Welcome to Closer to Christ, your general conference, where two friends share our own
approach to studying general conference. We're so glad to have you with us here today as
we take a deeper look at a talk called Faithful to the End by Sister Andrea Yunos-Spineos,
and I apologize if I said that terribly. Help me, Amy. Spineos? I think you say that way
better than I would have. So yes, she's a second counselor in the Young Women General
Presidency. The talk's titled Faithful to the End. So let me cut into, like, the gist
of what her talk was about. Sounds good. She starts by helping us think of David as he's
preparing to go up against Goliath, and we do know the way the story goes that he's able
to battle the giant and kill him with one stone, but even though that was the case,
that he was prepared with five stones. And so it made me think quick back to the talk
for the strength of the youth and how the stripling warriors teach us a lesson. The
mothers taught them and their fathers prepared them, and we kind of talked briefly about
like what things that as parents we can put into our children's satchel is that preparing
for war in real life, and then actually the war that Satan is going to...the battle that
we have to be prepared for to fight against Satan. So with this talk using David as the
backdrop, the story of David and Goliath as the backdrop, she's going to teach us, you
know, what can we do to prepare as we face the world. So what if each of David's stone
represented a strength that we need to be triumphant in our lives? What could those
five stones be? And then she's going to hit on five things. Should I restate what they
were? The first one is the stone of my love of God, or for God. The second stone of my
faith is our Savior, Jesus Christ. Then we have the stone of the knowledge of my true
identity. Fourth is the stone of my daily repentance, and the fifth stone is my access
to God's power. So let's ask a question.
Yeah, I do love how she thinks of it in a very tangible way. We're already thinking
of stones, and so it makes the, I shouldn't say makes, but it just gives a tangibility
to the story in that we all know what a stone is. You can pick it up, you can feel it, you
can heft it, and we know that you use that as part of your warring or whatever it is,
right? It is your battle.
Yeah.
So, because the scripture story is totally meant to make us think, okay, I'm David in
the story, I'm going to go up to battle. My Goliath in this moment is a drug addiction
or, I don't know, you can think, you can, like, whatever the battle is that you're facing
in that moment, that's your Goliath. It seems insurmountable. It seems much bigger than
yours, person, than what are we going to throw at it to get it.
When it changes, what you throw at it sometimes can change with what the Goliath is, right?
If the Goliath changes, then you're going to need specific things to throw at it.
Right.
So, I like the way that you change.
Which makes it helpful to have all five stones in preparation.
Absolutely, it does.
And then knowing, having the discernment to know which one you're going to pull out to
make that first attempt to throw at it. And maybe, would it be the end of the world if
it took two or three stones? The great thing is that you had all five prepared.
Right.
Like, I don't think it's like lack of faith if you're like, it took more than one stone.
It's such a beautiful story, and it's teaching us a deeper lesson. There's definitely some
layers to that story.
Oh, absolutely.
But, well, how was David victorious in this fight?
You know what, for me, I love how, first of all, we know as a younger child, he fought
a lion, he also fought a bear. And so, from his own experience, he knew that God would
deliver him. And to David, the cause of God was the most important cause. And in verse
32, he says, David said moreover, the Lord that delivered me out of the paw of the lion
and out of the paw of the bear, he will deliver me out of the hand of the Philistine. And
Saul said unto David, Go, and the Lord be with thee. And then in verse 37, it says,
And all this assembly shall know that the Lord saveth not with sword or spear, for the
battle is the Lord's, and he will give them unto your hands.
I love that, that he reminded, that the scriptures remind us that when we let God fight our battles,
we're always going to win.
I love that. This made me think how good it was to have some preparation, some battles
like against, maybe it was, I don't think it'd be that normal to fight against a lion
or a bear, but apparently that wasn't that weird of a thing. Like, in preparation for
what the harder battle would be, that it was going to be like a Goliath, a giant man.
And with a huge, a huge audience, right? Probably the bear and the lion.
We're a little more private. Yeah, you're out hunting, you want it to be quiet, you
don't have a big entourage. And so I think this is a good opportunity to think, if you've
battled a Goliath in your life and you've come out victorious, that you can stop and
take a minute to think like, what were the little battles that he helped me, or what
was the way that he helped me prepare those stones to attack the bigger one that came
my way? Because that's a beautiful way to see the hand of God in your life. Right? So
Amy, a couple of episodes back, we talked about, it was Elder Cook's talk?
I think it was. Yes.
One with Christ, because he had so many cross references and he talked about the Calvinist
theology that was predominant at the time. It was like, if you've been, like if we've
said you are, you're going to be predestined to heaven, then nothing that you do from that
point of predestination, not murder, not any other sin, nothing could change the fact that
you're, that's not going to change the fact that you were predestined for heaven. So our
choice is always play a role and lead us to our eternal destiny. Dave is an example to
us of how complex we are as beings, right? Yeah.
