1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,960 The Insect Expo is Australia's largest convention of bug lovers, scientists, nerds, artists, 2 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:10,440 weirdos and everything in between. 3 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:18,560 It's a labor of love of Dr. Burt Candusio, his daughter, Jess and his team at the Central 4 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:23,920 Victorian Regional Insect Collection, and it brings a kitsch, eccentric and homely vibe 5 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:26,040 to the sleepy town of Wood End. 6 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:31,240 For the past two years, I've made the safer pilgrimage to the Buffalo Sports Stadium, 7 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:35,720 butterflies, moths, stick insects and other creepy crawlies in tow. 8 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:40,800 I'm Clarice and I'm an insect taxidermist second and a genetic student at Melbourne 9 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:44,840 Uni First. 10 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:48,800 My interest in bugs started young, way too young to remember. 11 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:53,160 I collected insects and I was lucky enough to have a really supportive mum who at one 12 00:00:53,160 --> 00:00:57,920 point helped me trap a wasp using a picnic basket and a tupperware and subsequently 13 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:01,280 euthanized it in our fridge and freezer. 14 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:05,460 Needless to say, my dad got a massive shock when he opened the freezer to get some ice 15 00:01:05,460 --> 00:01:06,820 cream that night. 16 00:01:06,820 --> 00:01:11,680 As a kid, I thought my interest in insects was weird, anti-social even. 17 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:16,480 Luckily I grew out of this when, as a teenager hosting a sleepover, my friends discovered 18 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:20,920 the insect collection that had been collecting dust under my bed and to my surprise, they 19 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:22,960 were delighted. 20 00:01:22,960 --> 00:01:27,280 Three years ago, seeing the demand for odysseys and curiosities, I decided to open up my 21 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:33,560 shop Insect Emporium as an alternative to working minimum wage at KFC. 22 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:38,120 And I haven't looked back since, it's been a dream job and I'm a firm believer that 23 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:41,920 the people who like insects are some of the nicest people out. 24 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:47,760 However, when Jess messaged me on Instagram about the Insect Expo in 2022, I thought it 25 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:51,360 was some kind of extremely elaborate scam. 26 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:53,360 I couldn't get my head around it. 27 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:57,900 How could there possibly be enough people interested in bugs and other creepy crawlies 28 00:01:57,900 --> 00:02:00,080 to justify an expo? 29 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:05,060 I only became convinced of its legitimacy later when Bert called me up to confirm if 30 00:02:05,060 --> 00:02:06,600 I was interested. 31 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:07,880 I was pumped. 32 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:12,960 I was a 20 year old uni student and I was on the expo list alongside some of the biggest 33 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:16,380 names in the oddities community in Melbourne. 34 00:02:16,380 --> 00:02:23,000 People like Violet Eyes Entomology, Rest in Pieces and Articulated Imagination, all huge 35 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:25,680 names whose work I admired. 36 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:30,800 Over the next few weeks, I grinded my ass off to somehow pass my epigenetics and evolutionary 37 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:37,240 genetics class, in addition to pinning and framing about 40 butterflies and creepy crawlies. 38 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:40,040 Still, I was terrified. 39 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:41,040 What if no one came? 40 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:46,240 Do enough people really like bugs to come to a sports stadium in a little regional Victorian 41 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:50,520 town, buy a ticket and THEN buy a bug from me? 42 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:52,560 What if I'm an abject failure? 43 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:59,640 What if all the other, older, more experienced taxidermists laugh at me? 44 00:02:59,640 --> 00:03:05,040 The expo rolled around on a Friday and lo and behold, no one laughed me out of the house. 45 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:10,240 Bert opened the expo with a really squeaky microphone and people began to trickle in. 46 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:15,600 It was slow by virtue of it being both a school and work day and it was cold. 47 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:23,840 I sold a whip scorpion to a nice young collector who was after something spooky and unique. 48 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:26,800 The next day, however, was a completely different story. 49 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:30,840 I was astonished by the number of people and the diversity of the crowd. 50 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:35,880 Kids vibrating with excitement at stick insects and tarantulas. 51 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:40,260 Collectors young and old scouring the taxidermy stores for Spanish moon moths and deaf-said 52 00:03:40,260 --> 00:03:46,880 hawkmoths, entomologists talking passionately with citizen scientists, people inexplicably 53 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:48,640 dressed as bugs. 54 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:52,140 It was a good day for my wallet but a great day for my soul. 55 00:03:52,140 --> 00:03:57,680 I left the expo that weekend invigorated, convinced that bugs and those who love bugs 56 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:03,040 have the power to heal the world through their sincerity, their empathy for all things weird 57 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:07,200 and their unconventional creative ways of thinking. 58 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:11,480 That's why this year I brought along my bestie Zofia to help document it. 59 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:13,440 Hi, my name's Zofia. 