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Welcome to Closer to Christ, your general conference, where two friends share our own

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approach to studying general conference. We're so glad to have you with us here today as

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we take a deeper look at a talk called Faithful to the End by Sister Andrea Yunos-Spineos,

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and I apologize if I said that terribly. Help me, Amy. Spineos? I think you say that way

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better than I would have. So yes, she's a second counselor in the Young Women General

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Presidency. The talk's titled Faithful to the End. So let me cut into, like, the gist

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of what her talk was about. Sounds good. She starts by helping us think of David as he's

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preparing to go up against Goliath, and we do know the way the story goes that he's able

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to battle the giant and kill him with one stone, but even though that was the case,

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that he was prepared with five stones. And so it made me think quick back to the talk

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for the strength of the youth and how the stripling warriors teach us a lesson. The

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mothers taught them and their fathers prepared them, and we kind of talked briefly about

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like what things that as parents we can put into our children's satchel is that preparing

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for war in real life, and then actually the war that Satan is going to...the battle that

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we have to be prepared for to fight against Satan. So with this talk using David as the

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backdrop, the story of David and Goliath as the backdrop, she's going to teach us, you

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know, what can we do to prepare as we face the world. So what if each of David's stone

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represented a strength that we need to be triumphant in our lives? What could those

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five stones be? And then she's going to hit on five things. Should I restate what they

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were? The first one is the stone of my love of God, or for God. The second stone of my

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faith is our Savior, Jesus Christ. Then we have the stone of the knowledge of my true

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identity. Fourth is the stone of my daily repentance, and the fifth stone is my access

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to God's power. So let's ask a question.

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Yeah, I do love how she thinks of it in a very tangible way. We're already thinking

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of stones, and so it makes the, I shouldn't say makes, but it just gives a tangibility

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to the story in that we all know what a stone is. You can pick it up, you can feel it, you

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can heft it, and we know that you use that as part of your warring or whatever it is,

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right? It is your battle.

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Yeah.

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So, because the scripture story is totally meant to make us think, okay, I'm David in

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the story, I'm going to go up to battle. My Goliath in this moment is a drug addiction

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or, I don't know, you can think, you can, like, whatever the battle is that you're facing

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in that moment, that's your Goliath. It seems insurmountable. It seems much bigger than

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yours, person, than what are we going to throw at it to get it.

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When it changes, what you throw at it sometimes can change with what the Goliath is, right?

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If the Goliath changes, then you're going to need specific things to throw at it.

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Right.

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So, I like the way that you change.

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Which makes it helpful to have all five stones in preparation.

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Absolutely, it does.

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And then knowing, having the discernment to know which one you're going to pull out to

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make that first attempt to throw at it. And maybe, would it be the end of the world if

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it took two or three stones? The great thing is that you had all five prepared.

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Right.

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Like, I don't think it's like lack of faith if you're like, it took more than one stone.

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It's such a beautiful story, and it's teaching us a deeper lesson. There's definitely some

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layers to that story.

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Oh, absolutely.

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But, well, how was David victorious in this fight?

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You know what, for me, I love how, first of all, we know as a younger child, he fought

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a lion, he also fought a bear. And so, from his own experience, he knew that God would

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deliver him. And to David, the cause of God was the most important cause. And in verse

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32, he says, David said moreover, the Lord that delivered me out of the paw of the lion

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and out of the paw of the bear, he will deliver me out of the hand of the Philistine. And

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Saul said unto David, Go, and the Lord be with thee. And then in verse 37, it says,

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And all this assembly shall know that the Lord saveth not with sword or spear, for the

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battle is the Lord's, and he will give them unto your hands.

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I love that, that he reminded, that the scriptures remind us that when we let God fight our battles,

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we're always going to win.

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I love that. This made me think how good it was to have some preparation, some battles

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like against, maybe it was, I don't think it'd be that normal to fight against a lion

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or a bear, but apparently that wasn't that weird of a thing. Like, in preparation for

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what the harder battle would be, that it was going to be like a Goliath, a giant man.