This is a beautiful story in David's life. It like highlights, he made a good choice.
He came out victorious, but I mean, if we're going off the Calvinist theory, we'd say like,
he did that one thing and he's saved and nothing that he does aside from that is going to change
that fact, even though he had a lot of life left to live. Right? His life does take a
different turn. I'm not saying whether David saved or not. I'm just saying, you know, that
is an idea that makes you think that what we do, that our choices don't matter at a
certain point. Like they only matter until you get that past, that stamp that you're
going to heaven and then you can do whatever you want. That doesn't seem realistic. That
doesn't seem like God's way. Because one of the principles of our faith is that we endure
to the end. Right.
So our choice and our opportunity, there are many and one choice can totally change the
trajectory of our lives. So like, Phyllis, what happens later in David's life?
Right. So the story of later in life, David chose to fight another battle with much different
stones, if we're going to take the same thing that Sister Spinaeus took. Here are some possibilities
of the stones that he may have chosen after committing number one adultery with Uriah's
wife and then sending Uriah to the front line to fight the battle so that he would die.
Right? Just some thoughts that I had were, you know, some of the stones that he was fighting
with at that point was the stone of adultery, the stone of pride, stone of selfishness,
stone of covering up sin and the stone of murder. So those are completely different
stones than what he was using at the beginning. Definitely, he was fighting his own battle.
Whereas before, it was very evident that he put his trust in God and he let God fight
the battle for him.
In the previous scripture you shared, we talked about how God, like the cause of God was his
most important cause.
Totally.
Like what changed in David's mind to make his actions turn so differently?
I don't know. But I feel like it's just such, you know, the scriptures are so wonderful
because they give us a very black and white contrast type of things. It's very easy to
see what's happening in this because it is so black and white from when he was the bear,
the lion Goliath to where now he's with, you know, Uriah, this whole story. And we're all
complex beings as well. This same stuff happens with us on a day to day basis. It may not
swing the pendulum may not swing as drastically, but I just think it's a really good invitation
and opportunity for us to look inward and say, what stones am I using with this battle?
Like, am I choosing pride? Am I choosing the Lord? Am I choosing faith in God? Do you know
what I'm saying? And just kind of fine tune that because it changes all the time.
Totally changes. But still, there was some fordination, some predestination for the Son
of God to come through this lineage, right?
Yes. David.
Right. And that happened. It's not like sinning is going to like change everything. I don't
really want to say it that way. I guess what I'm saying is,
Christ still came through the line, the lineage. That wasn't changed. And it's great too, because
that goes kind of the second article of faith that man will be punished for their own sins.
David, whatever is going on with him, he's being punished for that and he'll have to
just, you know, talk with the Lord about that. But yeah, Christ coming through that line,
that wasn't impacted in any way. It didn't thwart God's plan.
Yeah, the overall plan. And I would say, I don't know enough about Calvinist theology
past what I delved into when I was looking at Elder Cook's talk, but it's like saying
if you, you know, you're predestined for heaven and then nothing can change that. Maybe the
same idea was like if they stamped somebody as a sinner and that they're going to inherit
hell, that there's nothing they can do. No good deed would change the trajectory of that.
And so certainly David could have started good and then had this, this patch of problems,
but you know, who's to say what the end is because there's so many more chances for fixing
those things. So I don't like the idea of like, absolutely, like, you know, even when
I just said absolutely, I'm just saying, I think it's more of a beautiful thing rather
than thinking like, oh, I've done the things that I need to be saved and then nothing else
can go wrong. I actually more prefer the idea of like, if it's such a good thing, keep doing
it or if it's a bad thing that there's still opportunities to change. So anyway, again,
the complex beings, right? Yeah. Like how would you, how would you explain the swing
and his choice and the consequences, these actions that led to? Yeah, you know, so I'm
a sucker for laws. I totally dived into the laws. Last year. Yes, I decided to learn more
about the laws. And I really, my prayer was, I wanted Heavenly Father to help to show me
what law I was living at that time. And at a certain point, quick backtrack, did this
spark after the prophets had been celestial? This part where it said, the prophet said,
learn about God and how he works. And I was like, well, okay, I want to learn more about
him. And so in my mind, there are a million ways you could come to that, right? Or you
could come at that. Mine was, he follows laws, and so I want to find out what laws they are.
