1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,630 Seán Hewitt: The Glimpse. 2 00:00:05,580 --> 00:00:09,450 Nithy Kasa: So how you read a poem was always very important from the 3 00:00:09,450 --> 00:00:16,140 start, and now I can't write a poem without reading it out loud. It's 4 00:00:16,140 --> 00:00:21,360 the sound that gets me, and the structure of the poem goes with the 5 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:23,550 sound. It's how I will speak it. 6 00:00:25,580 --> 00:00:27,980 Seán Hewitt: Welcome to The Glimpse. I'm your host. Seán 7 00:00:27,980 --> 00:00:28,220 Hewitt. 8 00:00:29,180 --> 00:00:32,480 Nithy Kasa is a Congolese-Irish poet whose work has been featured 9 00:00:32,510 --> 00:00:35,900 in The University of Galway's Archive, Poetry Island Review and 10 00:00:35,900 --> 00:00:39,680 elsewhere. Her debut collection of poetry, Palm Wine Tapper and The 11 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:43,790 Boy at Jericho was listed among the top poetry books for 2022 by the 12 00:00:43,790 --> 00:00:48,530 Irish Times and shortlisted for the Pigot Poetry Prize in 2023. Nithy 13 00:00:48,530 --> 00:00:50,660 Kasa is our guest today on The Glimpse. 14 00:00:50,000 --> 00:01:00,860 Nithy Kasa's poems are fresh and yet rooted in tradition, romantic, 15 00:01:00,890 --> 00:01:05,600 and spiked with a subtle darkness. I love how unafraid these poems 16 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:10,850 are, not only of lyricism, but of rich, almost archetypal imagery. In 17 00:01:10,850 --> 00:01:14,150 her debut collection, Palm Wine Tapper and the Boy at Jericho, 18 00:01:14,420 --> 00:01:18,650 which came out in 2022 there's a gorgeous blending of the erotic, 19 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:22,730 the bodily and the folkloric, which Nithy Kasa illuminates with a 20 00:01:22,730 --> 00:01:27,200 striking, earthy imagery and a skilled narrative impulse. 21 00:01:27,470 --> 00:01:31,490 Traversing the landscapes of both the Democratic Republic of Congo 22 00:01:31,670 --> 00:01:36,650 and Ireland, Her work is memorable, tensile and full of mystery. One of 23 00:01:36,650 --> 00:01:40,670 my favorite of her poems brings us to an ancient monastic site in 24 00:01:40,670 --> 00:01:44,600 Ireland, and seems to commune with its spirits all the while being 25 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:49,100 attentive to the ways the landscape communes with itself. This is how 26 00:01:49,100 --> 00:01:49,760 it goes, 27 00:01:50,420 --> 00:01:54,710 "lower an ear on the rye grass, when at Clonmacnoise, for the 28 00:01:54,710 --> 00:01:59,750 phantom chants, missioned to the halls of the pollened bogs to the 29 00:01:59,750 --> 00:02:05,510 orchards hallowing." Nithy Kasa welcome to The Glimpse. Thank you 30 00:02:05,510 --> 00:02:06,530 so much for being here. 31 00:02:06,690 --> 00:02:07,950 Nithy Kasa: Thank you for having me. 32 00:02:08,550 --> 00:02:11,280 Seán Hewitt: So tell us where you're speaking to us from. 33 00:02:12,270 --> 00:02:17,040 Nithy Kasa: I am right now in Kinshasa, Central Africa, in the 34 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:18,990 Democratic Republic of the Congo. 35 00:02:19,770 --> 00:02:21,630 Seán Hewitt: Nice. And do you spend a lot of time there? 36 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:27,480 Nithy Kasa: I'm trying to, because the past few years, well the past 37 00:02:27,510 --> 00:02:32,580 20 years, really, I've mainly been based in Ireland, and every now and 38 00:02:32,580 --> 00:02:36,180 then I would travel to Congo for like, a week or two, or maybe a 39 00:02:36,180 --> 00:02:42,570 month. But I am trying to balance it evenly between the two countries 40 00:02:42,570 --> 00:02:46,830 now, because I do have a family here. And the older you get, 41 00:02:46,860 --> 00:02:50,880 obviously you realize there is a lot more to life than me being free 42 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:54,630 and traveling and trying to connect to the family now, because the 43 00:02:54,630 --> 00:02:58,620 whole family is really here in Congo and trying to see what I can 44 00:02:58,620 --> 00:03:00,510 get from the country. 45 00:03:01,500 --> 00:03:04,290 Seán Hewitt: Nice, and do you think that that comes through in the 46 00:03:04,290 --> 00:03:06,900 writing that you're doing at any given time, whether you're in 47 00:03:06,900 --> 00:03:08,520 Ireland or in the Congo? 48 00:03:08,790 --> 00:03:13,320 Nithy Kasa: Absolutely, like I always say, wherever I am really, I 49 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:18,060 carry both countries. I think it's very difficult to pick just one 50 00:03:18,060 --> 00:03:23,250 country, because I am literally both countries at this stage. So 51 00:03:23,250 --> 00:03:25,890 when I am in Ireland, I write a lot about Congo. 52 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:29,170 Seán Hewitt: It's interesting that you kind of need to be away from 53 00:03:29,170 --> 00:03:32,020 one country to be writing about the other. Is that how it works for 54 00:03:31,940 --> 00:03:36,237 Nithy Kasa: It does. It does a lot. But sometimes, when you're in a 55 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:39,650 Seán Hewitt: And is poetry always a way to process that for you, or do 56 00:03:32,020 --> 00:03:32,170 you? 57 00:03:36,315 --> 00:03:41,160 situation as well, you can be consumed in it as well. It's not 58 00:03:39,830 --> 00:03:40,820 you do other forms of writing, 59 00:03:40,570 --> 00:03:45,010 Nithy Kasa: It was always poetry for me. Before I began releasing my 60 00:03:41,238 --> 00:03:46,396 always that way. Sometimes you do feel when you're in one country, 61 00:03:45,430 --> 00:03:51,220 poetry for other people, it was more of a diary, really. It's the 62 00:03:46,474 --> 00:03:51,318 you're thinking a lot, but other times, when events are really 63 00:03:51,250 --> 00:04:18,160 way I kept everyday lives and the confusions of teenage years and 64 00:03:51,397 --> 00:03:56,945 current and the extreme, intensive, you can be just consumed in the one 65 00:03:57,023 --> 00:03:59,680 country that happens as well. Yes. 66 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:22,180 everything immigration as well things that came with it, and being 67 00:04:22,180 --> 00:04:26,680 far away from home, Kinshasa, that is the home in Kinshasa, in missing 68 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:32,590 the people, and that came through as poetry. So that's how I got into 69 00:04:32,590 --> 00:04:37,300 poetry. I was already doing my own stuff, and I ran into poets and the 70 00:04:37,300 --> 00:04:40,450 circle, the community, they just kept pulling me like we need to 71 00:04:40,450 --> 00:04:44,110 hear, we need to hear, to hear it. That's how I got into it. 72 00:04:45,130 --> 00:04:48,670 Seán Hewitt: And that's how we came to have your debut collection. I 73 00:04:48,670 --> 00:04:49,420 suppose. 