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And with a huge, a huge audience, right? Probably the bear and the lion.

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We're a little more private. Yeah, you're out hunting, you want it to be quiet, you

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don't have a big entourage. And so I think this is a good opportunity to think, if you've

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battled a Goliath in your life and you've come out victorious, that you can stop and

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take a minute to think like, what were the little battles that he helped me, or what

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was the way that he helped me prepare those stones to attack the bigger one that came

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my way? Because that's a beautiful way to see the hand of God in your life. Right? So

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Amy, a couple of episodes back, we talked about, it was Elder Cook's talk?

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I think it was. Yes.

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One with Christ, because he had so many cross references and he talked about the Calvinist

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theology that was predominant at the time. It was like, if you've been, like if we've

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said you are, you're going to be predestined to heaven, then nothing that you do from that

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point of predestination, not murder, not any other sin, nothing could change the fact that

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you're, that's not going to change the fact that you were predestined for heaven. So our

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choice is always play a role and lead us to our eternal destiny. Dave is an example to

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us of how complex we are as beings, right? Yeah.

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This is a beautiful story in David's life. It like highlights, he made a good choice.

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He came out victorious, but I mean, if we're going off the Calvinist theory, we'd say like,

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he did that one thing and he's saved and nothing that he does aside from that is going to change

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that fact, even though he had a lot of life left to live. Right? His life does take a

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different turn. I'm not saying whether David saved or not. I'm just saying, you know, that

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is an idea that makes you think that what we do, that our choices don't matter at a

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certain point. Like they only matter until you get that past, that stamp that you're

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going to heaven and then you can do whatever you want. That doesn't seem realistic. That

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doesn't seem like God's way. Because one of the principles of our faith is that we endure

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to the end. Right.

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So our choice and our opportunity, there are many and one choice can totally change the

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trajectory of our lives. So like, Phyllis, what happens later in David's life?

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Right. So the story of later in life, David chose to fight another battle with much different

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stones, if we're going to take the same thing that Sister Spinaeus took. Here are some possibilities

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of the stones that he may have chosen after committing number one adultery with Uriah's

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wife and then sending Uriah to the front line to fight the battle so that he would die.

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Right? Just some thoughts that I had were, you know, some of the stones that he was fighting

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with at that point was the stone of adultery, the stone of pride, stone of selfishness,

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stone of covering up sin and the stone of murder. So those are completely different

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stones than what he was using at the beginning. Definitely, he was fighting his own battle.

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Whereas before, it was very evident that he put his trust in God and he let God fight

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the battle for him.

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In the previous scripture you shared, we talked about how God, like the cause of God was his

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most important cause.

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Totally.

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Like what changed in David's mind to make his actions turn so differently?

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I don't know. But I feel like it's just such, you know, the scriptures are so wonderful

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because they give us a very black and white contrast type of things. It's very easy to

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see what's happening in this because it is so black and white from when he was the bear,

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the lion Goliath to where now he's with, you know, Uriah, this whole story. And we're all

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complex beings as well. This same stuff happens with us on a day to day basis. It may not

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swing the pendulum may not swing as drastically, but I just think it's a really good invitation

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and opportunity for us to look inward and say, what stones am I using with this battle?

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Like, am I choosing pride? Am I choosing the Lord? Am I choosing faith in God? Do you know

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what I'm saying? And just kind of fine tune that because it changes all the time.

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Totally changes. But still, there was some fordination, some predestination for the Son

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of God to come through this lineage, right?

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Yes. David.

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Right. And that happened. It's not like sinning is going to like change everything. I don't

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really want to say it that way. I guess what I'm saying is,

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Christ still came through the line, the lineage. That wasn't changed. And it's great too, because

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that goes kind of the second article of faith that man will be punished for their own sins.

