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Welcome to Closer to Christ, a conference where two friends who love Jesus share our

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own approach to studying general conference, and we alight to invite you along this journey

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with us today. We get to go over the talk entitled, The Fruit That Remains, that was

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done by Elder Matthew L. Carpenter of the Seventy in the Saturday evening session. And

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I'm just going to paraphrase what he kicked it off with. He started talking about peaches.

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I'm a fan. So, yes, he talked about how, if you're familiar with peaches, they're beautiful.

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And if they're allowed to ripen on the vine, you've got like 24 hours to eat that thing

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before it starts decaying on you. And that because of that, and his love for them, he

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learned how to preserve them with his mother. And if you follow the laws of preserving fruit,

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then you're able to turn this fruit that can typically only last a day or two into something

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that will last for years. And then he uses that as he says he wants to talk about, like

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the deeper meaning of it, about how the fruit of the everlasting gospel is the covenant

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of marriage and the new and everlasting covenant. And so he's going to be talking about, you

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know, sealing things eternally for those who are willing to live by the law of the new

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and everlasting covenant of marriage. So, did that sum it up?

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Yep, sounds good.

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Succinctly enough?

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Sounds good, Abby.

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What stood out to you that you'd like to share?

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You know, there were a couple of things that stood out to me. There are so many unknowns

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in this topic. And so what I really clung onto were the promises from the prophets and

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the scriptures. And I love when Elder Carpenter said that President Nelson has taught that

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there are two types of bonds that we enter into this eternal marriage covenant. So there's

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the lateral bond between husband and wife, and there's the vertical bond between God.

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To have the blessing of exaltation sealed upon us and remain after this life, we must

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be true to both the lateral and the vertical bonds of the covenant. And I'm a visual

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person and so I do like visualizing that, yeah, this is the one covenant, Abby, that,

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you know, when we go to baptism, it's between us and God. So that would be vertical. When

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we receive our endowment, it's between us and God. When we go to the temple for washing

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anointings, it's the same thing. When we have a marriage, of course, it's between

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man and wife, and then it's also between God. So I love that because you're starting a family.

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It's not just going one way, it's expanding.

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You're building something. And a few of the things you said stood out in a way that made

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me think we're involving more people in this process. It makes it, it can potentially make

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it a little bit more messy and complicated.

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Right.

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So I think as we read this talk and we were studying it individually, he talks about,

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you know, the ideal and then very well aware of the exceptions to the ideal. So I think

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because this is such a sensitive topic, I think he's provided such a wealth of important

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things in this talk that we would suggest reading it. Like, I would approach this talk

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and I would say, you know, like, help me find the joy in the sealing covenant.

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That's great.

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And so if you're living, if you're like, if you're already married, like maybe that'll

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give you some direction on like how to approach your marriage or like what you can do in that

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way. And if that topic hurts your feelings because you haven't found, you know, your

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eternal companion yet at this point, it just kind of stings. It feels a little bit differently.

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Like it looks like something that's being withheld from you. But I love this talk because

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I kind of read it as I read it with those eyes. I read it through the eyes of somebody that

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maybe has gone through a divorce. I've read it through the eyes of somebody who's lost

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his spouse. Like I read it multiple ways and I'm thinking this talk is not really intended

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to bring anything but absolute joy with the idea that you can bind on earth. We have the

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opportunity to bind on earth and that binding will continue to last into heaven. And even

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if the situation is a little bit messy and a little bit complicated, it's because we're

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looking at it from earthly eyes, we don't really get all of the facets of it. And we

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don't have gobs of information on it just past the fact that there's, here's the covenant

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and here's the blessings associated with it.

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Right. I totally agree with that. You know, and I've heard when you're talking about

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that, I've heard so many people that say, well, why is this taught? Why do we talk about

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celestial marriage? Because for some people, it's not, either they feel like it's not something

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that's attainable right then, or it's not something that appeals to them right then.

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And you know, in the last October conference, I really appreciated the words of President

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Oaks where he talked about the sacred privilege of being offered to offer this covenant. And

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he just said that the highest destination, exaltation in this celestial kingdom, is the

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focus of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. So that's why it's taught, so that

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there is an understanding of what is available and then we get to opt into it with our own

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agency. At what level are we able to opt in?

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Yeah, and it's like, even if you're not living the ideal, it doesn't mean that we don't want

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to teach the ideal because it's achievable, because of Jesus Christ and His atonement,

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it is 100% achievable for every one of His children.

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Absolutely.

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Even if it's not in this moment.

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Yes, and eventually. Whenever that timing is going to be. I love that. So if you're reading

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it, if you're reading this talk and it just causes you pain and it makes you feel uncomfortable,

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like that's the prayer in your heart should be, let me know that this is a truth that

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will be mine also at some point.

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That you believe.

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Sooner than later. Just kidding.

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That you believe that it is for you too. All of these wonderful things that are spoken

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about are for you as well. And to ask to receive that witness for yourself, I agree.

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We have to go through a whole series of life and challenges, like marriage is the best

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thing in the world, but it's also the most important thing that I'm doing right now and

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my children, what we're doing, that it's hard.

