WEBVTT

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At one point, you look around and you realize

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that you're actually part of something. You're

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not just sitting back passively enjoying this

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thing and consuming a product. There's no product.

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There's no consumer. It's just an experience

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that everybody's having, and it's really cool.

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Welcome to overeducated and underemployed. You

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got fed in here. Thanks to those of you that

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came out to the Blue Tavern on Friday for the

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Danny Bedrosian solo show playing a historic

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set of Parliament and Funkadelic songs. It was

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really cool. George Clinton showed up and sat

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in for pretty much the entire set. He showed

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up like in the third song and then stayed the

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entire show. It was really incredible. Let us

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in like a gospel sing -along. So come out to

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the Phipps Farm on April 11th for the Parliament

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Funkadelic Festival. Let's take it to the stage.

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I can't wait. I'll be there. Come say, hey, we'll

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be broadcasting live during doing some interviews,

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maybe broadcasting a performance or two. I really

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hope you come out for that. And kids 12 and under

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get in free with their parents. That's April

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11th at the Phipps Farm. There is a ticket link

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in the description of the episode. And it's really

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fitting to have Carrie Hamby on the show this

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week. She's the owner of the Blue Tavern. And

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she was there Friday, obviously. when danny and

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george were playing together and that was the

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look on her face was priceless it was pretty

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cool because nobody knew that george was gonna

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show up i don't even think danny knew for sure

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i think it was like a maybe he will maybe he

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won't thing they're gonna be playing a show together

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at word of south so i think that's probably a

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pretty good preview i did videotape the whole

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thing so we're gonna be getting some exclusive

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clips on the youtube channel So if you are on

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a different platform, make sure you check out

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the YouTube channel. There is going to be some

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bonus stuff that's only available there. This

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week, we have Carrie Hamby, who is the owner

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of the Blue Tavern, as I mentioned. She also

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plays in Belmont and Jones, who play every last

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Tuesday at the Blue Tavern. March 31st is their

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next one. She's also part of... The History of

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Punk, Legacy of Punk Festival this weekend. She's

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playing with a group on Sunday at The Bark. We

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had a great conversation about music and the

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struggle of owning a venue in these times. And

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yeah, it was great. I hope you enjoy it. And

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stay tuned afterwards. I'll tell you about some

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shows coming up at the Blue Tavern. Welcome to

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Overeducated and Under and Full Road. I'm here

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with Carrie Hamby. She is the owner of the Blue

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Tavern and a musician. And I want to get into

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all of it and probably a bunch of other stuff

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I don't even know about. I'm going to ask you

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the first question I ask everybody. Okay. And

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that's, what's the first song that you remember

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loving as a kid? Oh, it was probably something

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on the Herb Alpert Tijuana Brass album that we

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played over and over again. I love those records.

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Yeah, my brother and I would. We pretty much

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had full reign of the record player. It was one

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of those pieces of furniture record players that

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was huge in the living room. We'd dance around

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and we'd listen to that. I forget what the song

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was. It was probably Acapulco or something like

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that. And we also listened to Jesus Christ Superstar

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a lot. Yeah, that musical. Other than that, it

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was probably the entire oeuvre of Disney animated

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classics. Somebody gave us the whole pile of

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records from Alice in Wonderland. Yeah. Those

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had really beautiful artwork on them, too. They

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had all the full color print. I can see those

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being super enticing as a kid. Yeah, and the

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production value. It really got me listening

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to songs in a big way. Yeah, yeah. Were you,

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so it sounds like you were in a pretty musical

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household, but your parents weren't, music was

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around at least, but your parents weren't like

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playing stuff for you? It sounds like you. I

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think that sometimes they did. Sometimes they

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did. My mom was really, she still is very into.

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classical music. So she had the whole, she had

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a whole library of classical albums and she would

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put them on when it came time to clean the house.

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She had everybody helping her. All the kids would

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help. She'd put on an album and blast it. And

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it would be like Chopin or something or the Brandenburg

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concertos or something. And she'd be dancing

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around. It's good motivational music. Definitely.

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Yeah, for sure. My dad was always more into Broadway

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musicals, stuff like that. So we had all the

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Broadway musical collections, South Pacific over

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and over again, Music Man. The Music Man is probably

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my, it's definitely a top five, but it might

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be my favorite musical of all time. The original

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with Robert Preston is just so good. Were you

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interested in playing music at a young age or

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were you just like consuming this stuff at this

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point? I was probably, yeah, I was probably breathing

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music from as far back as I can remember. What

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I can remember, the first time I really wanted

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to start playing was I grew up in the church.

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There was a traveling choir with a pianist. coming

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through and they did a special performance for

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us it was probably after the church service probably

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after the dinner the church dinner and this guy

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sat down and played and he was this big huge

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guy and he sat down at the we had a baby grand

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piano in the sanctuary and he sat down and just

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started wailing on that piano and it was like

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later on I would hear things like like Rhapsody

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in Blue or something like that. I'd think, that's

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the kind of piano he was playing. He was playing

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that kind of piano. Do you need to stop? No,

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we're good. I'm just checking on things. I'm

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listening to you. So did you start playing piano

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pretty young? I listened to that. I was probably

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four years old, and I said, that's what I want

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to do. And we didn't have a piano then. My parents

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found somebody in the church that wanted to get

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rid of their piano and ended up in our house.

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And it ended up in my house until probably 20

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years ago. And I've just played it constantly.

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Did you take lessons? Yeah, I took lessons. I

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didn't really get into the lessons until I was

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more like five. That makes sense, to be fair.

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Yeah, when I was four, I wasn't really ready.

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But my teacher said, hey, if you really want

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to do this, you can do this, but you've got to

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work at it. You've actually got to sit down and

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practice. It's one thing we've talked about on

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this podcast before is just having the talent

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to do something isn't even everything. You have

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to really want to put the time in and the effort

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in. And that takes a desire to want to really

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be good at it. And there's all these other things.

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And also, if you don't have that innate talent,

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most of the time you can develop it somewhere.

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But it sounds like you had a very kind of early

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affiliation, and you were in tune with it all.

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Yeah, I had a really good ear. I had a good ear.

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I didn't have the willingness to sit down and

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look at the page and figure out what things are

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until a couple years later. But once I got that,

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then the math brain kicks in. into the music

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theory, and I got it, and it was so fun. It was

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like a little puzzle that you can figure out.

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Yeah. You go, oh, everything makes sense, even

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though nothing makes sense. You can say, oh,

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this little part of the world makes sense. And

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then someone shows you an Eastern scale, and

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you're like, what? Yeah. So, yeah, I had a lot

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of fun with it. I played pretty much constantly

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for the next 10, 12 years. Did you... Did you

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start playing with other people or you were just

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playing by yourself? No, that's the thing about

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the piano. Unless people are coming to your house,

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which they weren't. I didn't know anybody who

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played who wanted to come over to the house and

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play when I was 10. Where did you grow up? When

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I started taking lessons was when I was living

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in southern Indiana. Okay. Yeah. And then you

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moved where as a kid? I moved, when I was 10,

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I moved to Ohio for about four years. And I got,

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it took me a little bit to find the right teacher,

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but I ended up finding this great teacher there.

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And she was probably 70, 80 years old, but introduced

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me to ragtime. And that just changed my whole

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perspective. She was still very much tied to

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the page. I was tied to the page until. until

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I left home, and I didn't have lessons anymore.

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I was just trying to figure out what I was going

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to do musically. But you had a piano. How long

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did you go without a piano when you left home?

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Oh, man. I went without a piano all four years

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of college. I didn't really have a place to practice,

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and I didn't have a piano anywhere nearby. And

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then the first probably three years of living

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up here. Yeah, probably seven years, maybe even

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eight years, I didn't have a piano. And so you

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moved to Tallahassee, and what kind of prompted

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that move? I graduated from New College, and

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I was engaged to be married at that time, and

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my fiancé and I, who was later my husband, we

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said, let's both try to get a job in Tallahassee,

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because we both really liked Tallahassee. He

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was more into it than I was, but we both had

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this idea of working in state government. I thought

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I could find something there. It very quickly

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became clear to me that I did not fit in there.

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State government? No. I later got a state job,

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but it wasn't in the legislature. They had an

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internship program. you had to go through all

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these hurdles, all these hoops to get in. So

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I, yeah, I gave up on that after we moved up

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here and we, our agreement was if one of us gets

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the job, gets the internship, we'll move up there.

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If both of us do, of course, but if whoever doesn't

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get it, we'll just work and find something to

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do until we can figure out what we're doing.

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We were just kind of like free forming. He got

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a job and he's still there. And I, Yeah, so I

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worked in a lot of different jobs after that.

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And that was fine. I didn't really have a career

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after that. What were some of the ones you enjoyed

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and the ones you didn't? I always like asking

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about... The ones I enjoyed and the ones I didn't.

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I was one of the first people to work on Macintosh

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computers in the printing business in Tallahassee.

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That's how far back that goes. And this was in

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the mid-'80s. Late 80s. And I enjoyed that. I

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enjoyed doing the desktop publishing. And I was

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in paste up before that. I was working at the

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Flambeau. Okay. Did learn how to do darkroom

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stuff and all the paste up. And I learned how

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to use a line of type and picture what's there.

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It wasn't WYSIWYG. It was like you had to figure

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out what your letting was going to be, how much

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space you needed for the next line, all that

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stuff. And it had to be. right when it printed

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out. And if it wasn't, you had to do it all over

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again. It was a pain in the ass. For you kids

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out there, a WYSIWYG is what you get. It's the

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kind of design that a lot of people get to use

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now. You just take it for granted now. Right,

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exactly. But back then, we had a whole name for

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it. Typesetting was... A whole field of expertise

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that I just slid into by accident. And I did

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that for a few years. I'm trying to think of

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what I did after that. Were you playing music

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at all this time? I wasn't. I found some people

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to play music with off and on. And it was to

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varying levels of satisfaction. When did you

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start playing with others? Because you mentioned

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earlier. You weren't really playing with other

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people. Oh, when I was playing piano? I tell

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you, when I started playing with other people

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was when I picked up the guitar. I had a shout

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-out to my friend Linda Mutiner. She still lives

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in St. Pete. And she lived down the street from

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me and taught me my first chords on the guitar.

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And I like to tell everybody, especially in front

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of her, that she taught me how to play my first

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chords on the guitar, and she also taught me

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how to smoke cigarettes. Thank you. That was

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a revelation, though, because I got to play with

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other people. That was, like, never a thing.

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I take that back. I did play with other people

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because I was the accompanist. So I was in the

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background while somebody else was singing, or

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I was providing a background for somebody to

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play a flute solo or something like that. But

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playing with other people in... In a creative

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way. In a creative way, where it's not... Everything

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is not already on the page. And then that's really

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what I meant, too. And I'm curious, were you

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writing songs on the piano? Not really. So was

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the guitar kind of your way into writing songs?

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Or is that not something that you do a lot of?

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I write a lot now, but I didn't write for a long

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time. I got into bluegrass and old time music.

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Once I started playing guitar. I also had a friend

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who taught me how to play mandolin, and there

00:15:29.059 --> 00:15:32.679
were a bunch of people meeting every week or

00:15:32.679 --> 00:15:36.679
so to play bluegrass and old time music. And

00:15:36.679 --> 00:15:40.639
so I got into that, and I developed my ear more

00:15:40.639 --> 00:15:42.539
that way because there was nothing written down.

00:15:42.700 --> 00:15:45.980
We were just following the chord changes. Gotcha.

00:15:46.159 --> 00:15:47.840
And I knew what the chord changes looked like

00:15:47.840 --> 00:15:50.559
by that point because I had... Learn how to play

00:15:50.559 --> 00:15:53.759
the chords. And so when you're playing the mandolin

00:15:53.759 --> 00:15:55.519
or the fiddle or the banjo or something like

00:15:55.519 --> 00:15:57.360
that, you look at the guitar player's left hand

00:15:57.360 --> 00:16:00.440
to see what the chord changes are. And then a

00:16:00.440 --> 00:16:03.759
few years later, I figured out the, some people

00:16:03.759 --> 00:16:06.539
call it the Nashville method, where you just

00:16:06.539 --> 00:16:09.460
do, you understand what the one, four, five and

00:16:09.460 --> 00:16:13.000
the relative minor are. And you can pretty much

00:16:13.000 --> 00:16:17.200
figure out most things from that. You start playing

00:16:17.200 --> 00:16:20.110
guitar. You start playing with other people.

