Welcome to Closer to Christ, a conference where two friends who love Jesus share our
own approach to studying general conference, and we alight to invite you along this journey
with us today. We get to go over the talk entitled, The Fruit That Remains, that was
done by Elder Matthew L. Carpenter of the Seventy in the Saturday evening session. And
I'm just going to paraphrase what he kicked it off with. He started talking about peaches.
I'm a fan. So, yes, he talked about how, if you're familiar with peaches, they're beautiful.
And if they're allowed to ripen on the vine, you've got like 24 hours to eat that thing
before it starts decaying on you. And that because of that, and his love for them, he
learned how to preserve them with his mother. And if you follow the laws of preserving fruit,
then you're able to turn this fruit that can typically only last a day or two into something
that will last for years. And then he uses that as he says he wants to talk about, like
the deeper meaning of it, about how the fruit of the everlasting gospel is the covenant
of marriage and the new and everlasting covenant. And so he's going to be talking about, you
know, sealing things eternally for those who are willing to live by the law of the new
and everlasting covenant of marriage. So, did that sum it up?
Yep, sounds good.
Succinctly enough?
Sounds good, Abby.
What stood out to you that you'd like to share?
You know, there were a couple of things that stood out to me. There are so many unknowns
in this topic. And so what I really clung onto were the promises from the prophets and
the scriptures. And I love when Elder Carpenter said that President Nelson has taught that
there are two types of bonds that we enter into this eternal marriage covenant. So there's
the lateral bond between husband and wife, and there's the vertical bond between God.
To have the blessing of exaltation sealed upon us and remain after this life, we must
be true to both the lateral and the vertical bonds of the covenant. And I'm a visual
person and so I do like visualizing that, yeah, this is the one covenant, Abby, that,
you know, when we go to baptism, it's between us and God. So that would be vertical. When
we receive our endowment, it's between us and God. When we go to the temple for washing
anointings, it's the same thing. When we have a marriage, of course, it's between
man and wife, and then it's also between God. So I love that because you're starting a family.
It's not just going one way, it's expanding.
You're building something. And a few of the things you said stood out in a way that made
me think we're involving more people in this process. It makes it, it can potentially make
it a little bit more messy and complicated.
Right.
So I think as we read this talk and we were studying it individually, he talks about,
you know, the ideal and then very well aware of the exceptions to the ideal. So I think
because this is such a sensitive topic, I think he's provided such a wealth of important
things in this talk that we would suggest reading it. Like, I would approach this talk
and I would say, you know, like, help me find the joy in the sealing covenant.
That's great.
And so if you're living, if you're like, if you're already married, like maybe that'll
give you some direction on like how to approach your marriage or like what you can do in that
way. And if that topic hurts your feelings because you haven't found, you know, your
eternal companion yet at this point, it just kind of stings. It feels a little bit differently.
Like it looks like something that's being withheld from you. But I love this talk because
I kind of read it as I read it with those eyes. I read it through the eyes of somebody that
maybe has gone through a divorce. I've read it through the eyes of somebody who's lost
his spouse. Like I read it multiple ways and I'm thinking this talk is not really intended
to bring anything but absolute joy with the idea that you can bind on earth. We have the
opportunity to bind on earth and that binding will continue to last into heaven. And even
if the situation is a little bit messy and a little bit complicated, it's because we're
looking at it from earthly eyes, we don't really get all of the facets of it. And we
don't have gobs of information on it just past the fact that there's, here's the covenant
and here's the blessings associated with it.
Right. I totally agree with that. You know, and I've heard when you're talking about
that, I've heard so many people that say, well, why is this taught? Why do we talk about
celestial marriage? Because for some people, it's not, either they feel like it's not something
that's attainable right then, or it's not something that appeals to them right then.
And you know, in the last October conference, I really appreciated the words of President
Oaks where he talked about the sacred privilege of being offered to offer this covenant. And
he just said that the highest destination, exaltation in this celestial kingdom, is the
focus of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. So that's why it's taught, so that
there is an understanding of what is available and then we get to opt into it with our own
agency. At what level are we able to opt in?
Yeah, and it's like, even if you're not living the ideal, it doesn't mean that we don't want
to teach the ideal because it's achievable, because of Jesus Christ and His atonement,
it is 100% achievable for every one of His children.
Absolutely.
Even if it's not in this moment.
Yes, and eventually. Whenever that timing is going to be. I love that. So if you're reading
it, if you're reading this talk and it just causes you pain and it makes you feel uncomfortable,
like that's the prayer in your heart should be, let me know that this is a truth that
will be mine also at some point.
That you believe.
Sooner than later. Just kidding.
That you believe that it is for you too. All of these wonderful things that are spoken
about are for you as well. And to ask to receive that witness for yourself, I agree.
We have to go through a whole series of life and challenges, like marriage is the best
thing in the world, but it's also the most important thing that I'm doing right now and
my children, what we're doing, that it's hard.