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Absolutely.

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Like it's going to be the thing that's the most challenging because it's also the promises,

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the most rewards. And so let's just kind of cut to the chase on this. When I think about

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doing proxy temple work, when you get to that point in the temple and you're doing ceilings,

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I'm hoping that you, that we're speaking to an audience that maybe has had an experience

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where they have sealed people together or children to those people, to these proxy work,

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I'm going to call them, they're more than people, they're a family. They're a family

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and that it's just a beautiful thing. It's not complicated. I have no idea how hard their

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lives were on this earth, if they even liked each other. But I felt multiple times when

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I've done ceilings in the temple that they're grateful and that they're happy, that they've

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been sealed.

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And that again, it all falls on them if they choose to receive that.

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Absolutely. I'm not saying that every time that I've done ceilings that it's like, oh

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yeah, they're here with us and they're appreciating this. All I'm saying is that it's so much

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less complicated for them than all of the things we can think about here in this life.

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It makes it a real option.

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I can think of a lot more exceptions to the rule. And so we both agree that we need, we

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are hoping that you're hearing this with the ears that we know that there's like less than

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ideal situations out there, but that we know because of our Savior Jesus Christ, all of

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that will be made perfect.

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Absolutely. And that we're sealed to Christ.

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So, this is the bare minimum, the fact of, we do baptismal covenant, we do baptism, we

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do confirmations, we do initiatory work, we do endowments, we do ceilings, okay? What

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can we tell people about the promises and the blessings that come from the new and everlasting

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covenant of marriage?

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I love that. So there are a few things, right? What's something you can think of? And one

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is, you know, dwelling in God's presence for eternity, together as husband and wife. What's

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something else?

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I think inheriting thrones, kingdoms, principalities, powers, and that you can have seed posterity

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forever.

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And then the biggest one for me is receiving all that God has to give. I want to receive

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all of it. I don't want to be like, I don't want, you know what I'm saying? I don't want

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to hold back.

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I'm glad that you nodded back to President Oakes' talk because I thought the same thing

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that I felt, it's like he was in this very powerful, blunt way and he was talking about,

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this is the standard, but it was, it's achievable to all. So that's why it's not hurtful, even

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if you're not experiencing it in the moment. It's like if you worked your hardest and you

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were doing a project and you put the best work out there. And then after you got the

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project done, they were like, and then here is what you could have, this is what you could

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have done to get an A. Like that's a B project. And you're like, I did my best and you didn't

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tell me what I needed to do to get an A. I'm like, well, now I'm telling you.

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Totally unfair.

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It's just giving you, it's giving you the absolute ideal that can exist.

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I agree. I also love, you know, as you bring up President Oakes' talk from last time, how

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you said we will all be able to be a place where we're happy. I love the word how we

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used abide.

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Yes.

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And that was to...

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Dwell comfortably in the presence of the Lord.

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Yes, just to be comfortable.

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Wherever you are.

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Wherever you are. Yeah. And so we're going to be more than happy with wherever it is

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that we choose to be with our own agency. I'm really not worried about that. Like anytime

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I've left something up to the Lord, He has more than exceeded my expectations. And so

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I really, I would love for that to come through, that I really do believe and trust that He's

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going to make the best of all these situations and we're just going to do our best on this

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side.

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Love that. Let's delve into like some quotes from the talk. How He explained like by what

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power is this marriage sheathing even made available to us on this earth?

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Right. By the Holy Ghost. It says in His divine role as the Holy Spirit of promise, we'll

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seal each ordinance upon those who are faithful to their covenants so that it will be valid

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after mortality. And then this part, having the Holy Ghost seal our ordinance is essential

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if we want to have the promised blessings for all eternity, becoming fruit that remains.

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This is particularly important if we want. I love that part. It doesn't talk of like,

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it's not saying you have to do X, Y, Z. It's saying if you want this, this is what we do.

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And that totally reminds me of the way that I liked to parent. Like you talk in positives

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instead of you don't get to do this if, but if you want, this is what you can do. Do you

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know what I'm saying? So that's a type of way that really that type of speaking and

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that type of teaching really resonates with my heart. Like if you want this, then this

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is what you do. It makes sense to me.

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And as you were speaking, I was thinking if my eternal companion is equally invested in

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our marriage as I am, at the beginning, in the middle, and at the end, then we're both

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showing that we want that sealing to perpetuate into the eternities. We've both lived up to

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that and so then that will happen versus like somebody that thinks, you know, maybe they

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put the wool over somebody's eyes and they act like the one person, they get sealed and

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they think that's got me locked into this situation forever. And then they use that

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as like ammunition. And it's a painful thing. And so then you start talking about

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eternities and these ceilings and you believe in it so deeply that you're like, I'm stuck

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with this for the rest of my life.

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Which is absolutely not the case. I love when President Oaks talked about this as well.

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Elder Carpenter quotes him from the October 2023 conference. He says, and this is probably

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my favorite part of the entire talk. He says, we also know that God will force no one into

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a sealing relationship against his or her will. That's everything. The blessings of

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a sealed relationship are assured for all who keep their covenants, but never by forcing

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a sealed relationship on another person who is either unwilling or unworthy. I feel like

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that's everything right there. Like, cause that really answers every question that you

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could have.