74 00:04:49,630 --> 00:04:54,970 Nithy Kasa: The debut collection came a long way. There is a lot to 75 00:04:54,970 --> 00:04:59,350 it. I suppose I had my difficulties. Like every writer, 76 00:04:59,350 --> 00:05:03,490 when you have the time you try to look for somebody to publish your 77 00:05:03,490 --> 00:05:07,420 collection, and everything that kind of comes into it, the "nos" 78 00:05:07,420 --> 00:05:14,770 and the "no response" I had that moment as well. But then the film I 79 00:05:14,770 --> 00:05:19,750 did with Adrian Brinkerhoff, I suppose that was the first time my 80 00:05:19,780 --> 00:05:24,490 image just kind of went into not just Ireland, but the U.S. and 81 00:05:24,490 --> 00:05:29,080 people were kind of looking at my poetry, and the publisher saw it, 82 00:05:29,140 --> 00:05:35,800 and they they contacted me to know, do I have more of it? And I'm like, 83 00:05:35,890 --> 00:05:41,230 "You know what? I'm actually looking for a publisher right now, 84 00:05:41,260 --> 00:05:45,310 do you want to see my work?" "Well, okay," and I did send them a 85 00:05:45,310 --> 00:05:47,320 sample. They saw it. They liked it. 86 00:05:47,890 --> 00:05:50,770 Seán Hewitt: I actually wanted to ask you about commissions, because 87 00:05:50,770 --> 00:05:53,830 when I read your bio there, I noticed just how many commissions 88 00:05:54,100 --> 00:05:59,050 you do and how many you're asked to do. I know a lot of poets can 89 00:05:59,050 --> 00:06:01,750 struggle sometimes with working on commissions. You know, they 90 00:06:01,750 --> 00:06:06,580 struggle when they're told what to write about or how to write it. How 91 00:06:06,580 --> 00:06:09,310 do you approach working with commission? Do you do you enjoy it? 92 00:06:10,170 --> 00:06:13,860 Nithy Kasa: Like every poet, it's very difficult to have you know, 93 00:06:13,860 --> 00:06:17,820 somebody gives you something. It's like ‘write something about it.’ So 94 00:06:17,820 --> 00:06:22,200 it's a more difficult process than being in your bed and something just 95 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:26,160 kind of clicks. It's magical. And you jump off the bed, try to grab 96 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:29,940 your phone and write it down, or you're at work or something, or on 97 00:06:29,940 --> 00:06:33,360 the bus, and sometimes you're just walking, and something clicks in 98 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:36,450 your head, and you take your phone, it's like before I forget, I have 99 00:06:36,450 --> 00:06:40,320 to write it down. You have to sit down and think about it a lot. 100 00:06:40,350 --> 00:06:46,140 Think about it and be around it. It's a lot more difficult, but 101 00:06:46,230 --> 00:06:50,970 there is a joy that I love. It's when you get it right. When you go 102 00:06:50,970 --> 00:06:55,650 around all those difficulties and the thoughts and the desperation, 103 00:06:55,650 --> 00:06:58,350 you know, when you're getting to the deadline, it's like, "Will I 104 00:06:58,350 --> 00:07:01,410 ever get it right? Will I ever get it right? Oh my god." And something 105 00:07:01,410 --> 00:07:05,760 clicks. It's like, "I have it." And that excitement, I love it as well. 106 00:07:05,940 --> 00:07:09,690 So it's, it's challenging, and I enjoy the challenge. I say, more 107 00:07:09,690 --> 00:07:12,810 than anything, the process is harder when you're being 108 00:07:12,810 --> 00:07:16,200 commissioned, but the journey, especially when you get it right at 109 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:19,530 the end, it's, it's always pride, yeah, it's exciting. 110 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:22,180 Seán Hewitt: I mean, it's pulling you in different directions as a 111 00:07:22,180 --> 00:07:25,360 writer, isn't it? Because I think I agree, when, when you were saying, 112 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:28,390 you know, when you're sitting on the bus and you suddenly have an 113 00:07:28,390 --> 00:07:31,780 idea and you write it down, or you're in bed, those moments are 114 00:07:31,870 --> 00:07:36,040 kind of unpredictable and and they just come to you sometimes out of 115 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:39,910 the blue, or you've been thinking about an idea for months and 116 00:07:39,910 --> 00:07:45,070 suddenly it clicks. And I guess with a commission, you have to give 117 00:07:45,070 --> 00:07:49,330 much more structure to that process, which is perhaps not the 118 00:07:49,330 --> 00:07:54,040 kind of natural way that a lot of poets write. Would you tell us a 119 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:57,280 little bit about the poem you're going to read for us today? My 120 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:01,120 People Dance by Their Hips. Where did the idea for it come from. Do 121 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:03,400 you remember writing this poem? 122 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:08,430 Would you read it for our listeners? 