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Parker Hibbett: I also think
finding it through poetry has been

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a healing process. Yeah, as a black
body, as a queer body, I've been

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taught not to trust, trust my body,
or like, trust its instincts, its

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feelings. And High Jump was so
important to me when I did it,

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partially because it was all about
me trusting this sense of my body

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and its own sort of rhythm that it
knew better than I could.

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Seán Hewitt: Welcome to The
Glimpse. I'm your host, Seán

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Hewitt. Gustav Parker Hibbett is a
poet and essayist. Their first

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collection, High Jump as Icarus
Story was shortlisted for the T.S.

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Eliot Prize. Their work has
appeared in Guernica, Adroit, The

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Stinging Fly, and Poetry Ireland
Review, among many others. Gustav

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Parker Hibbett is our guest today
on The Glimpse.

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In Gustav Parker Hibbett's poems,
we are let loose into a world of

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transformation and flight, though
Parker is always aware of the

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forces of gravity, pressure and the
ties that bind us. With a daring

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gymnastic ability to adapt the
forms of their poetry and a

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glittering intelligence just as at
home in the world of Greek

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mythology as in critical theory,
music and athletics, Parker's is a

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poetry that lifts up the self, the
body and the world in which we

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exist for brilliant and powerful
examination. Stylish, tender,

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playful and rigorous, Parker is a
poet whose poems have the ability

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to remake themselves and to remake
us along the way. Parker, welcome

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to The Glimpse. Thank you so much
for being here.

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Parker Hibbett: Thanks for having
me, and thanks for such a lovely

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intro.

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Seán Hewitt: You're very welcome. I
want to start by congratulating

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you. Your debut collection, High
Jump as Icarus Story, which came

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out this year, was just recently
shortlisted for the T.S. Eliot

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Prize, which is the biggest prize
for poetry in the U.K. and Ireland,

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so well done. It's such a brilliant
book, and it's threaded through

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with a sort of coming of age
narrative. I think it's such a

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beautiful exploration of the way in
which we are kind of pressurized

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and molded into, into people, and
what we can do about that, how we

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might kind of explore our own
metamorphosis and how we might

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change ourselves.

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I wanted to start by asking you,
you know...one of the things that

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really struck me when I was reading
your book was the way you pull in

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mythology and athletics and music
and critical theory and so many

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other things to talk about
transformation and the way we exist

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in the world. I wonder what it is
about poetry and metamorphosis

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that, that seem to go so hand in
hand for you.

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Parker Hibbett: Yeah, I've actually
done a lot of thinking about this

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recently, because I think I feel so
much more at home in poetry than I

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do in many different types of
prose. I don't know, and there's

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something about poetry where... I
think part of it's the lyric "I," I

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think the lyric "I" is a little bit
more, I think, flexible in holding

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a self in a way that maybe borders,
like, fiction and non-fiction. But

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then I also think that poetry, more
than any other form, is like open

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to formal and linguistic
experimentation.

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Seán Hewitt: Yeah, yeah,

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Parker Hibbett: Which means that
it's just like, it's open to, I

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think, evidencing or making
manifest, like, transformations.

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Seán Hewitt: Yeah. I think there's
something about the way poetry,

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particularly your poetry, moves.
That seems to —you know, I keep on

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wanting to make kind of circular
gestures with my hands, but I'm

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thinking of kind of unfolding
things and unraveling them and

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re-raveling them and remaking them.
It seems to go hand-in-hand with,

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with transformation. I wasn't going
to ask you about the lyric "I", but

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now I want to. What is your
relationship to that "I," that

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speaking voice in the poem, and has
it changed over time?

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Parker Hibbett: Yeah, I think it
maybe changes every time I sit down

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to write, and I think that's why I
feel really at home in poetry is...

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I think there's that, the "I" from
poem to poem can be a different

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angle of yourself, and you get to
sort of exist fully in that angle,

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and think through that angle.