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David, whatever is going on with him, he's being punished for that and he'll have to

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just, you know, talk with the Lord about that. But yeah, Christ coming through that line,

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that wasn't impacted in any way. It didn't thwart God's plan.

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Yeah, the overall plan. And I would say, I don't know enough about Calvinist theology

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past what I delved into when I was looking at Elder Cook's talk, but it's like saying

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if you, you know, you're predestined for heaven and then nothing can change that. Maybe the

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same idea was like if they stamped somebody as a sinner and that they're going to inherit

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hell, that there's nothing they can do. No good deed would change the trajectory of that.

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And so certainly David could have started good and then had this, this patch of problems,

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but you know, who's to say what the end is because there's so many more chances for fixing

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those things. So I don't like the idea of like, absolutely, like, you know, even when

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I just said absolutely, I'm just saying, I think it's more of a beautiful thing rather

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than thinking like, oh, I've done the things that I need to be saved and then nothing else

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can go wrong. I actually more prefer the idea of like, if it's such a good thing, keep doing

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it or if it's a bad thing that there's still opportunities to change. So anyway, again,

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the complex beings, right? Yeah. Like how would you, how would you explain the swing

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and his choice and the consequences, these actions that led to? Yeah, you know, so I'm

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a sucker for laws. I totally dived into the laws. Last year. Yes, I decided to learn more

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about the laws. And I really, my prayer was, I wanted Heavenly Father to help to show me

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what law I was living at that time. And at a certain point, quick backtrack, did this

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spark after the prophets had been celestial? This part where it said, the prophet said,

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learn about God and how he works. And I was like, well, okay, I want to learn more about

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him. And so in my mind, there are a million ways you could come to that, right? Or you

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could come at that. Mine was, he follows laws, and so I want to find out what laws they are.

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I want to learn more about them. I want to experience them. I want to be able to recognize

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them, right? So I just decided at a certain point, I was like, oh, wow. So my intent and

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my choices, like I said, Heavenly Father, at this point, now this is a little bit scary

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for me, but I said, at this point, I am only interested in living a higher and holier law,

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which for me is a celestial law. Like I'm not interested in the laws of man. I don't

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want any part of it. So help me to know, like as I pray each day and as I kind of like course

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correct, you know, each morning or each night in my prayers, help me to know where I'm off

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and what law I'm living. And if all of a sudden I'm living a law of jealousy, then I want

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to change that into the law of gratitude. Do you know what I mean? So I just loved looking

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at it that way.

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I do remember it because it's been at least a solid year. That was more like six months

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ago, the talk, right? So did that hit when he said to think celestial? Did that hit because

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you'd already done the pre study of the law?

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I feel like all yes, Abby, the way you just said that, I literally feel like if you look

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back at President Nelson, I'm not even talking since he's been in the apostleship, but since

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he's been the prophet, each talk he's given to us, I get giddy when I even talk about

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this or think about this, every single one is literally step by step. And he's teaching

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us like, if we do the thing, the first thing that he asks, the next one by the time it

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comes out, like we're ready to just hit the ground running, like he said, tie your shoes

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and take your vitamin pills, like that for sure is what I felt happening. And so yes,

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I was ready to go. And I was so excited to hear that.

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Awesome. Okay, I cut you off. We're talking about the laws that you identified in David's

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life.

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Yes. Okay, so if we want to talk about laws, as far as the earlier part of this law, the

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law, just like she said with the stones, but let's switch the word stones for the law of,

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right? So he was living the law of love for God. He was living the law of faith in the

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Savior Jesus Christ, the law of the knowledge of true identity. He was living the law of

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daily repentance, which that is so huge, right? Because that helps us to course correct every

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single day and to kind of self-reflect with Heavenly Father, what laws am I living? And

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then number five would be, he was living the law of access to God's power. And that is

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huge because he was keeping his covenants, he was keeping true to his identity. So because

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of that, God was able to bless David as he lived under these celestial laws. And the

