WEBVTT

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Comedy, I like being funny. I like being regarded

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as funny, a funny person. The notion of, oh man,

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I got to be really funny four times this week

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or I can't pay rent is terrifying and anathema

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to the enjoyment I get out of the hobby. So my

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dad said, find a thing you're good at. make that

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your job. The thing you love, make that your

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hobby. Welcome to Overeducated and Underemployed.

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Fedden here. We got Evan Rossi this week. He's

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a buddy of mine, a comic who you may have gathered

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refuses to make it his profession. We get into

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it. We talk about philosophy of comedy. We talk

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about all kinds of different music. I really

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hope you enjoy this conversation. Before we get

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to that, I got a couple show announcements for

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you. I am officially going to be at AthFest,

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appearing at the kickoff comedy show Thursday

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night. So come say hey. Come check that out.

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I'm also going to be doing a couple other dates.

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I'm working out the final details of that. So

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I'll keep you posted. But I'm doing a few dates

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up in Athens, one of which is announced. I'll

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be at the AthFest comedy kickoff show on Thursday

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night, the 25th. It's going to be awesome. I

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can't wait. for that. That's going to be a lot

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of fun. Next week we got Franz Nicolai who recently

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testified before Congress but of course is the

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keyboard player pianist for the Hold Steady and

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author of books like Band People and Humorless

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Women of Border Patrol. So we had a really great

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interesting talk. Super cool guy. Super smart

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guy. Professor Franz Nicolai next week. Stay

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tuned for that one. Without further ado, here's

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my talk with Evan Rossi. Enjoy it. I'm here with

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Evan Rossi, and he's a comedian, he's a musician,

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and he's a friend of mine for several years.

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And someone I've performed with quite a bit.

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I'm really excited to be here with him. I'm going

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to ask you the same question I ask everybody

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on this show. Okay. To start with, and then we'll

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just go wherever you want. First of all, thank

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you for being here, because I know you don't...

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typically like to be known. No, it's my pleasure.

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But I'm going to ask you the first question I

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ask everybody, and then I'm going to get rid

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of that cat, because it doesn't look like they're

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going to eat their food. But what's the first

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song that you remember loving as a kid? The first

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song I remember loving as a kid, that's actually

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really easy, because I had a crib tape as a baby.

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So I was a victim to a severe earworm from a

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very early age. We're talking months old, six,

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seven months old. As soon as I was ready to be

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on my own in a crib, I think it was my father's

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wacky idea to softly play music in my room at

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night to pacify me. And I think it might've worked.

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And there was a number of tapes. You seem very

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pacified. Oh yeah. And I'm a pretty mellow guy,

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but there was a number of tapes, but one that.

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just wormed its way into my infant skull and

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had a sense memory of it years later. And I was

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like, I love that song. And that was Not Your

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Stepping Stone by the Monkees. Oh, hell yeah,

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the Monkees. The Monkees were an early love for

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me too, I think. I still appreciate the Monkees.

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I think they pulled one of the greatest magic

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tricks in all of entertainment, which was they

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were a fake band that became a real band. They're

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one of the only ones, right? Yeah, they're one

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of the only ones. Certainly one of the first.

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Yeah. My mom was a big fan of the Monkees, and

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so I was definitely exposed to that as a kid

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quite a bit and watched the show primarily, I

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think. Did you start to watch the show as a kid?

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Oh, yeah. No, as soon as I was aware of the music

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when I was four or five years old. I was allowed

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to make decisions about things. I absolutely

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had a copy of that cassette that I listened to

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in a Walkman and I watched the TV show. That

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was also right around the time when they started

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syndicating the show. This would have been around...

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Oh, I want to say 86, 87. Okay, yeah, yeah. Nick

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at night, TV land kind of. I want to say it was

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either Nickelodeon proper or MTV. It was one

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or the other started running the television show.

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And yeah, and so that was the mind blower. So

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I got real fixated on that, yeah. I think years

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later, that was one of my first exposures to

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Frank Zappa. Because he did an episode of The

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Monkees. He did an episode of The Monkees and

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he's also in their movie. Oh, okay. I don't think

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I've ever seen The Monkees movie. They made a

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movie after the show was canceled. It's called

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Head. And this is not an exaggeration. It is

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a top 10 favorite movie of mine. I absolutely

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adore that movie. It's one of two music... centric

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movies that are in my top ten. The other one

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being True Stories, the Talking Heads movie.

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Yeah, True Stories is great. It's been a long

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time since I've watched that one. Of course,

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I've watched Stop Making Sense a bunch. The Stop

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Making Sense concert film is just unfuckwithable.

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It's just fantastic. It really is. The only thing

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that's almost as good is American Utopia. David

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Byrne. Can I outdo myself? Hey, we're going to

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pause for one moment for station identification.

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The Monkees movie, Head. Head. One of your top

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ten movies, period. Period. Yeah, love that movie.

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I've watched that movie more than 20 times. Easily

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more than 20 times. I had a spree, especially

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late high school, early college days, where I

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was just, that was one of the movies I was obnoxious

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about. You got to watch this movie. It's got

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the monkeys in it. Also, Frank Zappa. Also, Captain

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Beefheart does the voice of a cow in a scene.

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My first Zappa record was Bongo Fury. There you

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go. All right. I've got to watch this movie.

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Also, Annette Funicello's in it. Jesus. How have

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I never seen this? This is crazy. All right.

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I know what I'm doing tonight. And the tunes

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are good. I would imagine so, yeah. I think there's

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a couple of Carole King songs. Oh, there's a

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Harry Nilsson. I love Harry Nilsson, man. And

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then a couple of originals. I think one's a Mike

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Nesmith original. I feel like Nilsson got a resurgence

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in the last few years after that song got used

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in Russian Doll. I think there's a cyclical thing

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with Harry Nilsson because so much of his music

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is really prime for movie soundtracks and also

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commercial work. And you just sort of... You

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just end up hearing one of his songs every couple

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years. And you're like, holy shit, I forgot about

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that dude. He rules. I'm not really in the ecosystem,

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but I wouldn't be surprised if Gotta Get Up or

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something became... One of those TikTok. So Gotta

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Get Up was like the beginning of, it was played

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at the beginning of this show called Russian

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Doll. Oh, it was that song. It was that song.

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I'm aware of the show. Unfortunately, I've never

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seen it. It's pretty solid, especially the first

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season. So early on, you're into the monkeys.

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You mentioned, and maybe we'll get back to this

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a little later, but you mentioned you had a top

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10. Is that a readily available list or would

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you be? pulling to oh i probably change day to

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day it there's i think the top 10 is fairly solid

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but it's not rank order that's fair yeah yeah

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i would have a really hard time picking like

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even just my favorite movie yeah that's why he's

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just like i don't have a favorite movie i kind

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of have a favorite 10 or 12 movies yeah yeah

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i can maybe pick a favorite one or two out of

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a genre Oh, sure. You know what I mean? I can

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pick my favorite comedy movie or my favorite

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fantasy movie. See, that one would be very hard

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for me, but what would be, what is your favorite

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comedy movie? I didn't say I had one readily

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available, but I could pick one. Yeah, I don't

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know if I could, I guess is the point. I don't

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know if I could pick a single comedy. Yeah, I

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don't know that I, I don't, yeah. Comedy's hard

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just because I love comedy so much, but I think.

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And you can attack it from so many different

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angles. And I think with a comedy movie, you're

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really looking for repeatability. Absolutely.

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It could be the funniest movie you ever saw,

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but if you don't laugh the second time, it's

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not. Oh, no, very true. So, yeah. There are certain

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movies. I don't know if any of them make the

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favorites list, but there are certain movies

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that. got funnier with the second viewing for

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me. Or they became quotable. It was almost funnier

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to quote it later. Yeah, yeah, I guess so. Napoleon

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Dynamite was always like that for me. It was

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a fun watch, but it was way more fun to quote

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it with your friends after the fact. Quotability

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is fun and has its place. I do feel personally,

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I feel like quotability also accelerates the

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shelf life of the movie. I agree with that. And

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there are movies where I don't know if I could

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even watch a certain movie nowadays because it's

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been, I would say, quoted to death, especially

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a college environment. When I was in college,

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a lot of those movies that came out around then,

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like your Anchormans and what have you, they've

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just been referenced to oblivion. I was thinking

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maybe more along the lines of Clerks. Sure. Or

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even Dogma. Dogma, I think, is a... Dogma might

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be my favorite comedy movie. I got to interject

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really quick here. I think UHF is probably my

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favorite comedy movie, as is evidenced in this

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conversation. Dogma is a classic, but UHF is

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it for me, I think. Right on. Can I admit something

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to you? Yeah. Not a huge Kevin Smith fan. I don't

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know that I would even, I would say that I was.

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But I would say Dogma's probably the best of

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the bunch. Yeah, I would say that I was a huge

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Kevin Smith fan growing up. I would not call

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myself a huge Kevin Smith fan now. I always thought

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they were, I don't have a bone to pick with Kevin

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Smith. They are fine. They just never were my

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flavor. I think Dogma was just so smart. It is

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really rewatchable for a lot of different reasons.

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It's quotable, but not so much. There's a couple

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of quotes from Chris Rock that I think really

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broke through, and maybe a couple from George

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Carlin, but it's not like the whole movie got

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quoted. You ask me the same question tomorrow,

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it would probably change. Or Jason Lee, I think

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a lot of his lines get quoted. Yeah, it was a

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really good movie, too. It's a good movie. It's

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a solid movie. Yeah, for me, Kevin Smith. begins

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and ends with it's honestly it's like it's dogma

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and the cartoon they made of clerks those are

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the two things i remember going oh no this is

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quality yeah yeah it's a real shame what happened

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with that show because they aired it out of order

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and skipped episodes and it wasn't like super

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serialized but i remember the episode that's

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like a flashback episode that they did it's like

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a parody of flashback yeah and it's like their

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second episode But they aired it first. Oh, geez.

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Yeah. Things like that, where you're screwing

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with the format. We're not even out of our first

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season, and we're going to give you a clip show.

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Just the concept of that. That appeals to me.

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That kind of aggressive stupidity. And I think

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that's a through line for me in a lot of comedy

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movies, is aggressive stupidity. If you can be

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as calculatingly obnoxious as you can be. to

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good effect. You're going to make a fan out of

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me. One of my favorite comedies of the last 25

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years is Wet Hot American Summer. Yeah, I love

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that movie. That movie, I adore because it's

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relentless. I understand that the market is pretty

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limited. It's me and a handful of people who

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really like that kind of reality -breaking comedy

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where things will just happen. for the sake of

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the joke, not the sake of the plot. Yeah. And

00:13:13.440 --> 00:13:15.899
will just utterly shatter reality to achieve

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that punchline. I love that. I love that. And

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also a movie that kind of mixes. There's all

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kinds of humor in that movie. You have very high

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-brow jokes. You have incredibly low -brow jokes.

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Dick and fart jokes. And there's physical comedy.

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And there's wordplay. And there's sight gags.

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It's just... I think those are a lot of the same

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reasons I like Dogma, too. Sure. You know what

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I mean? And I think... That answer could change

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for me tomorrow. A movie that I saw recently,

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it's pretty new, that I really loved and was

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incredibly stupid and smart at the same time

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was Nirvana the Band, the show, the movie. I

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haven't gotten around to it. I think it's right

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up your alley. It has definitely been brought

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to my attention a bunch of times. I will have

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to get around to it. Yeah, one day, one day.

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Jump way back now. Do it. Because that's how

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I roll. Let's time travel, baby. Ironically,

00:14:11.580 --> 00:14:13.940
that's what that movie's about. Oh, how about

00:14:13.940 --> 00:14:18.360
that? Yeah. So you're... I lied. I lied. I saw

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the movie six times. I loved it. No, I haven't.

00:14:20.559 --> 00:14:23.080
I haven't. This is why I love Evan Rossi, man.

00:14:23.120 --> 00:14:25.740
He really is... You're one of the most deadpan

00:14:25.740 --> 00:14:29.690
motherfuckers I've ever met. But you never let

00:14:29.690 --> 00:14:32.730
it go on too long either. Try not to. Yeah. Because

00:14:32.730 --> 00:14:37.429
then it gets obnoxious. No, I have been told

00:14:37.429 --> 00:14:41.509
that my entire life. I can't tell you how many

00:14:41.509 --> 00:14:46.690
girlfriends I've had. I never know when you're

00:14:46.690 --> 00:14:50.889
joking. I've definitely gotten that too. I usually

00:14:50.889 --> 00:14:53.169
tell them if it sounds completely ridiculous.

00:14:54.159 --> 00:14:56.460
I'm probably not joking. Or not even steady going.

00:14:56.580 --> 00:14:58.299
This is like people I've dated. They'll be on

00:14:58.299 --> 00:14:59.779
a date and I'll just say some bunch of nonsense.

00:15:00.120 --> 00:15:04.679
Really? No, not really. No. I'm being very silly.

00:15:05.240 --> 00:15:08.639
Can't you tell? We're both really into looks

00:15:08.639 --> 00:15:14.289
maxing. Absolutely. Anyway. You're lucky I know

00:15:14.289 --> 00:15:17.490
what that means. Actually, I feel bad for you

00:15:17.490 --> 00:15:21.669
that you know what that means. You're all worse

00:15:21.669 --> 00:15:24.730
off. If you don't, just keep it that way. Don't

00:15:24.730 --> 00:15:27.330
go look it up. But it has become a mainstream

00:15:27.330 --> 00:15:30.769
thing just in the last month or two in terms

00:15:30.769 --> 00:15:33.710
of news stories about it. Yeah, I don't think

00:15:33.710 --> 00:15:37.070
it's mainstream, but it's definitely in the zeitgeist.

00:15:37.529 --> 00:15:41.529
People are aware of it now. To me, if your coworker

00:15:41.529 --> 00:15:44.080
knows about it. But I'm talking about participants.

00:15:44.779 --> 00:15:47.659
It's still just like... I hope not. I don't think

00:15:47.659 --> 00:15:50.580
it'll ever be a mainstream participatory... No,

00:15:50.600 --> 00:15:54.159
it just seems to be relegated to a relatively

00:15:54.159 --> 00:15:58.220
small handful of dipshits. And also victims.

00:15:59.460 --> 00:16:02.059
Horrible people that have been manipulated into

00:16:02.059 --> 00:16:04.899
intensifying their body dysmorphia or some such.

00:16:04.899 --> 00:16:07.179
And that's one thing that I think is really important

00:16:07.179 --> 00:16:09.879
to acknowledge when we talk about these people

00:16:09.879 --> 00:16:12.730
is like... As horrible as their viewpoints are,

00:16:12.929 --> 00:16:15.590
they were taught to them by grifters and shit

00:16:15.590 --> 00:16:19.529
like that. Absolutely. As a way to cure all for

00:16:19.529 --> 00:16:22.309
their problems, whatever their problems may be.

00:16:22.970 --> 00:16:26.570
Whether it's self -esteem or body image or a

00:16:26.570 --> 00:16:29.809
combination or a third thing. Oh, we've got an

00:16:29.809 --> 00:16:33.149
answer for that. It's strategically ice -picking

00:16:33.149 --> 00:16:36.129
the shit out of your skull. A lot of it's just

00:16:36.129 --> 00:16:40.080
capitalism. Like late -stage capitalism, and

00:16:40.080 --> 00:16:41.759
then they don't know, but they don't recognize

00:16:41.759 --> 00:16:44.480
that's the problem. So then they just have all

00:16:44.480 --> 00:16:48.000
these. Anyway, so you're really into the Monkees

00:16:48.000 --> 00:16:51.620
as a kid. Oh, yeah, I still am. They're a band

00:16:51.620 --> 00:16:54.659
I like a lot. And I don't mean to isolate it

00:16:54.659 --> 00:16:57.820
that you are no longer into them, but at a young

00:16:57.820 --> 00:17:00.360
age, that was like it. Oh, yeah, number one band.

00:17:00.440 --> 00:17:02.960
Number one band as a five -year -old. Yeah, absolutely.

00:17:03.299 --> 00:17:07.200
And then at what point did you decide you wanted

00:17:07.200 --> 00:17:09.630
to? play music does that come like way later

00:17:09.630 --> 00:17:13.250
or was that something pretty young oh I've always

00:17:13.250 --> 00:17:15.789
wanted to be involved in music but I never settled

00:17:15.789 --> 00:17:18.789
on a role and I still haven't settled on a role

00:17:18.789 --> 00:17:25.049
I am a as an instrumentalist I am dog shit I

00:17:25.049 --> 00:17:28.289
have no formal training I don't know a lick of

00:17:28.289 --> 00:17:31.309
music theory I can't tell you what key something

00:17:31.309 --> 00:17:34.869
is in and all of your standard instruments I

00:17:34.869 --> 00:17:37.910
wouldn't know what to do with them I can fake

00:17:37.910 --> 00:17:41.549
it halfway decently on the trombone. I can play

00:17:41.549 --> 00:17:44.150
the trombone fairly competently, but I cannot

00:17:44.150 --> 00:17:47.369
sight -read at all. But if you play me something,

00:17:47.650 --> 00:17:54.609
10, 15 minutes, I can get there. And then I am

00:17:54.609 --> 00:17:58.410
an amateur hand at a lot of weirdo instruments.

00:17:59.289 --> 00:18:02.710
I know how to... That seems really out of character

00:18:02.710 --> 00:18:07.440
for you. I know, right? But I can't... make it

00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:09.920
very musical but i can produce a tone from a

00:18:09.920 --> 00:18:13.740
singing saw so i can't technically play a saw

00:18:13.740 --> 00:18:16.539
just not very well one of my favorite christmas

00:18:16.539 --> 00:18:20.519
albums oh yeah i heard a song the other day on

00:18:20.519 --> 00:18:24.059
v89 that it was like i like the jaw harp but

00:18:24.059 --> 00:18:26.920
it it was like somebody had just discovered the

00:18:26.920 --> 00:18:29.839
jaw harp that'll happen because they were way

00:18:29.839 --> 00:18:33.119
over using it so that then yeah singing saw and

00:18:33.119 --> 00:18:37.099
then also wireless Or not wireless, wired singing

00:18:37.099 --> 00:18:40.079
saw, which is the theremin. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:18:40.099 --> 00:18:44.599
Play a little theremin. D 'Angelo. Sure. Fishbone,

00:18:44.779 --> 00:18:48.640
yeah. The spoons I can play. Yeah. But again,

00:18:48.759 --> 00:18:53.720
but all very amateurish and with not much alacrity.