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Yeah, I think, with the poems in
this book, there was this, I think

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gathering of mass, if that makes
sense, where it slowly had to sort

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of build itself as making me
comfortable, I think, writing in a

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way that I was able to have that
relationship to the lyric "I." And

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then I think once I accumulated
enough mass there, enough poems

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that I had sort of written that
way, that relationship felt really

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natural. And I think still feels
quite natural.

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Seán Hewitt: Yeah, I love that idea of
an accumulation, particularly

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because it could be the case that
an "I" speaks for us in a totality.

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You know, it's expected to perhaps
represent us at all times, which

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is, of course, kind of impossible.
And I like the idea that when you

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start a new poem, you start again.
You kind of essay your way forward.

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You try another angle. You come at
a different direction. And there's

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a freedom in that, because you
don't have to sum everything up,

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but also a freedom in that you can
be a different part of yourself.

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And I wonder if, you know, looking
back over over the collection that

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you have now, do you feel that you
have got a more pluralistic sense

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of the "I"—that is the speaker of
all of these poems? Is there

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something kind of choral about the
book?

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Parker Hibbett: Yeah, I think I
would definitely say that, because

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I think a lot of the poems were
written not necessarily with the

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intention of being put together in
this way. Like, that all sort of

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came together as it came together.
So it's been interesting to, like

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read the book since it's been like
a physical, completely together

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book because, yeah, there is this,
I think, chorus of selves that I'm

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quite proud of. I think.

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Seán Hewitt: I think you should be;
it's such a great book. And I mean,

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you know, writers, I think, are
often asked about other writers who

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inspire them. But for the subject
of your poem this week —and also a

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lot of the poems in High Jump as
Icarus Story—I wanted to talk to

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you about music. Do you feel that
you take inspiration in any way

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from music, whether that's the
musicality or the emotion of a song

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or a singer's voice? And do you
listen to music as you write?

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Parker Hibbett: I do. I think, I'm
trying to maybe cool it with this,

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but I'm one of those people who,
like, has to be listening to music

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almost every idle [moment]. So if
I'm like, in the office, working,

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I'm listening to music. If I'm
writing, I'm listening to music. If

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I'm making dinner, I'm listening to
music. I think I've had this

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relationship with a lot of songs, a
lot of artists where I'm really

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interested in rhythm and, like, the
sound of how things work. I think

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I've developed this very personal
sense of how, how I think my

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writing should sound. Yeah, it
feels really good to trust that

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sense and then have that be
validated the way that it's been.

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Seán: Yeah, yeah. But I think
that that is, you know, so evident

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in your poems that they come with a
beat, and you feel them pushing

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towards the place that they're
going to; you know, there's a

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momentum to them. You know, I don't
want to stretch the metaphor too

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much, but I think there's something
in the body that is rhythmic, and

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as the title of your book, and a
number of the poems in the book

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refer to "high jumping," I can't
help but think that you must be

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someone who was attuned to rhythm.
You know, you need rhythm and

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momentum for both of these jobs.

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Parker Hibbett: Yeah. I also think
finding it through poetry has been

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a healing process. As a black body,
as a queer body, I've been taught

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not to trust, trust my body or like
trusts its instincts, its feelings

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and High Jump was so important to
me when I did it, partially because

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it was all about me trusting this
sense of my body and its own sort

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of rhythm that it knew better than
I could.

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Seán Hewitt: Yeah.

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Parker Hibbett: Yeah.

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Seán Hewitt: There's something kind
of primal about it, perhaps, which

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I love for you, that you found that
kind of freedom in the voice and,

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and the rhythm, and it comes
through in the poem so, so

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strongly. You know, that there's
something instinctive and primal

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about needing to find that rhythm
in a voice, in a way of speaking,

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that is definitely yours and
definitely free of the sort of

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doubt that is trying to ground it.

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Parker Hibbett: Yeah, yeah.

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Seán: So one of the poems that
you're going to read today, your

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own poem, is about one of my
favorite singers,—she's having a

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renaissance again. But Joni
Mitchell, I feel, half-raised me.