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blessings were great and they were even miraculous. And that's number five too, the access of

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God's power. I feel like when we live a higher and holier law, that's when God is able to

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give us miracles. If you look, miracles don't fall under the laws of man. Like you pay your

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taxes and you know, don't go to jail or whatever it is, or you put gas in your car and you

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don't run out of gas. Do you know what I mean? But there aren't miracles as far as the law

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of man goes. And so that's why I think living the higher and holier law is beautiful and

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amazing and for me, exhilarating and exciting because I know that a good Father, which Heavenly

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Father is, is going to bless me with whatever miracle he sees. Do I get to dictate what

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miracle it's going to be? Absolutely not. Am I faithful and do I know that he's going

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to provide the things I need in my progression? Absolutely.

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But like the follow through question that comes to my mind, if you said this and really

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said it, I'd be like, so like expound on that. So if we're talking about like the law of

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tithing, so it's a God's law, not a law of man. Oh yeah, that's God's law. It's a 10%

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payment on your increase and then the blessings that you reap after don't really make sense

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mathematically on paper. Exactly. And what would they call it? God math? Yeah. Because

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somehow it works out and on paper it doesn't make any sense. And it's not like it's always

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going to be financially right. Like we've kind of seen that. Sometimes it is, but other

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times it's in other ways. But either way, he gives you exactly what you need and he

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doesn't leave you high and dry. I love that. So if you can keep carrying your

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thoughts on, you identified the laws that David partook of in the younger years of his

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life and then like, let's switch gears. He made some life decisions he started making.

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Different laws, right? What were those laws, would you say? Okay, so what would one of

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them be? Oh, I guess we already talked about it. So before we talked and said it was stones,

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but now the law of adultery, the law of pride, the law of selfishness, the law of covering

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up sin and the law of murder. And this is what she said in the talk. I love this quote.

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She says, as I studied the story, I reminded that David lived the overarching law of, quote,

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God will fight my battles. Sorry, yeah, that is not her quote. I said

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that right. This is me. As I study the story, I reminded that David lived the overarching

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law of, and now quote, God will fight my battles. And God blessed him with the accompanying

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blessings tied to that law as he lived it. He lived it with the bear and the lion and

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with Goliath, like we said before. And when David stopped living the law of God will fight

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my battles, God was not able to bless him with his accompanying law. So when David put

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your eye on the front lines, David was fighting David's battles and he was not blessed with

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God's accompanying law. He lived man's law and was met with the reward of man's law.

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It's like, almost like he, when he, when he was living in the ability to access God's

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power. He had it.

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I think he was so delusional to think he could make other life decisions and still access

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that power because he had experienced it before.

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Oh my gosh. Yes, you know what? So probably there may have been a point, like if I were,

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if I were the adversary thinking, how am I going to get David? It may have been, and

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this is absolutely just a thought when you were talking. Maybe there was a point where

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he was like, I can reproduce this on my own. You know what I mean?

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Definitely. Because he's like, right, the bear, the lion, Goliath, you can totally do

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this.

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He reminded him of those experiences in a way that's like, regardless of the way you've

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been living this life, you've had access to his power and so go for it. I dare you.

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Totally.

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That was what St. was trying to do to our Savior Jesus Christ when he was fasting for

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40 days and 40 nights. He wanted to take something temporal like eating food and talk our Savior

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into using the power that was in him to fulfill a manmade, a temporal thing. And so I can

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definitely see the...

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And he even promised him something that wasn't even his to give in the first place. Do you

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know what I mean?

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Absolutely.

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Yes, he twists it and how messed up to do something like that when someone's so hungry,

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that changes everything, right?

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Yeah. So I'm glad that this talk landed and it gave you a chance to think back on stuff

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that you've studied in the past about the laws and the blessings that are kind of predicated

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upon obedience to those laws. Can you say, where did you find the best resources for

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that study that you did?

