went back and was underlining things in this
talk, it was the timing of when that instructor came and said, you know, just a few little
things because it was timely.
He was ready to listen.
And so I love that.
You know, he didn't say, hey, Mr. Remlin, what are you doing in the water?
And Mr. Remlin, you would not be in this situation if you were more physically fit.
He didn't say those things.
And sometimes as a ministering sister or even as a parent, you know, we might catch ourselves
saying things and as they're coming out of your mouth, you're like, this might not be
helpful.
Do you know what I mean?
Absolutely.
But it was in the timing and that's the time when we can say a quick prayer and just say,
please help me to have the right words to say in this situation.
It's a hard thing though, because I have watched trials and from the outside, not knowing all
the nuances of it, I have used it as an example to be like, it does sound judgy.
It's not gonna come out any other way of sounding judgy.
But I've been able to say, if they were living the law of tithing, then this particular thing,
like I'm not saying money, it's just gonna just windfall, like it's just gonna be great.
But I've seen too many blessings from tithing.
If somebody's opening up to me about like a financial situation, I'm thinking, are you
paying your tithing?
And they say, no, I'm thinking, probably wouldn't even...
I'd be struggling with this.
It sounds judgy, but I'm like, that's...
So if they ask my advice, maybe that's what happens, like that I just...
I should more so just be like, how grateful I am for a testimony of tithing that things
have always worked out when there's no way that on paper they should have worked out,
versus like, well, they should have done that.
And I don't know that I verbalize that to that person, but maybe if I just listen to
the situation and they say, do you want something from me?
Do you want advice?
Do you want to talk about it?
Is there some way that I can help you?
I mean, I would probably just turn them over to the course that I've done through the church
a couple times now.
That's the first thing.
Like, it doesn't even have to be my advice, because they go through Scripture and like
they go through real-time practical...
And it's living the law that you want to...
Yeah, what's that course called?
Self-Reliance?
Self-Reliance.
That's the personal finance aspect of the personal finance thing in the church.
So, I'll go ahead.
No, you go.
When you were saying that, it's so funny because when you said, it's kind of hard, but the
first thing you want to ask is, are you paying tithing?
It's so funny because years and years ago, Gare shared with me a story where he was talking
to one of the guys that he worked with and he asked him a question like that.
And Gare, the guy answered no, that he wasn't living this specific law.
And Gare's answer was, the first thing he said was, that's great news.
Yeah, because we can just fix it.
Because that's a great place to start.
If you were doing all the things, I wouldn't really know what to tell you, but like, we
can start here.
This is awesome.
So, I kind of like that approach, you know what I mean?
This is great news.
Like it would catch him off guard.
He was like, so good.
It would catch him off guard if he was like, yeah, I'm paying my tithing.
Be like, oh, where do I go from here?
Yeah, I like that.
Okay, well, I'd like to think that that was like the intent of my heart every time this
has come up, but I don't know that it has been.
So, it's something worth considering.
Then that was my take home from this.
I was like, you can see how much effect a good instructor had in changing the rest of
the experience for elder Renlund.
And I just thought, I've got a lot of life left in front of me and I like a lot of these
conversations that are still to happen.
And if I can take this as a tool to put in that, you know, metaphorical belt that when
they come up and I just think like, are the words that I'm going to speak going to bring
you closer to Jesus Christ?
Or am I going to feel guilty about the thing that I'm saying?
Then in that way, then I'm relying on the Spirit, the Holy Ghost to help me improve
on that.
So, I would say I give myself like a, maybe a C on what I've done so far, but that I do
feel optimistic that I can get more like in the A range on this one.
Oh, absolutely.
It's all good news, right?
Yes.
Okay.
Any last thoughts?
Should I wrap this up?
Go ahead and wrap this up.
From the top, we do need all our compassion, empathy, and love as we interact with those
around us.
Those who are struggling need to experience the pure love of Jesus Christ reflected in
our words and actions.
As we minister, we encourage others frequently and offer help, even if someone's not receptive.
We continue to minister as they allow.
The Savior taught that unto such shall you continue to minister, for you know not but
what they will return and repent and come unto me with full purpose of heart.
And I shall heal them, and you shall be the means of bringing salvation unto them.
The Savior's job is to heal.
Our job is to love, to love and minister in such a way the others are drawn to Jesus Christ.
This is one of the fruits of the powerful virtuous cycle of the doctrine of Christ.
So I just stopped and I thought, I'm not doing great at something.
I've got some action items for myself.
What an opportunity it is to maybe be that instructor or be that person that's put in
the past to reflect the love of Jesus Christ and help somebody back onto the top of that
kayak.
But it's not really anything you're going to do.
Jesus Christ has already done it.
You're just like His hands in the moment or His mouthpiece.
And the best way to say the right thing is to definitely involve the Holy Ghost in that
process.
You can't say the wrong thing, but you can't say the wrong thing if your intent isn't to
harm her to hurt, but just to help somebody back on that virtuous, powerful cycle of the
doctrine of Christ also.
So good, Abby.
Thank you.
Thanks for being here.
We'll catch you guys next time.
See you next time.
healthy.