60 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:17,920 I'm a science communicator from Melbourne but more importantly, I'm Clarice's friend 61 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:19,720 from high school. 62 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:24,160 And Zofia, before we get started on documenting all the awesome things here, I just wanted 63 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:26,320 to address the elephant in the room. 64 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:29,080 Do you think that my job is weird? 65 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:30,680 Well. 66 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:32,120 Yeah. 67 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:33,920 Yeah? 68 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:38,160 Yeah, do you think your job is weird? 69 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:42,960 You have a giant Tupperware container of bugs that you keep under your bed and bring out 70 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:43,960 at parties? 71 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:44,960 Yeah, yeah. 72 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:49,360 I find it goes down well when it's like 1am at a house party and people have had like 73 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:50,360 four or five drinks. 74 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:52,760 You know, it really gets people in the mood for bugs. 75 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:53,760 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 76 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:55,000 No, I've experienced this. 77 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:58,200 The Tupperware container comes out, the people love it. 78 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:04,400 And the people cheer, one more bug, one more bug, and I'll pull out whatever bugs I have. 79 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:07,880 You know, and you know, it's always met with raucous applause. 80 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:08,880 Yeah, yeah. 81 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:12,760 Which is, you know, most of these people, while sober, don't even think twice about, 82 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:14,200 you know, bugs they see on the street. 83 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:19,440 So you know, maybe that's the secret to getting people to empathize more with bugs is to just 84 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:21,840 get them absolutely plastered. 85 00:05:21,840 --> 00:05:26,720 Anyway, as I briefly mentioned earlier, I hid my insect collection as a kid because 86 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:31,080 I thought it would cement my status as a weirdo and a freak. 87 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:36,000 But what exactly is weird or freaky about collecting bugs? 88 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:37,580 Maybe media is to blame. 89 00:05:37,580 --> 00:05:43,860 The cultural trickle down of Lolita's creepy lepidopterous main character and Sylvia Plath's 90 00:05:43,860 --> 00:05:46,520 entomology related daddy issues? 91 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:47,960 That could be the case. 92 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:53,480 The widespread and easily used archetype of the cruel and selfish collector who would 93 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:59,560 rather keep beauty dead in a museum than allow it to roam alive in the wild. 94 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:03,720 But how closely do real collectors resemble this archetype? 95 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:09,480 I know I, alongside most other collectors I've met, are animal lovers who responsibly 96 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:10,520 source. 97 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:15,260 But despite running insect aquarium for three years now, I'm still only scratching the 98 00:06:15,260 --> 00:06:16,960 surface of the question. 99 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:20,280 Who are collectors and why do they collect? 100 00:06:20,280 --> 00:06:25,600 And I'm eager to find out. 101 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:31,240 And what better way to do this than to interview a man with over 30,000 insect specimens? 102 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:34,960 Cleve Heard is a collector and amateur entomologist. 103 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:40,320 Amateur here meaning someone who does what he does out of pure love, for what he does 104 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:41,960 is by no means unprofessional. 105 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:43,760 Just letting you know that. 106 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:44,760 Yeah, no worries. 107 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:48,840 But yeah, would you be able to introduce yourself and what you've got here? 108 00:06:48,840 --> 00:06:54,560 My name's Cleve Heard and I've been collecting for more than 40 years. 109 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:58,760 I've got about 30,000 specimens in my collection now. 110 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:04,040 We're conducting this interview in front of a large case filled with hundreds of beautiful, 111 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:08,720 highly sought after bird wing butterflies that Cleve collected on one of his many trips 112 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:10,560 to Papua New Guinea. 113 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:14,840 Many of the cases are built by Cleve himself and he goes to great lengths to maintain the 114 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:19,920 collection and ward off museum beetles, whose favourite snack are the insect collections 115 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:22,160 of careless people. 116 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:26,440 Maintaining his collections, it seems, is a full time job and costly at that. 117 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:30,720 You were telling me earlier that if you had to replace the pins in your collection, I 118 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:32,880 can't remember the figure, could you say it for us? 119 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:39,320 Yeah, I worked it out roughly, it's about $2,500 worth of pins, so to replace the pins. 120 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:40,320 Absolutely insane. 