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(laughter) And, you know, when I
was listening to Joni Mitchell as a

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as a teenager, I kind of stopped by
the time I got to this album. I

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don't think I was ready for the
sort of experimentalism of Don

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Juan's Reckless Daughter. I
preferred the acoustic-y...Hejira

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was kind of as far as I got. But
the poem that you're going to read

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refers to the album artwork for
that album [Don Juan's Reckless

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Daughter]  right?

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Parker Hibbett: Yeah, and it was
something she did, like for a

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series of years. Like, the first
instance was at, like, a Halloween

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party, then on the album of Don
Juan’s Restless Daughter and then

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kind of just continuously, like
she'd sort of trotted out as this

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thing that she was really, I think,
artistically, proud of.

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Seán: Yeah, yeah. It's, it's
very strange. So give us the

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context for what we're talking
about here.

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Parker Hibbett: Yeah. So I
similarly was obsessed with Joni

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Mitchell's music. I think the first
record that I bought was Blue,

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like... I was in there. It was just
my soundtrack for so much, I think,

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in the way that— I don't know—you
can come to a book and you could

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think, like "The whole world is
contained in this book." I really

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would come to, like, Blue or Hejira
and be like, "The whole world is

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contained in how she's talking in
this, this album."

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And then in grad school, a black
friend of mine was like, "Hey,

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like, I don't know if you know
this, but the whole, like,

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blackface thing," and then— I don't
know— it, I was really, I think,

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hit really hard by that in this
weird way, because it felt like

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someone who had been so close to me
had hurt me in this really weird

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way. Someone who I thought had seen
me so clearly had, like, costumed

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as me.

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Seán: I think, you know, that
there is something that you can't

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doubt about the immediacy of that
sort of pain and disappointment,

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because, as you say, we connect
with singers and poets and writers

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on such a deep level, because they
become part of who we are, you

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know, and we feel that they're kind
of echoing inside us. And then to

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see that they're not quite that,
that person, and that they're

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actually taking a, sort of, what
feels like a direct aim at you, and

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to let you down and hurt you must
have been a really, actually

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discombobulating experience.

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Parker Hibbett: Yeah, I think the
weirdest thing for me about it was

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that people have sort of brought it
up to her in interviews. I think as

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recently as, like, 2015, people
have sort of asked her about it,

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and she's really stood by it, like,
refused to apologize, refused to

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believe that there was anything
wrong.

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I was reading the Anne powers
biography of her. She wrote:  "She

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didn't just cross a line. She
refused to acknowledge its

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existence."

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Seán Hewitt: Right?

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Parker Hibbett: I thought that kind
of encapsulates it. I was like,

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whatever about maybe not knowing or
not realizing when someone brings

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it up to you as that you've done
this thing that has hurt people

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potentially, and you sort of refuse
to acknowledge that hurt, like,

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what?

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Seán Hewitt: Yeah, kind of
baffling. And especially, you know,

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when we connect so closely to the
voice in those songs, which is

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vulnerable and empathetic and hurt
and expansive, and all of these

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things that feel like the sort of
person we want to be beside. To

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have that, you know, really stern
dismissal is crazy.

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I was looking at the album Don
Juan's Reckless Daughter, and I see

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the album artwork on Spotify. It's
changed now, which... it's just

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like a wolf now, strangely enough.
But Parker, you know, you've

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transformed that experience, which
is so full of disappointments and

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pain— but also much wider cultural
and historical questions— into the

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most brilliant poem. I wonder if
you would read "Joni Mitchell

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dresses up as me" for us.

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00:14:01,410 --> 00:14:08,160
Parker Hibbett: Yeah. “Joni Mitchell
dresses up as me.” Dark-felt fedora

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and sunglasses; little black-haired
moustache; afro wig; skin the hue

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of walnut wood painted over face,
neck, hands; gold chains; earrings;

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jewel-toned blazer— I am the sort
of man an artist wears to sing in,

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dons to shed herself: puffed-up,
pimpin', perfectly impermanent. I

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am beautiful, she says: the wisp of
something Negro in the twilight

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timbre of her mezzo, piano riff of
black bird wings, noble sorrow

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turned arpeggio. My brass bravado
grand enough to make her troubles

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soulful jewellery, leave her
feeling freer, deeper, natural. She

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loves that I am the friend she's
never had to worry for, the man who

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jives and jukes so centrifugal that
my noose is dew drops slipping from

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a crocus stem, who grooves so fast
the cops can't catch my saxophone.