00:18:53.759 --> 00:18:58.940
But I write a lot of lyrics. Yeah. In the music

00:18:58.940 --> 00:19:03.140
world, if I have a role, it's probably as a lyricist

00:19:03.140 --> 00:19:08.130
first. Maybe a vocalist. Is that what you gravitate

00:19:08.130 --> 00:19:11.170
towards when you listen to music? I am very lyrics

00:19:11.170 --> 00:19:14.589
forward. I am to a fault. Yeah, me too a lot

00:19:14.589 --> 00:19:18.730
of the time. I'll hate on something because I

00:19:18.730 --> 00:19:21.789
think it's bad poetry. And that's not why it

00:19:21.789 --> 00:19:23.230
was brought to my attention in the first place.

00:19:23.289 --> 00:19:25.880
What did you think of the beat? I don't care

00:19:25.880 --> 00:19:27.559
about the beat because I heard the words first,

00:19:27.759 --> 00:19:31.160
and I think they're stinky. Zappa's a great example

00:19:31.160 --> 00:19:34.519
of that from time to time. And he would say,

00:19:34.640 --> 00:19:37.779
I don't care about lyrics that much. The voice

00:19:37.779 --> 00:19:39.839
is just another instrument to me. I'm more about

00:19:39.839 --> 00:19:43.519
the sound that those words make. And that is

00:19:43.519 --> 00:19:48.180
why I can overlook a lot of, as far as much as

00:19:48.180 --> 00:19:52.400
I like Frank Zappa, we clearly do not share the

00:19:52.400 --> 00:19:55.390
same sense of humor. The things that make him

00:19:55.390 --> 00:19:58.670
giggle enough to want to put on a record don't

00:19:58.670 --> 00:20:01.170
really do much for me. I would say the same lyrically.

00:20:01.430 --> 00:20:04.210
Yeah. But musically, like he's one of the only

00:20:04.210 --> 00:20:06.890
motherfuckers that can make me laugh with no

00:20:06.890 --> 00:20:09.630
lyrics. That's true. That's true. So there's

00:20:09.630 --> 00:20:12.549
that. Yeah. And that's where I've always found

00:20:12.549 --> 00:20:15.190
the humor, I think, in Zappa, like personally.

00:20:16.470 --> 00:20:21.230
So you're. Do you think you gravitate towards

00:20:21.230 --> 00:20:22.990
these non -traditional? I'm not going to call

00:20:22.990 --> 00:20:25.990
them weirdo instruments. I'm not going to instrument

00:20:25.990 --> 00:20:28.509
shame you. That's okay. I'll call them that.

00:20:28.589 --> 00:20:32.269
Non -traditional instruments because it is a

00:20:32.269 --> 00:20:36.789
way to be contrarian? No. It just worked out

00:20:36.789 --> 00:20:40.470
that way. I gravitate towards specific sounds.

00:20:41.309 --> 00:20:45.460
Interesting. And the saw. These drones and warbles

00:20:45.460 --> 00:20:47.759
just always appealed to me, and those are the

00:20:47.759 --> 00:20:49.740
things that make them. I think something that's

00:20:49.740 --> 00:20:52.619
a little bit more traditional that I'm just a

00:20:52.619 --> 00:20:56.819
real sucker for is the vibraphone. That's an

00:20:56.819 --> 00:20:59.660
all -timer instrument for me because of the way

00:20:59.660 --> 00:21:01.920
it just rings out and the sustain of it, and

00:21:01.920 --> 00:21:04.859
then you can put some... But it's also motor

00:21:04.859 --> 00:21:08.480
-driven, and I think that's... fascinating. All

00:21:08.480 --> 00:21:10.700
those resonance tubes in the front of a microphone

00:21:10.700 --> 00:21:13.400
have these butterfly valves that are connected

00:21:13.400 --> 00:21:15.299
to an axle, and that's run by a little dinky

00:21:15.299 --> 00:21:17.000
motor, and that's usually the first thing that

00:21:17.000 --> 00:21:19.440
burns out when you buy a used vibraphone. And

00:21:19.440 --> 00:21:22.420
I always told myself if I could find a good deal

00:21:22.420 --> 00:21:25.180
on a vibraphone, I would buy one and then force

00:21:25.180 --> 00:21:28.359
myself to learn it. But it hasn't happened yet.

00:21:28.420 --> 00:21:29.960
It hasn't happened yet. So if you're selling

00:21:29.960 --> 00:21:32.579
a used vibraphone, please reach out to Evan on

00:21:32.579 --> 00:21:35.190
social media. And by reasonable... Stupid cheap.

00:21:35.490 --> 00:21:39.410
You seem like somebody that... I'll do some yard

00:21:39.410 --> 00:21:42.390
work or something if I get a vibraphone. Yeah,

00:21:42.390 --> 00:21:47.289
yeah. I tinker. Screw around is also good. I've

00:21:47.289 --> 00:21:49.970
made several homemade instruments over the years

00:21:49.970 --> 00:21:54.470
for various performance art projects. Some of

00:21:54.470 --> 00:21:57.549
them are just large and obnoxious versions of

00:21:57.549 --> 00:22:03.329
instruments. Some are like chimeras welded to...

00:22:03.549 --> 00:22:06.349
different instruments together there's a video

00:22:06.349 --> 00:22:09.490
i don't know if it exists online anymore there's

00:22:09.490 --> 00:22:14.809
a video i used to have of me playing a drum solo

00:22:14.809 --> 00:22:20.009
with two plastic elementary school student model

00:22:20.009 --> 00:22:24.509
violins okay as the sticks and i'm just clobbering

00:22:24.509 --> 00:22:26.470
the shit out of these drums with two violins

00:22:26.470 --> 00:22:29.670
trying to get a sound out of it i just thought

00:22:29.670 --> 00:22:31.839
that was very funny did it sound Did you get

00:22:31.839 --> 00:22:33.640
a sound out of it? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah,

00:22:33.660 --> 00:22:37.440
absolutely. Yeah. I practiced this drum solo

00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:43.619
for a week with sticks. And then I even did a

00:22:43.619 --> 00:22:46.059
couple of times with yarn mallets because my

00:22:46.059 --> 00:22:49.019
buddy at the time was very well equipped. And

00:22:49.019 --> 00:22:52.279
they had these drum heads that they were getting

00:22:52.279 --> 00:22:55.039
ready to throw out and swap out with new ones.

00:22:55.140 --> 00:22:58.269
And I said, OK, well, can I trash them? And they

00:22:58.269 --> 00:23:00.390
said, yeah, go for it. And so I went online.

00:23:00.730 --> 00:23:06.009
I went on Amazon. I got two $20 plastic violins.

00:23:06.190 --> 00:23:08.470
And I counted off with them. And they already

00:23:08.470 --> 00:23:11.109
started breaking. They already started chipping

00:23:11.109 --> 00:23:14.069
and falling apart on the count off. We just plunked

00:23:14.069 --> 00:23:17.019
the camera down. I said, OK, go. go and I just

00:23:17.019 --> 00:23:22.000
stupid. The strings didn't hurt when they broke

00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:24.920
or anything? It didn't snap back? No, nothing

00:23:24.920 --> 00:23:29.680
like that. It just made a great mess. A great

00:23:29.680 --> 00:23:32.400
clamor and a great mess. I'm going to try and

00:23:32.400 --> 00:23:34.819
find that video. If I do, the link's in the description.

00:23:35.059 --> 00:23:39.680
There you go. At what point, though, do you start

00:23:39.680 --> 00:23:43.619
doing... this whatever it is where's were you

00:23:43.619 --> 00:23:46.160
pretty young were you i mean everybody's banging

00:23:46.160 --> 00:23:49.720
on pots and pans right but so okay so there's

00:23:49.720 --> 00:23:52.119
the main project and i guess i i should have

00:23:52.119 --> 00:23:56.019
gotten to it earlier uh my my timeline here my

00:23:56.019 --> 00:23:58.240
problem i just realized that now but my problem

00:23:58.240 --> 00:24:01.779
in hang up is that my main project i don't even

00:24:01.779 --> 00:24:04.940
consider in the realm of music uh it's more of

00:24:04.940 --> 00:24:09.200
in the soundscape sound design uh realm than

00:24:09.200 --> 00:24:12.200
it is musical it's certainly not tuneful and

00:24:12.200 --> 00:24:15.880
then there's no lyrics and there's rarely ever

00:24:15.880 --> 00:24:18.779
any percussion at all let alone like a drum beat

00:24:18.779 --> 00:24:21.240
or something it's not even you didn't sample

00:24:21.240 --> 00:24:24.500
those violins on the drums set no no i should

00:24:24.500 --> 00:24:28.920
have though i should but no something i i a hobby

00:24:28.920 --> 00:24:34.450
of mine and call it a hobby from very early I

00:24:34.450 --> 00:24:39.569
was gifted a Walkman when I was five going on

00:24:39.569 --> 00:24:43.190
six. Such a sexist name. I would like to just

00:24:43.190 --> 00:24:45.890
point that out at this point in time, now that

00:24:45.890 --> 00:24:48.450
we're woke. It was a different time. Yeah. It

00:24:48.450 --> 00:24:52.509
was a different time. Sorry. And my father had

00:24:52.509 --> 00:25:00.880
found a Walkman for $5 at a flea market. I was

00:25:00.880 --> 00:25:05.940
always hounding them as a small child to play

00:25:05.940 --> 00:25:09.339
a tape for me. And so my dad said, here's a tape

00:25:09.339 --> 00:25:10.759
player for you. Now you can listen to all your

00:25:10.759 --> 00:25:14.799
tapes on headphones and stop bothering us. But

00:25:14.799 --> 00:25:18.400
it had a record function, and I had a little

00:25:18.400 --> 00:25:25.220
dinky mic, and I started taping things. Not necessarily

00:25:25.220 --> 00:25:28.859
off the radio, hardly ever. off the radio. I

00:25:28.859 --> 00:25:31.859
would tape snippets of television dialogue. I

00:25:31.859 --> 00:25:36.680
would tape birds outside, the wind. I grew up

00:25:36.680 --> 00:25:39.700
in South Florida, in Fort Lauderdale. I have

00:25:39.700 --> 00:25:43.880
recordings of tropical storms. I have recordings

00:25:43.880 --> 00:25:48.940
of my parents talking. I hide it under the kitchen

00:25:48.940 --> 00:25:50.839
table or something while my parents are having

00:25:50.839 --> 00:25:53.660
a boring argument, not argument, a boring conversation

00:25:53.660 --> 00:25:56.019
about work or something or going to the grocery

00:25:56.019 --> 00:26:00.059
store. I would just tape that. I would bring

00:26:00.059 --> 00:26:04.059
it to preschool and tape whatever my teacher

00:26:04.059 --> 00:26:07.640
was saying. I would go out and then go out to

00:26:07.640 --> 00:26:10.400
recess. Were you taping over the same tape or

00:26:10.400 --> 00:26:14.640
did you have an archive? No, I had about early,

00:26:14.720 --> 00:26:19.009
early days. I forgot what came in like a brick

00:26:19.009 --> 00:26:21.009
of blank cassette tapes. I want to say it was

00:26:21.009 --> 00:26:22.890
five or eight blank cassette tapes, about an

00:26:22.890 --> 00:26:25.769
hour a piece. And I would just cycle through

00:26:25.769 --> 00:26:28.130
them. And then, yeah, and I very often would

00:26:28.130 --> 00:26:32.990
tape over. And what I learned is, yeah, there

00:26:32.990 --> 00:26:34.849
was no real rhyme or reason to it. I was very

00:26:34.849 --> 00:26:38.369
sloppy in my recording. So lots of things would

00:26:38.369 --> 00:26:43.730
get cut off and butt into one another. I remember

00:26:43.730 --> 00:26:46.630
as an adolescent, probably now fast forwarding

00:26:46.630 --> 00:26:49.970
to maybe 11 or 12, I would start to go back and

00:26:49.970 --> 00:26:52.269
I would listen to those tapes. And it became

00:26:52.269 --> 00:26:55.869
a habit of mine, a ritual of mine to listen to

00:26:55.869 --> 00:27:00.769
those tapes on any sort of long car trip that

00:27:00.769 --> 00:27:03.849
we engaged in as a family. So if we were driving

00:27:03.849 --> 00:27:08.250
up to fucking Pennsylvania from Fort Lauderdale

00:27:08.250 --> 00:27:10.450
to go see. That's a drive. That's a hell of a

00:27:10.450 --> 00:27:13.890
drive. And we were seeing. A wing of the family

00:27:13.890 --> 00:27:16.750
no one really cares for, but that's neither here

00:27:16.750 --> 00:27:18.269
nor there. Did you at least get to go to the

00:27:18.269 --> 00:27:21.410
Hershey Amusement Park? Never did. Oh, man. Never

00:27:21.410 --> 00:27:23.150
did. No, I'll tell you what we did do, though,

00:27:23.170 --> 00:27:25.690
is we would go to the, funny you mention Hershey,

00:27:25.769 --> 00:27:28.549
I forget exactly where it is. I want to say it's

00:27:28.549 --> 00:27:31.309
somewhere in the Carolinas. Okay. There's the

00:27:31.309 --> 00:27:35.089
Russell Stover Chocolate Plant, and my mom was

00:27:35.089 --> 00:27:38.490
a huge fan of that. So we would go there, and

00:27:38.490 --> 00:27:41.390
she would get, I don't know, five trays of French

00:27:41.390 --> 00:27:45.460
mints. That was her jam, was the French mints

00:27:45.460 --> 00:27:48.319
from Russell Stover. And she would just get a

00:27:48.319 --> 00:27:52.599
wholesale shit ton of those. So we would stop

00:27:52.599 --> 00:27:54.759
there. So she wouldn't even guess? She wouldn't

00:27:54.759 --> 00:27:56.359
even get to guess which one she was going to

00:27:56.359 --> 00:27:58.240
get? No, she didn't mess with the assortments.

00:27:58.259 --> 00:28:00.460
She liked the French mints. All right. She liked

00:28:00.460 --> 00:28:03.559
the French mints. No judgment. Variety is the

00:28:03.559 --> 00:28:06.339
spice of life, though. I agree. I agree. And

00:28:06.339 --> 00:28:09.339
then we'd also go to South of the Border. I love

00:28:09.339 --> 00:28:11.279
South of the Border. Just to wrap that up, I

00:28:11.279 --> 00:28:13.119
just saw other stuff in the Carolinas. I had

00:28:13.119 --> 00:28:16.240
an ashtray from south of the border that looked

00:28:16.240 --> 00:28:20.240
like a sombrero. Nice. For years. Just as a quick

00:28:20.240 --> 00:28:25.180
aside, I, for years, as wall decoration in my

00:28:25.180 --> 00:28:28.220
apartment or wherever I was living in, in my

00:28:28.220 --> 00:28:32.420
20s and up until my mid -30s, I had a firework

00:28:32.420 --> 00:28:36.319
that I had purchased at... south of the border

00:28:36.319 --> 00:28:41.599
when I was 16. Okay. And it was called the Flaming

00:28:41.599 --> 00:28:46.019
Wheel of Destruction. And you know those fireworks

00:28:46.019 --> 00:28:48.720
that you nail to a post? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And

00:28:48.720 --> 00:28:52.259
it's a hexagon or an octagon, and you light the

00:28:52.259 --> 00:28:54.740
corners, and it would spin and spark? It was

00:28:54.740 --> 00:28:59.500
one of those. But it was like 14 inches in diameter,

00:28:59.619 --> 00:29:04.210
and it was a hexagon. And the cover was just

00:29:04.210 --> 00:29:10.730
people running in terror from a flaming chariot

00:29:10.730 --> 00:29:15.029
descending from the sky. And there's explosions

00:29:15.029 --> 00:29:19.680
going off. And then giant letters. like an old

00:29:19.680 --> 00:29:23.779
war pulp novel, Flaming Wheel of Destruction.

00:29:23.920 --> 00:29:26.980
I just thought that was so fucking funny. So

00:29:26.980 --> 00:29:31.500
I had that on my wall for ages. Did you ever

00:29:31.500 --> 00:29:32.940
light it? Yeah, then we took it outside and lit

00:29:32.940 --> 00:29:36.359
it one day. Because it was clashing with my decor

00:29:36.359 --> 00:29:39.359
as I was getting older. I was like, I'm getting

00:29:39.359 --> 00:29:42.589
classier in my living room. Hey, I know what

00:29:42.589 --> 00:29:44.170
to do. Let's not throw that away. Let's light

00:29:44.170 --> 00:29:46.150
it on fire and see what happens. And it was terror.

00:29:46.250 --> 00:29:49.089
It was really weak. Maybe because it was as old

00:29:49.089 --> 00:29:51.569
as it was. But also, maybe it just sucked because

00:29:51.569 --> 00:29:54.509
it was south of the border firework. I feel like

00:29:54.509 --> 00:29:58.549
also your expectations when you bought it were

00:29:58.549 --> 00:30:01.190
probably a lot different than what your reality

00:30:01.190 --> 00:30:04.529
was. Especially with the image on the firework

00:30:04.529 --> 00:30:08.509
there. It sounds like it really stuck with you

00:30:08.509 --> 00:30:10.769
for a long time. Were there anything on the tapes?

00:30:11.909 --> 00:30:17.630
That you, like, refused to tape over? Yes. Yeah,

00:30:17.710 --> 00:30:21.029
I would make certain notes, and so those would

00:30:21.029 --> 00:30:23.049
stay, and then I'd fill in the gaps around them.