00:16:20.570 --> 00:16:24.669
Yeah. What were you listening to that wasn't...

00:16:24.669 --> 00:16:27.049
Because we talked about what you were listening

00:16:27.049 --> 00:16:30.269
to early on, but what was some of the popular

00:16:30.269 --> 00:16:33.490
stuff? Or were you into popular music at that

00:16:33.490 --> 00:16:36.590
point? I was into all kinds of music. What did

00:16:36.590 --> 00:16:40.450
you grow up listening to? Let's see. Besides

00:16:40.450 --> 00:16:42.610
the stuff that we talked about that my parents

00:16:42.610 --> 00:16:46.029
were listening to, I had an older brother who

00:16:46.029 --> 00:16:49.740
would bring home stuff like... Queen records,

00:16:49.960 --> 00:16:52.879
and I'd listen to those. ELO, those two really

00:16:52.879 --> 00:16:56.960
stand out. Maybe Yes. There was a kid in the

00:16:56.960 --> 00:16:59.259
neighborhood who was really into the Beatles,

00:16:59.399 --> 00:17:02.620
and he would get all the other kids over to his

00:17:02.620 --> 00:17:05.660
room to listen to the latest thing that he'd

00:17:05.660 --> 00:17:07.279
gotten from the Beatles, even though the Beatles,

00:17:07.519 --> 00:17:19.130
this was like 1978 by now. They were gone. But

00:17:19.130 --> 00:17:23.509
that was his theme, was the Beatles. So what

00:17:23.509 --> 00:17:27.950
I was listening to on my own, after that probably,

00:17:28.190 --> 00:17:32.750
I listened to a lot of AM radio. Oh, cool. Yeah,

00:17:32.769 --> 00:17:36.750
I got a little transistor that I could put in

00:17:36.750 --> 00:17:39.690
under my pillow so nobody could hear that I was

00:17:39.690 --> 00:17:42.690
listening to the radio instead of sleeping. And

00:17:42.690 --> 00:17:46.819
I would listen to... I can't even remember. Let's

00:17:46.819 --> 00:17:50.119
see. Now that I've said that, I'm thinking CBS

00:17:50.119 --> 00:17:53.339
Radio Mystery Theater. I was listening to that

00:17:53.339 --> 00:17:57.880
a lot. Do you think that sort of thing influenced

00:17:57.880 --> 00:18:02.160
your songwriting later on? Everything's an influence.

00:18:02.660 --> 00:18:06.819
Everything. So talk about that. When you're writing,

00:18:06.900 --> 00:18:10.099
do you consciously try to bring in influences

00:18:10.099 --> 00:18:12.240
or is it just like what comes out of you? No,

00:18:12.259 --> 00:18:16.140
I really don't do that. It's going to come out

00:18:16.140 --> 00:18:20.019
whether you want it to or not. I don't feel like

00:18:20.019 --> 00:18:25.279
making something harken back to another thing.

00:18:25.940 --> 00:18:30.059
That doesn't do much for me. I have done it as

00:18:30.059 --> 00:18:33.460
an exercise just to see if I can write a ragtime

00:18:33.460 --> 00:18:38.700
of something. When I was in my teens, especially

00:18:38.700 --> 00:18:40.880
when I left home, I started listening to all

00:18:40.880 --> 00:18:44.519
kinds of stuff. I was listening to Prince. I

00:18:44.519 --> 00:18:48.059
love Joe Jackson. I love Joe Jackson. Especially

00:18:48.059 --> 00:18:50.440
that record of like Louis Jordan covers he did,

00:18:50.579 --> 00:18:53.619
Jump and Jive. Do you remember that record? Yeah,

00:18:53.640 --> 00:18:55.700
it was the first one I ever listened to. Me too,

00:18:55.880 --> 00:18:58.319
of his, yeah. I love that record. I still have

00:18:58.319 --> 00:19:02.500
it. I got it over there. And that, I was already

00:19:02.500 --> 00:19:04.940
into Big Band and stuff like that a little bit,

00:19:04.980 --> 00:19:08.359
but I think hearing like a more modern take on

00:19:08.359 --> 00:19:14.029
it was just like... Yeah. Otherworldly to me.

00:19:14.450 --> 00:19:17.430
And he took everything a step further. It felt

00:19:17.430 --> 00:19:19.910
to me like he was taking everything a step further.

00:19:19.970 --> 00:19:23.650
Like he was really just completely eaten up with

00:19:23.650 --> 00:19:28.269
it. It wasn't just a show. It was an experience.

00:19:28.829 --> 00:19:33.430
And what was the other thing I was thinking about

00:19:33.430 --> 00:19:36.069
back then? I was like Sun Ra. I was listening

00:19:36.069 --> 00:19:39.630
to Sun Ra. And I was also listening to John Fahey.

00:19:39.950 --> 00:19:44.329
Oh, cool. Yeah. who was just an absolute monster

00:19:44.329 --> 00:19:47.769
on the guitar. Were you going to concerts at

00:19:47.769 --> 00:19:50.569
all as a kid or as a teenager? No, I wasn't going

00:19:50.569 --> 00:19:54.970
to much. The first live music concert I went

00:19:54.970 --> 00:19:57.769
to that was on my own with a friend from high

00:19:57.769 --> 00:20:01.670
school was Fog Hat. Oh, nice. At the Lakeland,

00:20:01.829 --> 00:20:05.769
what was it called? The big arena there in Lakeland.

00:20:06.490 --> 00:20:11.440
Anyway. Good old Fog. Oh, no, no, no. Foghat

00:20:11.440 --> 00:20:16.099
was opening for Blue Oyster Cult. That was it.

00:20:16.180 --> 00:20:20.859
Blue Oyster Cult. Yeah. Nice. And they were already

00:20:20.859 --> 00:20:24.059
pretty well seasoned by then. Yeah, yeah. They

00:20:24.059 --> 00:20:27.200
were just going through the motions, but it was

00:20:27.200 --> 00:20:30.059
phenomenal, though, because I had never been

00:20:30.059 --> 00:20:34.359
to anything that big. Gotcha, gotcha. Yeah. Other

00:20:34.359 --> 00:20:37.099
than that. Yeah, I didn't get out much. I didn't

00:20:37.099 --> 00:20:39.200
have a car. When did you really fall in love

00:20:39.200 --> 00:20:42.819
with live music, or was it always about the playing

00:20:42.819 --> 00:20:45.180
with other people? Because if you weren't going

00:20:45.180 --> 00:20:48.559
to a lot of live shows as a kid, but now you

00:20:48.559 --> 00:20:52.660
own a live music venue. I'm trying to figure

00:20:52.660 --> 00:20:57.220
out at what point did you feel like, oh, I love

00:20:57.220 --> 00:21:00.680
live music so much that I want to do that with

00:21:00.680 --> 00:21:05.160
everything. As with most things in my career

00:21:05.160 --> 00:21:07.920
of sorts, it's not really a career, but in my

00:21:07.920 --> 00:21:12.660
work history, everything was accidental. So I

00:21:12.660 --> 00:21:18.359
started playing blues with Belmont, and we did

00:21:18.359 --> 00:21:21.779
that for, we'd been playing together for about

00:21:21.779 --> 00:21:26.500
15, 16 years now. And you all play as Belmont

00:21:26.500 --> 00:21:27.940
and Jones. Belmont and Jones. I just want to,

00:21:27.960 --> 00:21:30.140
for the listeners. Belmont and Jones, I'm Jones.

00:21:31.130 --> 00:21:33.150
I'm so glad you're doing this at 1 o 'clock.

00:21:33.809 --> 00:21:37.369
The last time I did anything like this, I don't

00:21:37.369 --> 00:21:39.069
even think it was a podcast. I think it was a

00:21:39.069 --> 00:21:43.190
live radio show, and it was at 9 a .m. No, no.

00:21:43.750 --> 00:21:46.230
Oh, my God. It's like just late enough to be

00:21:46.230 --> 00:21:48.549
awake but not late enough to be worn out. Yeah,

00:21:48.630 --> 00:21:51.450
yeah. Early afternoon is the best time for these.

00:21:51.450 --> 00:21:55.029
The happy medium. Yeah. Okay, so what happened

00:21:55.029 --> 00:21:59.809
was Maggie McKeown, Belmont's partner, decides

00:21:59.809 --> 00:22:02.309
that she wants to open up a venue, and she starts

00:22:02.309 --> 00:22:06.410
looking at places in town, and Josh's place,

00:22:06.529 --> 00:22:09.890
which was the speakeasy, he was just getting

00:22:09.890 --> 00:22:13.769
ready to sell at the very moment. It was almost

00:22:13.769 --> 00:22:16.849
like the planets lined up. And that place was,

00:22:17.029 --> 00:22:20.529
I feel like, it was a really cool spot, but I

00:22:20.529 --> 00:22:23.170
feel like they never quite found their footing

00:22:23.170 --> 00:22:27.329
or figured out their crowd or anything like that.

00:22:27.450 --> 00:22:32.109
It was just... It popped up for a year, maybe

00:22:32.109 --> 00:22:37.490
two. Two years, yeah. Yeah, if they'd been able

00:22:37.490 --> 00:22:39.450
to keep going, it would have been really nice

00:22:39.450 --> 00:22:43.910
because it definitely filled a niche. So it was

00:22:43.910 --> 00:22:47.609
like the Leon Pub, only more about the music.

00:22:47.789 --> 00:22:51.490
Right. They did have live music. Yeah. The seating

00:22:51.490 --> 00:22:53.809
arrangement made it hard to see because of the

00:22:53.809 --> 00:22:55.789
booths and things like that. I'm remembering.

00:22:56.210 --> 00:22:58.420
Yeah, the booths. You did a lot of remodeling

00:22:58.420 --> 00:23:02.400
when you took over that space. Maggie took over

00:23:02.400 --> 00:23:07.759
in 2016. Okay. And the way it went was I had

00:23:07.759 --> 00:23:13.500
just taken a job at the state as a part -time

00:23:13.500 --> 00:23:17.559
person over at Mission San Luis because I needed

00:23:17.559 --> 00:23:20.079
to get off the road and stop constantly booking

00:23:20.079 --> 00:23:22.920
and constantly. worrying about where we were

00:23:22.920 --> 00:23:25.000
going to play, and that was really wearing me

00:23:25.000 --> 00:23:27.819
down. I used to blacksmith with one of the guys

00:23:27.819 --> 00:23:31.740
that worked over there. Jim. That doesn't sound

00:23:31.740 --> 00:23:35.740
right. There was a bunch of them. The thing is,

00:23:35.859 --> 00:23:38.400
there's also a group of them that meet, and so

00:23:38.400 --> 00:23:43.059
I think I've met Jim. Oh, yeah. John, I think,

00:23:43.059 --> 00:23:46.470
is who I was working with. And Mission St. Louis

00:23:46.470 --> 00:23:48.130
is a really cool spot. Do you want to talk about

00:23:48.130 --> 00:23:49.990
that spot for a minute? It's a very cool spot.

00:23:50.210 --> 00:23:52.410
I don't think we've ever really talked about

00:23:52.410 --> 00:23:56.690
it on this podcast before. Oh, okay. It's an

00:23:56.690 --> 00:24:00.049
open -air museum. And at the time I was working

00:24:00.049 --> 00:24:04.710
there, they had a full staff of reenactors, living

00:24:04.710 --> 00:24:06.690
history interpreters, if you want to call it.

00:24:07.009 --> 00:24:10.789
And I had a great job. I got to do all the cooking

00:24:10.789 --> 00:24:15.660
outside. Right next to the Spanish lady's house.

00:24:15.799 --> 00:24:17.940
They quote Spanish lady's house. And for those

00:24:17.940 --> 00:24:19.900
of y 'all that don't know, Mission San Luis is

00:24:19.900 --> 00:24:23.380
a, it was a Spanish settlement. Yeah. And now

00:24:23.380 --> 00:24:26.079
it, and then it was an archaeological site. And

00:24:26.079 --> 00:24:29.940
now they've rebuilt that settlement. Yeah. With

00:24:29.940 --> 00:24:33.859
the original like methodologies of building in

00:24:33.859 --> 00:24:37.619
a lot of cases. And it's a really fascinating

00:24:37.619 --> 00:24:41.750
like archaeological site as well as museum. And

00:24:41.750 --> 00:24:43.569
they did this living history thing for a long

00:24:43.569 --> 00:24:46.990
time. I just want to give people a little bit

00:24:46.990 --> 00:24:48.730
of back. We've got listeners that have never

00:24:48.730 --> 00:24:51.930
been there. That are not from here. Yeah. And

00:24:51.930 --> 00:24:53.970
even if you are from here, if you haven't been

00:24:53.970 --> 00:24:55.690
out there, you need to get out there. It's really

00:24:55.690 --> 00:25:00.170
amazing. It's wild. And it was the center of

00:25:00.170 --> 00:25:03.109
government for the Indian town, for the Apalachee

00:25:03.109 --> 00:25:05.529
town that was here before the Creeks moved in.