121 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:43,320 A lot of pins, yeah. 122 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:48,800 But by far, the craziest thing about Cleve's collection is that this isn't even his day 123 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:49,800 job. 124 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:53,960 It's so interesting that I think you're transitioning towards doing this as your full 125 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:57,200 time job, but for a long time this wasn't your full time job. 126 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:00,200 No, no, well still not really. 127 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:05,280 I'm a carpenter by trade so I've done that most of my life so I'm just trying to wind 128 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:10,480 that down and wind this up, transition into doing this a bit more full time if I can make 129 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:14,880 enough money out of it to pay for my hobby as well, as well as make a living, that'd 130 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:15,880 be awesome. 131 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:21,680 But Cleve is not just a collector, he also breeds Australian moths as part of his collection 132 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:22,680 process. 133 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:27,720 And in doing so, he documents aspects of their life cycles, some of which have never before 134 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:28,720 been documented. 135 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:29,720 That's so cool, yeah. 136 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:34,280 So by doing that, have you been able to contribute to the body of the scientific knowledge about 137 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:35,280 these moths? 138 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:40,400 Yeah, there's a few scientific papers in the process of being written on a few things, 139 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:47,400 so I'm hoping to get a few papers written, especially on distribution, food plant records, 140 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:50,400 things like that. 141 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:54,240 It's all great, I love it. 142 00:08:54,240 --> 00:09:00,280 In our era of hyper-specialised science, where people such as myself and Sophia have to undergo 143 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:06,680 years and years of late nights cramming for exams, red bull addiction and procrastinative 144 00:09:06,680 --> 00:09:13,040 doom scrolling to become qualified researchers, it's pretty revitalising to see someone who's 145 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:18,920 been able to contribute so much to science while still retaining his love for it. 146 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:23,760 And it's just amazing, someone like you has so much knowledge just from years and years 147 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:24,760 of just passion. 148 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:29,520 Yeah, well when you're passionate about something you want to learn, it's not hard to learn 149 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:34,600 when you're passionate because you want to know and you just remember and it just goes 150 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:35,600 with it. 151 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:42,600 Anyone who's passionate about anything they do, they seem to be able to absorb the knowledge 152 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:45,760 because they want to know and they just love it. 153 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:49,240 It goes hand in hand with all sorts of things. 154 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:55,000 So if you're really passionate and you really love it, you learn, just learn by default. 155 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:58,480 Cleve is what you'd call a citizen scientist. 156 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:04,160 Someone not academically trained in a particular field, but a valuable contributor nonetheless. 157 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:09,200 Looking around the expo, there are many, many citizen scientists and much, much work to 158 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:13,520 do regardless of age or experience level. 159 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:19,200 Older gentlemen digitising the ant section of the central regional Victorian insect collection? 160 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:20,200 Check. 161 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:25,040 Young woman dedicating her free weekends to help survey ant blue butterflies for threatened 162 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:26,760 species conservancy? 163 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:27,880 Check. 164 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:30,320 The list goes on and on. 165 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:32,080 Anyway, moving on. 166 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:39,080 How do you see the role of your collection as opposed to an official museum collection 167 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:42,720 or something like that? 168 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:46,920 Museums have got, in recent times they've had a lot of collections being donated and 169 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:51,680 they're short of room, they're short of staff, they're short of funding as many of these 170 00:10:51,680 --> 00:10:52,680 things go. 171 00:10:52,680 --> 00:10:56,560 But I hope to be able to deposit my collection when the time's right. 172 00:10:56,560 --> 00:10:58,560 I'm not ready to give it away yet. 173 00:10:58,560 --> 00:11:05,360 When the time's right I can deposit it in one of the institutes, many of which in Queensland 174 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:10,480 or Sydney or, yeah, I haven't really got that far yet, but hopefully they'll want it and 175 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:11,480 I'll take it. 176 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:16,480 They'll be interested in the Australian stuff probably more so than the OTC stuff. 177 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:20,680 Yeah, I'd like to leave it to one of my children or something like that, but they're not really 178 00:11:20,680 --> 00:11:21,680 that way inclined. 179 00:11:21,680 --> 00:11:23,680 So I don't know if they'll look after it. 180 00:11:23,680 --> 00:11:26,680 But I'll certainly find a home for it somewhere one day. 181 00:11:26,680 --> 00:11:29,080 Surely, just give it to me. 182 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:30,080 Awesome. 183 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:31,880 Yeah, thanks so much. 184 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:36,960 We left our chat with Cleve with a very optimistic impression of collectors. 