00:30:23.150 --> 00:30:26.049
So the thing I realized when I was listening

00:30:26.049 --> 00:30:29.730
back to all those tapes is there are a lot of

00:30:29.730 --> 00:30:31.750
these edits that sort of feel like chance edits,

00:30:31.869 --> 00:30:33.529
because they are chance edits, because I don't

00:30:33.529 --> 00:30:35.690
know where I'm stopping and stopping, starting

00:30:35.690 --> 00:30:37.430
and stopping in the length of the tape. So you

00:30:37.430 --> 00:30:41.509
just have things that would... here's a bit of

00:30:41.509 --> 00:30:43.670
dialogue from a commercial. I've got the Walkman

00:30:43.670 --> 00:30:46.470
pressed up against the television. And a thing

00:30:46.470 --> 00:30:48.950
I really liked to do was I would press the Walkman

00:30:48.950 --> 00:30:51.210
up against the television. And this is when we

00:30:51.210 --> 00:30:54.490
still had dials on the TV in the 80s and early

00:30:54.490 --> 00:30:58.670
90s. We certainly still had VHF and UHF dials.

00:30:58.809 --> 00:31:01.750
So I just would hold the Walkman up against them.

00:31:02.190 --> 00:31:05.170
mono speaker of my crappy television and then

00:31:05.170 --> 00:31:07.589
just crank those dials and so you just get this

00:31:07.589 --> 00:31:11.349
it's literally that's literally just the sound

00:31:11.349 --> 00:31:15.309
of the big bang yeah mixed with everything else

00:31:15.309 --> 00:31:18.250
but just running through all the stations and

00:31:18.250 --> 00:31:21.250
then backtracking like finding things that kind

00:31:21.250 --> 00:31:24.869
of work back and forth like especially this would

00:31:24.869 --> 00:31:26.950
be a habit especially when i started elementary

00:31:26.950 --> 00:31:31.390
school i would sick days right That was just

00:31:31.390 --> 00:31:34.410
an excuse to fuck around with that for several

00:31:34.410 --> 00:31:39.009
hours. And I'd go back and forth between a news

00:31:39.009 --> 00:31:43.990
thing and an afternoon infomercial type thing.

00:31:44.029 --> 00:31:47.410
And the price is right. And to just go back and

00:31:47.410 --> 00:31:49.890
forth, especially if Bob Barker was talking or

00:31:49.890 --> 00:31:52.769
something. I'd get three seconds of him talking

00:31:52.769 --> 00:31:57.029
and then flip channels. And you'd also hear the...

00:31:58.109 --> 00:32:01.890
clack of the dial because i'm just holding the

00:32:01.890 --> 00:32:03.670
walkman up to the television so you're hearing

00:32:03.670 --> 00:32:05.210
all that too and you're also probably hearing

00:32:05.210 --> 00:32:08.569
me breathing sometimes or my mom yelling at me

00:32:08.569 --> 00:32:11.809
to stop doing that or uh or like a dog barking

00:32:11.809 --> 00:32:14.589
um so yeah so it was just listening to all this

00:32:14.589 --> 00:32:16.990
and then the kind of chance operation of it all

00:32:16.990 --> 00:32:20.369
i just thought even as a little kid even only

00:32:20.369 --> 00:32:23.089
10 11 12 years old i think i'm on to something

00:32:23.089 --> 00:32:26.430
here and uh and then i i have to give credit

00:32:26.430 --> 00:32:32.720
to my cousin uh kevin uh yeah my cousin kevin

00:32:32.720 --> 00:32:38.400
uh older like a second cousin and he uh saw what

00:32:38.400 --> 00:32:41.460
i was doing and then i showed him the tapes and

00:32:41.460 --> 00:32:48.299
he made me a mixtape of these plunder phonic

00:32:48.299 --> 00:32:51.259
and cut up artists that he was aware of he wasn't

00:32:51.259 --> 00:32:54.099
even a fond of them but he was aware of them

00:32:54.099 --> 00:32:55.619
and he thought oh i bet evan would would get

00:32:55.619 --> 00:32:57.759
a kick out of this. These are adults doing what

00:32:57.759 --> 00:33:02.099
he's doing. And so that's when he showed me this

00:33:02.099 --> 00:33:04.859
guy John Oswald and this group Negative Land

00:33:04.859 --> 00:33:08.740
and a handful of other things and some groups

00:33:08.740 --> 00:33:12.180
where they incorporated that into a regular band

00:33:12.180 --> 00:33:16.380
setting. I think Pair Ubu was something he introduced

00:33:16.380 --> 00:33:20.160
me to. And those all became... Some of my favorite

00:33:20.160 --> 00:33:25.099
bands and art projects or music projects. To

00:33:25.099 --> 00:33:29.039
this day, I don't have enough nice things to

00:33:29.039 --> 00:33:31.359
say about Negative Land. I'll never run out of

00:33:31.359 --> 00:33:33.160
nice things to say about Negative Land, I should

00:33:33.160 --> 00:33:36.759
say. A fantastic group. It's a very John Cage

00:33:36.759 --> 00:33:40.299
kind of approach to music, though. Right. Where

00:33:40.299 --> 00:33:44.000
just anything... I feel like with John Cage,

00:33:44.119 --> 00:33:48.720
it's like a deconstruction of... music theory

00:33:48.720 --> 00:33:52.559
yeah yeah and i feel like i'm operating just

00:33:52.559 --> 00:33:55.539
completely outside of that environment entirely

00:33:55.539 --> 00:33:58.380
for sure sure but i guess what i'm getting at

00:33:58.380 --> 00:34:00.720
is that or let me put it this way let me put

00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:03.539
it this way i feel like there's two there's two

00:34:03.539 --> 00:34:07.880
main approaches to experimental music and one

00:34:07.880 --> 00:34:11.019
is What I do, which is I don't know any of the

00:34:11.019 --> 00:34:12.980
rules, so I don't know what I'm breaking and

00:34:12.980 --> 00:34:14.860
what I'm not breaking. I'm just, I'm having a

00:34:14.860 --> 00:34:17.579
grand old fuck around and I'm seeing what happens.

00:34:17.679 --> 00:34:19.719
And then the other way of doing it is like your

00:34:19.719 --> 00:34:22.340
Carl Heinz Stockhausen's or your John Cage's

00:34:22.340 --> 00:34:25.800
where you know all the rules so damn well and

00:34:25.800 --> 00:34:28.300
so precisely that you know exactly which ones

00:34:28.300 --> 00:34:31.980
to break and which ones to bend. Yeah, but John

00:34:31.980 --> 00:34:35.179
Cage also has that composition that's just silent.

00:34:35.380 --> 00:34:39.809
Sure, 433. And I've heard Zappa play it. The

00:34:39.809 --> 00:34:43.710
only instructions in there is to open the piano

00:34:43.710 --> 00:34:46.949
cover and to close the piano. That's right. And

00:34:46.949 --> 00:34:51.130
everything in between that is music. And I just

00:34:51.130 --> 00:34:55.090
feel like a composition like that gives someone

00:34:55.090 --> 00:34:59.610
like you, not that you needed it, but permission

00:34:59.610 --> 00:35:02.550
to do whatever the fuck you want. That I completely

00:35:02.550 --> 00:35:06.409
agree with. oh you're allowed oh you're allowed

00:35:06.409 --> 00:35:08.050
to have you're allowed to fuck around like that

00:35:08.050 --> 00:35:12.409
yeah yeah it's like it's kind of like the rules

00:35:12.409 --> 00:35:14.929
yeah i know all the rules and they and maybe

00:35:14.929 --> 00:35:17.170
sometimes it's a conscious decision sometimes

00:35:17.170 --> 00:35:20.610
i do think he is also just none of them matter

00:35:20.610 --> 00:35:23.170
and i'm gonna find out what i can do if i throw

00:35:23.170 --> 00:35:25.170
them all out the window that's true and there's

00:35:25.170 --> 00:35:28.760
and again i brought up stockhouse and They did

00:35:28.760 --> 00:35:31.699
stuff where there was chance operation things,

00:35:31.920 --> 00:35:35.460
preparing your piano by shoving things under

00:35:35.460 --> 00:35:38.380
the strings and the soundboard. Ben Folds puts

00:35:38.380 --> 00:35:41.239
thumbtacks, and this is not really experimental,

00:35:41.260 --> 00:35:45.500
but the way he gets his rock sound, he puts thumbtacks

00:35:45.500 --> 00:35:47.960
on all the hammers of the piano. Yeah, that's

00:35:47.960 --> 00:35:53.119
a... I didn't know Ben Folds did that, but yeah,

00:35:53.159 --> 00:35:55.960
that whole tack piano approach. Yeah, that's

00:35:55.960 --> 00:35:59.840
how he got his rock. sound. He'll put those tacks

00:35:59.840 --> 00:36:04.280
on a grand piano. That's what they used to do

00:36:04.280 --> 00:36:09.619
to make it resonate more with your old west upright

00:36:09.619 --> 00:36:13.239
saloon piano. A lot of those are tacked for the

00:36:13.239 --> 00:36:18.780
same reason. It rings out. It's piano, not piano.

00:36:19.019 --> 00:36:22.420
I don't think he ever claimed to invent it. It

00:36:22.420 --> 00:36:27.260
was what he did to get the unique Kind of sound

00:36:27.260 --> 00:36:31.579
that he was after. So I had a recorder and did

00:36:31.579 --> 00:36:34.699
some, but I, I did a lot of things where I would

00:36:34.699 --> 00:36:38.519
like narrate the world. Okay. Like I'd be playing

00:36:38.519 --> 00:36:40.960
air hockey with my sister and I would pretend

00:36:40.960 --> 00:36:44.139
I was a sports announcer. Right. Was there any

00:36:44.139 --> 00:36:47.480
of that kind of thing? Oh no. When did you become

00:36:47.480 --> 00:36:52.239
more performative? Oh. Not necessarily starting

00:36:52.239 --> 00:36:56.340
standup, but. It sounds like all the things that

00:36:56.340 --> 00:36:58.639
were attracting you to music at a younger age

00:36:58.639 --> 00:37:02.639
were very much personal, very kind of, I don't

00:37:02.639 --> 00:37:05.619
want to say isolated, but you weren't necessarily

00:37:05.619 --> 00:37:07.900
performing it for anybody. It wasn't for that.

00:37:07.940 --> 00:37:10.139
No, absolutely not. It wasn't anything you were

00:37:10.139 --> 00:37:12.719
going to release. No, I was embarrassed of it

00:37:12.719 --> 00:37:18.000
for many years. Okay. It wasn't until many years.

00:37:18.360 --> 00:37:21.659
It wasn't until pandemic kicked off. But you

00:37:21.659 --> 00:37:24.090
loved it. Oh, I loved it. It wasn't until pandemic

00:37:24.090 --> 00:37:27.050
kicked off where I thought, oh, maybe other people

00:37:27.050 --> 00:37:32.250
would enjoy this. And I have so much free time

00:37:32.250 --> 00:37:36.110
right now because during the years of the pandemic,

00:37:36.130 --> 00:37:39.849
I ran a coffee shop. I was one of the owner operators

00:37:39.849 --> 00:37:42.469
of a coffee shop. I don't think I realized that.

00:37:42.510 --> 00:37:45.210
And we had to just shut the hell down for months

00:37:45.210 --> 00:37:48.550
and months. Which coffee shop? All Saints Cafe.

00:37:48.889 --> 00:37:52.059
Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. So in that place, yeah,

00:37:52.239 --> 00:37:56.239
no more than my me. And, uh, and also a shout

00:37:56.239 --> 00:37:59.320
out to Michael Lingenfelter and Evan McLaughlin

00:37:59.320 --> 00:38:04.559
helped me run that place. And, uh, and I helped

00:38:04.559 --> 00:38:07.360
them run that place. I was the kitchen side of

00:38:07.360 --> 00:38:09.679
things. I think, yeah, I think that's why, cause

00:38:09.679 --> 00:38:12.920
I would be there a lot, but I don't know that

00:38:12.920 --> 00:38:15.920
I ever ran into you there or knew you. It was

00:38:15.920 --> 00:38:18.159
always fucking slammed when I was there too.

00:38:18.199 --> 00:38:21.130
Oh yeah. Yeah. We don't have anything that's

00:38:21.130 --> 00:38:24.170
like a third space that's open 24 hours anymore.

00:38:24.389 --> 00:38:26.809
No, it's rough. There's nothing like that. Nothing

00:38:26.809 --> 00:38:29.329
like it. And I'm a night owl. I take it you probably

00:38:29.329 --> 00:38:33.329
are, too. I am. I am. And I just miss even going

00:38:33.329 --> 00:38:37.349
to Walmart at 2 in the morning. But anyway, so

00:38:37.349 --> 00:38:41.030
it wasn't until 2020 that you start to decide

00:38:41.030 --> 00:38:44.070
to release your music. Yeah. Really, what it

00:38:44.070 --> 00:38:47.510
was was because I had so much free time, I started.

00:38:48.119 --> 00:38:50.639
going through all my tapes and my tape loops

00:38:50.639 --> 00:38:54.099
and stuff and kind of realizing these are getting

00:38:54.099 --> 00:38:56.219
a little long in the tooth. They're not going

00:38:56.219 --> 00:38:59.440
to last forever. I should start digitizing these

00:38:59.440 --> 00:39:02.000
and just having an archive. And just, so that

00:39:02.000 --> 00:39:04.380
was the original intention was just, let me just

00:39:04.380 --> 00:39:06.699
run these through a computer, get them digitized.

00:39:06.780 --> 00:39:10.420
I'll put them on a external hard drive and that'll

00:39:10.420 --> 00:39:12.800
be it. And I'll have that. And I can dip into

00:39:12.800 --> 00:39:14.599
that whenever I want. And then as in the middle

00:39:14.599 --> 00:39:17.280
of doing that, I kind of realized. Shit, Bandcamp

00:39:17.280 --> 00:39:20.079
exists. Why don't I give that a shot? Why don't

00:39:20.079 --> 00:39:22.099
I just go throw them up there? Maybe one or two

00:39:22.099 --> 00:39:26.099
people will filter in and check it out. And that's

00:39:26.099 --> 00:39:28.860
what happened. One or two? One or two. Yeah,

00:39:28.860 --> 00:39:32.760
I wouldn't say it took off or anything. But anyway,

00:39:32.800 --> 00:39:35.039
the project's called Dactyloid. That was something

00:39:35.039 --> 00:39:38.480
I had to figure out a name for it. I was going

00:39:38.480 --> 00:39:41.039
to ask you how you came up with the name. I came

00:39:41.039 --> 00:39:43.960
up with the name because it started as a joke

00:39:43.960 --> 00:39:46.750
name for another project. Okay. And I just kind

00:39:46.750 --> 00:39:50.349
of ended up liking it a lot. The original joke

00:39:50.349 --> 00:39:54.670
was, it was me and Evan McLaughlin again. It

00:39:54.670 --> 00:39:59.769
was the two of us and I believe a keyboardist,

00:39:59.769 --> 00:40:01.949
but I'm not sure about that. We were going to

00:40:01.949 --> 00:40:07.449
do this very thin, minimalist doom metal project.

00:40:07.929 --> 00:40:12.369
Okay. And the name I came up with was Dactyloid,

00:40:12.550 --> 00:40:15.460
which again, just... It sounded like a metal,

00:40:15.599 --> 00:40:19.559
like a doom metal or a thing. Because it's Greek.

00:40:19.679 --> 00:40:22.920
It's ancient Greek for a creature of many fingers,

00:40:23.079 --> 00:40:26.579
many fingered creature. I knew it was familiar.

00:40:26.800 --> 00:40:31.360
And the dactyloi are from mythology. And they're

00:40:31.360 --> 00:40:36.420
like the forebearers of artisans and craftsmen

00:40:36.420 --> 00:40:40.059
in some mythologies. So that was the dactyloi.

00:40:40.219 --> 00:40:42.920
And so I think originally it was the dactyloi.

00:40:43.440 --> 00:40:48.300
And the joke of it was we were a piss take band

00:40:48.300 --> 00:40:50.820
to begin with. We were like this three piece.

00:40:51.059 --> 00:40:55.780
We wanted to do like if the Carpenters were a

00:40:55.780 --> 00:41:00.960
doom metal band was the concept. And the joke,

00:41:00.980 --> 00:41:03.800
this joke that I really wanted to realize was

00:41:03.800 --> 00:41:07.320
I wanted to make the logo for the band. And I

00:41:07.320 --> 00:41:09.800
didn't want it to look like a pile of yard trash.

00:41:10.480 --> 00:41:12.980
I wanted, you know what I'm talking about? Every

00:41:12.980 --> 00:41:15.800
metal. Yeah. It's all the Chris. It's cool. There's

00:41:15.800 --> 00:41:18.400
an aesthetic to it. I'm not knocking it, but

00:41:18.400 --> 00:41:21.159
I just thought you have to have some limbs, disembodied

00:41:21.159 --> 00:41:23.440
limbs in that trash pile. So I remember saying

00:41:23.440 --> 00:41:25.559
at the time where we were trying, I said, I'm

00:41:25.559 --> 00:41:28.860
going to make the logo and by God, it's going

00:41:28.860 --> 00:41:33.269
to be in. gill sands condensed font it's just

00:41:33.269 --> 00:41:36.010
gonna be legible and i'm gonna put and there's

00:41:36.010 --> 00:41:38.530
gonna it's gonna be colorful and so i made this

00:41:38.530 --> 00:41:42.510
logo and uh and the band never took on the band

00:41:42.510 --> 00:41:44.469
never materialized we never even had a single

00:41:44.469 --> 00:41:47.929
practice we just only got stoned and talked about

00:41:47.929 --> 00:41:51.230
it but i had this logo ready to go and i just

00:41:51.230 --> 00:41:53.610
thought i'll just swap this over to this cut

00:41:53.610 --> 00:41:56.469
and paste project i've been doing so yeah uh

00:41:56.469 --> 00:41:59.309
yeah so i thought There's something to these

00:41:59.309 --> 00:42:01.929
tapes when I was a little kid. By the time I'm

00:42:01.929 --> 00:42:05.989
like 15, 16, I start learning about signal processing

00:42:05.989 --> 00:42:09.949
and audio manipulation and things. And really,

00:42:10.010 --> 00:42:12.869
that's just a fancy way of saying I bought a

00:42:12.869 --> 00:42:15.250
bunch of really cheap guitar pedals. Yeah, and

00:42:15.250 --> 00:42:18.050
went to Radio Shack. And I went to Radio Shack

00:42:18.050 --> 00:42:23.510
and bought some components and learned how to

00:42:23.510 --> 00:42:29.099
solder. And then learned what looping was. And

00:42:29.099 --> 00:42:31.659
I started making my own razor tape loops that

00:42:31.659 --> 00:42:35.019
could play infinitely on a cassette. And I'd

00:42:35.019 --> 00:42:37.219
start playing those back into, I would run that

00:42:37.219 --> 00:42:40.039
off of a boom box. And then I had the same old

00:42:40.039 --> 00:42:43.039
Sony Walkman that I had from the 80s. And I'd

00:42:43.039 --> 00:42:45.679
push that up against the boom box. And I just,

00:42:45.760 --> 00:42:48.199
so it's just tape being bounced to tape being

00:42:48.199 --> 00:42:49.960
bounced to tape and also being like pushed through

00:42:49.960 --> 00:42:53.480
the air. So it's like, it is incredibly lo -fi.