123 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:07,681 Nithy Kasa: Yes, it took years for me to write this poem. It came from 124 00:08:07,758 --> 00:08:13,119 my obsession with the waist beads. In the Congolese culture, it's more 125 00:08:13,196 --> 00:08:18,250 of a grown up kind of a thing, and becoming a woman comes with the 126 00:08:18,327 --> 00:08:23,534 beads, really. So you can't be a little girl wearing the beads. It's 127 00:08:23,611 --> 00:08:28,436 just, it's not okay. It's very sexualizing, I suppose. And when 128 00:08:27,470 --> 00:10:08,450 Ok. My People Dance by their Hips. They let me in rivers, when I could 129 00:08:28,512 --> 00:08:33,337 you're a younger girl looking to become a woman, you want those 130 00:08:33,414 --> 00:08:38,622 little things, but you can't really go ask your African auntie. It's 131 00:08:38,698 --> 00:08:43,676 like, "I want the beads." It's like, "child, what are you looking 132 00:08:43,753 --> 00:08:47,965 to get into?" So it's like, something you struggle with 133 00:08:48,042 --> 00:08:53,020 yourself, just wondering, "Where will I get them?" I was obsessed 134 00:08:53,096 --> 00:08:58,151 with the beads and I became a woman in Ireland, so I traveled very 135 00:08:58,227 --> 00:09:03,282 young. So I spent all my teenage years in Ireland, and there is me 136 00:09:03,358 --> 00:09:08,643 becoming a woman outside of Congo. And those things you wish would be 137 00:09:08,719 --> 00:09:13,927 cultural were in there, in a way, then you become obsessed with them 138 00:09:14,004 --> 00:09:19,288 at the same time, because you can't have them. Here you can just walk 139 00:09:19,365 --> 00:09:24,343 in the markets. There is a whole pavilion where you just have the 140 00:09:24,419 --> 00:09:29,321 beads, kind of like the cartons, and you can pick, I didn't have 141 00:09:29,397 --> 00:09:34,452 that. You have to google them. You have to find a place, an exotic 142 00:09:34,528 --> 00:09:39,736 something, place, an African shop to get them. And my obsession with 143 00:09:39,813 --> 00:09:44,791 the beads is where the poem came from, and the taboo around it as 144 00:09:44,867 --> 00:09:50,075 well. So it took me years trying to get the poem right. I had a lot 145 00:09:50,152 --> 00:09:55,360 of drafts of the poem, loads of it for years. It just kept changing. 146 00:10:08,450 --> 00:10:15,410 stand above the ripples on my own. The hidden bend for women, beating 147 00:10:15,410 --> 00:10:20,960 clothes against the river banks, that is where I heard about it, 148 00:10:21,830 --> 00:10:29,450 waist beads, how men love these things around women. But we bought 149 00:10:29,450 --> 00:10:34,250 for beads for ourselves. The people where I am from dance by their 150 00:10:34,250 --> 00:10:40,640 hips, with bead chains, leopard print wrapped on, you swirl to 151 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:48,230 drums. It's tradition. But women's talks in chambers, almost to a 152 00:10:48,230 --> 00:10:53,780 whisper, were safe, to stop pretending that you've never been 153 00:10:53,810 --> 00:11:01,970 touched, and tell that you let him, spell a poem on you, bare hands. We 154 00:11:01,970 --> 00:11:09,380 shared tricks, recipes, shea butter for the lines on your tights, the 155 00:11:09,380 --> 00:11:17,510 sorcery you'll need to keep a fussy man, and waist beads--men love 156 00:11:17,510 --> 00:11:23,630 these things around women. But we bought ours for ourselves, the 157 00:11:23,630 --> 00:11:28,670 people where I am from dance by their hips. It's tradition,Our 158 00:11:29,990 --> 00:11:34,490 beauty pavilions have weeping willows of bead bonds swaying, 159 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:41,570 mirrors, brave to show the days we used to wear skirts above our knees 160 00:11:41,570 --> 00:11:49,130 have passed, like rosary beads on a praying hand. Still, I keep the 161 00:11:49,130 --> 00:11:54,410 beads around my hips, the people where I am from dance by their 162 00:11:54,410 --> 00:11:55,430 hips. 163 00:11:58,700 --> 00:12:02,360 Seán Hewitt: Thank you so much. It's so great to hear you read that 164 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:07,010 poem. And I wonder, when you're writing, do you, do you read aloud? 165 00:12:07,010 --> 00:12:10,700 Because this is a poem that seems like it's just begging to be 166 00:12:10,700 --> 00:12:11,540 spoken. 167 00:12:12,410 --> 00:12:16,280 Nithy Kasa: So how you read a poem was always very important from the 168 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:22,970 start, and now I can't write a poem without reading it out loud. It's 169 00:12:22,970 --> 00:12:28,190 the sound that gets me, and the structure of the poem goes with the 170 00:12:28,190 --> 00:12:34,190 sound. It's how I will speak it. I will change words, cut the phrases, 171 00:12:34,190 --> 00:12:38,870 what you call the lines, to go with the way I wish to deliver that 172 00:12:38,870 --> 00:12:42,650 poem. And if the poem was just written for the page. Like I said, 173 00:12:42,680 --> 00:12:47,570 it's very tricky for me to be connected with it, to pick up that 174 00:12:47,570 --> 00:12:51,260 poem and go around to places reading it; very challenging. So I 175 00:12:51,260 --> 00:12:57,020 have to write it with the voice speaking it out loud. Usually, 176 00:12:57,020 --> 00:12:58,160 that's how it goes for me. 177 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:00,980 Seán Hewitt: Yeah, there's something in this poem I think that 178 00:13:01,010 --> 00:13:05,600 that almost sways. I feel myself swaying as I read the poem. And I 179 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:09,380 don't know if it's the rhymes or or the use of repetition, but I 180 00:13:09,380 --> 00:13:12,440 wonder, you know, as you are writing it, how do you kind of 181 00:13:12,470 --> 00:13:16,190 decide where, where you're pulling back that repetition and how you're 182 00:13:16,190 --> 00:13:19,610 kind of getting to the rhythm? Do you feel it in your body as you 183 00:13:19,610 --> 00:13:22,310 write? You know, can you describe the process? 