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Seductive, tragic, lovely Joni says
she loves my self- possession, how

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it feels to possess me.

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That's part one, and then part two
is: When she leaves me in a pile at

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the end of her bed, turns back into
herself for sleep, I up and walk

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the streets, the jagged jazz clubs,
alleys of the white imagination,

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trail smoky grace notes in my wake.
Dance with other bodies, muses,

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curios on break from metaphor:
Saartjie Baartman back from endless

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exhibition; the Zealy seven cut,
emancipated,from daguerreotype:

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Alfred Renty, Drana, Fassena, Jack,
Jem, Delia; Caliban, Othello. We

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end most nights with candles,
whiskey tumblers, playing cards at

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bars with little tables where we
laugh off all that makes our

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eyelids heavy, stay for hours and
the minutes before morning dawns.

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Part with kisses on both cheeks,
reminders of the kind of love that

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stains us lipstick-red, until we
see ourselves again.

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Seán: That's so strong, and this
poem is kind of riffing off

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dress-up and these "costumings of
the self." You know, lines like,

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"I'm the sort of man / an artist
wears to sing in" which is such a

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brilliant line, and the idea of
being free from metaphor and seeing

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ourselves again, it made me think,
you know, that this is a poem about

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the gaze, in some ways, and various
gazes being seen from without and

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being seen from, from within. And I
just wondered if you could speak a

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little bit about how you're
navigating those, those gazes in

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this poem.

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Parker Hibbett: Yeah, I think I
initially sort of had the two parts

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of the poem together, and I think
was very interested, maybe

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principally, in that, that gaze
element.  What it all came down to,

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sort of, for me, was this idea of
the way that I think people might

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see me, or that I think many
different types of marginalized

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people have to be sort of
hyper-aware of the way that people

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might see us in these bad ways, and
how that, I think, just, like,

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dominates our thoughts. And I think
I was interested in the idea of,

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like, when she goes to sleep, and
Art Nouveau is just off to his own

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devices, as an opportunity to be in
this space where he and all of

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these other sort of historically
metaphorized and exhibited and

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violated black bodies are able to,
I don't know, exist, seeing only

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themselves.

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Seán: Yeah, yeah. "Art Nouveau"
is the, what she calls the alter

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ego, right? This black-face alter
ego on the album artwork. You know,

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one of the things that this poem
does and many of the poems in your

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book do, is, you know, they're
really concerned with the interplay

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between the self and history, or a
singular and a collective

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imagination. And, you know, these
are really big things to get inside

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a poem. And I just can't help, in
some ways, marvel at how you get

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them in. How do you approach such a
big subject within a poem, without

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it collapsing the poem? Because it
never does with your poems.

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Parker Hibbett: I don't know. I
think weirdly with this one,

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especially, I think, almost
focusing on something else, like,

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knowing that that was what I was in
there writing about. But I really,

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especially in the first part of the
poem— in ways that at the time I

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was maybe like, "am I enjoying this
too, too much?"— I got really,

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really into the sound and like
trying to set up these line breaks.

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I think thinking of the poetic line
as this, like fabric that I was, or

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the sentence as the fabric I was
stretching over the poetic line

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and, like, making that as tight and
as smooth as possible, and making

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all the, all those little moments. I
think having that to focus on meant

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that, I think I was able to hold
the sort of bigger ideas, because

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there was, there was another
engine, also sort of driving,

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driving the way that the poem
moved.