00:42:53.780 --> 00:42:57.309
And then I would take. rudimentary this is now

00:42:57.309 --> 00:43:00.670
we're talking about the mid late 90s rudimentary

00:43:00.670 --> 00:43:04.730
affordable delay pedals and echo pedals and distortion

00:43:04.730 --> 00:43:08.090
pedals and chorus pedals and phaser pedals pretty

00:43:08.090 --> 00:43:10.989
much anything that boss or dan electro made and

00:43:10.989 --> 00:43:13.389
i would go and go and get them for maybe 10 15

00:43:13.389 --> 00:43:17.949
bucks a pop at a pawn shop or the swap shop open

00:43:17.949 --> 00:43:21.800
air flea market uh in fort lauderdale and and

00:43:21.800 --> 00:43:23.719
i just bring those home and i daisy chain them

00:43:23.719 --> 00:43:25.699
all together figure out how they worked and what

00:43:25.699 --> 00:43:28.880
they did and try to feed my tape because i wanted

00:43:28.880 --> 00:43:32.900
i liked the crispness but i also wanted to obfuscate

00:43:32.900 --> 00:43:35.659
the sources of a lot of the audio if that makes

00:43:35.659 --> 00:43:37.940
sense yeah for sure so i thought now it would

00:43:37.940 --> 00:43:40.539
be for like copyright reasons like sure back

00:43:40.539 --> 00:43:42.260
then it was but before i just thought like oh

00:43:42.260 --> 00:43:44.659
this would be nice but there's gaps and i don't

00:43:44.659 --> 00:43:47.820
want to i don't want to i I can't edit the tape

00:43:47.820 --> 00:43:50.059
that finely just to eliminate these gaps because

00:43:50.059 --> 00:43:51.880
then the tape would just be shredded and useless.

00:43:52.739 --> 00:43:56.559
Oh, what if I put just incredibly heavy reverb

00:43:56.559 --> 00:44:01.400
on this and bleed the audio and fill in those

00:44:01.400 --> 00:44:05.260
gaps with delay and echo and reverb? And then

00:44:05.260 --> 00:44:07.659
I would listen to those back. I went, well, shit,

00:44:07.699 --> 00:44:10.739
I love this. I don't think anyone else would

00:44:10.739 --> 00:44:14.019
enjoy this, but I love it. And then high school

00:44:14.019 --> 00:44:19.469
happened. and this is just like a repeat of me

00:44:19.469 --> 00:44:22.829
as a little kid with my cousin Kevin. When I

00:44:22.829 --> 00:44:26.949
got to high school, I also got the internet.

00:44:27.510 --> 00:44:30.969
The real internet, the web, the one that everyone

00:44:30.969 --> 00:44:34.909
knows about. Another quick digression. Were you

00:44:34.909 --> 00:44:37.789
an IRC kid? Yeah. Hell yeah, brother. Oh, yeah.

00:44:38.570 --> 00:44:44.679
And IRC, ICQ. And then I'll go on all the way

00:44:44.679 --> 00:44:46.980
back to Usenet. I did a lot of Usenet. And then

00:44:46.980 --> 00:44:51.880
prior to that, BBSs. My father was a very early

00:44:51.880 --> 00:44:54.539
adopter for the internet. He saw the potential

00:44:54.539 --> 00:44:58.960
of that in the 80s. We had a 2400 baud cradle

00:44:58.960 --> 00:45:03.519
modem in 1989. And that was when you, to my knowledge,

00:45:03.659 --> 00:45:06.139
you could access two things with that modem.

00:45:06.139 --> 00:45:09.460
And it was this, and one was, and the one I used

00:45:09.460 --> 00:45:14.440
was porn. Oh, hell no. This is not graphic internet.

00:45:14.659 --> 00:45:17.280
This is all ASCII. So if it was porn, it would

00:45:17.280 --> 00:45:22.059
be made out of A's and asterisks and ampersands

00:45:22.059 --> 00:45:24.780
and shit. But no, it totally existed. In the

00:45:24.780 --> 00:45:28.340
90s. It totally existed. I was going to say it

00:45:28.340 --> 00:45:31.099
had to. But I was too young for it. I hadn't

00:45:31.099 --> 00:45:34.500
had my sexual awakening in 1989. But one of the

00:45:34.500 --> 00:45:38.420
things that you could access with the early non

00:45:38.420 --> 00:45:41.159
-graphical internet was... the card catalog of

00:45:41.159 --> 00:45:43.659
the Broward County public library system. And

00:45:43.659 --> 00:45:45.719
I don't know if you could tell from, uh, how

00:45:45.719 --> 00:45:48.739
this podcast has been going so far in my cadence,

00:45:48.780 --> 00:45:53.059
but I'm a fucking nerd. Yeah. Yeah. And so I

00:45:53.059 --> 00:45:55.420
love it. That's why we've always gotten along.

00:45:55.880 --> 00:45:58.730
So I was like, oh, I can go and do this at home

00:45:58.730 --> 00:46:00.750
and write down all the card catalog numbers and

00:46:00.750 --> 00:46:03.469
then just show up like a fucking boss to the

00:46:03.469 --> 00:46:05.489
library and just go, I'd like these titles, please,

00:46:05.510 --> 00:46:07.789
or I'll go find them myself. It saved me to have

00:46:07.789 --> 00:46:09.650
to hunt in their physical card catalog. You did

00:46:09.650 --> 00:46:12.070
not have Conan the Librarian after you. No, no,

00:46:12.070 --> 00:46:15.710
I kept my head on. Also, I was very fastidious

00:46:15.710 --> 00:46:20.070
about late fees and stuff. I would be mortified

00:46:20.070 --> 00:46:24.030
if I had a book go overdue. Because again, huge

00:46:24.030 --> 00:46:27.929
nerd. And also an adult pleaser. very much growing

00:46:27.929 --> 00:46:32.090
up like big on rules in general as a kid or was

00:46:32.090 --> 00:46:35.570
it just like that personal responsibility with

00:46:35.570 --> 00:46:38.070
the library yeah personal responsibility that

00:46:38.070 --> 00:46:41.570
way more so than rules i needed to have i was

00:46:41.570 --> 00:46:44.070
obnoxious in a way that i'm still obnoxious where

00:46:44.070 --> 00:46:47.150
i kind of demand to have the whys and hows of

00:46:47.150 --> 00:46:49.820
rules explained to me Not so they make sense

00:46:49.820 --> 00:46:53.579
to me, but it's justify the rule to me. I'm the

00:46:53.579 --> 00:46:56.739
same way. Justify the rule to me or I'm going

00:46:56.739 --> 00:47:00.500
to play it fast and loose. If you fail to justify

00:47:00.500 --> 00:47:02.820
that rule to me, I'm going to disregard and not

00:47:02.820 --> 00:47:04.679
respect that rule. That's how I've always been.

00:47:04.760 --> 00:47:09.119
But I've always tried to please people. And as

00:47:09.119 --> 00:47:13.400
a kid, I was very into making adults like me.

00:47:14.940 --> 00:47:17.500
I was always a teacher's pet kind of thing, too.

00:47:17.719 --> 00:47:21.320
But in an annoying way. Oh, absolutely. Yeah.

00:47:22.000 --> 00:47:25.840
They didn't like it. Yeah. It was like they tolerated

00:47:25.840 --> 00:47:27.960
it. Yeah. Because it was like if I wasn't the

00:47:27.960 --> 00:47:29.420
teacher's pet, it would have been way worse.

00:47:29.639 --> 00:47:32.559
See, I was too weird for the teacher's pet. It

00:47:32.559 --> 00:47:35.619
was definitely more of a Klaus clown than teacher's

00:47:35.619 --> 00:47:37.820
pet if I had to pick one or the other. I think

00:47:37.820 --> 00:47:40.800
I just danced on that line. Yeah. That's kind

00:47:40.800 --> 00:47:44.030
of how it was for me. But again, the nerd shit

00:47:44.030 --> 00:47:46.190
would come out and my grades would be too good

00:47:46.190 --> 00:47:48.590
for anyone to say anything. See, I never got

00:47:48.590 --> 00:47:51.730
good grades until, but see, I was undiagnosed

00:47:51.730 --> 00:47:54.909
with ADHD and all this stuff as a kid. And so

00:47:54.909 --> 00:47:57.329
a lot of it makes sense to me now, but I got

00:47:57.329 --> 00:48:00.409
terrible grades in school until I got to college

00:48:00.409 --> 00:48:02.769
and I got to pick my classes and it was much

00:48:02.769 --> 00:48:06.369
more like an autonomous kind of thing. Oh, but

00:48:06.369 --> 00:48:10.530
back to the internet. Yeah. We got. Now it's

00:48:10.530 --> 00:48:14.949
1997, 1998, and I have America Online, right?

00:48:15.349 --> 00:48:17.530
Yeah, man. Do you still remember your screen

00:48:17.530 --> 00:48:22.769
name? Ranma 518. Mine was Frogbender 2000 based

00:48:22.769 --> 00:48:26.809
on the Joe cartoon Frog in a Blender. Ah, yes.

00:48:27.409 --> 00:48:30.690
Ranma 518 was based on an anime called Ranma

00:48:30.690 --> 00:48:34.190
1 .5 that I was exposed to in middle school and

00:48:34.190 --> 00:48:39.789
became very fixated on. And then 518 is my initials.

00:48:39.789 --> 00:48:41.769
E is the fifth letter of the alphabet. R is the

00:48:41.769 --> 00:48:45.369
18th letter of the alphabet. And then Applecart

00:48:45.369 --> 00:48:48.670
was my other handle. Applecart was my Usenet

00:48:48.670 --> 00:48:53.090
and IRC and ICQ handles was Applecart. Go find

00:48:53.090 --> 00:48:58.010
all of his, the old posts. Oh, yeah. And I believe

00:48:58.010 --> 00:49:01.300
I'm overturned Applecart. currently on Reddit,

00:49:01.440 --> 00:49:04.960
but I don't really use Reddit much these days.

00:49:05.000 --> 00:49:07.219
I'm going to bleep that one just for your own

00:49:07.219 --> 00:49:12.000
sake. Reddit is supposed to be anonymous. I genuinely

00:49:12.000 --> 00:49:14.599
don't care. Do whatever you want with it. One

00:49:14.599 --> 00:49:17.820
thing that struck me about all of the things

00:49:17.820 --> 00:49:21.380
that you're talking about on your music, your

00:49:21.380 --> 00:49:26.079
early music stuff, is what The similarity between

00:49:26.079 --> 00:49:28.019
that... There's someone at the door, but I don't

00:49:28.019 --> 00:49:31.099
care. I'm not expecting them. The similarity

00:49:31.099 --> 00:49:35.539
between that and the early Flaming Lips, Zareka

00:49:35.539 --> 00:49:38.559
kind of stuff. I am going to just peek and see

00:49:38.559 --> 00:49:41.500
what's up. Not a problem. And I'll riff for a

00:49:41.500 --> 00:49:45.119
sec. So with that internet, with America Online

00:49:45.119 --> 00:49:48.360
and the graphical internet, I started seeing

00:49:48.360 --> 00:49:53.000
forums and message boards about... Kind of things

00:49:53.000 --> 00:49:54.920
that were adjacent to the things I was doing.

00:49:56.679 --> 00:49:59.079
They had nothing but a cell phone in their hand.

00:49:59.380 --> 00:50:02.780
Oh. But I'll say a big revelation for me with

00:50:02.780 --> 00:50:07.559
the internet was discovering Nurse with Wound,

00:50:07.780 --> 00:50:12.239
who is primarily a solo project of this dude

00:50:12.239 --> 00:50:14.079
Stephen Stapleton. He's been doing it since,

00:50:14.159 --> 00:50:17.960
I want to say, the late 70s. Okay. And I heard

00:50:17.960 --> 00:50:20.119
that for the first time. And also file sharing

00:50:20.119 --> 00:50:23.059
systems were kind of just coming online. So this

00:50:23.059 --> 00:50:25.500
is like one of the first things I used to do

00:50:25.500 --> 00:50:32.059
with Napster. Yeah. Was find all this outsider

00:50:32.059 --> 00:50:35.480
stuff. And I found these nurse with wound records.

00:50:36.159 --> 00:50:40.099
And then I also found a lot of harsh noise around

00:50:40.099 --> 00:50:43.860
the same time. And I got very fixated on those.

00:50:43.940 --> 00:50:47.239
Excuse me for one moment. You weren't really

00:50:47.239 --> 00:50:49.699
aware of what the Flaming Lips were doing at

00:50:49.699 --> 00:50:52.519
that time, though. Oh, no. I was aware of Zyreka.

00:50:52.699 --> 00:50:56.820
When it was contemporary, around the time they

00:50:56.820 --> 00:50:59.199
were doing it? Because it sounds like around

00:50:59.199 --> 00:51:01.199
the same time you were doing a lot of your tape

00:51:01.199 --> 00:51:04.900
loops. I think I became aware of Zyreka around

00:51:04.900 --> 00:51:08.380
2000. Okay. Yeah, I'm sorry. I got a little distracted

00:51:08.380 --> 00:51:11.360
when I said that. And that's a lot of fun. Yeah,

00:51:11.420 --> 00:51:15.469
it really is. And we tried to replicate. What

00:51:15.469 --> 00:51:18.469
they were doing with Zyreka, I didn't have a

00:51:18.469 --> 00:51:22.630
car, but I had friends who did. Around 2000 now,

00:51:22.670 --> 00:51:24.929
I had friends who were old enough to drive and

00:51:24.929 --> 00:51:27.730
had a car. And we would coordinate. They were

00:51:27.730 --> 00:51:31.769
very, they indulged me a lot. I had good friends.

00:51:31.929 --> 00:51:33.909
I had good friends because I'd say, hey, guys,

00:51:33.949 --> 00:51:36.449
I have a plan. And they would indulge me in this

00:51:36.449 --> 00:51:39.170
ridiculous plan, whatever it was. And a couple

00:51:39.170 --> 00:51:42.420
of times it involved. Me rounding up my buddy

00:51:42.420 --> 00:51:45.980
Victor, my buddy Gregorio, and Robert and Tim,

00:51:46.119 --> 00:51:48.719
and they had cars. And we'd go, all four of us

00:51:48.719 --> 00:51:52.079
would go drive to a parking garage and put one

00:51:52.079 --> 00:51:56.619
disc of Zyreka in each car stereo system and

00:51:56.619 --> 00:51:59.119
then just open all four doors and kind of park

00:51:59.119 --> 00:52:02.340
in a semicircle and then just let it rip. And

00:52:02.340 --> 00:52:05.840
then we would just get very baked at one in the

00:52:05.840 --> 00:52:10.269
morning. at a parking garage and listen to Zyreka.

00:52:10.449 --> 00:52:13.630
So yeah, that was very important to me at the

00:52:13.630 --> 00:52:16.530
time. And just to fill the listeners in, the

00:52:16.530 --> 00:52:18.869
original Zyreka, before they put it out on four

00:52:18.869 --> 00:52:21.849
discs, they were doing these parking garage parties

00:52:21.849 --> 00:52:24.309
where they would pull up 20, Flaming Lips would

00:52:24.309 --> 00:52:26.250
pull up, get a bunch of people to pull up 20

00:52:26.250 --> 00:52:28.369
cars and each of them would put in a different

00:52:28.369 --> 00:52:31.409
cassette. They talk about it in their documentary,

00:52:31.630 --> 00:52:33.969
The Fearless Freaks, which I highly recommend.

00:52:34.070 --> 00:52:35.449
There's a bunch of footage of that. I have not

00:52:35.449 --> 00:52:38.869
seen it. I'm glad I can recommend a music movie

00:52:38.869 --> 00:52:41.429
for you because there's footage of these parking

00:52:41.429 --> 00:52:44.309
garage parties. Oh, right on. I think it'd be

00:52:44.309 --> 00:52:46.730
right up your alley to at least watch that portion

00:52:46.730 --> 00:52:49.789
of it. Because what they were doing was they

00:52:49.789 --> 00:52:51.809
were making all these dynamic sounds from all

00:52:51.809 --> 00:52:53.349
these different audio sources that were supposed

00:52:53.349 --> 00:52:57.170
to come together and make this one sound. And

00:52:57.170 --> 00:52:59.489
I just wanted to like, we dove into it because

00:52:59.489 --> 00:53:01.449
we both knew what the fuck we were talking about.

00:53:01.570 --> 00:53:03.929
But just for the listeners at home that's never

00:53:03.929 --> 00:53:06.429
heard of that. It's something that I tried to

00:53:06.429 --> 00:53:09.190
replicate once as well, but at home with, I had

00:53:09.190 --> 00:53:12.469
friends bring over boom boxes and we never quite

00:53:12.469 --> 00:53:15.409
got it to work because there would be that thing

00:53:15.409 --> 00:53:18.269
where some CD players would have a two second

00:53:18.269 --> 00:53:20.670
gap between CD, between tracks. That's right.