Absolutely.
Like it's going to be the thing that's the most challenging because it's also the promises,
the most rewards. And so let's just kind of cut to the chase on this. When I think about
doing proxy temple work, when you get to that point in the temple and you're doing ceilings,
I'm hoping that you, that we're speaking to an audience that maybe has had an experience
where they have sealed people together or children to those people, to these proxy work,
I'm going to call them, they're more than people, they're a family. They're a family
and that it's just a beautiful thing. It's not complicated. I have no idea how hard their
lives were on this earth, if they even liked each other. But I felt multiple times when
I've done ceilings in the temple that they're grateful and that they're happy, that they've
been sealed.
And that again, it all falls on them if they choose to receive that.
Absolutely. I'm not saying that every time that I've done ceilings that it's like, oh
yeah, they're here with us and they're appreciating this. All I'm saying is that it's so much
less complicated for them than all of the things we can think about here in this life.
It makes it a real option.
I can think of a lot more exceptions to the rule. And so we both agree that we need, we
are hoping that you're hearing this with the ears that we know that there's like less than
ideal situations out there, but that we know because of our Savior Jesus Christ, all of
that will be made perfect.
Absolutely. And that we're sealed to Christ.
So, this is the bare minimum, the fact of, we do baptismal covenant, we do baptism, we
do confirmations, we do initiatory work, we do endowments, we do ceilings, okay? What
can we tell people about the promises and the blessings that come from the new and everlasting
covenant of marriage?
I love that. So there are a few things, right? What's something you can think of? And one
is, you know, dwelling in God's presence for eternity, together as husband and wife. What's
something else?
I think inheriting thrones, kingdoms, principalities, powers, and that you can have seed posterity
forever.
And then the biggest one for me is receiving all that God has to give. I want to receive
all of it. I don't want to be like, I don't want, you know what I'm saying? I don't want
to hold back.
I'm glad that you nodded back to President Oakes' talk because I thought the same thing
that I felt, it's like he was in this very powerful, blunt way and he was talking about,
this is the standard, but it was, it's achievable to all. So that's why it's not hurtful, even
if you're not experiencing it in the moment. It's like if you worked your hardest and you
were doing a project and you put the best work out there. And then after you got the
project done, they were like, and then here is what you could have, this is what you could
have done to get an A. Like that's a B project. And you're like, I did my best and you didn't
tell me what I needed to do to get an A. I'm like, well, now I'm telling you.
Totally unfair.
It's just giving you, it's giving you the absolute ideal that can exist.
I agree. I also love, you know, as you bring up President Oakes' talk from last time, how
you said we will all be able to be a place where we're happy. I love the word how we
used abide.
Yes.
And that was to...
Dwell comfortably in the presence of the Lord.
Yes, just to be comfortable.
Wherever you are.
Wherever you are. Yeah. And so we're going to be more than happy with wherever it is
that we choose to be with our own agency. I'm really not worried about that. Like anytime
I've left something up to the Lord, He has more than exceeded my expectations. And so
I really, I would love for that to come through, that I really do believe and trust that He's
going to make the best of all these situations and we're just going to do our best on this
side.
Love that. Let's delve into like some quotes from the talk. How He explained like by what
power is this marriage sheathing even made available to us on this earth?
Right. By the Holy Ghost. It says in His divine role as the Holy Spirit of promise, we'll
seal each ordinance upon those who are faithful to their covenants so that it will be valid
after mortality. And then this part, having the Holy Ghost seal our ordinance is essential
if we want to have the promised blessings for all eternity, becoming fruit that remains.
This is particularly important if we want. I love that part. It doesn't talk of like,
it's not saying you have to do X, Y, Z. It's saying if you want this, this is what we do.
And that totally reminds me of the way that I liked to parent. Like you talk in positives
instead of you don't get to do this if, but if you want, this is what you can do. Do you
know what I'm saying? So that's a type of way that really that type of speaking and
that type of teaching really resonates with my heart. Like if you want this, then this
is what you do. It makes sense to me.
And as you were speaking, I was thinking if my eternal companion is equally invested in
our marriage as I am, at the beginning, in the middle, and at the end, then we're both
showing that we want that sealing to perpetuate into the eternities. We've both lived up to
that and so then that will happen versus like somebody that thinks, you know, maybe they
put the wool over somebody's eyes and they act like the one person, they get sealed and
they think that's got me locked into this situation forever. And then they use that
as like ammunition. And it's a painful thing. And so then you start talking about
eternities and these ceilings and you believe in it so deeply that you're like, I'm stuck
with this for the rest of my life.
Which is absolutely not the case. I love when President Oaks talked about this as well.
Elder Carpenter quotes him from the October 2023 conference. He says, and this is probably
my favorite part of the entire talk. He says, we also know that God will force no one into
a sealing relationship against his or her will. That's everything. The blessings of
a sealed relationship are assured for all who keep their covenants, but never by forcing
a sealed relationship on another person who is either unwilling or unworthy. I feel like
that's everything right there. Like, cause that really answers every question that you
could have.