184 00:13:22,450 --> 00:13:26,590 Nithy Kasa: It's almost as if you're reading it for yourself. And 185 00:13:26,590 --> 00:13:30,100 I can see myself on the stage delivering it. It's where the voice 186 00:13:30,100 --> 00:13:35,050 wants to stop. Usually, that's where it stops. There might be a 187 00:13:35,050 --> 00:13:40,450 word which I wish to emphasize at the beginning or at the end, and 188 00:13:40,450 --> 00:13:44,020 that would be where the line would break and start with something 189 00:13:44,020 --> 00:13:49,480 else. It's usually the performance I see myself doing. Sometimes I'd 190 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:54,040 walk around the house delivering the poem, and it's that voice where 191 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:57,490 it feels comfortable, or maybe you just want to take a breath. It's 192 00:13:57,490 --> 00:14:00,550 like, "okay, this line is long. This is where I want to take a 193 00:14:00,550 --> 00:14:04,720 breath," and that's where you break the line. It's like, "okay, I love 194 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:08,350 this word. This is how I want to start." Usually, that's how it 195 00:14:08,350 --> 00:14:08,980 goes. 196 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:12,010 Seán Hewitt: There's something in this poem, and I think in a lot of 197 00:14:12,010 --> 00:14:17,050 other poems in your collection where you know the female spaces, 198 00:14:17,050 --> 00:14:22,240 or female kind of lineages, are really centered at the front of 199 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:28,150 this poem. I I love you know the idea of of this hidden bend in the 200 00:14:28,150 --> 00:14:33,790 river for for the women, because in some ways, it's a place of of 201 00:14:33,790 --> 00:14:38,020 intimacy between the women, where kind of secrets can be told and 202 00:14:38,020 --> 00:14:43,270 people can be talked about. As you accumulated the poems for your 203 00:14:43,270 --> 00:14:51,070 collection was that sense of a kind of, you know, a female inheritance, 204 00:14:51,100 --> 00:14:53,740 kind of in the front of your mind. Do you see that as kind of one of 205 00:14:53,740 --> 00:14:59,200 your principal kind of drivers for writing poetry? Or where does that 206 00:14:59,200 --> 00:14:59,740 come from? 207 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:02,180 Nithy Kasa: When I got into poetry actively, like not just my own 208 00:15:02,180 --> 00:15:03,560 diary, but looking to be a part of the community, I was becoming a 209 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:06,260 woman. So I'm an African in the diaspora. I'm writing"who is out 210 00:15:06,290 --> 00:15:18,740 there, what black woman is out there?" And Maya Angelou was that 211 00:15:18,830 --> 00:15:22,940 woman when you're reading her poetry, what she expresses as a 212 00:15:22,940 --> 00:15:26,780 woman. I mean, being a woman is universal, but then you do have 213 00:15:26,780 --> 00:15:31,850 those racial, cultural stuff that you do have to speak to somebody 214 00:15:31,850 --> 00:15:36,620 who's like you, who comes from that place for you to understand. I 215 00:15:36,620 --> 00:15:41,030 mean, when I read the Phenomenal Woman, and Still I Rise and you 216 00:15:41,030 --> 00:15:45,110 read it, it's like, "I get that." I get what she meant. I absolutely 217 00:15:45,110 --> 00:15:48,740 understand what she's talking about. And my obsession with her 218 00:15:48,740 --> 00:15:54,620 trying to see, how can I write poetry? How do you write poetry as 219 00:15:54,620 --> 00:15:55,160 a woman? 220 00:15:55,330 --> 00:15:58,750 Seán Hewitt: Yeah, I kind of wondered, you know, when I was 221 00:15:58,750 --> 00:16:04,780 reading the poem, because it comes up so often, is these brilliant and 222 00:16:04,780 --> 00:16:09,100 I think Maya Angelou is maybe in the back of this as well. But the 223 00:16:09,340 --> 00:16:14,800 eroticism, if that's a fair word for the way in which you write 224 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:18,880 about the body and romance. I'm thinking of another poem in your 225 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:23,620 book called "Son of August" as well, which has a brilliant rhythm. 226 00:16:23,620 --> 00:16:28,570 It's kind of almost song, like in my head. I suppose. I'm wondering 227 00:16:28,900 --> 00:16:34,180 with the erotic, is that something that you think comes from the kind 228 00:16:34,180 --> 00:16:38,410 of private world of your poems, because they started in diaries, 229 00:16:38,410 --> 00:16:41,950 you know, that is there something that? Or do you even experience it 230 00:16:41,950 --> 00:16:45,760 as a sort of brave thing? Maybe this is just a particularly Irish 231 00:16:45,790 --> 00:16:50,530 hang up. You know that these things, you know, we associate with 232 00:16:50,530 --> 00:16:56,320 bravery, even just being kind of honest about desire or longing or 233 00:16:56,410 --> 00:16:57,910 kind of growing into womanhood, 234 00:16:58,050 --> 00:17:02,280 Nithy Kasa: Absolutely, especially in the African culture. You, you 235 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:08,940 just, you cannot be sexualized. You cannot be intimate. I mean, things 236 00:17:08,940 --> 00:17:13,140 are changing, but when I was growing up here, like two decades 237 00:17:13,140 --> 00:17:16,920 ago, I mean you can't even bring your boyfriend around. You just 238 00:17:16,950 --> 00:17:20,940 possibly couldn't. The only time you get to bring somebody here 239 00:17:20,970 --> 00:17:24,900 means you're getting married. You just possibly couldn't have the 240 00:17:24,900 --> 00:17:32,070 guts to bring somebody around. Getting a boyfriend is like, "Oh my 241 00:17:32,070 --> 00:17:35,670 god, it's the biggest taboo" if you want to be beaten to death. And I'm 242 00:17:35,670 --> 00:17:40,380 not kidding, not the slipper, the proper beating, let somebody catch 243 00:17:40,380 --> 00:17:46,800 you with somebody. Maybe it's just my personal desires, and the way to 244 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:51,720 deal with them was writing them down, I suppose. The bravery that 245 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:56,550 comes with it as well, having the courage to say it out loud, not 246 00:17:56,550 --> 00:18:01,500 being restricted because of the society that I am growing up in as 247 00:18:01,500 --> 00:18:06,840 well. Maybe it's just my personality. That it's the place 248 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:12,840 that I feel like I can make it come out, write about in my own space. 