00:53:20.710 --> 00:53:22.769
And that would always fuck it. Somebody's would

00:53:22.769 --> 00:53:26.489
always fuck it up for us. I made a, the first

00:53:26.489 --> 00:53:30.030
radio station I worked for, I interned at as

00:53:30.030 --> 00:53:33.050
a teenager and then left. Was it down in Fort

00:53:33.050 --> 00:53:35.800
Lauderdale? Down in Fort Lauderdale. I made a

00:53:35.800 --> 00:53:40.860
mix down of Zyreka so you could just play it

00:53:40.860 --> 00:53:43.139
on the radio. Hell yeah. And to have it intact.

00:53:43.679 --> 00:53:47.280
But even back then, it didn't even cross my mind

00:53:47.280 --> 00:53:51.920
to show my friends the Dactyloid stuff. Because

00:53:51.920 --> 00:53:54.659
even Zyreka was about as weird as they were willing

00:53:54.659 --> 00:53:56.619
to get. And at the end of the day, it's still

00:53:56.619 --> 00:54:00.320
music. It's still guitars and a full band set.

00:54:00.940 --> 00:54:04.550
And vocals even. So was this like a secret? Oh,

00:54:04.550 --> 00:54:07.690
it was a whole lot. Nobody knew about it? Just

00:54:07.690 --> 00:54:10.349
my family. Just my immediate family. My brother

00:54:10.349 --> 00:54:12.190
and my parents knew about it because they would

00:54:12.190 --> 00:54:14.650
watch me do it all the time. But yeah, no, I

00:54:14.650 --> 00:54:16.949
didn't tell anybody. It was my personal private

00:54:16.949 --> 00:54:19.829
hobby. Was it something that you wanted to keep

00:54:19.829 --> 00:54:21.969
a secret? If somebody had found out about it,

00:54:21.989 --> 00:54:25.280
would you have been devastated? I think I joked

00:54:25.280 --> 00:54:27.659
earlier that may not have came across as a joke

00:54:27.659 --> 00:54:30.219
that I was mortified about it or embarrassed

00:54:30.219 --> 00:54:32.000
by it. I really wasn't. No, it was like a point

00:54:32.000 --> 00:54:33.639
of pride. I was like, no, this is my private

00:54:33.639 --> 00:54:37.480
thing. This is for me, not for you. This is for

00:54:37.480 --> 00:54:41.139
me. And yeah, that's kind of how it went. Gotcha.

00:54:41.260 --> 00:54:43.599
Yeah. My friend Red, and he's been on the show.

00:54:43.619 --> 00:54:46.300
He's in a band called Red and the Revelers. Classically

00:54:46.300 --> 00:54:50.070
trained pianist. Does not play piano in his band.

00:54:50.190 --> 00:54:54.250
Right on. That's for him. That's his thing. I

00:54:54.250 --> 00:54:56.050
get it, man. I get it. It's half of it. And the

00:54:56.050 --> 00:54:59.170
other half of it was I was dead convinced that,

00:54:59.269 --> 00:55:02.170
and I've been largely proven right over the years,

00:55:02.269 --> 00:55:04.170
is dead convinced that you're not going to like

00:55:04.170 --> 00:55:07.889
this. This isn't for you. And that's why I think

00:55:07.889 --> 00:55:13.409
a private joke I have, an early slogan for Dactyloid

00:55:13.409 --> 00:55:17.599
was, it's for you. Because I knew. No, it's not.

00:55:17.719 --> 00:55:20.639
This is all bangs and clangs and whooshes and

00:55:20.639 --> 00:55:25.280
hauntological weirdness. Now, as I got older,

00:55:25.980 --> 00:55:29.039
as I got into my late teens and started getting

00:55:29.039 --> 00:55:31.760
into college and stuff like that, I'll tell you

00:55:31.760 --> 00:55:33.659
what. I'll tell you what was a game changer in

00:55:33.659 --> 00:55:36.760
my assessment of people's appreciation of this

00:55:36.760 --> 00:55:41.260
sort of thing. Psychedelics. Yeah. Once I was

00:55:41.260 --> 00:55:44.519
aware of that and once I experimented with some

00:55:44.519 --> 00:55:47.019
psychedelics, I'd go and listen to those tapes.

00:55:47.119 --> 00:55:52.119
Oh, these are hitting different now. Now, actually,

00:55:52.219 --> 00:55:56.920
maybe under the right conditions, just about

00:55:56.920 --> 00:56:00.760
anybody can enjoy this. It's like fish. Yeah,

00:56:00.760 --> 00:56:04.099
in a way. But again, fish at the end of the day.

00:56:04.480 --> 00:56:09.190
Music. Guitars and drums and singing. You kept

00:56:09.190 --> 00:56:12.809
this thing a secret. Did psychedelics affect

00:56:12.809 --> 00:56:17.010
the way you were making it, too? For a while.

00:56:17.130 --> 00:56:20.969
Yeah. For a while, I would get kind of lost in

00:56:20.969 --> 00:56:25.789
the processing end of things. I started recording

00:56:25.789 --> 00:56:30.829
less and processing more. Okay. And I've reverted

00:56:30.829 --> 00:56:33.929
back. Once you kind of learn what you're doing

00:56:33.929 --> 00:56:36.070
with the processing, they become just like tools

00:56:36.070 --> 00:56:38.789
in the toolkit. Yeah. and not the thing you're

00:56:38.789 --> 00:56:41.110
obsessed over anymore. Going back, there are

00:56:41.110 --> 00:56:43.710
definitely some recordings I've made where I

00:56:43.710 --> 00:56:47.210
feel like they're just too saturated with a certain

00:56:47.210 --> 00:56:50.670
effect, or I'm over -relying on a certain patch,

00:56:50.929 --> 00:56:56.110
and it feels a little gimmicky. So I'm not as

00:56:56.110 --> 00:56:58.269
in love with those as I was when I was making

00:56:58.269 --> 00:57:01.889
it, whereas now I'm kind of letting... I'm letting

00:57:01.889 --> 00:57:04.550
the silences kind of hang there and I'm doing

00:57:04.550 --> 00:57:09.090
more with longer form field recordings. And especially

00:57:09.090 --> 00:57:11.030
in the last couple of years, I've kind of moved

00:57:11.030 --> 00:57:14.230
into more of a field recording forward thing

00:57:14.230 --> 00:57:20.090
instead of a thing. It's more like, Hey, here's

00:57:20.090 --> 00:57:23.030
just some, so here's a, here's some running water.

00:57:23.090 --> 00:57:26.789
And like, I have a leaky faucet and I'm going

00:57:26.789 --> 00:57:30.099
to put a pot. under the leaky faucet, and you're

00:57:30.099 --> 00:57:31.880
just going to hear this plink, plink, plink.

00:57:31.980 --> 00:57:33.880
I think they were playing your stuff right before

00:57:33.880 --> 00:57:35.559
the Alabama Shakes the other night. Everybody

00:57:35.559 --> 00:57:38.739
had to pee right away, right before they went

00:57:38.739 --> 00:57:41.519
on. Here's that and some bird call, some bird

00:57:41.519 --> 00:57:44.860
song that I got at Tom Brown Park, and then like

00:57:44.860 --> 00:57:48.980
footfalls. And I'll put a little bit of echo

00:57:48.980 --> 00:57:52.000
on my footfalls, and I'll just pace back and

00:57:52.000 --> 00:57:54.039
forth on a plank of wood and record that, or

00:57:54.039 --> 00:57:56.500
have a piezo contact mic on the piece of wood,

00:57:56.579 --> 00:57:59.210
and I'll... Process that, but the birds and the

00:57:59.210 --> 00:58:01.489
water, that's clean. That's kind of the direction

00:58:01.489 --> 00:58:05.210
I'm moving into now. Yeah, yeah. But Dactyloid,

00:58:05.250 --> 00:58:08.289
check it out. It's available nowhere. It's on

00:58:08.289 --> 00:58:10.389
Bandcamp. It's on Bandcamp. It's linked in the

00:58:10.389 --> 00:58:12.849
description of this episode. I do want to shift

00:58:12.849 --> 00:58:15.329
gears, though, because there's a whole facet

00:58:15.329 --> 00:58:17.010
of your creativity that we haven't talked about

00:58:17.010 --> 00:58:20.929
yet. Oh, Lord. And we've hinted at things that

00:58:20.929 --> 00:58:24.750
I think probably led to it. In a lot of ways,

00:58:24.849 --> 00:58:28.809
like your early radio gigs, it sounds like you

00:58:28.809 --> 00:58:32.210
were very comfortable with public speaking at

00:58:32.210 --> 00:58:35.250
a pretty young age. Yeah, I'm not bad at public

00:58:35.250 --> 00:58:39.170
speaking. With enough prep time, I'm really good

00:58:39.170 --> 00:58:43.210
at public speaking. I love speaking on the radio

00:58:43.210 --> 00:58:47.210
because it's public speaking without any eyeballs

00:58:47.210 --> 00:58:50.869
on you. I'm just alone, and I'm speaking my words.

00:58:50.869 --> 00:58:52.110
I don't even think the camera's running anyway,

00:58:52.269 --> 00:58:56.769
so you're good. I've gotten over it. But yeah,

00:58:56.889 --> 00:59:00.349
I liked the idea of, oh, I'm just speaking my

00:59:00.349 --> 00:59:02.710
piece into the void, and whoever's listening

00:59:02.710 --> 00:59:05.030
is listening, but I don't have to acknowledge

00:59:05.030 --> 00:59:08.829
the audience. When you started doing that, how

00:59:08.829 --> 00:59:11.449
did you get comfortable literally just talking

00:59:11.449 --> 00:59:14.840
to no one? Asking that personally sometimes.

00:59:14.920 --> 00:59:17.619
As someone who's struggled making solo episodes

00:59:17.619 --> 00:59:21.619
or even streaming sometimes, how did you find

00:59:21.619 --> 00:59:25.400
your voice without it being a conversation? I

00:59:25.400 --> 00:59:32.159
hate to answer this way. That specific thing

00:59:32.159 --> 00:59:35.360
comes very naturally to me. Cool. Out of the

00:59:35.360 --> 00:59:38.380
gate. I don't even really talk to myself on my

00:59:38.380 --> 00:59:42.840
own. See, I am a huge mutterer. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:59:43.400 --> 00:59:45.719
Anyone I've ever lived with will tell you that's

00:59:45.719 --> 00:59:47.579
probably one of the things that annoys them.

00:59:47.599 --> 00:59:50.360
I think I talk in my sleep. I'm a huge mutterer.

00:59:50.400 --> 00:59:53.679
I'm a huge talk -to -myself or whatever you call

00:59:53.679 --> 00:59:56.639
that. Yeah, no, I'm big on that. So I'm going

00:59:56.639 --> 00:59:58.940
to go all the way back to the beginning again

00:59:58.940 --> 01:00:01.139
because a lot of the time I'll ask this question

01:00:01.139 --> 01:00:04.800
right after the music question when I'm talking

01:00:04.800 --> 01:00:08.269
to a comic, but we didn't get there. We went

01:00:08.269 --> 01:00:10.630
elsewhere. Yeah. And that's fine. But what's

01:00:10.630 --> 01:00:13.769
the first joke you remember loving as a kid and

01:00:13.769 --> 01:00:16.869
or, like, performing, like, repeating to people?

01:00:17.070 --> 01:00:22.750
Oh. The first joke. Like, actual joke. Or bit

01:00:22.750 --> 01:00:26.409
or, you know, but, yeah. Okay. Because, like,

01:00:26.409 --> 01:00:28.889
for me, it was, like, I did who's on first in

01:00:28.889 --> 01:00:30.630
fifth grade for my school. You know what I mean?

01:00:30.630 --> 01:00:35.750
Okay. Yeah. I had a habit of, and this goes with

01:00:35.750 --> 01:00:40.719
taping things. with the Walkman, is I would,

01:00:40.780 --> 01:00:46.599
to afford myself time to do those things, I would

01:00:46.599 --> 01:00:50.460
wake myself up in the middle of the night, or

01:00:50.460 --> 01:00:54.980
if I just woke up naturally, like 2 a .m., I'd

01:00:54.980 --> 01:00:57.400
go out into the living room and turn the television

01:00:57.400 --> 01:01:03.159
on and start fucking around. And again, I'm four,

01:01:03.460 --> 01:01:05.880
five, six years old, and I'm not allowed to do

01:01:05.880 --> 01:01:09.159
that. And that was also cool because it was sexy

01:01:09.159 --> 01:01:11.599
and dangerous because I was breaking a rule.

01:01:12.159 --> 01:01:16.320
And so I would go out and I would watch television.

01:01:16.639 --> 01:01:19.079
And sometimes if I came across something I thought

01:01:19.079 --> 01:01:20.599
was interesting, I'd have my Walkman ready to

01:01:20.599 --> 01:01:23.219
go and I'd fire it up. I watched a lot of PBS.

01:01:24.039 --> 01:01:27.719
And I learned pretty quickly that late nights

01:01:27.719 --> 01:01:31.840
on PBS, they ran in South Florida and I think

01:01:31.840 --> 01:01:33.719
everywhere in the country, they ran a lot of

01:01:33.719 --> 01:01:36.380
syndicated British comedy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:01:36.659 --> 01:01:40.280
I remember catching a lot of Who's Line and original

01:01:40.280 --> 01:01:45.000
Who's Line. Oh, sure. Benny Hill. Oh, yeah, Benny

01:01:45.000 --> 01:01:47.199
Hill. A lot of Benny Hill. A lot of Benny Hill.

01:01:47.260 --> 01:01:49.139
A lot of Are You Being Served. Are You Being

01:01:49.139 --> 01:01:50.920
Served was the next one. I couldn't remember

01:01:50.920 --> 01:01:53.559
the title. Aloe, Aloe, Aloe. Just a ton of shit.

01:01:54.139 --> 01:01:58.840
But late night, midnight, 1 a .m., that's when

01:01:58.840 --> 01:02:04.579
they play Flying Circus. Ah, yes. And I remember

01:02:04.579 --> 01:02:09.039
just being, like, not even getting it, just baffled.

01:02:09.500 --> 01:02:13.579
But I knew it was funny. And it would either

01:02:13.579 --> 01:02:15.400
be, and there was a bit where I was like, oh,

01:02:15.400 --> 01:02:18.539
I think I get this. It's funny because of the

01:02:18.539 --> 01:02:20.880
repetition. They keep repeating. And it was the

01:02:20.880 --> 01:02:24.739
slideshow bit from Monty Python on how to identify

01:02:24.739 --> 01:02:27.320
trees. And it would just keep going back to the

01:02:27.320 --> 01:02:30.900
larch. It's a very simple joke. Number three,

01:02:31.039 --> 01:02:35.800
the larch. The larch. And now, number three,

01:02:35.980 --> 01:02:39.219
the larch. That just busted my ass up as a little

01:02:39.219 --> 01:02:43.199
kid. And as a quick aside, I once repeated that.

01:02:43.679 --> 01:02:47.460
As per your question, I did repeat that to no

01:02:47.460 --> 01:02:51.300
one in particular. Just muttered it to myself.

01:02:52.119 --> 01:02:55.000
And again, I'm six years old. My family, we're

01:02:55.000 --> 01:02:58.280
all out to dinner. And I just start, I'm looking

01:02:58.280 --> 01:03:00.480
at the menu. And I don't even know why I'm looking

01:03:00.480 --> 01:03:01.900
at the menu. I'm going to get the hamburger.

01:03:02.099 --> 01:03:04.360
My brother is going to get the chicken tendies.

01:03:04.940 --> 01:03:07.039
But we're looking at the menu. And I'm just going

01:03:07.039 --> 01:03:11.639
to myself, the larch. And now the larch. And

01:03:11.639 --> 01:03:15.980
my dad looked at me, gave me a hard look and

01:03:15.980 --> 01:03:20.219
went, what did you say? And I said, the larch?

01:03:20.219 --> 01:03:22.800
It's a tree? And he says, yeah, I know. Where

01:03:22.800 --> 01:03:27.949
did you see that? He already knew I got that.

01:03:27.969 --> 01:03:30.190
Where did you get that from? And I said, oh,

01:03:30.429 --> 01:03:33.429
and then I was like, oh, shit, I'm in trouble

01:03:33.429 --> 01:03:35.550
because like that only airs at midnight. That

01:03:35.550 --> 01:03:36.809
only airs at midnight. They're going to know.

01:03:36.809 --> 01:03:38.030
They're going to know. Oh, God, they're going

01:03:38.030 --> 01:03:41.449
to know. And I just but I just said, oh, it's

01:03:41.449 --> 01:03:44.409
a thing on PBS. It's something like something

01:03:44.409 --> 01:03:47.150
with a snake. And my dad is like, that's yeah,

01:03:47.250 --> 01:03:49.750
it's called Monty Python. And my father ended

01:03:49.750 --> 01:03:53.300
up being a huge fan of Monty Python's. It wasn't

01:03:53.300 --> 01:03:55.880
immediate, but I think maybe six months later,

01:03:56.000 --> 01:04:00.719
he brought home a copy of. So he didn't know

01:04:00.719 --> 01:04:02.960
what the bit was. No, he knew the bit. Oh, okay.

01:04:03.079 --> 01:04:07.199
He recognized the bit, but he kept it inside.

01:04:07.960 --> 01:04:10.679
He didn't gush to me. He just was like, you shouldn't

01:04:10.679 --> 01:04:13.079
go. Oh, I see. You shouldn't stay up after bedtime.

01:04:13.219 --> 01:04:14.679
You shouldn't go out after bedtime. That's what

01:04:14.679 --> 01:04:16.059
he told me. He's like, you're not in trouble.

01:04:16.199 --> 01:04:18.360
Just don't do that. But secretly, he was impressed.