I agree. It answers so much. And especially if you take this talk with the, with whatever
eyes you need to see them, like whatever comfort you need to see, like the, I just, I worry
the way, the few things that he said in this talk, it makes me worried that he's encountered
people in his ministry that have been like, more like scared about the sealing power because
they don't want to be locked into something that's unhealthy and makes them unhappy. There's
no way that that reconciles with God's law.
It's all about happiness and joy. And the sealing gives me absolute joy. Like I love
the idea of being bound to my family, my posterity forward and my, what do you call them? What
do you call that behind you? Ancestors. I like the idea of being linked to all of them
and however tightly they want that link to be. But you know, those ordinance have been
put in place that make it possible.
Yeah. You know, when you were talking, Abby, this just came to my mind. So when we're talking
about all the different, so the Lord has established what the standard is, right? And we also know
that because we're human and because each person has their own agency, there are going
to be a million different ways and scenarios that this looks, correct? This just came to
mind. So a couple of years ago, I think everyone will remember President Nelson asked us to
be a peacemaker and to think of maybe something that had gone in your life with a relationship
with someone and to have a conversation or do whatever to clear that up and to reconcile
it. Yeah, to reconcile. Put it in the past. Yes. So I had been working on that. There
was a situation and we had been working on it. And I had, I mean, I'd been working for
months and months and months and on forgiving and on asking for forgiveness in my mind,
yet I wasn't able to meet with this person yet. And then the day came, we made an appointment,
the day came and this person wasn't able to do it. So I was heartbroken because I had
looked so forward to it and I had put a lot of work into it. And that night I was praying
and I was like, Heavenly Father, I just feel so sad that we're unable to do it. Yet I hope
that it's not put off too much in the distance because I've really put my heart into it and
I feel like I've done everything I could. And literally in that moment, I felt like
just kind of a kind of a whoosh of just like a warmth and it said, you're forgiven. Like
your side is done, regardless of whether you're forgiven by this person or whatever happens
on the end of the other party. That does not matter. It's between you and I at this point
and you've done everything you could. And so I also feel like, again, that's using
our agency and it's going to God. You know what I mean? Going straight to God. So I feel
like that's always the answer is number one, our agency, where our heart is and communicating
with God because again, he's not going to have this relationship, you know, the vertical
part or the lateral part. He's never going to force a sealed relationship on another
person who is unworthy or unwilling. So again, it puts it back on us and our agency. And
so I'm just really was grateful for that. I was so grateful that me being forgiven by
God wasn't tied to someone else's choice. That was the thing that I came out of that
with. Now I will say that later we had the conversation was fantastic and things have
been cleared up, but I was just loving that Heavenly Father was like, nope, that didn't
work. You weren't able to meet and so you're still waiting and hanging on that hook. No,
he was like, you've done everything. It is finished. And I just felt so happy.
Maybe, maybe that gives us the chance to say maybe you're impressed to ask the question.
Am I living up to the blessings that this new and everlasting covenant has to offer?
Maybe do like a little dive into the blessings associated with that. And if you feel like
right now you're living, you're the partner that's maybe not living up to your end of
the bargain or you are sealed to somebody that's not, not be so much worried about what
they need to do to change, to fix that, fix that, work on that and on your own as a motivating
factor for them. Their agency is always going to come to play. Your agency is always coming
to play. And I think that's why it's beautiful, but it's also complicated and tricky.
Absolutely. And we're only responsible for our agency.
And the blessings come if you are up at, up holding your end of that, that ceiling power.
Absolutely.
I think that's probably all we need to talk about.
That is.
It's deep.
It is.
Please like take a listen, take a look, take a few looks at it.
And start with a prayer in your heart just to give an honest, you know, look at where
you are and how Heavenly Father sees you in it and if there's something that you could
be doing or just maybe something to reframe something you've seen. I don't know what it
is, but the Lord knows.
Yeah. And as far as we're talking about ceilings, like we're definitely talking pretty specifically
to people who have been endowed and sealed, right?
Right, correct.
But anybody that can do proxy work in the temple, it would be single, divorced, whatever
the case may be, maybe the action item would be to schedule some time to do ceilings proxy.
That's great. I love that.
Because then you can hear the promises that are associated with that multiple times. You
can usually do quite a few proxy ceilings and then you don't quite hear it the day that
you're entering the covenant.
I was just going to say, without the nerves.
You definitely have to go back to somebody else's or do proxy ceilings to actually hear
it all and internalize it. But that seems like an appropriate thing to encourage everybody
to do, just to see all the beautiful blessings that can be attached to this. What's meant
to be a joyous, beautiful thing.
I agree. We're sending so much love to each one listening to this and I hope that you
feel closer to Jesus Christ after listening.
We'll see you next time.