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I agree. It answers so much. And especially if you take this talk with the, with whatever

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eyes you need to see them, like whatever comfort you need to see, like the, I just, I worry

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the way, the few things that he said in this talk, it makes me worried that he's encountered

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people in his ministry that have been like, more like scared about the sealing power because

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they don't want to be locked into something that's unhealthy and makes them unhappy. There's

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no way that that reconciles with God's law.

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It's all about happiness and joy. And the sealing gives me absolute joy. Like I love

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the idea of being bound to my family, my posterity forward and my, what do you call them? What

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do you call that behind you? Ancestors. I like the idea of being linked to all of them

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and however tightly they want that link to be. But you know, those ordinance have been

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put in place that make it possible.

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Yeah. You know, when you were talking, Abby, this just came to my mind. So when we're talking

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about all the different, so the Lord has established what the standard is, right? And we also know

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that because we're human and because each person has their own agency, there are going

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to be a million different ways and scenarios that this looks, correct? This just came to

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mind. So a couple of years ago, I think everyone will remember President Nelson asked us to

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be a peacemaker and to think of maybe something that had gone in your life with a relationship

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with someone and to have a conversation or do whatever to clear that up and to reconcile

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it. Yeah, to reconcile. Put it in the past. Yes. So I had been working on that. There

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was a situation and we had been working on it. And I had, I mean, I'd been working for

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months and months and months and on forgiving and on asking for forgiveness in my mind,

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yet I wasn't able to meet with this person yet. And then the day came, we made an appointment,

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the day came and this person wasn't able to do it. So I was heartbroken because I had

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looked so forward to it and I had put a lot of work into it. And that night I was praying

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and I was like, Heavenly Father, I just feel so sad that we're unable to do it. Yet I hope

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that it's not put off too much in the distance because I've really put my heart into it and

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I feel like I've done everything I could. And literally in that moment, I felt like

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just kind of a kind of a whoosh of just like a warmth and it said, you're forgiven. Like

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your side is done, regardless of whether you're forgiven by this person or whatever happens

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on the end of the other party. That does not matter. It's between you and I at this point

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and you've done everything you could. And so I also feel like, again, that's using

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our agency and it's going to God. You know what I mean? Going straight to God. So I feel

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like that's always the answer is number one, our agency, where our heart is and communicating

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with God because again, he's not going to have this relationship, you know, the vertical

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part or the lateral part. He's never going to force a sealed relationship on another

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person who is unworthy or unwilling. So again, it puts it back on us and our agency. And

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so I'm just really was grateful for that. I was so grateful that me being forgiven by

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God wasn't tied to someone else's choice. That was the thing that I came out of that

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with. Now I will say that later we had the conversation was fantastic and things have

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been cleared up, but I was just loving that Heavenly Father was like, nope, that didn't

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work. You weren't able to meet and so you're still waiting and hanging on that hook. No,

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he was like, you've done everything. It is finished. And I just felt so happy.

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Maybe, maybe that gives us the chance to say maybe you're impressed to ask the question.

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Am I living up to the blessings that this new and everlasting covenant has to offer?

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Maybe do like a little dive into the blessings associated with that. And if you feel like

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right now you're living, you're the partner that's maybe not living up to your end of

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the bargain or you are sealed to somebody that's not, not be so much worried about what

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they need to do to change, to fix that, fix that, work on that and on your own as a motivating

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factor for them. Their agency is always going to come to play. Your agency is always coming

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to play. And I think that's why it's beautiful, but it's also complicated and tricky.

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Absolutely. And we're only responsible for our agency.

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And the blessings come if you are up at, up holding your end of that, that ceiling power.

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Absolutely.

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I think that's probably all we need to talk about.

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That is.

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It's deep.

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It is.

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Please like take a listen, take a look, take a few looks at it.

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And start with a prayer in your heart just to give an honest, you know, look at where

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you are and how Heavenly Father sees you in it and if there's something that you could

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be doing or just maybe something to reframe something you've seen. I don't know what it

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is, but the Lord knows.

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Yeah. And as far as we're talking about ceilings, like we're definitely talking pretty specifically

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to people who have been endowed and sealed, right?

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Right, correct.

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But anybody that can do proxy work in the temple, it would be single, divorced, whatever

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the case may be, maybe the action item would be to schedule some time to do ceilings proxy.

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That's great. I love that.

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Because then you can hear the promises that are associated with that multiple times. You

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can usually do quite a few proxy ceilings and then you don't quite hear it the day that

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you're entering the covenant.

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I was just going to say, without the nerves.

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You definitely have to go back to somebody else's or do proxy ceilings to actually hear

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it all and internalize it. But that seems like an appropriate thing to encourage everybody

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to do, just to see all the beautiful blessings that can be attached to this. What's meant

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to be a joyous, beautiful thing.

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I agree. We're sending so much love to each one listening to this and I hope that you

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feel closer to Jesus Christ after listening.

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We'll see you next time.