249 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:16,830 Write it in because I am quite introverted and a bit shy, a tiny 250 00:18:16,830 --> 00:18:24,240 bit shy. So I suppose my own page, pen and paper indoors is a place 251 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:28,350 that I feel comfortable letting them out. But of course, with the 252 00:18:28,350 --> 00:18:33,840 worry of knowing where to draw the lines really. Where is it you can 253 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:38,910 and cannot go in terms of the culture and being a black woman as 254 00:18:38,910 --> 00:18:45,570 well. We already have what's out there, the stereotype of black 255 00:18:45,570 --> 00:18:50,790 women and sexuality. What can be romantic for one woman can be 256 00:18:50,790 --> 00:18:55,590 vulgar when a black woman says it or does it. So knowing where to 257 00:18:55,590 --> 00:19:00,030 draw the lines is all a part of it, really, but I suppose I wouldn't 258 00:19:00,030 --> 00:19:05,010 really say it's just more of a cultural thing, but maybe it's just 259 00:19:05,010 --> 00:19:09,030 me, maybe it's just my writing is where I feel more comfortable. 260 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:14,550 Seán Hewitt: I absolutely love it because it feels so kind of warm 261 00:19:14,550 --> 00:19:19,950 and sensuous in your hands. You know, we often talk about 262 00:19:20,670 --> 00:19:23,820 permission in poetry, and it sounds like that's kind of what, what's 263 00:19:23,820 --> 00:19:27,540 going on. You know, we are talking about, where to draw the line, or 264 00:19:27,570 --> 00:19:32,520 kind of the bravery. I wonder if there are any poets, either that 265 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:35,610 you've read in the past or that you're reading now that feel like 266 00:19:35,610 --> 00:19:38,220 they've kind of given you permission to write in a certain 267 00:19:38,220 --> 00:19:39,690 way, or think in a certain way. 268 00:19:41,730 --> 00:19:46,950 Nithy Kasa: I grew up mostly Ireland, so my secondary schoolings 269 00:19:46,950 --> 00:19:51,030 And where I would have really studied poetry is Irish. The Seamus 270 00:19:51,030 --> 00:19:55,050 Heaney, the Yeats would be the poems that the Irish poems that I 271 00:19:55,050 --> 00:20:01,650 really love. But when you go to the rhythm and the sexual stuff, it's 272 00:20:01,650 --> 00:20:05,250 not really coming from women. Surprisingly, in Congo, it's coming 273 00:20:05,250 --> 00:20:11,310 from men. If you look up Congo Rumba, the Congo Rumba were mostly 274 00:20:11,340 --> 00:20:17,010 poems. The well, the man who wrote most of them, Simaro Lutumba 275 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:23,100 Masiya, he was a poet who wrote those songs for the musicians, and 276 00:20:23,100 --> 00:20:27,540 they were mostly written in the voices of women. So you had men 277 00:20:27,570 --> 00:20:32,760 singing, "I am a woman." Very rarely they ever sang songs about 278 00:20:33,360 --> 00:20:37,860 "us men." It was always about a woman complaining about men, and it 279 00:20:37,860 --> 00:20:41,670 was very raw. I'm not sure. Maybe it's the language, how it's 280 00:20:41,670 --> 00:20:46,380 involved, and some of the words became vulgar, but they would sing 281 00:20:46,380 --> 00:20:50,010 it in a way that it was very sexual at the time. I'm not sure why it 282 00:20:50,010 --> 00:20:52,380 was okay then, but now, 283 00:20:52,380 --> 00:20:56,160 Seán Hewitt: That's interesting. I wonder if they kind of got away 284 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,820 with it because they were men singing as well. You know, maybe 285 00:20:59,820 --> 00:21:02,700 it would have been different if it was women singing the same thing? 286 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:06,110 Nithy Kasa: Yeah, I never thought of it that way. Absolutely. They 287 00:21:06,110 --> 00:21:10,100 sang about everything and they pronounced everything, sexual 288 00:21:10,100 --> 00:21:13,760 stuff, but most of the songs were very romantic and they were women 289 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:23,390 crying. There is a song called "Mamou" [sings] so it's just a 290 00:21:23,390 --> 00:21:27,110 woman crying. It's like, "Where are you going? Like you're leaving me 291 00:21:27,110 --> 00:21:31,130 with the children. I'm here. Where are you going?" The poems that I 292 00:21:31,130 --> 00:21:36,740 knew were songs written about women, giving out about men, and 293 00:21:36,740 --> 00:21:40,730 they were written by men, sung by men. I suppose that's where it's 294 00:21:40,730 --> 00:21:44,600 kind of came from, because they never sang about men against men, 295 00:21:44,630 --> 00:21:48,830 gangster stuff, powerful stuff. They just sang about women, 296 00:21:48,980 --> 00:21:52,910 sexuality and their relationships with women. I suppose that's where 297 00:21:52,910 --> 00:21:53,900 mine came from. 298 00:21:53,990 --> 00:21:58,490 Seán Hewitt: That's fascinating. Yeah, yeah. I'd never heard of that 299 00:21:58,490 --> 00:22:02,990 before, but it's kind of blowing my mind, because I suppose, what an 300 00:22:02,990 --> 00:22:08,750 interesting kind of inheritance to have as a woman, to have had almost 301 00:22:08,750 --> 00:22:15,740 a kind of ventriloquism of womanhood, kind of sung to you. Do 302 00:22:15,740 --> 00:22:18,500 you think that you're kind of speaking back or speaking within 303 00:22:18,530 --> 00:22:19,580 that tradition? 