185 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:42,120 Cleve was no creepy archetype but rather a soft-spoken carpenter, passionate about collecting 186 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:44,960 butterflies and studying them. 187 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:51,280 Cleve among other collectors and taxidermists, sources specimens responsibly and sustainably. 188 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:57,640 Despite people like Cleve, many are still understandably sceptical about butterfly collection. 189 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:01,040 Nobody likes to see a thing of beauty killed. 190 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:06,720 However, this is where people need to actually be educated on what exactly responsible and 191 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:08,880 sustainable sourcing means. 192 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:09,880 Yeah, right. 193 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:15,400 So Clarice, you're a taxidermist who sources responsibly and sustainably. 194 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:18,400 So maybe you're best fit to answer this. 195 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:22,720 How can killing butterflies possibly be responsible or sustainable? 196 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:27,480 And wouldn't collecting butterflies put those butterflies that get collected at greater 197 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:29,280 risk of extinction? 198 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:35,680 Okay, so first things first, sourcing responsibly means different things for different collectors 199 00:12:35,680 --> 00:12:37,440 and taxidermists. 200 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:43,960 I personally only buy specimens from farms, mostly in Indonesia and Peru. 201 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:48,320 These are farms which are set up on patches of rainforests and they often coincide with 202 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:50,540 ecotourism initiatives. 203 00:12:50,540 --> 00:12:56,840 So these farms are mutually beneficial for both local people and rainforest ecosystems. 204 00:12:56,840 --> 00:13:04,200 Selling farm specimens and facilitating ecotourism allows local economies to bloom and also incentivizes 205 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:10,080 the protection of rainforests, as more money can be made from insect farming than from 206 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:12,600 logging or industrial agriculture. 207 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:17,120 Ultimately, this means that buying insects from these initiatives, you are actually helping 208 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:24,560 preserve insect habitat and it is the destruction of insect habitat, not insect collection, 209 00:13:24,560 --> 00:13:28,320 that poses a greatest threat to insect extinction. 210 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:34,040 These conservation through development strategies are actually recommended by the IUCN, International 211 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:39,660 Union for the Conservation of Nature, in preference to national park strategies when it comes 212 00:13:39,660 --> 00:13:46,960 to developing nations, as they more tightly link conservation with development opportunities. 213 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:52,080 So for us laypeople, what are national park strategies? 214 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:57,880 So national park strategies are basically strategies for conservation which involve 215 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:02,120 completely protecting an area of land and all of the animals within it. 216 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:07,560 So you can't go to, say for instance, Yellowstone National Park and kill bison. 217 00:14:07,560 --> 00:14:14,040 And this works really well in developed countries because we have less of a need to rely on 218 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:17,500 the land for our own economic benefit. 219 00:14:17,500 --> 00:14:22,520 But in developing countries, unfortunately, national park strategies do not work as well 220 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:28,520 because there are less economic opportunities for people and people are more likely to then 221 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:33,160 poach from these national parks in an unregulated way. 222 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:38,920 So that's really, really interesting, but Cleve was saying that he's personally collecting 223 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:40,680 these butterflies. 224 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:44,480 How can personally catching butterflies be responsible or sustainable? 225 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:47,200 What if too many people collect from the wild? 226 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:50,400 Is that going to depopulate these wild populations of butterflies? 227 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:51,400 Yeah. 228 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:54,280 So interesting you mention over collection. 229 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:59,880 Off record, Cleve actually mentioned a study done in the 60s by two biologists called Dr. 230 00:14:59,880 --> 00:15:03,680 Carver and Dr. Detear Menon. 231 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:07,960 The two purposefully tried to over collect a butterfly called the Baltimore in fields 232 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:11,160 in New England and they failed. 233 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:14,040 So this study should be taken with several grains of salt. 234 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:18,940 The butterfly species collected was common and obviously the results of this study cannot 235 00:15:18,940 --> 00:15:22,040 be applied uniformly to every environment. 236 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:27,400 However, it shows that unlike vertebrate hunting and poaching, which generally plummets vertebrate 237 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:33,840 numbers due to long generation time and low initial population numbers, invertebrate collection 238 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:40,520 is far less likely to do so due to short generation time and higher initial invertebrate numbers. 239 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:45,600 And when you say vertebrate hunting, that's what we'd sort of traditionally think of as 240 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:46,600 poaching. 