01:04:18.840 --> 01:04:21.039
Secretly, he was like, my kid likes the thing

01:04:21.039 --> 01:04:25.719
I like. So six months later, he comes home with

01:04:25.719 --> 01:04:31.599
a VHS copy of Holy Grail and said, hey, Evan,

01:04:31.800 --> 01:04:34.579
these are the guys you like. They made a whole

01:04:34.579 --> 01:04:38.530
damn movie about it. Yeah, so that became a bonding

01:04:38.530 --> 01:04:41.809
thing between me and my dad. Nice. It was a flying

01:04:41.809 --> 01:04:44.110
circus. So yeah, that was probably, as far as

01:04:44.110 --> 01:04:48.190
a bit, that's very young. Yeah. That one really

01:04:48.190 --> 01:04:51.090
stuck with me. It sounds like you were always

01:04:51.090 --> 01:04:53.389
performative, too, because you were a class clown.

01:04:53.590 --> 01:04:55.989
And then you wanted to be on the radio as a teenager.

01:04:56.650 --> 01:04:58.650
At what point were you like, okay, I'm going

01:04:58.650 --> 01:05:02.530
to try stand -up? I tried stand -up for the first

01:05:02.530 --> 01:05:07.110
time on the night of my 18th birthday. Hell yeah.

01:05:07.269 --> 01:05:10.230
That was over 20 years ago. We'll just call it

01:05:10.230 --> 01:05:12.949
that. We don't have to. Ah, no, screw it. I'm

01:05:12.949 --> 01:05:16.710
43, brother. Hell yeah. And yeah, that was part

01:05:16.710 --> 01:05:20.429
of my, that was a, I guess like a birthday provision.

01:05:20.949 --> 01:05:22.530
That was something I wanted for my birthday.

01:05:22.750 --> 01:05:24.650
Yeah. That was, I told my parents, that's something

01:05:24.650 --> 01:05:26.630
I wanted for my birthday was. So they kind of

01:05:26.630 --> 01:05:28.289
like set it up for you to be able to do it at

01:05:28.289 --> 01:05:30.989
your party or whatever. They called around. Oh

01:05:30.989 --> 01:05:33.929
no, I didn't have a party. I went to a comedy

01:05:33.929 --> 01:05:36.289
club. Hell yeah. Down in Fort Lauderdale? Yeah,

01:05:36.349 --> 01:05:39.030
I went to a place called Uncle Funny's in Davie,

01:05:39.030 --> 01:05:42.210
Florida. Is it still there? I don't believe it's

01:05:42.210 --> 01:05:44.710
still there. But it was inside of a strip mall.

01:05:46.269 --> 01:05:48.869
That is not what I thought you were going to

01:05:48.869 --> 01:05:52.679
say when you said strip, by the way. That's other.

01:05:52.800 --> 01:05:56.480
Fort Lauderdale. I was employed by a strip club

01:05:56.480 --> 01:05:58.340
for a while in Fort Lauderdale. I was the doorman

01:05:58.340 --> 01:06:01.340
at a place called Goldfingers in Fort Lauderdale.

01:06:01.380 --> 01:06:03.360
You look like the doorman at Goldfingers. I do.

01:06:03.420 --> 01:06:05.539
I do. That's why I got the job. Yeah. Because

01:06:05.539 --> 01:06:08.780
I look the part. I put a suit on. I put a suit

01:06:08.780 --> 01:06:11.500
on. I've seen you in a suit. Like a good looking

01:06:11.500 --> 01:06:15.579
suit. You've seen me in my bullshit. I don't

01:06:15.579 --> 01:06:17.619
even mean the one a couple weeks ago. I've seen.

01:06:18.119 --> 01:06:20.079
In the past, but I don't remember. Oh, those

01:06:20.079 --> 01:06:22.199
are all those, though. Those are all used car

01:06:22.199 --> 01:06:25.760
salesmen. Here's the thing, Revan. I don't know

01:06:25.760 --> 01:06:30.519
the difference. But I used to have a couple nice

01:06:30.519 --> 01:06:33.559
suits. And I'd wear those for work. I'd put a

01:06:33.559 --> 01:06:35.480
suit on, and I'd just mean mug and not talk.

01:06:35.940 --> 01:06:39.119
Yeah, I looked the part. Did you have a corsage?

01:06:39.460 --> 01:06:43.179
No, no, no. You've got to have that. But as soon

01:06:43.179 --> 01:06:45.550
as I started, and I... I learned also working

01:06:45.550 --> 01:06:49.630
as a doorman bouncer that I needed to have a,

01:06:49.650 --> 01:06:53.869
if I had a podium, I needed to have a book that

01:06:53.869 --> 01:06:56.909
I could pretend to read or pretend to read, uh,

01:06:57.030 --> 01:07:00.809
because then no one would try to talk to you.

01:07:00.929 --> 01:07:03.730
Oh yeah. Because I learned buddy outside smoking

01:07:03.730 --> 01:07:06.230
or whatever. No, being my button. I don't mind

01:07:06.230 --> 01:07:08.469
people being wanting to be my buddy, but the

01:07:08.469 --> 01:07:11.329
thing I was worried about was if you start talking

01:07:11.329 --> 01:07:14.500
to me, I'm going to start talking to you. And

01:07:14.500 --> 01:07:16.760
20 seconds into me talking to you, you're going

01:07:16.760 --> 01:07:18.800
to realize the illusion is fucking shattered

01:07:18.800 --> 01:07:20.860
about me being a tough guy. And that's kind of

01:07:20.860 --> 01:07:23.599
what I meant when I meant people leaving you

01:07:23.599 --> 01:07:25.519
alone. Because I know you're like a super personable

01:07:25.519 --> 01:07:30.840
guy. Yeah. The moment somebody has a conversation

01:07:30.840 --> 01:07:35.119
with you. I'm going to say something really silly

01:07:35.119 --> 01:07:40.599
and intentionally so that maybe I'll make this

01:07:40.599 --> 01:07:42.360
person laugh because that's always been in me.

01:07:43.789 --> 01:07:45.969
So I'm guessing you fell in love with it the

01:07:45.969 --> 01:07:47.869
first time you did it. Oh, yeah. No, I always

01:07:47.869 --> 01:07:50.130
wanted to do it. I was always fascinated with

01:07:50.130 --> 01:07:53.369
comedy. Jumping from the Monty Python thing,

01:07:53.769 --> 01:07:58.210
a huge – I can't emphasize enough how big this

01:07:58.210 --> 01:08:01.289
was. We were one of the – I want to say we were

01:08:01.289 --> 01:08:05.909
one of the test markets for – Comedy Central

01:08:05.909 --> 01:08:14.219
was the comedy channel. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Three,

01:08:14.260 --> 01:08:16.779
four years of that existing, when it was the

01:08:16.779 --> 01:08:20.140
Comedy Channel, they didn't have any original

01:08:20.140 --> 01:08:24.199
programming whatsoever. The closest thing they

01:08:24.199 --> 01:08:26.899
had to original programming was they would build

01:08:26.899 --> 01:08:31.659
these frame shows around basically just compilations

01:08:31.659 --> 01:08:34.939
of stand -up. So you'd have a host that would

01:08:34.939 --> 01:08:38.479
say, relationships are weird, isn't it? Here's

01:08:38.479 --> 01:08:42.220
five comics with two minutes each. Here's a bit.

01:08:42.569 --> 01:08:45.409
a piece from five different stand -ups on divorce,

01:08:45.750 --> 01:08:48.529
right? And then that would be a show. And then

01:08:48.529 --> 01:08:51.449
later they would start having location -specific

01:08:51.449 --> 01:08:55.050
shows like London Underground and Stand Up Stand

01:08:55.050 --> 01:08:58.569
Up was location -specific. And then they also

01:08:58.569 --> 01:09:04.850
started re -airing the old 80s HBO comedy specials.

01:09:05.010 --> 01:09:11.619
So watching those, I just had a complete... Like

01:09:11.619 --> 01:09:14.180
the early Eddie Murphy specials and shit like

01:09:14.180 --> 01:09:17.500
that. Oh, yeah. Just complete admiration and

01:09:17.500 --> 01:09:21.260
respect for stand -up. But I will tell you something.

01:09:21.880 --> 01:09:26.779
Not my first love. No. No. My first and truest

01:09:26.779 --> 01:09:29.840
love. Let's go back to Monty Python. Sketch.

01:09:30.119 --> 01:09:31.880
Sketch comedy, yeah. Sketch comedy. I would have

01:09:31.880 --> 01:09:34.420
guessed that. Sketch comedy is still my A number

01:09:34.420 --> 01:09:38.020
one favorite. And it's the thing I enjoy doing

01:09:38.020 --> 01:09:41.520
the most. And I would say, as someone who has

01:09:41.520 --> 01:09:44.520
watched and enjoyed your comedy a lot over the

01:09:44.520 --> 01:09:47.300
years... Oh, thank you very much. And I don't

01:09:47.300 --> 01:09:49.899
say that for any other reason than to say that

01:09:49.899 --> 01:09:52.779
I feel like I have a pretty good understanding

01:09:52.779 --> 01:09:56.939
of what you do when you perform. And it feels

01:09:56.939 --> 01:10:00.520
almost like a one -man sketch. Yeah. I try to

01:10:00.520 --> 01:10:04.140
embody some version of a character. I was going

01:10:04.140 --> 01:10:07.470
to ask you that. I feel like... I've never seen

01:10:07.470 --> 01:10:11.489
the version of you on stage, off stage. I've

01:10:11.489 --> 01:10:15.250
seen versions of you off stage, on stage, but

01:10:15.250 --> 01:10:19.869
the you that I think that doesn't use a microphone,

01:10:19.949 --> 01:10:25.810
that is bolsterous and kind of takes over a room

01:10:25.810 --> 01:10:31.529
in a really powerful way. You're so much more

01:10:31.529 --> 01:10:34.560
subdued when you just have a conversation. You

01:10:34.560 --> 01:10:39.380
get animated. You're a big personality person,

01:10:39.680 --> 01:10:43.640
but you're mellow and you're chill and you're

01:10:43.640 --> 01:10:47.119
not that when you perform. No. You're very kind

01:10:47.119 --> 01:10:50.420
of shouty. I'm shouty and manic and I'm a bit

01:10:50.420 --> 01:10:53.340
unhinged when I perform. And that is all intentional

01:10:53.340 --> 01:10:57.100
character work. But how much of that is really

01:10:57.100 --> 01:11:01.220
just a part of you? It's almost... especially

01:11:01.220 --> 01:11:03.920
it's like and i don't know when and let me expand

01:11:03.920 --> 01:11:05.880
the question a little bit more because i don't

01:11:05.880 --> 01:11:09.439
know when you found like that voice in your stand

01:11:09.439 --> 01:11:11.300
-up it's been there the whole time i've seen

01:11:11.300 --> 01:11:14.979
you perform but as someone who started at 18

01:11:14.979 --> 01:11:19.319
it seems like to me you're you really probably

01:11:19.319 --> 01:11:23.619
like found a way to to express this part of you

01:11:23.619 --> 01:11:27.439
that was already there no i was always quick

01:11:27.439 --> 01:11:30.140
with jokes in my friend groups and things like

01:11:30.140 --> 01:11:33.039
that. But I'd tell them very naturally. Or I

01:11:33.039 --> 01:11:35.760
would tell them very deadpan, and then no one

01:11:35.760 --> 01:11:38.979
would get it. That's kind of my favorite. And

01:11:38.979 --> 01:11:42.859
that's in conversation. Yeah, nine times out

01:11:42.859 --> 01:11:45.060
of ten, I'm going to default to a very straight

01:11:45.060 --> 01:11:50.140
delivery. With stand -up, and going back to sketch

01:11:50.140 --> 01:11:54.159
real quick, sketch is my love, but I also, I'm

01:11:54.159 --> 01:11:55.899
not a sketch, I don't see myself as a sketch

01:11:55.899 --> 01:12:00.869
performer. I'm a writer. And that sounds, whether

01:12:00.869 --> 01:12:04.529
it's your lyrics or your comedy, that seems like

01:12:04.529 --> 01:12:06.289
the through. That's a bit of a through line there,

01:12:06.329 --> 01:12:10.130
yeah. But I get way more satisfaction because

01:12:10.130 --> 01:12:12.210
I don't think I'm a very talented sketch performer.

01:12:12.510 --> 01:12:14.850
I don't think I'm a very talented actor, I should

01:12:14.850 --> 01:12:18.609
say. And I get way more satisfaction and enjoyment

01:12:18.609 --> 01:12:22.670
sitting in an audience and having someone who's

01:12:22.670 --> 01:12:26.899
good at performing. do my material and get a

01:12:26.899 --> 01:12:29.399
big reaction from the audience than I would if

01:12:29.399 --> 01:12:32.000
I was the one in that spot. So have you done

01:12:32.000 --> 01:12:34.100
a lot of writing for other comics then? I've

01:12:34.100 --> 01:12:36.119
done a lot of writing for other comics. Interesting.

01:12:36.239 --> 01:12:40.800
That's something I was not aware of. And especially

01:12:40.800 --> 01:12:42.920
for sketch. I would write entire sketches and

01:12:42.920 --> 01:12:45.720
scenes. No, I'm not casting myself in any of

01:12:45.720 --> 01:12:50.380
this. I work in a group and I'm a writer. I was

01:12:50.380 --> 01:12:54.460
in several sketch groups in the past. one uh

01:12:54.460 --> 01:12:57.859
murder fist probably the most notable one but

01:12:57.859 --> 01:13:01.239
before this is for anybody who knows out there

01:13:01.239 --> 01:13:04.359
in podcast land this is before the move to new

01:13:04.359 --> 01:13:06.859
york city where they actually got their name

01:13:06.859 --> 01:13:09.159
out there and got traction this is the tallahassee

01:13:09.159 --> 01:13:12.760
days of murder fist and i was a writer four out

01:13:12.760 --> 01:13:15.920
of five sketches uh like i would only ever write

01:13:15.920 --> 01:13:19.649
myself into a sketch when i was really precious

01:13:19.649 --> 01:13:21.590
about a character. And I was like, it's got to

01:13:21.590 --> 01:13:24.789
be done a very specific way. And I'm not a director.

01:13:24.970 --> 01:13:27.430
I think I'm just going to have to do it, you

01:13:27.430 --> 01:13:31.770
guys. Or it was an ensemble sketch that required

01:13:31.770 --> 01:13:35.189
all of us to, because it's a crowd or a group

01:13:35.189 --> 01:13:37.489
or something. So those are the only times I'd

01:13:37.489 --> 01:13:40.829
ever be on stage. So with standup, and that's

01:13:40.829 --> 01:13:42.710
why I always admired standup because I just don't

01:13:42.710 --> 01:13:47.500
like being an object of attention. With stand

01:13:47.500 --> 01:13:49.739
-up, I thought, maybe it's like aversion therapy.

01:13:50.060 --> 01:13:53.119
I thought, I'm going to make myself the object

01:13:53.119 --> 01:13:55.159
of attention. There's no way you can't when you're

01:13:55.159 --> 01:13:57.239
doing stand -up. You're there alone on a stage

01:13:57.239 --> 01:13:59.359
with a microphone. You are the object of attention.

01:13:59.659 --> 01:14:02.340
I'm already uncomfortable. So how do we just

01:14:02.340 --> 01:14:06.979
fucking maximize that without being obnoxious?

01:14:07.159 --> 01:14:10.689
And I just thought, I'll just go and... recall

01:14:10.689 --> 01:14:15.609
the mannerisms of my favorite comics and uh and

01:14:15.609 --> 01:14:18.090
always a lot of my favorite comics invariably

01:14:18.090 --> 01:14:21.670
do character work yeah yeah those are not their

01:14:21.670 --> 01:14:25.390
true personas on stage gilbert godfrey didn't

01:14:25.390 --> 01:14:28.729
act like that yeah in real normal life he actually

01:14:28.729 --> 01:14:31.770
had a beautiful voice gilbert godfrey like a

01:14:31.770 --> 01:14:36.050
melodious voice uh emo phillips yeah i love him

01:14:36.050 --> 01:14:41.500
twice is one of my I would say if I had the inspiring

01:14:41.500 --> 01:14:46.140
comic, it's a combination of Emo Phillips and

01:14:46.140 --> 01:14:48.779
Stephen Wright. It's those two. Those are my,

01:14:48.880 --> 01:14:52.420
that is my. I can see that. That is my quasar.

01:14:52.539 --> 01:14:56.699
It's Stephen Wright and Emo Phillips. And I didn't

01:14:56.699 --> 01:15:01.060
want to bite their style. What if I'm just manic?

01:15:01.560 --> 01:15:03.319
What if I'm just manic? Yeah, because you're

01:15:03.319 --> 01:15:06.060
almost like the opposite. persona of Stephen

01:15:06.060 --> 01:15:09.979
Wright. Stephen Wright's incredibly dead. You're

01:15:09.979 --> 01:15:11.659
like the other end of the spectrum. And then

01:15:11.659 --> 01:15:14.079
many years later, this is why I almost hesitated

01:15:14.079 --> 01:15:19.739
to mention Stephen Wright, but that's not a fucking

01:15:19.739 --> 01:15:24.060
character. He actually is that guy. And as someone

01:15:24.060 --> 01:15:27.220
who's had a pretty long conversation with Emo

01:15:27.220 --> 01:15:31.180
Phillips, he's pretty much that guy. Yeah, it's

01:15:31.180 --> 01:15:35.100
just the voice is a put -on. Only it's an exaggeration.

01:15:35.100 --> 01:15:36.479
Yeah, it's an exaggeration. That's what I would

01:15:36.479 --> 01:15:38.840
say. He's goosing it. So I ran into him outside

01:15:38.840 --> 01:15:42.100
of a Weird Al concert in 2022, and he talked

01:15:42.100 --> 01:15:45.279
to me and my daughter for 15 minutes. One of

01:15:45.279 --> 01:15:48.500
the nicest guys you'll ever... Sometimes they

01:15:48.500 --> 01:15:50.119
say, don't meet your heroes. Oh, absolutely.