I want to learn more about them. I want to experience them. I want to be able to recognize
them, right? So I just decided at a certain point, I was like, oh, wow. So my intent and
my choices, like I said, Heavenly Father, at this point, now this is a little bit scary
for me, but I said, at this point, I am only interested in living a higher and holier law,
which for me is a celestial law. Like I'm not interested in the laws of man. I don't
want any part of it. So help me to know, like as I pray each day and as I kind of like course
correct, you know, each morning or each night in my prayers, help me to know where I'm off
and what law I'm living. And if all of a sudden I'm living a law of jealousy, then I want
to change that into the law of gratitude. Do you know what I mean? So I just loved looking
at it that way.
I do remember it because it's been at least a solid year. That was more like six months
ago, the talk, right? So did that hit when he said to think celestial? Did that hit because
you'd already done the pre study of the law?
I feel like all yes, Abby, the way you just said that, I literally feel like if you look
back at President Nelson, I'm not even talking since he's been in the apostleship, but since
he's been the prophet, each talk he's given to us, I get giddy when I even talk about
this or think about this, every single one is literally step by step. And he's teaching
us like, if we do the thing, the first thing that he asks, the next one by the time it
comes out, like we're ready to just hit the ground running, like he said, tie your shoes
and take your vitamin pills, like that for sure is what I felt happening. And so yes,
I was ready to go. And I was so excited to hear that.
Awesome. Okay, I cut you off. We're talking about the laws that you identified in David's
life.
Yes. Okay, so if we want to talk about laws, as far as the earlier part of this law, the
law, just like she said with the stones, but let's switch the word stones for the law of,
right? So he was living the law of love for God. He was living the law of faith in the
Savior Jesus Christ, the law of the knowledge of true identity. He was living the law of
daily repentance, which that is so huge, right? Because that helps us to course correct every
single day and to kind of self-reflect with Heavenly Father, what laws am I living? And
then number five would be, he was living the law of access to God's power. And that is
huge because he was keeping his covenants, he was keeping true to his identity. So because
of that, God was able to bless David as he lived under these celestial laws. And the
blessings were great and they were even miraculous. And that's number five too, the access of
God's power. I feel like when we live a higher and holier law, that's when God is able to
give us miracles. If you look, miracles don't fall under the laws of man. Like you pay your
taxes and you know, don't go to jail or whatever it is, or you put gas in your car and you
don't run out of gas. Do you know what I mean? But there aren't miracles as far as the law
of man goes. And so that's why I think living the higher and holier law is beautiful and
amazing and for me, exhilarating and exciting because I know that a good Father, which Heavenly
Father is, is going to bless me with whatever miracle he sees. Do I get to dictate what
miracle it's going to be? Absolutely not. Am I faithful and do I know that he's going
to provide the things I need in my progression? Absolutely.
But like the follow through question that comes to my mind, if you said this and really
said it, I'd be like, so like expound on that. So if we're talking about like the law of
tithing, so it's a God's law, not a law of man. Oh yeah, that's God's law. It's a 10%
payment on your increase and then the blessings that you reap after don't really make sense
mathematically on paper. Exactly. And what would they call it? God math? Yeah. Because
somehow it works out and on paper it doesn't make any sense. And it's not like it's always
going to be financially right. Like we've kind of seen that. Sometimes it is, but other
times it's in other ways. But either way, he gives you exactly what you need and he
doesn't leave you high and dry. I love that. So if you can keep carrying your
thoughts on, you identified the laws that David partook of in the younger years of his
life and then like, let's switch gears. He made some life decisions he started making.
Different laws, right? What were those laws, would you say? Okay, so what would one of
them be? Oh, I guess we already talked about it. So before we talked and said it was stones,
but now the law of adultery, the law of pride, the law of selfishness, the law of covering
up sin and the law of murder. And this is what she said in the talk. I love this quote.
She says, as I studied the story, I reminded that David lived the overarching law of, quote,
God will fight my battles. Sorry, yeah, that is not her quote. I said
that right. This is me. As I study the story, I reminded that David lived the overarching
law of, and now quote, God will fight my battles. And God blessed him with the accompanying
blessings tied to that law as he lived it. He lived it with the bear and the lion and
with Goliath, like we said before. And when David stopped living the law of God will fight
my battles, God was not able to bless him with his accompanying law. So when David put
your eye on the front lines, David was fighting David's battles and he was not blessed with
God's accompanying law. He lived man's law and was met with the reward of man's law.
It's like, almost like he, when he, when he was living in the ability to access God's
power. He had it.
I think he was so delusional to think he could make other life decisions and still access
that power because he had experienced it before.
Oh my gosh. Yes, you know what? So probably there may have been a point, like if I were,
if I were the adversary thinking, how am I going to get David? It may have been, and
this is absolutely just a thought when you were talking. Maybe there was a point where
he was like, I can reproduce this on my own. You know what I mean?