00:25:05.809 --> 00:25:10.160
So it goes way, way back. Dodo's settlement,

00:25:10.420 --> 00:25:13.420
if I'm not mistaken. Wasn't he involved with

00:25:13.420 --> 00:25:17.940
that settlement at one point? I don't think so.

00:25:18.079 --> 00:25:20.900
No? Okay. For some reason, I'm thinking. Anyway,

00:25:21.119 --> 00:25:25.759
it is on the... I'm a historian of science, so

00:25:25.759 --> 00:25:28.859
I don't know. What do they call it? It's on the

00:25:28.859 --> 00:25:32.640
King's Road. Goes right through it. And you can

00:25:32.640 --> 00:25:34.619
see, if you're on the grounds of the Mission

00:25:34.619 --> 00:25:38.710
San Luis, you can go to a certain place. In the

00:25:38.710 --> 00:25:42.990
middle, like the buildings are situated in a

00:25:42.990 --> 00:25:44.549
circle, and you can go in the middle of that

00:25:44.549 --> 00:25:47.569
circle and look due west, and you can see the

00:25:47.569 --> 00:25:50.750
remnants of the road. And that is a really cool

00:25:50.750 --> 00:25:53.869
experience. That's wild. Yeah. Yeah. There's

00:25:53.869 --> 00:25:56.670
nothing left except just a dip. It's kind of

00:25:56.670 --> 00:25:58.450
like, okay, this is where the – it's kind of

00:25:58.450 --> 00:26:01.650
like looking at an old rail bed. And you were

00:26:01.650 --> 00:26:03.470
one of the reenactors. You were doing some of

00:26:03.470 --> 00:26:05.730
the – Yeah, so I was doing that. Can you give

00:26:05.730 --> 00:26:07.450
them an example of, like, how you would cook?

00:26:07.869 --> 00:26:10.349
there that would is different than like how we

00:26:10.349 --> 00:26:14.029
would cook now in terms of doing the reenacting

00:26:14.029 --> 00:26:18.809
oh yeah i was using all cast iron or either cast

00:26:18.809 --> 00:26:23.109
iron or wrought iron cookware and i was on a

00:26:23.109 --> 00:26:27.269
spider over an open flame a spider is like a

00:26:27.269 --> 00:26:33.589
grate a very rudimentary grate and you can they

00:26:33.589 --> 00:26:37.950
had a A pole stretched out over the fire pit

00:26:37.950 --> 00:26:41.569
where you could hang. They have an S hook that

00:26:41.569 --> 00:26:44.450
you would hang a big, like a Dutch oven type

00:26:44.450 --> 00:26:47.470
of thing with a handle. And I would do all the

00:26:47.470 --> 00:26:51.750
cooking right there over the flame, which was

00:26:51.750 --> 00:26:55.890
great. But you were also doing some work at the

00:26:55.890 --> 00:27:00.690
Blue Tavern. No, this is pre -Blue Tavern. But

00:27:00.690 --> 00:27:02.960
you had just started there. I had just started

00:27:02.960 --> 00:27:06.799
there. Yeah, I'd been there for maybe less than

00:27:06.799 --> 00:27:11.380
six months. But I had told Maggie, if you ever

00:27:11.380 --> 00:27:13.539
want to open up a venue, because I'd heard that

00:27:13.539 --> 00:27:16.680
she wanted to. I said, we really need more venues

00:27:16.680 --> 00:27:18.660
in this town. It was during that time when we

00:27:18.660 --> 00:27:22.220
hardly had anything as far as live music venues.

00:27:22.799 --> 00:27:26.660
And I just had Justin Long on a couple of weeks

00:27:26.660 --> 00:27:28.920
ago. At this point, when this comes out, it will

00:27:28.920 --> 00:27:31.839
have been a couple of months ago. We talked about

00:27:31.839 --> 00:27:34.099
in the early 2000s, and I'm not sure if you were

00:27:34.099 --> 00:27:36.660
in Tallahassee yet at that point, but in the

00:27:36.660 --> 00:27:39.900
early 2000s, there was so much live original

00:27:39.900 --> 00:27:43.660
music, full bands. Five bands got signed out

00:27:43.660 --> 00:27:46.980
of Tallahassee in the same year. It's cyclical.

00:27:47.359 --> 00:27:52.500
And it really did, like, by 2016, there really

00:27:52.500 --> 00:27:55.059
was nothing, like, at all. Like, less than there

00:27:55.059 --> 00:27:58.740
is now. Yeah, there were a lot of forces against

00:27:58.740 --> 00:28:02.230
it. But anyway, I told Maggie, if you ever want

00:28:02.230 --> 00:28:04.809
to open up a venue, I will drop whatever I'm

00:28:04.809 --> 00:28:07.750
doing. And those were fateful words, I'll tell

00:28:07.750 --> 00:28:12.410
you. I was like, okay, this happened. And she

00:28:12.410 --> 00:28:15.410
said, you want to partner with me? We weren't

00:28:15.410 --> 00:28:17.150
really partners. I was basically working for

00:28:17.150 --> 00:28:19.029
her. But she said, you want to be my music person?

00:28:19.150 --> 00:28:22.289
And I said, yes. You dropped the cast iron skillet

00:28:22.289 --> 00:28:26.210
on the ground right now. Right in the fire. And

00:28:26.210 --> 00:28:31.079
yeah, so that's. She bought the place in July,

00:28:31.200 --> 00:28:35.660
and we were open by October. And there was a

00:28:35.660 --> 00:28:39.819
lot of work in between. And let's talk about

00:28:39.819 --> 00:28:42.160
what are some of the things that you weren't

00:28:42.160 --> 00:28:45.839
expecting that would need to be done when opening

00:28:45.839 --> 00:28:50.279
a music venue? Rebuilding the bathroom. Oh, yeah.

00:28:50.799 --> 00:28:57.160
Yeah. When... When you have a venue, you're responsible

00:28:57.160 --> 00:28:59.839
for the people that are in there. And they're

00:28:59.839 --> 00:29:03.779
having a good time. They're having a safe time.

00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:07.559
You're responsible for what happens there. And

00:29:07.559 --> 00:29:11.480
it's her being the owner, she was legally responsible.

00:29:11.900 --> 00:29:14.619
But I felt a very deep sense of responsibility

00:29:14.619 --> 00:29:17.920
for people having a good time and having the

00:29:17.920 --> 00:29:20.180
kind of experience where they would want to come

00:29:20.180 --> 00:29:23.900
back. Because when we started out, It wasn't

00:29:23.900 --> 00:29:28.680
like a college kid hangout. It wasn't a hangout

00:29:28.680 --> 00:29:31.720
for any particular group of people. She had just

00:29:31.720 --> 00:29:34.859
moved back to town. She knew some people, but

00:29:34.859 --> 00:29:37.619
she didn't know a lot of people that were going

00:29:37.619 --> 00:29:41.339
out. And it was at that period of time when acoustic

00:29:41.339 --> 00:29:46.700
musicians were not touring and they were doing

00:29:46.700 --> 00:29:51.500
house concerts instead of playing in bars. Because...

00:29:52.070 --> 00:29:54.109
you take your chances when you're playing at

00:29:54.109 --> 00:29:57.470
a bar. As you've experienced with Taylor Hollingsworth.

00:29:57.910 --> 00:30:00.369
Yeah, people are going to talk. They're going

00:30:00.369 --> 00:30:02.650
to talk while you're playing sometimes. And I

00:30:02.650 --> 00:30:05.329
came to find out, I was talking, we talked the

00:30:05.329 --> 00:30:08.089
next day after that show, or no, we talked right

00:30:08.089 --> 00:30:10.849
before that show, but I saw him the next day.

00:30:11.130 --> 00:30:13.470
in Jacksonville. Those people were his friends

00:30:13.470 --> 00:30:15.549
that came from out of town. Like a lot of the

00:30:15.549 --> 00:30:17.789
people talking were like his friends that came

00:30:17.789 --> 00:30:20.430
from out of town to see him play. Yeah. And then

00:30:20.430 --> 00:30:22.829
they sat there and talked the whole time. I've

00:30:22.829 --> 00:30:25.190
had my friends show up to see a show that I was

00:30:25.190 --> 00:30:27.109
playing in and they'll be like jabbering the

00:30:27.109 --> 00:30:31.460
whole time. And it's just okay. Frank Linamood.

00:30:31.599 --> 00:30:33.559
You ever had Frank Linamood on this show? No.

00:30:33.640 --> 00:30:36.180
You should get him. Okay, yeah. No, I've been

00:30:36.180 --> 00:30:39.559
in the works to talk to him, yeah. Yeah, he'll

00:30:39.559 --> 00:30:43.880
tell you. He could tell you so many stories.

00:30:44.380 --> 00:30:46.900
But he said something that was really... He doesn't

00:30:46.900 --> 00:30:49.059
have much of a filter either, which I've always

00:30:49.059 --> 00:30:52.940
enjoyed. If he's allowed to bring his flask.

00:30:53.500 --> 00:30:57.150
I don't have any rules here except... Oh, good.

00:30:57.329 --> 00:31:01.089
Let me get out my syringe here. That's what you

00:31:01.089 --> 00:31:04.029
want to do on camera. No, he said something that

00:31:04.029 --> 00:31:06.650
really... You might demonetize the video if someone

00:31:06.650 --> 00:31:10.450
starts shooting up. Anyway. Our sponsor today...

00:31:10.450 --> 00:31:16.970
Narcan. Yeah, Narcan. TMH Apalachee. He said,

00:31:17.109 --> 00:31:19.529
I don't really care if there's people talking

00:31:19.529 --> 00:31:20.869
while I'm playing. It means they're having a

00:31:20.869 --> 00:31:25.049
good time. Now... There's a line between people

00:31:25.049 --> 00:31:26.769
talking while you're playing and people yelling

00:31:26.769 --> 00:31:29.589
so much that you can't hear yourself. And I've

00:31:29.589 --> 00:31:31.730
played in plenty of places like that. That's

00:31:31.730 --> 00:31:34.349
why we have monitors. I think there's also, there's

00:31:34.349 --> 00:31:38.369
a difference between a bar band and like a concert.

00:31:38.670 --> 00:31:42.990
Yeah. And I think that you have always had to

00:31:42.990 --> 00:31:45.789
really kind of walk that line because. And the

00:31:45.789 --> 00:31:48.309
line is constantly shifting. They're really,

00:31:48.329 --> 00:31:53.190
it's very fuzzy. And then, and to me. A concert,

00:31:53.230 --> 00:31:57.730
the word concert is misleading a lot of times.

00:31:57.789 --> 00:32:04.029
I feel that in our culture, seeing music, I'm

00:32:04.029 --> 00:32:07.990
using my air quotes here, seeing music, hearing

00:32:07.990 --> 00:32:10.849
music, going to a concert, experiencing a concert

00:32:10.849 --> 00:32:15.609
is unnecessarily putting you at a distance from

00:32:15.609 --> 00:32:19.170
the music, from the creative process that's going

00:32:19.170 --> 00:32:23.210
on on stage. The stage... In the Blue Tavern,

00:32:23.210 --> 00:32:24.930
there's not much of a line between the stage

00:32:24.930 --> 00:32:27.109
and the rest of the room because of necessity,

00:32:27.230 --> 00:32:30.109
because it's such a tiny room and there's no

00:32:30.109 --> 00:32:36.029
change in altitude there. But I think the best

00:32:36.029 --> 00:32:40.490
musical experiences I've ever had that could

00:32:40.490 --> 00:32:44.829
be classified as concerts were ones in which

00:32:44.829 --> 00:32:49.299
the audience was participating. And I'm not talking

00:32:49.299 --> 00:32:51.319
about necessarily, okay, we're going to have

00:32:51.319 --> 00:32:54.539
a sing -along here. Everybody sing along. It's

00:32:54.539 --> 00:32:58.740
more like you just at one point you look around

00:32:58.740 --> 00:33:01.019
and you realize that you're actually part of

00:33:01.019 --> 00:33:04.079
something. You're not just sitting back passively

00:33:04.079 --> 00:33:09.440
enjoying this thing and consuming a product.