304 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:25,630 Nithy Kasa: I think it's both. I am a woman, and the things that I 305 00:22:25,630 --> 00:22:29,230 thank God I write in English, and don't write in Lingala French so 306 00:22:29,230 --> 00:22:33,610 nobody understands what I'm writing about. I suppose it's the culture 307 00:22:33,610 --> 00:22:39,430 that I love, I admire, that's being carried, but against it as well, 308 00:22:39,430 --> 00:22:42,160 because it's like, maybe it's something that I wasn't supposed to 309 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:48,700 be doing, speaking openly about my sexuality. It's just a no-no. Women 310 00:22:48,700 --> 00:22:54,670 here, I have to say, they are very sensual. That as a woman, I know. I 311 00:22:54,670 --> 00:23:01,690 am, I have access to those spaces of women, and I do talk to women, 312 00:23:01,690 --> 00:23:07,000 young girls and the elders. Women are super sexual, but it's just, 313 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:11,350 you're not allowed to bring it outside and me writing about it I 314 00:23:11,350 --> 00:23:15,040 suppose it's it's one way of going against it. But then again, there 315 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:18,400 is the trouble of knowing where to draw the limits, not only because 316 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:23,110 of the Congolese culture of being a woman, but the Westerner ideas as 317 00:23:23,110 --> 00:23:27,550 well of what a black woman is, and you the stereotype of what you 318 00:23:27,550 --> 00:23:30,760 should and shouldn't be doing. Yes. 319 00:23:30,740 --> 00:23:35,148 Seán Hewitt: Yeah, I think there's something so so gorgeous about the 320 00:23:31,350 --> 00:23:36,450 Nithy Kasa: Thank you. 321 00:23:35,227 --> 00:23:40,029 way your poems kind of put in images, these kind of suggested 322 00:23:40,107 --> 00:23:45,460 ideas, and in some way in kind of cloaking them, that is kind of the 323 00:23:45,539 --> 00:23:50,341 essence of the erotic, right? Because it has to be kind of 324 00:23:50,420 --> 00:23:55,222 hidden. It kind of loses its eroticism if it's all given, all 325 00:23:55,300 --> 00:24:00,260 given away. Okay, to a very different poem after the break, but 326 00:24:00,339 --> 00:24:05,613 which I found out was was read at Jackie Kennedy's funeral, which I 327 00:24:05,692 --> 00:24:10,966 didn't know, but we'll, we'll take a short break, and then Nithy is 328 00:24:11,045 --> 00:24:15,060 going to introduce us to one of her favorite poets. 329 00:24:26,010 --> 00:24:28,350 Cathy & Peter Halstead: We hope you're enjoying this second season 330 00:24:28,350 --> 00:24:32,730 of The Glimpse. It's just one small part of the Adrian Brinkerhoff 331 00:24:32,730 --> 00:24:37,560 Poetry Foundation. We're the founders Peter and Cathy Halstead. 332 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:43,200 Our goal is to make great poetry more accessible to everyone, and we 333 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:47,940 do that in a variety of ways, through partnerships, our film 334 00:24:47,940 --> 00:24:54,480 series, this podcast and our website, brinkerhoffpoetry.org, We 335 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:59,010 hope these works will lure you into a parallel universe the way a 336 00:24:59,010 --> 00:25:03,480 Möbius strip. Life brings you into another dimension without leaving 337 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,510 the page you're on. Thank you so much for listening. 338 00:25:08,670 --> 00:25:12,930 Seán Hewitt: Nithy Kasa, welcome back to The Glimpse. Nithy, what 339 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:14,910 made you choose this poem? 340 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:24,090 Nithy Kasa: It was probably one of the first poems I had to learn back 341 00:25:24,090 --> 00:25:30,090 in the days when I was doing poetry aloud where you had to memorize the 342 00:25:30,090 --> 00:25:36,240 poem and read it out loud. So the poems, one of the poems that I went 343 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:40,500 around everywhere in the house before I slept, before when I woke 344 00:25:40,500 --> 00:25:46,590 up trying to get every word in my head was yeah Ithaka, obviously one 345 00:25:46,590 --> 00:25:47,940 of the very first, yes. 346 00:25:49,020 --> 00:25:51,330 Seán Hewitt: It's such a it's such a great poem. Would you read it for 347 00:25:51,330 --> 00:25:51,690 us? 348 00:25:51,780 --> 00:26:02,070 Nithy Kasa: Yes, Ithaka by C.P. Cavafy. As you set out for Ithaka 349 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:12,480 hope your road is a long one, full of adventure, full of discovery. 350 00:26:14,100 --> 00:26:22,290 Laistrygonians, Cyclops, angry Poseidon, don't be afraid of them: 351 00:26:23,730 --> 00:26:29,190 you'll never find things like that on your way, as long as you keep 352 00:26:29,190 --> 00:26:36,330 your thoughts raised high, as long as a rare excitement stirs your 353 00:26:36,330 --> 00:26:44,790 spirit and your body. Laistrygonians Cyclops, wild 354 00:26:44,820 --> 00:26:52,410 Poseidon, you won't encounter them unless you bring them along inside 355 00:26:52,410 --> 00:27:01,590 your soul, unless your soul sets them up in front of you. Hope your 356 00:27:01,590 --> 00:27:08,550 road is a long one. May there be many summer mornings when, with 357 00:27:08,550 --> 00:27:15,060 what pleasure, what joy, you enter harbors you're seeing for the first 358 00:27:15,090 --> 00:27:22,380 time; may you stop at Phoenician trading stations to buy fine 359 00:27:22,380 --> 00:27:31,590 things, mother of pearl and coral, amber and ebony, sensual perfume of 360 00:27:31,590 --> 00:27:39,510 every kind, as many sensual perfumes as you can; and may you 361 00:27:39,510 --> 00:27:46,080 visit many Egyptian cities to learn and go on learning from their 362 00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:54,630 scholars. Keep Ithaka always in your mind. Arriving there is what 363 00:27:54,630 --> 00:28:01,440 you’re destined for. But don't hurry the journey at all. Better if it 364 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:07,350 lasts for years, so you're old by the time you reach the island, 365 00:28:08,220 --> 00:28:14,550 wealthy with all you've gained on the way, not expecting Ithaka to 366 00:28:14,550 --> 00:28:24,180 make you rich. Ithaka gave you the marvelous journey.Without her, you 367 00:28:24,180 --> 00:28:32,490 wouldn't have set out. She has nothing left to give you now. And 368 00:28:32,490 --> 00:28:40,560 if you find her poor, Ithaka won't have fooled you. Wise as you will 369 00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:50,760 have become, so full of experience, you'll have understood by then what 370 00:28:50,790 --> 00:28:53,460 these Ithakas mean. 371 00:28:55,680 --> 00:29:00,870 Seán Hewitt: Thank you. This poem to me feels almost like 372 00:29:00,870 --> 