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Seán: Yeah, it feels like an
engine. It feels like there's so

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much surprise and energy available
in those line breaks, you know,

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even the one where you split, "she
loves my self-," break,

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"possession." And there's something
so jugular about that that line

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break that feels that it pulls the
poem. "With an engine," is a lovely

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way of putting it. Parker, we're
going to take a quick break now,

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but when you come back, you're
going to tell us a bit about

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another sort of mythical creature,
which is a goat's head, the lion's

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body and a snake for a tail.

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Cathy & Peter Halstead: We hope
you're enjoying this second season

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00:20:48,930 --> 00:20:53,340
of The Glimpse. It's just one small
part of the Adrian Brinkerhoff

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00:20:53,340 --> 00:20:58,170
Poetry Foundation. We're the
founders Peter and Cathy Halstead.

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Our goal is to make great poetry
more accessible to everyone, and we

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do that in a variety of ways,
through partnerships, our film

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00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:15,060
series, this podcast and our
website, brinkerhoffpoetry.org.  We

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hope these works will lure you into
a parallel universe, the way a

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Möbius strip brings you into
another dimension without leaving

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the page you're on. Thank you so
much for listening.

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Seán: Welcome back to The
Glimpse. So, Parker, you've chosen

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a poem by Donika Kelly as your
inspiration. Will you tell us a

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little bit about what drew you to
this poem first?

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Parker Hibbett: Yeah, I think
there's just this, this charge,

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like, I think she's doing something
really exciting here. And it's

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something that I think that has
really inspired me in my own

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writing. This sort of mythology
made personal, yeah? And mythology

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made not just personal, but, like,
intimate and moving and shifting.

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Seán: Yeah, and we were talking
before about that the kind of

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energy of form in your poems. And
this poem feels to me like it has

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such energy in its form. Would you
read it for us? It's called

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"Chimera," right?

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Parker Hibbett: Yeah, "Love Poem:
Chimera" I thought myself lion and

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serpent. Thought myself body enough
for two, for we. Found comfort in

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never being lonely. What burst from
my back, from my bones, what lived

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along the ridge from crown to
crown, from mane to forked tongue

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beneath the skin. What clamor we
made in the birthing. What hiss and

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00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:44,700
rumble at the splitting, at the
horns and beard, at the glottal

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bleat. What bridges our back. What
strong neck, what bright eye. What

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menagerie are we. What we've made
of ourselves.

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Seán: I feel like you need to
take a breath after reading that

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poem. You know, when I first read
it, it really took me by surprise,

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because it was almost as if there
was this kind of creature emerging

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out of it, breaking out of this
poem, and it took me a while to

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recognize what was happening in the
poem, and then I was getting bowled

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over by the end of it.

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Parker Hibbett: I have like
exclamation points written in the

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book next to "What bridges our
back," and then "what menagerie,"

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line break, "are we?" Just,
[exhales]

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Seán: Yeah, I was staring at
that line, "what menagerie / are

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we?" And I was trying to figure it
out, you know, why is it so good?

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And I, I kind of came to this idea
that there was... "bright eye,"

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"menagerie," is a kind of rhyme,
and then "menagerie/are we" is a

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kind of rhyme, but it's, it's kind
of a changed rhyme. You know, "are

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we" doesn't rhyme with "bright
eye," but with "menagerie" in the

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middle, they both rhyme. Do you
know what I mean? There's some

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trickery going on in this poem,
which is...

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Parker Hibbett: Yeah, it works so
well on a sonic level.

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Seán: Amazing, and I think it
just has a soundscape that, that

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just keeps fizzing and kind of
detonating in places. And, you

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know, it feels like it's almost
gymnastic, like dancing and moving

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on, on the page. Was it something
about that movement and the kind of

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soundscape of it that drew you to
this poem?

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Parker Hibbett: I think so. And I
think it's those lines, like, that

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hit really well. But as mentioned,
I love, I think, all of the poems,

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all the, the love poems that kind
of sequence throughout the

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collection. But there's something
about this one, and it was, it was

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almost intangible, like, I couldn't
exactly describe why this one, but

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it was just, I think, that sort of
double valence of the, the "what,"

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like, how it sits somewhere between
question and statement, which means

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00:24:46,740 --> 00:24:49,830
that as you're reading forward
you're kind of, it's kind of taking

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shape as it moves through each of
those sentences.