00:33:11.680 --> 00:33:13.920
There's no product. There's no consumer. It's

00:33:13.920 --> 00:33:16.059
just an experience that everybody's having. And

00:33:16.059 --> 00:33:19.970
it's really... Cool. And the thing that I want

00:33:19.970 --> 00:33:24.769
to happen the most is something like that. If

00:33:24.769 --> 00:33:28.329
that can happen, then it's a good night. And

00:33:28.329 --> 00:33:30.569
most nights are like that. Yeah. Most nights

00:33:30.569 --> 00:33:34.970
are like that. There are times when it feels

00:33:34.970 --> 00:33:39.309
very stilted, like the person isn't really quite

00:33:39.309 --> 00:33:44.500
comfortable enough. With the scene, with playing

00:33:44.500 --> 00:33:46.779
in such a small room or playing that close to

00:33:46.779 --> 00:33:48.839
somebody sitting practically in your lap while

00:33:48.839 --> 00:33:51.759
you're playing. But you have to get over it.

00:33:51.900 --> 00:33:55.220
Yeah, yeah. I think what you're talking about

00:33:55.220 --> 00:33:57.759
is exactly what I love about stand -up comedy.

00:33:58.220 --> 00:34:02.579
Because it requires... One thing we've talked

00:34:02.579 --> 00:34:06.000
about on this show is a band can have a good

00:34:06.000 --> 00:34:09.829
show with or without the audiences. participate

00:34:09.829 --> 00:34:13.829
like they feel good among each other there that

00:34:13.829 --> 00:34:17.070
was a great show i had so much fun playing a

00:34:17.070 --> 00:34:19.429
stand -up even a solo artist can have a good

00:34:19.429 --> 00:34:23.969
show without the audience like confirming it

00:34:23.969 --> 00:34:27.829
or reaffirming it or whatever or feel like they

00:34:27.829 --> 00:34:30.030
did right they can have that feeling of satisfaction

00:34:30.030 --> 00:34:36.110
a stand -up com a stand -up comedian cannot it

00:34:36.110 --> 00:34:40.429
requires the audience to engage It requires that

00:34:40.429 --> 00:34:44.690
give and that take that audience energy, like

00:34:44.690 --> 00:34:46.889
reciprocal energy between the audience and the

00:34:46.889 --> 00:34:51.150
comedian is like, it has to happen. Or you're

00:34:51.150 --> 00:34:55.090
literally just dying. It's like the worst experience

00:34:55.090 --> 00:34:57.750
for everybody in the room, right? Like the audience

00:34:57.750 --> 00:35:00.250
is miserable. The comedians, if everybody's just

00:35:00.250 --> 00:35:03.170
sitting there. Oh yeah. Even if they're like

00:35:03.170 --> 00:35:05.889
booing or heckling you, that's better than silence.

00:35:08.489 --> 00:35:10.550
But what you're talking about, and it's why I

00:35:10.550 --> 00:35:13.769
love club shows and smaller venues. I don't like

00:35:13.769 --> 00:35:15.889
going to arenas. There's a couple of bands I'll

00:35:15.889 --> 00:35:19.170
go see. I'll go see Weird Al in an arena. First

00:35:19.170 --> 00:35:23.150
of all, the show fits it. It's like an extravaganza,

00:35:23.170 --> 00:35:27.050
right? But it's also, that's the only place you're

00:35:27.050 --> 00:35:28.909
going to see Weird Al. But most of the time,

00:35:28.969 --> 00:35:33.630
I'd rather just watch a live concert film on

00:35:33.630 --> 00:35:37.940
my really good sound system with lights. And

00:35:37.940 --> 00:35:39.619
you can see all the different angles. Yeah, if

00:35:39.619 --> 00:35:41.280
it's an arena show, because half the time you're

00:35:41.280 --> 00:35:44.159
just watching the screen anyway. And I'm not

00:35:44.159 --> 00:35:46.619
saying I wouldn't go to those shows. They're

00:35:46.619 --> 00:35:49.380
just not that important to me. And the experience,

00:35:49.639 --> 00:35:52.119
if I have a handful of friends over at my house

00:35:52.119 --> 00:35:55.099
and watch it like an event, it's not much different

00:35:55.099 --> 00:35:59.920
than going and watching the giant screen from

00:35:59.920 --> 00:36:01.139
the nosebleeds, because that's all I'm going

00:36:01.139 --> 00:36:03.719
to afford anyway. But what you're talking about

00:36:03.719 --> 00:36:08.480
there is a spectacle. Sure. Sure. The last big

00:36:08.480 --> 00:36:11.900
show I went to that I can recall was at the Civic

00:36:11.900 --> 00:36:15.420
Center, and this was probably in the early, late

00:36:15.420 --> 00:36:20.920
80s, early 90s. Lyle Lovett, Trio, back before

00:36:20.920 --> 00:36:23.579
he had his large band, he was traveling. He opened

00:36:23.579 --> 00:36:27.179
for Reba McEntire. Oh, hell yeah. And she came

00:36:27.179 --> 00:36:30.340
out, and she had a different costume every two

00:36:30.340 --> 00:36:33.940
or three songs. That was, she put on a show,

00:36:34.079 --> 00:36:37.920
brother. Wow. Wow. And you can tell like some

00:36:37.920 --> 00:36:40.739
artists get so big so fast that they can't, they

00:36:40.739 --> 00:36:43.760
don't grow into those venues. Yeah. So they just

00:36:43.760 --> 00:36:46.119
go up there and they play like a club show in

00:36:46.119 --> 00:36:49.159
front of 20 ,000 people and it's, there's this

00:36:49.159 --> 00:36:52.139
weird disconnect. But the real concept, like

00:36:52.139 --> 00:36:54.900
what I, I guess what I'm saying though is being

00:36:54.900 --> 00:36:59.039
in those arenas is not much different to me than

00:36:59.039 --> 00:37:01.500
just like watching a really good live film. Whereas

00:37:01.500 --> 00:37:03.800
like going to a club show and where the energy,

00:37:03.940 --> 00:37:07.329
like. My favorite band is the Drive -By Truckers.

00:37:07.369 --> 00:37:11.389
I've seen them like countless times over the

00:37:11.389 --> 00:37:15.630
last 21 years. And their shows are completely,

00:37:15.750 --> 00:37:18.289
everybody sings every word along to every song.

00:37:18.929 --> 00:37:22.170
They're feeding off the energy of the crowd.

00:37:23.170 --> 00:37:25.530
Rarely do they play places with a barricade.

00:37:25.530 --> 00:37:27.809
And if they're allowed to get the barricade removed,

00:37:28.070 --> 00:37:32.510
they do. They just don't. I'll be seeing them

00:37:32.510 --> 00:37:35.179
at the 40 watt. play four nights next week up

00:37:35.179 --> 00:37:37.500
in Athens. There's no barricade. You're just

00:37:37.500 --> 00:37:40.440
on the stage if you're up front. They're like,

00:37:40.539 --> 00:37:42.360
don't put your beer on the stage kind of thing.

00:37:42.960 --> 00:37:45.960
I guess my point is what you're talking about

00:37:45.960 --> 00:37:49.280
is exactly what I love about live music. Once

00:37:49.280 --> 00:37:54.559
it gets to be a certain size and you have that

00:37:54.559 --> 00:37:56.360
distance that you were talking about between

00:37:56.360 --> 00:37:59.199
the artist and the crowd, you might as well just

00:37:59.199 --> 00:38:03.860
be watching something happen. And the only way

00:38:03.860 --> 00:38:07.059
to make it organic is to invite some friends

00:38:07.059 --> 00:38:09.559
with you or invite some friends over and watch

00:38:09.559 --> 00:38:13.960
the thing on whatever. But I just don't see those

00:38:13.960 --> 00:38:16.440
two things as much different. Whereas going to

00:38:16.440 --> 00:38:18.780
a club or going to see a show at an intimate

00:38:18.780 --> 00:38:22.280
venue like the Blue Tavern is a very different

00:38:22.280 --> 00:38:27.500
experience that is an exchange of energy, requires

00:38:27.500 --> 00:38:31.760
the audience to want to be there too, I think.

00:38:32.230 --> 00:38:34.449
Oh, yeah. If you don't want to be there, there

00:38:34.449 --> 00:38:38.909
have been. I mean, granted, there are times when

00:38:38.909 --> 00:38:43.550
people do talk so loudly, and they're obviously

00:38:43.550 --> 00:38:46.630
not there for the music, and I'll invite them

00:38:46.630 --> 00:38:48.690
to go out to the courtyard and continue their

00:38:48.690 --> 00:38:52.630
conversation outside. Especially if it's nice

00:38:52.630 --> 00:38:55.789
out. Yeah, if it's rainy, I'm like, get out of

00:38:55.789 --> 00:39:02.110
here. Go to the Leon Pub. But, yeah. One of my

00:39:02.110 --> 00:39:04.309
favorite things is when people come in and they

00:39:04.309 --> 00:39:07.630
just think they're going to have a beer or they're

00:39:07.630 --> 00:39:10.110
going to check the place out because it looks

00:39:10.110 --> 00:39:12.989
like a dive and they're curious. And then they

00:39:12.989 --> 00:39:14.989
end up staying for the rest of the night going,

00:39:15.110 --> 00:39:19.889
oh, my God, I had no idea. And they're just like,

00:39:19.909 --> 00:39:24.409
and they've converted to fandom for whoever was

00:39:24.409 --> 00:39:28.010
playing that night. And you might be unlocking

00:39:28.010 --> 00:39:31.929
like. Either a new love or a newfound love of

00:39:31.929 --> 00:39:34.130
live music again, too. Because I think... That's

00:39:34.130 --> 00:39:36.269
what I'd like. Especially after the pandemic,

00:39:36.389 --> 00:39:40.150
so many people just got out of the habit of living,

00:39:40.369 --> 00:39:43.070
going out and doing stuff. Yeah, doing things

00:39:43.070 --> 00:39:47.210
together. Myself included. That I think having

00:39:47.210 --> 00:39:50.090
a night like what you're talking about can reignite...

00:39:50.090 --> 00:39:52.550
Oh, this is what life used to be like. This is

00:39:52.550 --> 00:39:55.090
what it used to be like back before. And it's

00:39:55.090 --> 00:39:57.110
not... I can't blame everything on the pandemic.

00:39:57.530 --> 00:40:01.590
There was a famous book called Bowling Alone.

00:40:02.210 --> 00:40:05.489
It's about people losing connection with each

00:40:05.489 --> 00:40:08.030
other, not doing things together. I used to go

00:40:08.030 --> 00:40:11.789
bowling alone. Not going to clubs or bowling

00:40:11.789 --> 00:40:15.530
in front of the TV using Wii or whatever it is.

00:40:16.010 --> 00:40:20.730
Just the loss of community that came with the

00:40:20.730 --> 00:40:26.000
breakdown of social networks. For some people,

00:40:26.000 --> 00:40:28.219
that's the church. Sometimes it's like the Elks

00:40:28.219 --> 00:40:31.039
Club or the Bowling League or whatever. I mean,

00:40:31.119 --> 00:40:32.760
you're talking about third spaces. Third spaces,

00:40:33.039 --> 00:40:36.280
yeah. And I think we have so few of them. And

00:40:36.280 --> 00:40:38.840
the Blue Tavern has succeeded in being like this

00:40:38.840 --> 00:40:42.619
really great safe haven. And not only that, but

00:40:42.619 --> 00:40:44.860
I think the elephant in the room that we haven't

00:40:44.860 --> 00:40:48.159
really addressed is like it opens in October

00:40:48.159 --> 00:40:52.260
of 2016. right before the election and and the

00:40:52.260 --> 00:40:54.260
country has gotten like more and more and more

00:40:54.260 --> 00:40:57.239
divided and not only that but people have felt

00:40:57.239 --> 00:41:00.760
like less and less safe around people that advocate

00:41:00.760 --> 00:41:04.019
for certain policies and things like what are

00:41:04.019 --> 00:41:08.000
some of the things that you've done to keep the

00:41:08.000 --> 00:41:11.519
blue tavern i don't want to say just like a hate

00:41:11.519 --> 00:41:15.059
free space that's i think as far as i'm like

00:41:16.039 --> 00:41:20.199
speaking for you. If you want to talk about more

00:41:20.199 --> 00:41:25.079
about what you've put behind. During the shutdown,

00:41:25.340 --> 00:41:30.039
I embroidered a little needlepoint thing that

00:41:30.039 --> 00:41:33.300
says, be nice or fuck off. And I put it on the

00:41:33.300 --> 00:41:37.159
wall and that pretty much says it all for me.