00:29:05,280 instructions for life, you know, like you could read it at different 373 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:09,870 times in your life and follow it almost as a as a journey in itself, 374 00:29:09,870 --> 00:29:13,050 like you might follow your your path through life. I think it's a 375 00:29:13,500 --> 00:29:18,570 pretty brave move for a poet to write instructions for life, but I 376 00:29:18,570 --> 00:29:23,040 think Cavafy has done that. I wonder. You know, is there a lesson 377 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:26,280 that you draw from this poem, or is it something that you return to? 378 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:30,390 Nithy Kasa: I love it for the very reason you said it's kind of 379 00:29:30,390 --> 00:29:36,390 an instruction for life. And I, I mostly love poems like this. It's 380 00:29:36,390 --> 00:29:40,050 when you read it and you you take something from it, you might be 381 00:29:40,050 --> 00:29:45,120 having a bad day, and it's like, "okay, I can take this with me" and 382 00:29:45,150 --> 00:29:51,840 makes things a little easier, clearer. My obsession with it came 383 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:56,520 from that same reason as well. You said it's very brave for poets to 384 00:29:56,520 --> 00:30:01,440 write instruction while I love poems. Like this. I struggle 385 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:06,300 writing poems like this as well. Because I'm not sure now, but 386 00:30:06,300 --> 00:30:11,280 especially when I started to write, it almost felt like, "Who the hell 387 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:16,470 do I think I am to give people instructions on how to live life?" 388 00:30:16,830 --> 00:30:21,930 I just didn't think I had anything to teach anybody. It's like, "what 389 00:30:22,230 --> 00:30:27,090 do I have to teach the world really? What do I know about life?" 390 00:30:27,660 --> 00:30:31,140 Every time you write something about life, you can't help but feel 391 00:30:31,170 --> 00:30:34,860 "This is a stupid poem. Don't do this to yourself. Don't release it. 392 00:30:35,340 --> 00:30:40,380 It's ridiculous. Don't make a fool out of yourself." So it's very 393 00:30:40,380 --> 00:30:41,070 hard. 394 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:47,780 Seán Hewitt: It is hard, I think it's hard to, you know, position 395 00:30:47,780 --> 00:30:52,670 yourself as a teacher, as a poet, you know, like because often, you 396 00:30:52,670 --> 00:30:55,820 know, the reason that we're poets sometimes is because we're full of 397 00:30:55,820 --> 00:31:02,450 doubts, or we're full of questions and, you know, uncertainties, and 398 00:31:02,450 --> 00:31:06,620 the poems help us figure those things out, or give us some sort of 399 00:31:06,620 --> 00:31:11,930 connection to to the questions that we have. Whereas Cavafy's poem 400 00:31:11,930 --> 00:31:16,880 has confidence. He comes straight in and he says, "This is 401 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:22,610 how life is going to be," which is a pretty big subject to decide 402 00:31:22,610 --> 00:31:27,470 you're gonna get into. You know what? 40-50 lines. My favorite part 403 00:31:27,470 --> 00:31:32,960 is "Ithaka gave you the marvelous journey. Without her, you wouldn't 404 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,890 have set out. She's nothing left to give you now," You know the idea 405 00:31:36,890 --> 00:31:43,280 that it's just a spur to a journey and and that going is the gift, you 406 00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:47,330 know, you know, having a kind of direction to go. And myth is 407 00:31:47,330 --> 00:31:51,620 something that interests me in poems. You know. Do you find it 408 00:31:51,620 --> 00:31:56,690 useful in your work to kind of draw on myth? And how does it work for 409 00:31:56,690 --> 00:31:56,960 you? 410 00:31:57,890 --> 00:32:02,150 Nithy Kasa: I suppose one way to run away from reality is to go into 411 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:07,820 the myth and the fairy tale, and it's a safe space as well, because 412 00:32:07,820 --> 00:32:13,220 it's a myth. Really, it's not real. So it's there for anybody to make 413 00:32:13,220 --> 00:32:17,540 it what they want, and it comes with the whole the scariness of 414 00:32:17,540 --> 00:32:20,900 writing reality of life. Somebody can say, "well, that's not true," 415 00:32:21,260 --> 00:32:24,590 yeah, and well, yes, it doesn't have to be. It's a myth. You see, 416 00:32:24,620 --> 00:32:29,780 you can get away with it that way. So it's safe, it's there. But there 417 00:32:29,780 --> 00:32:34,940 is something about stories as well. I suppose it's just very poetic to 418 00:32:35,330 --> 00:32:39,050 run away from reality sometimes. And I love it. I love it. 419 00:32:39,110 --> 00:32:40,310 Absolutely, do love it. 420 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:45,340 Seán Hewitt: I agree. I think more poets should run away from reality. 421 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:49,870 Sometimes I think we're a bit too stuck in it. And I love, you know, 422 00:32:49,870 --> 00:32:54,850 like you said, doesn't always have to be true. You know, you said you 423 00:32:54,850 --> 00:32:58,870 first encountered this poem when you're doing poetry aloud. I 424 00:32:58,870 --> 00:33:04,150 wondered you know, we all have things in writing that we think are 425 00:33:04,150 --> 00:33:07,390 maybe sometimes getting in our own way. I wonder, do you have any of 426 00:33:07,390 --> 00:33:09,700 those? Are there any things that you need to kind of or that you're 427 00:33:09,700 --> 00:33:12,670 hoping to get out of your own way as you go forward 428 00:33:12,630 --> 00:33:19,080 Nithy Kasa: Loads? And I suppose one we already spoke about, the 429 00:33:19,140 --> 00:33:25,290 sexuality, the taboo of culture is one. You're looking at two 430 00:33:25,290 --> 00:33:29,160 cultures, and you're trying to balance. It's like knowing the 431 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:33,240 limits without censoring myself. It's like, no, you don't want to be 432 