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Seán: It is. It's kind of, it's
kind of shifting the poem, and it's

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just kind of inching its way
forward in such a surprising

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00:25:00,570 --> 00:25:05,190
grammatical way. "What bridges our
back. /  What strong neck, what

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bright eye"— something of it
reminded me of "The Tyger,"  the

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William Blake poem, you know. I
had, "What the hammer? what the

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chain, /  In what furnace was thy
brain?" You know, I wondered if

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there was something of the
monstrous vision of "The Tyger" in

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the back of the monstrous vision of
the chimera in this poem as well.

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Parker Hibbett: Yeah, I'm sure that
before and in the process of

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writing this book, she must have
sort of read just a lot of, like,

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animal or monster poems.

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Seán Hewitt: Yeah.,The book is
called Bestiary, right?

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Parker Hibbett: Yeah,

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Yeah. It also seemed to me, you
know, to be a poem about hybridity.

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It's about community or
interdependence. I'm gonna butcher

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the line if I don't look at it, but
"Thought / myself body enough for

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00:25:53,130 --> 00:25:57,510
two, for we. /  Found comfort in
never being lonely," You know, and

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the whole poem kind of breaks open
that certainty or the or the

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stubbornness of the idea of
self-sufficiency, you know—it has

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to break out of itself. I think in
that way the, the poem kind of

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00:26:10,860 --> 00:26:17,520
becomes a metamorphosis poem, you
know, in the same way that, that

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yours, so it fits so so well
alongside the poems in High Jump.

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What is it that kind of drew you
originally to the mythology and

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these myth-making poems? Has that
always been a kind of obsession for

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you, or has it come later?

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I think I always, as many
adolescents did, that, had that

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sort of Icarus obsession, just... I
think I was really interested in

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the idea of this transcendence and
then like, failure, which in turn,

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sort of evidenced, like, not a
failure of him, but a failure of

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the world that he was in to hold
him or something. Which I think

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speaks to a lot of sort of
adolescent growing pains,

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00:27:02,430 --> 00:27:04,710
especially for any sort of
marginalized kid. There's this,

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like, fierce desire to, like,
become...I don't know. So I think

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Icarus was my sort of entryway into
a lot of stuff. But then it became,

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like... the labyrinth was sort of a
heavy focus.

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Seán: Right? Because the
Minotaur kind of shows up in your

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book as well.

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00:27:22,350 --> 00:27:25,590
Parker Hibbett: Yeah, I feel like
Minotaur was another big one from

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00:27:25,650 --> 00:27:31,110
that kind of set of mythological
figures. And then I read H.D.'s

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00:27:31,140 --> 00:27:35,850
Helen in Egypt, and that made, I
don't know, this like, enormous

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00:27:35,850 --> 00:27:42,870
impact on just what you could do
with myth. H.D. does this thing

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00:27:42,900 --> 00:27:47,430
where she frees Helen from her myth
without really confining her to a

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00:27:47,430 --> 00:27:51,900
new one. She gets to exist in this
like plurality of the lyric "I",

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00:27:51,930 --> 00:27:57,150
like... she is poetic, opaque in
like a Glissant way, like, thing

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and she is free. Like, the details
are fuzzy, it stays, like, hazy,

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00:28:03,660 --> 00:28:10,350
and it's...oh my god. So I think
that sort of helped ignite a lot of

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00:28:10,350 --> 00:28:10,770
stuff.