00:41:37.800 --> 00:41:41.260
If you are making somebody uncomfortable, if

00:41:41.260 --> 00:41:43.199
they have asked you to stop and you won't, you're

00:41:43.199 --> 00:41:46.460
out of here. Yeah. If you can't deal with the

00:41:46.460 --> 00:41:48.280
fact that there's different kinds of people in

00:41:48.280 --> 00:41:52.960
here from what you look like, then you don't

00:41:52.960 --> 00:41:55.059
need to be in here. What about people wearing

00:41:55.059 --> 00:42:00.420
overtly political or like hateful? We have one

00:42:00.420 --> 00:42:02.360
guy who comes in, he always has this big Trump

00:42:02.360 --> 00:42:05.599
sticker on his music, on his instrument case.

00:42:06.300 --> 00:42:10.139
And the way that his fellow musicians have dealt

00:42:10.139 --> 00:42:13.480
with that is that they get more and bigger. Pride

00:42:13.480 --> 00:42:15.980
flags to stick on their cases. So I was like,

00:42:16.099 --> 00:42:17.780
okay, you can wear your Trump sticker. I can

00:42:17.780 --> 00:42:21.000
wear my pride flag. I got a freak flag right

00:42:21.000 --> 00:42:24.340
there in the window. I'm a walking freak flag.

00:42:25.480 --> 00:42:29.000
My version of the freak flag is the state of

00:42:29.000 --> 00:42:32.239
Florida with the, I don't know who made this,

00:42:32.300 --> 00:42:35.519
but I saw it online and I was like, I have to

00:42:35.519 --> 00:42:39.440
buy this. And it's the pride flag with the state

00:42:39.440 --> 00:42:44.829
of Florida. seal in front of it and we're what

00:42:44.829 --> 00:42:48.630
three blocks from the governor's mansion something

00:42:48.630 --> 00:42:53.329
like that yeah isabel ruano one of our bartenders

00:42:53.329 --> 00:42:57.230
she brought in a flag and stuck it up on the

00:42:57.230 --> 00:43:01.989
wall and it hate has no place here love is love

00:43:01.989 --> 00:43:05.150
science is real i can't remember what it is it's

00:43:05.150 --> 00:43:06.730
one of those things that just kind of it's like

00:43:06.730 --> 00:43:10.670
a man it's like a mini manifesto of what we believe

00:43:10.670 --> 00:43:15.070
in because we're reasonable nice people and i've

00:43:15.070 --> 00:43:16.610
seen every once in a while i'll see somebody

00:43:16.610 --> 00:43:19.969
looking up at it going like they're having to

00:43:19.969 --> 00:43:22.110
think about that like whether or not they want

00:43:22.110 --> 00:43:25.010
to participate in that social contract but the

00:43:25.010 --> 00:43:27.889
thing is they don't feel unsafe there they don't

00:43:27.889 --> 00:43:31.289
feel like they're going to be beset by hordes

00:43:31.289 --> 00:43:34.900
of angry lesbians or something it's just Yeah,

00:43:35.019 --> 00:43:37.139
that's what we believe here. And if you don't

00:43:37.139 --> 00:43:39.360
like it, you can leave. I think some people pay

00:43:39.360 --> 00:43:41.860
for that, by the way. Some people pay for that.

00:43:42.079 --> 00:43:47.400
Yeah, yeah. Paid agitators. Yeah. So what are

00:43:47.400 --> 00:43:49.900
some of the things that you have had? You talked

00:43:49.900 --> 00:43:54.360
about the line shifting for crowds and their

00:43:54.360 --> 00:43:57.920
volume level over the years. What are some of

00:43:57.920 --> 00:44:01.559
the other things that have changed for you over

00:44:01.559 --> 00:44:05.369
the nine years? Almost 10 years now that the

00:44:05.369 --> 00:44:07.969
Blue Tavern has been open. What are some of the

00:44:07.969 --> 00:44:11.449
things that are very different now than they

00:44:11.449 --> 00:44:15.769
were when you started? Jeez. We have a full kitchen

00:44:15.769 --> 00:44:18.190
now. Yeah, we used to have to cook behind the

00:44:18.190 --> 00:44:21.670
bar. I remember that. Yeah. And when we closed,

00:44:21.889 --> 00:44:24.909
when the bartender closed after you were done

00:44:24.909 --> 00:44:27.369
doing the dishes, then you had to clean the dishes.

00:44:28.639 --> 00:44:31.239
The glassware. Then you had to clean all the...

00:44:31.239 --> 00:44:35.039
Yeah, and gumbo, man. That's some residue there,

00:44:35.219 --> 00:44:39.719
man. Okay, so things that are wildly different

00:44:39.719 --> 00:44:42.579
now. I'm more thinking about things that you've

00:44:42.579 --> 00:44:45.539
had to adjust to in the world over the years,

00:44:45.539 --> 00:44:49.139
too. I'm sure there have been times where you've

00:44:49.139 --> 00:44:51.619
had to... I don't adjust. I don't adjust. The

00:44:51.619 --> 00:44:55.179
world adjusts to me. But I think that's part

00:44:55.179 --> 00:44:57.590
of why you've been successful. To be fair, I

00:44:57.590 --> 00:45:02.070
think being this consistent, hold steady throughout

00:45:02.070 --> 00:45:07.489
the last decade has been truly part of your success.

00:45:08.070 --> 00:45:10.429
We haven't really changed very much. I know that

00:45:10.429 --> 00:45:13.130
we have the same sound system as we had when

00:45:13.130 --> 00:45:17.989
we opened. The one thing that I did change, and

00:45:17.989 --> 00:45:23.050
it's not always, but when Maggie owned it, she

00:45:23.050 --> 00:45:28.139
said absolutely no, ever. Never any canned music.

00:45:29.000 --> 00:45:32.719
And no TVs. And I will never, ever have a TV

00:45:32.719 --> 00:45:36.820
in me. Actually, we hooked up a TV during the

00:45:36.820 --> 00:45:40.340
last election, courtesy of Kim McShane. She brought

00:45:40.340 --> 00:45:43.340
in a TV and hooked it up to her computer, and

00:45:43.340 --> 00:45:46.460
we watched the results come in. And then she

00:45:46.460 --> 00:45:48.519
got the hell out of there. And she got the hell

00:45:48.519 --> 00:45:50.559
out of there, yeah. I was like, I want to get

00:45:50.559 --> 00:45:54.519
the hell out of here, too. Yeah, but so I'll

00:45:54.519 --> 00:45:58.760
have canned music. I have an Apple Tunes subscription.

00:45:59.460 --> 00:46:02.500
I won't lie. It's great because there's not any

00:46:02.500 --> 00:46:04.880
ads. I don't have to listen to crap that I don't

00:46:04.880 --> 00:46:07.920
want to listen to. And I can make my own playlist

00:46:07.920 --> 00:46:10.860
for whatever. And you can listen to this podcast.

00:46:11.000 --> 00:46:14.460
I can listen to this podcast. And Hal Padgett

00:46:14.460 --> 00:46:18.940
makes a birthday playlist every month for the

00:46:18.940 --> 00:46:21.719
last Thursday of the month. We have a bed. a

00:46:21.719 --> 00:46:24.619
happy birthday party for anybody who had a birthday

00:46:24.619 --> 00:46:27.460
that month. And you usually have somebody who

00:46:27.460 --> 00:46:29.719
was born that month play as well, right? Yes.

00:46:30.039 --> 00:46:33.260
Greg Brown played this past month. And I was

00:46:33.260 --> 00:46:35.380
sick, or else I would have played the playlist

00:46:35.380 --> 00:46:38.460
that Hal Padgett made for me, which was like

00:46:38.460 --> 00:46:42.079
wall -to -wall Lucinda Williams. I'd say one

00:46:42.079 --> 00:46:45.159
of the main things that, or one of the most recent

00:46:45.159 --> 00:46:48.119
things that has happened in the bar that I've

00:46:48.119 --> 00:46:50.420
been to I've been wanting to happen for a long

00:46:50.420 --> 00:46:53.099
time, and it just, the planets lined up again.

00:46:53.659 --> 00:46:57.539
Jelani Marks of the Tallahassee Vinyl Club brought

00:46:57.539 --> 00:47:01.679
the club over, and they had a record party. I

00:47:01.679 --> 00:47:03.940
saw that. I really wanted to be there. The place

00:47:03.940 --> 00:47:06.679
was packed, and Maggie lives right down the street.

00:47:06.739 --> 00:47:08.500
She lives like a block and a half from the bar,

00:47:08.619 --> 00:47:12.119
and she walked up to see what was going on. We'd

00:47:12.119 --> 00:47:15.750
been taking turns checking on the water. because

00:47:15.750 --> 00:47:18.090
of the freeze. And so she came up to check the

00:47:18.090 --> 00:47:20.949
faucets and she walked in and there was this

00:47:20.949 --> 00:47:22.750
like, she said, I didn't recognize the place.

00:47:22.849 --> 00:47:25.949
It was great. And that's happening every month.

00:47:25.949 --> 00:47:29.030
On a happy hour. No, it's going to happen until

00:47:29.030 --> 00:47:32.989
I can figure out something more regular. The

00:47:32.989 --> 00:47:35.489
fifth Saturday, whenever there's a fifth Saturday.

00:47:35.489 --> 00:47:38.190
Whenever there's a fifth Saturday. They own that

00:47:38.190 --> 00:47:43.530
Saturday. Cool, cool. Yeah. What are some of

00:47:43.530 --> 00:47:46.340
the challenges? that you're dealing with in the

00:47:46.340 --> 00:47:49.800
last couple of years that, that what are some,

00:47:49.840 --> 00:47:51.900
like if somebody is out there trying to start

00:47:51.900 --> 00:47:55.099
their own live music space, what are some of

00:47:55.099 --> 00:47:57.119
the things that you do it? Yeah. There's that.

00:47:57.239 --> 00:48:00.079
But if you can't talk them out of it, that's

00:48:00.079 --> 00:48:03.000
the thing is I think if you can do something

00:48:03.000 --> 00:48:06.320
else, then you probably should. But if you can't,

00:48:06.320 --> 00:48:11.219
yeah. What would you advise to them? And this

00:48:11.219 --> 00:48:15.070
is funny because when I, and this is like, My

00:48:15.070 --> 00:48:19.269
own little personal story. But when I went to

00:48:19.269 --> 00:48:22.949
work for the, for St. Louis, I had decided I

00:48:22.949 --> 00:48:24.550
was going to stay home and get a regular job

00:48:24.550 --> 00:48:29.929
for a while. And at almost 50 years old, that's

00:48:29.929 --> 00:48:31.630
a hard thing to do if you've been out of the

00:48:31.630 --> 00:48:34.730
job market for a while. And I have all these

00:48:34.730 --> 00:48:37.769
different skills and I could not put them to

00:48:37.769 --> 00:48:40.929
use anywhere. The market was just not there.

00:48:42.510 --> 00:48:47.130
And so when I found that, then instantly that's

00:48:47.130 --> 00:48:51.889
how it happened. The tavern opportunity opened

00:48:51.889 --> 00:48:56.550
up. But I would say if you wanted to do this,

00:48:56.650 --> 00:48:59.769
one thing that I did that I'm really glad that

00:48:59.769 --> 00:49:03.369
I did, I called the people who I knew that had

00:49:03.369 --> 00:49:06.429
done something remotely, anything remotely like

00:49:06.429 --> 00:49:10.860
this, and I got advice. Get advice from somebody

00:49:10.860 --> 00:49:12.440
who's been there. It's not always going to apply

00:49:12.440 --> 00:49:15.099
because they might have started their business

00:49:15.099 --> 00:49:17.340
back when you could do things that you can't

00:49:17.340 --> 00:49:19.440
do now. Or they might have started the business

00:49:19.440 --> 00:49:22.260
when you couldn't do things that you can do now.