Definitely. Because he's like, right, the bear, the lion, Goliath, you can totally do
this.
He reminded him of those experiences in a way that's like, regardless of the way you've
been living this life, you've had access to his power and so go for it. I dare you.
Totally.
That was what St. was trying to do to our Savior Jesus Christ when he was fasting for
40 days and 40 nights. He wanted to take something temporal like eating food and talk our Savior
into using the power that was in him to fulfill a manmade, a temporal thing. And so I can
definitely see the...
And he even promised him something that wasn't even his to give in the first place. Do you
know what I mean?
Absolutely.
Yes, he twists it and how messed up to do something like that when someone's so hungry,
that changes everything, right?
Yeah. So I'm glad that this talk landed and it gave you a chance to think back on stuff
that you've studied in the past about the laws and the blessings that are kind of predicated
upon obedience to those laws. Can you say, where did you find the best resources for
that study that you did?
You know what? I just prayed and made a list and literally, my mom gave me a book for Christmas,
was The Law of Love. So I'm like, oh, there's the first one. A friend was texting me and
said, you have to, or you don't have to, but she was like, this book's fantastic. It's
The Physical Laws of Light. And I was like, you've got to be kidding me. So I put that
on my next one. I really did just have an open prayer and when things crossed my desk,
so to speak, sounded like it was right. And then also, I will say the culminating event
was in October of that year when President Oaks gave the talk about the celestial...
The degrees of glory.
Yes, the degrees of glory. And you're able to be blessed by whatever law you're living.
That whole thing, it was like a culminating event. And I was like, yes, yes, yes.
That paired with the prophets think celestial. It was like, we're always like, I'm doing
this thing in life and I'm hoping that I inherit the celestial kingdom. And they're like, that's
not what we've been trying to tell you. We're telling you today, you can live celestially.
Absolutely.
Or you can also live terrestrial or terrestrial.
Whatever you choose. Whatever you want.
But it shouldn't be such a surprise to you that the degree of glory that you inherit
looks far different from the one that you're living. Because you were comfortably living
that in the moment. He would assume that you want to live that eternally.
Totally.
So I do remember you and Gail, I think Gail was like way into studying the laws at that
time. And for me, it felt a little bit overwhelming. And so I'll say the more bite size suggestion
was when they were going to take a deep dive into it, I thought I will focus on the five
laws that are laid out in the temple.
Oh, perfect.
And so then you can open that. If you haven't been in doubt in the temple, you can find
what those laws are right in the preparing for the temple. You can see what laws you're
preparing to say that you'll abide by. And then if you have been in doubt, like sit in
a session and think, you know, what can you teach me about the way that I'm living these
laws or which ones, which one can I like really focus on and pay more attention to?
I love the Abbey. It was so laid out. That was another thing.
It's five there too.
I know. So that was no coincidence. I think she was pointing us really to the temple in
this talk also.
And I loved it too, because the year that I decided to, okay, learn about God and how
He works, I feel like, you know, it was the beginning of that year when it was just more
crystal. The things that we promised to do, the five laws didn't change, but the way they
were presented changed a little bit. So at least for me, it became so much more clear.
And I think part of having the words there also helps to crystallize it in my mind.
If you're a visual person, it pairs it with, yeah, I agree.
It's beautiful.
Yeah, because they do kind of hit a little bit differently, because it's almost like
it's so simple. It's so simple and it's laid out. And in thinking through the temple and
through this talk, it's like, would you live a better life if you just picked up one of
those laws and started executing that and doing, like fulfilling that law to the best
of your ability? Absolutely.
Would it come in handy? Would it grant you access to God's power? Absolutely. But what
say ye if you had all five of them in your pack? You know, not guessing what things are
going to come your way. And really, in the way the temple goes, it's not like you can
say, I'm going to do that one, but I'm not going to so much care about like the law of
chastity or tithing. You can't handpick which one you're not going to do. Well in advance,
you know what you're going in there to promise to do. And what you get on the other end of
it is like a celestial way of thinking. You can think things through. You can live celestial
now because you're abiding by the celestial law now.
Agreed.
So any closing thoughts? Any challenges you want to present to the audience?
That, you know, for a challenge of this week as you recognize consequences or current circumstances
that are in your life right now, ask Heavenly Father to show you what law you're living.
And it starts with honesty and awareness and a desire to live higher and holier laws. Laws
of love rather than anger, forgiveness over grudges, repentance over pride, responsibility
over blame, faith in Jesus Christ over fear, and trust in God over man. That's what I would
leave.
I think it's perfect.
All right. Thanks so much for being with us today. We hope you have a great week.
We'll catch you next time.
See ya.