01:15:50.199 --> 01:15:52.880
He's the fucking sweetest, man. Yeah, no doubt

01:15:52.880 --> 01:15:57.460
in my mind. Every public appearance I've seen

01:15:57.460 --> 01:15:59.590
him involved in, he just seems like a... a very

01:15:59.590 --> 01:16:02.229
kind man but he also what took me aback was he

01:16:02.229 --> 01:16:06.130
was it was not much of a character he was very

01:16:06.130 --> 01:16:08.869
and maybe he was just doing the character because

01:16:08.869 --> 01:16:11.789
he was but it was just the two of us and it seemed

01:16:11.789 --> 01:16:13.909
pretty genuine he seemed like he was having a

01:16:13.909 --> 01:16:16.229
very genuine conversation i don't know if this

01:16:16.229 --> 01:16:18.489
is like a parasocial delusion or anything like

01:16:18.489 --> 01:16:20.369
that on my part but i kind of feel like if you're

01:16:20.369 --> 01:16:23.329
that good good of friends with weird al yankovic

01:16:23.329 --> 01:16:27.500
you can't suck you gotta be a nice person you

01:16:27.500 --> 01:16:31.619
gotta be a exceedingly nice person i think that's

01:16:31.619 --> 01:16:34.199
very true because like i've had jim west on the

01:16:34.199 --> 01:16:38.340
show uh his guitar player and seriously just

01:16:38.340 --> 01:16:40.500
the nicest fucking guy in the world and and i've

01:16:40.500 --> 01:16:44.460
been talking to steve j about coming on and also

01:16:44.460 --> 01:16:47.720
just the nicest fucking they're all just the

01:16:47.720 --> 01:16:52.130
nicest dudes so yeah no i think that tracks Thank

01:16:52.130 --> 01:16:54.229
God for people like Weird Al. Yeah, no, he's

01:16:54.229 --> 01:16:58.689
a hero. He's a hero. Yeah, but my heroes were

01:16:58.689 --> 01:17:01.899
Emo and Steven, right? Yeah. And emo was always,

01:17:01.899 --> 01:17:04.439
like, that scene in UHF where he cuts off his

01:17:04.439 --> 01:17:06.619
thumb. Like, that was, like, my favorite. Call

01:17:06.619 --> 01:17:09.340
me Mr. Butterfingers. Yeah. I think it's on the

01:17:09.340 --> 01:17:12.000
floor there. It's, like, my favorite scene in

01:17:12.000 --> 01:17:14.180
that movie. Yeah. And that's the second time

01:17:14.180 --> 01:17:17.840
we've referenced UHF today, so that's good. It's

01:17:17.840 --> 01:17:20.119
not a successful episode, unless we have at least

01:17:20.119 --> 01:17:24.199
two. It was my mom that showed me UHF. Yeah?

01:17:24.319 --> 01:17:26.800
Yeah, my mom showed me that movie. I just remember

01:17:26.800 --> 01:17:28.960
seeing it. I saw it at the Blockbuster or whatever.

01:17:29.720 --> 01:17:33.399
and rented it. And they only had one copy. I

01:17:33.399 --> 01:17:35.020
found out it was out of print and you couldn't

01:17:35.020 --> 01:17:39.380
buy it. So I made my own copy. I got two DVs,

01:17:39.380 --> 01:17:42.699
VCRs together and got found the really old one

01:17:42.699 --> 01:17:45.859
that didn't have the macro vision bullshit. Oh

01:17:45.859 --> 01:17:48.779
yeah. The copy protection. Sure. And yeah, I'm

01:17:48.779 --> 01:17:51.420
straight up made a copy of that shit. and wore

01:17:51.420 --> 01:17:54.479
it out. And I was working at Final Fever when

01:17:54.479 --> 01:17:58.260
the 20th anniversary came out on DVD. And I lost

01:17:58.260 --> 01:18:02.579
my shit. Because I was like, I saw it in the

01:18:02.579 --> 01:18:06.260
computer and the upcoming releases. So yeah,

01:18:06.300 --> 01:18:10.600
my mom knew I liked Weird Al. And my mom found

01:18:10.600 --> 01:18:12.960
a copy of the movie. And we used to rent movies

01:18:12.960 --> 01:18:17.250
at this place. I'm not actually entirely sure

01:18:17.250 --> 01:18:19.329
if it was like a local independent or if it was

01:18:19.329 --> 01:18:21.630
a small chain or if it was just a chain that

01:18:21.630 --> 01:18:25.550
has long since gone extinct. But it was a company,

01:18:25.630 --> 01:18:29.170
it was a store called Farmore. And it was kind

01:18:29.170 --> 01:18:35.989
of a target situation. It was like various goods

01:18:35.989 --> 01:18:39.470
and a pharmacy. Gotcha. But one of the things

01:18:39.470 --> 01:18:43.409
was they had 50 -cent VHS rentals. Winn -Dixie

01:18:43.409 --> 01:18:45.310
did something similar back in the day. Winn -Dixie

01:18:45.310 --> 01:18:48.210
and Albertsons also did rentals. So yeah, it's

01:18:48.210 --> 01:18:50.489
kind of like that, but they didn't sell food,

01:18:50.550 --> 01:18:52.729
I think, beyond candy and shit at a Farmore.

01:18:52.930 --> 01:18:55.890
But it was walking distance from our house. So

01:18:55.890 --> 01:18:57.670
we'd go to the Farmore and rent movies occasionally.

01:18:58.449 --> 01:19:00.130
And my mom knew I liked Rhode Island and saw

01:19:00.130 --> 01:19:02.229
that, oh, he made a movie. So she brings it home.

01:19:02.250 --> 01:19:05.470
We watch it together. And she has a freak -out

01:19:05.470 --> 01:19:09.210
moment. And my parents were always, they didn't

01:19:09.210 --> 01:19:11.729
really self -censor. They tried to keep things

01:19:11.729 --> 01:19:15.369
pretty PG, PG -13 for my brother and I as little

01:19:15.369 --> 01:19:17.449
kids. But this is, my mom was just, what the

01:19:17.449 --> 01:19:20.270
fuck? What the fuck? And I don't know what she's

01:19:20.270 --> 01:19:22.350
reacting to. We're just in the middle of watching

01:19:22.350 --> 01:19:25.770
this UHF movie. I'm going to not remember the

01:19:25.770 --> 01:19:30.789
actor's name. But the man who played the technician,

01:19:30.989 --> 01:19:34.630
the scientist technician, that actor. was a very

01:19:34.630 --> 01:19:39.869
prominent soap opera actor on General Hospital.

01:19:39.989 --> 01:19:44.010
And my mom was a big General Hospital fan. And

01:19:44.010 --> 01:19:48.409
he was like the romantic dude on General Hospital.

01:19:48.909 --> 01:19:53.689
And my mom could not accept that. That he was

01:19:53.689 --> 01:19:57.479
also... in basically like a fright wig in this

01:19:57.479 --> 01:20:00.640
like fuck around comedy. She could not accept

01:20:00.640 --> 01:20:03.159
it. She bailed. She had to go. She could like,

01:20:03.260 --> 01:20:05.220
oh, my Luke. That's what it was. Luke was the

01:20:05.220 --> 01:20:08.279
character's name on General Hospital. That's

01:20:08.279 --> 01:20:12.619
amazing. That's amazing. I thought you were going

01:20:12.619 --> 01:20:15.079
to tell me the Challenger exploded or something.

01:20:15.180 --> 01:20:17.199
I was like, wait, no, this movie came out in

01:20:17.199 --> 01:20:21.739
89. That was 86. No, she was like, I can't watch

01:20:21.739 --> 01:20:24.260
this. I cannot watch this. I can't have my image

01:20:24.260 --> 01:20:29.000
of this man tainted this way. That's amazing.

01:20:29.199 --> 01:20:32.760
Yeah. My daughter had a, and I don't talk about

01:20:32.760 --> 01:20:34.760
her a lot on here, but I'll tell this story.

01:20:34.960 --> 01:20:37.520
She had a birthday party where we showed it at

01:20:37.520 --> 01:20:39.000
Cap City Video Lounge. Outstanding. We rented

01:20:39.000 --> 01:20:42.699
it out and showed it. And she was probably in

01:20:42.699 --> 01:20:45.079
like sixth grade. All of her classmates came.

01:20:45.939 --> 01:20:49.039
Most of them had no idea who Weird Al was or

01:20:49.039 --> 01:20:51.260
what any of the movies he was parodying was.

01:20:51.680 --> 01:20:54.079
Oh, yeah. That makes sense. The second half I

01:20:54.079 --> 01:20:56.930
totally get. And then they all loved it. They

01:20:56.930 --> 01:20:59.829
all thought it was funny as hell. We ate Twinkie

01:20:59.829 --> 01:21:02.970
Wiener sandwiches. Yeah, gross. It was disgusting.

01:21:03.550 --> 01:21:06.149
Don't do it. You had the squeezy cheese? We had

01:21:06.149 --> 01:21:08.390
the squeezy cheese and half and half. Oh, my

01:21:08.390 --> 01:21:13.170
God. I know. We did it right. We even had vegan

01:21:13.170 --> 01:21:14.869
ones, although you can't make them vegan. We

01:21:14.869 --> 01:21:17.550
had vegetarian ones. He doesn't eat them anymore

01:21:17.550 --> 01:21:21.170
because Twinkies have gelatin in them. Even though

01:21:21.170 --> 01:21:24.090
you can make them with a vegan dog. Cheese whiz,

01:21:24.130 --> 01:21:26.850
the half and half. It's out the window for him.

01:21:26.930 --> 01:21:29.970
He really apparently did used to eat them. Yeah,

01:21:30.109 --> 01:21:31.630
I think I remember hearing him talk about that.

01:21:31.710 --> 01:21:35.630
I think that is gross to me, but not for the

01:21:35.630 --> 01:21:38.609
reasons you might be thinking. I just hate hot

01:21:38.609 --> 01:21:44.090
dogs. Even as a little kid, I can't trust a hot

01:21:44.090 --> 01:21:46.229
dog. Well, it's been great having you on the

01:21:46.229 --> 01:21:48.039
show, Evan. Yeah, it's all right. This happens.

01:21:48.100 --> 01:21:51.020
This is the third or fourth podcast. I need to

01:21:51.020 --> 01:21:54.100
keep my fucking mouth shut about hot dogs. No

01:21:54.100 --> 01:21:56.359
one's ready for the hot dog, the hot tank. The

01:21:56.359 --> 01:22:00.800
only meme I've ever made, ever, is Sam Jackson

01:22:00.800 --> 01:22:04.460
in Pulp Fiction. And it says, hot dogs, motherfucker.

01:22:04.760 --> 01:22:07.539
Do you like them? Nah. I'll tell you what, though.

01:22:07.600 --> 01:22:09.279
And then my friend Taylor Hollingsworth, who's

01:22:09.279 --> 01:22:11.420
been on the show, he has a song called Hot Dogs.

01:22:11.659 --> 01:22:13.220
Tell you what, though. It's all about all the

01:22:13.220 --> 01:22:15.000
hot dogs in different places of the country.

01:22:15.100 --> 01:22:17.039
Oh, sure. But I'll tell you something. Give me

01:22:17.039 --> 01:22:21.060
a brat. Okay. I'll take a brat. All right. A

01:22:21.060 --> 01:22:24.960
sausage is fine. Because I can look at a sausage,

01:22:25.039 --> 01:22:27.319
I can break a sausage open, and I can stir into

01:22:27.319 --> 01:22:30.100
the middle of a sausage and go, okay, that's

01:22:30.100 --> 01:22:33.199
meat. Oh, that's like a piece of fennel. That's

01:22:33.199 --> 01:22:35.939
a peppercorn. That's a little ball of fat. I

01:22:35.939 --> 01:22:38.899
can make sense of a sausage. A hot dog is just

01:22:38.899 --> 01:22:41.560
the smooth pink fruit of industry. It really

01:22:41.560 --> 01:22:43.939
is like a chicken nugget without the breading.

01:22:43.979 --> 01:22:46.039
Yes. And for the same reason, I've never been

01:22:46.039 --> 01:22:48.850
a... a chicken nugget guy for the same reason.

01:22:48.930 --> 01:22:53.090
It's just, it's just, there's a, you make a compelling

01:22:53.090 --> 01:22:57.210
argument as a visceral turnoff reaction to that.

01:22:57.270 --> 01:23:00.310
I only eat high quality hot dogs unless I'm at

01:23:00.310 --> 01:23:03.310
a ballpark. Oh, hell yeah. But like Angus beef

01:23:03.310 --> 01:23:06.329
or Hebrew national or Nathan's. So you're a beef

01:23:06.329 --> 01:23:09.489
dog, a beef dog. A hundred percent. Yeah. Like

01:23:09.489 --> 01:23:13.010
I don't do the chicken pork mix. Yeah. To me,

01:23:13.029 --> 01:23:16.489
the more parts. The more dangerous we're getting.

01:23:16.630 --> 01:23:19.510
I understand. Actually, this is the first time

01:23:19.510 --> 01:23:23.850
I've understood. But only because you're willing

01:23:23.850 --> 01:23:25.850
to eat a bratwurst instead. Oh, yeah. Hell, yeah.

01:23:25.850 --> 01:23:27.029
You know what I mean? Give me a brat and some

01:23:27.029 --> 01:23:28.970
spicy mustard. I'm a happy camper. To me, those

01:23:28.970 --> 01:23:32.750
are just hot dogs made for people our size. You

01:23:32.750 --> 01:23:35.770
know what I mean? So one thing that you've talked

01:23:35.770 --> 01:23:39.829
about with me, you've never really wanted to

01:23:39.829 --> 01:23:42.800
professionalize your comedy. You've never wanted

01:23:42.800 --> 01:23:45.739
to, it's always been something you wanted to

01:23:45.739 --> 01:23:49.079
keep a love, a passion, not something that you

01:23:49.079 --> 01:23:52.239
were wanting. And the ironic thing is, Evan,

01:23:52.340 --> 01:23:54.560
I think you're one of the few comics I know that

01:23:54.560 --> 01:23:57.600
I think could professionalize their comedy and

01:23:57.600 --> 01:24:01.979
like actually make it a living. And it came down

01:24:01.979 --> 01:24:04.420
to a conversation you had with your father. Yeah,

01:24:04.500 --> 01:24:06.520
that was one of them. Yeah, that was one of the

01:24:06.520 --> 01:24:09.039
big decisions or one of the big deciding factors.

01:24:09.100 --> 01:24:10.560
And I was wondering if you'd be willing to just

01:24:10.560 --> 01:24:14.340
talk about that conversation. Yeah, sure. We're

01:24:14.340 --> 01:24:17.399
talking about future plans. This is as I'm gearing

01:24:17.399 --> 01:24:19.520
up to go to college. And what do you want to

01:24:19.520 --> 01:24:22.619
do when you're in college? And what kind of interests

01:24:22.619 --> 01:24:24.739
do you want to pursue? I'm having that conversation

01:24:24.739 --> 01:24:30.199
with my father. And I said something about I'm

01:24:30.199 --> 01:24:33.539
naive. I'm 17. I'm naive. I don't know. shit

01:24:33.539 --> 01:24:37.220
about the college ecosystem so i said well don't

01:24:37.220 --> 01:24:39.600
people just people go to college to essentially

01:24:39.600 --> 01:24:43.060
get themselves prepared for a career right dad

01:24:43.060 --> 01:24:45.560
and my dad said yeah so this was lesson number

01:24:45.560 --> 01:24:49.119
one was oh no i don't think that's what why you

01:24:49.119 --> 01:24:50.859
should go to college at all i think you should

01:24:50.859 --> 01:24:54.119
go to college to develop and deepen your interests

01:24:54.119 --> 01:24:58.479
so you should the things that the thing the things

01:24:58.479 --> 01:25:00.680
that make you good the things that may look good

01:25:00.680 --> 01:25:03.720
on a resume Not necessarily good for the soul.

01:25:04.180 --> 01:25:07.840
Not necessarily enriching to the person. So my

01:25:07.840 --> 01:25:11.119
father, first of all, said, play the fucking

01:25:11.119 --> 01:25:14.779
field in college. Fling on all sorts of things,

01:25:14.859 --> 01:25:17.600
even if you're just passingly interested in it.

01:25:17.640 --> 01:25:19.420
Fling on it because you might find a passion

01:25:19.420 --> 01:25:21.779
for it. But here's the other thing. Here's the

01:25:21.779 --> 01:25:24.560
other half of it is that don't try to make a

01:25:24.560 --> 01:25:27.619
career out of your passions. If you really enjoy

01:25:27.619 --> 01:25:30.880
doing something, keep it that way. Keep it pure.

01:25:31.340 --> 01:25:34.600
in a way. And then specifically the phrase my

01:25:34.600 --> 01:25:38.380
dad said is, you will hear people say, there's

01:25:38.380 --> 01:25:42.439
a phrase, there's like a platitude that if you

01:25:42.439 --> 01:25:45.399
do what you love, you'll never work a day in

01:25:45.399 --> 01:25:49.340
your life. And my dad said, right or wrong, my

01:25:49.340 --> 01:25:53.079
dad said 100 % bullshit. If you do what you love

01:25:53.079 --> 01:25:57.960
as your career, you have to hang. all of your

01:25:57.960 --> 01:26:01.899
worldly obligations on this thing you love. So

01:26:01.899 --> 01:26:06.000
taking comedy, for instance, I never, he articulated

01:26:06.000 --> 01:26:08.659
it to me and it just, but it made total sense

01:26:08.659 --> 01:26:12.520
in the moment and it still does. Comedy, I like

01:26:12.520 --> 01:26:16.279
being funny. I like being regarded as funny,

01:26:16.359 --> 01:26:21.500
a funny person. The notion of, oh man, I gotta

01:26:21.500 --> 01:26:26.369
be really funny four times this week. Or I can't

01:26:26.369 --> 01:26:32.569
pay rent. Yeah. Is terrifying and anathema to

01:26:32.569 --> 01:26:35.850
the enjoyment I get out of the hobby. So my dad

01:26:35.850 --> 01:26:39.689
said, find the thing you're good at. Make that

01:26:39.689 --> 01:26:43.250
your job. The thing you love, make that your

01:26:43.250 --> 01:26:47.989
hobby. And you'll have more of a balance and

01:26:47.989 --> 01:26:49.590
more harmony. Yeah, I think that makes total

01:26:49.590 --> 01:26:54.310
sense to me. The only problem for me with that.