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:38,100 shut down and be quiet just because culture wants you to be but at the 433 00:33:38,100 --> 00:33:46,440 same time, you're aware of them, that would be one. When it comes to 434 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:50,130 the art, I suppose the financial side of it that we don't really 435 00:33:50,130 --> 00:33:55,080 talk about is there. I mean, you would love to dedicate your time to 436 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:58,830 write, to do a lot more art, but then you have to make a living, 437 00:33:58,860 --> 00:34:01,530 which the art doesn't really give you. 438 00:34:01,710 --> 00:34:02,610 Seán Hewitt: Unfortunately, 439 00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:07,460 Nithy Kasa: Unfortunately. So being an immigrant in Ireland, it's not 440 00:34:07,460 --> 00:34:11,210 really your country, it's not really your culture. How do you 441 00:34:11,210 --> 00:34:17,330 speak about the Irish society being an immigrant? To what extent do I 442 00:34:17,330 --> 00:34:22,220 get to have permission to speak about a certain matter and where to 443 00:34:22,220 --> 00:34:26,900 draw the line, especially as somebody who comes from the Congo, 444 00:34:26,900 --> 00:34:32,000 and I'm very mindful, I'm very sensitive about that history, and 445 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:36,650 understanding the colonization history of Ireland, and how 446 00:34:36,650 --> 00:34:41,780 sensitive that can be. I think it might be from respect as well a 447 00:34:41,780 --> 00:34:48,020 place of respecting and knowing what to touch and what not to 448 00:34:48,050 --> 00:34:52,760 because I wouldn't. Yeah, it's not that I'm afraid. I can go out there 449 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:57,710 and shock people, if I want to, I can, but I don't want to. Yes, when 450 00:34:57,710 --> 00:35:02,600 it comes to certain matters, it's. I know I can. I can give myself 451 00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:08,210 permission to do it. I have that decision. I have the option, but 452 00:35:08,240 --> 00:35:12,080 it's me saying I don't want to take that option. Yeah, it's knowing 453 00:35:12,110 --> 00:35:15,950 those limits and caring for other people as well. It's important that 454 00:35:15,950 --> 00:35:19,910 it's it doesn't come from a place of fear. They're not afraid, but 455 00:35:19,910 --> 00:35:23,780 it's like, I respect you, I love you, I care about you, not to do 456 00:35:23,780 --> 00:35:28,040 this and do this instead. I suppose that's where it comes from as well. 457 00:35:29,660 --> 00:35:31,970 Seán Hewitt: And what are you working on now? 458 00:35:32,750 --> 00:35:34,340 Nithy Kasa: Working on the second collection. 459 00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:38,480 Seán Hewitt: Second collection, yes, I'm glad to hear it. Do you 460 00:35:38,510 --> 00:35:40,310 have a title? Can you share a title? 461 00:35:40,370 --> 00:35:43,070 Nithy Kasa: I haven't as of now. 462 00:35:43,250 --> 00:35:46,100 Seán Hewitt: Okay, we will wait with bated breath. 463 00:35:48,220 --> 00:35:52,480 Nithy Kasa: I'm still working on Yes, so no, it was a difficult 464 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:56,620 journey. It still is, but I'm learning to let go. The poems are 465 00:35:56,620 --> 00:36:01,380 there. I'm trying to set myself free this time and not be too 466 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:03,360 afraid. 467 00:36:05,940 --> 00:36:10,260 Seán Hewitt: Well, I cannot wait to read it. That is something really 468 00:36:10,260 --> 00:36:15,420 to look forward to. Nithy Kasa it has been such a pleasure. Thank you 469 00:36:15,420 --> 00:36:19,830 so much for for taking the time to talk to me and for reading those 470 00:36:19,830 --> 00:36:23,610 poems as well. And I can't wait to read the new collection. Thank you 471 00:36:23,610 --> 00:36:24,750 for coming on The Glimpse. 472 00:36:24,780 --> 00:36:25,890 Nithy Kasa: Thank you so much. 473 00:36:30,670 --> 00:36:33,520 Seán Hewitt: Thanks for joining us today, I’m your host Seán Hewitt 474 00:36:34,030 --> 00:36:37,030 Nithy’s poem "My People Dance from Their Hips" is from Palm Wine 475 00:36:37,030 --> 00:36:40,960 Tapper and the Boy at Jericho, it was published in 2022 and aired 476 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:42,490 with permission from Doire Press. 477 00:36:43,270 --> 00:36:47,710 The poem “Ithaka” by C. P. CAVAFY: Collected Poems Revised Edition 478 00:36:47,740 --> 00:36:51,940 translated by Edmund Keeley and Philip Sherrard, edited by George 479 00:36:51,970 --> 00:36:58,120 Savidis. Translation copyright © 1975, 1992 by Edmund Keeley and 480 00:36:58,150 --> 00:37:01,660 Philip Sherrard. Published by Princeton University Press and 481 00:37:01,660 --> 00:37:02,740 aired with their permission. 482 00:37:05,530 --> 00:37:10,300 Coming up next week poet Kit Fryatt on being a chancellor, Ezra Pound 483 00:37:10,300 --> 00:37:15,970 as a problematic forebear and the beauty in collaboration. Make sure 484 00:37:15,970 --> 00:37:19,360 to subscribe to The Glimpse wherever you get your podcasts. You 485 00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:21,130 can also find episodes on our website, 486 00:37:21,370 --> 00:37:26,080 brinkerhoffpoetry.org/podcast. We’d also love to hear from you; drop us 487 00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:28,630 an email at theglimpsepoetrypodcast@gmail.com. 488 00:37:32,050 --> 00:37:34,660 The Glimpse is a production of the Adrian Brinkerhoff Poetry 489 00:37:34,660 --> 00:37:39,070 Foundation. I’m your host, Seán Hewitt. Our Senior Producer is 490 00:37:39,070 --> 00:37:42,520 Jennifer Wolfe, Kat Yore is our technical director and mixing 491 00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:46,630 engineer. Editorial Director Amanda Glassman is our curator and 492 00:37:46,630 --> 00:37:50,320 production coordinator. Amy Holmes is the foundation’s Executive 493 00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:55,450 Director, and our co-founders are Cathy and Peter Halstead. Thanks 494 00:37:55,450 --> 00:37:55,990 for listening.