00:49:23.159 --> 00:49:28.159
Yeah, yeah. Get some real world talk from people

00:49:28.159 --> 00:49:31.139
who've been there. And another thing that I think

00:49:31.139 --> 00:49:35.269
has really helped me is... keeping in contact

00:49:35.269 --> 00:49:37.849
and keeping connections with the people that

00:49:37.849 --> 00:49:42.190
I know in the music community. I know I've always

00:49:42.190 --> 00:49:44.769
known a lot of musicians, but since doing this,

00:49:44.829 --> 00:49:47.150
I feel like I know more musicians and I know

00:49:47.150 --> 00:49:51.670
them better. And so communicating with them and

00:49:51.670 --> 00:49:57.610
giving them the respect that they require, not

00:49:57.610 --> 00:49:59.730
talking to them like they're just a commodity.

00:50:00.819 --> 00:50:02.840
you're going to provide something and I'm going

00:50:02.840 --> 00:50:06.519
to give you this. And it's more of a, you really

00:50:06.519 --> 00:50:09.179
have to establish trust. And that was what I

00:50:09.179 --> 00:50:11.360
was going to say is it's like more than just

00:50:11.360 --> 00:50:14.219
knowing them. Like you have to, I think one thing

00:50:14.219 --> 00:50:15.840
that's really important is you always kept people

00:50:15.840 --> 00:50:19.460
around you that you can trust. Yeah. Yeah. And

00:50:19.460 --> 00:50:22.619
I've tried to be trustworthy. I try to let people

00:50:22.619 --> 00:50:25.940
know that I'm not going to bullshit them. I'm

00:50:25.940 --> 00:50:27.519
not going to promise you something that I can't

00:50:27.519 --> 00:50:33.960
deliver. Right. And. And I realized, as a musician,

00:50:34.079 --> 00:50:36.980
you can go someplace else and make way more money,

00:50:37.099 --> 00:50:41.360
but you're not going to get treated better. You

00:50:41.360 --> 00:50:44.980
might get treated as well, but I like the fact

00:50:44.980 --> 00:50:48.179
that we have our own sound system. I know how

00:50:48.179 --> 00:50:50.500
to run it. Several other people know how to run

00:50:50.500 --> 00:50:54.019
it that I trust. And as a musician coming into

00:50:54.019 --> 00:50:58.610
a place, having to schlep all that... and set

00:50:58.610 --> 00:51:01.710
it up yourself, that gets real, real old. And

00:51:01.710 --> 00:51:04.210
there are a lot of places in town that expect

00:51:04.210 --> 00:51:07.369
you to do that. It's really absurd to me. I'm

00:51:07.369 --> 00:51:09.389
like... Yeah, just invest in a sound system.

00:51:09.469 --> 00:51:11.750
I have my own sound system just for house shows

00:51:11.750 --> 00:51:18.010
and trivia. It's not even that big of an investment

00:51:18.010 --> 00:51:21.570
to get something for the kinds of shows that

00:51:21.570 --> 00:51:24.349
a lot of these places are having anyway. Yeah.

00:51:25.289 --> 00:51:29.050
I do think the upside, and I was actually talking

00:51:29.050 --> 00:51:32.389
to Taylor Hollingsworth about this, of somebody

00:51:32.389 --> 00:51:34.510
like him having, he has a little touring rig

00:51:34.510 --> 00:51:38.510
that he can just set up anywhere. He always knows

00:51:38.510 --> 00:51:40.969
how to make it sound the way he wants it to sound.

00:51:41.309 --> 00:51:45.329
And so I think that that's the upside for musicians

00:51:45.329 --> 00:51:49.329
and that's how venues like can justify it. But

00:51:49.329 --> 00:51:52.579
I think it's bullshit. I think like. Most of

00:51:52.579 --> 00:51:55.380
the time, a musician knows how to make their

00:51:55.380 --> 00:51:57.719
stuff sound the way they want it to sound anywhere

00:51:57.719 --> 00:52:02.139
in any system. Yeah. And having a sound system

00:52:02.139 --> 00:52:04.699
with somebody who knows it, a sound person, is

00:52:04.699 --> 00:52:08.920
so much better than having that. Because here's

00:52:08.920 --> 00:52:11.559
a story about the Dolce Trio, and I won't name

00:52:11.559 --> 00:52:14.719
the venue, but I went up to a venue with them

00:52:14.719 --> 00:52:16.360
where they had to bring their own sound system,

00:52:16.539 --> 00:52:20.179
and they're trying to do their own sound check.

00:52:21.179 --> 00:52:23.380
They can't be in two places. They can't be on

00:52:23.380 --> 00:52:26.059
the stage and in the audience at the same time.

00:52:26.159 --> 00:52:28.699
In order for them to have a full sound check

00:52:28.699 --> 00:52:30.460
where everybody was playing at the same time,

00:52:30.519 --> 00:52:35.039
they needed somebody else to just hear it. Just

00:52:35.039 --> 00:52:38.340
little things like that I think are so important.

00:52:38.760 --> 00:52:40.840
And it's not always possible to have somebody

00:52:40.840 --> 00:52:44.880
free to do that. Hopefully you have a friend

00:52:44.880 --> 00:52:47.659
who will be there to help you with that. You

00:52:47.659 --> 00:52:51.300
mean as a band? As a band. As a musician. It's

00:52:51.300 --> 00:52:56.480
good to have an ally. And it's, I think some

00:52:56.480 --> 00:53:00.039
people will think about all of the things that

00:53:00.039 --> 00:53:05.019
a creative person who is successful might do

00:53:05.019 --> 00:53:07.019
that is like a little bit different than the

00:53:07.019 --> 00:53:09.179
average person. Like they might have a personal

00:53:09.179 --> 00:53:14.039
chef or they might have some super odd things

00:53:14.039 --> 00:53:17.559
on their tour rider. Yeah. And I'm not talking

00:53:17.559 --> 00:53:19.460
about green M &Ms because that was like a test

00:53:19.460 --> 00:53:21.820
for making sure they read it for pyrotechnics

00:53:21.820 --> 00:53:25.599
because it was like a safety thing. But I am

00:53:25.599 --> 00:53:30.679
talking about a particular kind of food or just

00:53:30.679 --> 00:53:33.599
being particular about something like that. As

00:53:33.599 --> 00:53:37.500
a creative person, the more of those things that

00:53:37.500 --> 00:53:41.199
you don't have to worry about that day allows

00:53:41.199 --> 00:53:45.260
so much more energy to go into. the performance

00:53:45.260 --> 00:53:48.539
or the writing or the recording or whatever.

00:53:48.699 --> 00:53:53.420
So having, I think somebody that's there to take

00:53:53.420 --> 00:53:55.860
care of the artist and like really make sure

00:53:55.860 --> 00:53:59.539
that they are like in, they have everything they

00:53:59.539 --> 00:54:01.400
need and that they're in a good spot. They're

00:54:01.400 --> 00:54:03.780
fed. Like, I know you always feed your artists.

00:54:03.980 --> 00:54:07.800
Well, we don't always, I try to, I was more thinking

00:54:07.800 --> 00:54:10.500
about touring musicians, but yeah, I agree. I

00:54:10.500 --> 00:54:14.550
think there should be a concierge role. For people

00:54:14.550 --> 00:54:17.809
who... Because they don't need to have to worry

00:54:17.809 --> 00:54:19.329
about all that. To make sure that they're comfortable.

00:54:19.449 --> 00:54:22.829
They've been traveling all day. And I think the

00:54:22.829 --> 00:54:26.469
particulars of food and stuff, it's hard to eat

00:54:26.469 --> 00:54:29.510
on the road and eat well on the road. So I just

00:54:29.510 --> 00:54:34.150
think what you do makes for a better show, too.

00:54:34.369 --> 00:54:37.909
Because it allows... Treating an artist well

00:54:37.909 --> 00:54:39.869
allows them to not have to worry about any of

00:54:39.869 --> 00:54:42.539
that stuff. Yeah. Especially the second time,

00:54:42.579 --> 00:54:45.400
because the first time they don't know. But the

00:54:45.400 --> 00:54:47.360
second time they're like, oh no, Carrie's got

00:54:47.360 --> 00:54:50.119
me. Everything's going to be fine. I can just

00:54:50.119 --> 00:54:53.460
focus on putting on a good show. Yeah, and that

00:54:53.460 --> 00:54:59.000
frees your energy up in a big way, what you're

00:54:59.000 --> 00:55:02.780
saying. Yeah, and I believe that my experience

00:55:02.780 --> 00:55:06.219
as a musician, as a touring musician, really

00:55:06.219 --> 00:55:09.360
helped me figure out how people want to be treated.

00:55:10.039 --> 00:55:12.800
Because if I hadn't had that experience, I don't

00:55:12.800 --> 00:55:15.539
know, I might be clueless about this. I might

00:55:15.539 --> 00:55:18.099
be just learning it. Now I feel like we skipped

00:55:18.099 --> 00:55:20.420
over some stuff. Let's talk about when you were

00:55:20.420 --> 00:55:23.739
a touring musician. Do we have to? No, we don't

00:55:23.739 --> 00:55:25.219
have to talk about anything you don't want to

00:55:25.219 --> 00:55:27.400
talk about. Let me tell you about the other day

00:55:27.400 --> 00:55:32.510
when my eye blew up. Oh, yeah. Go for it. Did

00:55:32.510 --> 00:55:34.789
you ever see Election with Matthew Broderick?

00:55:34.869 --> 00:55:37.449
Yeah, I did. Remember when he gets stung by a

00:55:37.449 --> 00:55:40.150
bee or a wasp on his eye? That's what my eye

00:55:40.150 --> 00:55:42.869
looked like. Oh my goodness. It was horrible.

00:55:43.690 --> 00:55:45.710
Okay, now I just need to get that out of my system.

00:55:45.809 --> 00:55:48.670
I'm fine now. I'm just still aware of it because

00:55:48.670 --> 00:55:51.670
my eye feels weird. Also, what a great callback.

00:55:51.710 --> 00:55:55.309
That movie rules. I love that movie. I just saw

00:55:55.309 --> 00:55:58.329
it a second time within the last five years and

00:55:58.329 --> 00:56:01.820
it's still just... It's so funny. It's so funny.

00:56:02.400 --> 00:56:05.280
I feel like it's one of those movies that's gotten

00:56:05.280 --> 00:56:08.760
better, too. It's more apropos. It makes more

00:56:08.760 --> 00:56:11.880
sense. It's funnier than it ever was. It hits

00:56:11.880 --> 00:56:16.260
hard. Yeah, it really does. You toured as a musician.

00:56:16.800 --> 00:56:20.599
Yeah, I did some traveling. I've done some traveling.

00:56:20.840 --> 00:56:22.900
Was that with Belmont Jones? Yeah, I did some

00:56:22.900 --> 00:56:26.199
solo. I did some with the band The Mayhaws. Okay.

00:56:26.340 --> 00:56:29.869
Yeah. When was that band? Oh, let's see. We formed

00:56:29.869 --> 00:56:34.730
up in 06 or, yeah. I remember the name, but I

00:56:34.730 --> 00:56:37.369
don't think, I can't, I'm trying to picture it.

00:56:37.449 --> 00:56:39.789
You remember Sharla June of Beggs and Aiken?

00:56:39.969 --> 00:56:44.570
So she started writing, she went to Europe, she

00:56:44.570 --> 00:56:47.030
came back, started writing a bunch of stuff and

00:56:47.030 --> 00:56:50.130
put together this little band called the Mayhaws.

00:56:50.289 --> 00:56:55.449
And I was her bass player. And we found some

00:56:55.449 --> 00:56:58.760
harmony singing. together. We had a blast doing

00:56:58.760 --> 00:57:02.579
that. We had Deb Berlinger on the drums, Dave

00:57:02.579 --> 00:57:06.239
Leperati on mandolin, and we did some of his

00:57:06.239 --> 00:57:09.320
songs too. We had some four -part harmonies sometimes.

00:57:10.000 --> 00:57:13.440
Adam Straubinger played with us on fiddle. Yeah,

00:57:13.480 --> 00:57:15.679
we had a really tight little band. We played

00:57:15.679 --> 00:57:19.280
at Bird's a bunch. Originals? We played mostly

00:57:19.280 --> 00:57:23.340
originals. We played, I don't know, I'd say maybe

00:57:23.340 --> 00:57:27.650
two -thirds originals. We did some really old

00:57:27.650 --> 00:57:31.409
rockabilly stuff. We played some Iggy Pop. We

00:57:31.409 --> 00:57:35.150
played Patsy Cline. Yeah, we were all over the

00:57:35.150 --> 00:57:38.610
map. But yeah, we went all the way up to Vermont

00:57:38.610 --> 00:57:43.389
a couple times. We did a tour. I think we did

00:57:43.389 --> 00:57:46.710
three tours. What were some of the biggest challenges

00:57:46.710 --> 00:57:49.170
that you faced when you were doing that? Oh,

00:57:49.269 --> 00:57:54.760
we had a diesel step van. which is now owned

00:57:54.760 --> 00:57:58.139
by Rick Ott. Oh, okay. Yeah, he bought it from

00:57:58.139 --> 00:58:02.360
me. I bought it from Anna Alvarez, who just sold

00:58:02.360 --> 00:58:05.380
the Healing Center. It was a challenge to drive.