01:26:54.800 --> 01:26:57.220
mentality is that the only thing I've ever been

01:26:57.220 --> 01:26:59.800
good at is the only thing that I've ever really

01:26:59.800 --> 01:27:03.439
loved too. There you go. And that I think is

01:27:03.439 --> 01:27:07.460
like the prop, like once I found that I loved

01:27:07.460 --> 01:27:10.760
it, I also found that I was good at it and was

01:27:10.760 --> 01:27:13.800
like, okay, this is like the only thing like,

01:27:13.859 --> 01:27:17.659
and I think I have a long way to go. Like I,

01:27:17.699 --> 01:27:21.020
but I also know how new I am to a lot of it too.

01:27:21.359 --> 01:27:25.060
And the fact that I'm like where I am after the

01:27:25.060 --> 01:27:28.380
amount of time, like the amount of time and really

01:27:28.380 --> 01:27:30.420
the amount of opportunities to even perform that

01:27:30.420 --> 01:27:32.819
I've been at. I was like, okay, I have to at

01:27:32.819 --> 01:27:34.680
least give this a shot. You know what I mean?

01:27:35.100 --> 01:27:38.600
But I have found ways to, for years and years,

01:27:38.699 --> 01:27:44.159
I just had a very staunch stance on this, which

01:27:44.159 --> 01:27:48.899
is like, no. For years, I refused payment outright.

01:27:49.140 --> 01:27:51.819
I remember you mentioning that. And I still do

01:27:51.819 --> 01:27:56.479
sometimes. I still will. You know what's weird

01:27:56.479 --> 01:27:59.840
about it is if I had a blast. You don't want

01:27:59.840 --> 01:28:01.960
to get paid. Then I don't want to get paid. Interesting.

01:28:02.000 --> 01:28:04.380
If I did a show and it was a fuck around show

01:28:04.380 --> 01:28:07.260
and maybe here's 10 or 20 bucks, I might take

01:28:07.260 --> 01:28:12.380
the 10 or 20 bucks. But if I kill a room. And

01:28:12.380 --> 01:28:15.539
I'm enjoying myself and I'm all smiles. And I

01:28:15.539 --> 01:28:20.520
had maybe a drink or two. I have a very poor

01:28:20.520 --> 01:28:23.159
relationship with money in general. I have a

01:28:23.159 --> 01:28:26.119
very poor opinion of money in general. Why would

01:28:26.119 --> 01:28:30.159
I sully this with having someone stick a 20 in

01:28:30.159 --> 01:28:32.220
my hand? No, I relate to that a lot. The only

01:28:32.220 --> 01:28:35.319
reason I think that I've been able to... And

01:28:35.319 --> 01:28:37.979
it's partially because I've surrounded myself

01:28:37.979 --> 01:28:40.600
with all these musicians over the years that

01:28:40.600 --> 01:28:43.930
have... struggled it's like the only way if i'm

01:28:43.930 --> 01:28:46.109
ever going to make this sustainable is to get

01:28:46.109 --> 01:28:49.850
some kind of true yeah and that's like that's

01:28:49.850 --> 01:28:51.369
the only thing like i don't i'm not motivated

01:28:51.369 --> 01:28:53.729
by like fame or fortune or anything like that

01:28:53.729 --> 01:28:56.250
but like being able to do this and only this

01:28:56.250 --> 01:28:59.630
like that motivates me but over the years i've

01:28:59.630 --> 01:29:04.050
learned ways to soften that stance yeah i've

01:29:04.050 --> 01:29:07.409
noticed that too and One of those is something

01:29:07.409 --> 01:29:09.430
we touched on earlier. I don't mean the getting

01:29:09.430 --> 01:29:12.529
paid. I just mean like you seem to take it a

01:29:12.529 --> 01:29:15.510
little more seriously sometimes. Yeah, I'm doing

01:29:15.510 --> 01:29:17.609
it more seriously, especially in the last six

01:29:17.609 --> 01:29:20.590
months or so because I got shit canned. So this

01:29:20.590 --> 01:29:23.329
is now currently really the only thing I've got

01:29:23.329 --> 01:29:26.930
going on in my life. This is actually, I'm glad

01:29:26.930 --> 01:29:28.590
you brought that up because I wasn't going to

01:29:28.590 --> 01:29:30.350
bring it up, but it does lead me to the point

01:29:30.350 --> 01:29:32.869
where you're one of the only people I've ever

01:29:32.869 --> 01:29:36.510
met where your artistic talent. might be your

01:29:36.510 --> 01:29:39.210
backup plan that ends up working out. Maybe.

01:29:39.770 --> 01:29:42.289
But one of the things that we did touch on real

01:29:42.289 --> 01:29:46.550
quick is ghostwriting. That's how I feel like

01:29:46.550 --> 01:29:49.210
I will allow myself to be paid for that because

01:29:49.210 --> 01:29:51.989
I'm literally – You're getting no other credit.

01:29:52.050 --> 01:29:54.270
I'm making babies and then I'm selling my babies.

01:29:54.350 --> 01:29:58.050
So that I'm okay with. Hell no. Do not give me

01:29:58.050 --> 01:30:00.069
credit. I don't want to show up on your line.

01:30:00.090 --> 01:30:01.949
I've seen you when you're on an open mic night

01:30:01.949 --> 01:30:04.550
here. And then I've seen you with Ed Larson.

01:30:05.070 --> 01:30:09.270
And you're always the same. You put on the same

01:30:09.270 --> 01:30:13.430
show no matter what. Yes. You're always giving

01:30:13.430 --> 01:30:17.590
it your fucking all, man. Yeah. And something

01:30:17.590 --> 01:30:20.970
I will betray, I will admit this, because I think

01:30:20.970 --> 01:30:23.229
it's, I don't know, in the moment, I think this

01:30:23.229 --> 01:30:27.069
is important to admit. It's a respect for the

01:30:27.069 --> 01:30:30.630
material more than it is a respect for the audience.

01:30:31.609 --> 01:30:35.510
I'm with you there, man. i stand by my material

01:30:35.510 --> 01:30:40.050
yeah if i leave if i if if an audience doesn't

01:30:40.050 --> 01:30:44.149
get one of my jokes if it made it on stage like

01:30:44.149 --> 01:30:46.010
i'm such a harsh critic of myself if it made

01:30:46.010 --> 01:30:48.529
it on stage like the kernel the nugget is there

01:30:48.529 --> 01:30:50.810
the most i'm gonna learn from an audience is

01:30:50.810 --> 01:30:53.470
like the word order yeah or something like that

01:30:53.470 --> 01:30:55.970
but i'm not gonna slow roll or half -ass one

01:30:55.970 --> 01:30:57.729
of my jokes because it's like i like my jokes

01:30:58.220 --> 01:31:00.359
You're going to get the full -throated delivery.

01:31:00.359 --> 01:31:04.300
If you don't get it, I'm probably going to be

01:31:04.300 --> 01:31:06.859
a little bit more over the top about it. A little

01:31:06.859 --> 01:31:12.260
bit more. But we all have our limitations, too.

01:31:12.479 --> 01:31:16.260
Yeah. I think I can write a good joke. I am absolutely

01:31:16.260 --> 01:31:19.520
dog shit at crowd work. I don't even try it.

01:31:19.600 --> 01:31:23.020
Yeah. I don't even try crowd work. Here's my

01:31:23.020 --> 01:31:25.710
hot take on crowd work, man. I don't think it's

01:31:25.710 --> 01:31:29.210
really worth doing. I think it's what most comics

01:31:29.210 --> 01:31:33.470
are doing to get clips for fucking... 100%. And

01:31:33.470 --> 01:31:38.470
I'm sick of it. I don't like crowd work. I think

01:31:38.470 --> 01:31:41.829
it makes the audience... So to me, when people

01:31:41.829 --> 01:31:46.250
come see a comedy show, they need to know that

01:31:46.250 --> 01:31:48.210
they're going to be taken care of. And they're

01:31:48.210 --> 01:31:49.869
not going to be embarrassed. And they're not

01:31:49.869 --> 01:31:52.329
going to be... And also, I don't want people

01:31:52.329 --> 01:31:55.250
talking during my set. Very true. And so the

01:31:55.250 --> 01:31:58.229
combination of those things for me just, I kind

01:31:58.229 --> 01:32:01.590
of hate crowd work. Yeah. I kind of fucking hate

01:32:01.590 --> 01:32:04.850
it. I don't hate crowd work, but I have a low

01:32:04.850 --> 01:32:08.109
opinion of it. I think you can elevate it. And

01:32:08.109 --> 01:32:10.710
we have local comics that have proven that. A

01:32:10.710 --> 01:32:14.329
lot of the time you're just doing pre -prepared

01:32:14.329 --> 01:32:17.670
material. Exactly. And that is kind of different.

01:32:17.810 --> 01:32:19.770
That is different. It's an elevated style of

01:32:19.770 --> 01:32:22.630
crowd work where it's more, it's. just it's more

01:32:22.630 --> 01:32:25.989
like an interactive set yes you're inviting the

01:32:25.989 --> 01:32:30.529
audience to participate in these relatively scripted

01:32:30.529 --> 01:32:34.010
oh i've got jokes about this job yeah and so

01:32:34.010 --> 01:32:36.050
you can follow into patterns that way yeah no

01:32:36.050 --> 01:32:37.750
i completely agree with i think that's a very

01:32:37.750 --> 01:32:40.069
different thing because like most times even

01:32:40.069 --> 01:32:42.310
like matt rife's like all crowd work special

01:32:42.310 --> 01:32:45.630
like all that it was pretty funny and but it

01:32:45.630 --> 01:32:49.109
was all pre -written none of it was but i i think

01:32:49.109 --> 01:32:54.149
a lot of times just flat, regular, bog -standard

01:32:54.149 --> 01:32:57.850
crowd work is, and I'm going to rip off, I believe

01:32:57.850 --> 01:32:59.949
this was, I'm just going to go ahead and parrot,

01:33:00.109 --> 01:33:02.489
literally parrot, I think this was something

01:33:02.489 --> 01:33:05.229
Anthony Jeselnik said, is crowd work is supposed

01:33:05.229 --> 01:33:07.390
to be the thing that you do when your written

01:33:07.390 --> 01:33:10.970
shit doesn't work. Crowd work is the fallback.

01:33:11.189 --> 01:33:13.890
Yeah. And I do agree with that, wholeheartedly

01:33:13.890 --> 01:33:15.609
agree with that. And I think that's the problem,

01:33:15.689 --> 01:33:17.590
because I agree with that 100 % too, and the

01:33:17.590 --> 01:33:19.510
problem that I see is so many comics starting

01:33:19.510 --> 01:33:22.119
with it. Yeah. before going into the material.

01:33:22.699 --> 01:33:26.060
I think it's the social media thing, especially

01:33:26.060 --> 01:33:29.479
with young comics. Yeah, and I think that's how

01:33:29.479 --> 01:33:32.180
they think that you write jokes. Exactly. Young,

01:33:32.180 --> 01:33:35.060
and I'm talking teenagers, early 20s, mid -20s.

01:33:35.680 --> 01:33:41.020
Their comedy diet is through social media and

01:33:41.020 --> 01:33:43.060
short -form videos, and that's what they're being

01:33:43.060 --> 01:33:45.979
presented. They get the misconception of, that

01:33:45.979 --> 01:33:49.970
must be how it goes. It's all... It's either

01:33:49.970 --> 01:33:53.409
crowd work or a thing I like even less than crowd

01:33:53.409 --> 01:33:58.829
work is the heckler takedown flavor of it. I've

01:33:58.829 --> 01:34:01.229
only done that once. I just want to hear a fucking

01:34:01.229 --> 01:34:05.090
joke, you guys. I've only done that once, and

01:34:05.090 --> 01:34:07.989
it wasn't even really that. It just fit into

01:34:07.989 --> 01:34:11.529
my set so well. Oh, yeah, yeah. I was telling

01:34:11.529 --> 01:34:13.949
a joke about how I think we should listen to

01:34:13.949 --> 01:34:16.170
all women, and then I started talking about Jelaine

01:34:16.170 --> 01:34:20.470
Maxwell. it happens my point is and these women

01:34:20.470 --> 01:34:22.750
are talking at the table right in front and i'm

01:34:22.750 --> 01:34:26.810
like i'm sorry i i'm i want to hear what you

01:34:26.810 --> 01:34:29.270
have to say i'm i think we should listen to all

01:34:29.270 --> 01:34:31.750
women and they were like oh i'm so sorry like

01:34:31.750 --> 01:34:35.369
they should but it was unintentional and improvised

01:34:35.369 --> 01:34:38.010
but yeah there's like this idea that you're gonna

01:34:38.010 --> 01:34:41.569
it's almost i see these comics that get so many

01:34:41.569 --> 01:34:44.829
hecklers yeah That it's like people go to their

01:34:44.829 --> 01:34:48.109
shows so they can be the heckler that gets ripped.

01:34:48.310 --> 01:34:51.189
It's a feedback loop, right? Because what I was

01:34:51.189 --> 01:34:52.829
going to say is that, yeah, if it happens like

01:34:52.829 --> 01:34:55.390
in your situation, if it's organic and it just

01:34:55.390 --> 01:34:58.829
happens naturally and you've got it, maybe throw

01:34:58.829 --> 01:35:00.789
it online and see what happens. But it's these

01:35:00.789 --> 01:35:02.250
are the people who make it part of their brand

01:35:02.250 --> 01:35:06.750
is I'm the guy that'll nuke a heckler. So here's

01:35:06.750 --> 01:35:09.590
not naming names, but here's 10 ,000 videos by

01:35:09.590 --> 01:35:13.420
one guy that's 95 % of them is just. responses

01:35:13.420 --> 01:35:17.159
to hecklers you're going to get a crowd that

01:35:17.159 --> 01:35:20.159
expects that and then there's going to be a percentage

01:35:20.159 --> 01:35:23.640
of that crowd that's going to make damn sure

01:35:23.640 --> 01:35:25.359
that it happens and they're going to be the one

01:35:25.359 --> 01:35:28.979
or they're going to be the giant slayer i'm the

01:35:28.979 --> 01:35:31.359
heckler that the comedian couldn't defeat and

01:35:31.359 --> 01:35:34.279
yeah you get it it's a weird it's a weird symbiosis

01:35:34.279 --> 01:35:36.460
i don't like any of it i think it's all fucking

01:35:36.460 --> 01:35:39.140
i think it's all fucking lousy yeah i do too

01:35:39.140 --> 01:35:42.239
oh shit man This has been an awesome conversation,

01:35:42.439 --> 01:35:43.739
Evan. Is there anything else you want to talk

01:35:43.739 --> 01:35:47.899
about before we wrap it up? I'm sure I'm going

01:35:47.899 --> 01:35:50.060
to have you back at some point. It's been great.

01:35:50.140 --> 01:35:52.739
Love to come back. No, I think we're good. We

01:35:52.739 --> 01:35:56.060
can put a bow on it here. Cool, man. I will have

01:35:56.060 --> 01:35:59.039
links to your music. You don't really put much

01:35:59.039 --> 01:36:00.640
of your stand -up online, do you? Hardly ever.

01:36:01.560 --> 01:36:06.000
I'm pretty bad about it, too. I have never put

01:36:06.000 --> 01:36:10.300
my own stand -up online. Some of my standup that

01:36:10.300 --> 01:36:12.359
exists online, it's been put up by other people.

01:36:12.420 --> 01:36:14.180
Yeah. Usually people who run the show. Yeah.

01:36:14.279 --> 01:36:17.300
I really, I don't prefer that. Yeah. Cause you

01:36:17.300 --> 01:36:19.520
want to be in control of like, yeah, I get it.

01:36:19.640 --> 01:36:22.199
Like a lot of the time it's like, it'll be clipped

01:36:22.199 --> 01:36:25.319
out of context or, or I'll be still working out

01:36:25.319 --> 01:36:27.880
the material or whatever. And yeah, I just don't

01:36:27.880 --> 01:36:31.060
prefer that. Yeah. Yeah. But I do have recordings

01:36:31.060 --> 01:36:33.439
of myself. I just don't do anything with them.

01:36:33.539 --> 01:36:35.539
Yeah. You use them for booking or anything like

01:36:35.539 --> 01:36:39.869
that? I have. Yeah. Yeah. I will. yeah, we transfer

01:36:39.869 --> 01:36:43.729
like a five minute video set to like a, actually

01:36:43.729 --> 01:36:47.649
I just applied to the Bend, Oregon comedy festival.

01:36:47.710 --> 01:36:50.750
Hell yeah, man. I'm, they'll be lucky to have

01:36:50.750 --> 01:36:56.149
you like for real. And dude, I hope that maybe

01:36:56.149 --> 01:36:58.670
the fact that you're not left with much other

01:36:58.670 --> 01:37:02.890
choice right now, I hope that you're really fucking

01:37:02.890 --> 01:37:04.829
funny, Evan. And I know you don't take compliments

01:37:04.829 --> 01:37:07.750
well, but you're, you're one of my favorite comedians,

01:37:07.770 --> 01:37:10.159
like period. Thank you so much. Thank you. I

01:37:10.159 --> 01:37:12.279
appreciate it. It's been a fucking pleasure having

01:37:12.279 --> 01:37:15.300
you here, brother. Thank you. All right, that

01:37:15.300 --> 01:37:17.420
was my talk with Evan Rossi. We'll see you next

01:37:17.420 --> 01:37:20.699
week with Professor Franz Nicolai of The Hold

01:37:20.699 --> 01:37:23.460
Steady. We're just getting started on this season,

01:37:23.560 --> 01:37:26.920
so hit subscribe. Take it away, Sloan.