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You know what? I just prayed and made a list and literally, my mom gave me a book for Christmas,

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was The Law of Love. So I'm like, oh, there's the first one. A friend was texting me and

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said, you have to, or you don't have to, but she was like, this book's fantastic. It's

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The Physical Laws of Light. And I was like, you've got to be kidding me. So I put that

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on my next one. I really did just have an open prayer and when things crossed my desk,

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so to speak, sounded like it was right. And then also, I will say the culminating event

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was in October of that year when President Oaks gave the talk about the celestial...

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The degrees of glory.

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Yes, the degrees of glory. And you're able to be blessed by whatever law you're living.

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That whole thing, it was like a culminating event. And I was like, yes, yes, yes.

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That paired with the prophets think celestial. It was like, we're always like, I'm doing

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this thing in life and I'm hoping that I inherit the celestial kingdom. And they're like, that's

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not what we've been trying to tell you. We're telling you today, you can live celestially.

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Absolutely.

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Or you can also live terrestrial or terrestrial.

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Whatever you choose. Whatever you want.

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But it shouldn't be such a surprise to you that the degree of glory that you inherit

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looks far different from the one that you're living. Because you were comfortably living

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that in the moment. He would assume that you want to live that eternally.

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Totally.

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So I do remember you and Gail, I think Gail was like way into studying the laws at that

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time. And for me, it felt a little bit overwhelming. And so I'll say the more bite size suggestion

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was when they were going to take a deep dive into it, I thought I will focus on the five

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laws that are laid out in the temple.

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Oh, perfect.

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And so then you can open that. If you haven't been in doubt in the temple, you can find

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what those laws are right in the preparing for the temple. You can see what laws you're

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preparing to say that you'll abide by. And then if you have been in doubt, like sit in

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a session and think, you know, what can you teach me about the way that I'm living these

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laws or which ones, which one can I like really focus on and pay more attention to?

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I love the Abbey. It was so laid out. That was another thing.

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It's five there too.

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I know. So that was no coincidence. I think she was pointing us really to the temple in

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this talk also.

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And I loved it too, because the year that I decided to, okay, learn about God and how

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He works, I feel like, you know, it was the beginning of that year when it was just more

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crystal. The things that we promised to do, the five laws didn't change, but the way they

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were presented changed a little bit. So at least for me, it became so much more clear.

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And I think part of having the words there also helps to crystallize it in my mind.

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If you're a visual person, it pairs it with, yeah, I agree.

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It's beautiful.

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Yeah, because they do kind of hit a little bit differently, because it's almost like

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it's so simple. It's so simple and it's laid out. And in thinking through the temple and

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through this talk, it's like, would you live a better life if you just picked up one of

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those laws and started executing that and doing, like fulfilling that law to the best

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of your ability? Absolutely.

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Would it come in handy? Would it grant you access to God's power? Absolutely. But what

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say ye if you had all five of them in your pack? You know, not guessing what things are

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going to come your way. And really, in the way the temple goes, it's not like you can

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say, I'm going to do that one, but I'm not going to so much care about like the law of

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chastity or tithing. You can't handpick which one you're not going to do. Well in advance,

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you know what you're going in there to promise to do. And what you get on the other end of

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it is like a celestial way of thinking. You can think things through. You can live celestial

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now because you're abiding by the celestial law now.

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Agreed.

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So any closing thoughts? Any challenges you want to present to the audience?

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That, you know, for a challenge of this week as you recognize consequences or current circumstances

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that are in your life right now, ask Heavenly Father to show you what law you're living.

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And it starts with honesty and awareness and a desire to live higher and holier laws. Laws

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of love rather than anger, forgiveness over grudges, repentance over pride, responsibility

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over blame, faith in Jesus Christ over fear, and trust in God over man. That's what I would

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leave.

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I think it's perfect.

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All right. Thanks so much for being with us today. We hope you have a great week.

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We'll catch you next time.

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See ya.