00:58:05.820 --> 00:58:10.820
That was our band bus, and driving hairpin turns

00:58:10.820 --> 00:58:13.860
up in the Smoky Mountains. Yeah, that sounds

00:58:13.860 --> 00:58:19.840
scary. It was scary. Yeah. Yeah. We had some

00:58:19.840 --> 00:58:23.539
challenges, just like every band. spending a

00:58:23.539 --> 00:58:26.039
lot of time together and getting tired of each

00:58:26.039 --> 00:58:28.800
other. Yeah, fair enough. And then deciding,

00:58:28.980 --> 00:58:30.860
hey, this is really fun. What else are we going

00:58:30.860 --> 00:58:33.119
to do with our lives? Well, that's one aspect

00:58:33.119 --> 00:58:36.840
I think that I've heard the drive -by truckers

00:58:36.840 --> 00:58:38.579
talk about. Patterson Hood has talked about this

00:58:38.579 --> 00:58:41.480
before, where it's like you've got to like the

00:58:41.480 --> 00:58:43.300
people that you're on the road with. You've got

00:58:43.300 --> 00:58:46.619
to want to be around them 24 -7 for a while.

00:58:46.960 --> 00:58:48.599
Even when they irritate the shit out of you.

00:58:48.639 --> 00:58:52.420
Yeah. You have to love them. Yeah. Yeah. One

00:58:52.420 --> 00:58:56.380
thing I wanted to talk about both as I feel like

00:58:56.380 --> 00:58:58.199
maybe your perspective might be different depending

00:58:58.199 --> 00:59:01.760
on which hat you're wearing. Maybe not. But what

00:59:01.760 --> 00:59:05.039
do you think about the abundance of covers in

00:59:05.039 --> 00:59:09.699
music today? Because I think I think cover songs

00:59:09.699 --> 00:59:13.340
are fine in general. I think playing like an

00:59:13.340 --> 00:59:15.139
all and I'm just going to be like open about

00:59:15.139 --> 00:59:17.460
my opinions on this. I think like playing an

00:59:17.460 --> 00:59:20.610
all cover set is kind of lame. I think playing

00:59:20.610 --> 00:59:23.070
covers that you are going to hear at karaoke

00:59:23.070 --> 00:59:28.550
is lame. I think the covers can be done really

00:59:28.550 --> 00:59:30.909
well if it's like introducing you to maybe a

00:59:30.909 --> 00:59:32.690
song you haven't heard by an artist that you

00:59:32.690 --> 00:59:37.090
might already know. Or when you're doing like

00:59:37.090 --> 00:59:40.610
a really different cover of a song. So you're

00:59:40.610 --> 00:59:44.590
like making it your own. I really get tired of

00:59:44.590 --> 00:59:48.070
like bands just all playing the same 40 songs

00:59:48.070 --> 00:59:52.219
that are. on karaoke, though. I don't experience

00:59:52.219 --> 00:59:55.219
that at your venue. I've experienced it more

00:59:55.219 --> 00:59:58.260
at the part when a band has to fill four hours

00:59:58.260 --> 01:00:00.980
kind of thing. What are you going to do for four

01:00:00.980 --> 01:00:03.619
hours? Yeah, some people have enough original...

01:00:03.619 --> 01:00:06.039
They can pick more. They can also just pick better

01:00:06.039 --> 01:00:09.599
covers. They can pick better covers. You're talking

01:00:09.599 --> 01:00:12.400
to somebody who does a lot of covers in the form

01:00:12.400 --> 01:00:15.880
of old -time music, and those are all covers,

01:00:16.239 --> 01:00:20.929
unless you're playing... an old -time style piece

01:00:20.929 --> 01:00:24.809
that was written by somebody like Bronwyn Shillette.

01:00:25.570 --> 01:00:28.929
There are people, I've done a couple, I've written

01:00:28.929 --> 01:00:32.170
a couple of pieces that have been played at Contra

01:00:32.170 --> 01:00:36.730
Dance bands. It's just, it's really a matter

01:00:36.730 --> 01:00:39.909
of expectations. Yeah, I think that's true. I

01:00:39.909 --> 01:00:43.590
think when you're playing, and I'm also a blues

01:00:43.590 --> 01:00:46.230
musician, so I play a lot of Ma Rainey covers

01:00:46.230 --> 01:00:49.840
and Memphis Mini covers. Those are covers I try

01:00:49.840 --> 01:00:54.340
to make them my own. I'm not trying to be Ma

01:00:54.340 --> 01:00:57.219
Rainey because I will never, ever be Ma Rainey.

01:00:57.239 --> 01:01:00.340
That would be stupid. But what I do try to do

01:01:00.340 --> 01:01:04.780
is respect the material and respect the artist

01:01:04.780 --> 01:01:09.099
and especially, let me just say, respect the

01:01:09.099 --> 01:01:13.960
fact that a musician of color created something.

01:01:14.730 --> 01:01:18.230
And I'm using that thing that they created. And

01:01:18.230 --> 01:01:20.849
when that happens, I try to make sure everybody

01:01:20.849 --> 01:01:24.789
knows I did not write this. I didn't come up

01:01:24.789 --> 01:01:27.650
with this. And I need you to know who did. Yeah,

01:01:27.670 --> 01:01:29.929
yeah. I think that's a really important thing.

01:01:30.010 --> 01:01:32.750
I think if somebody plays a cover and it's instantly

01:01:32.750 --> 01:01:35.550
recognizable to everybody as a cover, great.

01:01:35.730 --> 01:01:38.849
If somebody's doing a cover of somebody else's

01:01:38.849 --> 01:01:41.929
song and they're passing it off as their own

01:01:41.929 --> 01:01:44.989
material. They need to be straight about that.

01:01:44.989 --> 01:01:49.090
Yeah, for sure. I think that's lame. One thing

01:01:49.090 --> 01:01:52.769
that you, no, it's super, I was going to use

01:01:52.769 --> 01:01:54.949
a way stronger word than that, but I just moved

01:01:54.949 --> 01:01:57.949
on. But yeah, you know, it's super, super lame.

01:01:58.610 --> 01:02:01.170
I think one thing that you brought to my attention

01:02:01.170 --> 01:02:04.469
that maybe unintentionally is that you're talking

01:02:04.469 --> 01:02:07.070
about a lot of, when you're talking about bluegrass

01:02:07.070 --> 01:02:09.769
and blues. You're talking about a lot of music

01:02:09.769 --> 01:02:12.929
that at a certain point just starts being considered

01:02:12.929 --> 01:02:16.530
like traditional. Yeah. They're traditional tunes.

01:02:16.889 --> 01:02:21.170
Yeah. And it made me realize, is that just, am

01:02:21.170 --> 01:02:23.210
I just getting old? Are we just getting old?

01:02:23.369 --> 01:02:26.809
And that's, so now all these songs that are from

01:02:26.809 --> 01:02:31.349
like the 70s and 80s are starting to slip into,

01:02:31.650 --> 01:02:36.010
we've never had traditional rock, but are we

01:02:36.010 --> 01:02:39.369
starting to? Are we starting to have these traditional

01:02:39.369 --> 01:02:44.789
modern classics? That's what it feels like. It

01:02:44.789 --> 01:02:50.690
could be. And when a rockabilly song gets played

01:02:50.690 --> 01:02:55.849
by Grateful Dead and Bob Dylan and then another

01:02:55.849 --> 01:02:58.469
band and then another band, it goes through all

01:02:58.469 --> 01:03:04.190
these iterations. And today, in 2026, that could

01:03:04.190 --> 01:03:06.670
be considered a traditional song. I don't know.

01:03:07.179 --> 01:03:09.559
I think Wagon Wheel is a really good example

01:03:09.559 --> 01:03:11.900
of this. Yeah, we're all tired of that fucking

01:03:11.900 --> 01:03:14.860
song. But that song started, that was an unfinished

01:03:14.860 --> 01:03:18.360
Bob Dylan lyric, okay? And then Old Crow Medicine

01:03:18.360 --> 01:03:21.800
Show does it in like 2004, 2005, and it becomes

01:03:21.800 --> 01:03:25.039
like a bluegrass hit. And then Darius Rucker,

01:03:25.280 --> 01:03:28.599
I think. It's like an anthem now. It's now, it's

01:03:28.599 --> 01:03:33.400
like a, but it, you could say that it's a Bob

01:03:33.400 --> 01:03:37.679
Dylan song. Yeah. And it's not necessarily because

01:03:37.679 --> 01:03:42.019
he didn't finish it. And they altered it. But

01:03:42.019 --> 01:03:46.460
I don't know. You get what I mean? At what point

01:03:46.460 --> 01:03:49.099
does it stop being a Bob Dylan song and start

01:03:49.099 --> 01:03:51.679
being an Old Crow? You know what I mean? But

01:03:51.679 --> 01:03:55.119
here's the real question. Is Darius Rucker covering

01:03:55.119 --> 01:03:57.119
Old Crow Medicine Show or is he covering Bob

01:03:57.119 --> 01:04:00.260
Dylan? Yeah. You want to get into splitting hairs

01:04:00.260 --> 01:04:02.260
about that kind of stuff. I'm reading a book

01:04:02.260 --> 01:04:07.760
about. the origins and the history of St. James

01:04:07.760 --> 01:04:12.920
Infirmary. That song is, it threads its way through

01:04:12.920 --> 01:04:18.320
all of the traditions in this country. And there's

01:04:18.320 --> 01:04:22.199
some threads that go back to the British Isles.

01:04:22.880 --> 01:04:28.159
It's pretty wild to think about. Yeah. We could

01:04:28.159 --> 01:04:30.880
be sitting back a couple hundred years ago talking

01:04:30.880 --> 01:04:34.400
about another song that is now, Falling into

01:04:34.400 --> 01:04:36.659
public domain because nobody even really knows

01:04:36.659 --> 01:04:39.940
where it came from. I mean, maybe just our record

01:04:39.940 --> 01:04:42.000
keeping is better. Our record keeping is way

01:04:42.000 --> 01:04:46.860
better. But the amount of time between what was...

01:04:46.860 --> 01:04:49.920
Because traditional blues songs were considered

01:04:49.920 --> 01:04:53.780
traditional blues songs in the 80s too. At what

01:04:53.780 --> 01:04:56.539
point were they... But back then they didn't

01:04:56.539 --> 01:04:58.500
have as good a record keeping. We know who wrote

01:04:58.500 --> 01:05:02.440
all the 70s and 80s rock classics. But they're

01:05:02.440 --> 01:05:05.039
becoming traditional, like culturally speaking,

01:05:05.179 --> 01:05:07.920
they're becoming the traditional songs. You can

01:05:07.920 --> 01:05:12.840
look at Ma Rainey's entire discography and you

01:05:12.840 --> 01:05:17.320
know exactly who wrote what. Right. She was really

01:05:17.320 --> 01:05:21.260
a pop singer. When she started out, she probably

01:05:21.260 --> 01:05:23.840
would not have considered herself a blues singer.

01:05:23.960 --> 01:05:28.199
She was really a pop superstar. But if you go

01:05:28.199 --> 01:05:30.519
back and think about the Lomax recordings or

01:05:30.519 --> 01:05:32.840
something like that, though, like he didn't even,

01:05:32.880 --> 01:05:34.639
sometimes he was able to figure out who wrote

01:05:34.639 --> 01:05:37.000
the songs, but sometimes. Or they'll say, yeah,

01:05:37.000 --> 01:05:39.480
I learned this from my uncle and he learned it

01:05:39.480 --> 01:05:42.920
from some guy he was in jail with. Exactly. Yeah.