241 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:48,800 So tigers, rhinos. 242 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:49,800 Yep. 243 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:51,560 Gorillas, et cetera. 244 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:56,920 So like all of those animals, of course, have really, really long generation times and they 245 00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:59,960 spend a lot of time rearing their young, et cetera. 246 00:15:59,960 --> 00:16:06,200 Whereas insects, a lot of insects, you know, they have generation times of only a few weeks. 247 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:11,680 The longest generation time, I think, and I might need to be corrected on this, is for 248 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:17,500 a specific type of cicada in the US, which actually lives underground for 17 years. 249 00:16:17,500 --> 00:16:21,480 And it comes up to scream for three weeks and then dies, which is honestly the ideal 250 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:23,840 lifestyle. 251 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:30,080 But aside from these rare exceptions, most invertebrates have comparatively quite short 252 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:32,340 generation times. 253 00:16:32,340 --> 00:16:38,560 So because of this, when invertebrates are caught, it's far easier for them to repopulate 254 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:44,760 an area that might have been depopulated by catching insects. 255 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:49,920 So wild collection can also be regulated and monitored, as is the case in Papua New Guinea, 256 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:53,360 where Cleve gets a majority of his overseas specimens. 257 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:58,980 Now Papua New Guinea is really, really unique in that its government officially recognizes 258 00:16:58,980 --> 00:17:02,200 insects as a renewable resource. 259 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:07,280 And in doing so, a farming and trading agency was established which issues export permits 260 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:08,600 for insects. 261 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:13,760 So it's only through their paperwork, their certification, that sites endangered species 262 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:18,920 are not being harvested unlawfully, that specimens can actually exit the country. 263 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:22,460 So what are sites endangered species? 264 00:17:22,460 --> 00:17:28,800 So sites endangered species are species which are on a list put out by the IUCN. 265 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:33,880 So these are species which are protected species, essentially. 266 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:39,080 They're endangered species and they're recognized as such across borders. 267 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:46,120 So yeah, that's why it's really important that specimens that are site species, endangered 268 00:17:46,120 --> 00:17:53,760 species or protected species, are labeled as such so that governing bodies can actually 269 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:56,800 understand if specimens are being illegally poached. 270 00:17:56,800 --> 00:18:01,760 And Australia is really serious on the endangered species front too. 271 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:06,040 That's why I'm so glad that the farmers I buy from actually fill out all the paperwork 272 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:07,240 for me. 273 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:10,280 What is the paperwork situation like for insect taxidermy? 274 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:14,160 Oh, it would be a nightmare to fill out myself, I'll tell you that. 275 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:20,760 So my paperwork includes date collected, euthanasia methods, species names, how the specimens 276 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:28,280 are sterilized, which is for biosecurity reasons, and also if there are any site species present. 277 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:32,960 Actually one time my paperwork fell off a parcel and I got a really scary letter from 278 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:37,700 the Department of Agriculture which said that if I didn't provide paperwork, my specimens 279 00:18:37,700 --> 00:18:44,880 were gonna be incinerated and I would either get a $10,000 fine or a few years in prison. 280 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:48,480 Luckily I had a PDF copy of the paperwork to send them. 281 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:53,680 Otherwise that seriously would have done a number on my Fitzroy Inner North lifestyle. 282 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:59,480 How would you slay on the streets of the Inner North if you were in prison for smuggling? 283 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:04,640 There would be no Brunswick Street Arleigh Montag, there would be no pints at the Black 284 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:08,160 Cat, there would be no yayas, it would be impossible. 285 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:13,000 I'm not sure how I could deal with being in prison for smuggling wildlife. 286 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:14,000 Smuggling insects? 287 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:15,240 Yeah, no, I couldn't. 288 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:16,520 I would not survive. 289 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:23,240 With a community as diverse and colorful as a community of collectors and taxidermists, 290 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:28,440 it's no wonder that regardless of how legally scrupulous the vast majority are, there are 291 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:29,840 those who are not. 292 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:33,880 And sometimes these characters are the most hot-headed. 293 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:38,640 A few years back when I was just starting to get into collecting, I contacted a seller 294 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:39,640 on eBay. 295 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:46,280 He had beautiful specimens and great prices, but something seemed off. 296 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:49,680 Every message he sent me was angry and choleric. 