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Seán: Yeah, I think, you know,
there's a way in which the myths

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are always there as a sort of
opportunity to transform our own

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00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:26,160
experience through this kind of
fund of, of stories and ideas that

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00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:30,960
are common language between us, you
know. And and it seems that you

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00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:36,570
know, in this poem "Chimera," it's
transforming what might have been

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a, you know, a poem of ordinary
experience into a poem of quite

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00:28:42,540 --> 00:28:51,030
extraordinary power. Because the
chimera gets at the heart of, of

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00:28:51,030 --> 00:28:55,650
contradiction or hybridity in
ourselves and in our emotions as

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00:28:55,650 --> 00:28:58,050
well, and it... you know, if
anything, this poem feels like it's

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00:28:58,050 --> 00:29:04,650
in a in a locked battle between
two, two forms of the self. I

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00:29:04,650 --> 00:29:07,530
wonder you know, did you say this
one comes from a sequence? Are they

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00:29:07,530 --> 00:29:08,880
all love poems?

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00:29:09,180 --> 00:29:10,800
Parker Hibbett: They're all,
there's a sequence—it's kind of

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00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:12,960
spaced throughout the book—but
there are two "Love Poem:

401
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:16,080
Centaur"s: there's a "Love Poem:
Centaur" with a capital "C," "Love

402
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,680
Poem: centaur" with lowercase "c."
I think this one is in this

403
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:24,810
interesting space of, again, that
sort of contradiction, where it's

404
00:29:24,810 --> 00:29:29,430
like somewhere in between talking
about self-love and, like, I think

405
00:29:29,430 --> 00:29:35,970
you can also read it in some ways,
about sort of the space that opens

406
00:29:35,970 --> 00:29:38,220
up between two people in a
relationship.

407
00:29:38,220 --> 00:29:38,280
Seán Hewitt: Yeah.

408
00:29:38,970 --> 00:29:42,030
Parker Hibbett: I think that has
that double valence. Some of them

409
00:29:42,030 --> 00:29:48,420
are sort of more explicitly, like
love poems to someone. "Love Poem:

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00:29:48,420 --> 00:29:51,150
Centaur" starts, "Nothing
approaches the field like me."

411
00:29:51,180 --> 00:29:57,600
They're all sort of like this
electric movement. She kind of,

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00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:02,370
like, I think comes at all of
these, from these different, I

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00:30:02,370 --> 00:30:06,300
guess, like kaleidoscopic, maybe,
parts of sides of a prism or

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00:30:06,300 --> 00:30:06,630
something,

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00:30:06,630 --> 00:30:09,630
Seán: Yeah, I think
kaleidoscopic or, or kind of

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00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:15,810
crystalline, you know, in the way
it's bouncing the light around this

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00:30:15,810 --> 00:30:20,520
poem, or refracting things. You
know, it just seems to be, the more

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00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:26,460
you look at it, the more it means,
but also that it can mean

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00:30:26,460 --> 00:30:30,810
contradictory things. You know,
it's both a love poem and, and

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00:30:30,810 --> 00:30:35,250
perhaps a regretful poem about
what... "What we've made of

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00:30:35,250 --> 00:30:38,940
ourselves" can be read two very
different ways, I think, according

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00:30:38,940 --> 00:30:44,820
to how you want to read this poem.
You know that it can be a kind of

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00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:50,280
sign of strength for what we've
made, you know, the strength in the

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00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:55,350
making, but also a kind of "look
what we've done," in a regretful

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00:30:55,350 --> 00:30:55,710
way.

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00:30:55,740 --> 00:30:56,490
Parker Hibbett: Yeah.

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00:30:57,090 --> 00:31:00,450
Seán Hewitt: I've been reading this
poem over the past week kind of

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00:31:00,450 --> 00:31:05,520
repeatedly, and I still not quite
decided the definitive reading. And

429
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:07,020
I think that's what I love about
it.

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00:31:07,620 --> 00:31:11,100
Parker Hibbett: Yeah. I think in
preparing for talking about it

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00:31:11,100 --> 00:31:13,740
here, I was like, "oh my god, I
actually don't know how to talk

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00:31:13,740 --> 00:31:18,090
about it." Like "if I, if I present
this reading of it, that's not the

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00:31:18,090 --> 00:31:20,940
only reading, like, I can't," I
don't know, it...