01:05:43.300 --> 01:05:46.679
The folk tradition. And where I just think like

01:05:46.679 --> 01:05:50.880
the avenues for that have changed. Yeah. Carrie,

01:05:50.960 --> 01:05:54.659
it's been awesome talking to you. Is there, first

01:05:54.659 --> 01:05:57.150
of all. The last question I really want to ask

01:05:57.150 --> 01:06:01.230
you is, like, where do you see your role and

01:06:01.230 --> 01:06:05.130
the role of a venue like yours in times like

01:06:05.130 --> 01:06:10.789
these where people feel very scared of what's

01:06:10.789 --> 01:06:15.469
going on in the world, feel like some people

01:06:15.469 --> 01:06:18.750
feel like the end is near? And I don't mean to

01:06:18.750 --> 01:06:20.989
be dramatic, but even, and I don't even necessarily

01:06:20.989 --> 01:06:23.960
mean, like, the apocalypse, but, like, Our current

01:06:23.960 --> 01:06:27.500
way of life seems like it's in danger. Yeah,

01:06:27.539 --> 01:06:32.719
we're definitely at a critical moment right here.

01:06:33.320 --> 01:06:35.539
I feel like you guys have always been a safe

01:06:35.539 --> 01:06:38.719
haven, though. How do you feel about that? And

01:06:38.719 --> 01:06:41.679
how do you feel about music's role in that, creating

01:06:41.679 --> 01:06:46.619
a safe haven for people? One of the most comforting

01:06:46.619 --> 01:06:52.010
times for me is when I... When there's an old

01:06:52.010 --> 01:06:54.269
-time jam going on, I go back to the old times,

01:06:54.369 --> 01:06:57.150
okay? There's an old -time jam that meets there

01:06:57.150 --> 01:07:03.489
twice a month, or a jug band jam, and there's

01:07:03.489 --> 01:07:07.369
maybe one or two people who call, or they go

01:07:07.369 --> 01:07:09.610
around in a circle and they take turns calling

01:07:09.610 --> 01:07:12.309
which tune they're going to do. That's usually

01:07:12.309 --> 01:07:16.550
the way they do it. And the act of sharing agency.

01:07:17.659 --> 01:07:21.719
Of what's going to happen next is a really important

01:07:21.719 --> 01:07:25.679
thing to me. And I think when people come in

01:07:25.679 --> 01:07:28.599
the room and they see that, it changes their

01:07:28.599 --> 01:07:33.920
whole perspective. It doesn't just make their

01:07:33.920 --> 01:07:37.079
day better, I think it makes life better. And

01:07:37.079 --> 01:07:40.579
that's the one thing, if I had to give up everything

01:07:40.579 --> 01:07:44.239
else, I would want to keep that. Yeah. Is there

01:07:44.239 --> 01:07:45.739
anything else you want to mention before we...

01:07:45.980 --> 01:07:48.699
Before we wrap this up. I feel like we've talked

01:07:48.699 --> 01:07:52.239
about a lot of different stuff. I also, I don't

01:07:52.239 --> 01:07:56.440
want you to. We've gone around the world. Yeah.

01:07:57.139 --> 01:08:00.639
Wow. I appreciate. I didn't know what to expect.

01:08:00.780 --> 01:08:05.019
I appreciate you asking me to do this. Like I

01:08:05.019 --> 01:08:06.699
said, last time I did anything like this was

01:08:06.699 --> 01:08:08.940
on, it was actually a radio. I think it was an

01:08:08.940 --> 01:08:13.440
actual live radio show. Radio, for those of you

01:08:13.440 --> 01:08:17.960
who don't remember. Oh, I do want to give a lot

01:08:17.960 --> 01:08:21.180
of appreciation to WBFS. I think that's one of

01:08:21.180 --> 01:08:24.680
the coolest things about our community. And they

01:08:24.680 --> 01:08:28.520
do play a lot of stuff that's not from here,

01:08:28.560 --> 01:08:32.100
but they play a lot of local music, and they

01:08:32.100 --> 01:08:34.979
are part of the community. That's the only radio

01:08:34.979 --> 01:08:38.960
station I listen to. Oh, wow. Yeah, that's it.

01:08:39.980 --> 01:08:42.760
Otherwise, I'm streaming stuff. But if I'm listening

01:08:42.760 --> 01:08:46.539
to the radio, it is locked on 89 .7 WVFS. All

01:08:46.539 --> 01:08:50.159
right. College Radio is where it's at, y 'all.

01:08:50.239 --> 01:08:52.239
So if you have a local college radio station,

01:08:52.579 --> 01:08:54.960
support it. If you're in Tallahassee, make sure

01:08:54.960 --> 01:08:57.640
you support WVFS. Make sure you support the Blue

01:08:57.640 --> 01:09:01.180
Tavern. Go see some live music. I'll have a link

01:09:01.180 --> 01:09:04.140
to their calendars and everything in the description

01:09:04.140 --> 01:09:07.020
of this episode. Anything else you want to say?

01:09:07.199 --> 01:09:11.609
All right. I feel like in the last few years,

01:09:11.729 --> 01:09:15.729
I felt a lot better about where we live. And

01:09:15.729 --> 01:09:20.489
I hear a lot of people saying, talking, everybody

01:09:20.489 --> 01:09:22.850
talks smack about where they live. Yeah, the

01:09:22.850 --> 01:09:24.869
grass is always greener. Yeah, yeah, I hate this

01:09:24.869 --> 01:09:27.590
town. There's nothing to do. But I feel like

01:09:27.590 --> 01:09:30.529
it doesn't really matter. There's always something

01:09:30.529 --> 01:09:34.109
to do. I don't mean to sound like there's a platitude.

01:09:34.539 --> 01:09:36.579
There's always something to do. You just have

01:09:36.579 --> 01:09:39.100
to look for it. And sometimes you have to look

01:09:39.100 --> 01:09:44.060
a little harder. If we were in Atlanta, it would

01:09:44.060 --> 01:09:47.039
be different. Then you run into the problem of,

01:09:47.079 --> 01:09:49.479
I don't know what I want to do. Because there's

01:09:49.479 --> 01:09:50.899
too many choices. I don't know how far I want

01:09:50.899 --> 01:09:54.600
to go. How much money do I want to spend? But

01:09:54.600 --> 01:09:57.539
I feel like in the last few years, there's been

01:09:57.539 --> 01:10:02.119
a lot of grasping language and activity behavior

01:10:02.119 --> 01:10:06.109
about, We need to put ourselves on the map. We

01:10:06.109 --> 01:10:10.810
don't feel like we get any respect as a town,

01:10:10.850 --> 01:10:15.529
as a location. And I feel like, fuck that. Who

01:10:15.529 --> 01:10:18.210
cares? My feeling about that is... Let's just

01:10:18.210 --> 01:10:20.770
keep doing what we're doing and enjoy where we're

01:10:20.770 --> 01:10:24.430
at and enjoy being with each other. And it's

01:10:24.430 --> 01:10:26.250
kind of like the law of attraction. If you're

01:10:26.250 --> 01:10:29.550
trying too hard... then that pushes people away.

01:10:29.829 --> 01:10:33.930
Yeah, yeah. The developers love it. They'll come

01:10:33.930 --> 01:10:37.069
in and capitalize on that dissatisfaction all

01:10:37.069 --> 01:10:38.890
day long. And they sure have been. And they have

01:10:38.890 --> 01:10:41.829
been. Yeah. They have been. My philosophy is

01:10:41.829 --> 01:10:44.350
if you're unsatisfied with what's going on in

01:10:44.350 --> 01:10:47.489
your town, then give them something to talk about.

01:10:47.909 --> 01:10:51.010
Do something. Do something. Yeah. Okay, so this

01:10:51.010 --> 01:10:54.600
is the last thing I'll say. Next Tuesday. not

01:10:54.600 --> 01:10:56.399
next Tuesday. This will probably have already,

01:10:56.500 --> 01:10:58.399
this probably won't be. Oh yeah. Okay. That's

01:10:58.399 --> 01:11:00.340
right. That's right. Nevermind. But, but what

01:11:00.340 --> 01:11:03.159
I will, what I will do, Carrie, I will make sure

01:11:03.159 --> 01:11:05.140
like I reach out to you like the week that this

01:11:05.140 --> 01:11:07.060
is actually coming out. And then in my intros,

01:11:07.060 --> 01:11:09.859
I'll talk about stuff that's going on and, and,

01:11:09.939 --> 01:11:12.220
but there'll also be a link to your calendar

01:11:12.220 --> 01:11:14.640
in the description of this episode. So whenever

01:11:14.640 --> 01:11:17.560
you listen to this, whether it's the week it

01:11:17.560 --> 01:11:20.479
comes out or a year later, it'll take you to

01:11:20.479 --> 01:11:26.060
the current. and everything like that. But I

01:11:26.060 --> 01:11:29.000
can tell you're excited about this show. So tell

01:11:29.000 --> 01:11:31.399
us about this show that already happened. It's

01:11:31.399 --> 01:11:34.500
not a show. It's a parade. It's a Mardi Gras

01:11:34.500 --> 01:11:38.340
parade and party out and back. And this will

01:11:38.340 --> 01:11:42.039
be our fifth consecutive one. So, hey, come next

01:11:42.039 --> 01:11:47.170
year. But on Carnival Day, on Fat Tuesday, every

01:11:47.170 --> 01:11:49.670
year we have a parade, and Job Goldberg and the

01:11:49.670 --> 01:11:52.090
function play outside. It's a New Orleans -style

01:11:52.090 --> 01:11:55.189
brass band, and it's big fun. I was there, I

01:11:55.189 --> 01:11:59.489
think, two years ago. Okay, yeah. You want to

01:11:59.489 --> 01:12:01.789
talk for a minute about how that started? Oh,

01:12:01.850 --> 01:12:05.770
it started the first year I was the owner. I

01:12:05.770 --> 01:12:07.250
said, we've got to do this. We've got to make

01:12:07.250 --> 01:12:12.670
a parade because everybody is despondent. We

01:12:12.670 --> 01:12:18.989
were still dealing with it. No, 2022. The spring

01:12:18.989 --> 01:12:22.149
of 22. So people were still... The next trauma

01:12:22.149 --> 01:12:23.770
that the country went through. Yeah, the next

01:12:23.770 --> 01:12:28.270
thing. This is like post -quarantine. And so

01:12:28.270 --> 01:12:31.250
I was like, let's get out here and do a parade.

01:12:31.390 --> 01:12:34.350
And it was very small, but then the next year

01:12:34.350 --> 01:12:37.069
it was a little bigger and a little bigger. Now

01:12:37.069 --> 01:12:40.289
we got... The Nini Fest people are coming with

01:12:40.289 --> 01:12:43.340
some puppets. Oh, cool. Big head puppets. Nice.

01:12:43.520 --> 01:12:46.060
Yeah, we'll have a good time. Thank you so much

01:12:46.060 --> 01:12:47.579
for being here, Carrie. Thank you. We'll have

01:12:47.579 --> 01:12:49.699
everything in the description. Make sure you

01:12:49.699 --> 01:12:53.119
go check out the Blue Tavern. Thanks for being

01:12:53.119 --> 01:12:56.739
here. Thank you. That was my interview with Carrie

01:12:56.739 --> 01:12:58.920
Hamby. I really enjoyed having her on the show.

01:12:59.539 --> 01:13:03.479
Go check out the Blue Tavern. You will not regret

01:13:03.479 --> 01:13:07.680
it. It's a really cool spot. And who knows, maybe

01:13:07.680 --> 01:13:09.899
someone like George Clinton will randomly show

01:13:09.899 --> 01:13:12.489
up. They've got some really cool shows coming

01:13:12.489 --> 01:13:15.390
up. Reverend Robert and John Ford are playing

01:13:15.390 --> 01:13:18.989
this Saturday night at the Blue Tavern. It's

01:13:18.989 --> 01:13:21.970
like pre -war blues. It should be really cool.

01:13:23.109 --> 01:13:26.270
Klezmer Local 42, they're a band from Athens,

01:13:26.409 --> 01:13:29.909
Georgia. They're playing on Thursday, March 19th.

01:13:29.989 --> 01:13:31.970
I actually ran into one of the guys outside of

01:13:31.970 --> 01:13:34.510
the 40 Watt a couple weeks ago. Super nice guy.

01:13:34.810 --> 01:13:37.010
Seems like a really cool band. I'm going to go

01:13:37.010 --> 01:13:41.439
check them out for sure. And then, you know,

01:13:41.439 --> 01:13:46.100
as always, the last Tuesday of every month, you

01:13:46.100 --> 01:13:48.420
got Belmont and Jones featuring Kerry that we

01:13:48.420 --> 01:13:51.779
talked to today. So go check that out. I'll see

01:13:51.779 --> 01:13:55.979
y 'all at P -Funk Fest, April 11th. See you next

01:13:55.979 --> 01:13:57.779
week on here. Take care.