297 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:54,360 He seemed almost annoyed that I was trying to buy off of him. 298 00:19:54,360 --> 00:20:00,040 So I looked up his username and I found some aged beef on insect.net. 299 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:05,440 I'm so excited to hear this ancient beef from insect.net. 300 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:07,560 This is everything to me right now. 301 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:12,640 Yeah, but unfortunately this post has since been deleted. 302 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:18,520 So we'll have to do our best to approximate its tone and content, sans being specific 303 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:23,560 about the seller himself, as I wouldn't want to misrepresent a real person, but rather 304 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:30,220 to give insight into the petty and outlandish dramas that you can find on insect trading 305 00:20:30,220 --> 00:20:34,040 websites in dark corners of the internet. 306 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:37,880 Without further ado, the aged beef. 307 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:41,840 Username Butterflylover69. 308 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:42,840 Hi everyone. 309 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:48,080 I'm just getting into collecting and I've come across an eBay seller by the name of Redacted. 310 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:54,520 This seller has a great selection on their eBay, but they claim to have around 400,000 311 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:56,160 specimens in their personal collection. 312 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,400 Seems a bit outlandish to me. 313 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:00,400 Username Ornithopsoficionado420. 314 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:07,120 Yeah, I've bought from Redacted before. 315 00:21:07,120 --> 00:21:09,460 Would not recommend it. 316 00:21:09,460 --> 00:21:14,560 He sold me an A1 birdwing with a broken antenna. 317 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:17,000 Username Redacted. 318 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:23,320 And on what basis, Ornithopsoficionado420, should anyone believe you? 319 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:29,840 I'll have you know my collection sits at a comfortable 400,000 specimens. 320 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:35,920 Far more extensive than anything you could ever get your grubby little paws on. 321 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:36,920 Username Ornithopsoficionado420. 322 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:42,560 Yeah right, you fraud. 323 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:43,560 Username Redacted. 324 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:44,560 A fraud? 325 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:45,560 A fraud? 326 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:46,560 How dare you? 327 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:48,920 How dare you call me a fraud? 328 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:55,920 I'll have you know that I obtained my PhD with high distinction from Leap University 329 00:21:55,920 --> 00:22:01,040 and now I am the number one supplier in the United States. 330 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:10,400 How ironic of you, you plebeian Ornithopsoficionado420 to have such a name when I have the most extensive 331 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:13,840 collection of bird wings in the United States. 332 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:15,480 Who are you? 333 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:20,600 Ornithopsoficionado420, who the fuck are you? 334 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:26,040 Redacted's profile picture on insect.net was dated to say the least. 335 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:31,360 It's a seafia-tinted film photo of a handsome young man in wrestling gear. 336 00:22:31,360 --> 00:22:37,840 A quick Google reverse image search reveals it's of the Leap University wrestling team 337 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:40,880 1965. 338 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:46,640 And is sitting front and center, shoulders back, muscles flexed with a neck like the 339 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:50,160 rocks and an intimidating stare. 340 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:56,920 This is the kind of man you wouldn't want to cross, not even 50 years later, on an archived 341 00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:01,760 insect collectors forum populated by meek butterfly nerds. 342 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:04,520 Years passed and I forgot about Redacted. 343 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:09,280 So you can imagine my surprise when one day I was browsing the New York Times and his 344 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:11,800 name was in the headlines. 345 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:19,240 Long Island Man Redacted facing up to 20 years in prison under wildlife smuggling charges. 346 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:24,780 Long story short, after losing his importation license a year before, he'd illegally traded 347 00:23:24,780 --> 00:23:31,840 around 200,000 US dollars worth of specimens, some of them on the Sites list, by telling 348 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:36,600 his suppliers to disguise specimens by mislabelling them as paper ornamentations. 349 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:47,880 Screw US Fish and Wildlife Service, they are a gang of orangutans, he had been quoted. 350 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:54,560 The world of insect collecting can get messy as seen by Redacted's final anti-authoritative 351 00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:56,360 stand. 352 00:23:56,360 --> 00:24:01,480 Forums like insect.net are routinely filled with arguments about all too strict collecting 353 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:05,440 laws and which species should be on protected lists. 354 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:12,320 But bug collectors, even at their worst, most slimy larval state, are motivated by passion, 355 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:15,200 a passion for the beauty of the natural world. 356 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:21,960 And at their best, that is for the vast majority of bug collectors, this passion metamorphizes 357 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:26,320 into citizen science and conservation projects. 358 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:31,080 Thanks for joining us for this week's episode of Thoughts That Bug Me and tune in the next 359 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:35,680 time to learn about the fascinating world of insects in art. 360 00:24:35,680 --> 00:25:02,320 Thanks for listening, see you later grubs.