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00:31:20,940 --> 00:31:24,000
Seán Hewitt: Yeah, there's
something. But I think that's what

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00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:27,540
the best poems do, right? They kind
of confound the other language that

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00:31:27,540 --> 00:31:32,070
you might, might try to summarize
them with. You know that this poem

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00:31:32,070 --> 00:31:36,930
exists in its own kind of
irreducible space, and part of it

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00:31:36,930 --> 00:31:42,270
is that kind of sparking nature of,
of the words, "What bridges our

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00:31:42,270 --> 00:31:46,560
back. // What strong neck, what
bright eye. What menagerie /  are

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00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:53,040
we."  So good, so good. I loved it.
So Parker, it's been a big year for

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00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:57,900
you with the publication of your
debut book. What's next?

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00:31:58,890 --> 00:32:02,610
Parker Hibbett: I I'm in the final
year of my, my literary practice

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00:32:02,610 --> 00:32:11,010
PhD, where I'm working on, like, an
auto ethnographic series of essays,

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00:32:11,850 --> 00:32:15,600
kind of memoir-esque. But yeah,
working, towards, like a non

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00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:21,120
fiction book, which has been
maddening and impossible, and I

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00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:24,630
think I'm starting to feel like I
don't ever want to touch prose

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00:32:24,630 --> 00:32:30,060
again after this. But by the end of
this, I will ideally have a, like,

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00:32:30,060 --> 00:32:31,740
a nonfiction book of essays.

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00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,260
Seán Hewitt: That is something
really to look forward to. I can't

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00:32:34,260 --> 00:32:39,300
wait to read it. Parker, thank you
so much for taking the time to

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00:32:39,390 --> 00:32:43,290
speak to us today, and for reading
your, your poems, it's been a real

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00:32:43,290 --> 00:32:43,680
pleasure.

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00:32:43,830 --> 00:32:45,870
Parker Hibbett: Thank you so much
for having me. It's been great.

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00:32:52,620 --> 00:32:55,440
Seán: Thanks for joining us
today. I'm your host. Seán Hewitt.

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00:32:56,100 --> 00:32:59,250
Seán Hewitt: Parker’s poem "Joni
Mitchell dresses up as me (parts I

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00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:03,090
and II)" is from  High Jump as
Icarus Story, now available from

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00:33:03,090 --> 00:33:04,080
Banshee Press.

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00:33:04,830 --> 00:33:09,360
"Love Poem: Chimera" by Donika
Kelly is from Bestiary, published

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00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:13,140
in 2016. It was used with
permission from Graywolf Press.

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00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:19,710
Coming up next week, poet Jane
Clarke talks about her journey from

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00:33:19,710 --> 00:33:23,820
psychoanalysis to poetry, building
a wall, and how her visits with

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00:33:23,820 --> 00:33:27,000
farmers, ecologists and naturalists
inform her work.

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00:33:29,730 --> 00:33:32,250
Make sure to subscribe to The
Glimpse wherever you get your

464
00:33:32,250 --> 00:33:35,370
podcasts. You can also find
episodes on our website

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00:33:35,610 --> 00:33:40,290
brinkerhoffpoetry.org/podcast, We'd
also love to hear from you. Drop us

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00:33:40,290 --> 00:33:42,900
an email at
theglimpsepoetrypodcast@gmail.com

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00:33:44,550 --> 00:33:47,160
The Glimpse is a production of the
Adrian Brinkerhoff Poetry

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00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:51,570
Foundation. I'm your host, Seán
Hewitt, our Senior Producer is

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00:33:51,570 --> 00:33:55,020
Jennifer Wolfe, Kat Yore is our
Technical Director and mixing

470
00:33:55,020 --> 00:33:59,130
engineer. Editorial Director Amanda
Glassman is our curator and

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00:33:59,130 --> 00:34:02,820
production coordinator. Amy Holmes
is the foundation's Executive

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00:34:02,820 --> 00:34:07,500
Director, and our co-founders are
Cathy and Peter Halstead. Thanks

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00:34:07,500 --> 00:34:08,040
for listening.